Date   

Re: New Video: NVDA in Russia

Quentin Christensen
 

Thanks Carlos,

My apologies Tony, we found a small error on one of the visuals (I used quotes from Anatoliy's interview as visuals for the video) and I fixed it, but discovered I couldn't simply update the video, I had to make it a whole new video and delete the original.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 5:42 AM CARLOS-ESTEBAN <carlosestebanpianista@...> wrote:

Hi all.

Tony, this link work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITIWKgoI2Dw&feature=emb_title

Regards.

 

 

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.

Músico (pianista) y ayuda a usuarios ciegos y con discapacidad visual, con el uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.

Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.

 

Musician (pianist) and also help to the blind people with the use of screen readers and technology.

Certified expert in the screen reader NVDA.

Certified expert in NVDA

 

De: Tony Malykh
Enviado: sábado, 7 de noviembre de 2020 13:38
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] New Video: NVDA in Russia

 

The video doesn't seem to be available. When I clicked on the link, it says:

This video has been removed by the uploader

 

On 11/5/2020 2:07 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

I wanted to share a video we've just uploaded:

 

Prominent Russian #accessibility expert, Anatoliy Popko shares his experiences advocating for #A11y & the projects he is involved in, including putting IT trainers across Russia through NVDA Certification so they can teach blind users IT skills with NVDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o83mo-sSQNQ

 

At 17 minutes, it's longer than some of our other videos, but a fascinating story, and highlights some great work being done in Russia.

 

Quentin.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: NVDA OCR with adobe image file

Quentin Christensen
 

Try pressing NVDA+r when you first open the file and get the message about it being blank.


On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 11:09 AM Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

I have a scanned image in an Adobe .pdf file. I want to run NVDAs OCR over it. When I open the document in adobe Acrobat DC I get a message  that this is a blank document. I press F6 twice and press enter on the home button. Then I press NVDA+R and I hear recognising and below that result document but there is no text showing.

 

I know that this document is an image of scanned text because I can convert it using Abbyy Finereader.

 

All advice and instructions welcome!

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 




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--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

            If you have not already entered those rules hold off on doing so for two reasons:

1.  I have just learned that dictionary processing does not terminate after the first successful match, but continues down the list, using the substituted text for subsequent processing each time a match is found, until the end of the list is reached.  So I need to consider the order again to make this successful.

2.  It's likely I can remove the trailing colon requirement for all but Roman numeral one, unless it works better to assume it's there, then that needn't be changed

The big problem here is really the Roman numeral one, and having some very clear way of differentiating it from the pronoun I, and that is not at all easy sans some other delimiter used with it to make that differentiation clear.

I'm not going to work on this further until I see a response from you, as it's clear that this is going to be an iterative process until we nail down precisely what will work based on the text you're generally processing, which looks to be medical in nature.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 01:20 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
The major problem with this approach is its lack of flexibility.
                Agreed.  Using fixed word patterns is to be avoided when it can reasonably be avoided because you always end up not catching things you want to catch and vice versa.   And even with regular expressions, that can often be the case, though more rarely, until you've actually encountered exception conditions you had never anticipated when writing them.

Using a regular expression based method will likely be much more efficient. Even if you don't understand them, and don't want to take a couple hours to learn them (they only look confusing, they aren't really), you can ask someone to make one for you as was done here.
I'd have to say that I disagree with you about regular expressions not being confusing, and particularly to those who don't have a programming background where they've had to deal with "abstract, multiple-possible patterns within a larger pattern," way of thinking.   It took me a very long time to wrap my head around the more complex and nuanced aspects of regular expressions, and I've never dealt with recursive ones at all.  The level of abstraction you start having to think about to craft regular expressions that are both pieces of art and often nightmarishly dense, even to the initiated, is cultivated slowly over time.  And lots of the typical matches are not expressed in the documentation in the way that they'd be talked about in typical conversation.  I was once "the regex maker" where I'd sit and have the person describe to me all (or as many as they knew of) the examples of what they wanted to catch, and when, then translating it to a regex.  That is a non-trivial task once you get beyond the most basic matching.  But you already know this, as your skill with regular expressions is clearly fresher and better than mine is.

As you know from my private e-mail to you, while I can figure out how one can capture the Roman numerals one through four, or five through eight, with a single "compact" regular expression pattern match I have no idea how one would then have that match parsed out for replacement as individual letters.  If you want the individual letters, things get much more messy.

By the way, I absolutely love your solution for the generic case of a Roman Numeral that's 9 "Roman Digits" or fewer long, optionally followed by a letter, followed by the colon.

