Date   

locked Re: Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

Luke Robinett
 

Lol Who the heck is still using Windows XP in 2020? Time to upgrade, folks. It is riddled with security holes and Microsoft droppde support for it years ago

On Mar 22, 2020, at 3:01 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:



Hello NVDA users and add-on developers,

 

First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen to advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. Even if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please support each other.

 

Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.

 

At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, with many people  asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement:

 

Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, “sorry, no more, period.” These include:

 

  • Making add-ons compatible with Windows XP, Server 2003, Vista, and Server 2008
  • Fixing compatibility issues and non-working add-ons after you knowingly install newer add-on releases on NVDA 2017.3 or earlier
  • Backporting features and bug fixes from newer NVDA releases to NVDA 2017.3
  • Maintaining a long-term support version of NVDA for Windows XP/Server 2003/Vista/Server 2008 users

 

Most importantly, I will flatly say “no” if you ask me privately to ask NV Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons, including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example), incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example), features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example), support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I’m either maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA 2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends.

 

My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an individual developer to sink in. Note that I’m not speaking on behalf of other developers – others have their own policies regarding support for Windows XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.

 

I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted folks to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases (including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a bold statement and say “no” to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support Windows XP, but didn’t announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close the doors to Windows XP support from my end – once again, this is an individual developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing that others will make statements on their own.

 

Thank you for understanding.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Q Read alternative

Isaac Porat
 

Hi


More information on SpeakOn based on questions on this thread and others.


SpeakOn home page is at:

http://www.speakon.org.uk/SpeakOn.html


You will find information on the media types its support, links to the docs and mailing list.


The tutorials produced by David Griffith recently found somewhere else on this thread are excellent.


Although the latest version was released in 2016 with one minor exception everything works and there are know known bugs.


SpeakOn supports English only and does not support Braille.

It does not support PDF either.


It is recommended by RNIB in the UK for reading their audio books in Daisy; SpeakOn supports Daisy 2 used mostly (I think) in Europe. It does not support Daisy 3 in the US.


Being developed in the UK it supports RNIB newspapers and magazines in test (epub) and audio.

It supports the epub format generally.

It does not support DRM as used mostly in the US


The NVDA SpeakOn add-on is not necessary to use it but makes sure that NVDA does not speakOn when SpeakOn has the focus; it does not speak much anyway and I shall release an updated version of this add-on soon to this list.


Regards

Isaac Porat

SpeakOn's developer

On 24/03/2020 19:48, Mallard wrote:
Hello,


I have one question. Does it support Braille?


Thanks,

Ciao,

Ollie




On 24/03/2020 19:04, Daniel Damacena wrote:

Could you send me a link for this?

I am amazed by your description!

Can it read pdf files?

Thank you!

Em 21/03/2020 22:38, David Griffith escreveu:

I know I am biased because I have done a podcast series on this fantastic app but for me the best accessible ePub Book    reader on a  PC , either paid, or free , remains by a country mile remains the free Speak On Media Suite.

I am continually amazed it is never ever mentioned as an accessible option for reading ePub books.

Just to mention a few of its features.

Customisation of book reading voice including on the fly adjustment of reading volume and speed  of narration whilst reading a book through hotkeys. I know of no other book reader which does this.

Able to easily navigate through a book by chapter structure , headings, 50 lines, paragraph, sentence line word or character.

Ability to easily set markers in text of ePub books and copy and paste this text out of Speak On into a Word Processor.

Alternatively control a and control c will copy the chapter as text.

Ability to get single key press on book location and information.

Ability to resume reading from last position read on any book even if file location has changed.

Bookmark management  - ability to set and delete bookmarks.

It even has a virtual book creation function based on a search term which is incredibly  useful for study purposes.

Suppose you have a long academic book you need to search through to study a topic, you can in Speak On define a search term and Speak On will produce a smaller "virtual eBook” which will consists only of the chapters which contain the key phrase or terms in your defined search pattern. Again I know of no other accessible eBook reader which contains this feature.

David Griffith

Just to mention just a few of the features.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>; for Windows 10

*From: *Jason White via Groups.Io <mailto:jason=jasonjgw.net@groups.io>
*Sent: *22 March 2020 00:25
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Q Read alternative

Another option is to install Thorium Reader from the Microsoft Store. It supports EPUB books. Bookshare can be set so that it provides downloads in EPUB format.

*From: *<nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Kingett <kingettr@gmail.com>
*Reply-To: *<nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Date: *Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 09:26
*To: *<nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *[nvda] Q Read alternative

I wanted to share an open source Q Read alternative called Bookworm. It does not have bookshare support yet, nor does it support links, and headings, or tables, but still. It's a free option. The main website is below, where you can also read the manual.

I'm adding this to the accessible apps github page when I have a moment.

https://mush42.github.io/bookworm/


Re: Value of headers not readable in Thunderbird

john doe
 
Edited

Moderator's Note: The quoted material below comes directly from an earlier message in this topic. Since it is retained for context, even though long, it's still here in top-posted format.

