Date   

Re: Reading math using NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi David,

As well as MathPlayer, you also need MathType - also by Design Science.

The MathPlayer manual for Word and PowerPoint is brief but here: https://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathplayer/manual.htm#mathplayer_and_word

If you are still having problems, please let me know if you are getting an error, or what you are trying and what is happening.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:44 PM, David Griffith <daj.griffith@...> wrote:
I have no knowledge of Mats I am afraid but I would simply comment that I routinely save Powerpoint presentations to PDF which personally i find much easer to review then.


Whether this solves your maths problem is another matter of course.


David Griffith


On 16/01/2017 11:07, Joel.B wrote:
Hi,


Can someone please guide me how to read math keyed in mathtype in powerpoint using NVDA?

Thanks,
Joel








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released

 

system language, my keyboard is usually us to I have never needed to change it for any reason.

On 16/01/2017 10:02 p.m., Jacob Kruger wrote:
Are you talking about system language, or keyboard language?


While my system language is generally set to english UK, or english
South Africa, keyboard language is always set to english US.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2017-01-16 10:43, Shaun Everiss wrote:
I know this is a bit far fetched but has anyone been able to emulate
this.
I have several machines installed win10 in new zealand languages were
nz and us, and I switched to nz by default no issues there.
I am unsure but not willing to try to switch to us and see.
I have just finnished working with an old first gen i3.
Its mostly set as a windows server handling not much.
I updated as much as I could and installed as much as I could without
breaking it so nothing really big like vertual machines and big
network management stuff is actually loaded on it, however it was in
us language, I tried to change it to nz.
I managed to get the language pack installed.
However after changing to that pack and restarting.
Windows acted really strange the keyboard stopped working right, and
almost total accessability failier, until I switched back.
Once again I tried with other keyboards but no luck.
I basically tried the search box and it either didn't respond or was
slow to, this was with narator to mind you and nvda in core and standard.
Also it seems that even when it did work it wouldn't accept anything
to do with language or anything with enter, ie if I hit search, typed
language and hit enter I'd just get the speach saying la la la la
lalalalalala
All day long till I restored the system or reset via control panel the
language.
I have never needed to change languages since build 10040 that was
when I upgraded initially, since then its never been needed.
I also had to clear a lot of optional features from the system and
somehow after killing stuff I shouldn't have add optional feature
button went and I got something about typing, luckily there was a
point from when I uninstalled a program that morning else I'd have to
reformat and its not my pc.
I then slowly created points and redid what was needed excluding the
stuff that didn't work.
One of the things I retried was the language and after having a few
issues with it and finally installing it.
And then finally applying the windows update again for the updated
language files, the system semi worked but the keyboard refused no
matter what board I used and other languages than us.
Also apps especially universals, search boxes, store, etc loaded
slowly or if they loaded the accessability functions never kicked in
at least for a couple minutes.
I have ofcause an ultrafast unit here which has no issue but its not
mine and again the language and board are nz and us respectively and I
am not mucking round.
I also never needed to remove optional features or anything like it.
I have only once needed to remove some program features from control
panel but I have never had the same issue.
I figgure the system is probably a bit slow and all the extras are
making it crash so I didn't push it.
However even if most of what I say only happens on vary slow boxes
there may be something in that.
I don't want to mangle an actual system, but even if I didn't load
every feature and junket I'd still want to at least change the
language if not for anything then the dictionaries and other office
default thingies that went on.
And if not I could get round that.
I am not sure what it is.
I suspect that its the input methods and maybe a few other things.
I am close, that close I can feel it again I am so far away that I
could spend all day on it.
In the end I got the system working for shipping back to its owner today.
I don't think it would look good on the contract to say because I
wanted to see what this button did I'd have to reformat and such,
especially since I don't use a screen at all, so I do rely on the
system starting up enough to run sound and my keyboard.\

Also is it just me or is realtek.com.tw offline and has been for days
now.
Skype update servers were offline today but thats ok now.
The next box I will be dealing with is a i7 with hybrid ssd and hdd,
and I hope it won't have the same issue.
Naturally I will be doing the same thing, seeing if I can stress the
thing by loading lots of stuff and seeing what it does.
It goes without saying though that I will be making restore points I
didn't this morning so I will do so before anything major is done.
I just hope things are not as mangled as they were.
But if windows does this again, then there is a bug.
If I write back again and I hope to god I don't need to it means that
I replicated the bug.
If its win10 apps or nvda then whatever.
I know there are insiders on here so if it happens to you or whatever
maybe you could post a feadback, I guess I could but I havn't tracked
the issue down and I will have slightly less time tomorrow than I did
today to do it.
Pluss I know half of you hackers stay up all night, yes! mr lee I am
looking at you right at this minute.
I am sure if it can be replicated someone can get back to me or over
on the list, removing, installing features and changing languages for
default language at least is not something you tend to do often.
If it can be done, at least I do hope that programs that need it
detect and run the language pack even if windows just doesn't do so.



On 16/01/2017 4:42 p.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,



To tell you the truth, Windows 10 App Essentials will not work under
anything other than Windows 10 build 10586 (Version 1511) or later.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Arlene
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 7:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



I will when the new version comes out.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: January-15-17 5:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi,

Trying installing it in Windows 7.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 3:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi, could windows 7 users use it too?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: January-15-17 7:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi,

Yes, you have Anniversary Update, so go ahead and use 17.01.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rémy Ruiz
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 4:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi Joseph!
Thanks, i am using:
14393.693)
If I understand correctly, I can now cheerfully pass this new version:
Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01
Thanks again for all!
Have a good day!
Cheers since France.
Rémy

Le 14/01/2017 20:53, Joseph Lee a écrit :

Hi,

Open Start, type “winver” (without quotes) and press ENTER. If you are
hearing builds other than 1024, 10586 and 14393, you are running an
Insider
Preview build.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rémy Ruiz
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi Josephe,
Thanks for jour job!
Sorry how to know if i am using Windows Insider build?
For me Windows ten is new! :)
Thanks very much.
Cheers since France.
Rémy

Le 14/01/2017 18:08, Joseph Lee a écrit :

Hi everyone,



Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 is now available:

https://github.com/josephsl/wintenApps/releases/tag/17.01



Important: if you are using Windows Insider build 15002 or later,
please do
NOT use this build – you should either use the latest development
snapshot
or wait until add-on 17.02 comes out. Also, this version is the last
one to
support NVDA 2016.3 or earlier.

Cheers,

Joseph













Re: Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released

 

Well I replicated the issue once again while doing another unit today, same client.
this time an i7 hybrid ssd hdd third generation.
The searchbox never went away, but I can certainly notice the delays, and typing lang just does not work.
On my desktop updated with 10040 ofcause that was never the issue in fact its been nz language and thats all.
I thought I'd be nice and report it in feadback hub but I couldn't find the submit buttons and the input fields while they do read back to me do not under any circomstances echo back I also noticed that I have to go to control panel to actually install the language packs as well as download all of those on settings.
I have not tried to remove features on the working system I have or in fact to remove optional features and see if that bug with it doing what it was doing before appearing I assume it is still there.
To finnish off the message slightly away from it to the person with the issue with the delete dialog, after removing some spyware from the latest box, even with default brouser, I couldn't open web addresses till I told open to make chrome the default which it was anyway and I also had to go to the recyclebin properties and uncheck the notification messages so it would then show again, its aparently a new windows feature according to the net and I am not to thrilled with it especially for new users.