But as soon as Janet had noted that her needed range was the Roman numerals one through ten, I took the easy way out, and a way that I felt was "more understandable" to the person who was going to used it.

I only wish I could figure out a way to handle Roman numeral one reliably sans a delimiting colon.  I can find no way to do that which doesn't require linguistic analysis rather than pattern matching.  The pronoun I is just so common which makes it a nightmare.  You can pretty much count on a capital I followed by a verb being the pronoun, not a Roman numeral, but there is no way I know of to express that in a regex.

And I apologize to those who feel plowed under by these discussions of regular expressions.  But since they are such a powerful feature of NVDA's pattern matching for the various dictionaries they do fall under the category of NVDA related and there may be readers who do want to know more about how they're used.  If not, delete these messages or mute a topic once it deep dives into something like this discussion.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


locked Re: wanted nvda for my windows 7 home basic

Luke Davis
 

Standard NVDA will work fine for this. Get it at https://www.nvaccess.org/download

On Sun, 8 Nov 2020, sazid shaik wrote:

can anyone kindly share me nvda for my windows 7 home basic.  As I had formated my laptop hence it is little bit urgent please share as early as possible.


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Luke Davis
 

The major problem with this approach is its lack of flexibility. You literally have to individually code every possible RN you might encounter so that it pronounces correctly. Otherwise, the first time you get an IXII you weren't expecting, the whole thing becomes ineffective.

A secondary problem is that you will have issues any time you deal with a numbered list in Word or wherever, which includes lettered subpoints.
A. This
B. Is
C. a
D. Test

Would come out as:

A. This
B. Is
100. a
D. Test

I believe, which would be disconcerting.

Using a regular expression based method will likely be much more efficient. Even if you don't understand them, and don't want to take a couple hours to learn them (they only look confusing, they aren't really), you can ask someone to make one for you as was done here.

Luke

On Sun, 8 Nov 2020, Gene wrote:

with a period afgter, the dictionary read iv as 4. This may be of considerable value for those who don't know how to work with regular expressions and want to make Roman numeral pronunciation rules that work properly. The only thing I can think of that shouldn't be placed in the dictionary is a single I and 1 in the pronounced as field. You would constantly hear I spoken as in One went to the store.


locked Re: wanted nvda for my windows 7 home basic

Sean Randall
 

Hello Sazid

The latest NVDA, available from https://www.nvaccess.org/download/  still supports Windows 7.

 

 

From: sazid shaik
Sent: 08 November 2020 13:16 36
To: nvda
Subject: [nvda] wanted nvda for my windows 7 home basic

 

hello group members,

can anyone kindly share me nvda for my windows 7 home basic.  As I had formated my laptop hence it is little bit urgent please share as early as possible.

thanks and regards,
sazid
Recycle trees Save a tree...please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

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locked wanted nvda for my windows 7 home basic

sazid shaik
 

hello group members,

can anyone kindly share me nvda for my windows 7 home basic.  As I had formated my laptop hence it is little bit urgent please share as early as possible.

thanks and regards,
sazid


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

I said in an earlier message that the dictionary shouldn't work as I described. On further thought, it should. It doesn't know when moving by carachter by carachter if the letters are part of a word or not. If the dictionary didn't work this way, my method wouldn't work. The reason it does is that when the dictionary sees a Roman numeral, even if it is a single letter by itself on a line, or a single letter with a space on both or either sides, it thinks it is a word and that's why it pronounces it as a Roman numeral.

In short, the dictionary does what it is supposed to do, as far as I can see, and capitalizing the numerals and making them case sensative will, as I said mostly eliminate the problem.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 6:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

I just changed the entries as I described and they work properly.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 6:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

I just found out a way in which the speech dicgtionary acts improperly and
causes a problem. While what I said is true and I just tested it by making
a lot of entries and having them read in a novel that uses Roman numerals, I
found that when I type and have speak characters on, when I type something
like the letter v or x, the Roman numeral is read. This shouldn't happen
because I'm using the whole word setting. I'm going to change the entries
to case sensative and change all my entries to capital letters. That should
eliminate most such unwanted behavior.

I also just found out that when I move character by character through a
word, letters are announced as Roman numerals. For example, in the word
having, if I move by letter through the word, the v is spoken as 5.

Again, making such dictionary entries capitalized and making them case
sensative, should eliminate most such behavior, not all unfortunately. If I
type the name Vicgtoria or Xavier, the capitalized letter will be announced
as a Roman numeral.

However, what I've discussed may be useful to some people and if desired, a
portable copy of NVDA can be used with such dictionary entries for reading..