On 3/22/2020 6:51 AM, john doe wrote:
On 3/22/2020 3:47 AM, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:
Hi


The following add on  might help at
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/mozillaScripts.en.html

If i remember right it could also be done under the view menu then sort
by. to what you wanted to hear.


The add on also is meant to make it easier to move columns that are read
out in the header the old way was using the mouse to do it.


Hopefully it does the job for you.
Actually, along with the field 'date' I would also like to have
'User-Agent' field,.

Using the tab key to go through all the headers the value of the field
'User-Agent' is empty.
Where the value of the field is 'User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT
10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 in your case.'
An other way to see the source of the e-mail is to go in the 'view' menu
then look for 'View source' or to use the shortcut 'CTRl+u'.

--
John Doe


Re: NVDA 2019.3 Crash, liblouis?

David Csercsics
 

I saw that too, but it hasn't crashed with 2020.1 beta1 so far yet, which got a LibLouis update. Try the beta, and see how you get along.


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

Kerryn Gunness
 


thanks again brian
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:14 AM, Kerryn Gunness wrote:
available to only u s and canada
Incorrect.  Obtaining it directly through the website is limited to the USA and Canada.

The website explicitly states, "International opportunities available, please contact the distributor in your country."

All of this has, of course, been laid out previously:  https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/71737
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: NVDA does not read thunderbird 68.6.0 headers of messages

 

Just discussed at some length, three days ago, in topic,  Value of headers not readable in Thunderbird.     

Searching the NVDA Group Archive

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

 

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:14 AM, Kerryn Gunness wrote:
available to only u s and canada
Incorrect.  Obtaining it directly through the website is limited to the USA and Canada.

The website explicitly states, "International opportunities available, please contact the distributor in your country."

All of this has, of course, been laid out previously:  https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/71737
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

Kerryn Gunness
 


available to only u s and canada
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 04:51 AM, aikeo koomanivong wrote:
You mean that Jaws will give free license just only to JUNE right?
As I said previously:  Yes, a free, short term license that runs through June 30, 2020, that's available to home users.

Unless Vispero were to extend the termination date, but the current terms are through June 30th.  Since they normally sell the product they're not going to give it away at no cost "forever."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

 

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 04:51 AM, aikeo koomanivong wrote:
You mean that Jaws will give free license just only to JUNE right?
As I said previously:  Yes, a free, short term license that runs through June 30, 2020, that's available to home users.

Unless Vispero were to extend the termination date, but the current terms are through June 30th.  Since they normally sell the product they're not going to give it away at no cost "forever."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

aikeo koomanivong
 

Dear Brian and all

You mean that Jaws will give free license just only to JUNE right? It’s not forever right?

Thanks

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jesse Farquharson
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

 

Well, they took the opportunity to upgrade it, if memory serves, though it was several years ago. I did go through two or three upgrades in that time, though. From JAWS 9 to 10 to... 12 to 14, I believe. Maybe it was 13 instead of 12, I'm not sure. But having to pay for an upgrade as frequently as they seemed to... I'm surprised they did that at all. I would never, ever do that. It's part of the reason why I prefer NVDA.

 


NVDA does not read thunderbird 68.6.0 headers of messages

enes sarıbaş
 

Hi all,

I found an issue with latest thunderbird and NVDA. Open a message, and select all headers in the view menu. When tabbing through the headers,  NVDA will only read the header of the header, but not the content. Object nav is required to read this. This was a regression as it worked normally before. Can anyone else reproduce this?


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

Jesse Farquharson
 

Well, they took the opportunity to upgrade it, if memory serves, though it was several years ago. I did go through two or three upgrades in that time, though. From JAWS 9 to 10 to... 12 to 14, I believe. Maybe it was 13 instead of 12, I'm not sure. But having to pay for an upgrade as frequently as they seemed to... I'm surprised they did that at all. I would never, ever do that. It's part of the reason why I prefer NVDA.


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:20 PM, aikeo koomanivong wrote:
Right now Jaws’s company give free license?
Yes, a free, short term license that runs through June 30, 2020, that's available to home users.

If you are in the USA or Canada, then go to the Freedom Scientific home page and search for the Free Home License link.

If you are anywhere else in the world, contact the JAWS distributor in your nation.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

Gene
 

If the school had to get a new license, they were incompetent.  The owners of JAWS have corrected problems with JAWS reverting to 40 minute mode as a matter of routine and those who have such problems don’t need to purchase new licenses.  It wouldn’t even be legal for the owners of JAWS to require this. 
 
As far as your problems with JAWS are concerned, they are not typical, as I said in a previous message. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today
 

I, too, have had plenty an issue with JAWS. I used it from grade 4 onwards on school provided computers and frequently found it slow to start. More than that, I would often run into an issue where JAWS would be in the middle of reading something, and whatever synth I was using at the time would completely freeze up and just continue vocalizing the same sound non-stop. Sometimes it would happen multiple times a day and sometimes only once a week.

There also came a few incidents where, for no apparent reason, JAWS reverted to 40 minute demo mode and the school had to buy a brand new license even though no one did anything to the JAWS program/version/whatever.

