From: Heiko Folkerts [mailto:heiko@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 1:53 PM
To: 'NVDA screen reader development' <nvda-devel@...>
Subject: Re: [Nvda-devel] Proposal for a new braille feature

 

Hi Jordy,

yes, that’s an interesting idea. It would help especially those who primarily use braile for reading texts.

 

I can put the idea in a github ticket tomorrow including if there is already similar one.

 

One could also think of special signs to embrace the miss spelled word. In fact it hast o be something recognizable in braile.

 

Heiko

 

 

 

Hi all,

I would like to propose a new feature for the braille output in NVDA.

In many other screenreaders, you can view miss spelled words (and bad grammar) in braille with a line of dots 7 and 8, well or not blinking. By example: in Jaws I can activate a feature that helps in MS Office to show spelling and grammar mistakes with a constant line of dots seven and eight. In Supernova I can do the same, but there the line blinks.

Is it possible to add a feature as described above in NVDA 2016.3 or in a newer version?

I cannot program in Python 2.7, or not good enough in Python 3.5, so I can’t help, but I will help if I can!

Hope someone’ll add this proposal to GitHub!

Thanks in advance!

Best regards,

Jordy Deweer.

On 14/07/2016 9:57 p.m., michael chopra wrote:

Shawn, I appreciate your suggestions, and will try and see what we can do. However, I think that your message with the suggestions came to the list.
Thanks.

From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 21:54
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] skype group general thread

Hi all.
Well I do think we can close this.
With any luck I will be going back to the groups.
After speaking to one of the admins off list and giving some suggestions on how to fix the current situation I think we can understand eachother and put this business behind us.
I will ofcause be watching them though.
Thats an if.
For the rest of you, these included clear guidelines and or group rules, warnings etc.
Openness and shared group decisions.
If they can do these things I am willing to give them another chance.
I am not unreasonable and I do want to be with the community.
At this point I concidder the matter closed, its up to them if they resolve it or not though I can't control that.
Maybe my way was not the best, maybe it was.
The fact is that it looks to be over within 24 hours in a mostly civil manner.
I am happy that an understanding has been reached of a sort.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene New
Zealand
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 8:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Win10 Defender

Hi


Is the settings option not opening? I just went into it using the enter key
and saw the different options there. Could you get to the second part where
these were?


Or is it one of the settings under this section?


Gene nz




On 14/07/2016 8:03 AM, Pascal Lambert wrote:

Hi,
When I run Windows Defender, the scanning options are accessible using the
tab key. However I cannot get the voice to read the settings option to
click on It to make changes.
Please, any idea why?
Thanks and blessings
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 12:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] The Paypal form..

Well, when I do it I use my currently registered card which comes up
with the last four digits of the choice and I simply agree to use it
create a new association or exit.

My guess is that for some reason one of the fields is not being filled
in correctly, and since its probably hidden by the time you get to see
the screen, its hard to figure it out. Normally certificate mismatches
or scripts that the anti virus does not like have error messages one
can hear so know where to start to look for the issue. To me nothing
has change in recent months apart from some combo boxes being easier
to use and predictable.
Its very hard from this end to diagnose what might be going on here.
I am also sure that the local area where you are has a telephone
number, most do, I rang through and got a very nice Irish lady a year
or so back when it kept rejecting my card details, and it turned out
to be a fault in their system and was fixed almost immediately.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stewart" <paganus2@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] The Paypal form..

Nope, has nothing to do with my card. I just got a new one last
February and immediately activated it. Further, I've sent payments to
this person several other times with the new card, although I use
from my bank balance when doing this, and everything has gone
smoothly until just a couple days ago. Nothing has changed on this
end--it was a sudden change on PayPal's site. I emailed them, but
just got back an auto robot reply based on the subject of my
message--no person ever read it and the suggestions given in the
reply message have nothing to do with my real problem so I don't know

where to go from here.

Roger










On 7/12/2016 4:14 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

Maybe and its far from my thoughts to suggest you might have let it
laps, but perhaps the card you specified is no longer valid, but it
should then suggest you set up a payment method instead. I just
cannot see where the problem is as it seems to be well protected
against silly entries and normally suggests a course of action to
you if it goes wrong It might be something really daft like the
currency is not allowed to be transferred in that country or
something. Here in the UK its a bit hard to judge as everything defaults

and it even gives you the exchange rate.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Stewart"
<paganus2@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] The Paypal form..

