Date   

ESPEAK

Christo Vorster
 

Hi list

 

I do not necessarily agree with the idea to do away with ESpeak. I believe that is a case of "horses for causes."

 

In South Africa, more specifically, at the Institute for the Blind in Worcester where I am a lecturer, we extensively use ESpeak to read Afrikaans. And may I say, the quality of ESpeak's Afrikaans is actually very good.

 

I won't mind if the developers do away with ESpeak, but before that happens I want definite proof that the replacement program has, at least, the same quality, preferably, better.

 

Cheers

 

Christo


AW: AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Eigeldinger Simon <simon.eigeldinger@...>
 

Agreed on this.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
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Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Brian's Mail list account [mailto:bglists@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 11:46
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

I've not heard much change in the English side of it. I use Quincy. It
depends very much on language though as we know many from the US find Espeak
us does not sound american enough.

Its a very hard thing to pin down
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eigeldinger Simon" <simon.eigeldinger@...>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:56 AM
Subject: AW: [nvda] AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with
the new Master and Next Versions?


Hi,

Realy?
Seems i got used to espeak so much that i even not notice that.
I use the german language and max as the voice variant.

Greetings,
Simon


Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur
für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: enes sarıbaş [mailto:enes.saribas@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 10:40
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with
the new Master and Next Versions?

hi,
yes, it does sound very different.

On 4/20/2016 8:28 AM, Eigeldinger Simon wrote:
Hi David,

I have the feeling it sounds the same as before.
Using espeak ng now on 3 computers and they seem not to have changed.



Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und
nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: David Goldfield [mailto:david.goldfield@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 01:32
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new
Master and Next Versions?

Hello.
I noticed that ESpeak has a more harsher sound to it with the latest
next and master versions, compared to 2016.1 and earlier releases. I
have filed a ticket about this and it seems like some people are
noticing it on some machines while others are not. I suppose I can get
used to it but I find it just so much harsher and am wondering what
others who are running these versions perceive?







Re: AW: AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Enida Skaljo
 

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com

On 20. travnja 2016. 10:56:21 "Eigeldinger Simon" <simon.eigeldinger@...> wrote:

Hi,

Realy?
Seems i got used to espeak so much that i even not notice that.
I use the german language and max as the voice variant.

Greetings,
Simon


Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: enes sarıbaş [mailto:enes.saribas@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 10:40
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

hi,
yes, it does sound very different.

On 4/20/2016 8:28 AM, Eigeldinger Simon wrote:
Hi David,

I have the feeling it sounds the same as before.
Using espeak ng now on 3 computers and they seem not to have changed.



Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: David Goldfield [mailto:david.goldfield@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 01:32
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Hello.
I noticed that ESpeak has a more harsher sound to it with the latest
next and master versions, compared to 2016.1 and earlier releases. I
have filed a ticket about this and it seems like some people are
noticing it on some machines while others are not. I suppose I can get
used to it but I find it just so much harsher and am wondering what
others who are running these versions perceive?











Re: AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

I've not heard much change in the English side of it. I use Quincy. It depends very much on language though as we know many from the US find Espeak us does not sound american enough.

Its a very hard thing to pin down
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eigeldinger Simon" <simon.eigeldinger@...>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:56 AM
Subject: AW: [nvda] AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?


Hi,

Realy?
Seems i got used to espeak so much that i even not notice that.
I use the german language and max as the voice variant.

Greetings,
Simon


Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: enes sarıbaş [mailto:enes.saribas@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 10:40
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

hi,
yes, it does sound very different.

On 4/20/2016 8:28 AM, Eigeldinger Simon wrote:
Hi David,

I have the feeling it sounds the same as before.
Using espeak ng now on 3 computers and they seem not to have changed.



Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: David Goldfield [mailto:david.goldfield@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 01:32
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Hello.
I noticed that ESpeak has a more harsher sound to it with the latest
next and master versions, compared to 2016.1 and earlier releases. I
have filed a ticket about this and it seems like some people are
noticing it on some machines while others are not. I suppose I can get
used to it but I find it just so much harsher and am wondering what
others who are running these versions perceive?







