1. nvda@nvda.groups.io
   Date   
locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

cecropia64
 

hi:


i just turned off the status bar and the issue is gone.   made me happy.  thanks

On 4/9/2020 12:15 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:01 PM, Gene wrote:
This is just the kind of thing you would expect to see implemented if a sighted person or persons, who know nothing about proper implementation of accessibility, add or design accessibility functions.  Just because something talks doesn't mean it is practical or properly usable.
And even if virtually all of the sighted developers actually have been trained extensively, or have long experience with, developing accessibility features there will always be the newbie who could slip.  And anyone who thinks that a piece of software as complex as Thunderbird undergoes testing of every line of code again, with human eyes and ears, at every update is deluding themselves.

On the topic on this group regarding Google Chrome Version 81, member Felix G. wrote, in part, "Broken PDF support for sighted users would never have slipped past
quality control, which pretty much informs us where we stand on the global scale of things."   And the fact is that small minorities, and blind users are a tiny, tiny, minority of users, will not be at the top of the list of concerns at all times.  And given that any software developer has many constituencies to please, focus on their primary constituency is appropriate.  When you add to that the fact that there are very, very few sighted people who have the vaguest clue regarding the actual nuts and bolts of daily use of screen readers in particular, it's entirely possible for things to slip through as the result of ignorance, not malice.  But the fact of the matter is that these days accessibility is, by and large, being designed in from the ground up, and that's a major, major change and step forward.  There will be occasional bugs that cause things to break, but here's the thing, that happens and happens to all users at some point or another.  The way to get these things addressed is to use the mechanism available for a given development team to report issues.  In the case of Thunderbird that's Bugzilla.  In the case of NVDA it's GitHub.  There are others.

I just assisted someone the other day in creating a Bugzilla account so that she could report some major accessibility issues, including this verbosity one, that showed up in the 70b3 beta of Thunderbird.  That's what has to be done.  And it's the individuals who encounter the issues who should be doing it.  And I am offering my assistance in helping anyone who wants to set up a bug reporting account for any given piece of software to do so, as well as figuring out the specific reporting process steps.  If you all don't do this then you have absolutely no right to expect anyone else will and, believe me, "someone else" won't.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 
locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

matthew dyer
 

Marry,



I just ran into this same problem.  Try this.  Go the view menu and right error to the toolbars and enter on status bar to hide it and this should saulve your problem.  Thanks.


Matthew

On 4/8/2020 2:56 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
Hi all,


I just updated Thunderbird, and all of a sudden, it is talking way too much. For instance, each time I delete a message, I hear about how that message was deleted and added to trash, or some such. There are other announcements as well, rendering the experience entirely too verbose and inefficient for getting through email. I'm using the latest nvda, and as far as I know, there haven't been changes to the mozilla apps enhancements add on which I have been using without incident until now. My t-bird version is 68.7.0; it just updated to that.


Mary
locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

Gene
 

My point isn’t that there won’t be mistakes.  My question is why this wasn’t caught by reports from blind people before the release version.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much
 
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:01 PM, Gene wrote:
This is just the kind of thing you would expect to see implemented if a sighted person or persons, who know nothing about proper implementation of accessibility, add or design accessibility functions.  Just because something talks doesn't mean it is practical or properly usable.
And even if virtually all of the sighted developers actually have been trained extensively, or have long experience with, developing accessibility features there will always be the newbie who could slip.  And anyone who thinks that a piece of software as complex as Thunderbird undergoes testing of every line of code again, with human eyes and ears, at every update is deluding themselves.

