I agree, I do have supernova screen reader active so I can technically do a few tests, however I use it for things like configuring some winamp preffs and to play smuglers.

I do test the new edge with it and windows desktop and a few other things, and I may even try to get it working with software like vmware workstation but to be honest, its quite minimal.

I, too, have had plenty an issue with JAWS. I used it from grade 4 onwards on school provided computers and frequently found it slow to start. More than that, I would often run into an issue where JAWS would be in the middle of reading something, and whatever synth I was using at the time would completely freeze up and just continue vocalizing the same sound non-stop. Sometimes it would happen multiple times a day and sometimes only once a week.

There also came a few incidents where, for no apparent reason, JAWS reverted to 40 minute demo mode and the school had to buy a brand new license even though no one did anything to the JAWS program/version/whatever.

As soon as I got my own computer through government funding, the first thing I did was download NVDA on it. I also got a JAWS 17 license for it, but... honestly, almost four years later I am starting to consider that a waste of money. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used JAWS, and I've found that in each case, for my needs, if one program doesn't work with one, it doesn't work with the other. BitDefender and NordVPN being prime examples.

I, too, have had plenty an issue with JAWS. I used it from grade 4 onwards on school provided computers and frequently found it slow to start. More than that, I would often run into an issue where JAWS would be in the middle of reading something, and whatever synth I was using at the time would completely freeze up and just continue vocalizing the same sound non-stop. Sometimes it would happen multiple times a day and sometimes only once a week.

There also came a few incidents where, for no apparent reason, JAWS reverted to 40 minute demo mode and the school had to buy a brand new license even though no one did anything to the JAWS program/version/whatever.

As soon as I got my own computer through government funding, the first thing I did was download NVDA on it. I also got a JAWS 17 license for it, but... honestly, almost four years later I am starting to consider that a waste of money. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used JAWS, and I've found that in each case, for my needs, if one program doesn't work with one, it doesn't work with the other. BitDefender and NordVPN being prime examples.

It might encourage them to learn or dabble if it were [pointed out that most of what most users use are Windows and program commands.  You can learn only a small number of commands, read title bar, adjusting speech as you want, and perhaps a few screen review commands and you can do a lot with any screen-reader.  And these days, web browsing screen-reader commands are standardized, at least on the screen-readers I have used.  It might be nice to know the read current line command and read current word and character commands, but only knowing a small number of commands you can do enough to make a second screen-reader a very good idea.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel

Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 3:50 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 04:41 PM, Jackie wrote:

I also strongly feel that folks on any given day should have more than 1
screen reader in their arsenal if at all possible, because some are
just better at certain things than others.

You're preachin' to the choir!!   This is something I tell all my clients, even when I can't have the time to teach them the alternative ones.

One need not be equally proficient in multiple screen readers (though it certainly doesn't hurt) but having the basics of several, so that you can try another when the one you prefer is being recalcitrant, makes life much easier.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Hi,


Let me address these two instances from the subject line.


When I open Google Chrome, I'm no longer able to hear the output speech when I press the mentioned keystroke (NVDA plus numpad divide). Note that by means of the keyboard I position NVDA navigator object to a link, button, editable area, etc, and when I press the keystroke to position the mouse to the navigator object, what is under it is not reported by NVDA. When I engage Golden cursor in Chrome, too, NVDA would only say: section, landmark, button, toolbar, link. You may conclude that the names of these are not spoken.


But, when I open, for instance, CCleaner, and/or when I do that experiment on the desktop surface, all elements are spoken when I press the keystroke.


It must be noted that the previous version of NVDA performed that task successfully. I can do without that particular keystroke, but I think that it is good to report such a behaviour, though.


NVDA version: latest


Google Chrome release version: latest


Operating system in use: Windows 7, 64 bit SP1.


Cheers,

Dejan

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 09:17 AM, Tony Ballou wrote:

The adage seems to be if what we've got works, why fix or in this case, try to change it.

But, given your background, you also know that money has been getting tighter and tighter and tighter.  There is a very strong case to be made for NVDA on that front, since no one can claim it's not a mature and full-service product (slight differences from JAWS don't make it "not full-service," just somewhat different).

There is also a clear case to be made that supplying software without training, particularly for something as complicated as a screen reader, is a recipe for disaster.  Clients will abandon that which they cannot use even vaguely effectively, and those of us "in this biz" have seen this more times than we care to count.

