Date   

Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

Gene
 

I had thought that those sorts of things were generally on the page but use black on black contrast so they aren't visible. But are many of these somehow coded so that screen-readers will read content that isn't on screen at all?

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] web sites detecting a screen reader

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 01:25 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
you know when you hear those options at the top of a page to jump to navigation, jump to main content, etc.? Those options don’t appear for sighted users.-
Yup. Those of us (I'm sighted) who've never touched a screen reader never even know they're there. These features are the Mr. Cellophane of web coding for the sighted (and for those who don't get the reference, go to YouTube and look up cellophane and Chicago).

There are all sorts of things done to improve accessibility that are intentionally hidden from view because they're useless (and would be darned annoying, actually) unless you happen to be using a screen reader.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

Gene
 

I don't thinkk that setting affects live regions. But those who have tested more than the very little I have can comment in an informed manner.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Robinett
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] web sites detecting a screen reader

Gene, you can tell NVDA not to announce dynamic content. This is probably the setting you had in mind. Perhaps you could create a separate configuration profile with that setting disabled and then switch to it only when you encounter those problematic websites?

On Oct 21, 2020, at 3:20 PM, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

I was asking in case others knew the answers. I searched the relevant settings areas and found nothing, the relevant areas being Document Formatting and Browse Mode Settings. I haven't chedcked Github. Perhaps I should have, I just thought these might be annoyances that might not bother others enough that an issue was filed, but someone may have done so.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 4:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] web sites detecting a screen reader

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 03:11 PM, Gene wrote:
Is the figure setting not being controlable an oversight and are there plans to have the user be able to turn off live region speech?-
Gene, I cannot answer this, other than to say if you don't have a GitHub Account for accessing the NVAccess/NVDA issues system you should consider getting one. This would be an issue, as far as I'm concerned, if there is no clear way to control it documented.

One of the big things lacking, as far as I'm concerned, in NVDA is the ability to search settings for a given word or phrase. Any software as complex as NVDA is going to have a number of settings that it's virtually impossible for any single person to remember in their entirety, or even where they are in the hierarchy. Given how software of this complexity is developed, and grows over time, certain settings may be in what seem to be very odd locations because where they now would seem to be logically placed did not even exist when they came into being. Settings searches have really become a necessity. If you were able to search settings on the word "figure" that should answer your current question, but you can't. But this is not an issue, per se, but a feature request/suggestion if we're talking a general purpose settings search.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn









Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

 

Well as a tester of websites myself, having tested a lot of sites, a lot of things can work out the box but bar banks and the like a lot of stuff can be accessible.

They shouldn't annoy.

The only time I have actually popped between so called accessible and non accessible sites is when the site in question does not display things in the right mode.



On 23/10/2020 6:55 am, Hope Williamson wrote:

I use a screen reader, and I still think they're annoying. Maybe that's just me, though. They get in the way.

On 10/22/2020 10:51 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 01:25 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
you know when you hear those options at the top of a page to jump to navigation, jump to main content, etc.? Those options don’t appear for sighted users.
-
Yup.  Those of us (I'm sighted) who've never touched a screen reader never even know they're there.  These features are the Mr. Cellophane of web coding for the sighted (and for those who don't get the reference, go to YouTube and look up cellophane and Chicago).

There are all sorts of things done to improve accessibility that are intentionally hidden from view because they're useless (and would be darned annoying, actually)  unless you happen to be using a screen reader.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

It’s all about personal preference. I don’t use those navigation links either but some might. The best solution is to create different NVDA configuration profiles and then switch between them as needed, based on particular sites. Currently we can only configure profiles to automatically load based on applications, not websites. It would be cool if this automatic functionality could eventually be extended to websites.

On Oct 22, 2020, at 11:10 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Hope,

          As the old sayings go, "Different strokes for different folks," and, "Each according to his or her own taste."

          That being said, I agree with Mr. Robinett that anyone needs to think long and hard before setting a flag on your screen reader to ignore accessibility-focused features in websites.  It often ends up being a "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" sort of affair.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


locked Re: well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much

Gene
 

It may be that on some systems, Thunderbird doesn't work correctly. I've seen complaints about sluggishness before, though most of the comments I've seen have been favorable.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much



Thunderbird is amazingly sluggish for me and takes up well over 700 MB of ram. How is this okay (not aimed at anyone here). Maybe it was my configuration.

