Date   

Re: To all xp users who were running dropbox

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

I have just explained how I got it to work again in another post, but to be honest I'm not sure which step was the important one. My guess is the version of the new desktop client which now allows xp again when it did not a few days ago.
Oversight or deliberate I've come up empty on their web site and I'm certainly not going to tell them its working.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Igor Kaplan" <igorkaplan45@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox


Mike,

Mike,



So, I don’t really understand, why did you bother to write the message below, and it is not a first message for the same subject.

You did not give any details, you don’t give any links, how to make the machine working on windows xp, you keep saying, “it works”. Well, don’t you fill, everyone is very happy for you already, and every time when someone having problem with windows xp he or she will think about you and fill much better.



Do you think, it is a good time to volunteer little more information, how about some details? Beside giving an exact date since which you still under windows xp.

Give some thoughts.



Sincerely



Igor





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Capelle
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 9:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox



yes, it sure can be used, i have been using it this way since the 31 of aug.



From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>

Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 8:06 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox



I was able to log in using your procedure. It appears that I can use Drop Box though I haven't done any testing to be sure that it works properly after I log in. It treated my login as though Drop Box were on a new machine and took awhile to index the files I already had in the Drop Box folder on my machine. But after awhile, it changed its system tray message to up to date. So it appears that even though Drop box sent messages saying it can't be used with XP any longer, it may be able to be.



GGene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>

Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 7:06 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox



And what happens when you close the program and run it again or when you do the same thing by rebooting?



Perhaps there is a bugg in the Drop Box system that allows you to use the program in this way but it is not what is intended. I received two messages before the termination date telling me that the program can't be used and you can't log in using the program itself. If you can do so using the procedure you gave, that would be useful to know. But I doubt it is just a one time procedure. I suspect you have to do so every time you close and reopen the program or every time you do the equivalent by rebooting.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Capelle <mailto:mcapelle@charter.net>

Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 6:57 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox



u r not getting i t, when u launch db for the first time, it takes you to
the page in the browser, u log into it, db then starts normally and logs u
in.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox


Yes, it takes you to exactly the same web page you can go to if you go
directly to the site itself by opening your browser and going there
directly. You are logging into use Drop Box with your browser. You are not
using the Drop Box desktop program. All you are doing is using control g to
have the program run your default browser and open the login page. If you
look in the system tray, you will see that the program says starting and it
never progresses. You can't use the desktop program to access Send Space
other than to have it open the login page in your browser and that you can
do directly in your browser.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Capelle
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 6:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox


yes, u can, it will say press control plus g to log in, it takes you to a
web page to log in.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox


I'm not sure what you are describing. You have to log in using the Drop Box
desktop program as far as I know. You can't log in using a browser and then
use the desk top program without logging in with that program.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Capelle
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 6:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox


i ran the ninite file, and it installed db, than i ran mozilla firefox to
log in, and had no issues.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox


I don't know why it is working forMike. It doesn't work here with XP and I
haven't heard anything indicating that it works in general. Perhaps there
is something about Mike's machine that isn't standard.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Arlene
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 4:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox


I can't believe Drop box still works for xp. I'm glad it still does for
those who use it. My xp box died a long time ago! My very first xp box quit
serving me when I started using jaws 11. It couldn’t handle it. I had to
give it to a sighted user. Yes, with it I had drop box. I was going into
chat rooms that used tc conference. The second box I got from a friend. it
died shortly after I got my 7 box witch I still have. I'm happy with 7. If
I get or end up with ten so be it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael
Capelle
Sent: September-11-16 11:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox

oh my gosh dude, chill the f*** out, everyone is different.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox


Yeah but the majority of folks on heredon't use them POS machines? No.
I've got nothing else to say. Happy fanagaling guys.


On 9/11/2016 1:29 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
Lino, there's no need to take that sort of tone, especially when you're
wrong.

It is possible to adjust Windows XP so that it gets updates intended for
Point
of Sale (POS) terminals, and these continue until April 9th, 2019.

You may not wish to continue using Windows XP yourself, but please don't
be so
abusive (or misinformed) towards those who do, and who know what they're
doing
to keep it going.


Antony.

On Sunday 11 Sep 2016 at 18:05, Lino Morales wrote:

Say what? Where the hell did you hear this from MR.
Bryian.uk.co.missinformed? Supported officially ended for XP on APR.
2014. Its high time you all get off the XP trainwreck. Dropbox did
indeed end their support. Fanagle it to work to your little hearts
content.

On 9/11/2016 6:32 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Actually it will let you in with a very old version, but not if its
running on xp.
It obviously detects the operating system. They have sent out many
messages from well over a month ago warning people about this and it
did actually last an extra day. I see now they are claiming that its a
security issue with xp as its not been updated for over two years,
however many of us do have xp updates till 2019, and really should
not be all shoved together with the great unwashed as it seems xp
users are seen these days.