On 16/01/2017 11:10 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
It says system language English US, Language Locale' English UK
One assumes this means that there are rules for English always, but
variations occur for different countries such as currency defaults and
other stuff., like spelling dictionaries etc.
I have on more than one occasion had sent to me doc files from machines
set up all over the place from Cyrillic to English us and it can be a
real pain when attempting to edit such files having to check the
language the template used was in to get anything sensible.
I've also found daft things going on like a line I've added apparently
in English suddenly turning to what looks like Greek on print out, to
the great hilarity of my sighted friends.
I guess with computers a good sense of humour and patience is needed.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Kruger" <jacob@blindza.co.za>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released


Are you talking about system language, or keyboard language?


While my system language is generally set to english UK, or english
South Africa, keyboard language is always set to english US.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2017-01-16 10:43, Shaun Everiss wrote:
I know this is a bit far fetched but has anyone been able to emulate
this.
I have several machines installed win10 in new zealand languages were
nz and us, and I switched to nz by default no issues there.
I am unsure but not willing to try to switch to us and see.
I have just finnished working with an old first gen i3.
Its mostly set as a windows server handling not much.
I updated as much as I could and installed as much as I could without
breaking it so nothing really big like vertual machines and big
network management stuff is actually loaded on it, however it was in
us language, I tried to change it to nz.
I managed to get the language pack installed.
However after changing to that pack and restarting.
Windows acted really strange the keyboard stopped working right, and
almost total accessability failier, until I switched back.
Once again I tried with other keyboards but no luck.
I basically tried the search box and it either didn't respond or was
slow to, this was with narator to mind you and nvda in core and
standard.
Also it seems that even when it did work it wouldn't accept anything
to do with language or anything with enter, ie if I hit search, typed
language and hit enter I'd just get the speach saying la la la la
lalalalalala
All day long till I restored the system or reset via control panel
the language.
I have never needed to change languages since build 10040 that was
when I upgraded initially, since then its never been needed.
I also had to clear a lot of optional features from the system and
somehow after killing stuff I shouldn't have add optional feature
button went and I got something about typing, luckily there was a
point from when I uninstalled a program that morning else I'd have to
reformat and its not my pc.
I then slowly created points and redid what was needed excluding the
stuff that didn't work.
One of the things I retried was the language and after having a few
issues with it and finally installing it.
And then finally applying the windows update again for the updated
language files, the system semi worked but the keyboard refused no
matter what board I used and other languages than us.
Also apps especially universals, search boxes, store, etc loaded
slowly or if they loaded the accessability functions never kicked in
at least for a couple minutes.
I have ofcause an ultrafast unit here which has no issue but its not
mine and again the language and board are nz and us respectively and
I am not mucking round.
I also never needed to remove optional features or anything like it.
I have only once needed to remove some program features from control
panel but I have never had the same issue.
I figgure the system is probably a bit slow and all the extras are
making it crash so I didn't push it.
However even if most of what I say only happens on vary slow boxes
there may be something in that.
I don't want to mangle an actual system, but even if I didn't load
every feature and junket I'd still want to at least change the
language if not for anything then the dictionaries and other office
default thingies that went on.
And if not I could get round that.
I am not sure what it is.
I suspect that its the input methods and maybe a few other things.
I am close, that close I can feel it again I am so far away that I
could spend all day on it.
In the end I got the system working for shipping back to its owner
today.
I don't think it would look good on the contract to say because I
wanted to see what this button did I'd have to reformat and such,
especially since I don't use a screen at all, so I do rely on the
system starting up enough to run sound and my keyboard.\

Also is it just me or is realtek.com.tw offline and has been for days
now.
Skype update servers were offline today but thats ok now.
The next box I will be dealing with is a i7 with hybrid ssd and hdd,
and I hope it won't have the same issue.
Naturally I will be doing the same thing, seeing if I can stress the
thing by loading lots of stuff and seeing what it does.
It goes without saying though that I will be making restore points I
didn't this morning so I will do so before anything major is done.
I just hope things are not as mangled as they were.
But if windows does this again, then there is a bug.
If I write back again and I hope to god I don't need to it means that
I replicated the bug.
If its win10 apps or nvda then whatever.
I know there are insiders on here so if it happens to you or whatever
maybe you could post a feadback, I guess I could but I havn't tracked
the issue down and I will have slightly less time tomorrow than I did
today to do it.
Pluss I know half of you hackers stay up all night, yes! mr lee I am
looking at you right at this minute.
I am sure if it can be replicated someone can get back to me or over
on the list, removing, installing features and changing languages for
default language at least is not something you tend to do often.
If it can be done, at least I do hope that programs that need it
detect and run the language pack even if windows just doesn't do so.



On 16/01/2017 4:42 p.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,



To tell you the truth, Windows 10 App Essentials will not work under
anything other than Windows 10 build 10586 (Version 1511) or later.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Arlene
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 7:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



I will when the new version comes out.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: January-15-17 5:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi,

Trying installing it in Windows 7.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 3:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi, could windows 7 users use it too?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: January-15-17 7:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi,

Yes, you have Anniversary Update, so go ahead and use 17.01.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rémy Ruiz
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 4:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi Joseph!
Thanks, i am using:
14393.693)
If I understand correctly, I can now cheerfully pass this new version:
Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01
Thanks again for all!
Have a good day!
Cheers since France.
Rémy

Le 14/01/2017 20:53, Joseph Lee a écrit :

Hi,

Open Start, type “winver” (without quotes) and press ENTER. If you are
hearing builds other than 1024, 10586 and 14393, you are running an
Insider
Preview build.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rémy Ruiz
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi Josephe,
Thanks for jour job!
Sorry how to know if i am using Windows Insider build?
For me Windows ten is new! :)
Thanks very much.
Cheers since France.
Rémy

Le 14/01/2017 18:08, Joseph Lee a écrit :

Hi everyone,



Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 is now available:

https://github.com/josephsl/wintenApps/releases/tag/17.01



Important: if you are using Windows Insider build 15002 or later,
please do
NOT use this build – you should either use the latest development
snapshot
or wait until add-on 17.02 comes out. Also, this version is the last
one to
support NVDA 2016.3 or earlier.

Cheers,

Joseph














Solved: Reading formatting with Jarte

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Sharni-Lee and everyone,

I thought I would write this as a new thread, just for anyone who didn't follow all the way through the Accessible Word Processors thread and the issue raised of reading formatting such as Italics.

The issue was the things like Italics were read at the start of a line, but not when they appeared in the middle of a line.

The solution is to open the NVDA document formatting dialog and ensure "Report formatting changes after the cursor (Can cause a lag)" is enabled.  What this does is detect all formatting on the line, not just at the exact place the cursor is.  When using say all (NVDA+a or NVDA+down arrow), the cursor moves down to the start of each line as it gets to it, which is why it was detecting formatting at the start of the line but not in the middle.

