Date   

Re: Web Page navigation

Gene
 

I am correct in my description.  I am seeing the page differently.  This may be because of browser settings I'm using or for other reasons.  But if two reliable people differ about the layout of something, it is not correct to assume that one or the other is wrong in the description.  They may be observing a different layout or format with neither being aware of the difference. 
 
Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene and Brian,

 

I have been keeping out of this discussion but watching each of your contributions with interest. I feel I must now correct you Gene. Here is the top half of the web page that results from the URL presented by William in his request for help:

 

----------Extract begins ----------

 

If you feel this email is unsolicited please report it to us.

Trouble viewing this email? View online

Friday 13 May 2016

FOLLOW US

Facebook

Twitter

Linked In

Ince Connect

 

Good morning, William McLachlan

NEWS >

 

----------Extract ends ----------

 

Facebook and Twitter are actually links on the page as I described in my message.

 

Please do not demand that others fail to read a message when you are, in fact, mistaken!

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for free now!

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Gene,

First, what follows here first is a general observation, but one triggered by this very thread.  It is unbelievably frustrating, and probably from both sides, when one person participates virtually entirely by e-mail while another virtually entirely by the web interface to groups.io.  Using the web interface allows you to see the entire thread on a single page and to go back and forth between original material and what you're posting.  That's how I can tell you definitively, and will repost the original message below, that Facebook is and was not in any way involved other than by being mentioned by a later poster.  It's also interesting how many, and you are not one of those, who either subscribe by individual message or digest are not reading what has already been posted before posting themselves in many cases.  Getting the same answer(s) hours, not minutes, apart clearly indicates that the posters of the repeat material have not bothered to take note that what they've offered has already been offered, and often more than once.  This makes for a really crappy online archive and a great deal more difficulty in searching the online archive and getting a more focused pool of results.

The original post was:

------------------------------------------------

Hi,

 

I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item.

 

 

Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.

 

Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this.

 

Regards,

William

------------------------------------------------

 

I have gone to said webpage and perused it via NVDA.  When it loads, if one hits NVDA Key+F7 there are only two links, "Report it" and "View Online" that appear in the elements list of links for this page (using Chrome or Firefox).  When I tried using K at one point the navigation bar links came into play before the articles.

In any case, this is the last comment I'll make on this particular thread on this particular webpage.  There is no one right way to approach this.  Using the NVDA search command is fine as is using the NVDA Elements list. Knowing how to come at things from multiple angles is never a bad thing.  Knowing that once you're on the actual article page that the Elements List with "Headers" selected can save you a bunch of jumping is a big time saver.

Brian
--
Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 

   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    

 


Re: Web Page navigation

Gene
 

Perhaps you made the comments you did about list clutter because you think I am not well aware of previous posts because of how I read mail.  That is not true.  I did misinterpret what the message that mentioned Facebook said but that was a misinterpretation.  On the second point that may have prompted your general comments about list clutter and repetition, This has nothing to do with me not being aware of previous messages.  My results are completely different from yours.  How I read mail isn't the problem.  I see the page exactly as I see any standard web page except, of course, that no headings or controls are present.  The only things on the page are links and text.  All the links on the page show up in the links list, and using the skip links command twice skips me to just above the main content links on the page.  Whether using k or tabbing, I see the same links in the same order and in the links list as well.  Thus we have been discussing completely different renderings of the page for some reason.  And that may be the reason we are disagreeing about the most efficient way to navigate the page. 
 
I'm not sure what produces such different renderings.  I'd have to experiment with different browsers and settings to see if they may play any part in the differences.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

First, what follows here first is a general observation, but one triggered by this very thread.  It is unbelievably frustrating, and probably from both sides, when one person participates virtually entirely by e-mail while another virtually entirely by the web interface to groups.io.  Using the web interface allows you to see the entire thread on a single page and to go back and forth between original material and what you're posting.  That's how I can tell you definitively, and will repost the original message below, that Facebook is and was not in any way involved other than by being mentioned by a later poster.  It's also interesting how many, and you are not one of those, who either subscribe by individual message or digest are not reading what has already been posted before posting themselves in many cases.  Getting the same answer(s) hours, not minutes, apart clearly indicates that the posters of the repeat material have not bothered to take note that what they've offered has already been offered, and often more than once.  This makes for a really crappy online archive and a great deal more difficulty in searching the online archive and getting a more focused pool of results.

The original post was:

------------------------------------------------

Hi,
 
I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item.
 
 
Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.
 
Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this.
 
Regards,

William

------------------------------------------------


I have gone to said webpage and perused it via NVDA.  When it loads, if one hits NVDA Key+F7 there are only two links, "Report it" and "View Online" that appear in the elements list of links for this page (using Chrome or Firefox).  When I tried using K at one point the navigation bar links came into play before the articles.

In any case, this is the last comment I'll make on this particular thread on this particular webpage.  There is no one right way to approach this.  Using the NVDA search command is fine as is using the NVDA Elements list. Knowing how to come at things from multiple angles is never a bad thing.  Knowing that once you're on the actual article page that the Elements List with "Headers" selected can save you a bunch of jumping is a big time saver.

Brian
--
Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Re: mOUSE pOINTER

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi William,

There's a section in the user guide on using the mouse: http://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#toc39

Some of the key ones in terms of your question:

NVDA+M toggles mouse tracking - whether NVDA automatically reads the item under the mouse or not.

This will just read the item under the mouse which may or may not be the same as "reading from the current point onward" depending on exactly where you are.  EG On web pages it will read the current element only.

NVDA+NUMPAD MULTIPLY sets the navigator object (the review cursor) to the object at the position of the mouse.

You may then also need to press NVDA+shift+numpadminus (laptop: NVDA+shift+backspace to move the focus to the current review object if you want to be able to press say NVDA+down arrow to read from the current point.

In some cases, pressing num pad divide (laptop: NVDA+[) may get you where you want - that's the keystroke to click the left mouse button, however that will click on whatever the mouse is over so it may activate a link or press a button.  Useful if that's what you wanted, but not necessarily if you just wanted to move to that object to read what was there or around there.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:30 PM, willmac@... <willmac@...> wrote:
Hi,
Is there some simple NVDA key short cut which will have NVDA speak from where the cursor or mouse pointer is located?
 
Regards,
 
William




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Alva Braille display and NVDA

Arlene
 

Hmmm! You may have to update to 6 series. I got that not long ago. Yu may have to call the maker to give you an updated disk.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nightowl
Sent: May-12-16 2:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Alva Braille display and NVDA

 

Hi,

 

I am trying to get my old Alva 570 Braille display to work with NVDA - so far without success. It just says Waiting for Connection. I have lost the original software CD that came with the Alva, so am using brltty. Maybe I got the wrong version of brltty. I would be grateful for suggestions on how to make the Alva work with NVDA as my hearing is not so good nowadays and I would like to make more use of Braille. Also, if anyone has the software CD for the Alva 570 and is willing to upload it somewhere for me to download, I would be most grateful. I can't seem to find Alva drivers, etc anywhere on the internet.

 

Thank you.

 

Nightowl


Re: Web Page navigation

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Gene and Brian,

 

I have been keeping out of this discussion but watching each of your contributions with interest. I feel I must now correct you Gene. Here is the top half of the web page that results from the URL presented by William in his request for help:

 

----------Extract begins ----------

 

If you feel this email is unsolicited please report it to us.

Trouble viewing this email? View online

Friday 13 May 2016

FOLLOW US

Facebook

Twitter

Linked In

Ince Connect

 

Good morning, William McLachlan

NEWS >

 

----------Extract ends ----------

 

Facebook and Twitter are actually links on the page as I described in my message.

 

Please do not demand that others fail to read a message when you are, in fact, mistaken!

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for free now!

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Gene,

First, what follows here first is a general observation, but one triggered by this very thread.  It is unbelievably frustrating, and probably from both sides, when one person participates virtually entirely by e-mail while another virtually entirely by the web interface to groups.io.  Using the web interface allows you to see the entire thread on a single page and to go back and forth between original material and what you're posting.  That's how I can tell you definitively, and will repost the original message below, that Facebook is and was not in any way involved other than by being mentioned by a later poster.  It's also interesting how many, and you are not one of those, who either subscribe by individual message or digest are not reading what has already been posted before posting themselves in many cases.  Getting the same answer(s) hours, not minutes, apart clearly indicates that the posters of the repeat material have not bothered to take note that what they've offered has already been offered, and often more than once.  This makes for a really crappy online archive and a great deal more difficulty in searching the online archive and getting a more focused pool of results.

The original post was:

------------------------------------------------

Hi,

 

I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item.

 

 

Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.

 

Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this.

 

Regards,

William

------------------------------------------------

 

I have gone to said webpage and perused it via NVDA.  When it loads, if one hits NVDA Key+F7 there are only two links, "Report it" and "View Online" that appear in the elements list of links for this page (using Chrome or Firefox).  When I tried using K at one point the navigation bar links came into play before the articles.