Re: voice question

Gene
 

Just because it is developed by Microsoft does not mean it is compatible with newer versions of Windows if it is too old.  I don’t know if installing a version of SAPI that is too old might damage something in new or recent versions of Windows.  But you can’t assume when you install something like that that is  like eighteen or twenty years old. 
 
Gene
 

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] voice question
 
It's freakin' SAPI. I seriously doubt that it's going to damage windows in any way. After all, wasn't SAPI created by Microsoft?


Thanks,
Ari

> On Apr 19, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>
> Well I have old realspeak voices, speech platform is free.
> Sapi4 stuff can still be installed so ms and lh voices will still work.
> While I wouldn't recomend it if you can get the home page reader 3.02 demo there are fully working viavoices.
> The reason I don't recomend it is that even in old xp their installers didn't always work to remove them later.
> Finally if you do have version 7 of windoweyes maybe later their version of eloquence is on the disk its a sapi4 program and its legal as far as I know.
> However, I am wary of loading older synths, and older things even the ms sapi5.1 synths as I have heard that some of the old resource kits can do bad things to the os.
> For nvda I'd actually be inclined to spend the cash for the acapella nvda voices, they are specially configured for nvda and you get access to every voice for the 1 price and that is an attraction for me that I may take up.
>
>
>
>> On 20/04/2016 9:39 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm using the e-speak synthesizer and it's really great. Anna is the only
>> sapi 5 voice that comes with windows 7 but you can buy more voices.
>>
>> Rosemarie
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jamie Prater [mailto:jdprater@...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 1:56 PM
>> To: nvda@groups.io
>> Subject: [nvda] voice question
>>
>> Hi, is Anna the only voice you can use with nvda unless you purchase more? I
>> only have Microsoft voice Anna as my only voice option and would like
>> something a bit better.  Thanks for any help and have a blessed day. PS: I'm
>> using the latest nvda with windows 7 and am very very much a beginner and
>> know very little about nvda.  Thanks again and have a blessed day.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>
>
>




Re: installation failure, still

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

Did you say that it used to work?
If not then I'd be suspicious that Vista has not got the latest service pack installed.

Not having anything running Vista here, that is the best I can offer you.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "marvin kotler" <m.kotler53@...>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 8:45 AM
Subject: [nvda] installation failure, still


Good evening/morning list. This is Marv here. First, I am running a laptop with the latest nvda file and vista home premium. I cannot get nvda to install. I keep getting a failure message in the log file. I really does not tell me very much. Any ideas on what I might try would be appreciated; thanks in advance.


Re: Anyone used Portable apps.com with NVDA?

Mr. Wong Chi Wai <cwwong.pro@...>
 

Oh really? Let me check about the setting, thanks.


Re: Anyone used Portable apps.com with NVDA?

 

aah ok, a friend of mine uses portable apps.com I may try to look at this.

On 20/04/2016 9:26 p.m., Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:
Hi, there is a setting to turn on accessibility mode in the Portable Apps.com setting, which, after turning it on, you can select apps to install normally.


Re: Anyone used Portable apps.com with NVDA?

 

Hi, there is a setting to turn on accessibility mode in the Portable Apps.com setting, which, after turning it on, you can select apps to install normally.


Anyone used Portable apps.com with NVDA?

Mr. Wong Chi Wai <cwwong.pro@...>
 

Hi,

I have problem in selecting apps from the portable apps.com software interface.

When first launch or later, you can select some apps to download as portable but it seems it cannot be selected by pressing space bar....

Any advice? thanks.


AW: AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Eigeldinger Simon <simon.eigeldinger@...>
 

Hi,

Realy?
Seems i got used to espeak so much that i even not notice that.
I use the german language and max as the voice variant.