To turn this option on:

1. Press NVDA+CONTROL+D (or NVDA+N to open NVDA's menu, then choose preferences, then Document formatting).
2. TAB or SHIFT+TAB to the "Report formatting changes after the cursor (can cause a lag) option.
3. Press SPACEBAR to toggle this option.  Ensure it is checked.

Note that the option is the last thing in the dialog now before the ok and cancel buttons, so SHIFT+TAB is easier to get to it (just noticed there doesn't seem to be a hot key, I'll open an issue for that).

Note that in order to report things like italic and bold, you will also need to have "font attributes" checked, which is the third option in the dialog.

I tested this with a portable version of Jarte in Windows 7 as well as Windows 10 just to ensure it works in both.

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: off topic but interesting or: Add-ons in fireFox

Ksenia Natapova
 

Hello,
Has that addon been signed?
Best regards
Ksenia Natapova

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 16.01.2017 um 19:44 schrieb Георги Ламбов <obichamlegiona@gmail.com>:

Evening group!

I'm trying to install an add-on on firefox but the action is unsuccessful. With the latest firefox version. Otherwise I have some important add-ons installed and it seems to me that with each next version of firefox, the add-on's installation is more difficult and even immpossible. Are there any tricks for the latest version which I work with?

Georgi




off topic but interesting or: Add-ons in fireFox

Георги Ламбов <obichamlegiona@...>
 

Evening group!

I'm trying to install an add-on on firefox but the action is unsuccessful. With the latest firefox version. Otherwise I have some important add-ons installed and it seems to me that with each next version of firefox, the add-on's installation is more difficult and even immpossible. Are there any tricks for the latest version which I work with?

Georgi


Accessing various folders in Outlook 2016 with Windows 10 and NVDA 2016.4

Ketan Kothari
 

    Hi friends,
 
I am using MS Office 365 with windows 10 and NVDA 2016.4.  I am unable to access folders other than In-box in MS Outlook 2016.  How do I do that?  I wish to access sent items.  Even when I press Contrl plus y I can get the folders but am not able to move messages from one folder to another.  Any help will be appreciated.
 
With best wishes,
 
Ketan


removing a forgotten password

Pascal Lambert
 

Please, need your urgent help.  I need to remove a forgotten password on a laptop I need to access.

It is an HP laptop using Win10.

Many thanks.

Blessings.

Pascal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible Word Processor

 

Also, these sorts of attributes can be found by opening the menus, opening tools, then opening fonts from the tools submenu.

Select a fond in the list.

Then tab once.  You will be in a list of attributes for the font, italics being one.  I didn't tab further to see what else is in the dialog.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 7:55 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible Word Processor

 

You can set fonts.  It is more or less the case that if the old Wordpad can do something, HJPad can do it.  If you type a sentence and use control I to toggle between italics on and off, the text will be italicized where indicated.  I see no reason to believe other such commands are absent.  I haven't seen this stated anywhere, but just comparing the old Wordpad to HJPad, even the name, indicates that it was built on the old WordPad.  It was intended for use with JAWS basic training material.  It may be that the basic training material has changed to the point where HJPad isn't as useful with it as before. 

 

Those who are curious will find, in the HJPad menus under tools, a submenu named sample dialogs.  It is interesting to play around with the sample dialogs.  Some of them would still make good teaching tools and references.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 7:37 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible Word Processor

 

HJPad does appear to have been removed as an explicitly supported
Utility in Jaws but I actually found it buried away in a strange
location even with Jaws 18.

Quite why it would be hidden in this location I do not know.

It does have a spell checker but little else really. As far as I can
tell you can edit the font but cannot set any font attributes like bold,
italic, or underline.


I always saw it as really a possible notepad replacement rather than a
word processor.

Despite being buried away it does still work.


Anyway I found it on my system under the follwoing very odd path


C:\Windows\Installer\$PatchCache$\Managed\38E784264F70E08468F74BA4CC2F4C2E\18.0.1835\HJPAD.EXE



David Griffith

David Griffith
On 16/01/2017 10:10, Robert Kingett wrote:
> I have not seen any H J Pad, but OpenOffice is the most accessible
> word processor besides Microsoft word. There is Jarte, of course, but
> I do not count that because you have to pay to get all of the features.
>
>
>



Re: Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released

 

Hi,
Yep, that fix is under incubation at this time (next branch). I'll remove that fix from my add-on once the fix makes it to a stable version of NVDA.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andre Fisher
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 10:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released

One thing to point out though Joseph.

The add-on does do one thing that is not Windows 10 specific. When
Windows+D is used to go to the desktop, while the add-on is running,
pane is not announced all across the board.

Thanks.

On 1/15/17, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,



To tell you the truth, Windows 10 App Essentials will not work under
anything other than Windows 10 build 10586 (Version 1511) or later.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Arlene
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 7:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



I will when the new version comes out.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: January-15-17 5:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi,

Trying installing it in Windows 7.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 3:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi, could windows 7 users use it too?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: January-15-17 7:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi,

Yes, you have Anniversary Update, so go ahead and use 17.01.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rémy Ruiz
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 4:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi Joseph!
Thanks, i am using:
14393.693)
If I understand correctly, I can now cheerfully pass this new version:
Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01
Thanks again for all!
Have a good day!
Cheers since France.
Rémy

Le 14/01/2017 20:53, Joseph Lee a écrit :

Hi,

Open Start, type “winver” (without quotes) and press ENTER. If you are
hearing builds other than 1024, 10586 and 14393, you are running an
Insider Preview build.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rémy Ruiz
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi Josephe,
Thanks for jour job!
Sorry how to know if i am using Windows Insider build?
For me Windows ten is new! :)
Thanks very much.
Cheers since France.
Rémy

Le 14/01/2017 18:08, Joseph Lee a écrit :

Hi everyone,



Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 is now available:

https://github.com/josephsl/wintenApps/releases/tag/17.01



Important: if you are using Windows Insider build 15002 or later,
please do NOT use this build – you should either use the latest
development snapshot or wait until add-on 17.02 comes out. Also, this
version is the last one to support NVDA 2016.3 or earlier.

Cheers,

Joseph








Important announcement for StationPlaylist Studio add-on users: please update to todays' builds by February 1st due to change of add-on update address

 

Hi everyone, especially for SPL Studio add-on users,

 

If you are using add-on releases prior to 17.01.1 stable or 15.5A LTS (released today), please update to today’s builds by February 1st (LTS is for those using SPL 5.01). Starting from today’s builds, the add-on update address has changed as part of a transition process to replace nvda-kr.org with a brand new website.

 

The latest add-on releases can be found at:

https://github.com/josephsl/stationPlaylist/releases/tag/17.01

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Accessible Word Processor

Gene
 

Also, these sorts of attributes can be found by opening the menus, opening tools, then opening fonts from the tools submenu.
Select a fond in the list.
Then tab once.  You will be in a list of attributes for the font, italics being one.  I didn't tab further to see what else is in the dialog.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible Word Processor

You can set fonts.  It is more or less the case that if the old Wordpad can do something, HJPad can do it.  If you type a sentence and use control I to toggle between italics on and off, the text will be italicized where indicated.  I see no reason to believe other such commands are absent.  I haven't seen this stated anywhere, but just comparing the old Wordpad to HJPad, even the name, indicates that it was built on the old WordPad.  It was intended for use with JAWS basic training material.  It may be that the basic training material has changed to the point where HJPad isn't as useful with it as before. 
 