In any case, this is the last comment I'll make on this particular thread on this particular webpage.  There is no one right way to approach this.  Using the NVDA search command is fine as is using the NVDA Elements list. Knowing how to come at things from multiple angles is never a bad thing.  Knowing that once you're on the actual article page that the Elements List with "Headers" selected can save you a bunch of jumping is a big time saver.

Brian
--
Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 

   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    

 


Re: Web Page navigation

Kenny Dog <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi

When I looked it looks as though the links refer to a article. To go into any of the articles  when you hear NVDA say the articles name then link, then press the enter key. When it takes you to that page use the ctrl key + the home key to take you to the top of the page.
You can also use the up or down arrow keys to go linne by line. The previous email looks as mentioned a news letter that links to articles on a web page.

Are you using a desk top pc or a lap top? as the say all command might be different.
It is not really until you go into a article there might be a couple of extra single letter navigation keys, not really a good web page.

Gene nz


On 13-May-16 12:31 AM, willmac@... wrote:
Hi Gene,
 
Thanks. I will work on this and see how I manage. First attempts are a bit discouraging.
Am not getting same responses as you suggest.
Regards,
 
William
 
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...>
Sent: 2016/05/12 11:03:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
Hi William

it does not look as though you have many single letter navigation keys you can use even in the news letter.

The letter k will take you to any links in the email. Where the links take you to another web page on the one or 2 I went to you could use the letter H to jump down by headings, k for links and g for graphics. If you are using a desktop pc the nvda key and the down arrow key will read out the page for you. If you are also new to browsing using the alt key + the left arrow key will take you back a page and the alt and right arrow key will take you forwards a page.

This is only if you have been to those pages first.

For other webpages you might be able to use the full list from the user manual this will change from website to website.

The part in the user manual is 6.1. Single Letter Navigation

Gene nz


On 12-May-16 8:18 PM, willmac@... wrote:
Hi,
 
I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item.
 
 
Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.
 
Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this.
 
Regards,

William

-- 
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net

-- 
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net


Re: Web Page navigation

 

Gene,

First, what follows here first is a general observation, but one triggered by this very thread.  It is unbelievably frustrating, and probably from both sides, when one person participates virtually entirely by e-mail while another virtually entirely by the web interface to groups.io.  Using the web interface allows you to see the entire thread on a single page and to go back and forth between original material and what you're posting.  That's how I can tell you definitively, and will repost the original message below, that Facebook is and was not in any way involved other than by being mentioned by a later poster.  It's also interesting how many, and you are not one of those, who either subscribe by individual message or digest are not reading what has already been posted before posting themselves in many cases.  Getting the same answer(s) hours, not minutes, apart clearly indicates that the posters of the repeat material have not bothered to take note that what they've offered has already been offered, and often more than once.  This makes for a really crappy online archive and a great deal more difficulty in searching the online archive and getting a more focused pool of results.

The original post was:

------------------------------------------------

Hi,
 
I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item.
 
 
Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.
 
Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this.
 
Regards,

William

------------------------------------------------


I have gone to said webpage and perused it via NVDA.  When it loads, if one hits NVDA Key+F7 there are only two links, "Report it" and "View Online" that appear in the elements list of links for this page (using Chrome or Firefox).  When I tried using K at one point the navigation bar links came into play before the articles.

In any case, this is the last comment I'll make on this particular thread on this particular webpage.  There is no one right way to approach this.  Using the NVDA search command is fine as is using the NVDA Elements list. Knowing how to come at things from multiple angles is never a bad thing.  Knowing that once you're on the actual article page that the Elements List with "Headers" selected can save you a bunch of jumping is a big time saver.

Brian
--
Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Re: Web Page navigation

Gene
 

I thought the person was discussing another site.  I was wrong.  I'd have to see his message again to see what was said.  There are references to Facebook and Twitter on the page and I think he was discussing those, not saying that they are not present. 
 
I don't know how you are looking at the page.  In NVDA, and I assume other screen-readers there are six links before material of interest begins.  It is more efficient to simply use the skip links command twice from the top of the page then to use k or tab to move to the first article of interest.  And experimenting with the skip blocks of links commands on different pages and comparing what it does to the headings commands shows that the skip blocks of links command may be a more efficient way to look for something than moving by headings on a number of pages. 
 
