Date   

locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Yes, change can be scary at times. When I upgraded from XP to windows 7, I wondered if I'd ever be able to learn it. After buying the book and playing with windows 7, I found it easier to type a program I wanted into the search box.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss [mailto:@smeveriss]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 1:56 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

Hmmm interesting way to put it.
Lazy, how about frightened, I am certainly scared.
Not wanting, well I have several comercial programs, an advanced screen reader, and a few other apps which will cost some cash every system change, so I do actually want to keep going till I need to update those.
Now if someone offered me like a super deal out of the blue then yeah I am a sucker for packages so I would take it.
Another issue is the environment you are in.
My home environment has users in it who have not and are not wanting to change.
The same tasks I have been doing for the last while will continue to be the same and I see no reason to bother changing, ofcause its like I am in a stagnent pool.
Life is that pool, its not moved much since I left university.
There is only so many positions in that pool you can be in.
There are not that many.



On 19/04/2016 8:40 p.m., Christo Vorster wrote:
Hi Angela

I agree with you, but such are people universally. There will always be people who will make comments on what others say.

I think that deep down, most of us who are resistant to change are somewhat lazy to learn new things, but so be it. It doesn't mean that it make you a lazy person. Often the term "lazy" actually means "just not wanting".

The saying goes: "a change is as good as a holiday", so lets enjoy our changes, when we make them.

My opinion: if you want to change, do it. If you don't want to, do it. The choice always is yours. I just feel that those wanting to change just for the sake of change must take the consequences if they make a wrong choice and in the same way, we who don't want to change, leave us alone.

Sometimes you find people, especially concerning computer software, who look down on those not using the same programs as they do. My approach towards them is just to leave them be.

To be honest, I experienced it with many JAWS-users, and believe me, I used JAWS until I was forced to upgrade to Win 10, because that is what we teach at the college where I am employed. Please don't get me wrong, I don't regret changing to NVDA, I am very happy and believe that NVDA is a much better package, but the people I refer to, am of the opinion that I am stupid, and then many of them are using illegitimate copies.

Have a nice day

Christo

-----Original Message-----
From: Angela Delicata via Groups.io
[mailto:angeladelicata=libero.it@groups.io]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 10:20 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

Always the same old discussions you can find on a mailing list for blind.
I will say my opinion: I am not against change, I am just lazy to learn new stuff and do it only when it is really necessary.
I am not perfect, but only God is.
I think one can use whatever program he/she likes and everyone's choice must be respected.

I wish I would never read such things anymore, but blind are hard to change.

Ciao
Angela from Italy

Il 19/04/2016 ha scritto:


Van: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2016 4:14
Aan: nvda@groups.io
Onderwerp: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?



I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the
sake of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs
won't work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable
will the new programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook
express and when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was
hesitent because I did not know what email program would work and be
accessable. I did of course upgrade and used windows live mail and
when I began to have issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now
have windows 10 and I still use thunderbird. I think that the reason
that we all like outlook express isthat it is just a simple email
program with nobells and whistles like calendars or features that we
don't need or can't use. Outlook express will always be the best
email program but we have adapted to other programs but that does not
mean that we are happy with them we just adjust. We all don't like
change but we can and do adapt but we don't like it. With new
versions of windows there may be features that we don't need or want
or we can't use but we use what we want to use or what we can use. I
know that every one has their screen reader of choice and they think
that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp
it's no longer supported but I still have not been convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it.
We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced
upon us this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they
don't have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice
and so is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are
willing to take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I
got this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me how
to find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start
button, much frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating
doing the upgrade to Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what
I was getting into before doing it.

Pauline



On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted
on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it
was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than
Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what
you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the
annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows.
The number of things that require manual intervention from the user
in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward.
And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows
the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the
differences, but the differences are where people are required to
learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near
it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and
was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at
her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go
through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they
were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the
cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just
short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very
familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came
before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents
experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my
only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian










---
Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus








Re: voice question

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi,

I'm using the e-speak synthesizer and it's really great. Anna is the only
sapi 5 voice that comes with windows 7 but you can buy more voices.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: Jamie Prater [mailto:jdprater@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 1:56 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] voice question

Hi, is Anna the only voice you can use with nvda unless you purchase more? I
only have Microsoft voice Anna as my only voice option and would like
something a bit better. Thanks for any help and have a blessed day. PS: I'm
using the latest nvda with windows 7 and am very very much a beginner and
know very little about nvda. Thanks again and have a blessed day.


Re: voice question

David Moore
 

Hi,
NVDA is packaged with the e speak voice which has many different voices to it. There are many other free voices for NVDA as well. I will let others on this list who know a lot more let you know about them. You are not stuck with Anna at all, so I want to encourage you of that LOL!
 
 

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 4:55 PM
Subject: [nvda] voice question
 

Hi, is Anna the only voice you can use with nvda unless you purchase more? I only have Microsoft voice Anna as my only voice option and would like something a bit better.  Thanks for any help and have a blessed day. PS: I’m using the latest nvda with windows 7 and am very very much a beginner and know very little about nvda.  Thanks again and have a blessed day.


locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

Again someone that aggrees.
I am not against changes previded they actually make sence to the current situation.

On 19/04/2016 8:19 p.m., Angela Delicata via Groups.io wrote:
Always the same old discussions you can find on a mailing list for blind.
I will say my opinion: I am not against change, I am just lazy to learn
new stuff and do it only when it is really necessary.
I am not perfect, but only God is.
I think one can use whatever program he/she likes and everyone's choice
must be respected.

I wish I would never read such things anymore, but blind are hard to
change.

Ciao
Angela from Italy

Il 19/04/2016 ha scritto:


Van: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2016 4:14
Aan: nvda@groups.io
Onderwerp: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against
change?



