Date   

Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Daniel Damacena
 

A week ago I was teaching a class of 50 people about object navigation. The first thing that I did was to show one usage example. It's a really abstract concept and nothing more efficient in learning than a concrete example, right?

I showed how to verify how many time was played in VLC, a music/video player. It's not possible to check this information with the normal cursor, better saying, with arrows and tab.

Em 09/08/2020 16:00, Brian Vogel escreveu:

Jackie (and many others, since I last posted),

Thank you very much for concrete examples of where, and how, you are using Object Navigation.  It's so much easier to formulate an educated guess of where it might be helpful/appropriate when you encounter a situation if you've seen other situations where it was.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: NVDA and MathML content, plus Hi from Jay at AC

 

Given that Math ML is very much purpose driven, designed to be read much more "naturally" in context, and is well supported that's likely your best option.

Also, if that's what was requested, and has been supplied, it's in your (and your student's) best interest to get a handle on it.  

If you didn't read the topic, Speech Dictionaries: Changing How Superscripted Text Is Read ,
yesterday take a look at it, too.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: NVDA and MathML content, plus Hi from Jay at AC

Jason Timms
 

What would you suggest for a Math textbook?
I have not actually read Math ML in word but it is what the student requested adn the service provider sent us. Just learning more about Math ML and screen readers.
Would some type of HTML version of a Math text book work better?

Jay


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sean via groups.io <s.tolstoyevski@...>
Sent: August 4, 2020 3:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and MathML content, plus Hi from Jay at AC
 

AC ITS Caution: This email originated from an external sender. Be careful of phishing attacks.

Security Tip of the Month: Please protect your workspace while working remotely. Do not leave sensitive information on your computer or desk unattended. It can lead to data leakages, unintentional disclosure, and a cybersecurity breach.



I did not know that MathML can be read in a format such as Word or PDF.

If I am going to write math formulas, I use matjax.
When I move the cursor on  the formula, I press NVDA+ALT+M. This creates a virtual cursor  for me to study math content.

And I use Chrome.

On 04/08/2020 19:04, Jason Timms wrote:

Hi

My name is Jay Timms,

Wanted to say hi before blasting some questions to the group. Go gentle I am new here.

I am looking for advice on MathML and NVDA. I am working with a student who needs to access Math.

I have material encoded in MathML, have connected to try to load MathPlayer on his computer. He has the latest version of NVDA and Windows 10. I have reinstalled his Office to ensure it is 32 bit.

His material is in MS Word and has been encoded by a Professional service provider known for their ability to encode in MathML.

We can’t seem to get NVDA to speak the content in the book?

Any thoughts?

Also, I have not worked with someone using MathML before, are there other software solutions or format choices that may work better. The student is new to NVDA and MathML so switching file format is not likely an issue as we are starting from the beginning anyway?

Thanks,,

Jay @ AC

--

Sean

👨‍🦯 I’m programmer. I coding often Python, sometimes Go and rarely C++.


Re: Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

Amir
 

Luke, thanks for the Registry suggestion. I just tried it but to no avail.
However, the more I test Edge Chromium with NVDA, the more I come to the conclusion that Google Chrome is a better option. For instance, with the groups.io website if you want to reply to a message via the web interface (like what I'm doing right now), NVDA becomes quite sluggish on the Rich Text area, responding quite slowly to presses of Left, Right, Home, End, and so forth in MS Edge Chromium 84. But with Google Chrome 84 everything works as expected and working with such editors is a breeze. Also add it to the fact that NVDA's reporting of misspelled words, via the buzz, is broken on MS Edge Chromium whereas it works with Google Chrome like a charm. Guess I'm switching back to Google Chrome after that stint with Edge.

Best,
Amir


Re: Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

Amir
 

Control+L makes no difference. That is, if ALT+D works, Control+L also works. But if ALT+D fails, Control+l will fail, too.

Best,
Amir


Re: Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

Greg Wocher
 

Hello,
Try using Control Plus L to move to the address bar. It is what I use and it works every time. 

Greg Wocher


On Aug 10, 2020, at 5:52 AM, Amir <mobilespace08@...> wrote:

Hi Richard,
 
Thanks for your reply.
It's quite strange because I'm not moved to the App Bar/Address Bar upon pressing Control+T quite often. Even if I press Control+T, attempting to force the cursor to move to the App Bar with ALT+D fails quite often, and the cursor will remain on an HTML area belonging to the new tab page. I have none of these issues in Google Chrome, and wish Edge would allow us to use a blank page for its new tabs.
As for Favorites, I don't have Dropbox installed as I don't use it. The equivalent of the Bookmarks submenu in Google Chrome is Favorites in Edge, accessible via ALT+F+O followed by Enter, but it doesn't allow first-letter navigation for some of the letters as they activate some functions -- like A for Add this page to Favorites.
 
