Date   

Re: NVDA and unzip utility

Monte Single
 

I have been using 7 zip since the last mellium. It is mpart of my context menu and it works so well for me. And it is free!!
Rock on!!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account
Sent: February-05-17 3:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and unzip utility

I agree on Yahoo, I think they are simply incompetent rather than anything else. I always use 7zip, but use the zip part for compatibility.
There used to be a small utility around that could turn any zip into a self extractor, does anyone know if this is still about, my searches don't seem to point to anything useful to windows users.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2017 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and unzip utility


I agree, before, I used pk zip in dos then later on winzip.
When it became payed, bits became inaccessible.
I got round this with a crack and that worked but when they switched to
ribbons I decided that instead of cracking every year I was never going to
spend the 30 bucks a year to keep it updated I switched to 7zip.
the only disadvantage to 7z I can see is that it can only create 7z and
zip archives winzip can do more it can extract almost everything.
The other disadvantage is while creating or extracting files it will use
all your processer power and memmory but I have hardly had a 7z file ever
get corrupted and they are quite small.
7zip is opensource and multiplatform with addons and also running of the
lzma2 sdk, I do know lzma is a power compression lib, I used it in dos so
its been round a while now.
I use the shell mode mostly but it works and all computers I administrate
have it as one of their utilities.
Its also a lot faster than any other zipping program I have ever used in
my life.
To its credit bar the usual google spyware it installs its not changed and
I am in 2 minds about google spyware with the amount of service I get.
I'd gladly give my information to someone that gives me so much, I mean
even my mail is fast and secure world wide access.
True the nsa can probably read it but so what I have nothing to hide.
The worse spyware to get on your system is yahoo and thats only because
they have so many security breaches they just don't seem to give a damn.



On 5/02/2017 6:05 a.m., Dejan Ristic wrote:
I use 7ZIP, and I seem to be satisfied with it.



Here is the link to it:

http://www.7-zip.org/
On 2/4/2017 2:56 PM, Pascal Lambert wrote:
Hi,
Please, is there an unzip utility that works well with NVDA? WinRAR
which I am using is not very accessible.
Many thanks
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 2:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation

hi.
only set in voice settings Punctuation/symbol level: none good lock
and God bless you!

On 2/4/17, Dennis L <dennisl1982@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 11:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation



What if you want to get to the number to review it? It is easier to
just move forward once than to hear the whole thing spoken, then move
to the end or to the next word and move back. it's one command
instead of two or three.

Be careful what you wish for.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rob <mailto:captinlogic@gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 7:38 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation



When using the prev/next word hotkeys (numpad 4 and 6) it would be
nice if it did not stop at punctuation, but instead continued on to
the prev/next word.
Example:
Size on disk: 13.65 GB.
If you read that with the next word key, numpad six, you hear:
Size on disk colon 13 dot 65 gb
I want to hear
Size on disk 13.65 gb
where the numpad keys don't stop on the punctuation, but continue on
to the next word







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org






.



.


3.5 headphone jacks

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Apologies for this being slightly off topic, but I thought I'd mention this as it seems quite common here for there to be threads about my phones don't work or similar.
While looking at various pieces of equipment with these sockets it proved to me how basically rubbish these plugs and sockets are. On one machine here even pushing the jack in hard seemed to result in very poor speech or indeed any sound that should be equally on both channels. this turned out to be that the body of the phones plug hit the case of the computer before it was pushed fully home. Sometimes also even small differences in diameter mean that the speakers do not always get cut off by the internal switch, or that the phones (or external speakers) crackle and mess about due to dirt on the plug or socket. I think in these sort of cases where cleaning or another set of speakers or phones still act up, the only option on a computer is to buy an el cheapo usb pair of phones or sound box as has been mentioned earlier. They often only cost under 10 quid in the UK from many many stores and usually load their own software drivers so plugging them and unplugging them moves the sound from the speakers driving sound card to the usb ones.
Of course on other devices one cannot do this and have to rely on the socket and plug being usable and not dirty.
This has been what I have found. Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: NVDA and unzip utility

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I agree on Yahoo, I think they are simply incompetent rather than anything else. I always use 7zip, but use the zip part for compatibility.
There used to be a small utility around that could turn any zip into a self extractor, does anyone know if this is still about, my searches don't seem to point to anything useful to windows users.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2017 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and unzip utility


I agree, before, I used pk zip in dos then later on winzip.
When it became payed, bits became inaccessible.
I got round this with a crack and that worked but when they switched to ribbons I decided that instead of cracking every year I was never going to spend the 30 bucks a year to keep it updated I switched to 7zip.
the only disadvantage to 7z I can see is that it can only create 7z and zip archives winzip can do more it can extract almost everything.
The other disadvantage is while creating or extracting files it will use all your processer power and memmory but I have hardly had a 7z file ever get corrupted and they are quite small.
7zip is opensource and multiplatform with addons and also running of the lzma2 sdk, I do know lzma is a power compression lib, I used it in dos so its been round a while now.
I use the shell mode mostly but it works and all computers I administrate have it as one of their utilities.
Its also a lot faster than any other zipping program I have ever used in my life.
To its credit bar the usual google spyware it installs its not changed and I am in 2 minds about google spyware with the amount of service I get.
I'd gladly give my information to someone that gives me so much, I mean even my mail is fast and secure world wide access.
True the nsa can probably read it but so what I have nothing to hide.
The worse spyware to get on your system is yahoo and thats only because they have so many security breaches they just don't seem to give a damn.



On 5/02/2017 6:05 a.m., Dejan Ristic wrote:
I use 7ZIP, and I seem to be satisfied with it.



Here is the link to it:

http://www.7-zip.org/
On 2/4/2017 2:56 PM, Pascal Lambert wrote:
Hi,
Please, is there an unzip utility that works well with NVDA? WinRAR
which I am using is not very accessible.
Many thanks
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 2:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation

hi.
only set in voice settings Punctuation/symbol level: none good lock
and God bless you!

On 2/4/17, Dennis L <dennisl1982@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 11:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation



What if you want to get to the number to review it? It is easier to
just move forward once than to hear the whole thing spoken, then move
to the end or to the next word and move back. it's one command
instead of two or three.

Be careful what you wish for.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rob <mailto:captinlogic@gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 7:38 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation



When using the prev/next word hotkeys (numpad 4 and 6) it would be
nice if it did not stop at punctuation, but instead continued on to
the prev/next word.
Example:
Size on disk: 13.65 GB.
If you read that with the next word key, numpad six, you hear:
Size on disk colon 13 dot 65 gb
I want to hear
Size on disk 13.65 gb
where the numpad keys don't stop on the punctuation, but continue on
to the next word







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org






.



.


Re: controlling the mouse?

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


I totally agree with you on this one.


My self as well tthe more tools in your kit you can use the better.


Just for a quick example a touch device like a smart phone, tablet with the screen reader on the device telling me where i move my fingers etc and having stuff read under it is another tool in the tool box.


The end of the day your finger is the mouse and where you touch is where the focus goes to. I have spoken to quite a few blind people who have said what am i going to do when my old tacktile phone dies. You either do not get another one or you learn some thing new like using the new touch phones with speech or magnification.


But even though we are talking about a computer and the physical mouse or a touch mouse it can get to areas that might not be supported by a keyboard.


There is a saying do not knock it before you try it then make up your mind.

But do not knock it on the head by some one else saying it does not work for me they might not have the time to learn a new trick or simpley do not even want to go there.


Gene nz

.