I'd very much appreciate this. I just tried to send money to my
friend again this morning and I get the same problem. Everything
seems normal until after I've filled in the amount I want to send
and type in a brief message. Next thing I tab to is a link saying
please choose a payment method. It used to bring up a screen with
the choices of my bank account or my Visa card. Now all that
happens when I choose this link is Firefox makes a familiar click
and I'm right back with the amount reset to zero and my message to
my friend deleted out. I just tried this several times this
morning, and the behavior is totally circular--that is it's just
stuck in an endless loop and I never get to chose a payment method
or get to the page where it just says send money now. I did send a
message similar to this to PayPal and will see what they may have
to say about it. Something has obviously changed on their page setup

and nvda isn't catching it for me.

Thanks.

Roger







On 7/11/2016 12:16 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Hmmm, I could probably get you a tutorial sometime this week. I
have a support call this afternoon and my windows virtual machine
is being a huge brat lately. If no one gets to it before I do
though, I'll put something up.

If NVDA doesn't have a spot for hosting such things I can do it
from my new site.

Best,

Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB
Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!
http://www.theoutofworkbum.work
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform
for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:
http://www.inclusiveandroid.com

On Jul 11, 2016, at 9:35 AM, Roger Stewart <paganus2@gmail.com
<mailto:paganus2@gmail.com>> wrote:

If there were any errors, nvda didn't report any. There may be
something but if the screen reader can't see it then neither can I.
I am using the latest stable nvda--2016.2.1

Roger









On 7/11/2016 9:43 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Roger, It sounds as if you have the ideal setup for what you
want to do. Well that's the good news. The bad news is it
makes it harder for us to diagnose. I think we've exhausted any
compatibility issues although if for some reason you're not
running the latest NVDA, you might want to hit the update button.

Then we have to get into making sure you have a valid payment
method on file, and looking at other things behind the scenes.

When something goes wrong, paypal has gotten decent at letting
you know. Near the top of the page there is usually a signpost
that tells you if there are errors. If you see one of those it
would be helpful if you sent us the text of the error.

Thanks,

Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB
Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!
http://www.theoutofworkbum.work
<http://www.theoutofworkbum.work/>;
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform
for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:
http://www.inclusiveandroid.com
<http://www.inclusiveandroid.com/>;

On Jul 11, 2016, at 7:17 AM, Roger Stewart <paganus2@gmail.com
<mailto:paganus2@gmail.com>> wrote:

I'm using Firefox and it is set as my default browser.

Roger









On 7/11/2016 7:50 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:

I don't remember Roger telling us what browser he's using but
I feel I have to agree with Brian here this seems like a
browser issue to me I was able to do the donation successfully
using Google Chrome and voice over on the Mac and yes the
boxes did come up as invalid until I finish typing in them. It
would definitely be worth your while trying Firefox if you
haven't already if you have tried Firefox and the same thing
happens please let us know I think switching browsers is a lot
more convenient than having several screen reader is on a
machine or soliciting cited assistance useful as that can be
sometimes

Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com
<http://www.aqua-mail.com/>;


On July 11, 2016 6:39:12 AM "Brian's Mail list account"
<bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

I can say that using Firefox 46 The form works as it always
did.
I just donated 30 aus and OK the invalid input did come up
as typing into the boxes, but I suspect this is an artifact
that until you finish it is indeed wrong.
As usual had several goes at remembering the caps and lower
case in the password, and it eventually accepted it and sent
me through when I clicked the button or link for doing the
donation.
My feeling here is that this is a browser issue if you cannot
get it to work, always try another browser. I did mention
that the IE current updat is a bit broken as far as some
accessibility is concerned, but its very very spcific it
seems as most of the time its fine.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material
at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 3:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Yes, put him back! Even though I'm not on the skype group, I don't think he should have been kicked out because of what could have been an honest mistake! None of us are perfect. Joseph has done so much for us so why ruin his good name.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 9:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Put him back! Put him back! I'm not on the skype list. Throwing myself on the floor screaming and pounding like a spoiled 4 year old. Put him back!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bobby
Sent: July-13-16 9:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Hay I am very angry and very sad that you took Joseph lee off the Skype group. He is a very good and wonderful man. He has bent over back words for all of us including me and this is what you put him through.
Please forgive him. He just made one ma steak.