I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the sake
of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs won't work
and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable will the new
programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook express and when I
was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was hesitent because I did not
know what email program would work and be accessable. I did of course
upgrade and used windows live mail and when I began to have issues with
it I went to thunderbird and I now have windows 10 and I still use
thunderbird. I think that the reason that we all like outlook express
isthat it is just a simple email program with nobells and whistles like
calendars or features that we don't need or can't use. Outlook express
will always be the best email program but we have adapted to other
programs but that does not mean that we are happy with them we just
adjust. We all don't like change but we can and do adapt but we don't
like it. With new versions of windows there may be features that we
don't need or want or we can't use but we use what we want to use or
what we can use. I know that every one has their screen reader of
choice and they think that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is
the issue of winamp it's no longer supported but I still have not been
convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it.
We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced
upon us this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they don't
have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice and so
is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are willing to
take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I got
this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me how to
find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start button, much
frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating doing the upgrade to
Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into
before doing it.

Pauline



On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on
staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was
simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than
Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what
you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the annoying
habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows. The number
of things that require manual intervention from the user in XP is huge
compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward. And, when
it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the
similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the
differences, but the differences are where people are required to learn
something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it,
really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in
her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her birth
and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go through I am
amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they were. While the
pace of change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the
majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just short of 54 years old)
feel to me much more like refinements on very familiar themes rather
than complete divergences from what came before. That was not true for
my grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more revolutionary
changes than I have, too. I think my only two revolutions were the
introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian










---
Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast
antivirus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



.


locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

AAh so you agree to brian thank you loads.
Thats also what I have been trying to get accross.
The new is not always better, it could get bettero or worse.
Its why I have given up on a lot of security suites because of them being unpredictable but one day I may find something that actually cares about all, and when that day comes I will be happy.
That day is far off though.

On 19/04/2016 8:06 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
My thoughts entirely, and its not the fact that the new way is better,
its often not or indeed worse for us as the debugging of access has not
been done properly, scripts inside screenreaders no long er work and
need to be rewritten etc. It is not rocket science and of cours would if
tackled at the start of development of a change pose no real costs to
the developer, so we sit back and wonder at the stupidity of the vendors
providers etc when we consider these things.
The answer is education of people that to use the current buzz word,
they have to be inclusive and consider all. Its like the buildings with
loads of wheelchair ramps but no staff who can help the blind find places.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Katty Geltmeyer"
<kattygeltmeyer@...>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?


For seeing persons, compare the situation of the blind with the
following: you are used to go to your local supermarket, and nearly to
find everything you need on the shelves by almost walking asleep (you
know what to find where). At a certain day, everything is changed: the
name of the store, the products inside, the position of the products on
the shelves, the shelves themselves, the several departments (bakery,
vegetables, …) everything you can think of is changed. Unfortunately you
are forced to wander through the store without having an overview of the
store, no scanning of the shelves with the eyes, … After a mornth, you
are used to the new store and products and their place in the store,
everything changes again and you can start all over again. Isn't this a
nightmare? Well, that's what the blind are forced to do every time a
website, a programme, … changes.



In fact, I should post this to the accessible googlegroup.



Best, Katty



Van: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2016 4:14
Aan: nvda@groups.io
Onderwerp: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against
change?



I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the sake
of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs won't work
and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable will the new
programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook express and when I
was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was hesitent because I did not
know what email program would work and be accessable. I did of course
upgrade and used windows live mail and when I began to have issues with
it I went to thunderbird and I now have windows 10 and I still use
thunderbird. I think that the reason that we all like outlook express
isthat it is just a simple email program with nobells and whistles like
calendars or features that we don't need or can't use. Outlook express
will always be the best email program but we have adapted to other
programs but that does not mean that we are happy with them we just
adjust. We all don't like change but we can and do adapt but we don't
like it. With new versions of windows there may be features that we
don't need or want or we can't use but we use what we want to use or
what we can use. I know that every one has their screen reader of
choice and they think that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is
the issue of winamp it's no longer supported but I still have not been
convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it.
We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced
upon us this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they don't
have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice and so
is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are willing to
take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I got
this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me how to
find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start button, much
frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating doing the upgrade to
Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into
before doing it.

Pauline



On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on
staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was
simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than
Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what
you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the annoying
habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows. The number
of things that require manual intervention from the user in XP is huge
compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward. And, when
it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the
similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the
differences, but the differences are where people are required to learn
something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it,
really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in
her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her birth
and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go through I am
amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they were. While the
pace of change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the
majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just short of 54 years old)
feel to me much more like refinements on very familiar themes rather
than complete divergences from what came before. That was not true for
my grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more revolutionary
changes than I have, too. I think my only two revolutions were the
introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian











locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

 

AAh so someone aggrees with me at last.
Situation is important.
I have no job or prospects of getting one long term at least for the moment.
I have static computer use, no business apps, brousing the net, twitter, email, some recording not much over a few games.
In fact useage has diminished after my vocational studdies.
Some in the family are retiring and they will have less to do on their units.
Others don't have the cash.
Its the point I have been trying to get accross over the last couple days.
Thanks for aggreeing with me on one thing.
This debate is interesting probably is getting close to cut off though.
Oh well may as well keep plugging at it I am enjoying it I must admit.

On 19/04/2016 9:53 p.m., Christo Vorster wrote:
Hi Peter

In my opinion, it depends on each person's personal situation. If I don't have the money to buy a new car, my 10, or as it was previously, 1989, vehicle has to do. Same applies to computer software. If you have the money to afford all the latest software, go for it. If I can't afford it, I must bear with it, and nobody need look down on me. Actually, there is a life, with other requirements, and most definitely, other responsibilities, outside the world of computer software.

For me. I'd rather go camping with my family and live with Win XP than buy the latest software and forfit the opportunity to have familytime.