On 5/02/2017 2:38 PM, David Moore wrote:

I keep saying that the more tools you have at your disposal, the more you can do. Let us say, on the job, that you can do 90 percent of what you need to do with key commands. I have used the mouse to do the other ten percent. Ten percent on the job is a lot. If the blind keep being told that they do not need the mouse at all, they will not know that they can do certain tasks on the job ten percent of the time, and they might not be able to do their job. The mouse does have a crutial use in cases where one's job depends on it. Golden Cursor makes it so easy to work with the mouse, that someone might be able to do their job. This is how important the Golden Cursor is. This is why I am so passionate about it. A blind person might be able to use the mouse even 2 percent that will allow them to keep their job. That is important. The mouse pointer can access controls that object review will never find on the screen. Pointing and clicking with the touch pad or mouse, can enable me to access web sites that I could not access any other way. I am not saying that one way is better than another way. We will indeed use key commands 90 percent of the time. However, in my personal and work life, being able to control the mouse and point and clicked has gotten me out of jams 10 percent of the time. Why don't people want every tool in their tool box they can have, just in case they might need that tool 1 percent of the time. That 1 percent might make a difference if you can do something at work or not. I am just saying that it is good if you can include the mouse in your tool box, in case you might need it at a crucial time. The Golden cursor is the best way that I have been able to find where you can use the mouse pretty good. The Golden Cursor allows a windows user to use the mouse pretty good. Try it for yourself, before you make a judgement. Even JAWS added the feature to be able to move the mouse and hear what is under the mouse. Sometimes, maybe at work, that is the only way you might be able to access something so you can keep your job. Therefore, it is worth keeping that mouse option hidden in your tool box, and you might be using it more than you think if you need to access a very important control on a page, your job might depend on it.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 11:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

You are assuming that review modes see everything the mouse sees.  Unless you have done enough comparison to know that is an unsupported assumption.  I don't assume that every thing in every program that can be moved to with a mouse can be moved to using various review modes.  While I don't need to use a mouse to use the programs I use and review modes allow me access to what I want, I have no basis to assume that I won't find a program where I can see things with a mouse I can't otherwise.  Also, some links on the Internet require a mouse to activate them.  I haven't played with a mouse on a web site but having a mouse may make working with this or that site to do something possible, if cumbersome.

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 7:55 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I have no problem using the key navigation. I see no need for a mouse.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of john s
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 5:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I don't mind moving the mouse pointer when I have to and I use Window Eyes mouse keys to do so.  Otherwise, I don't care where something is on the screen as long as I can get to it, first with keystrokes and then with mouse keys.


earlier, David Moore, wrote:

Hi all,
There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

 
 
On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Travis Siegel

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

 

Gene

 

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 

 

If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 

 

I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think

we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move

the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

> pixels.

--

All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;

                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 


 

John

 


-- 
<b>Check out the new location of my accessibility central website for NVDA tutorials, NVDA road tested programs, and other eyesight related topics.
http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/ If you would like to keep up to date with whats being updated on our website, you can also follow us on facebook by visiting
the following link https://en-gb.facebook.com/people/AccessibilityCentral-Net/100009727930216
Also, check out which New Zealand libraries have the NVDA screen reader available by visiting the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries


Re: controlling the mouse?

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, David,

 

I remember one time I had trouble getting into a program with keyboard commands so I picked up the mouse and slowly brought it to where the program was. Then I hit the left mouse button and bingo! There was the program. I think it was outlook express at that time. No, I take that back. It was microsoft word. At that time I had word 2003. You're right. You don't really have to have sight in order to learn to use the mouse when needed.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 6:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Hi,

I find the golden cursor the most exciting NVDA add on, and here is exactly why. First of all, You can press a key command, and Golden cursor will tell you in pixels where the mouse pointer is on the screen. Left side is 0 in the X direction, and top is 0 in the y direction of the pointer. Golden Cursor gives you the pointer position in the X, first, then the Y. So, if Golden cursor says 34 748, then you know that the pointer is only 34 pixels from the left of the screen, and it is all of the way at the bottom of the screen 748 pixels from the top. Now, the default of the computer screen with win10 is: 1366 pixels from left to right, and 768 pixels from top to bottom. Now, the next best thing about the Golden cursor, is that you can save a mouse pointer position so that the pointer will go right to that spot. It is like setting a book mark for the mouse pointer. You just press the command, and put in the X number, and Y number, altogether without a space, and then space and describe what that position is,like a very important button in an app, for example. From now on, you can press a command that gives you a list of all saved positions, and you can just enter on the one you want, and the mouse pointer goes right to that spot. That is very powerful. Also, the Golden cursor add on allows you to move the mouse pointer with your arrow keys by so many pixels each time you press an arrow key. For example, you can set Golden cursor to move ten pixels to the right each time you press the right arrow. You just hold down the windows+NVDA as you press the arrow keys. That is very powerful, because you can move the pointer completely straight in a line up, down, right, or left. I have memorized many pixel positions of things on the computer screen because of Golden cursor. For example, the position of the start button is 24 pixels to the left, and 748 pixels to the bottom. So, in other words, the start button is in the very bottom left hand corner of the screen. The desktop icons, are in the top left half of the screen. You can press windows+NVDA+P to hear the pposition of the pointer by routing it to the review cursor on any object. Now, the review cursor moves with the system carrot, so you can simply go to a desktop icon, and press Windows+NVDA+P on any desktop icon, and hear the pixel position of that icon. You can then save that position, and then, you can later open the list of saved positions and enter on that position, and mouse pointer will go right there. You can do this on the desktop with key commands, I know. But, what about places in programs where you cannot access a control any other way except for the mouse? This is where the golden cursor becomes the most important add on, I believe. Now, you can save that position with Golden cursor. Then, you can go to that position from now on, without sighted help even if you are totally blind. That is how powerful the Golden cursor is. There is even more it does. Now, with NVDA itself, without the Golden cursor add on, you can still do a lot with the mouse. If you go to the preferences menu and go to the mouse settings, you can Turn on play beeps as you move the mouse pointer, either with a mouse, or on your mouse pad on a laptop. For example, as I move my finger over my touch pad on my laptop, with stereo head phones on, as I move the mouse pointer left, the sound comes out of the left head phone. Moving it to the right does the opposite. If I move the pointer up, the tone gets higher in pitch. Moving it down, makes the tones go down in pitch. So, for example, If I hear a low pitch coming more from the right head phone, that means that the pointer is at the bottom of the screen more to the right side of the screen. That can tell you a lot right there. Also, NVDA tells you the text that the pointer is moving over. For example, if I am moving my finger, and I hear News app, I can click my touch pad, just like a sighted person would, to open the News App. Now, with the Golden cursor, I have the position of the pointer saved where my News App is, so I can move the pointer right there, click just like a sighted person, and the news app opens, and I can read the news with the mouse pointer. I can access many apps with the Golden cursor add on and moving the mouse pointer around the app. I hope that there are blind users that are interested in just how much you can do with the mouse, even if you are totally blind. I want to get people excited about this. The mouse is not just for the sighted. There are places in an app at work that only the mouse pointer can get to, and it is possible to use Golden Cursor to save the pointer position for that spot, and move the pointer to that spot, even if you are totally blind. I would like to talk to the developer of the Golden cursor about keeping it up and going, because I use it all the time, to access places in apps that cannot be accessed any other way.

I hope this helps some of your and everyone's questions about this topic The mouse pointer can find very important things on the screen that key commands cannot find. The Golden cursor allows very independent use of the mouse. Very powerful.

You can download and install Golden cursor at:

www.addons.nvda-project..org

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Angelo Sonnesso
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 9:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

What is the golden cursor, and where do you get it?

 

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2017 8:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Hi,

Because of people like you, I am so passionate about the Golden Cursor. Nobody seems to know about it, and I cannot get information to contact the developer. However, The Golden Cursor makes it so easy to use point and click, that people could do a job where the mouse is needed even 5 percent of the time. Key commands rule for the blind, but I am trying to get people to know that the Golden Cursor could get people out of a jam at least 10 percent on the job. Please everyone, email me off line at:

Jesusloves1966@...

I will show you all that Golden cursor can do, and why we should be talking about this add on a lot. As you read, if you are on the job, and need to access the screen with the mouse, you can save that position in Golden cursor, and you can go right to that spot over and over to do your job. I am using the Golden Cursor litterly to do my job. This is what I want people to know. The Golden cursor is so over-looked. It gives people much better access concerning using the mouse, just being able to save mouse positions on the screen, and going right back to them. I run into situations everyday where Golden Cursor enables me to do something that I would need sighted help to do. Key commands and object navigation will not work 100 percent of the time, so using the Golden Cursor allows me to keep my job! This is why I want to get people's attention about this. Please give it a try.

Just go to the add on page and install Golden Cursor, and read the little bit of how to use it. You just will not believe what you can do with using the mouse when and if you have to.

I will do a diminstration, and I will put the recording on this site, and the NVDA add on sight, because people must know what the Golden Cursor can do. It could litterly allow someone to do many jobs that they could not do without it.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Lenron
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 9:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I love being able to use the mouse for certain things, it's awesome. I

think as long as we don't put ourselves in a certain box we will be

fine. I reall need to try this golden curser

 

On 2/3/17, Dennis L <dennisl1982@...> wrote:

> I have no problem using the key navigation. I see no need for a mouse.

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of john s

> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 5:36 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I don't mind moving the mouse pointer when I have to and I use Window Eyes

> mouse keys to do so.  Otherwise, I don't care where something is on the

> screen as long as I can get to it, first with keystrokes and then with

> mouse

> keys.

