Date   

Re: Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

Sylvie Duchateau
 

Louis and others,

The question is : is this a Microsoft or NVDA issue?

I did not want to mention the screen reader’s name here, but as you did, I don’t encounter the problem with JAWS when the checkbox is enabled.

Best

Sylvie

De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Louis Maher via groups.io
Envoyé : jeudi 22 octobre 2020 12:42
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Folks,

 

Unchecking this box effects JAWS as well.

 

When the NVDA, or Microsoft, error is corrected, you can check this box, and your Excel editing will go faster.

 

 

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail ljmaher03@...

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 4:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Hello Louis and all,

Thank you for this tip, it works!

Does anyone know what this checkbox is for?

Why checking this box prevents NVDA from using braille in cells but not other screEn readers?

Best

Sylvie

De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Louis Maher via groups.io
Envoyé : mardi 20 octobre 2020 17:38
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Hello,

 

This problem comes up periodically.  You can try unchecking the box which says “allow editing directly in cells”.  In Excel 365, do this:
Open an Excel spreadsheet. 
Type alt + f. Up arrow to options, hit enter. Down arrow to advanced. Tab until you find the box which says “allow editing directly in cells. Uncheck that
box. Shift + Tab until you reach OK. Hit enter.

 

 

 

 

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail ljmaher03@...

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Hello,

This is the same here.

It seems to work better with other screen readers.

May be I should test with former NVDA version to see when this bug has started.

Best

Sylvie

 

De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Aine Kelly Costello via groups.io
Envoyé : mardi 20 octobre 2020 15:22
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

In Excel with pressing f2, I can view cell contents in Braille but not use cursor to edit. I can use the Braille keyboard to edit but the Braille doesn't update until I get out of that edit field
With QBraille XL and a recent NVDA alpha
Think this has been the case for a while


On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive.  What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


 On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive.  What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


Re: Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

Louis Maher
 

Folks,

 

Unchecking this box effects JAWS as well.

 

When the NVDA, or Microsoft, error is corrected, you can check this box, and your Excel editing will go faster.

 

 

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail ljmaher03@...

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 4:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Hello Louis and all,

Thank you for this tip, it works!

Does anyone know what this checkbox is for?

Why checking this box prevents NVDA from using braille in cells but not other screEn readers?

Best

Sylvie

De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Louis Maher via groups.io
Envoyé : mardi 20 octobre 2020 17:38
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Hello,

 

This problem comes up periodically.  You can try unchecking the box which says “allow editing directly in cells”.  In Excel 365, do this:
Open an Excel spreadsheet. 
Type alt + f. Up arrow to options, hit enter. Down arrow to advanced. Tab until you find the box which says “allow editing directly in cells. Uncheck that
box. Shift + Tab until you reach OK. Hit enter.

 

 

 

 

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail ljmaher03@...

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Hello,

This is the same here.

It seems to work better with other screen readers.

May be I should test with former NVDA version to see when this bug has started.

Best

Sylvie

 

De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Aine Kelly Costello via groups.io
Envoyé : mardi 20 octobre 2020 15:22
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

In Excel with pressing f2, I can view cell contents in Braille but not use cursor to edit. I can use the Braille keyboard to edit but the Braille doesn't update until I get out of that edit field
With QBraille XL and a recent NVDA alpha
Think this has been the case for a while


On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive.  What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


 On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive.  What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


Re: NVDA misbehaving after a Windows Update and NVDA Update

r pardhasaradhi reddy <rpsreddy00@...>
 

Hello sir! first of all thankyou reply to me.I update windows to 2018 to 2020. When I update the windows, NVDA Is doesn't speak some buttons and When I going to chrome browser NVDA doesn't respond to me.When I press the shift tab or tab or insert+B it saying pain button.I remove the all addons in NVDA.
But my problem is not solved.
2 hours back your told me one option that is restart with addons option.
I find that option But it said restart with the addons disable
When I focused the that option then press enter  my NVDA was restarted.
but My problem is not solved.
Please tell me sir? How can I solve my problem.
My NVDA version  is 2020point 3


Re: Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

Sylvie Duchateau
 

Hello Louis and all,

Thank you for this tip, it works!

Does anyone know what this checkbox is for?

Why checking this box prevents NVDA from using braille in cells but not other screEn readers?