Shawn, I appreciate your suggestions, and will try and see what we can do. However, I think that your message with the suggestions came to the list.
Thanks.
From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 21:54
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] skype group general thread

Hi all.
Well I do think we can close this.
With any luck I will be going back to the groups.
After speaking to one of the admins off list and giving some suggestions on how to fix the current situation I think we can understand eachother and put this business behind us.
I will ofcause be watching them though.
Thats an if.
For the rest of you, these included clear guidelines and or group rules, warnings etc.
Openness and shared group decisions.
If they can do these things I am willing to give them another chance.
I am not unreasonable and I do want to be with the community.
At this point I concidder the matter closed, its up to them if they resolve it or not though I can't control that.
Maybe my way was not the best, maybe it was.
The fact is that it looks to be over within 24 hours in a mostly civil manner.
I am happy that an understanding has been reached of a sort.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 21:54
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] skype group general thread

Hi all.
Well I do think we can close this.
With any luck I will be going back to the groups.
After speaking to one of the admins off list and giving some suggestions on how to fix the current situation I think we can understand eachother and put this business behind us.
I will ofcause be watching them though.
Thats an if.
For the rest of you, these included clear guidelines and or group rules, warnings etc.
Openness and shared group decisions.
If they can do these things I am willing to give them another chance.
I am not unreasonable and I do want to be with the community.
At this point I concidder the matter closed, its up to them if they resolve it or not though I can't control that.
Maybe my way was not the best, maybe it was.
The fact is that it looks to be over within 24 hours in a mostly civil manner.
I am happy that an understanding has been reached of a sort.

On 14/07/2016 9:28 p.m., michael chopra wrote:

Shawn, you are right. We haven't done that. Now, if you have a problem with
the way we are running this and the fact we have disabled joining via links,
please tell me.

From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 21:23
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda skype group and skype groups in general

Hmmm if he had plenty of chances, where was the warning.
on a lot of forums I have used you get a private warning and then a public
one.
To my knowledge, I saw no guidelines for the group.
No policy was posted nothing was mentioned.
Sorry friend but I am not buying it.
Kicking joseph is not the problem though I would have liked more notice.
However now you have closed down the new member joining you effectively have
made a private group for yourselves.
I have no problem with that I just don't want any part of it thats all.
You actually never explained reasons publicly in fact whenever anyone was
pulled there was little to no explanation of why.
It didn't bother me but maybe it should have bothered me more.
I'm sorry but you did this to serve yourown interests.
You didn't say why, and there were no warnings publicly.
There were no guidelines no ifficial policy was made.
There really need to be rules to violate before you start flexing muscle.
To be honest I don't think you understand that or deem it necessary to do
so.
To the rest of you tell me if I am being to harsh, but they asked and I
gave.



On 14/07/2016 1:01 p.m., Patrick Wilson wrote:

You didn't give joseph lee a chance to defend himself and I do the
same now.??? He had plenty of chances, anyone that may have gotten
removed from this group had plenty of chances, interesting

On Jul 13, 2016, at 7:55 PM, michael chopra <justforlists689@gmail.com>

wrote:

Good afternoon everyone. As an admin of said group, I am sorry to say

that we, Shawn, did give the said user a chance. Because he didn't give us
good reason to keep him in both groups, we removed him. Sorry for your
inconvenience. The way things are, we decided to make it so that only we who
are in these groups can add anyone,.

Thank you for reading and understanding.
From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Shaun Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2016 15:52
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda skype group and skype groups in general

Hi all users.
I am having some serious concerns about groups on skype.
I know we are not able to control what goes on outside this forum,

however, while I like unmoderated groups from time to time on loose topics
etc, I do see times when a moderator was needed.

Yesterday some users had issue with another user.
How he came accross and said user saying sapi4 didn't work on windows 10

which it does, saying that I was unsure never have used it in 10 myself.

I do know old sapi5 ms voices can cause dammage, etc.
Said user was removed without a chance to defend his actions.
Then both groups had their join features disabled.
It also appears with skype groups in general that everyone can add

remove, disable, hide unhide everything and everyone and the only protection
is to ask not to.

Clearly skype groups are not secure.
Once someone has a dissaggreement it can turn ugly quite fast.
I have seen random strings, and other junk posted on some of these and

offtopic chatter which I was happy to take part in.

I am no longer associated with both groups involved though.
A few days ago there was a descussion on what group or list was a good

mediam for nvda.

A forum and a email list came up.
From what I saw yesterday, an email list and forum can be moderated and

not everyone has admin power.

Yesterday it demonstrated how unready we as a community or at least some

of us are ready for that power.