On the topic on this group regarding Google Chrome Version 81, member Felix G. wrote, in part, "Broken PDF support for sighted users would never have slipped past
quality control, which pretty much informs us where we stand on the global scale of things."   And the fact is that small minorities, and blind users are a tiny, tiny, minority of users, will not be at the top of the list of concerns at all times.  And given that any software developer has many constituencies to please, focus on their primary constituency is appropriate.  When you add to that the fact that there are very, very few sighted people who have the vaguest clue regarding the actual nuts and bolts of daily use of screen readers in particular, it's entirely possible for things to slip through as the result of ignorance, not malice.  But the fact of the matter is that these days accessibility is, by and large, being designed in from the ground up, and that's a major, major change and step forward.  There will be occasional bugs that cause things to break, but here's the thing, that happens and happens to all users at some point or another.  The way to get these things addressed is to use the mechanism available for a given development team to report issues.  In the case of Thunderbird that's Bugzilla.  In the case of NVDA it's GitHub.  There are others.

I just assisted someone the other day in creating a Bugzilla account so that she could report some major accessibility issues, including this verbosity one, that showed up in the 70b3 beta of Thunderbird.  That's what has to be done.  And it's the individuals who encounter the issues who should be doing it.  And I am offering my assistance in helping anyone who wants to set up a bug reporting account for any given piece of software to do so, as well as figuring out the specific reporting process steps.  If you all don't do this then you have absolutely no right to expect anyone else will and, believe me, "someone else" won't.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 
Re: google chrome version 81

mohammad suliman
 

Hello all,
I also experience the mentioned issue. I have reported it on Chromium bug tracker:


People are welcomed to star it so hopefully it gets more attention.
Thanks!



On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 at 17:42 Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
Just as an FYI, Chrome updated to, Version 81.0.4044.92 (Official Build) (64-bit), on my machine this morning when I went to check the current version.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 
Re: WeatherPlus, adding new cities

Adriano Barbieri
 

Hi Vincent,


From what I understand, it seems that in the passage you didn't import the cities.
you could export a copy and retrieve it as needed, but if you didn't,have then you have lost the cities.

Regards
Adriano


Il 04/04/2020 12:13, Vincent Le Goff ha scritto:

Hi everyone,


I know the question has been asked many times on this list and I'm sorry to add yet a new one, but I can't find the answer anywhere.


I'm using the last version of WeatherPlus with the stable version of NVDA and I don't find how to add new cities, or even change my current city.  Yes, I have moved, so I would appreciate to retrieve up-to-date information about the weather.  When I select "manage temporary cities" it seems I can only select in a list... with only one city (the current selection).  No button to add or remove.  In the "manage cities" settings, there's a simple text field with, again, only one line.  No button to add a new city or search for one.  There was a documentation in this menu before but it seems it has vanished.  Am I missing something?


Thanks in advance,


Vincent




locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

Brian Vogel
 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
How does one revert to an earlier version of Thunderbird?
Why on earth do that when it has already been reported here that simply turning off the Status Bar virtually (perhaps completely) eliminates the issue?

All it takes to try that out is hitting ALT+V, navigating to the Toolbars item (which you should be on at the very top to begin with), hitting enter to open it, arrowing down to the toggle/checkbox for the Status Bar item, and unchecking/toggling it off.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 
locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

Brian Vogel
 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:01 PM, Gene wrote:
This is just the kind of thing you would expect to see implemented if a sighted person or persons, who know nothing about proper implementation of accessibility, add or design accessibility functions.  Just because something talks doesn't mean it is practical or properly usable.
And even if virtually all of the sighted developers actually have been trained extensively, or have long experience with, developing accessibility features there will always be the newbie who could slip.  And anyone who thinks that a piece of software as complex as Thunderbird undergoes testing of every line of code again, with human eyes and ears, at every update is deluding themselves.