Greetings,
Simon


Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: enes sarıbaş [mailto:enes.saribas@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 10:40
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

hi,
yes, it does sound very different.

On 4/20/2016 8:28 AM, Eigeldinger Simon wrote:
Hi David,

I have the feeling it sounds the same as before.
Using espeak ng now on 3 computers and they seem not to have changed.



Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: David Goldfield [mailto:david.goldfield@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 01:32
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Hello.
I noticed that ESpeak has a more harsher sound to it with the latest
next and master versions, compared to 2016.1 and earlier releases. I
have filed a ticket about this and it seems like some people are
noticing it on some machines while others are not. I suppose I can get
used to it but I find it just so much harsher and am wondering what
others who are running these versions perceive?







LIST UNDER EMERGENCY

Christo Vorster
 

Hello Joseph, and list

 

I am one of the guilty parties and wish to apologise if my posts was out of line as far as this list is concerned. I will refrain from off topic discussions in futere.

 

Having said that, I support the suggestion of a possible sub-list to be used for off topic chats.

 

Cheers

 

Christo


Re: IMPORTANT: This list is now under emergency mode #adminnotice

Christo Vorster
 

Hello Joseph, and list

 

I am one of the guilty parties and wish to apologise if my posts was out of line as far as this list is concerned. I will refrain from off topic discussions in futere.

 

Having said that, I support the suggestion of a possible sub-list to be used for off topic chats.

 

Cheers

 

Christo

 

From: Joseph Lee [mailto:joseph.lee22590@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 20 April 2016 8:04 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] IMPORTANT: This list is now under emergency mode #AdminNotice #ModNotice

 

Dear members of the NVDA community and members of this forum:

 

First, thank you for your valuable posts for the past few days.

 

It has been brought to our attention that we’re straying way off topic from the purpose of this forum, stemming from a discussion that the moderator has intervened. A few hours later, someone started discussing a topic that didn’t fit the subject line to a point where we’ve started discussing other topics.

 

For the past few hours, Joseph Lee (the moderator/associate owner) was debating whether to declare an emergency, a first of its kind for this forum. An emergency mode means all off-topic posts are closed immediately. He says that, as the chair of the committee in charge of NVDACon preparations, he felt uneasy regarding this, seeing that this could have an impact on the reputation of NVDA, NVDACon and this forum.

 

Thus, Joseph Lee says:

 

I, Joseph Lee, seeing the current situation on the NVDA list and due to an important event that’ll take place in less than 48 hours from now, hereby declare that an emergency exists in NVDA International Users Forum. Any off-topic subjects discussed for the past few hours, shortly after the moderator’s declaration on April 18, 2016, are hereby nullified (threads closed). This emergency will be lifted once the leadership team (Nimer Jaber and Joseph Lee) determine that the conditions for emergency mode is no more.

 

Joseph speaking:

 

On mailing lists I’m a moderator of, I usually allow some off-topic posts. But what we saw for the past few hours has been something that is beyond words. Perhaps I’m feeling the stress while organizing NVDACon 2016 (which has been in the works for the past six months), perhaps I’m feeling academic stress, perhaps I’m worried too much about the reputation of this forum and what not. For the past few days, I’ve been thinking about current state of this community and what we can do to make it better, as well as to help NV Access and other members of the NVDA community have a joyful year throughout 2016 as we celebrate NVDA’s tenth anniversary. To put it bluntly, I’m very disappointed at the state of NVDA International Users Forum, and to put it nicely, we’re in the danger of alienating potential community members due to our conduct (and some people did leave our list). If this happened at another time, it would have ended with a letter; but we’re living in the eve of NVDA Users and Developers Conference 2016 (tenth Anniversary Edition), an important event that’ll serve as an important occasion for each and every one of us to unite under NVDA, its history, future potential and celebrating its features. To find an international forum conducting ourselves like this at the eve of this important event is, to me, a huge public relations disaster (and I’m not saying this lightly).

