It's easier, in my opinion, to demonstrate how object navigation works than to try to explain it.  After it is demonstrated, an explanation might be helpful but I learned how to use object navigation by experimentation with very little reliance on explanations. 

 

Do the following:

This discussion uses the desktop keyboard layout.  I don't use the laptop layout and am notfamiliar with it. 

Issue the command numpad insert numpad 7.  That is, hold numpad insert and while doing so press 7.  Do this until you have moved through the review options you can move to in that way.  Then move back using numpad insert numpad one.  Stop at object navigation. 

Now, open some simple program everyone has on their computer.  Let's use Notepad. 

Write the word "test."

Now, issue the command numpad insert numpad 4.  You will move from the document window to another part of the program. 

Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 6.  You are back in the document window again.  You have moved first to a different object, then back to the document window, the object you started on.

Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 8. 
You have moved out of the document window and are now at an object that says untitled notepad window.  Move up again with the same command.  I'm not sure what you will hear depending on your version of Windows.  You may hear desktop window.  Try moving to the left and right by object with numpad 4 and 6. At least on my machine, I hear no next, no previous.  

So move down one level again with numpad insert numpad 2.  On my machine, I can't move to the left but I can move to the right from where I am.  If I move to the right enough times, I get to untitled notepad window again.  

Move down once to get back into the Notepad program.  Start moving to the right, I don't think you can move to the left.  If you move enough times, you will be back in the edit field with the word test you wrote awhile ago.

 

The point is that you first moved to the window, then continuing to move down you moved into the window and then moved right object by object until you got back into the edit field.  

 

Experiment and look around.  You may find that by looking around and experimenting, things start to make sense as you conceptualize what you are doing as you move.  

Try moving around using the move left and right commands and moving up and down and then using the move left and right commands.  Note that you can move to a lot of structures.  Some you can move into and some you can't because you are already in them.

 

If you get lost, you can always return to the program window where you started by alt tabbing out of and then alt tabbing until you return to the window. 

 

This demonstration may not explain things technically precisely accurately in terms of definitions.  I'm not sure I know exactly how to explain everything technically accurately.  The point is to experiment and get a concept of what you are doing by experimentation and observation.    

 

This may or may not allow you to understand everything.  But this kind of experimentation, along with working with a good tutorial section that explains object navigation may allow you to understand it.

 

Also, note carefully that if you leave NVDA set to screen review, you can't review the screen accurately much of the time if you intend to move somewhere and then use the standard review commands such as numpad 8 read current line.  You must have NVDA set for object navigation to have review work reliably.  I have said before that most NVDA users don't and won't understand this and that you should automatically be returned to object review when you leave the window you are in.  I still feel strongly about this. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ann Byrne

Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:36 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support

How is each one invoked?
At 04:03 PM 7/1/2016, you wrote:
>Hi,
>A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app
>(Windows+I) where you do need to use object
>navigation to read descriptions of settings.
>Cheers,
>Joseph
>
>From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
>Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
>To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support
>
>
>Joseph Lee wrote:  "If you are using Windows 8,
>8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps."
>
>Joseph, is there any material somewhere that
>gives some discussion or examples of using
>object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example?
>
>I have not been able to get my arms around this,
>and it's probably because I'm trying to use it
>"in the wrong place."  I strongly suspect that
>had I known how to use these features the
>step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the
>Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might
>have been completed.  I had one of those rare
>"throw up my hands and walk away" moments
>because I could not figure out how to get NVDA
>to "play correctly" with the various pop-up
>overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can.
>
>Even if you could direct me to either an app or
>a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.
>
>--
>Brian
>
>I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how
>cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
>          ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for
> Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"
>
>
>
>
>

Hi,
I have the browser set to Firefox. However when I click on a link within an
email message, it is opened with MSFT Edge. This does not happen all the
time.
Any idea?
Thanks and blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jacob
Kruger
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 10:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Windows logon screen: was [nvda] Problem with Secure Desktop

Windows key + Enter should, hopefully, get narrator to start talking, and,
it should be able to read some of the logon screen to you, but, only really
allows you to navigate using tab, and arrow keys.

Good luck

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: Windows logon screen: was [nvda] Problem with Secure Desktop

I followed the instructions in the mesage below to copy the current
configuration to the Windows logon screen. However, i missed the
checkbox to have NVDA work at that screen. Now after making some
changes, including setting Windows to never slep, it boots directly into
the logon dialogue and says Configuring Windows. That is the NVDA
mesage, but it won't do anything more. Is there a way to get past this
dialogue and proceed to a normal boot?