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 5:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

I think I figured it out. When using the whole word setting, if I don't
include a space before and afgter the numeral, it works. I made an entry iv
and in the pronounced as field I placed 4. I didn't make it case sensative
because I wanted to test what the dictionary would do in general.

When it saw iv in a word such as exclusive, it read the word properly. When
it saw iv just as letters, whether they were at the beginning of a line with
a space after, in a sentence with a space before and after, or at the end
with a period afgter, the dictionary read iv as 4. This may be of
considerable value for those who don't know how to work with regular
expressions and want to make Roman numeral pronunciation rules that work
properly. The only thing I can think of that shouldn't be placed in the
dictionary is a single I and 1 in the pronounced as field. You would
constantly hear I spoken as in One went to the store.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the
whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to
have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need
another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and
anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word
should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as
a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either
side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in
extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons,
as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field
and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV
when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try
a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps
what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the
ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be
valuable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the
speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit
what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to
catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

I just changed the entries as I described and they work properly.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 6:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

I just found out a way in which the speech dicgtionary acts improperly and
causes a problem. While what I said is true and I just tested it by making
a lot of entries and having them read in a novel that uses Roman numerals, I
found that when I type and have speak characters on, when I type something
like the letter v or x, the Roman numeral is read. This shouldn't happen
because I'm using the whole word setting. I'm going to change the entries
to case sensative and change all my entries to capital letters. That should
eliminate most such unwanted behavior.

I also just found out that when I move character by character through a
word, letters are announced as Roman numerals. For example, in the word
having, if I move by letter through the word, the v is spoken as 5.

Again, making such dictionary entries capitalized and making them case
sensative, should eliminate most such behavior, not all unfortunately. If I
type the name Vicgtoria or Xavier, the capitalized letter will be announced
as a Roman numeral.

However, what I've discussed may be useful to some people and if desired, a
portable copy of NVDA can be used with such dictionary entries for reading..

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 5:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

I think I figured it out. When using the whole word setting, if I don't
include a space before and afgter the numeral, it works. I made an entry iv
and in the pronounced as field I placed 4. I didn't make it case sensative
because I wanted to test what the dictionary would do in general.

When it saw iv in a word such as exclusive, it read the word properly. When
it saw iv just as letters, whether they were at the beginning of a line with
a space after, in a sentence with a space before and after, or at the end
with a period afgter, the dictionary read iv as 4. This may be of
considerable value for those who don't know how to work with regular
expressions and want to make Roman numeral pronunciation rules that work
properly. The only thing I can think of that shouldn't be placed in the
dictionary is a single I and 1 in the pronounced as field. You would
constantly hear I spoken as in One went to the store.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the
whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to
have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need
another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and
anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word
should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as
a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either
side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in
extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons,
as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field
and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV
when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try
a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps
what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the
ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be
valuable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the
speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit
what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to
catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

I just found out a way in which the speech dicgtionary acts improperly and causes a problem. While what I said is true and I just tested it by making a lot of entries and having them read in a novel that uses Roman numerals, I found that when I type and have speak characters on, when I type something like the letter v or x, the Roman numeral is read. This shouldn't happen because I'm using the whole word setting. I'm going to change the entries to case sensative and change all my entries to capital letters. That should eliminate most such unwanted behavior.

I also just found out that when I move character by character through a word, letters are announced as Roman numerals. For example, in the word having, if I move by letter through the word, the v is spoken as 5.

Again, making such dictionary entries capitalized and making them case sensative, should eliminate most such behavior, not all unfortunately. If I type the name Vicgtoria or Xavier, the capitalized letter will be announced as a Roman numeral.

However, what I've discussed may be useful to some people and if desired, a portable copy of NVDA can be used with such dictionary entries for reading..

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2020 5:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

I think I figured it out. When using the whole word setting, if I don't
include a space before and afgter the numeral, it works. I made an entry iv
and in the pronounced as field I placed 4. I didn't make it case sensative
because I wanted to test what the dictionary would do in general.

When it saw iv in a word such as exclusive, it read the word properly. When
it saw iv just as letters, whether they were at the beginning of a line with
a space after, in a sentence with a space before and after, or at the end
with a period afgter, the dictionary read iv as 4. This may be of
considerable value for those who don't know how to work with regular
expressions and want to make Roman numeral pronunciation rules that work
properly. The only thing I can think of that shouldn't be placed in the
dictionary is a single I and 1 in the pronounced as field. You would
constantly hear I spoken as in One went to the store.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the
whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to
have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need
another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and
anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word
should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as
a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either
side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in
extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons,
as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field
and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV
when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try
a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps
what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the
ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be
valuable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the
speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit
what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to
catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Sean Randall
 

the problom with this approach is that other letters than I would lose their meaning, such as x, v, c and so on.

whether NVDA should pronounce Iii as "3` or "I I I" is a matter for the synthesizer and user though, surely we shouldn't proscribe that level of detail for users in the general case.

