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Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
Gene
That isn't what is being asked. The person is
complaining about the first line being read automatically when a message
opens. Earlier, the person asked how to stop automatic reading of messages
when they open. People are asking why it matters if the first line is read
when a message opens. They didn't ask why the person wants to make the
first change he asked about, not having mail read automatically.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Bartholomew
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading
messages in outlook when open them? Hi,
Without wishing to sound too glib…choice is the reason why this is desirable. For example, I prefer cursoring down a mail as it gives me more control over skipping bits I don’t want to hear, eg URLs, rather than wasting time listening to it all!
Cheers Richard Bartholomew
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Ralf Kefferpuetz
No, there is no way. I’m wondering why you ask for it. Purpose of opening a mail is to read it….at least for me. But feel free to log an issue with NVDA.
Cheers, Ralf
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Dennis L
Is there anyway to prevent this?
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Ralf Kefferpuetz
Yup, that’s normal that it reads the first line.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Dennis L
That is unchecked in outlook 2016 it still reads the first line.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Ralf Kefferpuetz
NVDA-Control-B, Alt-S, uncheck it.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Dennis L
Hi, is there a way to prevent NVDA from automatically reading an outlook message when you open it? If so how?
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Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed
Brian Moore
Hi That's a good though that I didn't consider. Since I never bother with speech dictionaries, I didn't realize that they took regular expressions. I did know this at one point because I think there was a question about this on the NVDA certification exam when I took it but this is a good idea. Shall experiment.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Contact me on skype: brian.moore follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123
On 5/10/2020 4:41 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2020, Brian Moore wrote:The other thing which gets announced regardless of status bar state is imap syncing such as "downloading message 6 of 14 in spam" etc. Because I have 4You can probably mute those with a regular expression in a dictionary.
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Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 06:12 PM, Dennis L wrote:
Its clearly not just me who wants this.No, it's not. So far the "yeas" are 2, and the nays keep increasing. This will be my last comment. I'm not saying your wants should not be heard, but I am saying that they appear to be in the distinct minority, and that means they're unlikely to result in any change. Hareth's comment expresses my personal feeling/opinion on the matter, but better. My comment to Richard Bartholomew, https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/73646, can stand as a final statement from me that addresses the underlying considerations. And, again, as has been emphasized elsewhere on this very group over the last several days: If you have a change you wish to see, then please, file a feature request (for a new or extended feature) or a bug report on NVDA's GitHub. That's how things actually get rolling, at least when they do get rolling. The response to any feature request can be either, "No," or, "Not now, and it's a low priority." Real bugs always get addressed in order of severity. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth. ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019
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Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
Hareth
I think that defeats the very purpose of a screenreader!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
If it wont at least, read's the highlighted line, which is the current 1st line it won't be a screenreader. Its like asking the developers to don't show a message when opened for the sighted people. The devs would respond to them with "close your eyes" with our case it would be: Well, turn off your screenreader! that's the option, and its available with a hotkey. This is one of the strangest request I've seen to date. TC
On 5/10/20, Dennis L <dennisl1982@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you I am the same way. If I don't want it to read anything it should
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Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
Dennis L
I have seen at least one other person request this feature. Its clearly not just me who wants this.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:58 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:
And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences. This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle. Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth. ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019
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Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:
to read it in your preferred mode by default.And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences. This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle. There are constant complaints about how complex the preferences settings are for a wide variety of programs, but those complexities are the direct result of trying to allow individual users maximum control over how things work. And even then, default choices have to be made, none of which satisfy everyone. There are times when giving no options makes far more sense than giving many, when exiting the default behavior is a single keystroke away. You (any you) may argue whether that's the case here, and that's perfectly legitimate discussion, but it's very hard to argue the general principle. Option bloat is a very serious issue to be considered and it's often hard to strike the right balance between "all" or "nothing" that makes most happy. Everyone will never be happy. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth. ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019
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Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed
Luke Davis
On Sun, 10 May 2020, Brian Moore wrote:
The other thing which gets announced regardless of status bar state is imap syncing such as "downloading message 6 of 14 in spam" etc. Because I have 4You can probably mute those with a regular expression in a dictionary. I'm going on your text only; you might have to look at the log or speech viewer to see what the exact text sent to the synth is, but something like this might work for you: ^downloading *message *\d+ * of *\d+ *in.*$ With nothing as the replacement text. Luke
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Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
Richard Bartholomew
Absolutely nothing and is what I do constantly – the control key is one of the most important ones for this reason! Obviously, the point of opening a message is to read it but, surely, to read it in your preferred mode by default. However, I shan’t be losing any sleep over this if it’s not implemented since, like you, it’s second nature to me; the only time it’s an irritant is when doing so doesn’t immediately mute the speech which can happen depending, I think, upon the message content.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 10 May 2020 21:23 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:16 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:
Same here, but what's so difficult about hitting CTRL to shut NVDA up as soon as you open an e-mail message, then use whatever navigation method you deem optimal to go through the message from there? I have to shut up NVDA or JAWS on many occasions, for many reasons, and my reach for CTRL or ESC to accomplish same is almost automatic now. Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth. ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019
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Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
Dennis L
Thank you I am the same way. If I don’t want it to read anything it should give me that option.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Bartholomew
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:16 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
Hi,
Without wishing to sound too glib…choice is the reason why this is desirable. For example, I prefer cursoring down a mail as it gives me more control over skipping bits I don’t want to hear, eg URLs, rather than wasting time listening to it all!
Cheers Richard Bartholomew
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
No, there is no way. I’m wondering why you ask for it. Purpose of opening a mail is to read it….at least for me. But feel free to log an issue with NVDA.