Regards

Christo

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Beasley [mailto:pjbeasley23@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 10:58 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Does this mean then that noone should be driving aroud in cars that are 10 years old.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:03 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Hi, Brian,

You bring up some very good points here. I was talking to a friend the other day and he said he wishes he could go back to windows XP. I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with. He's a great example of someone who wants to stay in the stone age so to speak. I tried to suggest that he upgrades to windows 10 but he doesn't want to. Like the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:@britechguy]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:23 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to exist when official support ends. No one is guaranteed, nor should they expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with what vulnerabilities. Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will come, and go, in that arena as well. There is very likely going to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward. Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy. I've seen a lot of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian











.


voice question

Jamie Prater
 

Hi, is Anna the only voice you can use with nvda unless you purchase more? I only have Microsoft voice Anna as my only voice option and would like something a bit better.  Thanks for any help and have a blessed day. PS: I’m using the latest nvda with windows 7 and am very very much a beginner and know very little about nvda.  Thanks again and have a blessed day.


locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

Hmmm interesting way to put it.
Lazy, how about frightened, I am certainly scared.
Not wanting, well I have several comercial programs, an advanced screen reader, and a few other apps which will cost some cash every system change, so I do actually want to keep going till I need to update those.
Now if someone offered me like a super deal out of the blue then yeah I am a sucker for packages so I would take it.
Another issue is the environment you are in.
My home environment has users in it who have not and are not wanting to change.
The same tasks I have been doing for the last while will continue to be the same and I see no reason to bother changing, ofcause its like I am in a stagnent pool.
Life is that pool, its not moved much since I left university.
There is only so many positions in that pool you can be in.
There are not that many.

On 19/04/2016 8:40 p.m., Christo Vorster wrote:
Hi Angela

I agree with you, but such are people universally. There will always be people who will make comments on what others say.

I think that deep down, most of us who are resistant to change are somewhat lazy to learn new things, but so be it. It doesn't mean that it make you a lazy person. Often the term "lazy" actually means "just not wanting".

The saying goes: "a change is as good as a holiday", so lets enjoy our changes, when we make them.

My opinion: if you want to change, do it. If you don't want to, do it. The choice always is yours. I just feel that those wanting to change just for the sake of change must take the consequences if they make a wrong choice and in the same way, we who don't want to change, leave us alone.

Sometimes you find people, especially concerning computer software, who look down on those not using the same programs as they do. My approach towards them is just to leave them be.

To be honest, I experienced it with many JAWS-users, and believe me, I used JAWS until I was forced to upgrade to Win 10, because that is what we teach at the college where I am employed. Please don't get me wrong, I don't regret changing to NVDA, I am very happy and believe that NVDA is a much better package, but the people I refer to, am of the opinion that I am stupid, and then many of them are using illegitimate copies.

Have a nice day

Christo

-----Original Message-----
From: Angela Delicata via Groups.io [mailto:angeladelicata=libero.it@groups.io]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 10:20 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

Always the same old discussions you can find on a mailing list for blind.
I will say my opinion: I am not against change, I am just lazy to learn new stuff and do it only when it is really necessary.
I am not perfect, but only God is.
I think one can use whatever program he/she likes and everyone's choice must be respected.

I wish I would never read such things anymore, but blind are hard to change.

Ciao
Angela from Italy

Il 19/04/2016 ha scritto:


Van: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2016 4:14
Aan: nvda@groups.io
Onderwerp: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?



I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the sake
of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs won't
work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable will the
new programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook express and
when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was hesitent because I
did not know what email program would work and be accessable. I did
of course upgrade and used windows live mail and when I began to have
issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now have windows 10 and I
still use thunderbird. I think that the reason that we all like
outlook express isthat it is just a simple email program with nobells
and whistles like calendars or features that we don't need or can't
use. Outlook express will always be the best email program but we
have adapted to other programs but that does not mean that we are
happy with them we just adjust. We all don't like change but we can
and do adapt but we don't like it. With new versions of windows there
may be features that we don't need or want or we can't use but we use
what we want to use or what we can use. I know that every one has
their screen reader of choice and they think that theirs is the best I
use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp it's no longer supported but
I still have not been convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it.
We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced
upon us this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they
don't have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice
and so is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are
willing to take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I got
this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me how to
find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start button,
much frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating doing the
upgrade to Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was
getting into before doing it.

Pauline



On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted
on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was
simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than
Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what
you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the
annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows.
The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in
XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward.
And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows
the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the
differences, but the differences are where people are required to
learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it,
really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in
her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her
birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go
through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they
were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the
cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just
short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very
familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came
before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents
experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my
only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian










---
Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus







locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

What about interest.
Well I am interested in new changes but the familiar is a nice trap but still a trap.
I'd need to have to change no way back.
When my phone died 3 years back, I was like, ok time to make the transition to a touch device.
Time to jump into the 21st century.
Then as I prepair to leap, someone says, here want my old phone.
Me, sure.
They its old but it should work me.
Ok,.
I spend 250 dollars to get talks and I am back in the trap.
With my system its the same, I may have to end up buying older hardware but as I actually don't need to move foreward hardware wise for a while this does not bother me that much as it would have a couple years back.
Where I am in the world will not change till I get a big break, and maybe then I may change things on a large scale.
Now that doesn't mean I am not changing, just not the huge ones.



On 19/04/2016 7:57 p.m., Christo Vorster wrote:
So true. Shall we call it “lack of insight?” LOL



From: Isaac [mailto:bigikemusic@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 9:11 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



there against change because they can't see it coming!

----- Original Message -----

From: Christo Vorster <mailto:christo.vorster@...>

To: nvda@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 1:58 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



Hi



I use OutLook, Win 10 and office 2010, on my work computer. To me OutLook is perfect, but that is the program I learnt everything concerning email on.



I always say that making choices regarding computer programs is much like buying a car. The only question is “what do you prefer, like, or what works for you”.