Best

Sylvie

De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Louis Maher via groups.io
Envoyé : mardi 20 octobre 2020 17:38
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Hello,

 

This problem comes up periodically.  You can try unchecking the box which says “allow editing directly in cells”.  In Excel 365, do this:
Open an Excel spreadsheet. 
Type alt + f. Up arrow to options, hit enter. Down arrow to advanced. Tab until you find the box which says “allow editing directly in cells. Uncheck that
box. Shift + Tab until you reach OK. Hit enter.

 

 

 

 

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail ljmaher03@...

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sylvie Duchateau
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

Hello,

This is the same here.

It seems to work better with other screen readers.

May be I should test with former NVDA version to see when this bug has started.

Best

Sylvie

 

De : nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> De la part de Aine Kelly Costello via groups.io
Envoyé : mardi 20 octobre 2020 15:22
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] Accessing cell content in Braille in Excel for Office 365

 

In Excel with pressing f2, I can view cell contents in Braille but not use cursor to edit. I can use the Braille keyboard to edit but the Braille doesn't update until I get out of that edit field
With QBraille XL and a recent NVDA alpha
Think this has been the case for a while


On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive.  What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


 On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 08:13 AM, Brian Moore wrote:

Hi.  this is strange. Not having this problem with a braille display and a shared sheet shared through corporate one drive.  What display are you using?

Brian.

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 10/19/2020 11:12 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:

Hello all,

Using Office 365 for companies for some months now, I have encountered one problem accessing cell content in Braille.

When I want to edit a shared Excel file and write in a particular cell, opening it with F2, NVDA does not refresh the Braille display and I cannot correct typos with the braille display, only with the speech synthesiser.

I use last NVDA 2020.3 version with Office 365 for businesses.

Is it a known problem of NVDA or should I rather contact Microsoft?

Thank you for any experience some of you may have.

Best

Sylvie


Re: NVDA misbehaving after a Windows Update and NVDA Update

Quentin Christensen
 

I'm a bit confused about what exactly you've updated... 2018.3 sounds like an NVDA version (from 2018) moreso than a Windows version.  In any case, have you restarted your PC since you updated.

If you did update NVDA from 2018.3 to 2020.3, are you using any NVDA add-ons?  You should have been warned about any which are incompatible between these two versions, but I thought I'd check just in case.  If you press NVDA+Q then down arrow to "Restart NVDA with add-ons disabled", you can restart NVDA and check whether it works better.

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 7:24 PM r pardhasaradhi reddy <rpsreddy00@...> wrote:

Hello nvda community! I am facing an issue with NVDA screen reader software. Yesterday I update my Windows 10 version 2018.3 to 2020.
So when I updated my Windows nvda software does not work properly.
It doesn't speak some buttons example when I press the tab button start button cortana button show desktop button and some more buttons but nvda hasn't speak some buttons and dialogue boxes.
When I going to Chrome browser in every time nvda has not responded.
I have to reset the all nvda settings but my problem is not solved.
I already uninstall the software and reinstall it but no change.
Narrator and jaws both are working properly.
How can I solve my problem please help me. Thank you



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


NVDA misbehaving after a Windows Update and NVDA Update

r pardhasaradhi reddy <rpsreddy00@...>
 

Hello nvda community! I am facing an issue with NVDA screen reader software. Yesterday I update my Windows 10 version 2018.3 to 2020.
So when I updated my Windows nvda software does not work properly.
It doesn't speak some buttons example when I press the tab button start button cortana button show desktop button and some more buttons but nvda hasn't speak some buttons and dialogue boxes.
When I going to Chrome browser in every time nvda has not responded.
I have to reset the all nvda settings but my problem is not solved.
I already uninstall the software and reinstall it but no change.
Narrator and jaws both are working properly.
How can I solve my problem please help me. Thank you


Re: windows feature update 20h2

enes sarıbaş
 

For this update, I will wait a bit, but if it won't come up in a few days, I will likely force it. Also, getting a new computer, and will download the 2009 iso and directly install that.

On 10/21/2020 8:24 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Enes,

          Actually it's not really weird at all, but an evolution in the workings of Windows Update.  Fully automatic updates without user intervention are now a thing of the past unless someone keeps a version on their machine that is actually going out of support.  Windows Update itself interrogates the actual computer it's on to determine the hardware profile, and depending on that hardware profile, it will or will not be added to an update cohort where a Feature Update is offered for the user to Download and install.  There have even been instances where a Feature Update has been offered, but the offer not taken up by the end user, and it gets retracted for a time because some "late breaking problem" has been identified that was not known for that hardware profile previously.