If you want to move through links once you are on the first item of interest, tab and k work well.  On some sites with other structures interspersed among links, k might be desired and on other sites, like this one, it doesn't matter because the page is just links and text between many of the links. 
 
Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

          This has nothing at all to do with Facebook.  Another poster mentioned that if you use the 'K' key to jump from link to link on a page you're likely to hear things such as Facebook, Twitter, etc.  In this particular case, even those "regulars" are not present.

           The link that was already pasted is:  http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D

           Since you now know that "Good Morning" is a text landmark it's not fair to try to use that as the "let me explore this page with nothing known" technique.  Try to do so and see how unlikely it is to find useful content via search unless you know the actual nature of the day's articles in this newsletter webpage.

Brian


Re: Web Page navigation

 

Gene,

          This has nothing at all to do with Facebook.  Another poster mentioned that if you use the 'K' key to jump from link to link on a page you're likely to hear things such as Facebook, Twitter, etc.  In this particular case, even those "regulars" are not present.

           The link that was already pasted is:  http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D

           Since you now know that "Good Morning" is a text landmark it's not fair to try to use that as the "let me explore this page with nothing known" technique.  Try to do so and see how unlikely it is to find useful content via search unless you know the actual nature of the day's articles in this newsletter webpage.

Brian


Re: Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!

P. Otter
 

thanks for the link it works fine!
cheers
paul otter
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!

That is the site of the developers.  That site doesn't have the new version because the developers do nothing with Webvisum except leave the site up and the add on active.
 
I gave a link to the Blind
Bargains article which explains how to download and install the add on and provides a link to it.
 
Gene
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!

Just want to ensure that the site is correct. Below is the link:
http://www.webvisum.com/

Robert Mendoza
On 5/12/2016 8:32 AM, Robert Mendoza wrote:

I tried earlier to install the said addons but no luck at all. I pressed to allow it by pressing Alt plus A but, it keeps me prompted such dialog in Mozilla Firefox, and currently running version (46.0.1)

Robert Mendoza
On 5/12/2016 8:12 AM, Gene wrote:
That's good.
 
Gene
----- original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!

Well Gene I did download and install it yesterday. Its working well.


On 5/11/2016 9:35 AM, Gene wrote:
It is valid to raise questions about something if you don't know whether the author is trustworthy.  Someone could design a malicious add on.  But instead of just expressing doubt or a question, asking for more information from the list would make much more sense.  The person raising doubts may not know of james Schole's (spelling) reputation.  But once informed, the reputation speaks for itself. 
 
There is no criminality nor slander nor libel involved.  But instead of just expressing doubts, reliable information should be sought.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!

How absurd! How can one accuse someone of malicious intentions without
evidence of that whatsoever? I tell you... One must be quite arrogant to
do so!

If I were the person accused, I would simply take the accuser to courts
in no time at all...

I think one should be very careful with the rumors one spreads about others.