 

At this moment I’d like to kindly ask that we ask ourselves the following: how did this happen, why is this happening, and what can we do?

 

Thus, for the sake of NV Access, rest of the NVDA community, NVDACon organizers and for other users around the world, I’d like to sincerely request that we show ourselves as model users and community members throughout NVDACon days and beyond (like many of you, I’d like to see NVDACon become a successful gathering).

 

If you have any questions, commetns or concerns regarding the emergency mode, please let Nimer and I (Joseph Lee) now via email at nvda+owner@groups.io. Thank you.

 

Sincerely,

Joseph S. Lee

Moderator, NVDA International Users Forum

Translator, code contributor and community add-ons reviewer, NVDA screen reader project

Chair, NVDA Tenth Anniversary Planning Committee

 


Re: AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

enes sarıbaş
 

hi,
yes, it does sound very different.

On 4/20/2016 8:28 AM, Eigeldinger Simon wrote:
Hi David,

I have the feeling it sounds the same as before.
Using espeak ng now on 3 computers and they seem not to have changed.



Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: David Goldfield [mailto:david.goldfield@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 01:32
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Hello.
I noticed that ESpeak has a more harsher sound to it with the latest
next and master versions, compared to 2016.1 and earlier releases. I
have filed a ticket about this and it seems like some people are
noticing it on some machines while others are not. I suppose I can get
used to it but I find it just so much harsher and am wondering what
others who are running these versions perceive?






installation failure, still

marvin kotler
 

    Good evening/morning list.  This is Marv here.  First, I am running a laptop with the latest nvda file and vista home premium.  I cannot get nvda to install.  I keep getting a failure message in the log file.  I really does not tell me very much.  Any ideas on what I might try would be appreciated; thanks in advance.
 


Re: NVDACon 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition, Thursday, 21 April 2016 #cal-reminder

 

Hi,

Yes, this is indeed happening: first session (conference opener/open forum) will start on April 22, 2016 at 00:00 UTC sharp (5:00 PM Pacific on the 21st, 8 PM Eastern and elsewhere).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: Nvda Calendar [mailto:noreply@groups.io]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 11:59 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDACon 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition, Thursday, 21 April 2016 #cal-reminder

 

"NVDACon 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition" Reminder

When:

Thursday, 21 April 2016

Where:

NVDA Korea TeamTalk Server

Description:

You are cordially invited to attend NVDA Users and Developers Conference (NVDACon) 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition. This is a great opportunity to celebrate NVDA's tenth anniversary, reflect upon NVDA's accomplishments, and look forward to the future of this free, open-source, community-driven screen reader. Learn more about NVDA's history and vision from lead developers, find out how companies such as Mozilla have assisted NVDA development, get a chance to talk to authors of your favorite add-ons and more.

For more information on NVDACon, visit www.nvda-kr.org/en/nvdacon.php. We the conference organizers, NV Access and the NVDA community look forward to meeting you at NVDACon 2016.

Sincerely, NVDA Tenth Anniversary Planning Committee


NVDACon 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition, Thursday, 21 April 2016 #cal-reminder

Nvda Calendar <noreply@...>
 

"NVDACon 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition" Reminder

When: Thursday, 21 April 2016
Where: NVDA Korea TeamTalk Server
Description:

You are cordially invited to attend NVDA Users and Developers Conference (NVDACon) 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition. This is a great opportunity to celebrate NVDA's tenth anniversary, reflect upon NVDA's accomplishments, and look forward to the future of this free, open-source, community-driven screen reader. Learn more about NVDA's history and vision from lead developers, find out how companies such as Mozilla have assisted NVDA development, get a chance to talk to authors of your favorite add-ons and more.

For more information on NVDACon, visit www.nvda-kr.org/en/nvdacon.php. We the conference organizers, NV Access and the NVDA community look forward to meeting you at NVDACon 2016.