> earlier, David Moore, wrote:

> Hi all,

> There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to

> be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using

> navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object

> review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when

> I

> can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse

> pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I

> can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to

> the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites

> me

> when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a

> sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer

> and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive

> technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need

> to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited

> about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor

> for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to

> just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do

> something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you

> feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as

> the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted

> friends

> can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a

> third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is

> to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be

> researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made

> by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person,

> not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get

> excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move

> the

> mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have

> a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use

> key

> commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your

> mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes

> sense.

> I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw

> then.

> I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a

> difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be

> happy.

> Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference.

> I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen

> if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I

> can

> hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my

> mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want

> to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel

> like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just

> memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of

> what

> those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone.

> I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the

> icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you

> think

> about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job

> done. Take care, guys,

> David Moore

> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for

> Windows

> 10

> From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse

> to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click

> command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel <mailto:tsiegel@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key

> would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that

> command

> performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other

> cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the

> shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's

> all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and

> it

> clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that

> information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all,

> this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key

> combination.

> On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

> I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such

> commands are given.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands

> may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the

> move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse

> command is numpad slash.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel <mailto:tsiegel@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This

> will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I

> believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual

> focus movement.

> On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

> In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a

> phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.

> That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

> Gene

> There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using

> object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being

> described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done

> with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds

> something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as

> I

> understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to

> something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation

> and

> screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users

> and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

> If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move

> the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move

> the

> mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing

> so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the

> command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the

> object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return

> point.

> I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing

> so

> is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use

> it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object

> navigation and screen review to advantage.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I

> think

> we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to

> move

> the mouse pointer around.

> The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

> object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

> Antony.

> On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

>> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

>> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

>> pixels.

> --

> All generalisations are inaccurate.

>                                                    Please reply to the

> list;

>                                                          please *don't* CC

> me.

> John

 

 

--

Lenron Brown

Cell: 985-271-2832

Skype: ron.brown762

 

 

 

 


Re: controlling the mouse?

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Shaun,

There were times when I had to use the mouse here at home. I was trying to get into a program but couldn't do it with just keyboard commands but when I picked up the mouse, I found the program and hit the left click button--and that was way before golden cursor came out.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 6:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

I semi agree but not quite.
The blind shouldn't need to use the mouse unless a program they use is rwitten poorly access wise or spaciffically needs the mouse.
If its in a business sure I can see a reason but for a standard home user its not really needed.
Mice are sighted things not blind things.
A trackpad is probably more in the realms of a thing all can use.



On 5/02/2017 2:38 p.m., David Moore wrote:
I keep saying that the more tools you have at your disposal, the more you can do. Let us say, on the job, that you can do 90 percent of what you need to do with key commands. I have used the mouse to do the other ten percent. Ten percent on the job is a lot. If the blind keep being told that they do not need the mouse at all, they will not know that they can do certain tasks on the job ten percent of the time, and they might not be able to do their job. The mouse does have a crutial use in cases where one's job depends on it. Golden Cursor makes it so easy to work with the mouse, that someone might be able to do their job. This is how important the Golden Cursor is. This is why I am so passionate about it. A blind person might be able to use the mouse even 2 percent that will allow them to keep their job. That is important. The mouse pointer can access controls that object review will never find on the screen. Pointing and clicking with the touch pad or mouse, can enable me to access web sites that I could not access any other way. I am not saying that one way is better than another way. We will indeed use key commands 90 percent of the time. However, in my personal and work life, being able to control the mouse and point and clicked has gotten me out of jams 10 percent of the time. Why don't people want every tool in their tool box they can have, just in case they might need that tool 1 percent of the time. That 1 percent might make a difference if you can do something at work or not. I am just saying that it is good if you can include the mouse in your tool box, in case you might need it at a crucial time. The Golden cursor is the best way that I have been able to find where you can use the mouse pretty good. The Golden Cursor allows a windows user to use the mouse pretty good. Try it for yourself, before you make a judgement. Even JAWS added the feature to be able to move the mouse and hear what is under the mouse. Sometimes, maybe at work, that is the only way you might be able to access something so you can keep your job. Therefore, it is worth keeping that mouse option hidden in your tool box, and you might be using it more than you think if you need to access a very important control on a page, your job might depend on it.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 11:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

You are assuming that review modes see everything the mouse sees. Unless you have done enough comparison to know that is an unsupported assumption. I don't assume that every thing in every program that can be moved to with a mouse can be moved to using various review modes. While I don't need to use a mouse to use the programs I use and review modes allow me access to what I want, I have no basis to assume that I won't find a program where I can see things with a mouse I can't otherwise. Also, some links on the Internet require a mouse to activate them. I haven't played with a mouse on a web site but having a mouse may make working with this or that site to do something possible, if cumbersome.

Gene
------ Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 7:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

I have no problem using the key navigation. I see no need for a mouse.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
john s
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 5:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

I don't mind moving the mouse pointer when I have to and I use Window Eyes mouse keys to do so. Otherwise, I don't care where something is on the screen as long as I can get to it, first with keystrokes and then with mouse keys.


earlier, David Moore, wrote:
Hi all,
There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I
like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of
always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse
instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse
to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a
control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense
of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a
sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do
everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I
can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a
sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse
pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about
my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key
commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends,
to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a
reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just
to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to
get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would
if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I
want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving
the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really
relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third
of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is
to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be
researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been
made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a
research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe
that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because
you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it
really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is
on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the
visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual
person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my
sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50
now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a
difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be
happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a
visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is
on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and
Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on
the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter
what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I
am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn
better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a
bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those
commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone.
I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what
the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what
you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just
getting the job done. Take care, guys, David Moore Sent from Mail for
Windows 10

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

I didn't say that. I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor. I also said that the left click command is numpad slash. Just numpad slash by itself.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?


In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse. I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination. That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with. Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.



On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page. No such commands are given.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on? The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know. For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated. For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question. I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.


On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse. That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

Gene

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know. But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review. Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find. And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something. But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash. Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash. I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command. In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object. You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.

I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage. But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Antony Stone
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I
think we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of
having to move the mouse pointer around.
The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know
where an object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.
Antony.
On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:
I would find this mouse movement more exciting if the pointer would
move from object to object rather than by number of pixels.


Re: controlling the mouse?

 

I semi agree but not quite.
The blind shouldn't need to use the mouse unless a program they use is rwitten poorly access wise or spaciffically needs the mouse.
If its in a business sure I can see a reason but for a standard home user its not really needed.
Mice are sighted things not blind things.
A trackpad is probably more in the realms of a thing all can use.

On 5/02/2017 2:38 p.m., David Moore wrote:
I keep saying that the more tools you have at your disposal, the more you can do. Let us say, on the job, that you can do 90 percent of what you need to do with key commands. I have used the mouse to do the other ten percent. Ten percent on the job is a lot. If the blind keep being told that they do not need the mouse at all, they will not know that they can do certain tasks on the job ten percent of the time, and they might not be able to do their job. The mouse does have a crutial use in cases where one's job depends on it. Golden Cursor makes it so easy to work with the mouse, that someone might be able to do their job. This is how important the Golden Cursor is. This is why I am so passionate about it. A blind person might be able to use the mouse even 2 percent that will allow them to keep their job. That is important. The mouse pointer can access controls that object review will never find on the screen. Pointing and clicking with the touch pad or mouse, can enable me to access web sites that I could not access any other way. I am not saying that one way is better than another way. We will indeed use key commands 90 percent of the time. However, in my personal and work life, being able to control the mouse and point and clicked has gotten me out of jams 10 percent of the time. Why don't people want every tool in their tool box they can have, just in case they might need that tool 1 percent of the time. That 1 percent might make a difference if you can do something at work or not. I am just saying that it is good if you can include the mouse in your tool box, in case you might need it at a crucial time. The Golden cursor is the best way that I have been able to find where you can use the mouse pretty good. The Golden Cursor allows a windows user to use the mouse pretty good. Try it for yourself, before you make a judgement. Even JAWS added the feature to be able to move the mouse and hear what is under the mouse. Sometimes, maybe at work, that is the only way you might be able to access something so you can keep your job. Therefore, it is worth keeping that mouse option hidden in your tool box, and you might be using it more than you think if you need to access a very important control on a page, your job might depend on it.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 11:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

You are assuming that review modes see everything the mouse sees. Unless you have done enough comparison to know that is an unsupported assumption. I don't assume that every thing in every program that can be moved to with a mouse can be moved to using various review modes. While I don't need to use a mouse to use the programs I use and review modes allow me access to what I want, I have no basis to assume that I won't find a program where I can see things with a mouse I can't otherwise. Also, some links on the Internet require a mouse to activate them. I haven't played with a mouse on a web site but having a mouse may make working with this or that site to do something possible, if cumbersome.