Brian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Arno Schuh"
<arno.schuh@in-trier.de>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox

Hi,

the update of Dropbox is pushed by one or more entries in scheduled
tasks. So it would be possible to stop the Dropbox client to update
itself. But as I wrote in my last mail - it didn't matter. Dropbox
didn't let you in with an old version of the client.

Yours sincerely

Arno



Re: Windows 10 Mail app still problematic

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

Does this email app donewsgroups as well?
Also in some Imap servers the folders are labelled differently so its hard to see how they could make it agree for everybody.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Crabtree" <pandbcrabtree@icloud.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 8:48 AM
Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 Mail app still problematic


I have tried out the Windows 10 add-on 16.09.1A with NVDA 2016-3 and the latest version of Windows 10 and still find the following problems:

- as I start the app, it speaks the initial focus, but then reacts to nothing until I use Alt plus Tab to go out and back in. I tried Escape, F 6, Tab, arrows, etc

- as I read an email or read back the text of a reply that I am about to send, it says "edit" before every line, including the blank ones. This is for every line, not just at the start of a new paragraph.

- it does not speak as I type, whether in a new email or when replying or forwarding. It will read what I have typed when I use nvda plus A or arrow up and down and it will speak each letter if I arrow left and right to correct an error.

Could I ask Joseph or others if these things are in the plan for a later release of the add-on?

Finally, Microsoft has still not implemented my top requirement: to be able to change the names of the key folders (sent, drafts, trash) to match those used by the server. This means I get 2 versions of, for example, the sent items folder, which is totally useless. I will send a Feedback to them, but if anyone has heard that they do plan to make this improvement I should be grateful for a word to the wise. Brian Crabtree


Re: To all xp users who were running dropbox

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

OK I've just been doing some bodging erm, testing.
It seems that when dropbox desktop was thrown off near the end of last month and some days this motnth it was still updating the version of dropbox. I have now got all my xp machines logged back in to the deskto app and working with the same folders as before. I also note that when before one tried to log in one was directed to the page saying update your operating system, today you are not and can get to your account. Once this is done if you exit and restart the computer it logs back into the desktop. Either dropbox have relented, or perhaps the latest update has not disallowed xp as an oversight, but I'm not telling them if you don't. It might be that there was an outcry, but I am not rocking the boat.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Arlene" <nedster66@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox


Hmmm, perhaps whatever he does works. Like I said with my xp Compaq it crawled on IE just before I donated it to a sighted user. Firefox it was beautiful. It was still slow. It didn’t even have a dvd player. The person who used it only used it for schooling. If I had kept it. It would have died perhaps 2011. Or sooner. It couldn’t hold jaws 11. I had to go back to ten.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: September-11-16 4:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox



I don't know why it is working forMike. It doesn't work here with XP and I haven't heard anything indicating that it works in general. Perhaps there is something about Mike's machine that isn't standard.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Arlene <mailto:nedster66@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 4:07 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox



I can't believe Drop box still works for xp. I'm glad it still does for those who use it. My xp box died a long time ago! My very first xp box quit serving me when I started using jaws 11. It couldn’t handle it. I had to give it to a sighted user. Yes, with it I had drop box. I was going into chat rooms that used tc conference. The second box I got from a friend. it died shortly after I got my 7 box witch I still have. I'm happy with 7. If I get or end up with ten so be it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Capelle
Sent: September-11-16 11:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox

oh my gosh dude, chill the f*** out, everyone is different.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox


Yeah but the majority of folks on heredon't use them POS machines? No.
I've got nothing else to say. Happy fanagaling guys.


On 9/11/2016 1:29 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
Lino, there's no need to take that sort of tone, especially when you're
wrong.

It is possible to adjust Windows XP so that it gets updates intended for
Point
of Sale (POS) terminals, and these continue until April 9th, 2019.

You may not wish to continue using Windows XP yourself, but please don't
be so
abusive (or misinformed) towards those who do, and who know what they're
doing
to keep it going.


Antony.

On Sunday 11 Sep 2016 at 18:05, Lino Morales wrote:

Say what? Where the hell did you hear this from MR.
Bryian.uk.co.missinformed? Supported officially ended for XP on APR.
2014. Its high time you all get off the XP trainwreck. Dropbox did
indeed end their support. Fanagle it to work to your little hearts
content.

On 9/11/2016 6:32 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Actually it will let you in with a very old version, but not if its
running on xp.
It obviously detects the operating system. They have sent out many
messages from well over a month ago warning people about this and it
did actually last an extra day. I see now they are claiming that its a
security issue with xp as its not been updated for over two years,
however many of us do have xp updates till 2019, and really should
not be all shoved together with the great unwashed as it seems xp
users are seen these days.