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 11/05/2016 03:54, Kwork ha scritto:
> Hi,
> The couple of times I've used the add-on since the recent signing have
> been met with success. I've known James on and off for a few years
> now, and find him to be a decent human being, and an end computer user
> out of the UK just trying to help keep life as accessible for us as he
> can with his programming knowledge.
> Travis
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2016 12:46 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!
>
> I don't know him in a personal sense either.  I know his reputation. 
> I follow two blind technology discussion lists aside from this one and
> I know that many people are using it.  I haven't seen one complaint. 
> Perhaps others will vouch for him and the add on.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@...>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2016 2:37 PM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!
>
> Good. Glad you aren't giving me a hard time. Mods shouldn't do so on
> any list list anyway unless the mod he/she is a complete a$$$ by
> nature. I just simply don't trust it that's all. I guess one way to
> see if it truly works under FF 46 is to download it. I don't know the
> guy. I guess that's part of why I'm hesitant to get it.
>
>
> On 5/10/2016 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:
>> So you are suspicious that James Scholes is intentionally turning the
>> add on into something malicious?  Based on his reputation, that's
>> just groundless.
>> I haven't checked to see who else has written about the add on but
>> Blind Bargains has.  They are a respected source and I hardly think
>> they would wrecklessly provide information about add ons or other
>> such items.
>> Saying that's just my opinion, as though all opinions are equal is
>> not correct.  You provide no grouds for your opinion except
>> suspicion.  I have provided the reputation of the person who had the
>> add on signed, it's excellent, and the reputation of a source that
>> spread information about the add on.
>> I'm not trying to give you a hard time but, given the amount of
>> interest in Webvisum, I want to discourage unfounded suspicion.
>> gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@...>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2016 2:14 PM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly
>> well!
>>
>> Well OK this is your opinion. It was James Sholes, but still I don't
>> care what rigamarole he whent though to sign it. Chris Taught the
>> former programmer of the Qube is in the process of writing a CAPTIA
>> solver. I'm hoping to see it's release soon. It will work with FF, IE
>> 11, and IOS later on down the road.
>>
>>
>> On 5/10/2016 3:03 PM, Gene wrote:
>>> The, as you characterize it, convoluted add on is not one.  it was
>>> taken through the signing procedure by a respected and trusted
>>> member of the blind computer using community.  Nothing was changed
>>> except that it is signed in a way Firefox recognizes as legitimate. 
>>> I don't remember the name now, but numerous members of this
>>> community will vouch for him.  There is no reason to believe the add
>>> on is unsafe.
>>> Gene
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@...>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2016 1:44 PM
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly
>>> well!
>>>
>>> If you try and download it off the Web Visum site FF will sill prevent
>>> you from downloading a unverified add-on. I don't trust this as Brian
>>> said "convoluted add-on".
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/10/2016 9:12 AM, Mallard wrote:
>>> > Oh, that's really great! Finally! We won't have to worry about losing
>>> > it any longer then...
>>> >
>>> > Ciao,
>>> >
>>> > Ollie
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Il 10/05/2016 12:53, Ron Canazzi ha scritto:
>>> >>
>>> >> Somebody signed it through the convoluted process of doing that for
>>> >> Mozilla and it now works.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 5/10/2016 6:21 AM, Mallard wrote:
>>> >>> Hello all,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I've just updated to Firefox 46.0.1, thinking that Webvisum would
>>> >>> stop working. I was ready to set up a portable of an older version,
>>> >>> but... SURPRISE! Webvisum is working as usual...
>>> >>> Good news!
>>> >>> Ciao,
>>> >>> Ollie
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>>> >> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>>> >> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>







Re: Web Page navigation

Gene
 

Since I don't use Facebook, I can't comment on the page and the efficiency of using the k command.  I said I thought there would be a more efficient method but I may be wrong.  But aside from that, it's worth pointing out that when searching, you don't have to type unwieldy strings.  Usually, typing four letters of a word that you are not likely to find often on the web page is sufficient.  At times, typing five lettters is needed to avoid too many results.  In this case, it's very unlikely that either good or morning would appear on the page before that text.  So typing either good or morn should be sufficient.
 
Gene
----- Original Message =----

Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

            We've been round this before, and I am 100% with you on teaching the search command.  The fact remains that I can actually see this web page and how strangely its laid out.  The only good text marker before the article links is "Good Morning."  Having to hit NVDA Key+CTRL+F and typing that in is, to me, far more work intensive than bringing up the elements list, which happens to have only 2 links on the list above the first article link.

            There are times when there is data available that makes a specific course of action, in my opinion, preferable to using general techniques.  This is one of those times.

            I am not always in instructor mode and am sometimes in "get the information as quickly as possible" mode.  It's clear that the general format of this webpage will remain static, and I picked what I believe to be the quickest way to access it on a daily basis.  This appears to be something the original poster wants to be able to access routinely, and I responded according to the stated need.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Re: Web Page navigation

 

Gene,

            We've been round this before, and I am 100% with you on teaching the search command.  The fact remains that I can actually see this web page and how strangely its laid out.  The only good text marker before the article links is "Good Morning."  Having to hit NVDA Key+CTRL+F and typing that in is, to me, far more work intensive than bringing up the elements list, which happens to have only 2 links on the list above the first article link.

            There are times when there is data available that makes a specific course of action, in my opinion, preferable to using general techniques.  This is one of those times.

            I am not always in instructor mode and am sometimes in "get the information as quickly as possible" mode.  It's clear that the general format of this webpage will remain static, and I picked what I believe to be the quickest way to access it on a daily basis.  This appears to be something the original poster wants to be able to access routinely, and I responded according to the stated need.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Re: Web Page navigation

Gene
 

I would think that there is a more efficient way to find the first link to a blog.  Perhaps there is wording on the page immediately before the first post that is reliably on the page whenever you load it.  See my previous message about the search command.
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

William,

 

I would suggest you press the letter “k” on the main keyboard. This will move from link to link. The first ones will say Facebook and Twitter, etc. keep going until you hear a news topic that you would like to know more about. Then press the down-arrow key to see how the blog begins. If you would like to read more just press the enter key and the full article should open.

