Date   

Anyone used Portable apps.com with NVDA?

Mr. Wong Chi Wai <cwwong.pro@...>
 

Hi,

I have problem in selecting apps from the portable apps.com software interface.

When first launch or later, you can select some apps to download as portable but it seems it cannot be selected by pressing space bar....

Any advice? thanks.


AW: AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Eigeldinger Simon <simon.eigeldinger@...>
 

Hi,

Realy?
Seems i got used to espeak so much that i even not notice that.
I use the german language and max as the voice variant.

Greetings,
Simon


Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: enes sarıbaş [mailto:enes.saribas@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 10:40
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

hi,
yes, it does sound very different.

On 4/20/2016 8:28 AM, Eigeldinger Simon wrote:
Hi David,

I have the feeling it sounds the same as before.
Using espeak ng now on 3 computers and they seem not to have changed.



Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: David Goldfield [mailto:david.goldfield@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 01:32
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Hello.
I noticed that ESpeak has a more harsher sound to it with the latest
next and master versions, compared to 2016.1 and earlier releases. I
have filed a ticket about this and it seems like some people are
noticing it on some machines while others are not. I suppose I can get
used to it but I find it just so much harsher and am wondering what
others who are running these versions perceive?







LIST UNDER EMERGENCY

Christo Vorster
 

Hello Joseph, and list

 

I am one of the guilty parties and wish to apologise if my posts was out of line as far as this list is concerned. I will refrain from off topic discussions in futere.

 

Having said that, I support the suggestion of a possible sub-list to be used for off topic chats.

 

Cheers

 

Christo


Re: IMPORTANT: This list is now under emergency mode #adminnotice

Christo Vorster
 

Hello Joseph, and list

 

I am one of the guilty parties and wish to apologise if my posts was out of line as far as this list is concerned. I will refrain from off topic discussions in futere.

 

Having said that, I support the suggestion of a possible sub-list to be used for off topic chats.

 

Cheers

 

Christo

 

From: Joseph Lee [mailto:joseph.lee22590@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 20 April 2016 8:04 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] IMPORTANT: This list is now under emergency mode #AdminNotice #ModNotice

 

Dear members of the NVDA community and members of this forum:

 

First, thank you for your valuable posts for the past few days.

 

It has been brought to our attention that we’re straying way off topic from the purpose of this forum, stemming from a discussion that the moderator has intervened. A few hours later, someone started discussing a topic that didn’t fit the subject line to a point where we’ve started discussing other topics.

 

For the past few hours, Joseph Lee (the moderator/associate owner) was debating whether to declare an emergency, a first of its kind for this forum. An emergency mode means all off-topic posts are closed immediately. He says that, as the chair of the committee in charge of NVDACon preparations, he felt uneasy regarding this, seeing that this could have an impact on the reputation of NVDA, NVDACon and this forum.

 

Thus, Joseph Lee says:

 

I, Joseph Lee, seeing the current situation on the NVDA list and due to an important event that’ll take place in less than 48 hours from now, hereby declare that an emergency exists in NVDA International Users Forum. Any off-topic subjects discussed for the past few hours, shortly after the moderator’s declaration on April 18, 2016, are hereby nullified (threads closed). This emergency will be lifted once the leadership team (Nimer Jaber and Joseph Lee) determine that the conditions for emergency mode is no more.

 

Joseph speaking:

 

On mailing lists I’m a moderator of, I usually allow some off-topic posts. But what we saw for the past few hours has been something that is beyond words. Perhaps I’m feeling the stress while organizing NVDACon 2016 (which has been in the works for the past six months), perhaps I’m feeling academic stress, perhaps I’m worried too much about the reputation of this forum and what not. For the past few days, I’ve been thinking about current state of this community and what we can do to make it better, as well as to help NV Access and other members of the NVDA community have a joyful year throughout 2016 as we celebrate NVDA’s tenth anniversary. To put it bluntly, I’m very disappointed at the state of NVDA International Users Forum, and to put it nicely, we’re in the danger of alienating potential community members due to our conduct (and some people did leave our list). If this happened at another time, it would have ended with a letter; but we’re living in the eve of NVDA Users and Developers Conference 2016 (tenth Anniversary Edition), an important event that’ll serve as an important occasion for each and every one of us to unite under NVDA, its history, future potential and celebrating its features. To find an international forum conducting ourselves like this at the eve of this important event is, to me, a huge public relations disaster (and I’m not saying this lightly).

 

At this moment I’d like to kindly ask that we ask ourselves the following: how did this happen, why is this happening, and what can we do?

 

Thus, for the sake of NV Access, rest of the NVDA community, NVDACon organizers and for other users around the world, I’d like to sincerely request that we show ourselves as model users and community members throughout NVDACon days and beyond (like many of you, I’d like to see NVDACon become a successful gathering).