On the topic on this group regarding Google Chrome Version 81, member Felix G. wrote, in part, "Broken PDF support for sighted users would never have slipped past
quality control, which pretty much informs us where we stand on the global scale of things."   And the fact is that small minorities, and blind users are a tiny, tiny, minority of users, will not be at the top of the list of concerns at all times.  And given that any software developer has many constituencies to please, focus on their primary constituency is appropriate.  When you add to that the fact that there are very, very few sighted people who have the vaguest clue regarding the actual nuts and bolts of daily use of screen readers in particular, it's entirely possible for things to slip through as the result of ignorance, not malice.  But the fact of the matter is that these days accessibility is, by and large, being designed in from the ground up, and that's a major, major change and step forward.  There will be occasional bugs that cause things to break, but here's the thing, that happens and happens to all users at some point or another.  The way to get these things addressed is to use the mechanism available for a given development team to report issues.  In the case of Thunderbird that's Bugzilla.  In the case of NVDA it's GitHub.  There are others.

I just assisted someone the other day in creating a Bugzilla account so that she could report some major accessibility issues, including this verbosity one, that showed up in the 70b3 beta of Thunderbird.  That's what has to be done.  And it's the individuals who encounter the issues who should be doing it.  And I am offering my assistance in helping anyone who wants to set up a bug reporting account for any given piece of software to do so, as well as figuring out the specific reporting process steps.  If you all don't do this then you have absolutely no right to expect anyone else will and, believe me, "someone else" won't.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 
locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

Howard Traxler
 

How does one revert to an earlier version of Thunderbird?  Thanks.

On 4/9/2020 11:01 AM, Gene wrote:
This problem raises serious questions about how accessibility is implemented as Thunderbird is developed.
This is just the kind of thing you would expect to see implemented if a sighted person or persons, who know nothing about proper implementation of accessibility, add or design accessibility functions.  Just because something talks doesn't mean it is practical or properly usable.
How did such a function get past beta testing or even alpha testing?  Unless Thunderbird changes how it evaluates accessibility changes or new implementations, there will be a constant threat of future versions presenting new and completely unnecessary accessibility problems.  I would suggest those who use the program contact the developers about this problem.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, April 09, 2020 9:38 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much
My guess is that the good folks at Thunderbird had gotten complaints that it was impossible to know, for instance, whether all new e-mail had completed downloading when you fired up T-bird at the start of the day, and decided to expose a lot more information presented on the status bar to the screen reader.

What they probably hadn't counted on is the fact that a screen reader will detect changes and read them as they're detected, and that's really, really irritating if you're reading your e-mail messages and status stuff just barges in while doing so.

If they have sighted folks doing testing for these new functions, it wouldn't surprise me if they just sat there when the status bar was really active watching to see that it was being reported correctly, never moving along like one normally would into reading messages.  And I can get that, as even though I have the status bar displayed, I virtually never look at it at all.  The occasional glance occurs, but I wouldn't really miss it at all if it weren't there by default.

It's well-nigh impossible for most of us who see to have any real idea of exactly how screen reader users typically approach using various pieces of software (and I include myself, though I do have at least some idea at this point). And there will never be enough in-house actual screen reader users doing accessibility testing.  That's one of the reasons I push so hard to get folks who encounter accessibility issues to file bug/issue/trouble reports with the companies that produce the software.  You all are able to give a far more accurate description of what the software is doing that you don't want with the screen reader as well as what the preferred behavior would be.  Also, given your years of end-user experience, you're often in a far better position to know whether the issue you're having is with the screen reader or due to a change in the software you're using the screen reader to access, and that's often the key to getting to the root of the problem as well as the fix.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

*Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.*

       ~ Madonna
locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

Gene
 

This problem raises serious questions about how accessibility is implemented as Thunderbird is developed. 
 
This is just the kind of thing you would expect to see implemented if a sighted person or persons, who know nothing about proper implementation of accessibility, add or design accessibility functions.  Just because something talks doesn't mean it is practical or properly usable. 
 
How did such a function get past beta testing or even alpha testing?  Unless Thunderbird changes how it evaluates accessibility changes or new implementations, there will be a constant threat of future versions presenting new and completely unnecessary accessibility problems.  I would suggest those who use the program contact the developers about this problem.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much
 
My guess is that the good folks at Thunderbird had gotten complaints that it was impossible to know, for instance, whether all new e-mail had completed downloading when you fired up T-bird at the start of the day, and decided to expose a lot more information presented on the status bar to the screen reader.