Those who are curious will find, in the HJPad menus under tools, a submenu named sample dialogs.  It is interesting to play around with the sample dialogs.  Some of them would still make good teaching tools and references.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible Word Processor

HJPad does appear to have been removed as an explicitly supported
Utility in Jaws but I actually found it buried away in a strange
location even with Jaws 18.

Quite why it would be hidden in this location I do not know.

It does have a spell checker but little else really. As far as I can
tell you can edit the font but cannot set any font attributes like bold,
italic, or underline.


I always saw it as really a possible notepad replacement rather than a
word processor.

Despite being buried away it does still work.


Anyway I found it on my system under the follwoing very odd path


C:\Windows\Installer\$PatchCache$\Managed\38E784264F70E08468F74BA4CC2F4C2E\18.0.1835\HJPAD.EXE



David Griffith

David Griffith
On 16/01/2017 10:10, Robert Kingett wrote:
> I have not seen any H J Pad, but OpenOffice is the most accessible
> word processor besides Microsoft word. There is Jarte, of course, but
> I do not count that because you have to pay to get all of the features.
>
>
>




Re: Accessible Word Processor

Gene
 

You can set fonts.  It is more or less the case that if the old Wordpad can do something, HJPad can do it.  If you type a sentence and use control I to toggle between italics on and off, the text will be italicized where indicated.  I see no reason to believe other such commands are absent.  I haven't seen this stated anywhere, but just comparing the old Wordpad to HJPad, even the name, indicates that it was built on the old WordPad.  It was intended for use with JAWS basic training material.  It may be that the basic training material has changed to the point where HJPad isn't as useful with it as before. 
 
Those who are curious will find, in the HJPad menus under tools, a submenu named sample dialogs.  It is interesting to play around with the sample dialogs.  Some of them would still make good teaching tools and references.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible Word Processor

HJPad does appear to have been removed as an explicitly supported
Utility in Jaws but I actually found it buried away in a strange
location even with Jaws 18.

Quite why it would be hidden in this location I do not know.

It does have a spell checker but little else really. As far as I can
tell you can edit the font but cannot set any font attributes like bold,
italic, or underline.


I always saw it as really a possible notepad replacement rather than a
word processor.

Despite being buried away it does still work.


Anyway I found it on my system under the follwoing very odd path


C:\Windows\Installer\$PatchCache$\Managed\38E784264F70E08468F74BA4CC2F4C2E\18.0.1835\HJPAD.EXE



David Griffith

David Griffith
On 16/01/2017 10:10, Robert Kingett wrote:
> I have not seen any H J Pad, but OpenOffice is the most accessible
> word processor besides Microsoft word. There is Jarte, of course, but
> I do not count that because you have to pay to get all of the features.
>
>
>




Re: Accessible Word Processor

David Griffith
 

HJPad does appear to have been removed as an explicitly supported Utility in Jaws but I actually found it buried away in a strange location even with Jaws 18.

Quite why it would be hidden in this location I do not know.

It does have a spell checker but little else really. As far as I can tell you can edit the font but cannot set any font attributes like bold, italic, or underline.


I always saw it as really a possible notepad replacement rather than a word processor.

Despite being buried away it does still work.


Anyway I found it on my system under the follwoing very odd path


C:\Windows\Installer\$PatchCache$\Managed\38E784264F70E08468F74BA4CC2F4C2E\18.0.1835\HJPAD.EXE



David Griffith

David Griffith

On 16/01/2017 10:10, Robert Kingett wrote:
I have not seen any H J Pad, but OpenOffice is the most accessible word processor besides Microsoft word. There is Jarte, of course, but I do not count that because you have to pay to get all of the features.


Re: Reading math using NVDA

David Griffith
 

I have no knowledge of Mats I am afraid but I would simply comment that I routinely save Powerpoint presentations to PDF which personally i find much easer to review then.


Whether this solves your maths problem is another matter of course.


David Griffith

On 16/01/2017 11:07, Joel.B wrote:
Hi,


Can someone please guide me how to read math keyed in mathtype in powerpoint using NVDA?

Thanks,
Joel


Re: Reading math using NVDA

joel.benjamin@...
 

Hi,


Can someone please guide me how to read math keyed in mathtype in powerpoint using NVDA?

Thanks,
Joel


Re: Accessible Word Processor

Gene
 

It was never in tools.  In the JAWS menu, if you down arrow through all the items, Run HJPad is in the main JAWS menu.
I'm not sure what the all programs menu is called in later versions of Windows but if its still included, it's in the JAWS menu found there.  While I would expect HJPad to be there, I don't know since I haventt updated JAWS for many years.
 
Gene

----- Original Message ------
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible Word Processor

Hi Gene,


I have a JAWS 16 home edition version.  It is not in that list of tools.  I don't know if the full version demo would have it.



On 1/16/2017 2:17 AM, Gene wrote:
It likely still is available.  You can run it whether you are running JAWS or not.  It is in the JAWS menu which you open in the all programs menu.  There is an item that says run HJ Pad.  I don't know how the abilities of H J Pad compare with JARTE.  But H J Pad is based on the old menu version of Wordpad.  At least it was.  It has a spell checker, which Word Pad doesn't.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 12:33 AM
Subject: [nvda] Accessible Word Processor

Hi Group,


I started a new thread on this because I accidentally deleted the
original 'accessible word processor' thread.  In any case, I don't know
if this is still valid or not and it also depends on just what you want
to use your slimmed down and very accessible Word Processor software
for.  IN the old days, you used to get a small program with a spell
checker called HJ Pad when you installed a copy of JAWS (yes I know it's
one of our competitors.)  This little package was totally accessible,
had a spell checker and would save in text or RTF as I recall.  It used
to be available--even if you only had a demo of JAWS. I don't know
whether this is true any more, but 5 years ago, it was so.  I wonder if
anyone has tried installing the newest demos and seeing if they still
include HJ Pad and seeing if it still works after 40 minutes.




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: accessible word processors with NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Sharni,

When you reply to a list message, it automatically goes to the list, but if you reply all, you can grab the address of the sender, or read the header information of the message I sent (depending on how you read your mail it will often include it) but my address is quentin@...  (Please note, I'm just saying that for information, not attacking you for not finding it - it's actually not obvious unless you know where to look!)


I just tried writing the line I mentioned earlier "the quick brown fox" with brown italicised, in word 2016, saving it as doc and rtf and opening in both Jarte and WordPad.  Neither wanted to open the doc file at all (Wordpad opened it all mangled - no actual text, and Jarte wanted that converter I linked to but never downloaded myself).  Opening the RTF file, both Jarte and WordPad read it fine, either navigating by word / character, or using say all or read line.  