 

If you have any questions, commetns or concerns regarding the emergency mode, please let Nimer and I (Joseph Lee) now via email at nvda+owner@groups.io. Thank you.

 

Sincerely,

Joseph S. Lee

Moderator, NVDA International Users Forum

Translator, code contributor and community add-ons reviewer, NVDA screen reader project

Chair, NVDA Tenth Anniversary Planning Committee

 


Re: AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

enes sarıbaş
 

hi,
yes, it does sound very different.

On 4/20/2016 8:28 AM, Eigeldinger Simon wrote:
Hi David,

I have the feeling it sounds the same as before.
Using espeak ng now on 3 computers and they seem not to have changed.



Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: David Goldfield [mailto:david.goldfield@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 01:32
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Hello.
I noticed that ESpeak has a more harsher sound to it with the latest
next and master versions, compared to 2016.1 and earlier releases. I
have filed a ticket about this and it seems like some people are
noticing it on some machines while others are not. I suppose I can get
used to it but I find it just so much harsher and am wondering what
others who are running these versions perceive?






installation failure, still

marvin kotler
 

    Good evening/morning list.  This is Marv here.  First, I am running a laptop with the latest nvda file and vista home premium.  I cannot get nvda to install.  I keep getting a failure message in the log file.  I really does not tell me very much.  Any ideas on what I might try would be appreciated; thanks in advance.
 


Re: NVDACon 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition, Thursday, 21 April 2016 #cal-reminder

 

Hi,

Yes, this is indeed happening: first session (conference opener/open forum) will start on April 22, 2016 at 00:00 UTC sharp (5:00 PM Pacific on the 21st, 8 PM Eastern and elsewhere).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: Nvda Calendar [mailto:noreply@groups.io]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 11:59 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDACon 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition, Thursday, 21 April 2016 #cal-reminder

 

"NVDACon 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition" Reminder

When:

Thursday, 21 April 2016

Where:

NVDA Korea TeamTalk Server

Description:

You are cordially invited to attend NVDA Users and Developers Conference (NVDACon) 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition. This is a great opportunity to celebrate NVDA's tenth anniversary, reflect upon NVDA's accomplishments, and look forward to the future of this free, open-source, community-driven screen reader. Learn more about NVDA's history and vision from lead developers, find out how companies such as Mozilla have assisted NVDA development, get a chance to talk to authors of your favorite add-ons and more.

For more information on NVDACon, visit www.nvda-kr.org/en/nvdacon.php. We the conference organizers, NV Access and the NVDA community look forward to meeting you at NVDACon 2016.

Sincerely, NVDA Tenth Anniversary Planning Committee


NVDACon 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition, Thursday, 21 April 2016 #cal-reminder

Nvda Calendar <noreply@...>
 

"NVDACon 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition" Reminder

When: Thursday, 21 April 2016
Where: NVDA Korea TeamTalk Server
Description:

You are cordially invited to attend NVDA Users and Developers Conference (NVDACon) 2016/Tenth Anniversary Edition. This is a great opportunity to celebrate NVDA's tenth anniversary, reflect upon NVDA's accomplishments, and look forward to the future of this free, open-source, community-driven screen reader. Learn more about NVDA's history and vision from lead developers, find out how companies such as Mozilla have assisted NVDA development, get a chance to talk to authors of your favorite add-ons and more.

For more information on NVDACon, visit www.nvda-kr.org/en/nvdacon.php. We the conference organizers, NV Access and the NVDA community look forward to meeting you at NVDACon 2016.

Sincerely, NVDA Tenth Anniversary Planning Committee


IMPORTANT: This list is now under emergency mode #adminnotice

 

Dear members of the NVDA community and members of this forum:

 

First, thank you for your valuable posts for the past few days.

 

It has been brought to our attention that we’re straying way off topic from the purpose of this forum, stemming from a discussion that the moderator has intervened. A few hours later, someone started discussing a topic that didn’t fit the subject line to a point where we’ve started discussing other topics.

 

For the past few hours, Joseph Lee (the moderator/associate owner) was debating whether to declare an emergency, a first of its kind for this forum. An emergency mode means all off-topic posts are closed immediately. He says that, as the chair of the committee in charge of NVDACon preparations, he felt uneasy regarding this, seeing that this could have an impact on the reputation of NVDA, NVDACon and this forum.

 

Thus, Joseph Lee says:

 

I, Joseph Lee, seeing the current situation on the NVDA list and due to an important event that’ll take place in less than 48 hours from now, hereby declare that an emergency exists in NVDA International Users Forum. Any off-topic subjects discussed for the past few hours, shortly after the moderator’s declaration on April 18, 2016, are hereby nullified (threads closed). This emergency will be lifted once the leadership team (Nimer Jaber and Joseph Lee) determine that the conditions for emergency mode is no more.