Thanks,
John

On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 10:36:32PM -0700, Tyler Spivey wrote:

Secure desktop is the desktop for things like UAC screens, and the
Windows logon screen.

This uses a completely different NVDA profile, with a separate
speech/braille config. By default it's set to espeak.

My first guess is your machine is going to sleep, and it's asking for
your password when it wakes up. You can turn off sleep in the power
options.

If you want to copy the current configuration to the secure desktop, so
it uses the same speech/braille settings as the logged in NVDA, you can
do that.
* Press ctrl+NVDA+G, to open the NVDA General settings.
* Press the button that says Use currently saved settings on the logon
and other secure screens (requires administrator privileges).
* If the secure desktop appears during this process, it's probably an UAC
prompt. Press alt y.
If you want NVDA to work at the logon screen, the General settings dialog
has a checkbox for that as well.

On 6/27/2016 9:54 PM, John J. Boyer wrote:

If I don't do anything on my machine for a while it goes to Secure
Desktop, whatever that is, and NVDA is not working. The only way I can
get out of it is to shut down the machine and turn it back on. Does
anyone know what Secure Desktop is and how to get rid of it?

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer; President,
AbilitiesSoft, Inc.
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
Website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: 501(C)(3) Nonprofit
Location: Madison, Wisconsin USA
Mission: To develop softwares and provide STEM services for people with
disabilities which are available at no cost.

Hi !

It’s true that a space before a question mark is syntactically incorrect in English, but it is correct in French, where any punctuation symbols made up of two parts, such as the question mark and the colon, the latter being two dots above each other, are always separated from the last word of the sentence. I personally can’t think of any languages where doubole question marks are the norm, but even in English some people right multiple exclamation marks.

Given what I wrote above about the French standard for question marks, I don’t think NVDA should automatically read a question mark if it is separate from the last word of a question, as that may well annoy French users of NVDA, or even multilingual users like me. So it’s probably better that anyone who wants a separated question mark to be spoken for proof-reading should either review the ends of their questions character by character, or tweak their punctuation settings somehow. That’s just my opinion: I have no problems with questions in English, French or German, the three languages I use myself.

Bye for now!

From Clare

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: vendredi 1 juillet 2016 00:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading

 

Chris,

            And what I'm telling you is that the first version of the question does not read correctly, to my ears, in either NVDA or Window-Eyes and the second two read precisely the same way.

            Since double exclamation points and double question marks (and/or combinations thereof) are not uncommon I have no issue with a screen reader reading these without any extra string of punctuation.

            I agree that a terminal space before the question mark itself is syntactically incorrect and the words should be read followed by "question mark" announcing the punctuation.  There is no case in written English that I know of where a question mark can "free float" and be syntactically correct.  It is always firmly attached to the final word in a question construction.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    

 

You're welcome - it has raised the issue of accessing text boxes again
though and we would like to make this easier so it's definitely something
we'll look at.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Quentin,



Many thanks for this workaround. The text boxes are not inline so I will
utilize your second approach. I have no control over the people who use
them. I have given them feedback but I do not hold out much hope for
change.



Pranav

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin
Christensen
*Sent:* Friday, July 22, 2016 6:23 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Accessing text boxes in Microsoft Word



Hi Pranav,



Firstly, the ideal solution here (even using Jaws to be honest), is to
convince people not to use text boxes.



NVDA doesn't currently have a direct keystroke, it's something we could
look into. For now, though, there are still a couple of ways of reading
text boxes currently:



If the text boxes are positioned "in line with text", they can be found
within the text of the document. Currently they are identified as "slash"
though that's something we're working on.



Once you are in a text box (or picture or other object) you can press TAB
to move between them. You can add a text box into a document by pressing
alt+n, x, enter then press escape once (so you are out of the text itself
but the text box is still selected), then you can press TAB to move between
the objects in the document (this wraps so if you press TAB on the last
object in the document it will jump back to the first object). Be sure to
either delete the text box you added or not save changes to this document!



You can also use the accessibility checker, which is handy for finding
things but I'll warn you it's not the most direct route: In Word 2016 you
can get to this from the "tell me what you want to do" edit box by pressing
alt+q and typing "check", but from 2013 (or from 2016) you can press alt+f
(file menu), then i (info tab), then i (inspect document) then down arrow
to check accessibility. This opens the check accessibility task pane but
unfortunately puts the focus back in your document so you need to press
F6. This shows any accessibility issues, so if you down arrow through the
details it will say "Warning" then "objects not inline", then "text box 2"
(not sure why, they all seem to be called text box 2?). Press enter on
that text box and press SHIFT+F6 to jump back to your document with the
text box selected (this works the same as the previous method of adding a
new text box but without changing your document. It is more cumbersome
though, I'll not deny that!).