Cheers



From: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 4:14 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the sake of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs won't work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable will the new programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook express and when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was hesitent because I did not know what email program would work and be accessable. I did of course upgrade and used windows live mail and when I began to have issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now have windows 10 and I still use thunderbird. I think that the reason that we all like outlook express isthat it is just a simple email program with nobells and whistles like calendars or features that we don't need or can't use. Outlook express will always be the best email program but we have adapted to other programs but that does not mean that we are happy with them we just adjust. We all don't like change but we can and do adapt but we don't like it
. With new versions of windows there may be features that we don't need or want or we can't use but we use what we want to use or what we can use. I know that every one has their screen reader of choice and they think that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp it's no longer supported but I still have not been convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it. We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced upon us this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they don't have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice and so is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are willing to take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I got this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me how to find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start button, much frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating doing the upgrade to Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into before doing it.

Pauline

On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows. The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward. And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian








locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

why change and try to learn ribbons if it makes my life harder in general.

Its fine if I need to but if I don't then what?



On 19/04/2016 8:40 p.m., Gene wrote:
That is true in some cases but in many, that is a real exaggeration and reflects users not understanding how to learn the structure of a program or not understanding a new structure such as ribbons.

Lots of times, if a web site changes, what is desired can easily be found on the site by using the find command. For example, from time to time, Send Space has changed the way you begin a file download. There might have been a link that says download, for example. That link was changed to a button but if someone is used to using the links list, an artificial structure that separates them from the page and doesn't know how to explore the page itself, they may well have considerable difficulty and may need help to find out how to download again. This does not need to be a crisis. All that need be done is to go to the top of the page and use your screen-reader's find command to search the page for the word download. You will immediately see that download is now a button and you can then simply type the letter b when a Send Space download page opens to move to it.
If a program changes its structure, such as by adopting ribbons, if you know how to look through ribbons, you can look through them and, if desired, make notes of the key combinations to perform certain functions. This is similar to what you might do in a menu program. Far too many blind people are taught to do things by rote and so any change may be a crisis. In many cases, if taught properly, it can be just an inconvenience.

I'm not saying there aren't real problems such as when a program becomes inaccessible or much less so with a new release. But I am saying that many problems could be reduced to inconveniences if blind people were taught to conceptualize what they are doing and not to take certain actions by rote without real understanding of how something is structured and how to learn programs by trying different ways of learning about it such as looking through menus or ribbons.

Some blind people will find such ways of conceptualizing and learning difficult and some will find them easy and some in between. But many people are never taught such things so easy, difficult or in between for them, they never get to find out.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Katty Geltmeyer
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 2:47 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?


For seeing persons, compare the situation of the blind with the following: you are used to go to your local supermarket, and nearly to find everything you need on the shelves by almost walking asleep (you know what to find where). At a certain day, everything is changed: the name of the store, the products inside, the position of the products on the shelves, the shelves themselves, the several departments (bakery, vegetables, …) everything you can think of is changed. Unfortunately you are forced to wander through the store without having an overview of the store, no scanning of the shelves with the eyes, … After a mornth, you are used to the new store and products and their place in the store, everything changes again and you can start all over again. Isn't this a nightmare? Well, that's what the blind are forced to do every time a website, a programme, … changes.



In fact, I should post this to the accessible googlegroup.



Best, Katty



Van: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2016 4:14
Aan: nvda@groups.io
Onderwerp: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the sake of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs won't work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable will the new programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook express and when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was hesitent because I did not know what email program would work and be accessable. I did of course upgrade and used windows live mail and when I began to have issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now have windows 10 and I still use thunderbird. I think that the reason that we all like outlook express isthat it is just a simple email program with nobells and whistles like calendars or features that we don't need or can't use. Outlook express will always be the best email program but we have adapted to other programs but that does not mean that we are happy with them we just adjust. We all don't like change but we can and do adapt but we don't like it
. With new versions of windows there may be features that we don't need or want or we can't use but we use what we want to use or what we can use. I know that every one has their screen reader of choice and they think that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp it's no longer supported but I still have not been convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it. We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced upon us this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they don't have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice and so is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are willing to take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I got this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me how to find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start button, much frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating doing the upgrade to Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into before doing it.

Pauline



On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows. The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward. And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian







locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

I agree, if there was some sort of interface program for windows where you updated the core but chose what interface you used for everything from start menu to explorer to menus, to desktop even if that meant advanced interface features would not be available including ms accounts, apps, etc then I would have no issue changing.
I want the system to be as simple as possible for my daily tasks.
And while the newer the system the moresimple it is for normals for us and disabled in general its reversed.



On 19/04/2016 9:15 p.m., Katty Geltmeyer wrote:
Gene, you are right, I understand your point. But it would be helpful if someone tells you what are the changes, so that you can explore a website or programme more efficiently. I don't have an overview of pages etc. so, I go exploring. But this takes some time. And if buttons change behaviour, I mean if you could activate them by using space bar or enter in the past and now they need some other way to be activated, that's a bit a hassle if no one could assist you.



Best, Katty



Van: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2016 10:41
Aan: nvda@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



That is true in some cases but in many, that is a real exaggeration and reflects users not understanding how to learn the structure of a program or not understanding a new structure such as ribbons.



Lots of times, if a web site changes, what is desired can easily be found on the site by using the find command. For example, from time to time, Send Space has changed the way you begin a file download. There might have been a link that says download, for example. That link was changed to a button but if someone is used to using the links list, an artificial structure that separates them from the page and doesn't know how to explore the page itself, they may well have considerable difficulty and may need help to find out how to download again. This does not need to be a crisis. All that need be done is to go to the top of the page and use your screen-reader's find command to search the page for the word download. You will immediately see that download is now a button and you can then simply type the letter b when a Send Space download page opens to move to it.

If a program changes its structure, such as by adopting ribbons, if you know how to look through ribbons, you can look through them and, if desired, make notes of the key combinations to perform certain functions. This is similar to what you might do in a menu program. Far too many blind people are taught to do things by rote and so any change may be a crisis. In many cases, if taught properly, it can be just an inconvenience.



I'm not saying there aren't real problems such as when a program becomes inaccessible or much less so with a new release. But I am saying that many problems could be reduced to inconveniences if blind people were taught to conceptualize what they are doing and not to take certain actions by rote without real understanding of how something is structured and how to learn programs by trying different ways of learning about it such as looking through menus or ribbons.