 

Joseph speaking:

 

On mailing lists I’m a moderator of, I usually allow some off-topic posts. But what we saw for the past few hours has been something that is beyond words. Perhaps I’m feeling the stress while organizing NVDACon 2016 (which has been in the works for the past six months), perhaps I’m feeling academic stress, perhaps I’m worried too much about the reputation of this forum and what not. For the past few days, I’ve been thinking about current state of this community and what we can do to make it better, as well as to help NV Access and other members of the NVDA community have a joyful year throughout 2016 as we celebrate NVDA’s tenth anniversary. To put it bluntly, I’m very disappointed at the state of NVDA International Users Forum, and to put it nicely, we’re in the danger of alienating potential community members due to our conduct (and some people did leave our list). If this happened at another time, it would have ended with a letter; but we’re living in the eve of NVDA Users and Developers Conference 2016 (tenth Anniversary Edition), an important event that’ll serve as an important occasion for each and every one of us to unite under NVDA, its history, future potential and celebrating its features. To find an international forum conducting ourselves like this at the eve of this important event is, to me, a huge public relations disaster (and I’m not saying this lightly).

 

At this moment I’d like to kindly ask that we ask ourselves the following: how did this happen, why is this happening, and what can we do?

 

Thus, for the sake of NV Access, rest of the NVDA community, NVDACon organizers and for other users around the world, I’d like to sincerely request that we show ourselves as model users and community members throughout NVDACon days and beyond (like many of you, I’d like to see NVDACon become a successful gathering).

 

If you have any questions, commetns or concerns regarding the emergency mode, please let Nimer and I (Joseph Lee) now via email at nvda+owner@groups.io. Thank you.

 

Sincerely,

Joseph S. Lee

Moderator, NVDA International Users Forum

Translator, code contributor and community add-ons reviewer, NVDA screen reader project

Chair, NVDA Tenth Anniversary Planning Committee

 


locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

 

And that is what I liked about it.
the ability to gut your own software, all the fun is kind a gone out of it, with the registry and libraries.
If it stuffs then you can't ripp out a module and change it, its all or nothing.
It doesn't happen often that things really go, but when they do its devistating.
the os is to complex to find what a module does anymore.
If it screws its faster to restore an image or just reformat and hope it doesn't go nuts again.
In the early days, things didn't misbehave much but it was easy enough to just clear the issue without disturbing the os.
Had a friend get scared and turn off his computer because he had never heard the drive scan at all before.
Managed to wreck his mbr and os image.
I upgraded his os, and put his old configs back.
He lost nothing and gained a new os upgrade.
Another time a shareware program at a school I was at expired and went off and took out the os at startup.
I was able to remoove the offending lines and then uninstall the app, weell till I got permition to buy and install a full one.
Everything in windows is central which is fun till it fails which granted it doesn't often so you have more time to do mails like this and not babysitting.
However if it fails it can be solved maybe or it may be easier to restart and hope after a full reformat and program update of everything you think is the issue that it well works.
And if you are lucky it will for a time.

On 20/04/2016 3:48 p.m., David Moore wrote:
Hi guys,
I remember those good-old days well. When I went to college in the 80's,
I had the 720 KB floppy disks. I had DOS, a synthesizer, and a Pascal
interpreter on one of those floppies. I remember when Ohio State got a
few IBM AT's with a 1 meg hard drive, and one could put everything
imaginable on it. MS then thought that one would never need more than a
few meg for everything they had. Windows OS sure changed all of that for
sure. Also, computer programs were very concise then. The programmer
tried to have as few lines of code as possible so that space would be
conserved. Now, because of all the room we have on our systems,
programmers have many lines of code that is not necessary. Teachers who
said to write only one page made it much harder for me to summarize
everything in that little bit of space. I would imagine that it was
harder for programmers in the 80's to summarize everything in as few
lines of code as possible. We do have way more room than we need. Also,
videos and audio files could be made much more compressed if people did
not expect HD video quality and the best audio quality. You brought back
a lot of good memories. Jobs for the blind were plentiful in computers
in the dos days, because everything was text and command driven instead
of a five year old being able to point at an icon and click. Many more
people can use the computer, but it has made it harder for the blind to
use new computers. It seems like technology is trying to make everything
easier and easier for the sighted, but at the same time, it makes it
much more adventurous for the blind. But there is a lot of good that has
come out of this. Artificial intelligence will enable the blind to do
many tasks in the next ten years like driving a car. We have to look at
the glass half full and look toward a totally different future than we
had in the 80's. Thanks for some good memories. Take care.