Kind regards



Quentin.



On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

How do I access the contents of text boxes in Microsoft Word? In jaws, I
could
get a list of objects in a word document and access them that way. NVDA as
far
as I know does not support this yet. I need this at work because some of
my job
related documents have text boxes in them.
Note:
At work, I am using Word 2013 but this query is Word version agnostic.
Pranav







--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA E-Book now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph +61 7 3149 3306

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA E-Book now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

A major agency in the United states, the American Foundation for the
Blind, posted tutorials on their web site.
http://www.afb.org/info/living-with-vision-loss/using-technology/assistive-technology-videos/learn-nvda/1234#like_button

--
We have probed the Earth, excavated it, burned it, ripped things from
it, buried things in it... That does not fit my definition of a good
tenant. If we were here on a month-to-month basis, we would have been
evicted long ago.
-Rose Bird

If I create a portable version of nvda from a machine running say, windows7 over the network to a machine running XP. does the new copy try to look for UIA on the new machine fail and sort itself out or not when its run.
I ask this as if one puts a portable version, say on a stick or worse, a cd then moves it around between operating systems, from a version created the other way around, ie on the xp machine, does this then mean it will not see uia on a newer machine. I've not tried this yet, but I just wondered if anyone knew to avoid me trying it.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

Alt a seems to work.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Huber" <kevin.huber1@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] and firefox

Hi Brian:
Alt-n will not work in Firefox, because it is an Internet Explorer
command.
The way I usually get to that message in Firefox is to press the f6 key
twice.
Kevin Huber

On 6/22/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Chris,

This is a SWAG based on my experience with JAWS and IE, but
when a notification bar such as the one you mention pops up in IE the
command ALT+N throws focus to it. Give that a try and see if it works
in
Firefox. Either way, please report back on your finding.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's
never
enough to keep up.
~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life

in
the Universe"

it takes a lot of continued work and resources to create such a program and
have it be properly effective. Why should blind programmers recreate the
wheel. Many programs, while they may not be fully accessible, are useable.
it's unfortunate that as programs come out with new versions, those that are
accessible often become less or inaccessible but while that is occurring,
some are becoming more accessible, at times because the developers are
working on accessibility for the program. I would much much rather have a
commercial program that I can see reviewed, which is made by a corporation
who does it for their business, then have some amateur programmers make
their own program.

And to add weight to my argument, one such program, I believe its open
source, is clam. It is poorly reviewed and I wouldn't use it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Carlos
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 9:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] the new nod32 9.0?


Hello:
I guess I know the answer to my question. But! I will ask it anyway.
There are a number of blind programmers/developers out and about. Why
have they not been able to create a blind friendly anti-virus program? If
it is a money issue? Why not seek funds from groups who will donate to
worthy projects? Why don't blind developer/programmers offer their
expertise and knowledge to the anti-virus developers?
I know that they are not good. But, I've seen some open source
anti-virus projects. So, it is possible to try and work on an anti-virus
project without requiring too much funding!
I do hope that at some point these issues will be dealt with so that
this topic would not come up so often on this list!


On 7/20/2016 12:38 AM, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:

Exactly. These manufacturers may have accessibility in mind, but they
never make it a priority due to the small number of customers that are
visually impaired. In my view, no matter how small the number of visually
impaired users are, their right to use the software cannot be ignored.



--
Carlos Gonzalez - Los Angeles, CA. - gmjc341961@gmail.com

Hi Kurt

I experience the same problem and it makes things rather difficult for my students when working in form fields.  I am not sure what causes the problem, but when it gives the error, just press Alt+Y and you should be able to continue with whatever you were doing.

 

	Heaven Botma Dosent Lecturer   T: 023 348 7634 C: 079 512 2856 F: 023 342 3959 E: heaven@... W: www.kaleidoscopesa.org Adderleystraat 20 Adderley Street Posbus 233 P.O. Box, Worcester, 6849

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of kwe33647@...
Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2016 8:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA giving script errors with Internet Explorer

 

Hi my name is Kurt,

I have the latest version of NVDA 2016.2.1 and experience a script error using the caps lock key.When I hit capslock on page Error "An error has occurred in the script on the page.

Error: Invalid calling object." 

Only happens with NVDA on in IE.

Issue doesn't happen in google chrome or firefox with NVDA on.

I am using Window 10 with the latest version of Internet Explorer.