Some blind people will find such ways of conceptualizing and learning difficult and some will find them easy and some in between. But many people are never taught such things so easy, difficult or in between for them, they never get to find out.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Katty Geltmeyer <mailto:kattygeltmeyer@...>

Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 2:47 AM

To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



For seeing persons, compare the situation of the blind with the following: you are used to go to your local supermarket, and nearly to find everything you need on the shelves by almost walking asleep (you know what to find where). At a certain day, everything is changed: the name of the store, the products inside, the position of the products on the shelves, the shelves themselves, the several departments (bakery, vegetables, …) everything you can think of is changed. Unfortunately you are forced to wander through the store without having an overview of the store, no scanning of the shelves with the eyes, … After a mornth, you are used to the new store and products and their place in the store, everything changes again and you can start all over again. Isn't this a nightmare? Well, that's what the blind are forced to do every time a website, a programme, … changes.



In fact, I should post this to the accessible googlegroup.



Best, Katty



Van: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2016 4:14
Aan: nvda@groups.io
Onderwerp: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the sake of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs won't work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable will the new programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook express and when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was hesitent because I did not know what email program would work and be accessable. I did of course upgrade and used windows live mail and when I began to have issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now have windows 10 and I still use thunderbird. I think that the reason that we all like outlook express isthat it is just a simple email program with nobells and whistles like calendars or features that we don't need or can't use. Outlook express will always be the best email program but we have adapted to other programs but that does not mean that we are happy with them we just adjust. We all don't like change but we can and do adapt but we don't like it
. With new versions of windows there may be features that we don't need or want or we can't use but we use what we want to use or what we can use. I know that every one has their screen reader of choice and they think that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp it's no longer supported but I still have not been convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it. We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced upon us this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they don't have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice and so is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are willing to take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I got this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me how to find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start button, much frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating doing the upgrade to Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into before doing it.

Pauline

On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows. The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward. And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian








locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

Well catty its not really a problem for a single program but if its a large one like an opperating system where you have to potentially change everything and learn new skills and spend to upgrade things to work and have to deal with all the bad things you fixed last time you wander if its worth it.
Now in school and uni I had funding and could go up and up.
Now I don't, now while I can change once or twice every so often unless a drive breaks, it does mean its my cash, and the blind are not made of cash generally.



On 19/04/2016 7:47 p.m., Katty Geltmeyer wrote:
For seeing persons, compare the situation of the blind with the following: you are used to go to your local supermarket, and nearly to find everything you need on the shelves by almost walking asleep (you know what to find where). At a certain day, everything is changed: the name of the store, the products inside, the position of the products on the shelves, the shelves themselves, the several departments (bakery, vegetables, …) everything you can think of is changed. Unfortunately you are forced to wander through the store without having an overview of the store, no scanning of the shelves with the eyes, … After a mornth, you are used to the new store and products and their place in the store, everything changes again and you can start all over again. Isn't this a nightmare? Well, that's what the blind are forced to do every time a website, a programme, … changes.



In fact, I should post this to the accessible googlegroup.



Best, Katty



Van: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2016 4:14
Aan: nvda@groups.io
Onderwerp: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?



I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the sake of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs won't work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable will the new programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook express and when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was hesitent because I did not know what email program would work and be accessable. I did of course upgrade and used windows live mail and when I began to have issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now have windows 10 and I still use thunderbird. I think that the reason that we all like outlook express isthat it is just a simple email program with nobells and whistles like calendars or features that we don't need or can't use. Outlook express will always be the best email program but we have adapted to other programs but that does not mean that we are happy with them we just adjust. We all don't like change but we can and do adapt but we don't like it
. With new versions of windows there may be features that we don't need or want or we can't use but we use what we want to use or what we can use. I know that every one has their screen reader of choice and they think that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp it's no longer supported but I still have not been convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it. We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced upon us this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they don't have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice and so is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are willing to take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I got this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me how to find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start button, much frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating doing the upgrade to Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into before doing it.

Pauline



On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows. The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward. And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian








locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

 

Hmmm but with pete I am interested in react os working for us.
If I could run all my windows apps on a desktop, but not have to worry about actual windows including net programs, games, etc then it may be my ticket away from windows without going to linux immediately.

On 20/04/2016 6:41 a.m., Lino Morales wrote:
Totally agree with you Dave. Pete is like our buddy Josh on here. Dude
wants Keynote to work with NVDA. Seriously! That's old school and ain't
gonna happen. We've gotten so much better with speech synths int he past
20 puls years.


On 4/18/2016 3:27 PM, David Moore wrote:
Hi Pete,
Thank you so much, because I have made the same argument on many
lists. Try using a horse and buggy on a free way. There comes a time
when you just have to learn something new and change with the times.
People who live over 100, say this is the main thing you have to do to
live that long. Sometimes you have to forget the past and move on
toward the future. Someday, I will be able to drive my own car, and I
will embrace it. NVDA works so well in win10, and win10 is like a
mantion over a log cabbin. We should have choice, but like you said,
it can’t get in the way of the world changing for the good. Take care.
If it takes buying new programs, it must be done because of the coming
future. Start saving now, so you can prepare for the beautiful tech
future that is to come. Have a great one.
*From:* Pete <mailto:emac00@...>
*Sent:* Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 PM
*To:* nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question
Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Same thing for people wanting windows x p.
I am getting ready to install w10, have to check on if w e 9 works
in w10 or not. the f s people told me j16 works in w10 and sounds like
people are using w 10 with nvda.
Change is good but one should not be forced to loose freedom of choice.
On 4/18/2016 2:22 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people
wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use
Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing
like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life
that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively
cease to exist when official support ends. No one is guaranteed, nor
should they expect, that anything that they're using will be
available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only
existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code
base and with what vulnerabilities. Since e-mail clients constantly
interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things
will come, and go, in that arena as well. There is very likely going
to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something
you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward.
Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the
cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy. I've seen a lot
of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to
hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new
that's available to them.