I’ve been using Microsoft outlook which, surprisingly, works very well. Windows mail worked fantastic too though from what I remember it did not close threaded messages correctly and kept them all expanded. I’m not sure if that has been fixed.





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 11:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much







I actually agree.

Its got its own niggles but its still good enough.

And with waterfox, I just tried a full run.

While there are sites which will generate freezes, its only 1 or 2 and I can get round them.

Quite impressed with it, seems to be mostly working and thats good.







On 23/10/2020 2:40 am, Chris Smart wrote:



Thunderbird is great and responds really really quickly! and that's coming from someone who stubbornly stuck to using eudora, even into Windows 10.

Yes, I used Eudora for probably twenty years. LOL







Just curious, what annoys you about Thunderbird? It is highly customizable, so maybe you just need to tweak some things.







On 2020-10-22 9:06 a.m., John Sanfilippo wrote:



Hi, which PC app do you like for mail. I'm watching out for something to replace Thunderbird. Thanks.

John Sanfilippo


Re: nvda and ham calls

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Sara,

Using JAWS, there was a setting to 'spell alpha numeric expressions.'  NVDA does  not have this option. What I do when running nets is to highlight the callsign and then use the keypad 5 key to read the callsign and if I can't tell what the call is initially, I double punch the 5 key to have the expression spelled alpha numerically as in alpha alpha 2 victor Mike.


On 10/22/2020 1:26 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Hello to all. For those that don't know, I'm an amateur radio operator, and in a week I'm due to run a net. Fine, except I struggle with reading ham calls. I know on the BNS there was a ham calls option where it would read those such as ke7zum. Is there such a thing for nvda? Or can an option be thought of, an add on that could be turned on and off at will to allow for such? I know this won't happen by the 27th when I'm due to control, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like this.

I'm using the ibm tts voices but espeak and david does this as well. I can't code or I would find a way to do this myself.

The thing that makes this harder is not all call signs are 2 by 3 like mine. Some are a 1 by 1, or a 1 by 2. I've even seen some 2 by 2 calls.

Thanks all.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: nvda and ham calls

Roger Stewart
 

I'll second this one!  I can't understand regular expressions but someone might be able to make an add on to do this.

KG9GP

Roger








On 10/22/2020 12:26 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Hello to all. For those that don't know, I'm an amateur radio operator, and in a week I'm due to run a net. Fine, except I struggle with reading ham calls. I know on the BNS there was a ham calls option where it would read those such as ke7zum. Is there such a thing for nvda? Or can an option be thought of, an add on that could be turned on and off at will to allow for such? I know this won't happen by the 27th when I'm due to control, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like this.

I'm using the ibm tts voices but espeak and david does this as well. I can't code or I would find a way to do this myself.

The thing that makes this harder is not all call signs are 2 by 3 like mine. Some are a 1 by 1, or a 1 by 2. I've even seen some 2 by 2 calls.

Thanks all.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here



Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

 

Hope,

          As the old sayings go, "Different strokes for different folks," and, "Each according to his or her own taste."

          That being said, I agree with Mr. Robinett that anyone needs to think long and hard before setting a flag on your screen reader to ignore accessibility-focused features in websites.  It often ends up being a "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" sort of affair.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


locked Re: well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much

 

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 12:59 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:
takes up well over 700 MB of ram. How is this okay (not aimed at anyone here). Maybe it was my configuration.
-
And I'll bet you're right.  I often have browsers taking up 500 MB plus, sometimes 1 GB or more, of memory because of the number of tabs/windows I keep open, but I never see anything like that with Outlook, Thunderbird, eMClient, etc., as they're set up on my system.

Right now I have Outlook 2016 up in the main mail window and it's only taking approximately 34 MB.  Just closed it and fired up Tbird, which is taking just under 300 MB as it's working it's little heart out to sync things (I haven't fired it up in a while) and settles out around 250 MB afterward.  eM Client comes in at around 115 MB.

In the case of Tbird, I am using TbSync and another add-on that keep calendar and contacts in Sync with Gmail, and those definitely take up memory and CPU cycles of their own, but listed as Thunderbird.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

Hope Williamson
 

Me neither!!! Exactly, I much prefer quick navigation.