Gene
------ Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 7:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

I have no problem using the key navigation. I see no need for a mouse.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of john s
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 5:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

I don't mind moving the mouse pointer when I have to and I use Window Eyes mouse keys to do so. Otherwise, I don't care where something is on the screen as long as I can get to it, first with keystrokes and then with mouse keys.


earlier, David Moore, wrote:
Hi all,
There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

I didn't say that. I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor. I also said that the left click command is numpad slash. Just numpad slash by itself.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?


In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse. I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination. That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with. Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.



On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page. No such commands are given.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on? The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know. For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated. For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question. I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.


On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse. That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

Gene

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know. But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review. Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find. And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something. But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash. Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash. I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command. In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object. You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.

I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage. But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Antony Stone
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.
The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.
Antony.
On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:
I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
pixels.


Re: controlling the mouse?

David Moore
 

Hi,

I find the golden cursor the most exciting NVDA add on, and here is exactly why. First of all, You can press a key command, and Golden cursor will tell you in pixels where the mouse pointer is on the screen. Left side is 0 in the X direction, and top is 0 in the y direction of the pointer. Golden Cursor gives you the pointer position in the X, first, then the Y. So, if Golden cursor says 34 748, then you know that the pointer is only 34 pixels from the left of the screen, and it is all of the way at the bottom of the screen 748 pixels from the top. Now, the default of the computer screen with win10 is: 1366 pixels from left to right, and 768 pixels from top to bottom. Now, the next best thing about the Golden cursor, is that you can save a mouse pointer position so that the pointer will go right to that spot. It is like setting a book mark for the mouse pointer. You just press the command, and put in the X number, and Y number, altogether without a space, and then space and describe what that position is,like a very important button in an app, for example. From now on, you can press a command that gives you a list of all saved positions, and you can just enter on the one you want, and the mouse pointer goes right to that spot. That is very powerful. Also, the Golden cursor add on allows you to move the mouse pointer with your arrow keys by so many pixels each time you press an arrow key. For example, you can set Golden cursor to move ten pixels to the right each time you press the right arrow. You just hold down the windows+NVDA as you press the arrow keys. That is very powerful, because you can move the pointer completely straight in a line up, down, right, or left. I have memorized many pixel positions of things on the computer screen because of Golden cursor. For example, the position of the start button is 24 pixels to the left, and 748 pixels to the bottom. So, in other words, the start button is in the very bottom left hand corner of the screen. The desktop icons, are in the top left half of the screen. You can press windows+NVDA+P to hear the pposition of the pointer by routing it to the review cursor on any object. Now, the review cursor moves with the system carrot, so you can simply go to a desktop icon, and press Windows+NVDA+P on any desktop icon, and hear the pixel position of that icon. You can then save that position, and then, you can later open the list of saved positions and enter on that position, and mouse pointer will go right there. You can do this on the desktop with key commands, I know. But, what about places in programs where you cannot access a control any other way except for the mouse? This is where the golden cursor becomes the most important add on, I believe. Now, you can save that position with Golden cursor. Then, you can go to that position from now on, without sighted help even if you are totally blind. That is how powerful the Golden cursor is. There is even more it does. Now, with NVDA itself, without the Golden cursor add on, you can still do a lot with the mouse. If you go to the preferences menu and go to the mouse settings, you can Turn on play beeps as you move the mouse pointer, either with a mouse, or on your mouse pad on a laptop. For example, as I move my finger over my touch pad on my laptop, with stereo head phones on, as I move the mouse pointer left, the sound comes out of the left head phone. Moving it to the right does the opposite. If I move the pointer up, the tone gets higher in pitch. Moving it down, makes the tones go down in pitch. So, for example, If I hear a low pitch coming more from the right head phone, that means that the pointer is at the bottom of the screen more to the right side of the screen. That can tell you a lot right there. Also, NVDA tells you the text that the pointer is moving over. For example, if I am moving my finger, and I hear News app, I can click my touch pad, just like a sighted person would, to open the News App. Now, with the Golden cursor, I have the position of the pointer saved where my News App is, so I can move the pointer right there, click just like a sighted person, and the news app opens, and I can read the news with the mouse pointer. I can access many apps with the Golden cursor add on and moving the mouse pointer around the app. I hope that there are blind users that are interested in just how much you can do with the mouse, even if you are totally blind. I want to get people excited about this. The mouse is not just for the sighted. There are places in an app at work that only the mouse pointer can get to, and it is possible to use Golden Cursor to save the pointer position for that spot, and move the pointer to that spot, even if you are totally blind. I would like to talk to the developer of the Golden cursor about keeping it up and going, because I use it all the time, to access places in apps that cannot be accessed any other way.

I hope this helps some of your and everyone's questions about this topic The mouse pointer can find very important things on the screen that key commands cannot find. The Golden cursor allows very independent use of the mouse. Very powerful.

You can download and install Golden cursor at:

www.addons.nvda-project..org

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Angelo Sonnesso
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 9:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

What is the golden cursor, and where do you get it?

 

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2017 8:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Hi,

Because of people like you, I am so passionate about the Golden Cursor. Nobody seems to know about it, and I cannot get information to contact the developer. However, The Golden Cursor makes it so easy to use point and click, that people could do a job where the mouse is needed even 5 percent of the time. Key commands rule for the blind, but I am trying to get people to know that the Golden Cursor could get people out of a jam at least 10 percent on the job. Please everyone, email me off line at:

Jesusloves1966@...

I will show you all that Golden cursor can do, and why we should be talking about this add on a lot. As you read, if you are on the job, and need to access the screen with the mouse, you can save that position in Golden cursor, and you can go right to that spot over and over to do your job. I am using the Golden Cursor litterly to do my job. This is what I want people to know. The Golden cursor is so over-looked. It gives people much better access concerning using the mouse, just being able to save mouse positions on the screen, and going right back to them. I run into situations everyday where Golden Cursor enables me to do something that I would need sighted help to do. Key commands and object navigation will not work 100 percent of the time, so using the Golden Cursor allows me to keep my job! This is why I want to get people's attention about this. Please give it a try.

Just go to the add on page and install Golden Cursor, and read the little bit of how to use it. You just will not believe what you can do with using the mouse when and if you have to.

I will do a diminstration, and I will put the recording on this site, and the NVDA add on sight, because people must know what the Golden Cursor can do. It could litterly allow someone to do many jobs that they could not do without it.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Lenron
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 9:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I love being able to use the mouse for certain things, it's awesome. I

think as long as we don't put ourselves in a certain box we will be

fine. I reall need to try this golden curser

 

On 2/3/17, Dennis L <dennisl1982@...> wrote:

> I have no problem using the key navigation. I see no need for a mouse.

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of john s

> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 5:36 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I don't mind moving the mouse pointer when I have to and I use Window Eyes

> mouse keys to do so.  Otherwise, I don't care where something is on the

> screen as long as I can get to it, first with keystrokes and then with

> mouse

> keys.

> earlier, David Moore, wrote:

> Hi all,

> There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to

> be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using

> navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object

> review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when

> I

> can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse

> pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I

> can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to

> the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites

> me

> when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a

> sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer

> and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive

> technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need

> to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited

> about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor

> for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to

> just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do

> something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you

> feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as

> the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted

> friends

> can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a

> third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is

> to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be

> researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made

> by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person,

> not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get

> excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move

> the

> mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have

> a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use

> key

> commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your

> mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes

> sense.

> I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw

> then.

> I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a

> difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be

> happy.

> Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference.

> I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen

> if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I

> can

> hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my

> mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want

> to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel

> like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just

> memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of

> what

> those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone.

> I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the

> icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you

> think

> about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job

> done. Take care, guys,

> David Moore

> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for

> Windows

> 10

> From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse

> to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click

> command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel <mailto:tsiegel@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key

> would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that

> command

> performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other

> cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the

> shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's

> all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and

> it

> clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that

> information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all,

> this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key

> combination.

> On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

> I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such

> commands are given.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands

> may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the

> move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse

> command is numpad slash.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel <mailto:tsiegel@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This

> will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I

> believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual

> focus movement.

> On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

> In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a

> phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.