-----Original Message----- From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 8:41 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding
Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

To be honest you'd be surprised what I had back in the day.
While I didn't use windows 3.11 or anything, I had wordprefect 5.1
though didn't use it much as I had a keynote gold 1850 and used keysoft
1 and mastertouch 1 for my work.
I had a 80mb drive then when that died a 60 mb drive.
I was able with drivespace from dos 6.22 to compress the drive to round
110-130mb and then ran compressed.
On that drive, I had wordprefect with documents, dos 6.22, a coppy of
norton utilities 7 later upgraded to 8.
quarterdec expanded memmory manager version 8.0, several games and
interpriters to run them, at least 5mb worth of utilities some made in
house by someone I knew at the time.
And I still had space.
I knew friends that had old office 4, works version 2, several games, in
fact most of the 500mb drive they had was games, both for windows and dos.
a cd drive, and soundblaster etc.
What you must remember is that 125mb was actually quite a lot.
The biggest programs were never more than 10-20mb however, remember that
dialup stuff means that 1-5mb was rather big in those days.
Your os was on 3 disks and if you had the suplimentals 4.
My toshiba had its own utilities disk and origional os disk.
all 1.44mb ofcause wordperfect came on 6 720kb disks.
2 disk for the printer.
1 for the dictionary.
1 for the printer program.
1 for the wordperfect program itself.
1 for the graphics components
1 for the installers, utilities, graphics drivers, basic graphics files,
text driver, and fonts.
The installer also created all the network files itself, modified My
compressed 110mb drive actually had a lot on it though 95% of it was for
fun I even had x tree gold.
The thing with the modern system is that everything got bigger once
windows became its own opperating system and not a dumb dos shell.
True programs were written for it but even so.
Up to windows 98 in fact windows did still use a stripped down version
of dos, each version having less and less.
Windows me had a really stripped down version of dos that with a little
hacking you could be made to access.
From windows 2000 on windows was its own os though the nt based os we
all know and love now existed it was for network users.
configurations etc.
The major advantage with the 9x systems was you could run just about
everything or anything and the system would not care.
Ofcause you didn't have the driver library for things like flash drives
and the like and usb support in fact didn't exist when win95 came out
but even so I kinda liked it.
No intercepts, and no real issue.
Later on with all the security protection etc that came with windows,
you got a lot of broken chains and issues with screenreaders running
together and uninstalling and the like.
You could do it if you knew what you were doing but it was unstable.
If you screwed up, then you could redo the chain but you would have to
reload the display and start again and then or reformat which is what
happened whenever I forgot to run things in the right order or at once
which was easy to do hotkeys and all.
With the dcm mirror system you can't do this anymore because its all
library driven.
And with uia now you definately can not cause any real issue.
That may actually be one change and only a reason that would get me to
upgrade to another os though the mirror system works just fine.
Ofcause with nvda and things that directly access the components of the
windows os all those off screen models and the like are bypassed though
you can loose some vertual modes and the stuff for some of the access
things have changed.
Programs are relying on web components for starters and thats where it
is at.
Eventually we may se an os based on the web and as long as that is
accessible it may not be that bad.



On 20/04/2016 11:41 a.m., David Moore wrote:
Hi,
With a 125 meg hard drive, how can you even have any programs or
documents on there? Do you back them up to a floppy disk?


From: Carlos
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 7:11 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding
Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Hello Again:

A description of my PC:



*Packard Bell Legend V

*386SX 16MHz Processor

*125 Megabyte Hard Disk

*EGA Video Card

*14 Inch Monitor

*Sound Blaster I Sound Card

*101 PS/2 Keyboard/Logitech Three Button Mouse w/Rubber Ball on
Bottom


*Windows 3.11/MS DOS 6.22

*Norton Commander 5, Microsoft Office Professional

*NVDA 5.x




Long live the 90's!!!


*


On 4/18/2016 3:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who
insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was
that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than
Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what
you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the
annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows.
The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in
XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7
forward. And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions
of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as
strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are
required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near
it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and was
in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her
birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go
through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they
were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the
cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just
short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very
familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came
before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents
experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my
only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer
and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian






.


locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

Well when I got a new system it was 8.1 but I got it at the end of the 7 downgrade offer.
If you had 8.1 you had a reason go go to 10 win8x never hit me well.

On 20/04/2016 3:10 p.m., David Moore wrote:
I went from XP to 8.1. The reason why is that I bought a new computer
when Windows Vista was out, and everyone told me to keep XP. So I
actually had XP put into the computer and paid more for doing that
instead of having Vista. By the time I bought a new computer, Windows
8.1 was being put in all new computers. I did used windows 7 at work.
Now, I have win10 and I definitely like it better than all of the other
windows versions, even better than using 8.1 at home and 7 at work. Take
care.