Brian


locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

 

Gees you guys again with espeak.
Espeak is a robit bit of crap.
However its quite clear, no low quality voices.
Its good for a high performance small form facter synth.
I have grown to like it over even my higher quality synths.
Its an internal library.
I do think nvda needs to come with more opensource synths to it though.
I'd like the speechplayer to continue development and thats maybe where we should put our efforts.
Gwmicro has its own dectalk, freedom scientiffic has eloquence.
supernova has orpheus.
We have espeak which is what linux uses.
We are opensource, so espeak is a standard.
So are things like flite which is total junk, and festival//festvox which I am not sure about and piko.
For those complaining about an opensource synth try writing one.
Espeak for what it is actually is not that bad once you get used to it.
True its robotic, but its clear, high enough quality especially for small speakers and headsets, can run on almost anything from a single cored 128mb ram unit to the latest unit on the market.
Its an internal dll, its stable and hardly if ever crashes.
The only thing of concern is that development has stopped for it maybe I am not sure, point is just about every opensource program from linux to some free things use it.
Its not a reading synth but its good for general every day tasks.
You can'
't have everything.
Or do you want something that is not robotic, that sounds bad quality and not clear, that crashes constantly, maybe makes windows unstable that every few days you have to reformat.
Do you want something which to get the version that works you need to pay for it.
The only other synth that could be that fast is flite and thats totally bad.
Saying that if anyone has other things thats fine.
Espeak for me is a signature synth, but maybe we should focus on either the espeak extention for speech player or the speechplayer 1 development and work on making our own synth.
Ofcause we could just have no synth at all, and use sapi/speech platform which is probably doable especially where windows is going.
Be happy with what you have.
Espeak is a crappy robotic thing but its outwayed by its performance and stability and use on other things like linux.
I am sick of those that think we should change, its worked and its good for what it is.
As an network admin I actually like it, a fast startup is key to a good opperation I don't want to wait for a synth to start up especially with activations/errors.
Anyway no one says you need to stay on the base thing and this is what espeak is, the base synth.
It is what it is.
There was a servey done about speech, maybe to refresh those new ones on here there needs to be another one online and on the list.
Maybe that needs to be done.
I am concerned that there are those that will say this thing needs to be changed and don't realise how hard it is to make something like this.

On 20/04/2016 6:26 a.m., Lino Morales wrote:
Yeah we just need to convince James and Michael to do away with ESpeak
for good. I'm sorry, but now NVDA is 10 now its time to find aother open
source sulutions for a default synth. I've made this argument before and
I'm gonna hound for more change cause there people like my wife who
aslso blind and has progressive hearing loss that synths like ESpeak
won't do. Its not worth spending the money to buy Vocalizer for twoo
separate people.


On 4/18/2016 6:37 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Yes indeed. Whis was why I tried to choose my words very carefully on
the reply to the thread, but I think it went over the heads of many.

I always donate when a new stable version comes out, and if anyone
wants to say, the project needs x to do then I also donate according
to what I think I can afford.

The thing about Eloquence is, at least from my very limited experience
with other people this.
Most older users who migrated from Jaws, seem to like eloquence, most
new users of computers prefer something that sounds more human, or of
course they can now mix and match as they like. What you should not do
is install hacked versions of anything, as it does take away money
form somebody who is trying to make a living. If its too much then
just don't get it. we are spoiled for choice with voices these days,
and its up to the individual to decide if they need a non free one to
aid their comprehension.

Though I do still have an old version of Via Voice here on some
computers, I just don't like the eloquence type of sound, so I hardly
ever use it, and have not bought a copy. However, some of the other
voices like Daniel and Serena I have purchased over the years and find
them very got for reading documents, with the one proviso of them
using expanded US abbreviations like St for saint and NY for new York,
which are rather silly when encountered in normal text!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
<@joslee>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding
Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory


Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this
list. This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released
Eloquence add-on. Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list
owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions
for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at
this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please
don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product
that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the
product and the discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm
also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the
list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll
not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone
and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that
we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not
only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners
of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd
like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV
Access and this community. These days, what gives me more stress isn't
the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the
reputation and future of this community for months and years to come.
What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think
about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the
reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but
believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum,
is facing a crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason
at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" -
what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to
what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and
so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling).
Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think
about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other
words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside
world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free
lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free.
For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source
and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated
with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a
group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to
technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give
opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere. NVDA is more
than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their
wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@...]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against
the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to
call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@...> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as
fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said,
that is not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that
alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on
some food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you
do, you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may
purchase the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys
and I will let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I
am not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same
thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia
<ksapergia@...> wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for
NVDA, such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer.
I mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed
that Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen
readers and other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running
Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5
implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do
some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar
issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's
archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go
away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this
is indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best
way to limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia












locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

No one can see change coming, though sometimes when it comes its like you are crashing into a brick wall at 100 miles an hour.
Sometimes its good, often not.

On 20/04/2016 6:09 a.m., Ron Canazzi wrote:
hahehehahahehe!!


On 4/19/2016 3:10 AM, Isaac wrote:
there against change because they can't see it coming!
----- Original Message -----
From: Christo Vorster
To: nvda@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 1:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?


Hi


I use OutLook, Win 10 and office 2010, on my work computer. To me
OutLook is perfect, but that is the program I learnt everything
concerning email on.


I always say that making choices regarding computer programs is
much like buying a car. The only question is “what do you prefer,
like, or what works for you”.


Cheers


From: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 4:14 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so
against change?