            Check for Updates as a way to force update has been eliminated, too.  The only two ways I know of to force update are using the Update Assistant or the Win10 ISO file to do a feature update, neither of which is a good idea in the early days of any Feature Update release.

             As has been said on many occasions, by many other than myself, best practice with regard to Feature Updates is to do an occasional check of the Windows Update pane to see if it's been offered.  Then, and only then, and preferably after having done a full system image update, should the Download and install link be activated to apply the Feature Update.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: Buying Compact vocalizer voices

Socheat
 

Yes. They are different. Vocalizer voices from Tiflotecnia offers three variants. There are compact, plus, and premium high voices. While Code Factory's version offers only embedded pro and embedded high.

On 10/21/2020 8:18 PM, David Goldfield wrote:
Well, my copy of the Eloquence/Vocalizer voices allows for two versions, embedded pro, which is smaller in size, and embedded high. The embedded pro voices sound a bit like the compact voices. Are they actually different from those voices?

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 10/21/2020 4:51 AM, Socheat Muth wrote:

Hmm. Can't see them listed here. Maybe I'm missing something. Only the premium and premium high are listed.

On 10/21/2020 10:45 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Actually, the Eloquence/Vocalizer NVDA voices from Code Factory are supplied with both the compact as well as the higher quality Vocalizer voices.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 10/20/2020 11:29 PM, Socheat Muth wrote:
It depends on what Vocalizer voices you are purchasing from. If you buy the one from Tiflotecnia, they have both the compact voices and premium voices. But if you buy the vocalizer from Code Factory, the only voices that available to you are premium voices only.

On 10/21/2020 1:27 AM, Daniel McGee wrote:
It is because I have a hearing impairment. This is why I prefer  compact versions. I'm only seeing the normal versions of the vocalizer expressive voices and not the compact ones.

On 20 Oct 2020, at 17:24, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins@...> wrote:

I personally don't know why people like the compact voices.  To me,
they sound like complete crap and are all full of static.  I've got
Daniel on my computer and could use him with NVDA if I wanted.  I have
the scansoft version of him using SAPI5.  However, he isn't my
favorite voice.  He sounds very arrogant and snobbish at least to me.
But to each their own.  Good luck.

On 10/20/20, Chris via groups.io <chrismedley@...> wrote:
You get all voices available to you to use including Daniel and whatever
other voices you need to use


From: Daniel McGee
Sent: 20 October 2020 16:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Buying Compact vocalizer voices

H








-- 
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson

















Re: lion OCR addon

Quentin Christensen
 

What does this add-on do differently than using the built-in OCR (NVDA+R then navigation or reading keys and escape when done).


On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 3:37 AM CARLOS-ESTEBAN <carlosestebanpianista@...> wrote:
Hello.
I have NVDA 2020.3 and Lion 1.11beta addon work in my system. Remember that this add-on uses the OCR of Windows 10.
First, you have Windows 10 and the OCR work?
You disabled the screen curtain before pressing NVDA+alt+L?
In the add-ons manager, what is the status of Lion? Enabled?
Regards.

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.
Músico (pianista) y también ayuda a usuarios con discapacidad visual en el
uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.
Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.

Musician (pianist) and also help to users with a visual disability in the use of screen readers and technology.
Certified expert in screen reader NVDA.



El mié., 21 de oct. de 2020 a la(s) 09:31, Peter Beasley (pjbeasley23@...) escribió:

What does it actually do?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: 21 October 2020 14:54
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] lion OCR addon

 

here is the link for the latest version of lion live OCR. 
https://blindieconnect.net/files/lion-latest.nvda-addon

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: control+f - The General Purpose Find Command in Windows

Quentin Christensen
 

Don't worry, we're not removing NVDA+f, or NVDA+control+f from what they currently do any time soon.

Actually, we've just made what is probably the biggest change to one of those commands we are likely to make without heavy consideration and consultation.  In NVDA 2020.3 NVDA+f does work slightly differently - it now reads the font information at the caret or system focus rather than the review cursor.  You now have to use NVDA+shift+f for the review cursor formatting information.