On 10/22/2020 11:02 AM, tim wrote:
Those features given at the top of screen for navigation I never used.
My screen reader offers better and those are just in the way for my
style of browsing.
On 10/22/2020 1:25 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
As a blind person, NVDA user and web developer myself, I don’t
recommend telling the screen reader to ignore the SR flag. It sounds
like there are a few misguided websites out there who are
implementing heavy-handed screen reader experiences on their pages,
but you know when you hear those options at the top of a page to jump
to navigation, jump to main content, etc.? Those options don’t appear
for sighted users. Behind the scenes, we use CSS media queries to
expose those options only when a screen reader is detected, and I
think we all agree those features are generally helpful. A similar
technique is used when a graphical icon is depicted visually but it’s
actual purpose ”menu,” ”settings,” ”submit,” etc. is spoken aloud to
screen reader users. In short, you might find websites become far
less accessible if you tell them to ignore the presence of a screen
reader.

On Oct 21, 2020, at 6:09 PM, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

Perhaps.  I can't think of more than perhaps three or four settings
but having something discussing them might be helpful.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 8:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] web sites detecting a screen reader

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 06:20 PM, Gene wrote:
I was asking in case others knew the answers.-
I guess my central point, whether it's you asking or someone else,
is that there is likely a small number of settings like this that
will be asked about again and again.  Having a piece of
user-maintained documentation for same can prove really helpful.

I'm not trying to put this in anyone's lap specifically, but tossing
the idea out there.  I am maintaining something analogous in a
completely different sphere, and not software related.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

    ~ Kelley Boorn














Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

tim
 

Those features given at the top of screen for navigation I never used.
My screen reader offers better and those are just in the way for my style of browsing.

On 10/22/2020 1:25 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
As a blind person, NVDA user and web developer myself, I don’t recommend telling the screen reader to ignore the SR flag. It sounds like there are a few misguided websites out there who are implementing heavy-handed screen reader experiences on their pages, but you know when you hear those options at the top of a page to jump to navigation, jump to main content, etc.? Those options don’t appear for sighted users. Behind the scenes, we use CSS media queries to expose those options only when a screen reader is detected, and I think we all agree those features are generally helpful. A similar technique is used when a graphical icon is depicted visually but it’s actual purpose ”menu,” ”settings,” ”submit,” etc. is spoken aloud to screen reader users. In short, you might find websites become far less accessible if you tell them to ignore the presence of a screen reader.

On Oct 21, 2020, at 6:09 PM, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

Perhaps. I can't think of more than perhaps three or four settings but having something discussing them might be helpful.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 8:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] web sites detecting a screen reader

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 06:20 PM, Gene wrote:
I was asking in case others knew the answers.-
I guess my central point, whether it's you asking or someone else, is that there is likely a small number of settings like this that will be asked about again and again. Having a piece of user-maintained documentation for same can prove really helpful.

I'm not trying to put this in anyone's lap specifically, but tossing the idea out there. I am maintaining something analogous in a completely different sphere, and not software related.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn









Re: Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

Louis Maher
 

Past experience suggests that Microsoft makes a change, and it breaks either NVDA or JAWS or both. 

 

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail ljmaher03@...

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 7:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Louis and others,

The question is : is this a Microsoft or NVDA issue?

I did not want to mention the screen reader’s name here, but as you did, I don’t encounter the problem with JAWS when the checkbox is enabled.

Best

Sylvie

De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Louis Maher via groups.io
Envoyé : jeudi 22 octobre 2020 12:42
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Folks,

 

Unchecking this box effects JAWS as well.

 

When the NVDA, or Microsoft, error is corrected, you can check this box, and your Excel editing will go faster.

 

 

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail ljmaher03@...

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 4:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Hello Louis and all,

Thank you for this tip, it works!

Does anyone know what this checkbox is for?

Why checking this box prevents NVDA from using braille in cells but not other screEn readers?

Best

Sylvie

De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Louis Maher via groups.io
Envoyé : mardi 20 octobre 2020 17:38
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Hello,

 

This problem comes up periodically.  You can try unchecking the box which says “allow editing directly in cells”.  In Excel 365, do this:
Open an Excel spreadsheet. 
Type alt + f. Up arrow to options, hit enter. Down arrow to advanced. Tab until you find the box which says “allow editing directly in cells. Uncheck that
box. Shift + Tab until you reach OK. Hit enter.

 

 

 

 

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail ljmaher03@...

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Hello,

This is the same here.

It seems to work better with other screen readers.

May be I should test with former NVDA version to see when this bug has started.