Cheers, Ralf
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Is there anyway to prevent this?
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Yup, that’s normal that it reads the first line.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
That is unchecked in outlook 2016 it still reads the first line.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
NVDA-Control-B, Alt-S, uncheck it.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Hi, is there a way to prevent NVDA from automatically reading an outlook message when you open it? If so how?
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Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:16 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:
Without wishing to sound too glibSame here, but what's so difficult about hitting CTRL to shut NVDA up as soon as you open an e-mail message, then use whatever navigation method you deem optimal to go through the message from there? I have to shut up NVDA or JAWS on many occasions, for many reasons, and my reach for CTRL or ESC to accomplish same is almost automatic now. I, like Ralf, cannot fathom why one would open a message if not to read it. And what is ideal as far as how its read will vary from person to person. But the default of "start reading the message" makes a lot of sense, at least to me. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth. ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019
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Re: did this site change over night?
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:13 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
This link is for sales related support ONLY!And if the problem is with their sales website, and it is, then that's who to contact. I get what they're saying about technical support issues with the range of products and makers they sell. But you can't consider a flaw in their web presence for sales as anything besides sales related. If they do, then, well, if you can avoid them for further business then I would. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth. ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019
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Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
Richard Bartholomew
Hi,
Without wishing to sound too glib…choice is the reason why this is desirable. For example, I prefer cursoring down a mail as it gives me more control over skipping bits I don’t want to hear, eg URLs, rather than wasting time listening to it all!
Cheers Richard Bartholomew
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: 10 May 2020 19:26 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?
No, there is no way. I’m wondering why you ask for it. Purpose of opening a mail is to read it….at least for me. But feel free to log an issue with NVDA.
Cheers, Ralf
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Is there anyway to prevent this?
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Yup, that’s normal that it reads the first line.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
That is unchecked in outlook 2016 it still reads the first line.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
NVDA-Control-B, Alt-S, uncheck it.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Hi, is there a way to prevent NVDA from automatically reading an outlook message when you open it? If so how?
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Re: did this site change over night?
And the pot (I mean plot) thickens. Now I remember why I had trouble contacting them. I forgot that they don't actually have a tech support area. In fact it says on their contact page "This link is for sales related support ONLY! For technical related support you must contact the support of your product directly, you can find the address listed in the respective product page." Not going to work if I'm having trouble with their website. I just sent something to their sales team and I know they will complain at me, but the good thing is this. I did link them to NVDa, again, so we'll see if they can nudge the right people, again. Thanks., and let's hope I do not have to ask for help about this for a long long time to come. Let's just hope that somethingn good happens. Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there. For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there. Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here
On 9 May 2020, at 13:07, Brian Vogel wrote:
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Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed
David Goldfield
I did remember to mention it in the bug which I just filed in Bugzilla.
David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019 WWW.DavidGoldfield.org On 5/10/2020 9:12 AM, Ron Canazzi
wrote:
Hi David,
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Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed
Brian Moore
The other thing which gets announced regardless of status bar state is imap syncing such as "downloading message 6 of 14 in spam" etc. Because I have 4 email accounts, these imap syncing announcements are frequent and interrupt work regularly. This is new as of version 68. Not sure if I should add to David's bug or file a separate one because it is basically the same issue. Brian. Contact me on skype: brian.moore follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 On 5/10/2020 2:52 PM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 02:42 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
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Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed
David Goldfield
I have filed a bug in Bugzilla. Please feel free to add to this if I have missed anything.
David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019 WWW.DavidGoldfield.org On 5/10/2020 2:49 PM, Robert Kingett
wrote:
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Re: did this site change over night?
Actually these guys are just resellers of a lot of products. Bu tyeah I'm willing to try one more time. Take care Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there. For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there. Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here
On 10 May 2020, at 12:35, Brian Vogel wrote:
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Re: did this site change over night?
Sarah,
I know what you mean. But, where money is involved and there are sales to be lost, sometimes a nudge is all it takes. There's very little point in not extending minimal effort (and labeling buttons is about as minimal as it comes) to retain even a small market segment. And using the, "I can't buy from you since this change," angle is well worth doing. If they won't make things accessible on principle, they may if losing money is involved. And, in the end, the underlying motivation is not relevant, the end result is. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth. ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019
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Re: did this site change over night?
I have contacted them in the past, but you can probably guess where that went. Many of these developers in this community of flight simulation really don't care and just want the money, and some have secondary jobs, so if they lose out or go broke it doesn't matter to them. Some are willing to help but most are not. I will try again with these guys. Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there. For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there. Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here
On 10 May 2020, at 11:02, Brian Vogel wrote:
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Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 02:56 PM, Ali Savas wrote:
Maybe the developers of NVDA can do something about the verbosity.And this is true. However, just as Mr. Kingett suggested filing a bug report with Mozilla, the same applies as far as NVDA, but using the GitHub system: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues New Issue button (after, of course, having searched to see if the issue you're about to report may have been reported already by someone else, in which case you could enter a comment to it). While making posts to these lists is entirely appropriate as an awareness-raising mechanism for the membership, it is not appropriate if you want to have those who are capable of fixing something know that there's a problem to begin with. That requires bug reporting, no matter the software involved. In a case like this, it likely requires two bug reports, as it is unclear what needs to be changed. And the fact that JAWS does one thing while NVDA does another is no guarantee that NVDA is "wrong" and JAWS is "right." There are all sorts of subtle differences in behavior based on both intentional action and different decisions being made about "what's best." -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth. ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019
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