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

 

I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for free now!

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

I don't know what you are searching for so I can't comment speciffically.  If you know what you want to find, then of course, the find command is very useful.  If you aren't sure, it may not be, at least looking in that way.  In this case, you may have to use a method I've described to move to the beginning of articles.  Then if you want to move from article to article. tab through the links. 

 

You will then skip all explanatory text.

 

gene

----- Original Message -----

From: willmac@...

Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 7:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Hi Gene,

 

Thanks. I will work on this and see how I manage. First attempts are a bit discouraging.

Am not getting same responses as you suggest.

Regards,

 

William

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...>

Sent: 2016/05/12 11:03:11 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Hi William

it does not look as though you have many single letter navigation keys you can use even in the news letter.

The letter k will take you to any links in the email. Where the links take you to another web page on the one or 2 I went to you could use the letter H to jump down by headings, k for links and g for graphics. If you are using a desktop pc the nvda key and the down arrow key will read out the page for you. If you are also new to browsing using the alt key + the left arrow key will take you back a page and the alt and right arrow key will take you forwards a page.

This is only if you have been to those pages first.

For other webpages you might be able to use the full list from the user manual this will change from website to website.

The part in the user manual is 6.1. Single Letter Navigation

Gene nz

On 12-May-16 8:18 PM, willmac@... wrote:

Hi,

 

I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item.

 

 

Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.

 

Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this.

 

Regards,

William



-- 
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net


Re: Web Page navigation

Gene
 

I'm trying to do both because so many blind people don't use the Internet eefficiently.  In addition, it is more efficient in this case to use the skip links command as I described and then tab or use the letter k to move from link to link.  The links list doesn't have any way to skip the navigation links. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Re: Web Page navigation

 

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Re: Web Page navigation

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

William,

 

I would suggest you press the letter “k” on the main keyboard. This will move from link to link. The first ones will say Facebook and Twitter, etc. keep going until you hear a news topic that you would like to know more about. Then press the down-arrow key to see how the blog begins. If you would like to read more just press the enter key and the full article should open.

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

 

I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for free now!

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

I don't know what you are searching for so I can't comment speciffically.  If you know what you want to find, then of course, the find command is very useful.  If you aren't sure, it may not be, at least looking in that way.  In this case, you may have to use a method I've described to move to the beginning of articles.  Then if you want to move from article to article. tab through the links. 

 

You will then skip all explanatory text.

 

gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 7:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Hi Gene,

 

Thanks. I will work on this and see how I manage. First attempts are a bit discouraging.

Am not getting same responses as you suggest.

Regards,

 

William

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...>

Sent: 2016/05/12 11:03:11 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Hi William

it does not look as though you have many single letter navigation keys you can use even in the news letter.

The letter k will take you to any links in the email. Where the links take you to another web page on the one or 2 I went to you could use the letter H to jump down by headings, k for links and g for graphics. If you are using a desktop pc the nvda key and the down arrow key will read out the page for you. If you are also new to browsing using the alt key + the left arrow key will take you back a page and the alt and right arrow key will take you forwards a page.

This is only if you have been to those pages first.

For other webpages you might be able to use the full list from the user manual this will change from website to website.

The part in the user manual is 6.1. Single Letter Navigation

Gene nz

On 12-May-16 8:18 PM, willmac@... wrote:

Hi,

 

I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item.

 

 

Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.

 

Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this.

 

Regards,

William



-- 
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net


Re: Web Page navigation

Gene
 

Saying that is the easiest is a matter of opinion.  Also, using the links list on unfamiliar pages and not using techniques such as I described, doesn't allow you to interact directly with the page.  That doesn't allow for development of the kinds of skills I described and may make difficult pages more difficult to work with.  In my opinion, teaching use of the links list before other direct methods of working with web pages is a real disservice to blind Internet users.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

The web page to which the link was provided is unusual in that it is, for all intents and purposes, a page entirely of links to various articles in the newsletter.  The easiest way to see what those are is to to an NDVA+F7 to get an elements list and then go through link by link to listen for the article, or articles, you may wish to read and then activate same.   Virtually every article title link is also followed by a "Read more" link, which simply takes you to the same spot as the main link itself, and there are some really weird link titles that are related to advertising on the page.  Once you've reached the "Front Page" link you know the list of article links is done.  There are no headings or landmarks on this page.