Quentin.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 11:38 PM Hettie <woehler.hettie@...> wrote:

Please do not take away this shortcut as it is important and essential when fonts descriptions is needed.


Hettie


On 2020/10/20 2:02 pm, John Sanfilippo wrote:
I have two wishes concerning NVDA control F: 1, That it change to just NVDA f, I never use that. 2, That they do away with having to press Enter when search not found. O, and #, that it makes a sound and wraps to the top again.



AVG logo

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: windows feature update 20h2

 

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 09:34 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
so I guess its still going about.

It will, like all previous Feature Updates, be "going about" for many months before the roll out is complete.  Heck, the roll out of 2004 was not declared complete before this one started, and it's not the first time this has happened.

Feature Update roll outs are months long, by design.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: control+f - The General Purpose Find Command in Windows

Quentin Christensen
 

There is an issue similar to this.  For anyone interested in this idea for NVDA find, who can add extra detail, please feel encouraged to comment on the issue itself: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/4637

Quentin.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 10:41 PM John Sanfilippo <johnsanfilippo@...> wrote:
Ok, leave the assigned key alone. But #2, bag the OK prompt, and #3 make a sound and wrap to top I think would greatly improve what we have.

John S



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: windows feature update 20h2

 

Well I thought I'd have to do what I did to mine but the update just
showed on my second hp system an intel i5 7200 so I guess its still
going about.

On 22/10/2020, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Enes,

Actually it's not really weird at all, but an evolution in the workings of
Windows Update.  Fully automatic updates without user intervention are now a
thing of the past unless someone keeps a version on their machine that is
actually going out of support.  Windows Update itself interrogates the
actual computer it's on to determine the hardware profile, and depending on
that hardware profile, it will or will not be added to an update cohort
where a Feature Update is offered for the user to Download and install.
There have even been instances where a Feature Update has been offered, but
the offer not taken up by the end user, and it gets retracted for a time
because some "late breaking problem" has been identified that was not known
for that hardware profile previously.

Check for Updates as a way to force update has been eliminated, too.  The
only two ways I know of to force update are using the Update Assistant or
the Win10 ISO file to do a feature update, neither of which is a good idea
in the early days of any Feature Update release.

As has been said on many occasions, by many other than myself, best practice
with regard to Feature Updates is to do an occasional check of the Windows
Update pane to see if it's been offered.  Then, and only then, and
preferably after having done a full system image update, should the Download
and install link be activated to apply the Feature Update.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn






Re: windows feature update 20h2

 

Enes,

          Actually it's not really weird at all, but an evolution in the workings of Windows Update.  Fully automatic updates without user intervention are now a thing of the past unless someone keeps a version on their machine that is actually going out of support.  Windows Update itself interrogates the actual computer it's on to determine the hardware profile, and depending on that hardware profile, it will or will not be added to an update cohort where a Feature Update is offered for the user to Download and install.  There have even been instances where a Feature Update has been offered, but the offer not taken up by the end user, and it gets retracted for a time because some "late breaking problem" has been identified that was not known for that hardware profile previously.

            Check for Updates as a way to force update has been eliminated, too.  The only two ways I know of to force update are using the Update Assistant or the Win10 ISO file to do a feature update, neither of which is a good idea in the early days of any Feature Update release.

             As has been said on many occasions, by many other than myself, best practice with regard to Feature Updates is to do an occasional check of the Windows Update pane to see if it's been offered.  Then, and only then, and preferably after having done a full system image update, should the Download and install link be activated to apply the Feature Update.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: windows feature update 20h2

enes sarıbaş
 

This is wierd. On my toshiba satallite L50A, the update is completely hidden, as if it never existed. Its a forth gen i5. Until now, I was always the first cohort to get an update since ms introduced install via check for updates.

On 10/20/2020 9:49 PM, tim wrote:
Got the same on my I5 4th gen.
My I5 8th gen still running 20.04 and both have same build numbers

On 10/20/2020 3:24 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Well interestingly the update has appeared on my 4th gen workstation which has to be at least5 years old now but not on my amd laptop.

And yet, it does appear bar java and the display drivers which are updated nothing should be stopping it.

On my workstation, the update took 5 minutes to load and all I did was change the alt tab behaviour so it opens everything normally excluding edge tabs in the alt tab list because I like it like that.