Best,
Amir


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Gene
 

That's a good point. I consider it a bug in terms of implementing accessibility and/or use from the keyboard. People may want to report it. The combo box should do nothing when it is opened and when you move.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 5:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

While Gene's example is a perfect use case for object nav, personally I would
consider this a bug, either in NVDA or in Firefox. Posted.
Https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11479

On Sun, 9 Aug 2020, Gene wrote:

Today, I wanted to change the setting in Firefox about how it would work with history. I wanted to use the combo box to have it use custom settings. But every time I would change the setting, even after opening the combo box, a dialog would come up telling me I would have to restart the program for the setting to take effect. I used object navigation, after opening the combo box with alt down arrow, to see the options without triggering the dialog and I selected the one I wanted by working with the object. I don't remember if I used the mouse option or the perform default action option. Screen review was useless. I wouldn't have been able to work with the combo box without object navigation.


Re: Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

Gene
 

What happens if you use control l, the other way to get to the address bar in Chrome? The results may be the same but since Chrome provides two different commands, try the other one.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Amir
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 4:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?


Hi Richard,

Thanks for your reply.
It's quite strange because I'm not moved to the App Bar/Address Bar upon pressing Control+T quite often. Even if I press Control+T, attempting to force the cursor to move to the App Bar with ALT+D fails quite often, and the cursor will remain on an HTML area belonging to the new tab page. I have none of these issues in Google Chrome, and wish Edge would allow us to use a blank page for its new tabs.
As for Favorites, I don't have Dropbox installed as I don't use it. The equivalent of the Bookmarks submenu in Google Chrome is Favorites in Edge, accessible via ALT+F+O followed by Enter, but it doesn't allow first-letter navigation for some of the letters as they activate some functions -- like A for Add this page to Favorites.

Best,
Amir


Re: Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

Luke Davis
 

Amir, i don't use Edge enough to have noticed this. However have you tried running the Com Registration Fixing Tool in NVDA's Tools menu? There is a slight chance it might normalize some of this behavior.

Then again, it could be an Edge bug that has no connection to NVDA, but running the Com Reg Fixing Tool won't hurt anything.

Luke

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020, Amir wrote:

It's quite strange because I'm not moved to the App Bar/Address Bar upon pressing Control+T quite often. Even if I press Control+T, attempting to force the
cursor to move to the App Bar with ALT+D fails quite often, and the cursor will remain on an HTML area belonging to the new tab page. I have none of these
issues in Google Chrome, and wish Edge would allow us to use a blank page for its new tabs.


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Luke Davis
 

While Gene's example is a perfect use case for object nav, personally I would consider this a bug, either in NVDA or in Firefox. Posted. Https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11479

On Sun, 9 Aug 2020, Gene wrote:

Today, I wanted to change the setting in Firefox about how it would work with history. I wanted to use the combo box to have it use custom settings. But every time I would change the setting, even after opening the combo box, a dialog would come up telling me I would have to restart the program for the setting to take effect. I used object navigation, after opening the combo box with alt down arrow, to see the options without triggering the dialog and I selected the one I wanted by working with the object. I don't remember if I used the mouse option or the perform default action option. Screen review was useless. I wouldn't have been able to work with the combo box without object navigation.


Re: Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

Amir
 

Hi Richard,
 
Thanks for your reply.
It's quite strange because I'm not moved to the App Bar/Address Bar upon pressing Control+T quite often. Even if I press Control+T, attempting to force the cursor to move to the App Bar with ALT+D fails quite often, and the cursor will remain on an HTML area belonging to the new tab page. I have none of these issues in Google Chrome, and wish Edge would allow us to use a blank page for its new tabs.
As for Favorites, I don't have Dropbox installed as I don't use it. The equivalent of the Bookmarks submenu in Google Chrome is Favorites in Edge, accessible via ALT+F+O followed by Enter, but it doesn't allow first-letter navigation for some of the letters as they activate some functions -- like A for Add this page to Favorites.
 
Best,
Amir


Re: Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

Richard Bartholomew
 

Hi, Amir

 

To answer a couple of your points…yes, I do go straight to the app bar if I press either Ctrl+T or Alt+D in Edge. 

 

As far as favourites are concerned, I’m afraid I can’t directly answer that since I use a different approach to favourites.  I save all my favourites as shortcuts in a Dropbox folder which means that I have access to them no matter which browser or platform I’m using provided, of course, the machine or phone has Dropbox installed on it.

 

Cheers

Richard Bartholomew

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Amir
Sent: 10 August 2020 06:46
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

 

And to add to that, I use, or rather used, Google Chrome in combination with AdGuard for Windows which is considered by many as the best champion of privacy and user protection.

So, folks, if possible please provide solutions or work-arounds for the Edge/NVDA duo? Do you always get the Address Bar as you press Control+T in Edge? How about a blank, non-intrusive new tab? And how do you interact with Favorites in Edge efficiently?

 

Best,

Amir


Re: Honey - Browser Extension that finds Promo Codes on Websites

Fawaz Abdul rahman
 

I use it and it works fine, however, if you clicked on the coupon  it will take you to  another page where you need sighted help to  read the code itself.