Sincerely, NVDA Tenth Anniversary Planning Committee


IMPORTANT: This list is now under emergency mode #adminnotice

 

Dear members of the NVDA community and members of this forum:

 

First, thank you for your valuable posts for the past few days.

 

It has been brought to our attention that we’re straying way off topic from the purpose of this forum, stemming from a discussion that the moderator has intervened. A few hours later, someone started discussing a topic that didn’t fit the subject line to a point where we’ve started discussing other topics.

 

For the past few hours, Joseph Lee (the moderator/associate owner) was debating whether to declare an emergency, a first of its kind for this forum. An emergency mode means all off-topic posts are closed immediately. He says that, as the chair of the committee in charge of NVDACon preparations, he felt uneasy regarding this, seeing that this could have an impact on the reputation of NVDA, NVDACon and this forum.

 

Thus, Joseph Lee says:

 

I, Joseph Lee, seeing the current situation on the NVDA list and due to an important event that’ll take place in less than 48 hours from now, hereby declare that an emergency exists in NVDA International Users Forum. Any off-topic subjects discussed for the past few hours, shortly after the moderator’s declaration on April 18, 2016, are hereby nullified (threads closed). This emergency will be lifted once the leadership team (Nimer Jaber and Joseph Lee) determine that the conditions for emergency mode is no more.

 

Joseph speaking:

 

On mailing lists I’m a moderator of, I usually allow some off-topic posts. But what we saw for the past few hours has been something that is beyond words. Perhaps I’m feeling the stress while organizing NVDACon 2016 (which has been in the works for the past six months), perhaps I’m feeling academic stress, perhaps I’m worried too much about the reputation of this forum and what not. For the past few days, I’ve been thinking about current state of this community and what we can do to make it better, as well as to help NV Access and other members of the NVDA community have a joyful year throughout 2016 as we celebrate NVDA’s tenth anniversary. To put it bluntly, I’m very disappointed at the state of NVDA International Users Forum, and to put it nicely, we’re in the danger of alienating potential community members due to our conduct (and some people did leave our list). If this happened at another time, it would have ended with a letter; but we’re living in the eve of NVDA Users and Developers Conference 2016 (tenth Anniversary Edition), an important event that’ll serve as an important occasion for each and every one of us to unite under NVDA, its history, future potential and celebrating its features. To find an international forum conducting ourselves like this at the eve of this important event is, to me, a huge public relations disaster (and I’m not saying this lightly).

 

At this moment I’d like to kindly ask that we ask ourselves the following: how did this happen, why is this happening, and what can we do?

 

Thus, for the sake of NV Access, rest of the NVDA community, NVDACon organizers and for other users around the world, I’d like to sincerely request that we show ourselves as model users and community members throughout NVDACon days and beyond (like many of you, I’d like to see NVDACon become a successful gathering).

 

If you have any questions, commetns or concerns regarding the emergency mode, please let Nimer and I (Joseph Lee) now via email at nvda+owner@groups.io. Thank you.

 

Sincerely,

Joseph S. Lee

Moderator, NVDA International Users Forum

Translator, code contributor and community add-ons reviewer, NVDA screen reader project

Chair, NVDA Tenth Anniversary Planning Committee

 


locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

 

And that is what I liked about it.
the ability to gut your own software, all the fun is kind a gone out of it, with the registry and libraries.
If it stuffs then you can't ripp out a module and change it, its all or nothing.
It doesn't happen often that things really go, but when they do its devistating.
the os is to complex to find what a module does anymore.
If it screws its faster to restore an image or just reformat and hope it doesn't go nuts again.
In the early days, things didn't misbehave much but it was easy enough to just clear the issue without disturbing the os.
Had a friend get scared and turn off his computer because he had never heard the drive scan at all before.
Managed to wreck his mbr and os image.
I upgraded his os, and put his old configs back.
He lost nothing and gained a new os upgrade.
Another time a shareware program at a school I was at expired and went off and took out the os at startup.
I was able to remoove the offending lines and then uninstall the app, weell till I got permition to buy and install a full one.
Everything in windows is central which is fun till it fails which granted it doesn't often so you have more time to do mails like this and not babysitting.
However if it fails it can be solved maybe or it may be easier to restart and hope after a full reformat and program update of everything you think is the issue that it well works.
And if you are lucky it will for a time.