-----Original Message----- From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 10:57 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?

My old XP computer was ready to bite the dust too. That's how I ended up
going to windows 7. Now I'm on 10 and I love it.



-----Original Message-----
From: Arlene [mailto:nedster66@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 5:11 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?

That is good to know. Still blind people who wine have no reason to do
so. But tit's good to learn should you end up with win ten. Just like
wen my xp box bit the dust I ended up with 7.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Moore [mailto:jesusloves1966@...]
Sent: April-19-16 3:01 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?

Hi Rosemarie and all,
Every time MS produces a new version of windows, Freedom Scientific's
web site has many tutorials and free webinars on there about how to use
a new version of windows. NVDA users can learn jus as much from these
tutorials, because all of the concepts are the same. Using NVDA does not
have anything to do with using a new version of windows. If anyone wants
to look at the training Freedom Scientific has for win10, here is the
link to their web
site:
www.freedomscientific.com
Just find the training link and on that page, there is all kinds of
recorded material that walks you through using many programs with JAWS,
but you can learn just as much if you use NVDA. Take care.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 5:45 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?

Yes, change can be scary at times. When I upgraded from XP to windows 7,
I wondered if I'd ever be able to learn it. After buying the book and
playing with windows 7, I found it easier to type a program I wanted
into the search box.



-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss [mailto:@smeveriss]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 1:56 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?

Hmmm interesting way to put it.
Lazy, how about frightened, I am certainly scared.
Not wanting, well I have several comercial programs, an advanced screen
reader, and a few other apps which will cost some cash every system
change, so I do actually want to keep going till I need to update those.
Now if someone offered me like a super deal out of the blue then yeah I
am a sucker for packages so I would take it.
Another issue is the environment you are in.
My home environment has users in it who have not and are not wanting to
change.
The same tasks I have been doing for the last while will continue to be
the same and I see no reason to bother changing, ofcause its like I am
in a stagnent pool.
Life is that pool, its not moved much since I left university.
There is only so many positions in that pool you can be in.
There are not that many.



On 19/04/2016 8:40 p.m., Christo Vorster wrote:
Hi Angela

I agree with you, but such are people universally. There will always
be people who will make comments on what others say.

I think that deep down, most of us who are resistant to change are
somewhat lazy to learn new things, but so be it. It doesn't mean that
it make you a lazy person. Often the term "lazy" actually means "just
not wanting".

The saying goes: "a change is as good as a holiday", so lets enjoy our
changes, when we make them.

My opinion: if you want to change, do it. If you don't want to, do it.
The choice always is yours. I just feel that those wanting to change
just for the sake of change must take the consequences if they make a
wrong choice and in the same way, we who don't want to change, leave
us alone.

Sometimes you find people, especially concerning computer software,
who look down on those not using the same programs as they do. My
approach towards them is just to leave them be.

To be honest, I experienced it with many JAWS-users, and believe me, I
used JAWS until I was forced to upgrade to Win 10, because that is
what we teach at the college where I am employed. Please don't get me
wrong, I don't regret changing to NVDA, I am very happy and believe
that NVDA is a much better package, but the people I refer to, am of
the opinion that I am stupid, and then many of them are using
illegitimate copies.

Have a nice day

Christo

-----Original Message-----
From: Angela Delicata via Groups.io
[mailto:angeladelicata=libero.it@groups.io]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 10:20 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?

Always the same old discussions you can find on a mailing list for blind.
I will say my opinion: I am not against change, I am just lazy to
learn new stuff and do it only when it is really necessary.
I am not perfect, but only God is.
I think one can use whatever program he/she likes and everyone's
choice must be respected.

I wish I would never read such things anymore, but blind are hard to
change.

Ciao
Angela from Italy

Il 19/04/2016 ha scritto:


Van: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2016 4:14
Aan: nvda@groups.io
Onderwerp: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?



I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the
sake of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs
won't work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable
will the new programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook
express and when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was
hesitent because I did not know what email program would work and be
accessable. I did of course upgrade and used windows live mail and
when I began to have issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now
have windows 10 and I still use thunderbird. I think that the reason
that we all like outlook express isthat it is just a simple email
program with nobells and whistles like calendars or features that we
don't need or can't use. Outlook express will always be the best
email program but we have adapted to other programs but that does not
mean that we are happy with them we just adjust. We all don't like
change but we can and do adapt but we don't like it. With new
versions of windows there may be features that we don't need or want
or we can't use but we use what we want to use or what we can use. I
know that every one has their screen reader of choice and they think
that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp
it's no longer supported but I still have not been convinced that
there is a better program so I will just keep using it.
We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced
upon us this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they
don't have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice
and so is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are
willing to take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I
got this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me how
to find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start
button, much frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating
doing the upgrade to Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what
I was getting into before doing it.