The information usually top of the page, will tell you if there are coupons or lower prices on other stores.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 7:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] honey

 

I haven't tried it, but it sounds like it might be similar to things like Grammarly in that it puts a visual overlay over a page which works for a sighted person, but doesn't interact with screen readers.  It is worth contacting the people who make Honey if you haven't already to ask about their accessibility testing.

 

Quentin.

 

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:24 AM Don H <lmddh50@...> wrote:

There is a extension for browsers called homey that automatically
searches for promo codes on certain web sites.  After installing the
extension to Google Chrome and going to amazon Honey puts up some info
on the web page that it seems that NVDA can't get to. Anyone using Honey
with NVDA with any success?  Talking about using it on a Win 10 system
with latest version of Google Chrome and NVDA 2020.2.





 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 


Re: Honey - Browser Extension that finds Promo Codes on Websites

mcLeod stinnett
 

--
from mack I installed it with no success. inclined to believe it's strictly visual.


Re: Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

Amir
 

And to add to that, I use, or rather used, Google Chrome in combination with AdGuard for Windows which is considered by many as the best champion of privacy and user protection.
So, folks, if possible please provide solutions or work-arounds for the Edge/NVDA duo? Do you always get the Address Bar as you press Control+T in Edge? How about a blank, non-intrusive new tab? And how do you interact with Favorites in Edge efficiently?
 
Best,
Amir


Re: Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

Gene
 

I don't think it is valid to make a recommendation based on your experience with Chrome's actual use, before you try Chrome again with the proper help for what you don't understand. Your recommendation flies in the face of a great many blind peoples' experience.

It is true that Firefox is better about privacy and so from that standpoint, a recommendation based only on that might be justified but now, with the Brave browser, Brave might be better in terms of privacy. But at this point, not in terms of the actual user experience of a lot of blind users itself. As I said, Brave may be even more private than Firefox, unless you use Firefox with a good ad blocker.

The whole point of Brave is to both stop targeted advertising and pay web pages with Brave's own advertising, which is not targeted. They will give web sites money if you see Brave ads on a web site because they accept that advertising is essential for web sites to make money. But they reject the practice of targeted ads and all the data gathering done when you do things on line.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Farquharson
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 12:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?



In terms of discussing my issues with Chrome, at the time, I was not aware of the NVDA group, or any other group in the first place. Since then, I have had little interest in, or reason to, try Chrome again, for privacy reasons among other concerns.

I might try Brave though. Still, I definitely stand by my recommendation of Firefox at this point.


Re: Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

Amir
 

Let's disagree here. I've had various issues with Firefox -- from old to new, and won't touch it in the near future. I'd rather use Chrome or a Chromium-based browser. Honestly I trust Google -- at least more than I trust the likes of Facebook, so privacy concerns aren't a big issue.
 
Best,
Amir


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

Akash Kakkar
 

David,
Yes, the folders got created and the feeds were in there.
But no articles at all.
I manually syncronised everything but no luck

On 8/10/20, Amir <mobilespace08@gmail.com> wrote:
Unfortunately that doesn't cut it for me although I understand the benefits.
When I'm at my computer and hit Refresh, I fully expect to get the latest
articles not what the web-based readers might dictate. And if you happen to
depend on the speed aspect for work, such an access becomes more essential.
Honestly I don't share the articles -- even the ones I read for leisure.
Even if I do, I share them via email which works well with Internet
Explorer. Nowadays even most Edge/Chrome RSS extensions also support
full-fledged article sharing so that's a nonissue if the need arises. I also
use Lire on my iPhone for RSS stuff. It supports full-fledged sharing and
its stand-alone mode truly rocks.

Best,
Amir




Re: Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

Jesse Farquharson
 

In terms of discussing my issues with Chrome, at the time, I was not aware of the NVDA group, or any other group in the first place. Since then, I have had little interest in, or reason to, try Chrome again, for privacy reasons among other concerns.

I might try Brave though. Still, I definitely stand by my recommendation of Firefox at this point.


Re: Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

Gene
 

If you had discussed your difficulties somewhere with blind users, you might have had a very different experience after your initial one. Key strokes do make sense. the interface as far as working with settings and other things, not browsing pages, is different but it is not that different so as to cause serious learning problems.

Firefox is good too, but it is a limitation if you rule out not using another modern browser. There are times when one browser works better, at times, much better on a web page.

If you want to try Chrome again, a lot of people would discuss its use with you. For a demanding blind Internet user, it is important to have more than one modern browser available.

Also, the Brave Browser is a Chrome-based browser and has a similar interface. it is well worth trying, for reasons I won't go into here.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Farquharson
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 12:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?



Honestly, I used Google Chrome with NVDA, once, a while back. I lasted all of five minutes with it. The interface was just too confusing and the keystrokes made no sense.

If you are concerned about privacy, I would absolutely not go to Chrome again.

The most NVDA friendly browser, in my experience, is Firefox. I have had zero issues with it, and you don't get any of that page loading or loading complete stuff or whatever. The interface is, in my opinion, also much more pleasant.

Hope this helps.

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