Because of this to those in the groups effected I am not coming back.
You didn't give joseph lee a chance to defend himself and I do the same

now.

You have driven me away from what I thought would be a good group, and

have shown me skype groups are not the best medium for descussion at all
especially if they can not be moderated or secured.

There are a lot more things I want to say but I have said my bit.
I also know by putting this I am probably making enemies here may even be

cutting my path out of the groups involved, but I have no choice really.

I know we as a community are better than this.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 21:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda skype group and skype groups in general

Thanks michael.
You have made your position clear to me and I respect it.
I will not be coming back though as I don't exactly agree with it but look we have both said our piece and so be it.



On 14/07/2016 12:55 p.m., michael chopra wrote:

Good afternoon everyone. As an admin of said group, I am sorry to say that we, Shawn, did give the said user a chance. Because he didn't give us good reason to keep him in both groups, we removed him. Sorry for your inconvenience. The way things are, we decided to make it so that only we who are in these groups can add anyone,.
Thank you for reading and understanding.

From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2016 15:52
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda skype group and skype groups in general

Hi all users.
I am having some serious concerns about groups on skype.
I know we are not able to control what goes on outside this forum, however, while I like unmoderated groups from time to time on loose topics etc, I do see times when a moderator was needed.
Yesterday some users had issue with another user.
How he came accross and said user saying sapi4 didn't work on windows 10 which it does, saying that I was unsure never have used it in 10 myself.
I do know old sapi5 ms voices can cause dammage, etc.
Said user was removed without a chance to defend his actions.
Then both groups had their join features disabled.
It also appears with skype groups in general that everyone can add remove, disable, hide unhide everything and everyone and the only protection is to ask not to.
Clearly skype groups are not secure.
Once someone has a dissaggreement it can turn ugly quite fast.
I have seen random strings, and other junk posted on some of these and offtopic chatter which I was happy to take part in.
I am no longer associated with both groups involved though.
A few days ago there was a descussion on what group or list was a good mediam for nvda.
A forum and a email list came up.
From what I saw yesterday, an email list and forum can be moderated and not everyone has admin power.
Yesterday it demonstrated how unready we as a community or at least some of us are ready for that power.
Because of this to those in the groups effected I am not coming back.
You didn't give joseph lee a chance to defend himself and I do the same now.
You have driven me away from what I thought would be a good group, and have shown me skype groups are not the best medium for descussion at all especially if they can not be moderated or secured.
There are a lot more things I want to say but I have said my bit.
I also know by putting this I am probably making enemies here may even be cutting my path out of the groups involved, but I have no choice really.
I know we as a community are better than this.







.

On 7/14/16, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:

Hmmm if he had plenty of chances, where was the warning.
on a lot of forums I have used you get a private warning and then a
public one.
To my knowledge, I saw no guidelines for the group.
No policy was posted nothing was mentioned.
Sorry friend but I am not buying it.
Kicking joseph is not the problem though I would have liked more notice.
However now you have closed down the new member joining you effectively
have made a private group for yourselves.
I have no problem with that I just don't want any part of it thats all.
You actually never explained reasons publicly in fact whenever anyone
was pulled there was little to no explanation of why.
It didn't bother me but maybe it should have bothered me more.
I'm sorry but you did this to serve yourown interests.
You didn't say why, and there were no warnings publicly.
There were no guidelines no ifficial policy was made.
There really need to be rules to violate before you start flexing muscle.
To be honest I don't think you understand that or deem it necessary to
do so.
To the rest of you tell me if I am being to harsh, but they asked and I
gave.



On 14/07/2016 1:01 p.m., Patrick Wilson wrote:

You didn't give joseph lee a chance to defend himself and I do the same
now.??? He had plenty of chances, anyone that may have gotten removed from
this group had plenty of chances, interesting

On Jul 13, 2016, at 7:55 PM, michael chopra <justforlists689@gmail.com>
wrote:

Good afternoon everyone. As an admin of said group, I am sorry to say
that we, Shawn, did give the said user a chance. Because he didn't give
us good reason to keep him in both groups, we removed him. Sorry for your
inconvenience. The way things are, we decided to make it so that only we
who are in these groups can add anyone,.
Thank you for reading and understanding.
From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2016 15:52
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda skype group and skype groups in general