If you select a given article the easiest way to get to the article text itself once the page is loaded is to bring up the elements list again, use headings elements instead of links, and hunt for the title text of the article on that page then activate that.  This lets you skip past all the navigation links and the like.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Re: Web Page navigation

 

The web page to which the link was provided is unusual in that it is, for all intents and purposes, a page entirely of links to various articles in the newsletter.  The easiest way to see what those are is to to an NDVA+F7 to get an elements list and then go through link by link to listen for the article, or articles, you may wish to read and then activate same.   Virtually every article title link is also followed by a "Read more" link, which simply takes you to the same spot as the main link itself, and there are some really weird link titles that are related to advertising on the page.  Once you've reached the "Front Page" link you know the list of article links is done.  There are no headings or landmarks on this page.

If you select a given article the easiest way to get to the article text itself once the page is loaded is to bring up the elements list again, use headings elements instead of links, and hunt for the title text of the article on that page then activate that.  This lets you skip past all the navigation links and the like.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Re: Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!

P. Otter
 

hi, i agree, it works beautifull
thanks!!!

cheers
paul otter

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mallard" <mallard@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!


I downloaded and installed it, replacing the previous one I had, and it works a treat...

Thanks Gene.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 12/05/2016 14:17, Gene ha scritto:
That is the site of the developers. That site doesn't have the new version because the developers do nothing with Webvisum except leave the site up and the add on active.
I gave a link to the Blind
Bargains article which explains how to download and install the add on and provides a link to it.
http://www.blindbargains.com/bargains.php?m=15142
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Robert Mendoza <mailto:lowvisiontek@...>
*Sent:* Thursday, May 12, 2016 2:58 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!

Just want to ensure that the site is correct. Below is the link:
http://www.webvisum.com/

Robert Mendoza
On 5/12/2016 8:32 AM, Robert Mendoza wrote:

I tried earlier to install the said addons but no luck at all. I pressed to allow it by pressing Alt plus A but, it keeps me prompted such dialog in Mozilla Firefox, and currently running version (46.0.1)

Robert Mendoza
On 5/12/2016 8:12 AM, Gene wrote:
That's good.
Gene
*----- original Message -----*
*From:* Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@...>
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 11, 2016 10:53 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!

Well Gene I did download and install it yesterday. Its working well.


On 5/11/2016 9:35 AM, Gene wrote:
It is valid to raise questions about something if you don't know whether the author is trustworthy. Someone could design a malicious add on. But instead of just expressing doubt or a question, asking for more information from the list would make much more sense. The person raising doubts may not know of james Schole's (spelling) reputation. But once informed, the reputation speaks for itself.
There is no criminality nor slander nor libel involved. But instead of just expressing doubts, reliable information should be sought.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Mallard <mailto:mallard@...>
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 11, 2016 8:29 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working perfectly well!

How absurd! How can one accuse someone of malicious intentions without
evidence of that whatsoever? I tell you... One must be quite arrogant to
do so!

If I were the person accused, I would simply take the accuser to courts
in no time at all...

I think one should be very careful with the rumors one spreads about others.


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 11/05/2016 03:54, Kwork ha scritto:
Hi,
The couple of times I've used the add-on since the recent signing
have
been met with success. I've known James on and off for a few years
now, and find him to be a decent human being, and an end computer
user
out of the UK just trying to help keep life as accessible for us
as he
can with his programming knowledge.
Travis
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2016 12:46 PM
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working
perfectly well!

I don't know him in a personal sense either. I know his reputation.
I follow two blind technology discussion lists aside from this
one and
I know that many people are using it. I haven't seen one complaint.
Perhaps others will vouch for him and the add on.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@...>
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2016 2:37 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working
perfectly well!

Good. Glad you aren't giving me a hard time. Mods shouldn't do so on
any list list anyway unless the mod he/she is a complete a$$$ by
nature. I just simply don't trust it that's all. I guess one way to
see if it truly works under FF 46 is to download it. I don't know
the
guy. I guess that's part of why I'm hesitant to get it.


On 5/10/2016 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:
So you are suspicious that James Scholes is intentionally
turning the
add on into something malicious? Based on his reputation, that's
just groundless.
I haven't checked to see who else has written about the add on but
Blind Bargains has. They are a respected source and I hardly think
they would wrecklessly provide information about add ons or other
such items.
Saying that's just my opinion, as though all opinions are equal is
not correct. You provide no grouds for your opinion except
suspicion. I have provided the reputation of the person who had
the
add on signed, it's excellent, and the reputation of a source that
spread information about the add on.
I'm not trying to give you a hard time but, given the amount of
interest in Webvisum, I want to discourage unfounded suspicion.
gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@...>
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2016 2:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working
perfectly
well!