It's also critical to direct clients to resources such as this very group as part of their training.  There is no way that any trainer/tutor can ever possibly cover what any given individual will ultimately need to do with their screen reader.  Our job is to launch the client with a solid foundation upon which they can build independently, but independently does not mean "alone and without any outside guidance."  Knowing where to turn for assistance when you hit the inevitable, "How in the heck do I do this?!!," class of question is crucial.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 3:41 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 03:34 PM, Kerryn Gunness wrote:

when i ask questions about programs i use with NVDA, i am told the group is for NVDA related questions and the thread becomes locked
just asking

There is a worldwide crisis occurring where many individuals are now housebound (including myself).  Many of the members here are transitioning to NVDA from another screen reader, one of which may be JAWS.  In a situation such as this, when a major screen reader vendor offers a free license to use their product it warrants mention throughout the various screen reader online communities.

And, you have apparently not read through the content of this topic at all, which you should do before commenting.   JAWS has been incidental, not central, to it.  You'll find NVDA being mentioned many, many more times than JAWS has been.  It was just the free offer that launched the topic, but it certainly has not been its focus.  And even if the free offer had been its focus, under the current circumstances, I'd allow it.  There are times rules should absolutely be bent.  This is one of those.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 04:01 PM, Jackie wrote:

While I would say that NVDA meets the needs of many "general" users,
unfortunately, there are still some situations where Jaws does what
NVDA can't.

And vice versa.  There are also times where Narrator can do something the
other two don't handle gracefully.

But, under typical circumstances, other than something in the form of, "I
can do [insert thing here] with JAWS/Narrator/Window-Eyes, but can't figure
out how to do it with NVDA," being brought up any extended discussion of
JAWS, Narrator, or Window-Eyes on this group is off-topic.

That would even be true now, today, were the conversation about how to use
JAWS, Narrator, or Window-Eyes.  That's off-topic.

I just wanted to point out in response to the original question what my
reasoning was for allowing the discussion that Freedom Scientific/Vispero
was offering JAWS, Fusion, and ZoomText licenses at no cost to home users
through June 30th.  It's an exception condition, not a change in group
rules.  Group owners and moderators will, occasionally, allow topics for
exception conditions that are generally recognized as such without further
explanation.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

*Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.*

~ Madonna

Has anyone investigated whether it is possible to run the NVDA portable version from a web site? I was thinking about what System Access did and wondered if it were possible. If it is then we could have access to speech anywhere we went.

******
If we don't take time to think before we speak we may find ourselves in a situation where our speech becomes a bit stinky!

Hi,


As a long time adaptive trainer and technical specialist, I have seen this same thing, numerous times. I myself have been an NVDA user for about 8 years or so now.  And I have seen it grow, and improve by leaps and bounds.  Since I first tried it out when situations forced me to moved to a more affordable screen reading solution, I will be the first to admit that I didn't bring any of my clients across because of the familiarity aspects and issues with more of the shall we say mainstream products. However, if they were in a situation where they wanted to purchase a new system from me, I would be sure to install NVDA on it for them so that they would have it at their fingertips if they couldn't afford Jaws and bring them across that way.  Getting schools and organizations to support NVDA is by no means going to be an easy task for they all have been spoon fed on Jaws as the premiere screen reading software for the longest time.  The adage seems to be if what we've got works, why fix or in this case, try to change it.


Tony

On 3/23/2020 2:02 PM, Sky Mundell wrote:

Hello guys . I do agree with everybody about what they're saying. However, I
am going to point something out to you, and that is, as a 6 year adaptive
tech trainer who has trained blind students in screen readers, I have to say
that there are folks out there that won't give up there screen reader too
easily. As an example, I do have friends out there that know that NVDA
exists, and so on and so forth, but a lot of them think that if something is
cheaper, it is inferior. I'll give you an example. I do have a friend in
California who has heard of NVDA, and her blind friends know that NVDA
exists, and they have tried it but they end up going back to JAWS because
its what they know. Also Many of the institutions that I've come across have
never heard of NVDA, or if they have heard of it, they assume that it is
incomplete or inferior because they have seem more than one person use JAWS
and iPhones so they think, all blind folks use, are JAWS screen reader, and
iPhones. Which, as you and I know, is not true. As, while JAWS and iPhone's
are certainly used, not everybody uses, or cannot afford, either JAWS, or
iPhone. Another example is that I have a relative that works at a
university, and they use JAWS and I bet if they have heard of NVDA they
would be reluctant to try it because they would, once again, assume it is
incomplete, and inferior. Sadly,  there is no support for NVDA in the school
districts that I am aware of where I am. I am certainly in favor of client
choice and I am in favor of cheaper stuff but at the moment its going to be
real tough to get organisations to realize that NVDA even exists let alone
trying it out.