Nothing was changed, in fact the only thing that has changed is the 20h2 tag, even the build is the same.

Nothing seems to be effecting things so far and nothing major needed to be updated.

In fact bar a few app updates I hardly noticed the update curve.



On 21/10/2020 7:59 am, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
NO, it's a feature update - build 19042.572. To check if you've got Version 20H2, open Action Center and see if "tablet mode" is present on desktop systems - if it isn't, then you have 20H2 unless tablet mode is unpinned.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Matzura
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 11:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows feature update 20h2

If you're referring to build # 572, I don't know what the new features are, bas I've seen no change in behavior or programs since I installed it on three systems.


On 10/20/2020 2:28 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Just noticed its come out, not yet for my laptop, but I will wait for it.

What have users found with it so far.



On 21/10/2020 7:16 am, Don H wrote:
Just installed the latest feature update to Windows 10.  Took less
than 10 minutes to install.  I was offered it as a optional update.








.






Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

Gene
 

Perhaps. I can't think of more than perhaps three or four settings but having something discussing them might be helpful.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 8:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] web sites detecting a screen reader

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 06:20 PM, Gene wrote:
I was asking in case others knew the answers.-
I guess my central point, whether it's you asking or someone else, is that there is likely a small number of settings like this that will be asked about again and again. Having a piece of user-maintained documentation for same can prove really helpful.

I'm not trying to put this in anyone's lap specifically, but tossing the idea out there. I am maintaining something analogous in a completely different sphere, and not software related.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

 

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 06:20 PM, Gene wrote:
I was asking in case others knew the answers.
-
I guess my central point, whether it's you asking or someone else, is that there is likely a small number of settings like this that will be asked about again and again.  Having a piece of user-maintained documentation for same can prove really helpful.

I'm not trying to put this in anyone's lap specifically, but tossing the idea out there.  I am maintaining something analogous in a completely different sphere, and not software related.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Re: NVDA Settings Documentation

Quentin Christensen
 

Off the top of my head, this doesn't work in Word, because as you down arrow to move by line, the caret DOES move down a line, and so NVDA reads the next line (that behaviour is the same in focus or browse mode).  Using the Move to next line in review command (numpad 9 or NVDA+down arrow) also moves to the next actual line.


On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 8:41 AM Dave Grossoehme <dave@...> wrote:
Good |Day:  This brings a question to mind on this setting. Would that
work for a line in Word, if wrap is turned on?  Which a line of text
that continues to wrap.