Brian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Arno Schuh"
<arno.schuh@in-trier.de>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] To all xp users who were running dropbox

Hi,

the update of Dropbox is pushed by one or more entries in scheduled
tasks. So it would be possible to stop the Dropbox client to update
itself. But as I wrote in my last mail - it didn't matter. Dropbox
didn't let you in with an old version of the client.

Yours sincerely

Arno



Re: NVDA and LibreOffice

 

Hi,

Last time I tried talking to LO folks, it wasn’t successful (no replies to an email I sent regarding possible collaboration).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert Kingett
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 9:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and LibreOffice

 

I agree. I was curious if te NV access team was gonna work with the LO accessibility team but my guess is we have NVDA folk on the LO team already? I hope so! I use LO more than MSW myself.


Re: *** SPAM *** Navigation Pane

Gene
 

That's right.  Even though I use the command a lot, I didn't remember it correctly when I wrote the message.  It's NVDA key f3 for repeat search.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane

Hi Gene:
I always thought that it was NVDAkey-f3 withought the control to
repeat the search.  Actually, that seems to work for me.
Kevin Huber

On 9/11/16, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> did you use nvda control f3 to repeat the search?  That is the correct
> procedure.  NVDA key control f for the firrst search.  NVDA control f3 for
> repetitions.  It may not matter but at this point, we don't know if the
> problem is the command being used or the way NVDA search works in Word.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 9:31 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane
>
>
> Gene,
>
>
>
> Yes, you are right that NVDA's browse mode works in MS Word. It does bring
> the real cursor along with the virtual cursor. In fact, the windows wearch
> can also be used while in browse mode.
>
>
>
> The NVDA search, NVDA+control+f only finds one occurrence of the result and
> not multiple occurrences like the control+f does. Therefore, it seems to me
> that there is no point in using browse mode to bring up multiple occurrences
> of the result.
>
>
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Cearbhall
>
>
>
> m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional
> version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for
> free now!
>
>
>
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 3:03 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane
>
>
>
> You have to manually enter browse mode, NVDA key space.  As I said a few
> days ago, and no one addressed my question, does that move the actual
> application cursor along with the browse mode cursor or does it just move
> the browse mode cursor.  To get back to the application cursor, once again,
> use NVDA key space.  It's a toggle.  At least I should say, it's my
> understanding that in Word, this command toggles browse mode on and off and
> it must be manually done.
>
>
>
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra
>
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 8:46 AM
>
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>
> Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane
>
>
>
> Thanks, Daniel,
>
>
>
> I cannot get NVDA+F3 to work in Word. It works here in Outlook all right but
> not in Word.
>
>
>
> Do you know where I might find a tutorial?
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Cearbhall
>
>
>
> m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
>
>
>
>
>
> I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional
> version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for
> free now!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional
> version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for
> free now!
>
>
>
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of LANGERON
> Daniel
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 2:12 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane
>
>
>
> Hi both of you,
> Just a brief "touch and go" into your discussion:  What about using the
> classic NVDA Key + F3 in order to reach the next occurrence you are looking
> for ?
> Hope that could help.
> Daniel from Versailles France
>
> Le 11/09/2016 14:54, Cearbhall O'Meadhra a écrit :
>
>   Gene,
>
>
>
>   Yes, F6 and shift F6 moves between the various parts of the Word screen.
> Eventually F6 arrives at the search pane. This has three tabs headed
> "Search", "Headings" and "Pages". My problem occurs when the Search tool is
> in focus. Then I can type in a word that I want to find in the document. If
> this word occurs a few times in the document, I should get a list of results
> just below the search box. My problem is how to go through each of
>
>   these results to pick the one that I am looking for?
>
>
>
>   I am using Word 2010 in Windows 7 with NVDA 2016.3.
>
>
>
>   All the best,
>
>
>
>   Cearbhall
>
>
>
>   m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional
> version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for
> free now!
>
>
>
>
>
>   From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
>   Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 1:35 PM
>   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>   Subject: Re: [nvda] Navigation Pane
>
>
>
>   Have you tried using f6 to move forward and shift f6 to move backward
> among whatever panes may be opened?
>
>
>
>   Gene
>   ----- Original Message -----
>
>   From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra
>
>   Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 7:27 AM
>
>   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>
>   Subject: Re: [nvda] Navigation Pane
>
>
>
>   Hi,
>
>
>
>   I am really struggling to find a good description of how to use the
> Navigation Pane in Word 2010 with NVDA or, indeed,  any screen reader!
>
>
>
>   Could anyone point me to a good tutorial or even set out the steps that
> they use to move through the results of a word search after pressing
> control-f in Word 2010, please?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   All the best,
>
>
>
>   Cearbhall
>
>
>
>   m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Re: NVDA and LibreOffice

Robert Kingett <kingettspeaks@...>
 

I agree. I was curious if te NV access team was gonna work with the LO accessibility team but my guess is we have NVDA folk on the LO team already? I hope so! I use LO more than MSW myself.