Definitely what I would say is that if you are constantly opening files that were written in Microsoft Office, and the formatting etc is very important, then you really are best off biting the bullet and buying Office - no other program is guaranteed to open it properly.  If you write and save your own documents, then Jarte looks pretty good - as far as I notice, the issues we've been talking about have all been from importing a document from Word, is that correct?  Writing text in Jarte and then saving and reopening works fine?

Having said all that, I've been in situations at various times where I didn't have access to Word but needed to open a Word document and programs like Jarte and WordPad can do it almost always well enough to read and likely even edit.  It just depends on what you are doing, where you are getting your files and what you need to do with them.

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Hi,


I've just made this file in Jarte itself, saved in .rtf. It behaves as I described below. Since it's a test file specifically created to demonstrate my issue, I have no problems sending it to the list at large. It's perfectly safe, guys!  

   
On 16/01/2017 8:58 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

Quentin,


I've noticed the opposite. I had Microsoft Word Starter 2010 on my original computer when I first got it, and then Microsoft Office 2013 when Mum bought me a license for one computer. NVDA always reads italics and bold as expected, only on the words that formatting is affecting. In Word Pad, saved into rtf for the purposes of reading and working with it in JARTE, the same files the emphasis is clearly announced in have it blurred. Single italicised words in the middle of lines are passed over, while words at the beginning of the line dictate whether the whole line will be treated as plain, italic or bold. When scrolling over it character by character, it doesn't do this, but when I use say-all, it behaves as I described. It may be something to do with Office messing things up even when the file's saved as rtf, but I remember noticing this a long time ago when I thought writing in word pad was my only means of writing. That resulted in me posting a chapter of a fanfiction with a whole chunk of text in italics that I never meant to be so.


I'd send a file, but your email doesn't seem to be tied to this message, only the email address of the list, and all the relevant files are of stories or parts of stories I have written. I'm quite protective of rough drafts of things...


On 16/01/2017 4:50 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Sharni,

No I'm not using anything special.  If you are re-using the same Word file over and over or the same template, it's possible there's something hidden in it that could be causing problems.  To be honest, I've more seen that in Office itself and opening a file in something other than office is more likely to fix it, but you never know.  If you have a file that's doing it, that you are happy to send me offline, I can have a look and see if it works on my computer.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Quentin, do you have any addons or something that might have changed how NVDA reads Word Pad/Jarte files? I'd be super grateful. I'd have no problem using Jarte if I could read my stories with the proper emphasis included.


On 16/01/2017 10:24 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Sharni,

Re using Jarte and the Office compatibility pack, try this link from Microsoft directly: https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/details.aspx?id=3

The en-au in the middle of that address is because I'm in Australia, feel free to change it to en-us or en-uk etc as needed, I'm not sure it makes a difference for this.

Regarding wordpad not properly identifying text attributes like Italic, what version of Windows do you have again?  I've tried in the regular stable build of Windows 10 and in the latest fast insider build (15007) and NVDA (2016.4) identifies italic etc text in the middle of a line correctly.  EG if I type:

The quick brown fox

and italicise the word "brown", NVDA reads:

The quick italic brown no italic fox.

It does this in Wordpad, Word 2016, Jarte and LibreOffice.

Note that you need to have NVDA's document formatting set to report text attributes (for italic).  Press NVDA+control+d to get to that screen.  If you don't have that set, it won't identify the text as italic regardless of where it is.

The only place I've seen behaviour similar to what you mentioned (if the start of a line is italic thinking the whole line is, and not seeing it at all if it's in the middle of a line), is if part of a cell has different formatting in Excel.

Kind regards

Quentin.



On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Thanks! As I said last night, when I tried to follow the link from the page it said "We are sorry, but the page could not be found" and gave me a ton of possible search options.


Really though, it doesn't matter what file format the document is when it comes to displaying. If I want to work in the file with Jarte, I have to save in rtf or .doc anyways. I just save a new copy in wordpad to the rtf format and then it reads it fine. I do miss announced page numbers and NVDA being nice about italics though. What I mean is, in Word Pad, if a word is italicised in the middle of a line, NVDA doesn't report it, and if it's at the beginning of a line, NVDA acts like the whole line is italicised even though it isn't. Same with bold, underline, and so on. Is there an addon that corrects this behaviour? Or will there be an improvement in NVDA in that regard? I know I'd be grateful     for it. Then Jarte would be just that bit less irritating.


On 16/01/2017 8:48 AM, Gene wrote:
You can download the installation file to allow you to work with docx files here:
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA

if you could please send the link to your dropbox, that would be very much appreciated. I also am considering using chart, but don't really want to pay the money for it partially because I don't have the money for it.

Noah Carver

> On Jan 15, 2017, at 15:16, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to caution users that use an microsoft product, ie office 2013 and up certainly it does this on 2016.
> Aparently the older software has some incompatibility when upgrading the os from one version to another.
> It tends to default extentions back to open xml viewer which itself is not helpfull.
> Worse excell refuses to be able to process file commands and can not start until you repair office.
> For the systems that had filter pack aand the compatibility pack installed, I solved this by removing both these packs then repairing office as on restart no files opened at all.
> Ever since then updates have worked as expected.
> If you are on a shared system with office.
> Every time you update the os especially when its a security update not a performance update, including newer and older office updates, you will need to repair office with the quick repair before using it again.
> I am not sure why that is but thats a way to get round it.
> If you often need a share then thats fine but if you don't it is easier to kill the extra converter packs.
> I should also want to add that I have old word xp converters for some older files that came from an xp machine that perminantly exist on my dropbox cloud, they are so small just like xp sound recorder its unlikely I will ever kill them so they stay till I die I guess.
> I have no inttention of killing them.
> The only thing you do need is sevenzip to decompress them but if someone wants to make an installer email me and I'll send the link for copywrite reasons jarte can't store those on its site but.
>
>
>> On 16/01/2017 12:20 a.m., Gene wrote:
>> It doesn't need the purchased  version.  You can install the Microsoft pack that gives Microsoft Word and some other programs the ability to read docx files.  if you try to open a Docx file, a dialog comes up telling you that.  It may provide a link in the dialog to the JARTE web page where the subject is discussed further.
>> We don't know how Word is being useed so we don't know if JARTE has all the features desired but you can read about it and install and look at the program to see if it does.
>>
>> Gene
>>
>>
>> From: Brian's Mail list account
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 4:38 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA
>>
>>
>> The thing about Jarte is that to open docx files it needs the purchased
>> version as far as I know. OOpen and Libra Office seem to be able to load in
>> docx files, but as has been discussed here of late, the authors need to do
>> some more work to allow screenreaders to work on all parts of them like read
>> all etc.
>>
>> Of course it might  be possible to find an old copy of an older version of
>> Office pro corporate which I did and it still worked aand accepted the key.
>> Legal?  Well, its a grey area isn't it. if the original buyer is giving it
>> away, then who cares.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 5:18 AM
>> Subject: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> My computer's keyboard's been acting up, and I have my Mum's as a
>>> backup, but it doesn't have Microsoft Office on it, and I was wondering
>>> if there was a decent free word processor out there, accessible with
>>> NVDA, that I could install on that computer instead. It would be nice if
>>> it could read and edit .docx files, but I'm aware I can't have everything.
>>>
>>>
>>> The most used features in Word for me are:
>>>
>>> The Spellchecker, including a whole dictionary of words I've added so
>>> Pokémon names, anime characters' names and names I just made up don't
>>> get flagged;
>>>
>>> The word-counter;
>>>
>>> Page-breaks;
>>>
>>> Headings (mostly for aesthetic reasons).
>>>
>>> If there's something out there that does all these things, and is free
>>> and accessible, I'll be pretty happy with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: accessible word processors with NVDA

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

Well, my attached file didn't get sent. At least I don't think it did. That's annoying, as I can't get at Quentin's email.