On 20/04/2016 3:48 p.m., David Moore wrote:
Hi guys,
I remember those good-old days well. When I went to college in the 80's,
I had the 720 KB floppy disks. I had DOS, a synthesizer, and a Pascal
interpreter on one of those floppies. I remember when Ohio State got a
few IBM AT's with a 1 meg hard drive, and one could put everything
imaginable on it. MS then thought that one would never need more than a
few meg for everything they had. Windows OS sure changed all of that for
sure. Also, computer programs were very concise then. The programmer
tried to have as few lines of code as possible so that space would be
conserved. Now, because of all the room we have on our systems,
programmers have many lines of code that is not necessary. Teachers who
said to write only one page made it much harder for me to summarize
everything in that little bit of space. I would imagine that it was
harder for programmers in the 80's to summarize everything in as few
lines of code as possible. We do have way more room than we need. Also,
videos and audio files could be made much more compressed if people did
not expect HD video quality and the best audio quality. You brought back
a lot of good memories. Jobs for the blind were plentiful in computers
in the dos days, because everything was text and command driven instead
of a five year old being able to point at an icon and click. Many more
people can use the computer, but it has made it harder for the blind to
use new computers. It seems like technology is trying to make everything
easier and easier for the sighted, but at the same time, it makes it
much more adventurous for the blind. But there is a lot of good that has
come out of this. Artificial intelligence will enable the blind to do
many tasks in the next ten years like driving a car. We have to look at
the glass half full and look toward a totally different future than we
had in the 80's. Thanks for some good memories. Take care.


-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 8:41 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding
Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

To be honest you'd be surprised what I had back in the day.
While I didn't use windows 3.11 or anything, I had wordprefect 5.1
though didn't use it much as I had a keynote gold 1850 and used keysoft
1 and mastertouch 1 for my work.
I had a 80mb drive then when that died a 60 mb drive.
I was able with drivespace from dos 6.22 to compress the drive to round
110-130mb and then ran compressed.
On that drive, I had wordprefect with documents, dos 6.22, a coppy of
norton utilities 7 later upgraded to 8.
quarterdec expanded memmory manager version 8.0, several games and
interpriters to run them, at least 5mb worth of utilities some made in
house by someone I knew at the time.
And I still had space.
I knew friends that had old office 4, works version 2, several games, in
fact most of the 500mb drive they had was games, both for windows and dos.
a cd drive, and soundblaster etc.
What you must remember is that 125mb was actually quite a lot.
The biggest programs were never more than 10-20mb however, remember that
dialup stuff means that 1-5mb was rather big in those days.
Your os was on 3 disks and if you had the suplimentals 4.
My toshiba had its own utilities disk and origional os disk.
all 1.44mb ofcause wordperfect came on 6 720kb disks.
2 disk for the printer.
1 for the dictionary.
1 for the printer program.
1 for the wordperfect program itself.
1 for the graphics components
1 for the installers, utilities, graphics drivers, basic graphics files,
text driver, and fonts.
The installer also created all the network files itself, modified My
compressed 110mb drive actually had a lot on it though 95% of it was for
fun I even had x tree gold.
The thing with the modern system is that everything got bigger once
windows became its own opperating system and not a dumb dos shell.
True programs were written for it but even so.
Up to windows 98 in fact windows did still use a stripped down version
of dos, each version having less and less.
Windows me had a really stripped down version of dos that with a little
hacking you could be made to access.
From windows 2000 on windows was its own os though the nt based os we
all know and love now existed it was for network users.
configurations etc.
The major advantage with the 9x systems was you could run just about
everything or anything and the system would not care.
Ofcause you didn't have the driver library for things like flash drives
and the like and usb support in fact didn't exist when win95 came out
but even so I kinda liked it.
No intercepts, and no real issue.
Later on with all the security protection etc that came with windows,
you got a lot of broken chains and issues with screenreaders running
together and uninstalling and the like.
You could do it if you knew what you were doing but it was unstable.
If you screwed up, then you could redo the chain but you would have to
reload the display and start again and then or reformat which is what
happened whenever I forgot to run things in the right order or at once
which was easy to do hotkeys and all.
With the dcm mirror system you can't do this anymore because its all
library driven.
And with uia now you definately can not cause any real issue.
That may actually be one change and only a reason that would get me to
upgrade to another os though the mirror system works just fine.
Ofcause with nvda and things that directly access the components of the
windows os all those off screen models and the like are bypassed though
you can loose some vertual modes and the stuff for some of the access
things have changed.
Programs are relying on web components for starters and thats where it
is at.
Eventually we may se an os based on the web and as long as that is
accessible it may not be that bad.