Hi all users.
I am having some serious concerns about groups on skype.
I know we are not able to control what goes on outside this forum,
however, while I like unmoderated groups from time to time on loose
topics etc, I do see times when a moderator was needed.
Yesterday some users had issue with another user.
How he came accross and said user saying sapi4 didn't work on windows 10
which it does, saying that I was unsure never have used it in 10 myself.
I do know old sapi5 ms voices can cause dammage, etc.
Said user was removed without a chance to defend his actions.
Then both groups had their join features disabled.
It also appears with skype groups in general that everyone can add
remove, disable, hide unhide everything and everyone and the only
protection is to ask not to.
Clearly skype groups are not secure.
Once someone has a dissaggreement it can turn ugly quite fast.
I have seen random strings, and other junk posted on some of these and
offtopic chatter which I was happy to take part in.
I am no longer associated with both groups involved though.
A few days ago there was a descussion on what group or list was a good
mediam for nvda.
A forum and a email list came up.
From what I saw yesterday, an email list and forum can be moderated and
not everyone has admin power.
Yesterday it demonstrated how unready we as a community or at least some
of us are ready for that power.
Because of this to those in the groups effected I am not coming back.
You didn't give joseph lee a chance to defend himself and I do the same
now.
You have driven me away from what I thought would be a good group, and
have shown me skype groups are not the best medium for descussion at all
especially if they can not be moderated or secured.
There are a lot more things I want to say but I have said my bit.
I also know by putting this I am probably making enemies here may even be
cutting my path out of the groups involved, but I have no choice really.
I know we as a community are better than this.

On 14/07/2016 12:55 p.m., michael chopra wrote:

Good afternoon everyone. As an admin of said group, I am sorry to say that we, Shawn, did give the said user a chance. Because he didn't give us good reason to keep him in both groups, we removed him. Sorry for your inconvenience. The way things are, we decided to make it so that only we who are in these groups can add anyone,.
Thank you for reading and understanding.

From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2016 15:52
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda skype group and skype groups in general

Hi all users.
I am having some serious concerns about groups on skype.
I know we are not able to control what goes on outside this forum, however, while I like unmoderated groups from time to time on loose topics etc, I do see times when a moderator was needed.
Yesterday some users had issue with another user.
How he came accross and said user saying sapi4 didn't work on windows 10 which it does, saying that I was unsure never have used it in 10 myself.
I do know old sapi5 ms voices can cause dammage, etc.
Said user was removed without a chance to defend his actions.
Then both groups had their join features disabled.
It also appears with skype groups in general that everyone can add remove, disable, hide unhide everything and everyone and the only protection is to ask not to.
Clearly skype groups are not secure.
Once someone has a dissaggreement it can turn ugly quite fast.
I have seen random strings, and other junk posted on some of these and offtopic chatter which I was happy to take part in.
I am no longer associated with both groups involved though.
A few days ago there was a descussion on what group or list was a good mediam for nvda.
A forum and a email list came up.
From what I saw yesterday, an email list and forum can be moderated and not everyone has admin power.
Yesterday it demonstrated how unready we as a community or at least some of us are ready for that power.
Because of this to those in the groups effected I am not coming back.
You didn't give joseph lee a chance to defend himself and I do the same now.
You have driven me away from what I thought would be a good group, and have shown me skype groups are not the best medium for descussion at all especially if they can not be moderated or secured.
There are a lot more things I want to say but I have said my bit.
I also know by putting this I am probably making enemies here may even be cutting my path out of the groups involved, but I have no choice really.
I know we as a community are better than this.






.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 21:23
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda skype group and skype groups in general

Hmmm if he had plenty of chances, where was the warning.
on a lot of forums I have used you get a private warning and then a public
one.
To my knowledge, I saw no guidelines for the group.
No policy was posted nothing was mentioned.
Sorry friend but I am not buying it.
Kicking joseph is not the problem though I would have liked more notice.
However now you have closed down the new member joining you effectively have
made a private group for yourselves.
I have no problem with that I just don't want any part of it thats all.
You actually never explained reasons publicly in fact whenever anyone was
pulled there was little to no explanation of why.
It didn't bother me but maybe it should have bothered me more.
I'm sorry but you did this to serve yourown interests.
You didn't say why, and there were no warnings publicly.
There were no guidelines no ifficial policy was made.
There really need to be rules to violate before you start flexing muscle.
To be honest I don't think you understand that or deem it necessary to do
so.
To the rest of you tell me if I am being to harsh, but they asked and I
gave.