What they probably hadn't counted on is the fact that a screen reader will detect changes and read them as they're detected, and that's really, really irritating if you're reading your e-mail messages and status stuff just barges in while doing so.

If they have sighted folks doing testing for these new functions, it wouldn't surprise me if they just sat there when the status bar was really active watching to see that it was being reported correctly, never moving along like one normally would into reading messages.  And I can get that, as even though I have the status bar displayed, I virtually never look at it at all.  The occasional glance occurs, but I wouldn't really miss it at all if it weren't there by default.

It's well-nigh impossible for most of us who see to have any real idea of exactly how screen reader users typically approach using various pieces of software (and I include myself, though I do have at least some idea at this point).  And there will never be enough in-house actual screen reader users doing accessibility testing.  That's one of the reasons I push so hard to get folks who encounter accessibility issues to file bug/issue/trouble reports with the companies that produce the software.  You all are able to give a far more accurate description of what the software is doing that you don't want with the screen reader as well as what the preferred behavior would be.  Also, given your years of end-user experience, you're often in a far better position to know whether the issue you're having is with the screen reader or due to a change in the software you're using the screen reader to access, and that's often the key to getting to the root of the problem as well as the fix.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 
Re: How can I get the date from a Braille display?

David Griffith
 

I cannot completely vouch for this working with a braille display as I am only just getting to grips with this myself but using a qwerty keyboards windows B and arrowing until focus is on the clock will announce not just the time but the date with speech in NVDA.

I hope that you get the same result with a braille display.

David Griffith

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Daniel Gartmann
Sent: 09 April 2020 15:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] How can I get the date from a Braille display?

 

 

Hi all,

 

On a laptop keyboard, I am able to get the date by pressing NVDA F12 twice quickly.

 

On my Freedom Scientific Focus40 Blue, I can’t seem to do two presses quickly of NVDA+F12. The second press of F12 just sends an F12 through and I get the Save As dialog.

 

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

Daniel

 
How can I get the date from a Braille display?

Daniel Gartmann
 

 

Hi all,

 

On a laptop keyboard, I am able to get the date by pressing NVDA F12 twice quickly.

 

On my Freedom Scientific Focus40 Blue, I can’t seem to do two presses quickly of NVDA+F12. The second press of F12 just sends an F12 through and I get the Save As dialog.

 

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

Daniel

 
Re: google chrome version 81

Brian Vogel
 

Just as an FYI, Chrome updated to, Version 81.0.4044.92 (Official Build) (64-bit), on my machine this morning when I went to check the current version.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 
locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

Brian Vogel
 

My guess is that the good folks at Thunderbird had gotten complaints that it was impossible to know, for instance, whether all new e-mail had completed downloading when you fired up T-bird at the start of the day, and decided to expose a lot more information presented on the status bar to the screen reader.

What they probably hadn't counted on is the fact that a screen reader will detect changes and read them as they're detected, and that's really, really irritating if you're reading your e-mail messages and status stuff just barges in while doing so.

If they have sighted folks doing testing for these new functions, it wouldn't surprise me if they just sat there when the status bar was really active watching to see that it was being reported correctly, never moving along like one normally would into reading messages.  And I can get that, as even though I have the status bar displayed, I virtually never look at it at all.  The occasional glance occurs, but I wouldn't really miss it at all if it weren't there by default.