On 20/04/2016 11:41 a.m., David Moore wrote:
Hi,
With a 125 meg hard drive, how can you even have any programs or
documents on there? Do you back them up to a floppy disk?


From: Carlos
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 7:11 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding
Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Hello Again:

A description of my PC:



*Packard Bell Legend V

*386SX 16MHz Processor

*125 Megabyte Hard Disk

*EGA Video Card

*14 Inch Monitor

*Sound Blaster I Sound Card

*101 PS/2 Keyboard/Logitech Three Button Mouse w/Rubber Ball on
Bottom


*Windows 3.11/MS DOS 6.22

*Norton Commander 5, Microsoft Office Professional

*NVDA 5.x




Long live the 90's!!!


*


On 4/18/2016 3:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who
insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was
that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than
Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what
you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the
annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows.
The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in
XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7
forward. And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions
of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as
strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are
required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near
it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and was
in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her
birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go
through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they
were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the
cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just
short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very
familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came
before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents
experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my
only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer
and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian






.


locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

Well when I got a new system it was 8.1 but I got it at the end of the 7 downgrade offer.
If you had 8.1 you had a reason go go to 10 win8x never hit me well.

On 20/04/2016 3:10 p.m., David Moore wrote:
I went from XP to 8.1. The reason why is that I bought a new computer
when Windows Vista was out, and everyone told me to keep XP. So I
actually had XP put into the computer and paid more for doing that
instead of having Vista. By the time I bought a new computer, Windows
8.1 was being put in all new computers. I did used windows 7 at work.
Now, I have win10 and I definitely like it better than all of the other
windows versions, even better than using 8.1 at home and 7 at work. Take
care.


-----Original Message----- From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 10:57 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?

My old XP computer was ready to bite the dust too. That's how I ended up
going to windows 7. Now I'm on 10 and I love it.



-----Original Message-----
From: Arlene [mailto:nedster66@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 5:11 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?

That is good to know. Still blind people who wine have no reason to do
so. But tit's good to learn should you end up with win ten. Just like
wen my xp box bit the dust I ended up with 7.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Moore [mailto:jesusloves1966@...]
Sent: April-19-16 3:01 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?

Hi Rosemarie and all,
Every time MS produces a new version of windows, Freedom Scientific's
web site has many tutorials and free webinars on there about how to use
a new version of windows. NVDA users can learn jus as much from these
tutorials, because all of the concepts are the same. Using NVDA does not
have anything to do with using a new version of windows. If anyone wants
to look at the training Freedom Scientific has for win10, here is the
link to their web
site:
www.freedomscientific.com
Just find the training link and on that page, there is all kinds of
recorded material that walks you through using many programs with JAWS,
but you can learn just as much if you use NVDA. Take care.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 5:45 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?

Yes, change can be scary at times. When I upgraded from XP to windows 7,
I wondered if I'd ever be able to learn it. After buying the book and
playing with windows 7, I found it easier to type a program I wanted
into the search box.