> That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

> Gene

> There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using

> object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being

> described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done

> with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds

> something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as

> I

> understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to

> something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation

> and

> screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users

> and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

> If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move

> the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move

> the

> mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing

> so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the

> command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the

> object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return

> point.

> I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing

> so

> is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use

> it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object

> navigation and screen review to advantage.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I

> think

> we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to

> move

> the mouse pointer around.

> The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

> object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

> Antony.

> On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

>> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

>> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

>> pixels.

> --

> All generalisations are inaccurate.

>                                                    Please reply to the

> list;

>                                                          please *don't* CC

> me.

> John

 

 

--

Lenron Brown

Cell: 985-271-2832

Skype: ron.brown762

 

 

 

 


Re: controlling the mouse?

Angelo Sonnesso
 

What is the golden cursor, and where do you get it?

 

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2017 8:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Hi,

Because of people like you, I am so passionate about the Golden Cursor. Nobody seems to know about it, and I cannot get information to contact the developer. However, The Golden Cursor makes it so easy to use point and click, that people could do a job where the mouse is needed even 5 percent of the time. Key commands rule for the blind, but I am trying to get people to know that the Golden Cursor could get people out of a jam at least 10 percent on the job. Please everyone, email me off line at:

Jesusloves1966@...

I will show you all that Golden cursor can do, and why we should be talking about this add on a lot. As you read, if you are on the job, and need to access the screen with the mouse, you can save that position in Golden cursor, and you can go right to that spot over and over to do your job. I am using the Golden Cursor litterly to do my job. This is what I want people to know. The Golden cursor is so over-looked. It gives people much better access concerning using the mouse, just being able to save mouse positions on the screen, and going right back to them. I run into situations everyday where Golden Cursor enables me to do something that I would need sighted help to do. Key commands and object navigation will not work 100 percent of the time, so using the Golden Cursor allows me to keep my job! This is why I want to get people's attention about this. Please give it a try.

Just go to the add on page and install Golden Cursor, and read the little bit of how to use it. You just will not believe what you can do with using the mouse when and if you have to.

I will do a diminstration, and I will put the recording on this site, and the NVDA add on sight, because people must know what the Golden Cursor can do. It could litterly allow someone to do many jobs that they could not do without it.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Lenron
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 9:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I love being able to use the mouse for certain things, it's awesome. I

think as long as we don't put ourselves in a certain box we will be

fine. I reall need to try this golden curser

 

On 2/3/17, Dennis L <dennisl1982@...> wrote:

> I have no problem using the key navigation. I see no need for a mouse.

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of john s

> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 5:36 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I don't mind moving the mouse pointer when I have to and I use Window Eyes

> mouse keys to do so.  Otherwise, I don't care where something is on the

> screen as long as I can get to it, first with keystrokes and then with

> mouse

> keys.

> earlier, David Moore, wrote:

> Hi all,

> There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to

> be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using

> navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object

> review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when

> I

> can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse

> pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I

> can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to

> the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites

> me

> when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a

> sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer

> and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive

> technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need

> to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited

> about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor

> for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to

> just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do

> something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you

> feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as

> the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted

> friends

> can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a

> third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is

> to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be

> researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made

> by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person,

> not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get

> excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move

> the

> mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have

> a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use

> key

> commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your

> mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes

> sense.

> I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw

> then.

> I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a

> difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be

> happy.

> Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference.

> I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen

> if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I

> can

> hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my

> mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want

> to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel

> like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just

> memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of

> what

> those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone.

> I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the

> icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you

> think

> about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job

> done. Take care, guys,

> David Moore

> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for

> Windows

> 10

> From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse

> to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click

> command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel <mailto:tsiegel@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key

> would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that

> command

> performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other

> cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the

> shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's

> all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and

> it

> clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that

> information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all,

> this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key

> combination.

> On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

> I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such

> commands are given.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands

> may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the

> move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse

> command is numpad slash.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel <mailto:tsiegel@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This

> will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I

> believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual

> focus movement.

> On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

> In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a

> phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.

> That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

> Gene

> There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using

> object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being

> described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done

> with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds

> something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as

> I

> understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to

> something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation

> and

> screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users

> and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

> If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move

> the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move

> the

> mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing

> so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the

> command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the

> object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return

> point.

> I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing

> so

> is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use

> it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object

> navigation and screen review to advantage.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I

> think

> we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to

> move

> the mouse pointer around.

> The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

> object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

> Antony.

> On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

>> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

>> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

>> pixels.

> --

> All generalisations are inaccurate.

>                                                    Please reply to the

> list;

>                                                          please *don't* CC

> me.

> John

 

 

--

Lenron Brown

Cell: 985-271-2832

Skype: ron.brown762

 

 

 


Re: controlling the mouse?

Gene
 

Have you verified that the mouse can find roughly two percent more items or is that just an impression?  It may be that the mouse can find things that using screen review and object navigation review can't find but in your first post, you spoke of getting sighted help to move the mouse to an icon and set the golden cursor.  Your first message gave a strong impression that doing this usually requires sighted help.  Whether you meant to give that impression or not, that was the impression. 
 
One of the main points I wanted to make is that if you know how to use object navigation and screen review, you can find a lot of things and then move the mouse to them with the NVDA move mouse command.  You can then set the Golden Cursor yourself to move to that point when commanded to.  You appear to be largely discounting this and in doing so, you are implying far mor dependence on sighted users than is needed much of the time when working with setting Golden Cursor points.  I'm not saying the Golden Cursor is not valuable.  I'm saying that you appear to be overestimating its value while underestimating the value of using object and screen review both in conjunction with and not in conjunction with the golden cursor. 
 
I wouldn't be surprised if some items in some programs can't be seen unless a mouse is used.  I don't know why from a technical point of view.  but I can find a lot of things using object and screen navigation.  Also, I would think that in many work programs, with or without the Golden cursor, scripting is necessary.  The Golden Cursor is not a panacea for access problems.  It can help but it can't solve nearly all the access problems encountered.
 
gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2017 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

I keep saying that the more tools you have at your disposal, the more you can do. Let us say, on the job, that you can do 90 percent of what you need to do with key commands. I have used the mouse to do the other ten percent. Ten percent on the job is a lot. If the blind keep being told that they do not need the mouse at all, they will not know that they can do certain tasks on the job ten percent of the time, and they might not be able to do their job. The mouse does have a crutial use in cases where one's job depends on it. Golden Cursor makes it so easy to work with the mouse, that someone might be able to do their job. This is how important the Golden Cursor is. This is why I am so passionate about it. A blind person might be able to use the mouse even 2 percent that will allow them to keep their job. That is important. The mouse pointer can access controls that object review will never find on the screen. Pointing and clicking with the touch pad or mouse, can enable me to access web sites that I could not access any other way. I am not saying that one way is better than another way. We will indeed use key commands 90 percent of the time. However, in my personal and work life, being able to control the mouse and point and clicked has gotten me out of jams 10 percent of the time. Why don't people want every tool in their tool box they can have, just in case they might need that tool 1 percent of the time. That 1 percent might make a difference if you can do something at work or not. I am just saying that it is good if you can include the mouse in your tool box, in case you might need it at a crucial time. The Golden cursor is the best way that I have been able to find where you can use the mouse pretty good. The Golden Cursor allows a windows user to use the mouse pretty good. Try it for yourself, before you make a judgement. Even JAWS added the feature to be able to move the mouse and hear what is under the mouse. Sometimes, maybe at work, that is the only way you might be able to access something so you can keep your job. Therefore, it is worth keeping that mouse option hidden in your tool box, and you might be using it more than you think if you need to access a very important control on a page, your job might depend on it.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 11:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

You are assuming that review modes see everything the mouse sees.  Unless you have done enough comparison to know that is an unsupported assumption.  I don't assume that every thing in every program that can be moved to with a mouse can be moved to using various review modes.  While I don't need to use a mouse to use the programs I use and review modes allow me access to what I want, I have no basis to assume that I won't find a program where I can see things with a mouse I can't otherwise.  Also, some links on the Internet require a mouse to activate them.  I haven't played with a mouse on a web site but having a mouse may make working with this or that site to do something possible, if cumbersome.

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 7:55 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I have no problem using the key navigation. I see no need for a mouse.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of john s
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 5:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I don't mind moving the mouse pointer when I have to and I use Window Eyes mouse keys to do so.  Otherwise, I don't care where something is on the screen as long as I can get to it, first with keystrokes and then with mouse keys.


earlier, David Moore, wrote:

Hi all,
There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

 
 
On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Travis Siegel

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

 

Gene

 

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 

 

If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 

 

I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think

we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move

the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

> pixels.