Best

Sylvie

 

De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Aine Kelly Costello via groups.io
Envoyé : mardi 20 octobre 2020 15:22
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

In Excel with pressing f2, I can view cell contents in Braille but not use cursor to edit. I can use the Braille keyboard to edit but the Braille doesn't update until I get out of that edit field
With QBraille XL and a recent NVDA alpha
Think this has been the case for a while


On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive.  What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


 On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive.  What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


Re: Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

Louis Maher
 

Hello,

This error shows up every couple of years. I believe Microsoft changes something and it takes the screen readers time to make a change. Another explanation is that Microsoft breaks something then fixes it. This issue comes and goes and predates Office 365.



Regards
Louis Maher
Phone: 713-444-7838
E-mail ljmaher03@outlook.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 9:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

Hello Howard and all,
As Louis wrote, this checkbox is in the Excel advanced options.
If you uncheck it, you can read Excel cells content in Braille when editing it with f2.
I contacted the Microsoft Disability Help Desk and told them about the problem. They told me they would investigate.
I had a look on an older PC with NVDA 2020.3 and Excel 2013. The Checkbox exists also and I did not identify the braille problem.
So I suppose it is related to Office 365 and NVDA.
Best
Sylvie
-----Message d'origine-----
De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Howard Traxler via groups.io Envoyé : jeudi 22 octobre 2020 16:29 À : nvda@nvda.groups.io Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

Someone please tell me about this checkbox.  To whom does it belong (JAWS, NVDA, windows, etc.) and where is it found?  I'd like to take a look.

Howard

On 10/22/2020 5:42 AM, Louis Maher wrote:

Folks,

Unchecking this box effects JAWS as well.

When the NVDA, or Microsoft, error is corrected, you can check this
box, and your Excel editing will go faster.

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail ljmaher03@outlook.com

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Sylvie Duchateau
*Sent:* Thursday, October 22, 2020 4:30 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for
Office 365

Hello Louis and all,

Thank you for this tip, it works!

Does anyone know what this checkbox is for?

Why checking this box prevents NVDA from using braille in cells but
not other screEn readers?

Best

Sylvie

*De :*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *De la part de*
Louis Maher via groups.io *Envoyé :* mardi 20 octobre 2020 17:38 *À :*
nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *Objet :* Re: [nvda]
Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

Hello,

This problem comes up periodically.  You can try unchecking the box
which says “allow editing directly in cells”.  In Excel 365, do this:
Open an Excel spreadsheet.
Type alt + f. Up arrow to options, hit enter. Down arrow to advanced.
Tab until you find the box which says “allow editing directly in
cells. Uncheck that box. Shift + Tab until you reach OK. Hit enter.

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail ljmaher03@outlook.com <mailto:ljmaher03@outlook.com>

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
*Sylvie Duchateau
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:28 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for
Office 365

Hello,

This is the same here.

It seems to work better with other screen readers.

May be I should test with former NVDA version to see when this bug has
started.

Best

Sylvie

*De :*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *De la part de*
Aine Kelly Costello via groups.io *Envoyé :* mardi 20 octobre 2020
15:22 *À :* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *Objet :*
Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

In Excel with pressing f2, I can view cell contents in Braille but not
use cursor to edit. I can use the Braille keyboard to edit but the
Braille doesn't update until I get out of that edit field With
QBraille XL and a recent NVDA alpha Think this has been the case for a
while


On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille
display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive. 
What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore

follow me on twitter:


https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.t
witter.com%2Fbmoore123&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd0665c5fa3704881a45908d87
69831a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63738974331875726
6%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6
Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=FrmfXrHPGqGtHQGlIR%2FfA9DN5jCt
lTxyT3tkbEbcmKs%3D&amp;reserved=0

<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
twitter.com%2Fbmoore123&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca444a07000f944f8255208d8766d
097e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637389557960464578%7
CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1
haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=r7SlRv51QnssRrXmpPpvWh4ppThc1sCep7FRm
tcmcUM%3D&reserved=0>

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have
encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a
particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the
Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille
display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact
Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


 On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille
display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive. 
What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore

follow me on twitter:


https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.t
witter.com%2Fbmoore123&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd0665c5fa3704881a45908d87
69831a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63738974331875726
6%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6
Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=FrmfXrHPGqGtHQGlIR%2FfA9DN5jCt
lTxyT3tkbEbcmKs%3D&amp;reserved=0

<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
twitter.com%2Fbmoore123&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca444a07000f944f8255208d8766d
097e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637389557960464578%7
CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1
haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=r7SlRv51QnssRrXmpPpvWh4ppThc1sCep7FRm
tcmcUM%3D&reserved=0>

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have
encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a
particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the
Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille
display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact
Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

Hope Williamson
 

I use a screen reader, and I still think they're annoying. Maybe that's just me, though. They get in the way.