Pauline



On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted
on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it
was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than
Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what
you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the
annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows.
The number of things that require manual intervention from the user
in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7
forward.
And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows
the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the
differences, but the differences are where people are required to
learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near
it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and
was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at
her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go
through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they
were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the
cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just
short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very
familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came
before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents
experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my
only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer
and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian










---
Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast
antivirus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

























.


Re: topics straying out of NVDA territory

 

Well I enjoy debates like this especially since its not gone to a flame war.
I didn't think of a sub though travis did, I wouldn't mind an offtopic group as long as it doesn't generate to much.
On that note if it ever got to much we could always have a pun bb hosted forum for nvda with rooms for general chat off topic and various places though that could be in the future.

On 20/04/2016 5:23 p.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

This is the reason why we had subgroup proposals in the first place. But
more importantly, I'm debating whether to declare an emergency or not after
asking Nimer.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: Kwork [mailto:istherelife@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 9:59 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] topics straying out of NVDA territory



I'm noticing that we're straying away on many of these discussions from
actually discussing NVDA. With groups.io, sub groups can be created.
Moderators, just a suggestion: what about creating an NVDA chat subgroup for
those who are members of this list, and who want to keep things off topic
for the main list? I personally don't mind using my delete key, but would
rather use it for topics I'm just not interested in rather than trying to
figure out which topics of departed from actual NVDA discussion. Just a
suggestion.

Travis




Re: orbit reader 20

 

Hmmm almost forgot abbout that.
Yeah somethingg I will have to save for.

On 20/04/2016 2:40 p.m., Josh Kennedy wrote:
hey when the orbit reader 20 braille display comes out then refreshable
braille wil be much more affordable.


Re: affordable change

 

ok I will look at that.

On 20/04/2016 2:37 p.m., Josh Kennedy wrote:
hi
if you want something inexpensive to try out windows10 on you could get
yourself an RCA cambio tablet they are $100 at walmart.com . its a touch
screen tablet that plugs into a physical keyboard using magnets. you get
a 32gig ssd plus up to 64gigs micro sd card slot and one usb port and
one micro usb port. and windows 10 home. so you can snap the tablet into
the keyboard dock and use it as a laptop or disconnect the tablet and
use it touch screen only with NVDA if you wish. it gets 6 or so hours on
a battery charge it has a quad core adam processor 2gigs of ram. the
battery is replaceable.


Re: topics straying out of NVDA territory

 

Why didn't I think of that.
I do think an offtopic group for debates and other stuff would be a good idea.
I also think issues should be aired.
If one is created I'll vote for it.
Thanks for that travis I had forgot about that, I used to belong to a chat group but there was to much traffic on it so quit but I do enjoy this, I am just waiting for it to close but yeah your idea so you bring it to the mods and see what they say.
You have a suppoorter at any rate.

On 20/04/2016 4:59 p.m., Kwork wrote:
I'm noticing that we're straying away on many of these discussions from actually discussing NVDA. With groups.io, sub groups can be created. Moderators, just a suggestion: what about creating an NVDA chat subgroup for those who are members of this list, and who want to keep things off topic for the main list? I personally don't mind using my delete key, but would rather use it for topics I'm just not interested in rather than trying to figure out which topics of departed from actual NVDA discussion. Just a suggestion.
Travis


locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

hmmm what exactly do I need to do to use the menus like I am used to.
I know that once I do actually upgrade I will need to get used too the shortcuts which ofcause I have not bothered to master just yet but I am sure once I have this down pat somee of my issues will probably be smashed.

On 20/04/2016 2:36 p.m., Robert Mendoza wrote:
yes, you can still use the typical view in the tool bar of your menu bar
like File, Edit, View, and etc. There is a portion that you need to
check it to in order to show it in your toolbar.

Robert Mendoza

On 4/20/2016 10:03 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Chris Shook asked: "So, are you guys telling me that the file menu in
internet explorer is now a ribbon? If so, where is the favorites menu
located?"

The File Menu, along with the Edit, View, Favorites, Tools, and Help
Menus in IE11 remain precisely as they've been for a very long time.
The keyboard shortcuts to access them remain unchanged. It's still
ALT+A to access the Favorites menu if you're using the keyboard
shortcut method. IE11 is the version of Internet Explorer that ships
with Windows 10 and has been "the latest and greatest" version of that
program on Win7 and Win8/8.1 for a while now.