On 8 Nov 2020, at 11:55, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

I think I figured it out. When using the whole word setting, if I don't include a space before and afgter the numeral, it works. I made an entry iv and in the pronounced as field I placed 4. I didn't make it case sensative because I wanted to test what the dictionary would do in general.

When it saw iv in a word such as exclusive, it read the word properly. When it saw iv just as letters, whether they were at the beginning of a line with a space after, in a sentence with a space before and after, or at the end with a period afgter, the dictionary read iv as 4. This may be of considerable value for those who don't know how to work with regular expressions and want to make Roman numeral pronunciation rules that work properly. The only thing I can think of that shouldn't be placed in the dictionary is a single I and 1 in the pronounced as field. You would constantly hear I spoken as in One went to the store.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the
whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to
have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need
another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and
anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word
should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as
a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either
side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in
extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons,
as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field
and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV
when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try
a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps
what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the
ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be
valuable.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the
speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit
what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to
catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn









[Recycle trees] Save a tree...please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

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This message and any attachments are private and confidential and may be subject to legal privilege and copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please do not publish or copy it to anyone else. If you have received this message in error please notify the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your email software and then remove it from your system.

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We comply with data protection legislation, including the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), and take the security and privacy of personal data very seriously. If you no longer wish to receive emails from us please forward this email (so we can see who it was sent to you by) to dpo@ncw.co.uk<mailto:dpo@ncw.co.uk> with your request, and we will review our information in line with your wishes.

Disclaimer
Although this email and attachments have been scanned for viruses, New College Worcester accepts no liability for any loss or damage arising from the receipt or use of this communication.


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

I think I figured it out. When using the whole word setting, if I don't include a space before and afgter the numeral, it works. I made an entry iv and in the pronounced as field I placed 4. I didn't make it case sensative because I wanted to test what the dictionary would do in general.

When it saw iv in a word such as exclusive, it read the word properly. When it saw iv just as letters, whether they were at the beginning of a line with a space after, in a sentence with a space before and after, or at the end with a period afgter, the dictionary read iv as 4. This may be of considerable value for those who don't know how to work with regular expressions and want to make Roman numeral pronunciation rules that work properly. The only thing I can think of that shouldn't be placed in the dictionary is a single I and 1 in the pronounced as field. You would constantly hear I spoken as in One went to the store.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the
whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to
have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need
another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and
anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word
should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as
a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either
side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in
extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons,
as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field
and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV
when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try
a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps
what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the
ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be
valuable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the
speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit
what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to
catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Luke Davis
 

An alternative to Brian's method, might be something longish like the following. Although again I don't fully understand the issue, not having gotten Janet's messages, so it might fail the use case after all.

I spent about an hour trying to figure out some more elegant way of doing this, and couldn't come up with anything shorter than the below. Brian's method is probably easier to understand, although this cuts and pastes as a single entry, so i guess it has that going for it. :)

The idea below is to match, at the start of any word, any RN between one and nine characters long, and additionally to match one optional subsequent non RN character, and a required final colon. That was what I understood from Brian's messages anyway.

Match type: regular expression
Case sensitive: yes
Pattern:

\b([MCLXVI])([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([MCLXVI])?([a-zA-Z])?(?=:)

Replacement:

\1 \2 \3 \4 \5 \6 \7 \8 \9 \10

I tested a version of this in a temporary dictionary, and it appeared to work.

The weird construct for the colon at the end, is because it's punctuation. I don't know when NVDA applies punctuation processing to this chain of dictionaries, and so I thought it better to make sure the colon was there, but let it actually be processed by normal rules with a forward reference. I did not test that part in the temp dictionary, as I only just thought of it. If this fails, try replacing "(?=:)" with just ":", and put a colon at the end of the replacement string as well.

Luke


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

My thinking it that there can be no whitespace after the colon, or an instance of a single whitespace character, but not multiple whitespace characters.  Definitely not the same as .* at all.

I agree that one could probably use \b, but I was thinking "whitespace" and used whitespace matching.  And remember whitespace is not just a space, but includes space, tab stop and line break.

Also, I sometimes change my mind about what I'm going to capture, and \b is non-capturing.