Re: NVDA and spell checker (Word 2013)

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Hi,

We recently discussed this very issue so I am attaching Quentin’s very clear description of using spell checker in Word. Note that this does not work in Outlook which only speaks the correction field as you describe.

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

 

I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for free now!

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 12:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA not reading Spell Checker fields

 

When I press f7, the spell check pane ("Proofing toolbar") opens and the focus jumps to the "ignore" button.  To read the misspelled word I can press NVDA+num pad 4.

 

After the "Add" button, the focus moves to the first of the alternative words (if any).  The next two items are "Change" and "Change all" and press NVDA+num pad 6 past that change button, the review cursor moves to a text label with the currently chosen alternative word, followed by a button to have it spoken, then a dictionary explanation of the word.

 

Note if you are using laptop layout, replace:

 

NVDA+num pad 4 with NVDA+shift+left arrow

and

NVDA+num pad 6 with NVDA+shift+right arrow


I'm using Word 2016 (Office 365) and NVDA 2016.2.1

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of babcockldpvi@...
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 2:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and spell checker (Word 2013)

 

Hello, 

 

I am trying to create a tutorial for a student about using the spell checker but what seems odd is that NVDA reads the suggested correction but does not read the original text. I am using Windows 10 and NVDA 2016.3.

 

Thanks, 


Re: Gaining focus on the System Tray area of the Taskbar with NVDA

 

Thank you very, very much.  I have no idea why I was drawing a blank on both the keyboard shortcut and the fact that this is now called the Notification Area under Windows 10.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Re: Gaining focus on the System Tray area of the Taskbar with NVDA

 

Windows+B


Artin Dekker
Beheerder win10-nl
https://win10-nl.groups.io/g/algemeen
Op 12-9-2016 om 17:46 schreef Brian Vogel:

Hello All,

           I'm having one of those mornings where I simply cannot pull up the keyboard sequence that would cause focus to be thrown on to the system tray area where the notification chevron and all the icons you elect to keep permanently visible in the system tray are located.

           For all I know this may be a Windows 10 keyboard shortcut, but it's not documented in their online list and I can't find anything immediately useful in the printed version of NVDA commands from release 2015.4.   I can't imagine this would have changed since 2015.4, but perhaps it has.


--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    




Gaining focus on the System Tray area of the Taskbar with NVDA

 

Hello All,

           I'm having one of those mornings where I simply cannot pull up the keyboard sequence that would cause focus to be thrown on to the system tray area where the notification chevron and all the icons you elect to keep permanently visible in the system tray are located.

           For all I know this may be a Windows 10 keyboard shortcut, but it's not documented in their online list and I can't find anything immediately useful in the printed version of NVDA commands from release 2015.4.   I can't imagine this would have changed since 2015.4, but perhaps it has.


--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Re: We may see some really great Sounding TTS in the near feature

Damien Sykes-Lindley <damien@...>
 

Hi there,
I may have misunderstood the article, but it says that it is a computationally expensive task. To me, that sounds like it means that we’ll be facing a fair amount of the lag that we are currently facing with concatenative voices. While the voices themselves sound remarkable, I can’t help feeling that they are best heard reading text, than interacting with a screen reader for day-to-day computer use which includes input as well as output.
Synthesisers are a sticky, tricky topic, especially for me. I am very picky about what voices I will use (they have to have extremely low latency, be audibly and vocally clear, and customisable, which in my view none of the voices currently supported by NVDA fit all three criteria). This leaves me using SAPI and even that has its major drawbacks.
Kind regards,
Damien.
 

Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 12:47 PM
Subject: [nvda] Fwd: We may see some really great Sounding TTS in the near feature
 

yes this does apply to NVDA or i hope it will in the future very soon!

 



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: We may see some really great Sounding TTS in the near feature
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 22:01:48 -0700
From: Warren Carr mailto:warcarr@...
Reply-To: eyes-free@...
To: eyes-free@...


I was reading a blog post from WaveNet and I was blown away by some of the stuff that they are doing.

 

I can’t wait to have those voices on our devices!

 

Here’s is the extract, followed by the URL to the page, and be sure to head over to that page, and take a listen to some of those voices.

 

If you don’t want to read while you are on the page, you can simply hit letter B, to take you to the “play button.”

 

The first ones are demonstrating how the current Google TTS sound, and then the latter ones, demonstrate the more modern sounding ones.

 

There are a couple other languages in there besides U.S. English and Chinese.

 

Quote:

 

This post presents WaveNet

, a deep generative model of raw audio waveforms. We show that WaveNets are able to generate speech which mimics any human voice and which sounds more

natural than the best existing Text-to-Speech systems, reducing the gap with human performance by over 50%.