On 14/07/2016 1:01 p.m., Patrick Wilson wrote:

You didn't give joseph lee a chance to defend himself and I do the
same now.??? He had plenty of chances, anyone that may have gotten
removed from this group had plenty of chances, interesting

On Jul 13, 2016, at 7:55 PM, michael chopra <justforlists689@gmail.com>

wrote:

Good afternoon everyone. As an admin of said group, I am sorry to say

that we, Shawn, did give the said user a chance. Because he didn't give us
good reason to keep him in both groups, we removed him. Sorry for your
inconvenience. The way things are, we decided to make it so that only we who
are in these groups can add anyone,.

Thank you for reading and understanding.
From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Shaun Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2016 15:52
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda skype group and skype groups in general

Hi all users.
I am having some serious concerns about groups on skype.
I know we are not able to control what goes on outside this forum,

however, while I like unmoderated groups from time to time on loose topics
etc, I do see times when a moderator was needed.

Yesterday some users had issue with another user.
How he came accross and said user saying sapi4 didn't work on windows 10

which it does, saying that I was unsure never have used it in 10 myself.

I do know old sapi5 ms voices can cause dammage, etc.
Said user was removed without a chance to defend his actions.
Then both groups had their join features disabled.
It also appears with skype groups in general that everyone can add

remove, disable, hide unhide everything and everyone and the only protection
is to ask not to.

Clearly skype groups are not secure.
Once someone has a dissaggreement it can turn ugly quite fast.
I have seen random strings, and other junk posted on some of these and

offtopic chatter which I was happy to take part in.

I am no longer associated with both groups involved though.
A few days ago there was a descussion on what group or list was a good

mediam for nvda.

A forum and a email list came up.
From what I saw yesterday, an email list and forum can be moderated and

not everyone has admin power.

Yesterday it demonstrated how unready we as a community or at least some

of us are ready for that power.

Because of this to those in the groups effected I am not coming back.
You didn't give joseph lee a chance to defend himself and I do the same

now.

You have driven me away from what I thought would be a good group, and

have shown me skype groups are not the best medium for descussion at all
especially if they can not be moderated or secured.

There are a lot more things I want to say but I have said my bit.
I also know by putting this I am probably making enemies here may even be

cutting my path out of the groups involved, but I have no choice really.

I know we as a community are better than this.

On 14/07/2016 1:01 p.m., Patrick Wilson wrote:

You didn't give joseph lee a chance to defend himself and I do the same now.??? He had plenty of chances, anyone that may have gotten removed from this group had plenty of chances, interesting

On Jul 13, 2016, at 7:55 PM, michael chopra <justforlists689@gmail.com> wrote:

Good afternoon everyone. As an admin of said group, I am sorry to say that we, Shawn, did give the said user a chance. Because he didn't give us good reason to keep him in both groups, we removed him. Sorry for your inconvenience. The way things are, we decided to make it so that only we who are in these groups can add anyone,.
Thank you for reading and understanding.
From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2016 15:52
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda skype group and skype groups in general

Hi all users.
I am having some serious concerns about groups on skype.
I know we are not able to control what goes on outside this forum, however, while I like unmoderated groups from time to time on loose topics etc, I do see times when a moderator was needed.
Yesterday some users had issue with another user.
How he came accross and said user saying sapi4 didn't work on windows 10 which it does, saying that I was unsure never have used it in 10 myself.
I do know old sapi5 ms voices can cause dammage, etc.
Said user was removed without a chance to defend his actions.
Then both groups had their join features disabled.
It also appears with skype groups in general that everyone can add remove, disable, hide unhide everything and everyone and the only protection is to ask not to.
Clearly skype groups are not secure.
Once someone has a dissaggreement it can turn ugly quite fast.
I have seen random strings, and other junk posted on some of these and offtopic chatter which I was happy to take part in.
I am no longer associated with both groups involved though.
A few days ago there was a descussion on what group or list was a good mediam for nvda.
A forum and a email list came up.
From what I saw yesterday, an email list and forum can be moderated and not everyone has admin power.
Yesterday it demonstrated how unready we as a community or at least some of us are ready for that power.
Because of this to those in the groups effected I am not coming back.
You didn't give joseph lee a chance to defend himself and I do the same now.
You have driven me away from what I thought would be a good group, and have shown me skype groups are not the best medium for descussion at all especially if they can not be moderated or secured.
There are a lot more things I want to say but I have said my bit.
I also know by putting this I am probably making enemies here may even be cutting my path out of the groups involved, but I have no choice really.
I know we as a community are better than this.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Doug Oliver
Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 21:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Agreed.
I'm not wanting to read this garbage.
Thanks all,
Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christo de Klerk" <christodeklerk@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Has madness descended on this list? Please, people, do our inboxes have to
be filled with all this rubbish. I think it is totally inappropriate to
carry on and on and on and on and on ad nauseam about an individual. Can
we please get back on track and discuss matters related to NVDA? I am so
sick of all this that I am about to leave a list that has been of immense
value to me. Please, please, plese, please just stop winging about Joseph
lee. Let us agree that for some he is the greatest, for others he is the
devil himself and for yet others he is just another nice guy. Please just
stop this rubbish now.