I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the
sake of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs
won't work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable
will the new programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook
express and when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was
hesitent because I did not know what email program would work and be
accessable. I did of course upgrade and used windows live mail and
when I began to have issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now
have windows 10 and I still use thunderbird. I think that the reason
that we all like outlook express isthat it is just a simple email
program with nobells and whistles like calendars or features that we
don't need or can't use. Outlook express will always be the best
email program but we have adapted to other programs but that does not
mean that we are happy with them we just adjust. We all don't like
change but we can and do adapt but we don't like it. With new
versions of windows there may be features that we don't need or want
or we can't use but we use what we want to use or what we can use. I
know that every one has their screen reader of choice and they think
that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp
it's no longer supported but I still have not been convinced that
there is a better program so I will just keep using it. We should
upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced upon us
this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they don't have
cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice and so is
somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are willing to
take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when
I got this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me
how to find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start
button, much frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating doing
the upgrade to Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was
getting into before doing it.

Pauline



On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who
insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was
that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more
than Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's
what you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the
annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows.
The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in
XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7
forward. And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions
of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as
strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are
required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or
near it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s
and was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was
at her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go
through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they
were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the
cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just
short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very
familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came
before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents
experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my
only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer
and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian





locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

 

That I can agree on.
At least I would aggree on it in most cases.
However to change it also depends at what stage you are and what you do that requires a change.
Its for instance more than likely that until my current computer dies and maybe into the forseeable future that I will be using the same programs if not same versions of some of them at least to do my tasks which are not that much.
With no business prospects on the rise I have uninstalled my outdated office xp and use jarte pluss.
I have firefox and thunderbird, vlc, winamp, cd burner xp, audacity and goldwave as well as 7zip and some gaming apps.
This configuration has not changed for years and will probably continue to be that way.
Mixed with this I have a video suite which I use on and off, and abbyy ocr suite and a couple other things.
On my dad and brother's side they do use office so may or may not eventually have to change.
Allready my brother can not use 2013 office due to his video card and old specs.
On the other hand my dad's high performance new unit just brought will probably carry him to the end of his life.
As to changing system, for me, the change has to mean something.
Example.
dos to windows 95.
windows 95 to 98.
windows 98 to xp.
xp to 7.
Big changes.
78 well I don't know.
10.
At this point there needs to be a sepperation here.
I have not updated to the touch environment, the app environment etc I am still on the desktop environment and have no planns to upgrade.
But that will be the next step.
Neither do I use ms clouds but I use social networks and clouds of other previders.
So in short I'd need to see a reason to change that would mean my life or others would benifit.
Security is one thing but security is always a thing.
I'd have to not be able to source what I needed , and to be honest what I need doesn't have to be that new.
I do want to eventually et a quad system ssd and hdd hybrid unit like my uncle has, a 2gb videocard and a few other things but thats about all.
Its likely to be honest that what I will probably eventually do is just go back to xp and use linux or something to continue tasks so I can avoid fiddling with windows directly if it ever got that bad I guess.
Now if everyone moved then obviously I'd look to do that.
Ofcause if I could avoid updating things at expence all the time I moved, ie my comercial screenreader and other things that would happen a bit faster.
I have updated all hardware but want to put a futher 600 dollars into my internet setup before continuing on with things.
I do know an old system we got in 2011 is due for a upgrade but over that I am not sure.
My system itself has a few problems and is due for a reformat but since the issues are not where I need them or are things I need right now or in fact are anything I need to worry about and since they have not gotten worse it stays as it is.
With the event of talking dosbox I think my next jump will be to true 64 bit os though on the other hand, I use little to no apps which use all my resources on 32 bit I have anyway.
This situation is only because the waggon is not moving, and I don't have a place to go, I am sure if it was I would be the driver.
I have people family like my grandpa still on xp, in fact due to his age he has quit using a computer fully.
I have others that are well to poor to afford the latest system let alone the latest windows.
And yes while they have the latest win10 free upgrade now, if they update to another system its likely they will be using their xp/vista/7 disks they own because they can't afford the changes.
If I was like that with change I'd be upgrading to a new version of jaws pro just so it works with my new system and I have bragging rights.
I am absolutely sick of those that think change needs to happen, without a reason a change no matter what it is should really be thought through.
Again I am a old device user, and once I get a chain of dabblets I may think differently but at the moment my wheels are stuck in the mud and there is no shifting them.

On 20/04/2016 6:03 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Peter,

I'm not saying that people have to drive around in cars that are ten years old. All I'm saying is that eventually a person has to adjust to change even though it's hard. A friend of mine upgraded to windows 7 last year. She got her computer from a place in Texas called Computers for the Blind and it has windows 7 on it. I think she only paid over a hundred dollars for it. If she had to buy it from a computer store, it would have been more expensive and she wouldn't have been able to afford it. I do understand that not everybody can go out and buy the latest and the greatest at a store but there are ways to get a computer through a place like Computers for the Blind.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Beasley [mailto:pjbeasley23@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 1:58 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Does this mean then that noone should be driving aroud in cars that are 10 years old.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:03 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Hi, Brian,

You bring up some very good points here. I was talking to a friend the other day and he said he wishes he could go back to windows XP. I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with. He's a great example of someone who wants to stay in the stone age so to speak. I tried to suggest that he upgrades to windows 10 but he doesn't want to. Like the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:@britechguy]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:23 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to exist when official support ends. No one is guaranteed, nor should they expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with what vulnerabilities. Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will come, and go, in that arena as well. There is very likely going to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward. Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy. I've seen a lot of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian












.


locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Lino Morales
 

Totally agree with you Dave. Pete is like our buddy Josh on here. Dude wants Keynote to work with NVDA. Seriously! That's old school and ain't gonna happen. We've gotten so much better with speech synths int he past 20 puls years.


On 4/18/2016 3:27 PM, David Moore wrote:
Hi Pete,
Thank you so much, because I have made the same argument on many lists. Try using a horse and buggy on a free way. There comes a time when you just have to learn something new and change with the times. People who live over 100, say this is the main thing you have to do to live that long. Sometimes you have to forget the past and move on toward the future. Someday, I will be able to drive my own car, and I will embrace it. NVDA works so well in win10, and win10 is like a mantion over a log cabbin. We should have choice, but like you said, it can’t get in the way of the world changing for the good. Take care. If it takes buying new programs, it must be done because of the coming future. Start saving now, so you can prepare for the beautiful tech future that is to come. Have a great one.
 