On 10/22/2020 10:51 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 01:25 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
you know when you hear those options at the top of a page to jump to navigation, jump to main content, etc.? Those options don’t appear for sighted users.
-
Yup.  Those of us (I'm sighted) who've never touched a screen reader never even know they're there.  These features are the Mr. Cellophane of web coding for the sighted (and for those who don't get the reference, go to YouTube and look up cellophane and Chicago).

There are all sorts of things done to improve accessibility that are intentionally hidden from view because they're useless (and would be darned annoying, actually)  unless you happen to be using a screen reader.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


locked Re: well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much

 

Well if your email program is slow maybe you should check your inboxes and make sure you archive things right.

For me, I don't really keep anything much.
Most list mail I delete anything important I store outside the mail client.

Its been working for me so far.



On 23/10/2020 6:20 am, Tyler Wood wrote:

I beg to differ on all counts. When an email client takes well over 700 MB of ram, stops responding while browsing messages, takes 20 or more seconds to browse folders, I have a hard time using it or being productive. This is on a machine with an SSD, Ryzen 7 processor and plenty of ram to use, that being said.

Maybe things have changed lately – I’m more than willing to give thunderbird another go – but outlook has come leaps and bounds even over the last year, too, with both Jaws and NVDA.

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much

 

Funny, outlook is the example I give when someone asks me about sluggish software. Outlook paired with a certain other program named after a movie shark is even more so!

 

 

On 2020-10-22 1:00 p.m., Tyler Wood wrote:

Thunderbird is amazingly sluggish for me and takes up well over 700 MB of ram. How is this okay (not aimed at anyone here). Maybe it was my configuration.

I’ve been using Microsoft outlook which, surprisingly, works very well. Windows mail worked fantastic too though from what I remember it did not close threaded messages correctly and kept them all expanded. I’m not sure if that has been fixed.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 11:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much

 

 

I actually agree.

Its got its own niggles but its still good enough.

And with waterfox, I just tried a full run.

While there are sites which will generate freezes, its only 1 or 2 and I can get round them.

Quite impressed with it, seems to be mostly working and thats good.

 

 

On 23/10/2020 2:40 am, Chris Smart wrote:

Thunderbird is great and responds really really quickly! and that's coming from someone who stubbornly stuck to using eudora, even into Windows 10.

Yes, I used Eudora for probably twenty years. LOL

 

Just curious, what annoys you about Thunderbird? It is highly customizable, so maybe you just need to tweak some things.

 

On 2020-10-22 9:06 a.m., John Sanfilippo wrote:

Hi, which PC app do you like for mail. I'm watching out for something to replace Thunderbird. Thanks.

John Sanfilippo


Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

 

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 01:25 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
you know when you hear those options at the top of a page to jump to navigation, jump to main content, etc.? Those options don’t appear for sighted users.
-
Yup.  Those of us (I'm sighted) who've never touched a screen reader never even know they're there.  These features are the Mr. Cellophane of web coding for the sighted (and for those who don't get the reference, go to YouTube and look up cellophane and Chicago).

There are all sorts of things done to improve accessibility that are intentionally hidden from view because they're useless (and would be darned annoying, actually)  unless you happen to be using a screen reader.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


locked Re: well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much

Chris Smart
 

I haven't noticed any of that. I don't know about RAM usage, but performance is snappy.



On 2020-10-22 1:20 p.m., Tyler Wood wrote:

I beg to differ on all counts. When an email client takes well over 700 MB of ram, stops responding while browsing messages, takes 20 or more seconds to browse folders, I have a hard time using it or being productive. This is on a machine with an SSD, Ryzen 7 processor and plenty of ram to use, that being said.

Maybe things have changed lately – I’m more than willing to give thunderbird another go – but outlook has come leaps and bounds even over the last year, too, with both Jaws and NVDA.

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much

 

Funny, outlook is the example I give when someone asks me about sluggish software. Outlook paired with a certain other program named after a movie shark is even more so!

 

 

On 2020-10-22 1:00 p.m., Tyler Wood wrote:

Thunderbird is amazingly sluggish for me and takes up well over 700 MB of ram. How is this okay (not aimed at anyone here). Maybe it was my configuration.

I’ve been using Microsoft outlook which, surprisingly, works very well. Windows mail worked fantastic too though from what I remember it did not close threaded messages correctly and kept them all expanded. I’m not sure if that has been fixed.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 11:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] well, I guess I shouldn't have expected much

 

 

I actually agree.

Its got its own niggles but its still good enough.

And with waterfox, I just tried a full run.

While there are sites which will generate freezes, its only 1 or 2 and I can get round them.

Quite impressed with it, seems to be mostly working and thats good.

 

 

On 23/10/2020 2:40 am, Chris Smart wrote:

Thunderbird is great and responds really really quickly! and that's coming from someone who stubbornly stuck to using eudora, even into Windows 10.

Yes, I used Eudora for probably twenty years. LOL

 

Just curious, what annoys you about Thunderbird? It is highly customizable, so maybe you just need to tweak some things.

 

On 2020-10-22 9:06 a.m., John Sanfilippo wrote:

Hi, which PC app do you like for mail. I'm watching out for something to replace Thunderbird. Thanks.

John Sanfilippo


nvda and ham calls

Sarah k Alawami
 

Hello to all. For those that don't know, I'm an amateur radio operator, and in a week I'm due to run a net. Fine, except I struggle with reading ham calls. I know on the BNS there was a ham calls option where it would read those such as ke7zum. Is there such a thing for nvda? Or can an option be thought of, an add on that could be turned on and off at will to allow for such? I know this won't happen by the 27th when I'm due to control, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like this.

I'm using the ibm tts voices but espeak and david does this as well. I can't code or I would find a way to do this myself.

The thing that makes this harder is not all call signs are 2 by 3 like mine. Some are a 1 by 1, or a 1 by 2. I've even seen some 2 by 2 calls.

Thanks all.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here


Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

As a blind person, NVDA user and web developer myself, I don’t recommend telling the screen reader to ignore the SR flag. It sounds like there are a few misguided websites out there who are implementing heavy-handed screen reader experiences on their pages, but you know when you hear those options at the top of a page to jump to navigation, jump to main content, etc.? Those options don’t appear for sighted users. Behind the scenes, we use CSS media queries to expose those options only when a screen reader is detected, and I think we all agree those features are generally helpful. A similar technique is used when a graphical icon is depicted visually but it’s actual purpose ”menu,” ”settings,” ”submit,” etc. is spoken aloud to screen reader users. In short, you might find websites become far less accessible if you tell them to ignore the presence of a screen reader.

On Oct 21, 2020, at 6:09 PM, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

Perhaps. I can't think of more than perhaps three or four settings but having something discussing them might be helpful.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 8:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] web sites detecting a screen reader

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 06:20 PM, Gene wrote:
I was asking in case others knew the answers.-
I guess my central point, whether it's you asking or someone else, is that there is likely a small number of settings like this that will be asked about again and again. Having a piece of user-maintained documentation for same can prove really helpful.

I'm not trying to put this in anyone's lap specifically, but tossing the idea out there. I am maintaining something analogous in a completely different sphere, and not software related.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn









Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

Gene, you can tell NVDA not to announce dynamic content. This is probably the setting you had in mind. Perhaps you could create a separate configuration profile with that setting disabled and then switch to it only when you encounter those problematic websites?

On Oct 21, 2020, at 3:20 PM, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

I was asking in case others knew the answers. I searched the relevant settings areas and found nothing, the relevant areas being Document Formatting and Browse Mode Settings. I haven't chedcked Github. Perhaps I should have, I just thought these might be annoyances that might not bother others enough that an issue was filed, but someone may have done so.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 4:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] web sites detecting a screen reader

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 03:11 PM, Gene wrote:
Is the figure setting not being controlable an oversight and are there plans to have the user be able to turn off live region speech?-
Gene, I cannot answer this, other than to say if you don't have a GitHub Account for accessing the NVAccess/NVDA issues system you should consider getting one. This would be an issue, as far as I'm concerned, if there is no clear way to control it documented.

One of the big things lacking, as far as I'm concerned, in NVDA is the ability to search settings for a given word or phrase. Any software as complex as NVDA is going to have a number of settings that it's virtually impossible for any single person to remember in their entirety, or even where they are in the hierarchy. Given how software of this complexity is developed, and grows over time, certain settings may be in what seem to be very odd locations because where they now would seem to be logically placed did not even exist when they came into being. Settings searches have really become a necessity. If you were able to search settings on the word "figure" that should answer your current question, but you can't. But this is not an issue, per se, but a feature request/suggestion if we're talking a general purpose settings search.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn








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