--

All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;

                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 


 

John

 



Re: controlling the mouse?

David Moore
 

Hi,

Because of people like you, I am so passionate about the Golden Cursor. Nobody seems to know about it, and I cannot get information to contact the developer. However, The Golden Cursor makes it so easy to use point and click, that people could do a job where the mouse is needed even 5 percent of the time. Key commands rule for the blind, but I am trying to get people to know that the Golden Cursor could get people out of a jam at least 10 percent on the job. Please everyone, email me off line at:

Jesusloves1966@...

I will show you all that Golden cursor can do, and why we should be talking about this add on a lot. As you read, if you are on the job, and need to access the screen with the mouse, you can save that position in Golden cursor, and you can go right to that spot over and over to do your job. I am using the Golden Cursor litterly to do my job. This is what I want people to know. The Golden cursor is so over-looked. It gives people much better access concerning using the mouse, just being able to save mouse positions on the screen, and going right back to them. I run into situations everyday where Golden Cursor enables me to do something that I would need sighted help to do. Key commands and object navigation will not work 100 percent of the time, so using the Golden Cursor allows me to keep my job! This is why I want to get people's attention about this. Please give it a try.

Just go to the add on page and install Golden Cursor, and read the little bit of how to use it. You just will not believe what you can do with using the mouse when and if you have to.

I will do a diminstration, and I will put the recording on this site, and the NVDA add on sight, because people must know what the Golden Cursor can do. It could litterly allow someone to do many jobs that they could not do without it.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Lenron
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 9:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I love being able to use the mouse for certain things, it's awesome. I

think as long as we don't put ourselves in a certain box we will be

fine. I reall need to try this golden curser

 

On 2/3/17, Dennis L <dennisl1982@...> wrote:

> I have no problem using the key navigation. I see no need for a mouse.

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of john s

> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 5:36 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I don't mind moving the mouse pointer when I have to and I use Window Eyes

> mouse keys to do so.  Otherwise, I don't care where something is on the

> screen as long as I can get to it, first with keystrokes and then with

> mouse

> keys.

> earlier, David Moore, wrote:

> Hi all,

> There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to

> be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using

> navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object

> review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when

> I

> can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse

> pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I

> can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to

> the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites

> me

> when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a

> sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer

> and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive

> technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need

> to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited

> about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor

> for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to

> just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do

> something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you

> feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as

> the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted

> friends

> can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a

> third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is

> to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be

> researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made

> by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person,

> not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get

> excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move

> the

> mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have

> a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use

> key

> commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your

> mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes

> sense.

> I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw

> then.

> I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a

> difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be

> happy.

> Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference.

> I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen

> if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I

> can

> hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my

> mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want

> to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel

> like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just

> memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of

> what

> those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone.

> I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the

> icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you

> think

> about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job

> done. Take care, guys,

> David Moore

> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for

> Windows

> 10

> From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse

> to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click

> command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel <mailto:tsiegel@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key

> would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that

> command

> performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other

> cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the

> shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's

> all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and

> it

> clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that

> information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all,

> this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key

> combination.

> On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

> I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such

> commands are given.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands

> may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the

> move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse

> command is numpad slash.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel <mailto:tsiegel@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This

> will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I

> believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual

> focus movement.

> On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

> In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a

> phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.

> That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

> Gene

> There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using

> object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being

> described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done

> with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds

> something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as

> I

> understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to

> something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation

> and

> screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users

> and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

> If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move

> the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move

> the

> mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing

> so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the

> command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the

> object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return

> point.

> I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing

> so

> is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use

> it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object

> navigation and screen review to advantage.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I

> think

> we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to

> move

> the mouse pointer around.

> The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

> object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

> Antony.

> On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

>> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

>> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

>> pixels.

> --

> All generalisations are inaccurate.

>                                                    Please reply to the

> list;

>                                                          please *don't* CC

> me.

> John

 

 

--

Lenron Brown

Cell: 985-271-2832

Skype: ron.brown762

 

 

 


Re: controlling the mouse?

David Moore
 

I keep saying that the more tools you have at your disposal, the more you can do. Let us say, on the job, that you can do 90 percent of what you need to do with key commands. I have used the mouse to do the other ten percent. Ten percent on the job is a lot. If the blind keep being told that they do not need the mouse at all, they will not know that they can do certain tasks on the job ten percent of the time, and they might not be able to do their job. The mouse does have a crutial use in cases where one's job depends on it. Golden Cursor makes it so easy to work with the mouse, that someone might be able to do their job. This is how important the Golden Cursor is. This is why I am so passionate about it. A blind person might be able to use the mouse even 2 percent that will allow them to keep their job. That is important. The mouse pointer can access controls that object review will never find on the screen. Pointing and clicking with the touch pad or mouse, can enable me to access web sites that I could not access any other way. I am not saying that one way is better than another way. We will indeed use key commands 90 percent of the time. However, in my personal and work life, being able to control the mouse and point and clicked has gotten me out of jams 10 percent of the time. Why don't people want every tool in their tool box they can have, just in case they might need that tool 1 percent of the time. That 1 percent might make a difference if you can do something at work or not. I am just saying that it is good if you can include the mouse in your tool box, in case you might need it at a crucial time. The Golden cursor is the best way that I have been able to find where you can use the mouse pretty good. The Golden Cursor allows a windows user to use the mouse pretty good. Try it for yourself, before you make a judgement. Even JAWS added the feature to be able to move the mouse and hear what is under the mouse. Sometimes, maybe at work, that is the only way you might be able to access something so you can keep your job. Therefore, it is worth keeping that mouse option hidden in your tool box, and you might be using it more than you think if you need to access a very important control on a page, your job might depend on it.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 11:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

You are assuming that review modes see everything the mouse sees.  Unless you have done enough comparison to know that is an unsupported assumption.  I don't assume that every thing in every program that can be moved to with a mouse can be moved to using various review modes.  While I don't need to use a mouse to use the programs I use and review modes allow me access to what I want, I have no basis to assume that I won't find a program where I can see things with a mouse I can't otherwise.  Also, some links on the Internet require a mouse to activate them.  I haven't played with a mouse on a web site but having a mouse may make working with this or that site to do something possible, if cumbersome.

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 7:55 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I have no problem using the key navigation. I see no need for a mouse.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of john s
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 5:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I don't mind moving the mouse pointer when I have to and I use Window Eyes mouse keys to do so.  Otherwise, I don't care where something is on the screen as long as I can get to it, first with keystrokes and then with mouse keys.


earlier, David Moore, wrote:

Hi all,
There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

 
 
On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Travis Siegel

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

 

Gene

 

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 

 

If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 

 

I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think

we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move

the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

> pixels.

--

All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;

                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 


 

John

 


Re: controlling the mouse?

David Moore
 

Hi Rosemarie,

I will email you off list, and we can talk about it.

Thank you so much.

Take care, Rosemarie, It is like calling out different races, I think, using terms like Sightling and Blindys. How can we integrate acting like that.

I will email you soon.

I will not say anymore on this subject. I will take this to a Facebook group I am on LOL! I am so sorry for saying what I said, if it offended anyone! Please forgive me.

Take care, guys!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 3:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Hi, David,

 

Yes, we all need to learn to work together instead of dwelling on the negative. I taught my sister Cecilia how to read braille when we were kids. When I went to summer camp, we wrote letters back and forth and that was so neat.

 

I don't like labels either. To me, terms like sightling or sightie sound so derogatory. It's like calling someone of a different race a horrible name. If we're going to get along in this world, we need to learn to think of each other as human beings.

 

I think that's really neat that you can use the mouse with golden cursor. I'm glad NVDA has that feature. There are times when you can't use just the keyboard to do something so you have to use the mouse. I'd like to take this off list if you don't mind but under a different subject so we don't clutter up the list.