It's well-nigh impossible for most of us who see to have any real idea of exactly how screen reader users typically approach using various pieces of software (and I include myself, though I do have at least some idea at this point).  And there will never be enough in-house actual screen reader users doing accessibility testing.  That's one of the reasons I push so hard to get folks who encounter accessibility issues to file bug/issue/trouble reports with the companies that produce the software.  You all are able to give a far more accurate description of what the software is doing that you don't want with the screen reader as well as what the preferred behavior would be.  Also, given your years of end-user experience, you're often in a far better position to know whether the issue you're having is with the screen reader or due to a change in the software you're using the screen reader to access, and that's often the key to getting to the root of the problem as well as the fix.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 
locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

Roger Stewart
 

Yes, turning off the status bar fixed it completely!
Thanks much!
Roger

On 4/8/2020 5:34 PM, David Csercsics wrote:
I got the 68.7 update today and noticed it was chatty. It was reading the status bar, so I disabled that, and it's less verbose. You can disable the status bar from view -> toolbars.




.
locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

matthew dyer
 

Hi,


Getting the same thing.  Hope they can find a fix for this. Thanks.


Matthew

On 4/8/2020 5:44 PM, Roger Stewart wrote:
I just upgraded Thunderbird to the latest version.  I'm getting a lot of unwanted feedback telling me every time I delete a message how many messages have been moved to trash and how many unread messages are in the inbox.  I hope a fix can be found to turn this off.  Maybe someone might find it useful, and if this is so, then a toggle to turn it on or off would be good.


Roger
Re: google chrome version 81

Brian Vogel
 

Well, I've hated the whole trend toward browsers opening PDF files inside themselves, as I always prefer to use a dedicated PDF reader when dealing with PDFs.  Whether you use Adobe Reader DC or some other reader, you can follow these instructions to make Chrome not open PDFs itself, but hand them off to the PDF reader you have set in Windows to handle PDF files.


Making the Google Chrome Browser Open PDF Files in Your Chosen PDF Reader

1.       Make sure that your chosen PDF Reader is already installed on your computer and that is has been set as the default app for PDF files.

2.       Activate the Chrome Menu Button, then choose Settings.  ALT+F,S

3.      Navigate to the Privacy and Security Pane, then to the Site Settings option in that pane, and activate its button.

4.      In the Site Settings Options list, navigate down to the PDF Documents option, and activate its button.

5.      In the PDF Documents dialog, throw the toggle for Download PDF files instead of automatically opening them in Chrome to ON.

6.      Close Settings.

After having done this, when a link related to a PDF file is activated, the file will download in the background and open in your chosen PDF reader instead of Chrome.  For small PDF files this occurs very quickly, but for larger ones it can take a few moments for the download to complete before the file opens.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 
Re: google chrome version 81

Felix G.
 

I just verified it. They really broke PDF support!
Broken PDF support for sighted users would never have slipped past
quality control, which pretty much informs us where we stand on the
global scale of things.
However, since accessibility-related bugs were fixed in this update,
let's not be overly pessimistic and just call it a mixed bag.
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 9. Apr. 2020 um 11:20 Uhr schrieb Dejan Ristic <r.dejan83@gmail.com>:


Hi,


As far as I can see, Chrome has changed when we talk about handling PDF
documents.


Another thing I observe is that the options such as: download, print,
fit to page, etc, are not possible to use except when NVDA is switched
to the focus mode. As for the browse mode in a PDF document, there's
nothing one can do in Chrome. That's sad, but it's true.


Try switching to the Opera browser for the time being, because we are
all aware of the fact that the very technologies we engage in our use
have increasingly been changing. That'll be so till the last day on this
earth. Let's try to accept what is before us. Next versions might bring
us what we had in the last one and those preceeding it.


Dejan

On 09/04/2020 01:07, Jason White via groups.io wrote:
If I open a PDF file in Chrome 81, NVDA describes it as an "embedded object", then fails to read it. JAWS does the same, so I assume something changed in Chrome. On the other hand, VoiceOver for Mac with Chrome 81 reads PDF documents as well as ever.