Dave


On 10/19/2020 2:14 AM, Gene wrote:
> I haven't looked at the user guide a lot.  However, I found yesterday,
> regarding the line length documentation this:
> 12.1.14. Browse Mode (NVDA+control+b)
> The Browse Mode category in the NVDA Settings dialog is used to
> configure NVDA's behaviour when you read and navigate complex
> documents such as web pages. This category contains the following
> options:
> Maximum Number of Characters on One Line
> This field sets the maximum length of a line in browse mode (in
> characters).
>
> That's true but how many people would understand where it might be
> useful? I found the same feature useful in JAWS years ago becaused
> when I moved from line to line manually, the lines as displayed were
> too long to find something conveniently.  I wanted lines shorter so I
> could skim by line much faster and more efficiently.
>
> There are two things that come to mind:
> When browse mode is discussed earlier, should the section that shows
> the settings with explanation be referenced as a further information
> or see also, or for settings, see or something of the sort?  Also, is
> this section and some other parts of the user guide intended for those
> who already have an idea of how such settings might be used in general
> or for a more advanced user who may either understand the information
> or play around and see what the effect is of settings information that
> isn't clear.
>
> Manuals, in my experience are usually concise and I think that is one
> reason tutorials are so much more popular.   But the degree of
> concision may be opened to useful discussion.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message----- From: Quentin Christensen
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 4:01 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Settings Documentation
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Lots of good points here.  So firstly, from a very simplistic view -
> if there are any settings which experienced people such as yourselves
> can't get an explanation of from the User Guide, then that's
> definitely something we should address.  Please either let me know (or
> file a GitHub issue) as you find examples.
>
> Re the user guide being too thick and heavy for new users to get start
> with - that's largely because that's not who it is really aimed at. 
> For a lot of users, the Basic Training for NVDA would be the best
> place to start. There is potentially a gap for a short "quick start"
> guide, and I'd be happy to explore that further with anyone who has
> ideas on the subject.
>
> Joseph, re some sort of training for new contributors - that too is a
> great idea, and I'd be happy to work further with you on it.
>
> I've made a note to follow all of this up (since it's into the evening
> here and I'm trying to figure out book week costumes while getting the
> kids to bed).
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 10:44 AM Robert Doc Wright godfearer
> <godfearer@...> wrote:
>
> Where I need direction on what I need to study in order to be a tech
> writer for NVDA. I believe that once I understand something I can
> teach it to anyone. My stumbling block is that I have had some
> programming classes but that was twenty years ago. I taught myself
> basic web design from a book. What do I need to know to be of help
> where the users guide is concerned?
> ******
> Jesus says, follow me and I'll help you through the rough spots.
> the world says, hey come with me. My way is broad and easy. So what if
> you get crap on your shoes. You can always wash it off, can't you!
>
>
> Family times where there is fun for every ear!
> http://stream.wrighthere.net:8000/stream.mp3
>
> Or ask your A device to play Family times on tuneIn
> You can also find us on your mobile device install OoTunes and search
> for Family times
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2020 1:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Settings Documentation
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Agreed (that’s one of the reasons why I comment a lot in my add-on
> source code).
>
> One holiday wish I have (possibly a long-term wish) is to help folks
> get started on revamping the NVDA community documentation. At least
> this can include add-on user guides, but I foresee a day where the
> screen reader user guide would not escape this rewrite in hopes of
> making it more relevant for users. I would go so far as ask NVDA code
> contributors to add extensive documentation in source code itself – it
> is now possible to do it easily with help from a module called Sphinx,
> a source code based documentation generator. There are major issues to
> consider, however:
>
> Who is the target audience: thinking about this changes the game, as
> it will dictate tone, style, word usage, and organization of the
> document and supplemental materials.
> Mindset of code contributors: are we just software developers or
> technical authors? Some people would argue that developers should
> focus on programming and testing, leaving the task of documenting what
> developers wrote to technical authors, and this separation of concerns
> may foster better communication amongst team members. On the other
> hand, by forcing developers to become technical authors, they can make
> crucial decisions about the user-visible aspects of a given product a
> bit early.
> How can we show we accept diversity in terms of culture, language,
> skill level, and other factors: although the community documentation
> was written by NV Access people at first, it is increasingly written
> by people from diverse backgrounds in terms of culture, language,
> skill level, and other factors (although I did receive training on
> technical communication and software development, I’m not a native
> English speaker). This is more so for parts that are written by people
> who may have different interpretation about a UI message or concepts,
> more so if the author’s native language is not English (the reverse is
> true for translators as they need to grasp concepts written in English
> in their native languages).
>
>
>
> My responses to the above questions are:
>
> Who is the target audience: it varies. For NVDA user guide, it is
> users with differing skill levels. For add-on guides, they target end
> users. For this reason, whenever I edit the NVDA user guide or add-on
> guides, I think about what users expect and NVDA’s response. This
> changes if we’re dealing with a document meant for developers (such as
> add-on internals and such).
> Mindset of code contributors: I believe that, as much as programming
> skills is important, willingness to communicate with audiences (users,
> other contributors, industry experts, etc.) is also important. One way
> to practice both is thinking and writing to and about users, therefore
> I tend to fall into a bit of the latter category from above:
> programming is, in one way or another, writing. Python is just one of
> the more specialized languages used to communicate with another entity
> (the machine), and if one can teach a computer to do something (along
> with fixing mistakes), it would be possible to train developers to
> respect users more by writing good documentation (of course someone
> may need to look at the documentation for style and such). My
> philosophy partly stems from my experiences as a former computer
> science major at a college I attended (different from the one I’m
> about to graduate from): my first computer science professor stressed
> the importance of source code comments and documentation, and I still
> practice this lesson today, which fuels my overall frustration with
> the current state of NVDA user guide and source code documentation in
> general. I think one exercise code contributors can do before
> submitting anything to GitHub (specifically, pull; requests) is
> writing an early user facing documentation, because doing so helps you
> improve your writing skills and think carefully about the impact of
> your changes when users meet them (I sometimes find myself struggling
> for minutes to hours over UI messages and documentation for this
> reason; I know what my code will do, but I hit a roadblock when
> explaining what I’ve done to would-be users before actually writing
> code).
> How can we show we are a group of people coming from diverse
> backgrounds: I think this goal was somewhat achieved when we look at
> recent NVDA work – many new features and bug fixes included in NVDA
> 2020.3 were written by someone other than an NV Access staff member,
> from people living in different countries and speaking many languages.
> But I know that we can improve on that somehow.
>
>
>
> Another wish I have, mostly for Quentin: can we develop some sort of a
> training program for would-be contributors wishing to improve the
> overall NVDA community documentation, including the user guide? It may
> include basics on technical writing, tone and style, audience
> analysis, exercises where coding and documentation should be done
> together, and documentation production in a variety of formats
> (including online media). I think this may help us dive deeper into
> user guide issues being brought up, including the guide being “too
> thick” for newbies (in terms of understanding, lack of solid examples,
> and friendliness), especially for preferences chapter.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2020 11:56 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Settings Documentation
>
>
>
>
>
> Joseph,
>
>           While I applaud your efforts, and tutorials are invaluable,
> I wasn't even going that far.  I'm talking basic documentation, where
> each item in a panel/pane/settings group in a given pane are briefly
> documented. There are myriad NVDA settings that, if their actual
> function is not directly obvious, which is the case, for example, with
> most checkboxes, then they're a black hole.
>
>            Even I will admit that for all software it is a limited
> number of end users who refer to this sort of thing.  That being said,
> some do, and it serves as a very important basis for new developers to
> develop depth of knowledge of "what's in there and what it's for."
>
>             I was just commenting to someone for whom I've done custom
> VBA scripting for Outlook that I am eternally grateful to myself for
> having developed the habit of rigorously commenting my code, at a bare
> minimum, as even I would have no idea what some of what I've written
> actually does when looking at it much later. Complex stuff doesn't
> remain in "off the top of my head" mode (for most "mes") as time moves
> on.  That's one of the reasons that basic documentation is so important.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