 
From: Pete
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory
 

  Same thing for people wanting windows x p. 
  I am getting ready to install w10, have to check on if w e 9 works in w10 or not. the f s people told me j16 works in w10 and sounds like people are using w 10 with nvda. 
Change is good but one should not be forced to loose freedom of choice. 

On 4/18/2016 2:22 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to exist when official support ends.  No one is guaranteed, nor should they expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with what vulnerabilities.  Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will come, and go, in that arena as well.  There is very likely going to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward.  Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy.  I've seen a lot of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian




Re: TWBlue stopped working, please help?

Lino Morales
 

Well the only thing to do if you've not done so is remove everything including the TW Blue folder in app data then installing a fresh copy off the TW Blue site.

On 4/18/2016 7:52 AM, Lisa P Geibel wrote:
Hi We had this issue once and was able to fix it by deleting the extra characters, but that's not the problem this time. Everything looks right. It just won't load so unfortunately, as much as we loved TWBlue, if we want Twitter, we're going to be forced to use Chicken Nugget. We did purchase and install that, but have some questions if anyone would be willing to help here or off list as not to clutter things? Please and thanks.

Lisa
E-Mail: lisapgeibel429@...
Facebook: http://facebook.com/ldporter1
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LisaLisa429
Philmore box shared with hubby:
773-572-7897
God bless everyone!!!

On 4/18/16 5:20 AM, Lenron wrote:
I had this same issue sort of not sure what's going on. I refuse to
use any other twitter client I really like tw blue.

On 4/18/16, Rémy Ruiz <remyruiz@...> wrote:
Hi,
Go to the TWBlue shortcut that is on the desktop, and do properties;
with Alt+Enter
Example:
"C:\Program Files\twblue\TWBlue.exe" -i
I have deleted:
-i
now is:
"C:\Program Files\twblue\TWBlue.exe"
Apply and OK or only OK
Note:
Ignore the warning of Windows and click continue and ready!
Now if you can click the shortcut TWBlue.
Well this so what I did with an installable version.
Cheers.
Rémy
Le 18/04/2016 05:23, Lisa P Geibel a écrit :
Hi,
I know I've heard about people with this program and it not working. I
even went through the time when extra characters were added to the
twblue.exe file, but this is not the case now. We've uninstalled and
reinstalled the latest version, but still nothing. Restarted the
computer and still nothing. Tried hitting enter on the desktop icon
for the program, tried running it as administrator with the context
key, tried loading it from the twblue.exe icon in the program files
folder and still nothing. Does anyone have any ideas or should we
really say a final farewell to this great program? We're running
Windows 10 with the latest build of NVDA and also have the latest
version of JAWS, but it won't work that way either. Any ideas or help
would be greatly appreciated? Thanks.


locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Lino Morales
 

Yeah we just need to convince James and Michael to do away with ESpeak for good. I'm sorry, but now NVDA is 10 now its time to find aother open source sulutions for a default synth. I've made this argument before and I'm gonna hound for more change cause there people like my wife who aslso blind and has progressive hearing loss that synths like ESpeak won't do. Its not worth spending the money to buy Vocalizer for twoo separate people.

On 4/18/2016 6:37 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Yes indeed. Whis was why I tried to choose my words very carefully on the reply to the thread, but I think it went over the heads of many.

I always donate when a new stable version comes out, and if anyone wants to say, the project needs x to do then I also donate according to what I think I can afford.

The thing about Eloquence is, at least from my very limited experience with other people this.
Most older users who migrated from Jaws, seem to like eloquence, most new users of computers prefer something that sounds more human, or of course they can now mix and match as they like. What you should not do is install hacked versions of anything, as it does take away money form somebody who is trying to make a living. If its too much then just don't get it. we are spoiled for choice with voices these days, and its up to the individual to decide if they need a non free one to aid their comprehension.

Though I do still have an old version of Via Voice here on some computers, I just don't like the eloquence type of sound, so I hardly ever use it, and have not bought a copy. However, some of the other voices like Daniel and Serena I have purchased over the years and find them very got for reading documents, with the one proviso of them using expanded US abbreviations like St for saint and NY for new York, which are rather silly when encountered in normal text!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <@joslee>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory


Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list. This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on. Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community. These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere. NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@...]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@...> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that is not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do, you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@...> wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA, such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5 implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia









Re: TWBlue stopped working, please help?

Lino Morales
 

I just downloaded a fresh install of TW Blue when Manuel brought this up, butg the i is easy to take out if you updated automatically.

On 4/18/2016 5:20 AM, Lenron wrote:
I had this same issue sort of not sure what's going on. I refuse to
use any other twitter client I really like tw blue.

On 4/18/16, Rémy Ruiz <remyruiz@...> wrote:
Hi,
Go to the TWBlue shortcut that is on the desktop, and do properties;
with Alt+Enter
Example:
"C:\Program Files\twblue\TWBlue.exe" -i
I have deleted:
-i
now is:
"C:\Program Files\twblue\TWBlue.exe"
Apply and OK or only OK
Note:
Ignore the warning of Windows and click continue and ready!
Now if you can click the shortcut TWBlue.
Well this so what I did with an installable version.
Cheers.
Rémy
Le 18/04/2016 05:23, Lisa P Geibel a écrit :
Hi,
I know I've heard about people with this program and it not working. I
even went through the time when extra characters were added to the
twblue.exe file, but this is not the case now. We've uninstalled and
reinstalled the latest version, but still nothing. Restarted the
computer and still nothing. Tried hitting enter on the desktop icon
for the program, tried running it as administrator with the context
key, tried loading it from the twblue.exe icon in the program files
folder and still nothing. Does anyone have any ideas or should we
really say a final farewell to this great program? We're running
Windows 10 with the latest build of NVDA and also have the latest
version of JAWS, but it won't work that way either. Any ideas or help
would be greatly appreciated? Thanks.