Is this a change that NVDA and other screen readers will need to adapt to, or is it a Chrome bug? Can others reproduce it? Note that I'm not using an external PDF reader; this is entirely with the PDF processor included in Chrome. I can of course use Adobe Reader dC instead, although Chrome was until recently giving me better results on a range of PDF files.

On 4/8/20, 14:27, "Shaun Everiss" <nvda@nvda.groups.io on behalf of sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:

well thats good to know.



On 8/04/2020 9:59 pm, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:
> Google Chrome 81 was released today...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. März 2020 01:09
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] google chrome version 81
>
> A lot of stuff is delayed.
>
> Bar skype and a few codec updates nothing has been released due to this damn virus.
>
> Usually by now I have at least a couple releases of my display drivers for the month but nothing.
>
>
>
> On 19/03/2020 12:22 pm, Don H wrote:
>> Has the release of google chrome version 81 been delayed?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .








.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: another thunderbird issue with focus loss this time

Shaun Everiss
 

I do have simple html, but yeah, I may have to write to the devs about these messages.

I do have remote content back on again, but all these status alerts are getting in the way.



On 9/04/2020 9:42 pm, Gene wrote:
If you don’t want to turn it off, you are taking a needless and significant security risk.  You may be tracked, as you say, but not by the spammers.  They can’t put bugs in your program if you have this setting off and remote content may contain malware.  You may be skeptical of what I say.  Perhaps others will confirm it.  There is a reason this setting is off by default in any e-mail program worth its salt. 
 
Also, if there is this kind of oververbosity, then try using simple HTML, not just HTML as the setting for reading messages.  If the program is designed properly, you shouldn’t get that notice then. If you still do, it would be a very good idea for you and others who use the program to write to the developers and tell them that these sorts of messages, though they may be very easy for sighted people to ignore, aren’t for blind people and represent a major impediment and annoyance and are very bad implementation of accessibility not to be able to turn them off. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] another thunderbird issue with focus loss this time
 

I was able to turn off the junk filter.

My issue with remote content is that on lagit mail I have like newsletters and my descussion groups, almost every message has remote content or is in html.

Every html message thunderbird says, this message has remote content and may be unsafe.

As for spam, google's spam filter strips most of it out.

And before I do  my first mailcheck of the day I do the same check in google webmail.

At the end of my daily sessions I run ccleaner that I have customised to clear my junk and cookie data.

Thunderbirds filters are overzellous and have been that way ever since I have used thunderbird 52x and below.

In fact I started thunderbird at version 20 and it was already overzellous then.

As for tracking, just about every site tracks you anyway.

In fact by reading this lagit message I am being tracked now.

Tracking aint always bad, everyone does it.

I don't click links in messages or read files or open attachments from unknown users and I don't have view pain up so I am quite safe I think.

At any rate the last spam message I got in my inbox with google was at least a year ago and hardly any of them come in.

And it is clear if one of those is spam, reading em aint the issue as such, its all the other stuff.

 

 

On 9/04/2020 8:17 pm, Gene wrote:
It is a dangerous security breach to allow remote content.  You will allow bugs that can track you to be installed if you ever open a spam message by mistake, a lot of such messages have tracking bugs.  You will allow images and other content to run that may have malware.  Do  not do this. 
 
If you don’t know what the effects of lowering such settings are, don’t do it.  Ask here or look up information, but don’t just lower such settings without knowing what they do.  Go back to an earlier version of the program or Try to solve the problem in other ways.  In this case, going back involves creating a new profile.  I don’t know what is involved or how difficult it is.  The work and inconvenience may be more than the problem you are trying to solve.  I don’t know.  I’ll let others discuss that, but change the external content setting bacdk to what it was, not to allow it.  Perhaps setting the program not to use the spam filter or to not send anything to the spam folder might solve the problem if it is the junk diallog you are trying to eliminate.  I don’t know if there are such settings, but checck thoroughly.
 