-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss [mailto:@smeveriss]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 1:56 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?

Hmmm interesting way to put it.
Lazy, how about frightened, I am certainly scared.
Not wanting, well I have several comercial programs, an advanced screen
reader, and a few other apps which will cost some cash every system
change, so I do actually want to keep going till I need to update those.
Now if someone offered me like a super deal out of the blue then yeah I
am a sucker for packages so I would take it.
Another issue is the environment you are in.
My home environment has users in it who have not and are not wanting to
change.
The same tasks I have been doing for the last while will continue to be
the same and I see no reason to bother changing, ofcause its like I am
in a stagnent pool.
Life is that pool, its not moved much since I left university.
There is only so many positions in that pool you can be in.
There are not that many.



On 19/04/2016 8:40 p.m., Christo Vorster wrote:
Hi Angela

I agree with you, but such are people universally. There will always
be people who will make comments on what others say.

I think that deep down, most of us who are resistant to change are
somewhat lazy to learn new things, but so be it. It doesn't mean that
it make you a lazy person. Often the term "lazy" actually means "just
not wanting".

The saying goes: "a change is as good as a holiday", so lets enjoy our
changes, when we make them.

My opinion: if you want to change, do it. If you don't want to, do it.
The choice always is yours. I just feel that those wanting to change
just for the sake of change must take the consequences if they make a
wrong choice and in the same way, we who don't want to change, leave
us alone.

Sometimes you find people, especially concerning computer software,
who look down on those not using the same programs as they do. My
approach towards them is just to leave them be.

To be honest, I experienced it with many JAWS-users, and believe me, I
used JAWS until I was forced to upgrade to Win 10, because that is
what we teach at the college where I am employed. Please don't get me
wrong, I don't regret changing to NVDA, I am very happy and believe
that NVDA is a much better package, but the people I refer to, am of
the opinion that I am stupid, and then many of them are using
illegitimate copies.

Have a nice day

Christo

-----Original Message-----
From: Angela Delicata via Groups.io
[mailto:angeladelicata=libero.it@groups.io]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 10:20 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?

Always the same old discussions you can find on a mailing list for blind.
I will say my opinion: I am not against change, I am just lazy to
learn new stuff and do it only when it is really necessary.
I am not perfect, but only God is.
I think one can use whatever program he/she likes and everyone's
choice must be respected.

I wish I would never read such things anymore, but blind are hard to
change.

Ciao
Angela from Italy

Il 19/04/2016 ha scritto:


Van: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2016 4:14
Aan: nvda@groups.io
Onderwerp: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?



I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the
sake of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs
won't work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable
will the new programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook
express and when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was
hesitent because I did not know what email program would work and be
accessable. I did of course upgrade and used windows live mail and
when I began to have issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now
have windows 10 and I still use thunderbird. I think that the reason
that we all like outlook express isthat it is just a simple email
program with nobells and whistles like calendars or features that we
don't need or can't use. Outlook express will always be the best
email program but we have adapted to other programs but that does not
mean that we are happy with them we just adjust. We all don't like
change but we can and do adapt but we don't like it. With new
versions of windows there may be features that we don't need or want
or we can't use but we use what we want to use or what we can use. I
know that every one has their screen reader of choice and they think
that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp
it's no longer supported but I still have not been convinced that
there is a better program so I will just keep using it.
We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced
upon us this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they
don't have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice
and so is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are
willing to take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I
got this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me how
to find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start
button, much frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating
doing the upgrade to Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what
I was getting into before doing it.

Pauline



On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted
on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it
was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than
Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what
you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the
annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows.
The number of things that require manual intervention from the user
in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7
forward.
And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows
the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the
differences, but the differences are where people are required to
learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near
it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and
was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at
her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go
through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they
were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the
cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just
short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very
familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came
before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents
experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my
only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer
and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian










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.