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Hi Shaun,

I was not trying to show off at all. I am humble as they get, knowing that anytime I could be snuffed out it was not for the lord. That is not what I am saying at all. I just think that we should be altogether as human beeings instead of blindys, sightlings, and so on. Why can everybody just see each other as human beeings. I want to know about the sighted world, and the sighted world should want to know about the blind world. I have many blind friends who have the attitude that the sighted are the enany that is slowing them down. I don't see it that way at all. Sighted people forget that I am blind, because I do not go around shouting that I am blind, look at me, I am blind. I just talk to every human beeing the same way. I do not like labels at all for any people. I tell sighted people about how great it is to be blind all of the time, and I constantly have my sighted friends using my cane, learning some Braille, because they think it is fun. Every sighted person has told me that I am not bitter like so many other blind people are. There are blind people who are bitter toward the sighted, and that is not integrating. There are blind people who think they are so much better than a sighted person. We all need to talk about what we have in common instead of what is different about us all of the time. The sighted is not the enimy of the blind, like so many blind people think. I have had sighted people bend over backward to make something accessible for me. I am just saying that at work, for example, we need to say right click instead of applications to our boss, or they will not know what we are talking about. We, as blind people, need to speak some sighted lingo if we are going to make it in the work world. In my opinion, the majority wins. In my mind, because the world is dominately sighted, the blind need to try a lot harder to get along with the sighted than the other way around. This is where many different minorities disagree with me. We need to work so hard to get the majority to get along with us, because we are in the minority. That is not a popular way for minorities to think these days I sure know. That is what I think. The sighted owe us nothing. The sighted do not have to make things accessible for us if they do not want to. We need to do what we need by ourselves to make all things accessible. The sighted owe us nothing. I work night and day to fit into the majority, the sighted. I do not expect the sighted to fit in with me, because I am the minority. I hope that makes since to some people. The minority needs to work so hard to be included into the majority instead of the other way around. That is just reality.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 4:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Hay man, I actually am slightly offended about it.

We are blind not poor helpless retarded idiots much as some sightlings

may think of us.

I say this as politely as I can.

It is beneath me to show off.

We should be trying to intergrate.

I have an aunt that when seeing me doing things ie with my special tech,

oh he can use a screen reader for the blind good for him.

Its not that I have something to read the screen, but that I am first

and foremost a blind person using a computer.

Ie I have a cane, oh, the poor dumb helpless blind can walk!

I havn't as yet figured out golden curser, but the keyboard has a major

advantage over the sighted.

Who cares what they think anyway.

At any case we should be to every extent possible be trying to include

ourselves in making them make as much accessible.

If we show off to much they may stop and we will be in more trouble.

Most security software is just not fully accessible, its why I still use

msse for example.

I don't usually raise my voice but to me its a bit risky to show off.

We are blind! not dumb and retarded idiots.

We should never show off, showing off is what people do to hide

themselves, and to look cool and to hide the fact they suck.

I had a friend that used to do that and he was hard to get on with.

We need to be accepted as we are first and foremost.

If we showoff we are looking cheap, and that could get us treated different.

If I am getting this wrongly please say, this after all is only text.

By all means show but not show off or at least don't flaunt.

Even if its a good skill, I do do things and people are impressed, but

I don't brag it to the entire universe unless I know it will be excepted.

That does not include the entire net its just not a good thing to take.

Showing off could be a risky business.

 

 

 

On 3/02/2017 8:52 p.m., David Moore wrote:

> Hi all,

> There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

> David Moore

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> From: Gene

> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

> On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

> I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Gene

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

> On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

> In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

> Gene

> There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

> If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.

> I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Antony Stone

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think

> we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move

> the mouse pointer around.

> The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

> object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

> Antony.

> On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

>> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

>> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

>> pixels.

 

 

 

 


Re: GroupMe and quicker access?

John Sanfilippo
 

Hi Sean,

No I haven't tried it, but maybe I will. Thing is,we'll all have to use
Skype and some folks may still be using SMS. GroupMe is somehow within
Skype, which is part of Microsoft.

I'll ask folks in my group what they think.

Thanks,
John

On 2/4/17 13:42, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Well have you tried using skype groups.
Its not an especially good grooper but its quite good.
There isn't any moderation commands or features though.
Whats app is also good for the smart phone but audio quality can be bad.



On 5/02/2017 3:33 a.m., John Sanfilippo wrote:
Hello folks,

A friend introduced me to an app called GroupMe. It is a group messaging
app where you write a message, and all the group members get your
message. When anyone replies, all members see that reply and all
subsequent messages are seen by all members.

In my case, I'm the music minister in a small church. The music ministry
consists of about 5 members who need to keep in touch about scheduling
or new ideas. Instead of making individual calls or texting and CCIng
people, one message sent by anyone informs all.

The system works with any SMS texting, or cross platform apps are
available.

I'm wondering if anyone is using this app and if there are tricks to
using it.

I very much like the whole idea. I began using it with SMS and thought
it saved a lot of trouble. Later I learned that apps are available, for
instance, for iPhone, Windows 10 and other platforms.

As a Windows 10 user I find that there several items to tab thru to get
to the 3 most needed items.

It might be nice to tab to the item of interest, press some command
which remembers the spot, and later press some other related command to
bring focus to the remembered spot.

Given the recent discussion of The Golden Cursor, I did explore that,
but found it wanting.

Ideas appreciated.

John Sanfilippo

--
- JS o -


Re: Facebook

Robert Mendoza
 

Yes, you are absolutely correct but keep in mind that it depends on the network or net provider you have. IN which I think that some of here is having trouble with the mentioned link causing to loads from there machine. I would prefer or most likely to used with it in a manner of the signal that has great spot or fast signal. The better and stable connection , the better you have loading that with no problem at all. I personally tell this from my experience because here in my location there some places or area that very poor and ruggedly working. If you like a more extensive views you may still use the suggested site page of wwww.facebook.com but, if you are limited with your connection I would suggest to used instead the mobile site which is m.facebook.com which is very simple to navigate.
Robert Mendoza
On 2/4/2017 7:53 PM, Davy Cuppens wrote:

I do not understand while so many blinds use www.facebook.com just use m.facebook.com and there is no problem at all!
 
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2017 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Facebook
 
I've asked for a good tutorial on using Facebook with NVDA but so far, no luck.  All anyone says is that Facebook changes their web page interface so radically and so often, that it just isn't possible to use except for Smart Phone app versions.

Roger









On 2/3/2017 6:33 PM, nickjentz@... wrote:

Could anyone help me navigate facebook with nvda. I can click on any of the surrounding information, but can’t seem to get into the newsfeed and have it read.  Specifically, how do I get into the newsfeed and then how do you get it to read?  Thanks for any help.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 



Re: controlling the mouse?

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, David,

 

Yes, we all need to learn to work together instead of dwelling on the negative. I taught my sister Cecilia how to read braille when we were kids. When I went to summer camp, we wrote letters back and forth and that was so neat.

 

I don't like labels either. To me, terms like sightling or sightie sound so derogatory. It's like calling someone of a different race a horrible name. If we're going to get along in this world, we need to learn to think of each other as human beings.

 

I think that's really neat that you can use the mouse with golden cursor. I'm glad NVDA has that feature. There are times when you can't use just the keyboard to do something so you have to use the mouse. I'd like to take this off list if you don't mind but under a different subject so we don't clutter up the list.

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Hi Shaun,

I was not trying to show off at all. I am humble as they get, knowing that anytime I could be snuffed out it was not for the lord. That is not what I am saying at all. I just think that we should be altogether as human beeings instead of blindys, sightlings, and so on. Why can everybody just see each other as human beeings. I want to know about the sighted world, and the sighted world should want to know about the blind world. I have many blind friends who have the attitude that the sighted are the enany that is slowing them down. I don't see it that way at all. Sighted people forget that I am blind, because I do not go around shouting that I am blind, look at me, I am blind. I just talk to every human beeing the same way. I do not like labels at all for any people. I tell sighted people about how great it is to be blind all of the time, and I constantly have my sighted friends using my cane, learning some Braille, because they think it is fun. Every sighted person has told me that I am not bitter like so many other blind people are. There are blind people who are bitter toward the sighted, and that is not integrating. There are blind people who think they are so much better than a sighted person. We all need to talk about what we have in common instead of what is different about us all of the time. The sighted is not the enimy of the blind, like so many blind people think. I have had sighted people bend over backward to make something accessible for me. I am just saying that at work, for example, we need to say right click instead of applications to our boss, or they will not know what we are talking about. We, as blind people, need to speak some sighted lingo if we are going to make it in the work world. In my opinion, the majority wins. In my mind, because the world is dominately sighted, the blind need to try a lot harder to get along with the sighted than the other way around. This is where many different minorities disagree with me. We need to work so hard to get the majority to get along with us, because we are in the minority. That is not a popular way for minorities to think these days I sure know. That is what I think. The sighted owe us nothing. The sighted do not have to make things accessible for us if they do not want to. We need to do what we need by ourselves to make all things accessible. The sighted owe us nothing. I work night and day to fit into the majority, the sighted. I do not expect the sighted to fit in with me, because I am the minority. I hope that makes since to some people. The minority needs to work so hard to be included into the majority instead of the other way around. That is just reality.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 4:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Hay man, I actually am slightly offended about it.