Gene
 

I was asking in case others knew the answers. I searched the relevant settings areas and found nothing, the relevant areas being Document Formatting and Browse Mode Settings. I haven't chedcked Github. Perhaps I should have, I just thought these might be annoyances that might not bother others enough that an issue was filed, but someone may have done so.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 4:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] web sites detecting a screen reader

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 03:11 PM, Gene wrote:
Is the figure setting not being controlable an oversight and are there plans to have the user be able to turn off live region speech?-
Gene, I cannot answer this, other than to say if you don't have a GitHub Account for accessing the NVAccess/NVDA issues system you should consider getting one. This would be an issue, as far as I'm concerned, if there is no clear way to control it documented.

One of the big things lacking, as far as I'm concerned, in NVDA is the ability to search settings for a given word or phrase. Any software as complex as NVDA is going to have a number of settings that it's virtually impossible for any single person to remember in their entirety, or even where they are in the hierarchy. Given how software of this complexity is developed, and grows over time, certain settings may be in what seem to be very odd locations because where they now would seem to be logically placed did not even exist when they came into being. Settings searches have really become a necessity. If you were able to search settings on the word "figure" that should answer your current question, but you can't. But this is not an issue, per se, but a feature request/suggestion if we're talking a general purpose settings search.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


Re: web sites detecting a screen reader

 

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 03:11 PM, Gene wrote:
Is the figure setting not being controlable an oversight and are there plans to have the user be able to turn off live region speech?
-
Gene, I cannot answer this, other than to say if you don't have a GitHub Account for accessing the NVAccess/NVDA issues system you should consider getting one.  This would be an issue, as far as I'm concerned, if there is no clear way to control it documented.

One of the big things lacking, as far as I'm concerned, in NVDA is the ability to search settings for a given word or phrase.  Any software as complex as NVDA is going to have a number of settings that it's virtually impossible for any single person to remember in their entirety, or even where they are in the hierarchy.  Given how software of this complexity is developed, and grows over time, certain settings may be in what seem to be very odd locations because where they now would seem to be logically placed did not even exist when they came into being.  Settings searches have really become a necessity.  If you were able to search settings on the word "figure" that should answer your current question, but you can't.  But this is not an issue, per se, but a feature request/suggestion if we're talking a general purpose settings search.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 

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