Also, just downloaded the compatibility pack, and after installing it, tried to open one of my word files with Jarte. It opened, but all I saw was a bunch of gibberish. Is there a setting I need to tweak to make the content comprehensible? I'm using the portable version of Jarte because I'm still deciding whether it's worth installing and the option was available.

On 16/01/2017 9:08 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

Hi,


I've just made this file in Jarte itself, saved in .rtf. It behaves as I described below. Since it's a test file specifically created to demonstrate my issue, I have no problems sending it to the list at large. It's perfectly safe, guys!  

   
On 16/01/2017 8:58 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

Quentin,


I've noticed the opposite. I had Microsoft Word Starter 2010 on my original computer when I first got it, and then Microsoft Office 2013 when Mum bought me a license for one computer. NVDA always reads italics and bold as expected, only on the words that formatting is affecting. In Word Pad, saved into rtf for the purposes of reading and working with it in JARTE, the same files the emphasis is clearly announced in have it blurred. Single italicised words in the middle of lines are passed over, while words at the beginning of the line dictate whether the whole line will be treated as plain, italic or bold. When scrolling over it character by character, it doesn't do this, but when I use say-all, it behaves as I described. It may be something to do with Office messing things up even when the file's saved as rtf, but I remember noticing this a long time ago when I thought writing in word pad was my only means of writing. That resulted in me posting a chapter of a fanfiction with a whole chunk of text in italics that I never meant to be so.


I'd send a file, but your email doesn't seem to be tied to this message, only the email address of the list, and all the relevant files are of stories or parts of stories I have written. I'm quite protective of rough drafts of things...


On 16/01/2017 4:50 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Sharni,

No I'm not using anything special.  If you are re-using the same Word file over and over or the same template, it's possible there's something hidden in it that could be causing problems.  To be honest, I've more seen that in Office itself and opening a file in something other than office is more likely to fix it, but you never know.  If you have a file that's doing it, that you are happy to send me offline, I can have a look and see if it works on my computer.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Quentin, do you have any addons or something that might have changed how NVDA reads Word Pad/Jarte files? I'd be super grateful. I'd have no problem using Jarte if I could read my stories with the proper emphasis included.


On 16/01/2017 10:24 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Sharni,

Re using Jarte and the Office compatibility pack, try this link from Microsoft directly: https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/details.aspx?id=3

The en-au in the middle of that address is because I'm in Australia, feel free to change it to en-us or en-uk etc as needed, I'm not sure it makes a difference for this.

Regarding wordpad not properly identifying text attributes like Italic, what version of Windows do you have again?  I've tried in the regular stable build of Windows 10 and in the latest fast insider build (15007) and NVDA (2016.4) identifies italic etc text in the middle of a line correctly.  EG if I type:

The quick brown fox

and italicise the word "brown", NVDA reads:

The quick italic brown no italic fox.

It does this in Wordpad, Word 2016, Jarte and LibreOffice.

Note that you need to have NVDA's document formatting set to report text attributes (for italic).  Press NVDA+control+d to get to that screen.  If you don't have that set, it won't identify the text as italic regardless of where it is.

The only place I've seen behaviour similar to what you mentioned (if the start of a line is italic thinking the whole line is, and not seeing it at all if it's in the middle of a line), is if part of a cell has different formatting in Excel.

Kind regards

Quentin.



On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Thanks! As I said last night, when I tried to follow the link from the page it said "We are sorry, but the page could not be found" and gave me a ton of possible search options.


Really though, it doesn't matter what file format the document is when it comes to displaying. If I want to work in the file with Jarte, I have to save in rtf or .doc anyways. I just save a new copy in wordpad to the rtf format and then it reads it fine. I do miss announced page numbers and NVDA being nice about italics though. What I mean is, in Word Pad, if a word is italicised in the middle of a line, NVDA doesn't report it, and if it's at the beginning of a line, NVDA acts like the whole line is italicised even though it isn't. Same with bold, underline, and so on. Is there an addon that corrects this behaviour? Or will there be an improvement in NVDA in that regard? I know I'd be grateful     for it. Then Jarte would be just that bit less irritating.


On 16/01/2017 8:48 AM, Gene wrote:
You can download the installation file to allow you to work with docx files here:
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA

if you could please send the link to your dropbox, that would be very much appreciated. I also am considering using chart, but don't really want to pay the money for it partially because I don't have the money for it.

Noah Carver

> On Jan 15, 2017, at 15:16, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to caution users that use an microsoft product, ie office 2013 and up certainly it does this on 2016.
> Aparently the older software has some incompatibility when upgrading the os from one version to another.
> It tends to default extentions back to open xml viewer which itself is not helpfull.
> Worse excell refuses to be able to process file commands and can not start until you repair office.
> For the systems that had filter pack aand the compatibility pack installed, I solved this by removing both these packs then repairing office as on restart no files opened at all.
> Ever since then updates have worked as expected.
> If you are on a shared system with office.
> Every time you update the os especially when its a security update not a performance update, including newer and older office updates, you will need to repair office with the quick repair before using it again.
> I am not sure why that is but thats a way to get round it.
> If you often need a share then thats fine but if you don't it is easier to kill the extra converter packs.
> I should also want to add that I have old word xp converters for some older files that came from an xp machine that perminantly exist on my dropbox cloud, they are so small just like xp sound recorder its unlikely I will ever kill them so they stay till I die I guess.
> I have no inttention of killing them.
> The only thing you do need is sevenzip to decompress them but if someone wants to make an installer email me and I'll send the link for copywrite reasons jarte can't store those on its site but.
>
>
>> On 16/01/2017 12:20 a.m., Gene wrote:
>> It doesn't need the purchased  version.  You can install the Microsoft pack that gives Microsoft Word and some other programs the ability to read docx files.  if you try to open a Docx file, a dialog comes up telling you that.  It may provide a link in the dialog to the JARTE web page where the subject is discussed further.
>> We don't know how Word is being useed so we don't know if JARTE has all the features desired but you can read about it and install and look at the program to see if it does.
>>
>> Gene
>>
>>
>> From: Brian's Mail list account
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 4:38 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA
>>
>>
>> The thing about Jarte is that to open docx files it needs the purchased
>> version as far as I know. OOpen and Libra Office seem to be able to load in
>> docx files, but as has been discussed here of late, the authors need to do
>> some more work to allow screenreaders to work on all parts of them like read
>> all etc.
>>
>> Of course it might  be possible to find an old copy of an older version of
>> Office pro corporate which I did and it still worked aand accepted the key.
>> Legal?  Well, its a grey area isn't it. if the original buyer is giving it
>> away, then who cares.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 5:18 AM
>> Subject: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> My computer's keyboard's been acting up, and I have my Mum's as a
>>> backup, but it doesn't have Microsoft Office on it, and I was wondering
>>> if there was a decent free word processor out there, accessible with
>>> NVDA, that I could install on that computer instead. It would be nice if
>>> it could read and edit .docx files, but I'm aware I can't have everything.
>>>
>>>
>>> The most used features in Word for me are:
>>>
>>> The Spellchecker, including a whole dictionary of words I've added so
>>> Pokémon names, anime characters' names and names I just made up don't
>>> get flagged;
>>>
>>> The word-counter;
>>>
>>> Page-breaks;
>>>
>>> Headings (mostly for aesthetic reasons).
>>>
>>> If there's something out there that does all these things, and is free
>>> and accessible, I'll be pretty happy with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