There's a reason I have said, repeatedly, that I am doing "quick and dirty" to get the result I'm looking for.  It's entirely possible, nay, probable, that certain of my regexes could be expressed more elegantly.  If it works on the tests I'm running, as I expect it to, it's "good enough."
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Luke Davis
 

Brian

I'm not receiving Janet's messages for some reason, so I'm not sure of every detail of her requirement for this, but I am left with a question.

What is the \s? at each end doing?
I mean obviously it is looking for zero or one space characters, but why?

If you can have zero space characters, that means you can have any character there, including a space character, since the space matching is un-anchored.
In fact, it is the same as \s*, for the same reason. (Or, possibly even the same as .*)

So I think the expression should work identically with or without the "\s?", although I could understand a "\b".

What am I missing?

Luke


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

          A second quick addendum, I just realized that what I've given so far may not work for cancer staging, as I presume that would be the word "stage" followed by the Roman numerals one through four, depending on which stage.

          We can create four more patters specific to the word stage preceding the Roman numerals one through four.  Luckily, you won't have to worry about reordering, as the prior matches all require a colon, and would all fail for the Roman numerals one through four that don't have a colon immediately following.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

           A quick addendum, I don't know how the letter A following a Roman numeral will end up being pronounced, as that's based on the synthesizer, so you may get ah or you may get A.  I just can't be sure.  I think letters B through Z are more likely to be read as the character itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

 

Janet,

Below is the list of 10 regular expressions, followed by what you use for the replacement, that you need to enter in your speech dictionary in the order listed.  I emphasize again: in the order listed.

This is important because I believe (and am waiting for confirmation) that the speech dictionary (or any dictionary) has its entries processed in order, and on the first match the replacement is passed to the synthesizer and the processing for that "word/character cluster" stops.  If you had the entry for Roman numeral one first, it would snag Roman numerals 4, 3, and 2 incorrectly since all of them are composed of a collection of capital Is.

In addition, I am going to presume from your example that all of these Roman numeral, with possible optional letter, sequences must have a colon after the last character of the sequence with no space between the two.  If there is no colon then the match will not work, and that's by design, as I do not want the pronoun I to be captured as Roman numeral one.

If you want the word "Roman" or something else in front of the individual characters of the numeral before they're read out one by one then stick that in front of the first character of the replacement string.  I just went for the individual letters making up the numeral, along with the letter following it, if that letter is present.

The regular expressions all start with a backslash and end with a question mark.  The replacement strings all end with backslash one (the digit 1).  When working with the dictionary to add entries, the regular expression goes in the Pattern edit box, the replacement string in the Replacement box, and the Type radio button must be set to regular expression.

\s?IIII([a-z])?:\s?    I I I I \1
 
\s?III([a-z])?:\s?    I I I \1
 
\s?II([a-z])?:\s?    I I \1
 
\s?I([a-z])?:\s?    I \1
 
\s?IV([a-z])?:\s?    I V \1
 
\s?VIII([a-z])?:\s?    V I I I \1
 
\s?VII([a-z])?:\s?    V I I \1
 
\s?VI([a-z])?:\s?    V I \1
 
\s?V([a-z])?:\s?    V \1
 
\s?IX([a-z])?:\s?    I X \1
 
\s?X([a-z])?:\s?    X \1


--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: How to spell out Roman numerals

Gene
 

It isn't clear to me after experimenting with the speech dictionary how the whole word setting works. I had originally thought that those who wanted to have something like Roman numerals spoken as standard numbers might need another choice in the speech dictionary. There is now whole word and anywhere as choices. As I thought about it, I thought that whole word should work and that no other option would be necessary. If IV were seen as a whole word and the dictionary spoke 4 when it saw IV with spaces on either side, if you include spaces in the entry, that that would not result in extraneoussspeaking of 4. So another choice in the list of radio buttons, as Ioriginally suggested, wouldn't be needed.

I experimented with this and iv by itself with spaces in the pattern field and 4 in the pronounced as field doesn't work. IV is still spoken as IV when written in this way. what does NVDA consider a whole word? When I try a word such as alive and use the whole word setting, that works. Perhaps what NVDA sees as a whole word needs to be changed.

Since most people won't know how to work with regular expressions, the ability to do this sort of thing using the whole word option might be valuable.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to spell out Roman numerals

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 04:53 PM, Gene wrote:
This could be made much easier,-
What could be?

Everything you write after this is essentially what I proposed: using the speech dictionary with regular expression matching to very strictly limit what is captured and substituted.

One of the beauties of regular expressions is how they can be crafted to catch only what you want.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn

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