Since Microsoft seems to be determined to retire Internet Explorer
over the long term, replacing it by Edge, it's not likely to change
much for other than security patches.

Brian


AW: Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Eigeldinger Simon <simon.eigeldinger@...>
 

Hi David,

I have the feeling it sounds the same as before.
Using espeak ng now on 3 computers and they seem not to have changed.



Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Simon Eigeldinger
Sekretariat Nebengebäude 2
Nebengebäude 2, OG1
-------------------------
Stadt Hohenems
Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4
6845 Hohenems
Österreich
Tel.: +43 (0)5576/7101-1211
Fax: +43 (0)5576/7101-1119
E-Mail: simon.eigeldinger@...
Web: www.hohenems.at

Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: David Goldfield [mailto:david.goldfield@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. April 2016 01:32
An: nvda@groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Question/Do You Hear a Difference with ESpeak with the new Master and Next Versions?

Hello.
I noticed that ESpeak has a more harsher sound to it with the latest
next and master versions, compared to 2016.1 and earlier releases. I
have filed a ticket about this and it seems like some people are
noticing it on some machines while others are not. I suppose I can get
used to it but I find it just so much harsher and am wondering what
others who are running these versions perceive?


Re: cambio tablets

 

While not exactly windows after the reviews Ii have heard about it I have been tempted to try the amazon fire tablet which only costs 50 us dollars and is a cheap tablet but seems to handle things itself.
While not windows it seams after sideloading the google play store onto it that it is a valid bit of tech for variious tasks.
My other thing would be the raspberry pie with windows iot or linux of some description though thhat costs a little more.

On 20/04/2016 3:40 p.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
That's interesting. I haven't heard of the Cambio tablet.



-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Kennedy [mailto:joshknnd1982@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 7:42 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] cambio tablets

i forgot to mention the cambio tablet is a tablet when you want it to be a tablet and snap it into its keyboard dock and it turns into a laptop pc when you want it to be a laptop pc. when its a tablet win10 goes into tablet mode and when its snapped into its keyboard dock windows 10 switches you into desktop mode automatically. its win 10 home.


locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

Such organisations do not exist in new zealand or at least I have never had them advertised.
There are off lease units geared for business with low specs or you can buy old systems on our version of ebay but you wouuldn't know the history.
Sadly that may be where I end up.
An old system with an old os, unless ms continues to give win10 for free or I can get something new and have thhe cash.



On 20/04/2016 2:55 p.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Arleen,

My friend in Main got a windows 7 computer from this place in Texas called Computers for the Blind. If she had bought it at a store like Staples or a computer store, it would have been a lot more expensive. I was fortunate to get this computer on sale in 2011. My friend and her husband have to pay quite a bit of money for their medications so it's not always easy for them to make ends meet.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: Arlene [mailto:nedster66@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 5:09 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

No it doesn’t. Also too, Yes blind people do wine over change.But, We all need to take into consideration their walk of life. If they can’t afford new equipment for many reasons. Yes they should update if something like xp is no longer usable on the web. Also, most blind people do need to quit wining! It makes it look bad for those who want to change but can’t afford it! I will change if I have to. I’m saving money to get myself a new hard drive so I can update to ten if I have to. I will learn ten if I have to. Don’t worry I’m not wining! Loll!



From: David Moore [mailto:jesusloves1966@...]
Sent: April-19-16 3:51 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



Hi Jene,

That is exactly what I do. It sure does not hurt to have two screen readers at your finger tips either.

You can have JAWS as a 40 minute demo mode just in case, and JAWS users can get NVDA for free. You should not be attacked if you use two screen readers LOL! That type of memorizing will not get you around on many sites you have never been on. Take care all.





From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 6:07 AM

To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



I'm not sure what you have in mind by someone telling you. I'll discuss the Internet in the rest of this message.



There are certain structures that you have to use the virtual mouse of your screen-reader to activate and those represent a lack of accessibility. but those who design sites often know little, if anything, about accessibility. And even if a site is accessible, if a bnlind person doesn't know how to find things on sites efficiently, they may waste a lot of time doing unnecessary things. For example, they may tab through item after item on a site when using the find command might allow them to find something very quickly. Continuing with the Internet as an example, to use the Internet to anywhere near it's potential in terms of efficiency, you have to know how to work with sites you haven't worked with before. A good deal of my Internet use is doing google searches and looking up information on sites I've never used or seldom used. Some people micromemorize sites, for example, memorizing that this or that is the second heading level 4 on a site. You simply can't use the Inter
net well in terms of working with large numbers of sites if you rely on such micromemorization. If people want to micromemorize this or that item on a site they use constantly, I'm not telling them that they shouldn't. but when I see people engage in such micromemorization, it raises the question for me if they know how to work with sites efficiently in general.