Regards

Christo


On 2016/07/14 11:02 AM, michael chopra wrote:

Look, aside from providing the wrong information, there are many other
things that he has done. I have to agree, someone said he is not a
community person, rather that he is an individual person.
Thank you.
From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 20:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

hello all.
i dont understand whats happenning.
i cant forget the goodness of joseph lee and his goodness and helps for
many people including me.
the transcendent and absolute goodness is only Allah not his servant.
and the immaculate people are the prophets and prophet mohammad peace be
upon him and his household.
i am shure all people love joseph, i dont understand what happened, but
which wrong informations he provided?

On 7/14/16, michael chopra <justforlists689@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm sorry, but have most of you seen the way he does stuff? The fact
that he knowingly gave wrong information and also, that when he was
given the chance, he did not speak up. The groups are better without
him. This is all I have to say on this, and I'm sorry for any distress
this may cause.
Thank you.
From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 18:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Yes, put him back! Even though I'm not on the skype group, I don't
think he should have been kicked out because of what could have been
an honest mistake! None of us are perfect. Joseph has done so much for
us so why ruin his good name.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Arlene
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 9:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Put him back! Put him back! I'm not on the skype list. Throwing myself
on the floor screaming and pounding like a spoiled 4 year old. Put him
back!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Bobby
Sent: July-13-16 9:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Hay I am very angry and very sad that you took Joseph lee off the
Skype group. He is a very good and wonderful man. He has bent over
back words for all of us including me and this is what you put him
through.
Please forgive him. He just made one ma steak.

--
Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written
down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel [who] enjoins them good and
forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes
unlawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and
the shackles which were upon them; so [as for] those who believe in him
and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down
with him, these it is that are the successful.
holy quran, chapter 7, verse 157.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

On 14/07/2016 3:02 a.m., Roger Stewart wrote:

I think this comes down to the fact that computers and programs are so
complex now that they can easily have personalities of their own. So
many variables that no 2 machines can ever be exactly alike. I changed
nothing here, but the PayPal thing just came up a few days ago and
before that, I could use Firefox no problem. However, I've never been
able to authorize a twitter client using Firefox going back about 6
years when I started using The Qube.

Roger








On 7/13/2016 4:29 AM, Clare Page wrote:

Hi!
Interesting that you have so much trouble with Firefox, both for using
PayPal and for authorizing Twitter clients! I made a payment with
PayPal last week using Firefox 47.0 and had no problems at all. I had
to re-authorise TWBlue relatively recently, also using Firefox, I
forget which version, and that worked fine too. Firefox is my default
browser, and I have never yet had to change the default to IE to do
anything. Either I'm lucky not to have problems with Firefox while
others do, or there must be some reason why this is happening to you
and not to the rest of us, which I can't guess. Hopefully somebody can!
Bye for now!

From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Roger Stewart
Sent: mardi 12 juillet 2016 23:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] PayPal seems to be browser related

I just tried using PayPal with Internet Explorer 11 and it worked!
Don't know if something was changed in Firefox or if PayPal has just
added itself to an ever increasing number of web sites that just don't
work correctly with Firefox. These sites are usually ones dealing with
money--either sending, donating, or buying something online. Also I've
noticed that none of the Twitter clients like TW Blue or Chicken
Nugget can be authorized with Twitter unless I set my default browser
to IE.
So for now, I'll just use IE when doing anything with PayPal and hope
it keeps working as it should.


Roger








.