Re: Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

It says system language English US, Language Locale' English UK
One assumes this means that there are rules for English always, but variations occur for different countries such as currency defaults and other stuff., like spelling dictionaries etc.
I have on more than one occasion had sent to me doc files from machines set up all over the place from Cyrillic to English us and it can be a real pain when attempting to edit such files having to check the language the template used was in to get anything sensible.
I've also found daft things going on like a line I've added apparently in English suddenly turning to what looks like Greek on print out, to the great hilarity of my sighted friends.
I guess with computers a good sense of humour and patience is needed.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob Kruger" <jacob@blindza.co.za>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released


Are you talking about system language, or keyboard language?


While my system language is generally set to english UK, or english South Africa, keyboard language is always set to english US.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2017-01-16 10:43, Shaun Everiss wrote:
I know this is a bit far fetched but has anyone been able to emulate this.
I have several machines installed win10 in new zealand languages were nz and us, and I switched to nz by default no issues there.
I am unsure but not willing to try to switch to us and see.
I have just finnished working with an old first gen i3.
Its mostly set as a windows server handling not much.
I updated as much as I could and installed as much as I could without breaking it so nothing really big like vertual machines and big network management stuff is actually loaded on it, however it was in us language, I tried to change it to nz.
I managed to get the language pack installed.
However after changing to that pack and restarting.
Windows acted really strange the keyboard stopped working right, and almost total accessability failier, until I switched back.
Once again I tried with other keyboards but no luck.
I basically tried the search box and it either didn't respond or was slow to, this was with narator to mind you and nvda in core and standard.
Also it seems that even when it did work it wouldn't accept anything to do with language or anything with enter, ie if I hit search, typed language and hit enter I'd just get the speach saying la la la la lalalalalala
All day long till I restored the system or reset via control panel the language.
I have never needed to change languages since build 10040 that was when I upgraded initially, since then its never been needed.
I also had to clear a lot of optional features from the system and somehow after killing stuff I shouldn't have add optional feature button went and I got something about typing, luckily there was a point from when I uninstalled a program that morning else I'd have to reformat and its not my pc.
I then slowly created points and redid what was needed excluding the stuff that didn't work.
One of the things I retried was the language and after having a few issues with it and finally installing it.
And then finally applying the windows update again for the updated language files, the system semi worked but the keyboard refused no matter what board I used and other languages than us.
Also apps especially universals, search boxes, store, etc loaded slowly or if they loaded the accessability functions never kicked in at least for a couple minutes.
I have ofcause an ultrafast unit here which has no issue but its not mine and again the language and board are nz and us respectively and I am not mucking round.
I also never needed to remove optional features or anything like it.
I have only once needed to remove some program features from control panel but I have never had the same issue.
I figgure the system is probably a bit slow and all the extras are making it crash so I didn't push it.
However even if most of what I say only happens on vary slow boxes there may be something in that.
I don't want to mangle an actual system, but even if I didn't load every feature and junket I'd still want to at least change the language if not for anything then the dictionaries and other office default thingies that went on.
And if not I could get round that.
I am not sure what it is.
I suspect that its the input methods and maybe a few other things.
I am close, that close I can feel it again I am so far away that I could spend all day on it.
In the end I got the system working for shipping back to its owner today.
I don't think it would look good on the contract to say because I wanted to see what this button did I'd have to reformat and such, especially since I don't use a screen at all, so I do rely on the system starting up enough to run sound and my keyboard.\

Also is it just me or is realtek.com.tw offline and has been for days now.
Skype update servers were offline today but thats ok now.
The next box I will be dealing with is a i7 with hybrid ssd and hdd, and I hope it won't have the same issue.
Naturally I will be doing the same thing, seeing if I can stress the thing by loading lots of stuff and seeing what it does.
It goes without saying though that I will be making restore points I didn't this morning so I will do so before anything major is done.
I just hope things are not as mangled as they were.
But if windows does this again, then there is a bug.
If I write back again and I hope to god I don't need to it means that I replicated the bug.
If its win10 apps or nvda then whatever.
I know there are insiders on here so if it happens to you or whatever maybe you could post a feadback, I guess I could but I havn't tracked the issue down and I will have slightly less time tomorrow than I did today to do it.
Pluss I know half of you hackers stay up all night, yes! mr lee I am looking at you right at this minute.
I am sure if it can be replicated someone can get back to me or over on the list, removing, installing features and changing languages for default language at least is not something you tend to do often.
If it can be done, at least I do hope that programs that need it detect and run the language pack even if windows just doesn't do so.



On 16/01/2017 4:42 p.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,



To tell you the truth, Windows 10 App Essentials will not work under
anything other than Windows 10 build 10586 (Version 1511) or later.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 7:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



I will when the new version comes out.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: January-15-17 5:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi,

Trying installing it in Windows 7.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 3:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi, could windows 7 users use it too?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: January-15-17 7:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi,

Yes, you have Anniversary Update, so go ahead and use 17.01.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rémy Ruiz
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 4:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi Joseph!
Thanks, i am using:
14393.693)
If I understand correctly, I can now cheerfully pass this new version:
Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01
Thanks again for all!
Have a good day!
Cheers since France.
Rémy

Le 14/01/2017 20:53, Joseph Lee a écrit :

Hi,

Open Start, type “winver” (without quotes) and press ENTER. If you are
hearing builds other than 1024, 10586 and 14393, you are running an Insider
Preview build.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rémy Ruiz
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 released



Hi Josephe,
Thanks for jour job!
Sorry how to know if i am using Windows Insider build?
For me Windows ten is new! :)
Thanks very much.
Cheers since France.
Rémy

Le 14/01/2017 18:08, Joseph Lee a écrit :

Hi everyone,



Windows 10 App Essentials 17.01 is now available:

https://github.com/josephsl/wintenApps/releases/tag/17.01



Important: if you are using Windows Insider build 15002 or later, please do
NOT use this build – you should either use the latest development snapshot
or wait until add-on 17.02 comes out. Also, this version is the last one to
support NVDA 2016.3 or earlier.