 

We also demonstrate that the same network can be used to synthesize other audio signals such as music, and present some striking samples of automatically

generated piano pieces.

 

Talking Machines

 

Allowing people to converse with machines is a long-standing dream of human-computer interaction. The ability of computers to understand natural speech

has been revolutionised in the last few years by the application of deep neural networks (e.g., Google Voice Search ). However, generating speech with computers

— a process usually referred to as

speech synthesis

or text-to-speech (TTS) — is still largely based on so-called concatenative TTS , where a very large database of short speech fragments are recorded from

a single speaker and then recombined to form complete utterances. This makes it difficult to modify the voice (for example switching to a different speaker,

or altering the emphasis or emotion of their speech) without recording a whole new database.

 

This has led to a great demand for parametric TTS

, where all the information required to generate the data is stored in the parameters of the model, and the contents and characteristics of the speech

can be controlled via the inputs to the model. So far, however, parametric TTS has tended to sound less natural than concatenative, at least for syllabic

languages such as English. Existing parametric models typically generate audio signals by passing their outputs through signal processing algorithms known

as

vocoders .

 

WaveNet changes this paradigm by directly modelling the raw waveform of the audio signal, one sample at a time. As well as yielding more natural-sounding

speech, using raw waveforms means that WaveNet can model any kind of audio, including music.

 

WaveNets

 

Wave animation

 

Researchers usually avoid modelling raw audio because it ticks so quickly: typically 16,000 samples per second or more, with important structure at many

time-scales. Building a completely autoregressive model, in which the prediction for every one of those samples is influenced by all previous ones (in

statistics-speak, each predictive distribution is conditioned on all previous observations), is clearly a challenging task.

 

However, our PixelRNN and PixelCNN

models, published earlier this year, showed that it was possible to generate complex natural images not only one pixel at a time, but one colour-channel

at a time, requiring thousands of predictions per image. This inspired us to adapt our two-dimensional PixelNets to a one-dimensional WaveNet.

 

Architecture animation

 

The above animation shows how a WaveNet is structured. It is a fully convolutional neural network, where the convolutional layers have various dilation

factors that allow its receptive field to grow exponentially with depth and cover thousands of timesteps.

 

At training time, the input sequences are real waveforms recorded from human speakers. After training, we can sample the network to generate synthetic

utterances. At each step during sampling a value is drawn from the probability distribution computed by the network. This value is then fed back into the

input and a new prediction for the next step is made. Building up samples one step at a time like this is computationally expensive, but we have found

it essential for generating complex, realistic-sounding audio.

 

Improving the State of the Art

 

We trained WaveNet using some of Google’s TTS datasets so we could evaluate its performance. The following figure shows the quality of WaveNets on a scale

from 1 to 5, compared with Google’s current best TTS systems (

parametric and concatenative

), and with human speech using

Mean Opinion Scores (MOS)

. MOS are a standard measure for subjective sound quality tests, and were obtained in blind tests with human subjects (from over 500 ratings on 100 test

sentences). As we can see, WaveNets reduce the gap between the state of the art and human-level performance by over 50% for both US English and Mandarin

Chinese.

 

For both Chinese and English, Google’s current TTS systems are considered among the best worldwide, so improving on both with a single model is a major

achievement.

 

Here are some samples from all three systems so you can listen and compare yourself:

End of quote from:

 

https://deepmind.com/blog/wavenet-generative-model-raw-audio/

 

What do you think?

 

Warren

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Windows 10 App Essentials September 12th snapshot, please test this snapshot widely

 

Hi all,

 

Windows 10 App Essentials September 12th snapshot is out. Usually I don’t post messages about NVDA add-on snapshots unless necessary, and due to things included, I believe it is important that I and others receive a lot of feedback for this one. The reason is that I made changes to how NVDA cooperates with Cortana (during dictation mode), and would like to receive feedback from those using both 1511 and 1607 to make sure NVDA no longer speaks gibberish while you are talking to Cortana.

 

Important notice: until now, the add-on did not enforce version requirements. Starting today (and in 16.10 stable), the add-on will require that you use Windows 7 SP1 or later just in case you’d like to prepare to upgrade. Starting with December release, you’ll need Windows 10 Version 1511 (build 10586) or later in order to install this add-on.

 

Download link:

http://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=w10-dev

 

Please write to me privately if you have feedback so I can try incorporating them if it’s possible.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Sapi version of Acapela voices?

Paolo Leva
 

There is a product called infovox4:

http://www.acapela-group.com/infovox/


Re: *** SPAM *** Navigation Pane

Chris Mullins
 

There are two different search methods, one using the NVDA text search, the other using the text search built into Word itself.