When I'm on a site I use often and I want to find the editorial link, I use the find command and search for the link. If it were a heading and I could get there efficiently by moving by heading, I might do that. but it isn't. the find command is the only way I know to find the link efficiently on the site.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Katty Geltmeyer <mailto:kattygeltmeyer@...>

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 4:15 AM

To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



Gene, you are right, I understand your point. But it would be helpful if someone tells you what are the changes, so that you can explore a website or programme more efficiently. I don't have an overview of pages etc. so, I go exploring. But this takes some time. And if buttons change behaviour, I mean if you could activate them by using space bar or enter in the past and now they need some other way to be activated, that's a bit a hassle if no one could assist you.



Best, Katty



Van: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2016 10:41
Aan: nvda@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



That is true in some cases but in many, that is a real exaggeration and reflects users not understanding how to learn the structure of a program or not understanding a new structure such as ribbons.



Lots of times, if a web site changes, what is desired can easily be found on the site by using the find command. For example, from time to time, Send Space has changed the way you begin a file download. There might have been a link that says download, for example. That link was changed to a button but if someone is used to using the links list, an artificial structure that separates them from the page and doesn't know how to explore the page itself, they may well have considerable difficulty and may need help to find out how to download again. This does not need to be a crisis. All that need be done is to go to the top of the page and use your screen-reader's find command to search the page for the word download. You will immediately see that download is now a button and you can then simply type the letter b when a Send Space download page opens to move to it.

If a program changes its structure, such as by adopting ribbons, if you know how to look through ribbons, you can look through them and, if desired, make notes of the key combinations to perform certain functions. This is similar to what you might do in a menu program. Far too many blind people are taught to do things by rote and so any change may be a crisis. In many cases, if taught properly, it can be just an inconvenience.



I'm not saying there aren't real problems such as when a program becomes inaccessible or much less so with a new release. But I am saying that many problems could be reduced to inconveniences if blind people were taught to conceptualize what they are doing and not to take certain actions by rote without real understanding of how something is structured and how to learn programs by trying different ways of learning about it such as looking through menus or ribbons.



Some blind people will find such ways of conceptualizing and learning difficult and some will find them easy and some in between. But many people are never taught such things so easy, difficult or in between for them, they never get to find out.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Katty Geltmeyer <mailto:kattygeltmeyer@...>

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 2:47 AM

To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



For seeing persons, compare the situation of the blind with the following: you are used to go to your local supermarket, and nearly to find everything you need on the shelves by almost walking asleep (you know what to find where). At a certain day, everything is changed: the name of the store, the products inside, the position of the products on the shelves, the shelves themselves, the several departments (bakery, vegetables, …) everything you can think of is changed. Unfortunately you are forced to wander through the store without having an overview of the store, no scanning of the shelves with the eyes, … After a mornth, you are used to the new store and products and their place in the store, everything changes again and you can start all over again. Isn't this a nightmare? Well, that's what the blind are forced to do every time a website, a programme, … changes.



In fact, I should post this to the accessible googlegroup.



Best, Katty



Van: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2016 4:14
Aan: nvda@groups.io
Onderwerp: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the sake of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs won't work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable will the new programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook express and when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was hesitent because I did not know what email program would work and be accessable. I did of course upgrade and used windows live mail and when I began to have issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now have windows 10 and I still use thunderbird. I think that the reason that we all like outlook express isthat it is just a simple email program with nobells and whistles like calendars or features that we don't need or can't use. Outlook express will always be the best email program but we have adapted to other programs but that does not mean that we are happy with them we just adjust. We all don't like change but we can and do adapt but we don't like it
. With new versions of windows there may be features that we don't need or want or we can't use but we use what we want to use or what we can use. I know that every one has their screen reader of choice and they think that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp it's no longer supported but I still have not been convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it. We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced upon us this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they don't have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice and so is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are willing to take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I got this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me how to find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start button, much frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating doing the upgrade to Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into before doing it.

Pauline

On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows. The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward. And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian










Re: topics straying out of NVDA territory

 

Hi,

This is the reason why we had subgroup proposals in the first place. But more importantly, I’m debating whether to declare an emergency or not after asking Nimer.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: Kwork [mailto:istherelife@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 9:59 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] topics straying out of NVDA territory

 

I'm noticing that we're straying away on many of these discussions from actually discussing NVDA. With groups.io, sub groups can be created. Moderators, just a suggestion: what about creating an NVDA chat subgroup for those who are members of this list, and who want to keep things off topic for the main list? I personally don't mind using my delete key, but would rather use it for topics I'm just not interested in rather than trying to figure out which topics of departed from actual NVDA discussion. Just a suggestion.

Travis