I have said in the past that you shouldn’t just let the program update any time it feels like doing so.  Maybe now, people will start to listen.  Set the program not to update and don’t do so until some time goes by so you know if you see problems and complaints reported by others who have updated.  You would have saved yourself a lot of problems by doing this. 
 
There may be programs where it is important to let the program update.  A browser may be one.  An e-mail ;program isn’t such a program.  If you update now or a week from now, won’t matter.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] another thunderbird issue with focus loss this time
 
I noticed this to, luckily I have made it so that thunderbirg allows
remote content and this seems to have so far made things work.
Thunderbird spam and junk filters are a joke, I don't know why there
is not a way to rely on something like google's spam mail and turn off
its own or just use an external source, maybe there is I have just
never investigated this.
However google has a really good spam filter and usually gets it right.


On 09/04/2020, Mary Otten mailto:maryotten@... wrote:
> There is another issue that has cropped up since the update today. If
> you arrow in your message list and hit a message that t-bird thinks
> might be junk, some sort of box comes up informing you of that fact and
> offering choices, one of which is a button labeled "not junk". Press
> space on that, and what I expect to happen would be that I'd be put back
> in my messages list. But what seems to happen is that I'm some how stuck
> in the first part of the message that t-bird thought might be junk. I
> can't get out of that. The only thing I can do is close the app and
> re-open. What a waste of time! I've never seen this dialogue before
> about what t-bird thinks is junk, and I don't want to see it. If I think
> it is junk, I'll act accordingly, and  don't need an app interfering.
> How can I get rid of that?
>
>
> \Mary
>
>
>
>
>
Re: another thunderbird issue with focus loss this time

Gene
 

If you don’t want to turn it off, you are taking a needless and significant security risk.  You may be tracked, as you say, but not by the spammers.  They can’t put bugs in your program if you have this setting off and remote content may contain malware.  You may be skeptical of what I say.  Perhaps others will confirm it.  There is a reason this setting is off by default in any e-mail program worth its salt. 
 
Also, if there is this kind of oververbosity, then try using simple HTML, not just HTML as the setting for reading messages.  If the program is designed properly, you shouldn’t get that notice then. If you still do, it would be a very good idea for you and others who use the program to write to the developers and tell them that these sorts of messages, though they may be very easy for sighted people to ignore, aren’t for blind people and represent a major impediment and annoyance and are very bad implementation of accessibility not to be able to turn them off. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] another thunderbird issue with focus loss this time
 

I was able to turn off the junk filter.

My issue with remote content is that on lagit mail I have like newsletters and my descussion groups, almost every message has remote content or is in html.

Every html message thunderbird says, this message has remote content and may be unsafe.

As for spam, google's spam filter strips most of it out.

And before I do  my first mailcheck of the day I do the same check in google webmail.

At the end of my daily sessions I run ccleaner that I have customised to clear my junk and cookie data.

Thunderbirds filters are overzellous and have been that way ever since I have used thunderbird 52x and below.

In fact I started thunderbird at version 20 and it was already overzellous then.

As for tracking, just about every site tracks you anyway.

In fact by reading this lagit message I am being tracked now.

Tracking aint always bad, everyone does it.

I don't click links in messages or read files or open attachments from unknown users and I don't have view pain up so I am quite safe I think.

At any rate the last spam message I got in my inbox with google was at least a year ago and hardly any of them come in.

And it is clear if one of those is spam, reading em aint the issue as such, its all the other stuff.

 

 

On 9/04/2020 8:17 pm, Gene wrote:
It is a dangerous security breach to allow remote content.  You will allow bugs that can track you to be installed if you ever open a spam message by mistake, a lot of such messages have tracking bugs.  You will allow images and other content to run that may have malware.  Do  not do this. 
 