.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 21:12
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Well I agree.
To thouse that wander at my actions on publicly posting about this on the list instead of privately, I am not confident that my concerns would count or that I could control myself whilst posting them.
Joseph did admit that the issue was partly his presponsibility and did apologise to one of these people aparently they were group admins.
Right, fine.
For the record kicking joseph for what he said was not the problem.
It was the immediate closing down of all newcomers to join that I had issue with.
I guess I could have asked the admins for their contacts.
On the other hand I have had people have fun by posting junk all over the group pluss a few other things. the events of 2 days ago demonstrated the imaturity of the people involved.
The only think I would probably give is a good flame up the backside.
I don't usually get this mad, I am still mad.
I simply decided to exclude myself from them.
While briefly testing a game for a group I tested for which was online, there were people like this.
Not admins but people like this, they caused drama in game, hacked others accounts, evaded banns etc.
They got a responce from joseph.
As I said, before they deserve nothing.
As far as I care they can stay locked forever in their group, because by stopping new users joining its what they have done.
I don't want to be locked with them.
I want a civilised conversation without the stupidity that seemed to be going on.
The groups were winding down anyway, and without joseph I doubt they will stay active much longer.
Fact is while joseph can make mistakes I trusted him for increasing traffic in the groups, I never trusted those presumedly at the top, with no policies to speak of, the reason I went with it was I hoped that everyone would make sence.
Its obvious now I was wrong.
This is my opinion only.
Bottem line.
They kicked joseph because they wanted him out so they could do what they wanted, they then closed down the join on the group effectively locking themselves in.
Even if I did actually bring my concerns to them I'd still have no option but to leave.
They are obviously unable to govern.
By posting on a moderated list I have to control what I post a think I am not confident otherwise doing.
Second, I want to warn people off the groups and others these people may create because they are potentially unstable.
To anyone htat want to flame me, you asked me to explain my actions.
I have.
take it or shove it up your backsides but I have explained.
Ask no more of this.



On 14/07/2016 6:19 p.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Yes, put him back! Even though I'm not on the skype group, I don't think he should have been kicked out because of what could have been an honest mistake! None of us are perfect. Joseph has done so much for us so why ruin his good name.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Arlene
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 9:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Put him back! Put him back! I'm not on the skype list. Throwing myself on the floor screaming and pounding like a spoiled 4 year old. Put him back!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Bobby
Sent: July-13-16 9:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Hay I am very angry and very sad that you took Joseph lee off the Skype group. He is a very good and wonderful man. He has bent over back words for all of us including me and this is what you put him through.
Please forgive him. He just made one ma steak.











.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christo de Klerk" <christodeklerk@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Has madness descended on this list? Please, people, do our inboxes have to be filled with all this rubbish. I think it is totally inappropriate to carry on and on and on and on and on ad nauseam about an individual. Can we please get back on track and discuss matters related to NVDA? I am so sick of all this that I am about to leave a list that has been of immense value to me. Please, please, plese, please just stop winging about Joseph lee. Let us agree that for some he is the greatest, for others he is the devil himself and for yet others he is just another nice guy. Please just stop this rubbish now.

Regards

Christo


On 2016/07/14 11:02 AM, michael chopra wrote:

Look, aside from providing the wrong information, there are many other things that he has done. I have to agree, someone said he is not a community person, rather that he is an individual person.
Thank you.
From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 20:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

hello all.
i dont understand whats happenning.
i cant forget the goodness of joseph lee and his goodness and helps for many people including me.
the transcendent and absolute goodness is only Allah not his servant.
and the immaculate people are the prophets and prophet mohammad peace be upon him and his household.
i am shure all people love joseph, i dont understand what happened, but which wrong informations he provided?

On 7/14/16, michael chopra <justforlists689@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm sorry, but have most of you seen the way he does stuff? The fact
that he knowingly gave wrong information and also, that when he was
given the chance, he did not speak up. The groups are better without
him. This is all I have to say on this, and I'm sorry for any distress this may cause.
Thank you.
From Michael.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 18:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Yes, put him back! Even though I'm not on the skype group, I don't
think he should have been kicked out because of what could have been
an honest mistake! None of us are perfect. Joseph has done so much for
us so why ruin his good name.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Arlene
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 9:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Put him back! Put him back! I'm not on the skype list. Throwing myself
on the floor screaming and pounding like a spoiled 4 year old. Put him back!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Bobby
Sent: July-13-16 9:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] joseph lee being a good man

Hay I am very angry and very sad that you took Joseph lee off the
Skype group. He is a very good and wonderful man. He has bent over
back words for all of us including me and this is what you put him through.
Please forgive him. He just made one ma steak.

--
Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel [who] enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes unlawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so [as for] those who believe in him and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, these it is that are the successful.
holy quran, chapter 7, verse 157.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org