Well OK this is your opinion. It was James Sholes, but still I
don't
care what rigamarole he whent though to sign it. Chris Taught the
former programmer of the Qube is in the process of writing a CAPTIA
solver. I'm hoping to see it's release soon. It will work with
FF, IE
11, and IOS later on down the road.


On 5/10/2016 3:03 PM, Gene wrote:
The, as you characterize it, convoluted add on is not one. it was
taken through the signing procedure by a respected and trusted
member of the blind computer using community. Nothing was changed
except that it is signed in a way Firefox recognizes as
legitimate.
I don't remember the name now, but numerous members of this
community will vouch for him. There is no reason to believe
the add
on is unsafe.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@...>
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2016 1:44 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Firefox 46.0.1 and Webvisum: Working
perfectly
well!

If you try and download it off the Web Visum site FF will sill
prevent
you from downloading a unverified add-on. I don't trust this as
Brian
said "convoluted add-on".


On 5/10/2016 9:12 AM, Mallard wrote:
Oh, that's really great! Finally! We won't have to worry
about losing
it any longer then...

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 10/05/2016 12:53, Ron Canazzi ha scritto:

Somebody signed it through the convoluted process of doing
that for
Mozilla and it now works.



On 5/10/2016 6:21 AM, Mallard wrote:
Hello all,

I've just updated to Firefox 46.0.1, thinking that Webvisum
would
stop working. I was ready to set up a portable of an older
version,
but... SURPRISE! Webvisum is working as usual...
Good news!
Ciao,
Ollie



--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana
boat!"






Re: Web Page navigation

Gene
 

It is a copy of a newsletter.  I don't know how many newsletters use the kind of headings that screen-readers can detect.  Nothing has been stripped out.  However the newsletter is written, it doesn't use headers.  And if it did, since most items are links to articles, headings wouldn't help much unless specific departments or articles that repeatedly deal with the same subject from week to week are headings and nothing else.  Having links be headings would be worthless.  You would simply have another way to move through links in that case.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Yes I was responding to the direct question about using single keys.
Strangely some of the other pages on that site are fine, its as if the main
page has had its headers stripped out for some weird reason. I'm not a great
fan of sites that put read more all over the place as pretty soon you have
tabs open all over the place to find simple things out. Why not put a digest
on the page to start with.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation


If things like headings and the skip blocks of links command don't work,
look through the page.  See what you might want to use the find command for.
Itt's helpful and useful when pages have useable headings but all sorts of
people design internet pages.  It is important to know how to use the
Internet without relying on the kindness of strangers.  The find command
control NVDA key f, is one of the most valuable and undertaught and
underused commands for effective navigation.
On a newsletter I receive, there are no headinggs.  But article links and
descriptions begin immediately after the word placeholder.
I search for place and I then start tabbing through the article links.  I
tab instead of down arrow so I won't see all the explanatary text for
articles I'm not interested in.  I intentionally looked for something that
was repetitive and reliavle that would be in the same place on the page and
would reliably take me to just about where articles begin.  I then used the
search command when working with the daily newsletter.

You may find something near whatever you want to find on this or other
pages.  Also, on many web pages such as newspaper pages, a good way to find
a section of the paper is to do a search.  Make sure, in this case and in
general, that you are at the top of the page.  Then search for something you
know is there from previously looking at the page or for something you think
is a good guesss if you want to try not looking at the page.  For example,
if the page has and editorials link, searching for edito will take you to
it.  You may have to repeat the search by using NVDA key f to get to the
right place.  Usually, typing four and sometimes the first five letters of
what you are searching for will move you the the word reliably.  There is no
need to type long phrases when looking for the kinds of things I am
describing.

If you watch for patterns, you can save lots of time on some unfamiliar
pages by not having to look through them.  Two examples are:
If you are on the home page of a radio station, and all you want to do is
listen to the station, most such pages have the word listen in the link.
So, making sure you are at the top of the page, searching and repeating the
search, if necessary, will move you to the link.  Most web sites use the
word contact in the link for writing to the site.  That's another example.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation


The web page is rubbish, no headings to navigate with.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: <willmac@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 9:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] Web Page navigation


Hi,

I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak
continually on any given item.

The following is the URL
http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D

Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.

Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys
necessary to enable me to do this.

Regards,

William