If you don’t know what the effects of lowering such settings are, don’t do it.  Ask here or look up information, but don’t just lower such settings without knowing what they do.  Go back to an earlier version of the program or Try to solve the problem in other ways.  In this case, going back involves creating a new profile.  I don’t know what is involved or how difficult it is.  The work and inconvenience may be more than the problem you are trying to solve.  I don’t know.  I’ll let others discuss that, but change the external content setting bacdk to what it was, not to allow it.  Perhaps setting the program not to use the spam filter or to not send anything to the spam folder might solve the problem if it is the junk diallog you are trying to eliminate.  I don’t know if there are such settings, but checck thoroughly.
 
I have said in the past that you shouldn’t just let the program update any time it feels like doing so.  Maybe now, people will start to listen.  Set the program not to update and don’t do so until some time goes by so you know if you see problems and complaints reported by others who have updated.  You would have saved yourself a lot of problems by doing this. 
 
There may be programs where it is important to let the program update.  A browser may be one.  An e-mail ;program isn’t such a program.  If you update now or a week from now, won’t matter.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] another thunderbird issue with focus loss this time
 
I noticed this to, luckily I have made it so that thunderbirg allows
remote content and this seems to have so far made things work.
Thunderbird spam and junk filters are a joke, I don't know why there
is not a way to rely on something like google's spam mail and turn off
its own or just use an external source, maybe there is I have just
never investigated this.
However google has a really good spam filter and usually gets it right.


On 09/04/2020, Mary Otten mailto:maryotten@... wrote:
> There is another issue that has cropped up since the update today. If
> you arrow in your message list and hit a message that t-bird thinks
> might be junk, some sort of box comes up informing you of that fact and
> offering choices, one of which is a button labeled "not junk". Press
> space on that, and what I expect to happen would be that I'd be put back
> in my messages list. But what seems to happen is that I'm some how stuck
> in the first part of the message that t-bird thought might be junk. I
> can't get out of that. The only thing I can do is close the app and
> re-open. What a waste of time! I've never seen this dialogue before
> about what t-bird thinks is junk, and I don't want to see it. If I think
> it is junk, I'll act accordingly, and  don't need an app interfering.
> How can I get rid of that?
>
>
> \Mary
>
>
>
>
>
Re: google chrome version 81

Dejan Ristic
 

Hi,


As far as I can see, Chrome has changed when we talk about handling PDF documents.


Another thing I observe is that the options such as: download, print, fit to page, etc, are not possible to use except when NVDA is switched to the focus mode. As for the browse mode in a PDF document, there's nothing one can do in Chrome. That's sad, but it's true.


Try switching to the Opera browser for the time being, because we are all aware of the fact that the very technologies we engage in our use have increasingly been changing. That'll be so till the last day on this earth. Let's try to accept what is before us. Next versions might bring us what we had in the last one and those preceeding it.


Dejan

On 09/04/2020 01:07, Jason White via groups.io wrote:
If I open a PDF file in Chrome 81, NVDA describes it as an "embedded object", then fails to read it. JAWS does the same, so I assume something changed in Chrome. On the other hand, VoiceOver for Mac with Chrome 81 reads PDF documents as well as ever.

Is this a change that NVDA and other screen readers will need to adapt to, or is it a Chrome bug? Can others reproduce it? Note that I'm not using an external PDF reader; this is entirely with the PDF processor included in Chrome. I can of course use Adobe Reader dC instead, although Chrome was until recently giving me better results on a range of PDF files.

On 4/8/20, 14:27, "Shaun Everiss" <nvda@nvda.groups.io on behalf of sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:

well thats good to know.



On 8/04/2020 9:59 pm, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:
> Google Chrome 81 was released today...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
> Sent: Donnerstag, 19. März 2020 01:09
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] google chrome version 81
>
> A lot of stuff is delayed.
>
> Bar skype and a few codec updates nothing has been released due to this damn virus.
>
> Usually by now I have at least a couple releases of my display drivers for the month but nothing.
>
>
>
> On 19/03/2020 12:22 pm, Don H wrote:
>> Has the release of google chrome version 81 been delayed?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .







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