In nvda you use NVDA+Ctrl+f to enter search criteria, then use NVDA+f3 and NVDA+shift+f3 to move forwards/backward between instances. In Word you use Ctrl+f to enter the search criteria, then Ctrl+pagedown and Ctrl+Pageup to move forward/backward between instances.

Cheers Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Huber
Sent: 12 September 2016 14:36
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane

Hi Gene:
I always thought that it was NVDAkey-f3 withought the control to repeat the search. Actually, that seems to work for me.
Kevin Huber

On 9/11/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
did you use nvda control f3 to repeat the search? That is the correct
procedure. NVDA key control f for the firrst search. NVDA control f3
for repetitions. It may not matter but at this point, we don't know
if the problem is the command being used or the way NVDA search works in Word.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 9:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane


Gene,



Yes, you are right that NVDA's browse mode works in MS Word. It does
bring the real cursor along with the virtual cursor. In fact, the
windows wearch can also be used while in browse mode.



The NVDA search, NVDA+control+f only finds one occurrence of the
result and not multiple occurrences like the control+f does.
Therefore, it seems to me that there is no point in using browse mode
to bring up multiple occurrences of the result.





All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie







I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The
Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails.
Try Spam Reader for free now!





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 3:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane



You have to manually enter browse mode, NVDA key space. As I said a
few days ago, and no one addressed my question, does that move the
actual application cursor along with the browse mode cursor or does it
just move the browse mode cursor. To get back to the application
cursor, once again, use NVDA key space. It's a toggle. At least I
should say, it's my understanding that in Word, this command toggles
browse mode on and off and it must be manually done.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra

Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 8:46 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane



Thanks, Daniel,



I cannot get NVDA+F3 to work in Word. It works here in Outlook all
right but not in Word.



Do you know where I might find a tutorial?



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie





I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The
Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails.
Try Spam Reader for free now!







I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The
Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails.
Try Spam Reader for free now!





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
LANGERON Daniel
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 2:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane



Hi both of you,
Just a brief "touch and go" into your discussion: What about using
the classic NVDA Key + F3 in order to reach the next occurrence you
are looking for ?
Hope that could help.
Daniel from Versailles France

Le 11/09/2016 14:54, Cearbhall O'Meadhra a écrit :

Gene,



Yes, F6 and shift F6 moves between the various parts of the Word screen.
Eventually F6 arrives at the search pane. This has three tabs headed
"Search", "Headings" and "Pages". My problem occurs when the Search
tool is in focus. Then I can type in a word that I want to find in the
document. If this word occurs a few times in the document, I should
get a list of results just below the search box. My problem is how to
go through each of

these results to pick the one that I am looking for?



I am using Word 2010 in Windows 7 with NVDA 2016.3.



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie







I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The
Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails.
Try Spam Reader for free now!





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 1:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Navigation Pane



Have you tried using f6 to move forward and shift f6 to move
backward among whatever panes may be opened?



Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra

Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 7:27 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Navigation Pane



Hi,



I am really struggling to find a good description of how to use the
Navigation Pane in Word 2010 with NVDA or, indeed, any screen reader!



Could anyone point me to a good tutorial or even set out the steps
that they use to move through the results of a word search after
pressing control-f in Word 2010, please?







All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie











Re: NVDA and Google Sheets/Docs

Devin Prater
 

I actually tried Google docs a while ago. Things seem to work okay, except when I arrow around, if there is italicized text, NVDA doesn't show that text is italicized if I arrow around. LibreOffice doesn't do this either, so maybe it's just an NVDA thing.

Devin Pratersent from Gmail.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:33 AM, <babcockldpvi@...> wrote:

Kerry:


Yes, it should do as Google Sheets and Docs have been designed to work with NVDA.

I have created a few help videos about using NVDA, keyboard shortcuts and Google Docs- the playlist can be found on YouTube here.

Also the same videos appear on my blog, together with full written transcripts and you can find that here.

Thanks, 




NVDA and spell checker (Word 2013)

Babcock LDPVI
 

Hello, 


I am trying to create a tutorial for a student about using the spell checker but what seems odd is that NVDA reads the suggested correction but does not read the original text. I am using Windows 10 and NVDA 2016.3.


Thanks, 


Re: *** SPAM *** Navigation Pane

Kevin Huber
 

Hi Gene:
I always thought that it was NVDAkey-f3 withought the control to
repeat the search. Actually, that seems to work for me.
Kevin Huber

On 9/11/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
did you use nvda control f3 to repeat the search? That is the correct
procedure. NVDA key control f for the firrst search. NVDA control f3 for
repetitions. It may not matter but at this point, we don't know if the
problem is the command being used or the way NVDA search works in Word.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 9:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane


Gene,



Yes, you are right that NVDA's browse mode works in MS Word. It does bring
the real cursor along with the virtual cursor. In fact, the windows wearch
can also be used while in browse mode.