Cheers,

Joseph











Re: accessible word processors with NVDA

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

Hi,


I've just made this file in Jarte itself, saved in .rtf. It behaves as I described below. Since it's a test file specifically created to demonstrate my issue, I have no problems sending it to the list at large. It's perfectly safe, guys!  

   

On 16/01/2017 8:58 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

Quentin,


I've noticed the opposite. I had Microsoft Word Starter 2010 on my original computer when I first got it, and then Microsoft Office 2013 when Mum bought me a license for one computer. NVDA always reads italics and bold as expected, only on the words that formatting is affecting. In Word Pad, saved into rtf for the purposes of reading and working with it in JARTE, the same files the emphasis is clearly announced in have it blurred. Single italicised words in the middle of lines are passed over, while words at the beginning of the line dictate whether the whole line will be treated as plain, italic or bold. When scrolling over it character by character, it doesn't do this, but when I use say-all, it behaves as I described. It may be something to do with Office messing things up even when the file's saved as rtf, but I remember noticing this a long time ago when I thought writing in word pad was my only means of writing. That resulted in me posting a chapter of a fanfiction with a whole chunk of text in italics that I never meant to be so.


I'd send a file, but your email doesn't seem to be tied to this message, only the email address of the list, and all the relevant files are of stories or parts of stories I have written. I'm quite protective of rough drafts of things...


On 16/01/2017 4:50 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Sharni,

No I'm not using anything special.  If you are re-using the same Word file over and over or the same template, it's possible there's something hidden in it that could be causing problems.  To be honest, I've more seen that in Office itself and opening a file in something other than office is more likely to fix it, but you never know.  If you have a file that's doing it, that you are happy to send me offline, I can have a look and see if it works on my computer.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Quentin, do you have any addons or something that might have changed how NVDA reads Word Pad/Jarte files? I'd be super grateful. I'd have no problem using Jarte if I could read my stories with the proper emphasis included.


On 16/01/2017 10:24 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Sharni,

Re using Jarte and the Office compatibility pack, try this link from Microsoft directly: https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/details.aspx?id=3

The en-au in the middle of that address is because I'm in Australia, feel free to change it to en-us or en-uk etc as needed, I'm not sure it makes a difference for this.

Regarding wordpad not properly identifying text attributes like Italic, what version of Windows do you have again?  I've tried in the regular stable build of Windows 10 and in the latest fast insider build (15007) and NVDA (2016.4) identifies italic etc text in the middle of a line correctly.  EG if I type:

The quick brown fox

and italicise the word "brown", NVDA reads:

The quick italic brown no italic fox.

It does this in Wordpad, Word 2016, Jarte and LibreOffice.

Note that you need to have NVDA's document formatting set to report text attributes (for italic).  Press NVDA+control+d to get to that screen.  If you don't have that set, it won't identify the text as italic regardless of where it is.

The only place I've seen behaviour similar to what you mentioned (if the start of a line is italic thinking the whole line is, and not seeing it at all if it's in the middle of a line), is if part of a cell has different formatting in Excel.

Kind regards

Quentin.



On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

Thanks! As I said last night, when I tried to follow the link from the page it said "We are sorry, but the page could not be found" and gave me a ton of possible search options.


Really though, it doesn't matter what file format the document is when it comes to displaying. If I want to work in the file with Jarte, I have to save in rtf or .doc anyways. I just save a new copy in wordpad to the rtf format and then it reads it fine. I do miss announced page numbers and NVDA being nice about italics though. What I mean is, in Word Pad, if a word is italicised in the middle of a line, NVDA doesn't report it, and if it's at the beginning of a line, NVDA acts like the whole line is italicised even though it isn't. Same with bold, underline, and so on. Is there an addon that corrects this behaviour? Or will there be an improvement in NVDA in that regard? I know I'd be grateful     for it. Then Jarte would be just that bit less irritating.


On 16/01/2017 8:48 AM, Gene wrote:
You can download the installation file to allow you to work with docx files here:
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA

if you could please send the link to your dropbox, that would be very much appreciated. I also am considering using chart, but don't really want to pay the money for it partially because I don't have the money for it.

Noah Carver

> On Jan 15, 2017, at 15:16, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to caution users that use an microsoft product, ie office 2013 and up certainly it does this on 2016.
> Aparently the older software has some incompatibility when upgrading the os from one version to another.
> It tends to default extentions back to open xml viewer which itself is not helpfull.
> Worse excell refuses to be able to process file commands and can not start until you repair office.
> For the systems that had filter pack aand the compatibility pack installed, I solved this by removing both these packs then repairing office as on restart no files opened at all.
> Ever since then updates have worked as expected.
> If you are on a shared system with office.
> Every time you update the os especially when its a security update not a performance update, including newer and older office updates, you will need to repair office with the quick repair before using it again.
> I am not sure why that is but thats a way to get round it.
> If you often need a share then thats fine but if you don't it is easier to kill the extra converter packs.
> I should also want to add that I have old word xp converters for some older files that came from an xp machine that perminantly exist on my dropbox cloud, they are so small just like xp sound recorder its unlikely I will ever kill them so they stay till I die I guess.
> I have no inttention of killing them.
> The only thing you do need is sevenzip to decompress them but if someone wants to make an installer email me and I'll send the link for copywrite reasons jarte can't store those on its site but.
>
>
>> On 16/01/2017 12:20 a.m., Gene wrote:
>> It doesn't need the purchased  version.  You can install the Microsoft pack that gives Microsoft Word and some other programs the ability to read docx files.  if you try to open a Docx file, a dialog comes up telling you that.  It may provide a link in the dialog to the JARTE web page where the subject is discussed further.
>> We don't know how Word is being useed so we don't know if JARTE has all the features desired but you can read about it and install and look at the program to see if it does.
>>
>> Gene
>>
>>
>> From: Brian's Mail list account
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 4:38 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA
>>
>>
>> The thing about Jarte is that to open docx files it needs the purchased
>> version as far as I know. OOpen and Libra Office seem to be able to load in
>> docx files, but as has been discussed here of late, the authors need to do
>> some more work to allow screenreaders to work on all parts of them like read
>> all etc.
>>
>> Of course it might  be possible to find an old copy of an older version of
>> Office pro corporate which I did and it still worked aand accepted the key.
>> Legal?  Well, its a grey area isn't it. if the original buyer is giving it
>> away, then who cares.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 5:18 AM
>> Subject: [nvda] accessible word processors with NVDA
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> My computer's keyboard's been acting up, and I have my Mum's as a
>>> backup, but it doesn't have Microsoft Office on it, and I was wondering
>>> if there was a decent free word processor out there, accessible with
>>> NVDA, that I could install on that computer instead. It would be nice if
>>> it could read and edit .docx files, but I'm aware I can't have everything.
>>>
>>>
>>> The most used features in Word for me are:
>>>
>>> The Spellchecker, including a whole dictionary of words I've added so
>>> Pokémon names, anime characters' names and names I just made up don't
>>> get flagged;
>>>
>>> The word-counter;
>>>
>>> Page-breaks;
>>>
>>> Headings (mostly for aesthetic reasons).
>>>
>>> If there's something out there that does all these things, and is free
>>> and accessible, I'll be pretty happy with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess