Date   

Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

Gene
 

I don't usually see double question marks or double exclamation points.  And such are far more likely to be the result of errors.  Again, a screen-reader should not treat nonstandard syntax as though it was standard syntax. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading

Chris,

            And what I'm telling you is that the first version of the question does not read correctly, to my ears, in either NVDA or Window-Eyes and the second two read precisely the same way.

            Since double exclamation points and double question marks (and/or combinations thereof) are not uncommon I have no issue with a screen reader reading these without any extra string of punctuation.

            I agree that a terminal space before the question mark itself is syntactically incorrect and the words should be read followed by "question mark" announcing the punctuation.  There is no case in written English that I know of where a question mark can "free float" and be syntactically correct.  It is always firmly attached to the final word in a question construction.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

 

Chris,

            And what I'm telling you is that the first version of the question does not read correctly, to my ears, in either NVDA or Window-Eyes and the second two read precisely the same way.

            Since double exclamation points and double question marks (and/or combinations thereof) are not uncommon I have no issue with a screen reader reading these without any extra string of punctuation.

            I agree that a terminal space before the question mark itself is syntactically incorrect and the words should be read followed by "question mark" announcing the punctuation.  There is no case in written English that I know of where a question mark can "free float" and be syntactically correct.  It is always firmly attached to the final word in a question construction.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

Chris Mullins
 

Have you altered the Punctuation/Symbols/pronunciation settings in the NVDA preferences menu to try and obtain your desired results?

Personally, I think the first sentence is syntactically correct and should speak with rising intonation at the end without announcing the question mark symbol and the other two sentences should announce the question mark symbols. I achieved this by by setting the sentence ending question to all and always and the question mark symbol to most and below symbol level.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paulius
Sent: 30 June 2016 14:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading

Hi group!
I just found some strange NVDA's reading issues that I think need to be fixed:
I will write 3 same sentences but with diffrent punctuation.:
Any questions?
Any questions??
Any questions ?
So, what's the difference? NVDA doesn't show these are the questions when the question mark is after space or when it is more than 1 question mark into the same sentence.

I hope this will be fixed.
Sincerely,
Paulius Leveris


a quick question about a refreshabraille 18 display

brandon
 

Hello all,
This is just a quick question does anyone know how to make a refreshabraille 18 have a backspace key?
I know you can do enter but you cannot do a backspace command with this display is there a work around for this?
Thanks in advance,
Brandon,
Reed


Re: OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox

 

I'm glad I could help.





On 6/30/2016 2:40 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Thanks.
 
Busy downloading it now.
 
Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox

Here's the more direct way. If you google, this should be the first result in the search: https://nightly.mozilla.org/




On 6/30/2016 1:38 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Sorry, but, just reinstalled my windows 10 64 bit machine from scratch, for a clean install, and, immediately, firefox seems to be crashing way too often, and, at times makes NVDA seemingly get confused, and, know last time, switching over to a sort of pre-release version of firefox helped, but, can't find the relevant install links in my mail archives, etc.
 
However, know it was someone on this list who helped me out last time..?
 
TIA

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."



Re: OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox

Jacob Kruger
 

Thanks.
 
Busy downloading it now.
 
Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox

Here's the more direct way. If you google, this should be the first result in the search: https://nightly.mozilla.org/




On 6/30/2016 1:38 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Sorry, but, just reinstalled my windows 10 64 bit machine from scratch, for a clean install, and, immediately, firefox seems to be crashing way too often, and, at times makes NVDA seemingly get confused, and, know last time, switching over to a sort of pre-release version of firefox helped, but, can't find the relevant install links in my mail archives, etc.
 
However, know it was someone on this list who helped me out last time..?
 
TIA

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."


Re: OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox

 

Here's the more direct way. If you google, this should be the first result in the search: https://nightly.mozilla.org/




On 6/30/2016 1:38 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Sorry, but, just reinstalled my windows 10 64 bit machine from scratch, for a clean install, and, immediately, firefox seems to be crashing way too often, and, at times makes NVDA seemingly get confused, and, know last time, switching over to a sort of pre-release version of firefox helped, but, can't find the relevant install links in my mail archives, etc.
 
However, know it was someone on this list who helped me out last time..?
 
TIA

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."


Re: OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox

 

If you google Firefox nightly, that should do the trick. HTH





On 6/30/2016 1:38 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Sorry, but, just reinstalled my windows 10 64 bit machine from scratch, for a clean install, and, immediately, firefox seems to be crashing way too often, and, at times makes NVDA seemingly get confused, and, know last time, switching over to a sort of pre-release version of firefox helped, but, can't find the relevant install links in my mail archives, etc.
 
However, know it was someone on this list who helped me out last time..?
 
TIA

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."


OT: How to, again, switch over to sort of pre-release firefox

Jacob Kruger
 

Sorry, but, just reinstalled my windows 10 64 bit machine from scratch, for a clean install, and, immediately, firefox seems to be crashing way too often, and, at times makes NVDA seemingly get confused, and, know last time, switching over to a sort of pre-release version of firefox helped, but, can't find the relevant install links in my mail archives, etc.
 
However, know it was someone on this list who helped me out last time..?
 
TIA

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."


Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

 

Andre,

          I don't know how that fixes anything.  I still don't get the correct rising intonation on a sentence ending in a question mark.  That being said, I get precisely the same verbalization out of Window-Eyes, which I still consider peculiar.  It doesn't sound anything like the way most people say "Any questions?," in that the rise in intonation, and it's subtle, is on the 'a' in "any" with nothing on the "ions" in "questions".

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

Gene
 

If there is an error such as a question mark being written twice, NVDA should not read it correctly or somehow alert the listener that there is a problem with the syntax.  How can you properly proofread a document if incorrect punctuation is read identically to correct punctuation or if you are not alerted in some other way or in both ways that there is a problem? 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading

This is indeed an NVDA issue, but can easily be fixed.
1. Go to the symbol pronunciation dialog.
2. Press the question mark twice. If you hear something like All and
Never, move on.
3. Tab to send...to synthesizer and change to either only before... or always.
Thanks

On 6/30/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> I decided to give this a whirl myself and I do suspect that something's up.
>
> I am used to most screen readers marking a question in the way that most
> people do, with a rising intonation at the end of the phrase at the end of
> the question.
>
> If I enter the sentence, "If there are any questions, please ask them now,"
> followed immediately by, "Any questions?," I don't get any rising intonation
> at the end of the word "questions" in the question and seem to get
> additional punch on the "Any".
>
> I am not, however, getting any difference that I can hear on the double
> question mark version nor the space followed by question mark version in
> comparison to the conventional punctuation.  I am using NVDA 2016.2.1 on a
> Windows 10 Home 64-bit machine using the Microsoft SAPI-5 synthesizer and
> the Microsoft David Desktop English voice with no audio ducking on.
> --
> Brian
>
> I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never
> enough to keep up.
>          ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in
> the Universe"
>




Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

Gene
 

I do not get the results you describe using E-Speak.  The first sentence is read properly and the second sentence, Any questions?, is read with a proper rising intonation.   
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading

I decided to give this a whirl myself and I do suspect that something's up.

I am used to most screen readers marking a question in the way that most people do, with a rising intonation at the end of the phrase at the end of the question.

If I enter the sentence, "If there are any questions, please ask them now," followed immediately by, "Any questions?," I don't get any rising intonation at the end of the word "questions" in the question and seem to get additional punch on the "Any".

I am not, however, getting any difference that I can hear on the double question mark version nor the space followed by question mark version in comparison to the conventional punctuation.  I am using NVDA 2016.2.1 on a Windows 10 Home 64-bit machine using the Microsoft SAPI-5 synthesizer and the Microsoft David Desktop English voice with no audio ducking on.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

Andre Fisher
 

This is indeed an NVDA issue, but can easily be fixed.
1. Go to the symbol pronunciation dialog.
2. Press the question mark twice. If you hear something like All and
Never, move on.
3. Tab to send...to synthesizer and change to either only before... or always.
Thanks

On 6/30/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
I decided to give this a whirl myself and I do suspect that something's up.

I am used to most screen readers marking a question in the way that most
people do, with a rising intonation at the end of the phrase at the end of
the question.

If I enter the sentence, "If there are any questions, please ask them now,"
followed immediately by, "Any questions?," I don't get any rising intonation
at the end of the word "questions" in the question and seem to get
additional punch on the "Any".

I am not, however, getting any difference that I can hear on the double
question mark version nor the space followed by question mark version in
comparison to the conventional punctuation.  I am using NVDA 2016.2.1 on a
Windows 10 Home 64-bit machine using the Microsoft SAPI-5 synthesizer and
the Microsoft David Desktop English voice with no audio ducking on.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never
enough to keep up.
         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in
the Universe"


Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

 

I decided to give this a whirl myself and I do suspect that something's up.

I am used to most screen readers marking a question in the way that most people do, with a rising intonation at the end of the phrase at the end of the question.

If I enter the sentence, "If there are any questions, please ask them now," followed immediately by, "Any questions?," I don't get any rising intonation at the end of the word "questions" in the question and seem to get additional punch on the "Any".

I am not, however, getting any difference that I can hear on the double question mark version nor the space followed by question mark version in comparison to the conventional punctuation.  I am using NVDA 2016.2.1 on a Windows 10 Home 64-bit machine using the Microsoft SAPI-5 synthesizer and the Microsoft David Desktop English voice with no audio ducking on.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

 

I don't think that is the synthesizer error, because in JAWS all is OK.

2016-06-30 17:12 GMT+03:00, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com>:

We don't know if this has anything to do with NVDA. It could be the way the
synthesizer reads. And what does "fix" mean? Are you saying question mark
should be spoken or that improper syntax be indicated so you will know there
is an error? That might make sense but that is probably asking for a new
feature, not for something to be fixed.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Paulius
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading


Hi group!
I just found some strange NVDA's reading issues that I think need to be
fixed:
I will write 3 same sentences but with diffrent punctuation.:
Any questions?
Any questions??
Any questions ?
So, what's the difference? NVDA doesn't show these are the questions
when the question mark is after space or when it is more than 1
question mark into the same sentence.

I hope this will be fixed.
Sincerely,
Paulius Leveris



Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

Gene
 

We don't know if this has anything to do with NVDA.  It could be the way the synthesizer reads.  And what does "fix" mean?  Are you saying question mark should be spoken or that improper syntax be indicated so you will know there is an error?  That might make sense but that is probably asking for a new feature, not for something to be fixed.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Paulius
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] Some issues with NVDA's reading

Hi group!
I just found some strange NVDA's reading issues that I think need to be fixed:
I will write 3 same sentences but with diffrent punctuation.:
Any questions?
Any questions??
Any questions ?
So, what's the difference? NVDA doesn't show these are the questions
when the question mark is after space or when it is more than 1
question mark into the same sentence.

I hope this will be fixed.
Sincerely,
Paulius Leveris



Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

 

I tried this with Eloquence, eSpeak and SAPI5 Default, all are making
that result...

2016-06-30 16:52 GMT+03:00, John Sanfilippo <john.sanfilippo@verizon.net>:

Hi,


I only wonder how much depends on what speech synth is in use.


Regards,

John s





On 6/30/16 14:47, Paulius wrote:
Hi group!
I just found some strange NVDA's reading issues that I think need to be
fixed:
I will write 3 same sentences but with diffrent punctuation.:
Any questions?
Any questions??
Any questions ?
So, what's the difference? NVDA doesn't show these are the questions
when the question mark is after space or when it is more than 1
question mark into the same sentence.

I hope this will be fixed.
Sincerely,
Paulius Leveris







Re: Some issues with NVDA's reading

John Sanfilippo <john.sanfilippo@...>
 

Hi,


I only wonder how much depends on what speech synth is in use.


Regards,

John s

On 6/30/16 14:47, Paulius wrote:
Hi group!
I just found some strange NVDA's reading issues that I think need to be fixed:
I will write 3 same sentences but with diffrent punctuation.:
Any questions?
Any questions??
Any questions ?
So, what's the difference? NVDA doesn't show these are the questions
when the question mark is after space or when it is more than 1
question mark into the same sentence.

I hope this will be fixed.
Sincerely,
Paulius Leveris



Some issues with NVDA's reading

 

Hi group!
I just found some strange NVDA's reading issues that I think need to be fixed:
I will write 3 same sentences but with diffrent punctuation.:
Any questions?
Any questions??
Any questions ?
So, what's the difference? NVDA doesn't show these are the questions
when the question mark is after space or when it is more than 1
question mark into the same sentence.

I hope this will be fixed.
Sincerely,
Paulius Leveris


Re: More on google drive installation

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

I had to give up and get a sighted person to bring the focus into the web view window. None of the tricks in nvda seemed to be able to do this, it needed a mouse user who could see the pointer to do it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account" <bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 11:00 AM
Subject: [nvda] More on google drive installation


It seems that google drive has had an update in the last few days causing this log in screen not to work with nvda. I surmise this as I just took another xp machine and installed it and the same problem occurs. Unfortunately, the installer is a stub, which downloads the main installer and hence there is no choice to download the earlier one that worked
The program seems to be written in Python, and the offending screen is labelled as WX web view.
The stuff on this can be seen by narrator, but it just reads it like a load of text and no keyboard interaction appears to be possible. Its obviosly not triggering the virtual buffer in nvda which marks it as web content so the only way I'll be able to log in for the first time seems to be by connecting monitors to the machines and inviting a mouse user to do it.
Does anyone here know if this problem has been reported to google?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.