We are blind not poor helpless retarded idiots much as some sightlings

may think of us.

I say this as politely as I can.

It is beneath me to show off.

We should be trying to intergrate.

I have an aunt that when seeing me doing things ie with my special tech,

oh he can use a screen reader for the blind good for him.

Its not that I have something to read the screen, but that I am first

and foremost a blind person using a computer.

Ie I have a cane, oh, the poor dumb helpless blind can walk!

I havn't as yet figured out golden curser, but the keyboard has a major

advantage over the sighted.

Who cares what they think anyway.

At any case we should be to every extent possible be trying to include

ourselves in making them make as much accessible.

If we show off to much they may stop and we will be in more trouble.

Most security software is just not fully accessible, its why I still use

msse for example.

I don't usually raise my voice but to me its a bit risky to show off.

We are blind! not dumb and retarded idiots.

We should never show off, showing off is what people do to hide

themselves, and to look cool and to hide the fact they suck.

I had a friend that used to do that and he was hard to get on with.

We need to be accepted as we are first and foremost.

If we showoff we are looking cheap, and that could get us treated different.

If I am getting this wrongly please say, this after all is only text.

By all means show but not show off or at least don't flaunt.

Even if its a good skill, I do do things and people are impressed, but

I don't brag it to the entire universe unless I know it will be excepted.

That does not include the entire net its just not a good thing to take.

Showing off could be a risky business.

 

 

 

On 3/02/2017 8:52 p.m., David Moore wrote:

> Hi all,

> There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

> David Moore

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> From: Gene

> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

> On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

> I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Gene

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

> On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

> In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

> Gene

> There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

> If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.

> I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Antony Stone

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think

> we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move

> the mouse pointer around.

> The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

> object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

> Antony.

> On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

>> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

>> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

>> pixels.

 

 

 


Re: NVDA and unzip utility

Kevin Cussick
 

the only thing I find with 7zip is that I can't make a self extracting version of nvda with all my addons. yes you can I hear you all say yes but it will not extract to the a set path on it's own and run and if I am wrong will like some one to tell me in de tale how to get this working thanks in advance.

On 04/02/2017 18:27, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi,

I've used 7 zip to unzip files that couldn't be unzipped with the program windows has. 7 zip is a great program.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 5:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and unzip utility

Hi,
Please, is there an unzip utility that works well with NVDA? WinRAR which I am using is not very accessible.
Many thanks
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 2:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation

hi.
only set in voice settings Punctuation/symbol level: none good lock and God bless you!

On 2/4/17, Dennis L <dennisl1982@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 11:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation



What if you want to get to the number to review it? It is easier to
just move forward once than to hear the whole thing spoken, then move
to the end or to the next word and move back. it's one command
instead of two or three.

Be careful what you wish for.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rob <mailto:captinlogic@gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 7:38 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation



When using the prev/next word hotkeys (numpad 4 and 6) it would be
nice if it did not stop at punctuation, but instead continued on to
the prev/next word.
Example:
Size on disk: 13.65 GB.
If you read that with the next word key, numpad six, you hear:
Size on disk colon 13 dot 65 gb
I want to hear
Size on disk 13.65 gb
where the numpad keys don't stop on the punctuation, but continue on
to the next word








--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org









Re: NVDA and unzip utility

 

I agree, before, I used pk zip in dos then later on winzip.
When it became payed, bits became inaccessible.
I got round this with a crack and that worked but when they switched to ribbons I decided that instead of cracking every year I was never going to spend the 30 bucks a year to keep it updated I switched to 7zip.
the only disadvantage to 7z I can see is that it can only create 7z and zip archives winzip can do more it can extract almost everything.
The other disadvantage is while creating or extracting files it will use all your processer power and memmory but I have hardly had a 7z file ever get corrupted and they are quite small.
7zip is opensource and multiplatform with addons and also running of the lzma2 sdk, I do know lzma is a power compression lib, I used it in dos so its been round a while now.
I use the shell mode mostly but it works and all computers I administrate have it as one of their utilities.
Its also a lot faster than any other zipping program I have ever used in my life.
To its credit bar the usual google spyware it installs its not changed and I am in 2 minds about google spyware with the amount of service I get.
I'd gladly give my information to someone that gives me so much, I mean even my mail is fast and secure world wide access.
True the nsa can probably read it but so what I have nothing to hide.
The worse spyware to get on your system is yahoo and thats only because they have so many security breaches they just don't seem to give a damn.

On 5/02/2017 6:05 a.m., Dejan Ristic wrote:
I use 7ZIP, and I seem to be satisfied with it.



Here is the link to it:

http://www.7-zip.org/
On 2/4/2017 2:56 PM, Pascal Lambert wrote:
Hi,
Please, is there an unzip utility that works well with NVDA? WinRAR
which I am using is not very accessible.
Many thanks
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 2:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation

hi.
only set in voice settings Punctuation/symbol level: none good lock
and God bless you!

On 2/4/17, Dennis L <dennisl1982@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 11:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation



What if you want to get to the number to review it? It is easier to
just move forward once than to hear the whole thing spoken, then move
to the end or to the next word and move back. it's one command
instead of two or three.

Be careful what you wish for.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rob <mailto:captinlogic@gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 7:38 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation



When using the prev/next word hotkeys (numpad 4 and 6) it would be
nice if it did not stop at punctuation, but instead continued on to
the prev/next word.
Example:
Size on disk: 13.65 GB.
If you read that with the next word key, numpad six, you hear:
Size on disk colon 13 dot 65 gb
I want to hear
Size on disk 13.65 gb
where the numpad keys don't stop on the punctuation, but continue on
to the next word







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org






.



.


Re: NVDA and unzip utility

 

just for zips and cabs.

On 5/02/2017 3:42 a.m., John Sanfilippo wrote:
I thought Windows has/had its own unzipping utility. But, when you need
to open other types of archives you'll need something else.

I'm learning to use 7zip. It seems entirely accessible, and I'm pretty
sure others use it.

John



On 2/4/17 8:56, Pascal Lambert wrote:
Hi,
Please, is there an unzip utility that works well with NVDA? WinRAR which I am using is not very accessible.
Many thanks
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 2:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation

hi.
only set in voice settings Punctuation/symbol level: none good lock and God bless you!

On 2/4/17, Dennis L <dennisl1982@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 11:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation



What if you want to get to the number to review it? It is easier to
just move forward once than to hear the whole thing spoken, then move
to the end or to the next word and move back. it's one command
instead of two or three.

Be careful what you wish for.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rob <mailto:captinlogic@gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 7:38 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Feature request: More Efficient Word Navigation



When using the prev/next word hotkeys (numpad 4 and 6) it would be
nice if it did not stop at punctuation, but instead continued on to
the prev/next word.
Example:
Size on disk: 13.65 GB.
If you read that with the next word key, numpad six, you hear:
Size on disk colon 13 dot 65 gb
I want to hear
Size on disk 13.65 gb
where the numpad keys don't stop on the punctuation, but continue on
to the next word








--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org






Re: GroupMe and quicker access?

 

Well have you tried using skype groups.
Its not an especially good grooper but its quite good.
There isn't any moderation commands or features though.
Whats app is also good for the smart phone but audio quality can be bad.

On 5/02/2017 3:33 a.m., John Sanfilippo wrote:
Hello folks,

A friend introduced me to an app called GroupMe. It is a group messaging
app where you write a message, and all the group members get your
message. When anyone replies, all members see that reply and all
subsequent messages are seen by all members.

In my case, I'm the music minister in a small church. The music ministry
consists of about 5 members who need to keep in touch about scheduling
or new ideas. Instead of making individual calls or texting and CCIng
people, one message sent by anyone informs all.

The system works with any SMS texting, or cross platform apps are available.

I'm wondering if anyone is using this app and if there are tricks to
using it.

I very much like the whole idea. I began using it with SMS and thought
it saved a lot of trouble. Later I learned that apps are available, for
instance, for iPhone, Windows 10 and other platforms.

As a Windows 10 user I find that there several items to tab thru to get
to the 3 most needed items.

It might be nice to tab to the item of interest, press some command
which remembers the spot, and later press some other related command to
bring focus to the remembered spot.

Given the recent discussion of The Golden Cursor, I did explore that,
but found it wanting.

Ideas appreciated.

John Sanfilippo