The NVDA search, NVDA+control+f only finds one occurrence of the result and
not multiple occurrences like the control+f does. Therefore, it seems to me
that there is no point in using browse mode to bring up multiple occurrences
of the result.





All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie







I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional
version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for
free now!





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 3:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane



You have to manually enter browse mode, NVDA key space. As I said a few
days ago, and no one addressed my question, does that move the actual
application cursor along with the browse mode cursor or does it just move
the browse mode cursor. To get back to the application cursor, once again,
use NVDA key space. It's a toggle. At least I should say, it's my
understanding that in Word, this command toggles browse mode on and off and
it must be manually done.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra

Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 8:46 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane



Thanks, Daniel,



I cannot get NVDA+F3 to work in Word. It works here in Outlook all right but
not in Word.



Do you know where I might find a tutorial?



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie





I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional
version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for
free now!







I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional
version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for
free now!





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of LANGERON
Daniel
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 2:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** [nvda] Navigation Pane



Hi both of you,
Just a brief "touch and go" into your discussion: What about using the
classic NVDA Key + F3 in order to reach the next occurrence you are looking
for ?
Hope that could help.
Daniel from Versailles France

Le 11/09/2016 14:54, Cearbhall O'Meadhra a écrit :

Gene,



Yes, F6 and shift F6 moves between the various parts of the Word screen.
Eventually F6 arrives at the search pane. This has three tabs headed
"Search", "Headings" and "Pages". My problem occurs when the Search tool is
in focus. Then I can type in a word that I want to find in the document. If
this word occurs a few times in the document, I should get a list of results
just below the search box. My problem is how to go through each of

these results to pick the one that I am looking for?



I am using Word 2010 in Windows 7 with NVDA 2016.3.



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie







I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional
version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for
free now!





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 1:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Navigation Pane



Have you tried using f6 to move forward and shift f6 to move backward
among whatever panes may be opened?



Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra

Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 7:27 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Navigation Pane



Hi,



I am really struggling to find a good description of how to use the
Navigation Pane in Word 2010 with NVDA or, indeed, any screen reader!



Could anyone point me to a good tutorial or even set out the steps that
they use to move through the results of a word search after pressing
control-f in Word 2010, please?







All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie











Re: NVDA and Google Sheets/Docs

Babcock LDPVI
 

Kerry:


Yes, it should do as Google Sheets and Docs have been designed to work with NVDA.

I have created a few help videos about using NVDA, keyboard shortcuts and Google Docs- the playlist can be found on YouTube here.

Also the same videos appear on my blog, together with full written transcripts and you can find that here.

Thanks, 



Re: FW: Success! How to search in Word 2010 with NVDA

Kevin Huber
 

Hi:
Thanks for that idea. I just tried it and it works like a charm.

On 9/12/16, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie> wrote:
Good idea, Chris! I'll add that.


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional
version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails.
Try Spam Reader (http://www.spam-reader.com) for free now!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
Mullins
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 11:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: Success! How to search in Word 2010 with NVDA

That's a good tip, I hadn't realised the search criteria would be retained
without pressing enter and getting the full context of the first occurrence
is much better. Perhaps you should mention the option to wrap to the other
end of the document after no more occurrences of the search criteria are
found This occurs when searching in either direction.

Cheers
Chris.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Sent: 11 September 2016 23:23
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: Success! How to search in Word 2010 with NVDA

Daniel and friends,

My colleague, Ronan McGuirk and I have worked out a procedure almost
identical to that which Daniel has just posted. However, when we were
testing this, we found it best not to press the enter key after typing the
search word as you then only hear the actual word but not the full line in
which the word is located. Not pressing enter means that when you press the
escape key, you are placed at the same point on the screen where you
started. Pressing control-PageDown then places you on the first occurrence
of the search word and NVDA speaks the whole line containing the search
word.

Here is what we propose:
-----------------

How to search in Word 2010 with NVDA 2016.3.

Use the normal NVDA focus mode for editing not NVDA browse mode.

This approach lets you search forward from your current position in the
document.
If you want to search the entire document move to the top.
press control F and type the search term. Don't press enter.
press escape
This will return you to the document in edit mode at your start
position. Every occurrence of your search term is highlighted in the
document.
Press control-pagedown repeatedly to hear the search results in context one
by one.
Press control-pageUp repeatedly to go back up through the list of results.

I tested this with Word 2010 and NVDA 2016.3 on Windows 8.1. It seems to
work reliably.

I think Word 2013 is a little more obvious, but at least this is a better
solution for Word 2010.

In summary then:
1. Press control+f
2. Type some text to search for
3. Press escape
4. Press control+pageDown

Repeated presses of control-PageDown or control-PageUp will move back and
forth to the nearest line where the search text has been found and speak the
whole line.

All comments welcome,


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie














Re: We may see some really great Sounding TTS in the near feature

Devin Prater
 

I do hope that screen readers get this option for synthesizers. We still don't have the Google TTS as an NVDA addon.

Devin Pratersent from Gmail.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 6:47 AM, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...> wrote:

yes this does apply to NVDA or i hope it will in the future very soon!




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: We may see some really great Sounding TTS in the near feature
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 22:01:48 -0700
From: Warren Carr <warcarr@...>
Reply-To: eyes-free@...
To: eyes-free@...


I was reading a blog post from WaveNet and I was blown away by some of the stuff that they are doing.

 

I can’t wait to have those voices on our devices!

 

Here’s is the extract, followed by the URL to the page, and be sure to head over to that page, and take a listen to some of those voices.

 

If you don’t want to read while you are on the page, you can simply hit letter B, to take you to the “play button.”

 

The first ones are demonstrating how the current Google TTS sound, and then the latter ones, demonstrate the more modern sounding ones.

 

There are a couple other languages in there besides U.S. English and Chinese.

 

Quote:

 

This post presents WaveNet

, a deep generative model of raw audio waveforms. We show that WaveNets are able to generate speech which mimics any human voice and which sounds more

natural than the best existing Text-to-Speech systems, reducing the gap with human performance by over 50%.

 

We also demonstrate that the same network can be used to synthesize other audio signals such as music, and present some striking samples of automatically

generated piano pieces.

 

Talking Machines

 

Allowing people to converse with machines is a long-standing dream of human-computer interaction. The ability of computers to understand natural speech

has been revolutionised in the last few years by the application of deep neural networks (e.g., Google Voice Search ). However, generating speech with computers

 — a process usually referred to as

speech synthesis

or text-to-speech (TTS) — is still largely based on so-called concatenative TTS , where a very large database of short speech fragments are recorded from

a single speaker and then recombined to form complete utterances. This makes it difficult to modify the voice (for example switching to a different speaker,

or altering the emphasis or emotion of their speech) without recording a whole new database.

 

This has led to a great demand for parametric TTS

, where all the information required to generate the data is stored in the parameters of the model, and the contents and characteristics of the speech

can be controlled via the inputs to the model. So far, however, parametric TTS has tended to sound less natural than concatenative, at least for syllabic

languages such as English. Existing parametric models typically generate audio signals by passing their outputs through signal processing algorithms known

as

vocoders .

 

WaveNet changes this paradigm by directly modelling the raw waveform of the audio signal, one sample at a time. As well as yielding more natural-sounding

speech, using raw waveforms means that WaveNet can model any kind of audio, including music.

 

WaveNets

 

Wave animation

 

Researchers usually avoid modelling raw audio because it ticks so quickly: typically 16,000 samples per second or more, with important structure at many

time-scales. Building a completely autoregressive model, in which the prediction for every one of those samples is influenced by all previous ones (in

statistics-speak, each predictive distribution is conditioned on all previous observations), is clearly a challenging task.

 

However, our PixelRNN and PixelCNN

 models, published earlier this year, showed that it was possible to generate complex natural images not only one pixel at a time, but one colour-channel

at a time, requiring thousands of predictions per image. This inspired us to adapt our two-dimensional PixelNets to a one-dimensional WaveNet.

 

Architecture animation

 

The above animation shows how a WaveNet is structured. It is a fully convolutional neural network, where the convolutional layers have various dilation

factors that allow its receptive field to grow exponentially with depth and cover thousands of timesteps.

 

At training time, the input sequences are real waveforms recorded from human speakers. After training, we can sample the network to generate synthetic

utterances. At each step during sampling a value is drawn from the probability distribution computed by the network. This value is then fed back into the

input and a new prediction for the next step is made. Building up samples one step at a time like this is computationally expensive, but we have found

it essential for generating complex, realistic-sounding audio.

 

Improving the State of the Art

 

We trained WaveNet using some of Google’s TTS datasets so we could evaluate its performance. The following figure shows the quality of WaveNets on a scale

from 1 to 5, compared with Google’s current best TTS systems (

parametric and concatenative

), and with human speech using 

Mean Opinion Scores (MOS)

. MOS are a standard measure for subjective sound quality tests, and were obtained in blind tests with human subjects (from over 500 ratings on 100 test

sentences). As we can see, WaveNets reduce the gap between the state of the art and human-level performance by over 50% for both US English and Mandarin

Chinese.

 

For both Chinese and English, Google’s current TTS systems are considered among the best worldwide, so improving on both with a single model is a major

achievement.

 

Here are some samples from all three systems so you can listen and compare yourself:

End of quote from:

 

https://deepmind.com/blog/wavenet-generative-model-raw-audio/

 

What do you think?

 

Warren

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