As soon as I got my own computer through government funding, the first thing I did was download NVDA on it. I also got a JAWS 17 license for it, but... honestly, almost four years later I am starting to consider that a waste of money. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used JAWS, and I've found that in each case, for my needs, if one program doesn't work with one, it doesn't work with the other. BitDefender and NordVPN being prime examples.


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

aikeo koomanivong
 

Hi all

What are you talking about

Sorry guys, I cannot find 1st topic just saw only subject free jaws license and there are many e-mail .

Right now Jaws’s company give free license?

I love NVDA I stop used Jaws since 2013.

My students most of them known Jaws but all of them they used NVDA.

 

If they are give free license just would like to grab and use for sometime with situation that NVDA cannot access.

Thanks

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 8:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

 

I agree, I do have supernova screen reader active so I can technically do a few tests, however I use it for things like configuring some winamp preffs and to play smuglers.

I do test the new edge with it and windows desktop and a few other things, and I may even try to get it working with software like vmware workstation but to be honest, its quite minimal.

 

 

On 25/03/2020 2:37 pm, Jesse Farquharson wrote:

I, too, have had plenty an issue with JAWS. I used it from grade 4 onwards on school provided computers and frequently found it slow to start. More than that, I would often run into an issue where JAWS would be in the middle of reading something, and whatever synth I was using at the time would completely freeze up and just continue vocalizing the same sound non-stop. Sometimes it would happen multiple times a day and sometimes only once a week.

There also came a few incidents where, for no apparent reason, JAWS reverted to 40 minute demo mode and the school had to buy a brand new license even though no one did anything to the JAWS program/version/whatever.

As soon as I got my own computer through government funding, the first thing I did was download NVDA on it. I also got a JAWS 17 license for it, but... honestly, almost four years later I am starting to consider that a waste of money. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used JAWS, and I've found that in each case, for my needs, if one program doesn't work with one, it doesn't work with the other. BitDefender and NordVPN being prime examples.

 


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

 

I agree, I do have supernova screen reader active so I can technically do a few tests, however I use it for things like configuring some winamp preffs and to play smuglers.

I do test the new edge with it and windows desktop and a few other things, and I may even try to get it working with software like vmware workstation but to be honest, its quite minimal.



On 25/03/2020 2:37 pm, Jesse Farquharson wrote:

I, too, have had plenty an issue with JAWS. I used it from grade 4 onwards on school provided computers and frequently found it slow to start. More than that, I would often run into an issue where JAWS would be in the middle of reading something, and whatever synth I was using at the time would completely freeze up and just continue vocalizing the same sound non-stop. Sometimes it would happen multiple times a day and sometimes only once a week.

There also came a few incidents where, for no apparent reason, JAWS reverted to 40 minute demo mode and the school had to buy a brand new license even though no one did anything to the JAWS program/version/whatever.

As soon as I got my own computer through government funding, the first thing I did was download NVDA on it. I also got a JAWS 17 license for it, but... honestly, almost four years later I am starting to consider that a waste of money. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used JAWS, and I've found that in each case, for my needs, if one program doesn't work with one, it doesn't work with the other. BitDefender and NordVPN being prime examples.


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

Jesse Farquharson
 

I, too, have had plenty an issue with JAWS. I used it from grade 4 onwards on school provided computers and frequently found it slow to start. More than that, I would often run into an issue where JAWS would be in the middle of reading something, and whatever synth I was using at the time would completely freeze up and just continue vocalizing the same sound non-stop. Sometimes it would happen multiple times a day and sometimes only once a week.

There also came a few incidents where, for no apparent reason, JAWS reverted to 40 minute demo mode and the school had to buy a brand new license even though no one did anything to the JAWS program/version/whatever.

As soon as I got my own computer through government funding, the first thing I did was download NVDA on it. I also got a JAWS 17 license for it, but... honestly, almost four years later I am starting to consider that a waste of money. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used JAWS, and I've found that in each case, for my needs, if one program doesn't work with one, it doesn't work with the other. BitDefender and NordVPN being prime examples.


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

Gene
 

I don’t know why you had problems with JAWS but that is not the usual experience.  I used it for years before NVDA and I had no more problems with crashes than with any other well functioning program.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today
 

True jean.

With nvda I use a subset of the commands not all of them.

The advantage of nvda is you don't need to use most commands unless you really need to, stuff just works.

When I did my dolphin stuff the same applied but obviously with more commands.

In jaws I was given a tutorial to use all the commands, half of which I promptly forgot.

And while I did use jaws for bits and bobs, I spent half of my life, fixing jaws crashes, reinstalling and reformatting because of driver screwups according to jaws on xp, and resetting things weekly because of jaws.

When I switched to windows 7 I kept my dolphin stuff up because it didn't do my head in like jaws.

Now I am a dolphin tester I use both dolphin supernova and nvda.

I must admit that nvda is my primary reader of choice though.

 

 

On 25/03/2020 1:13 pm, Gene wrote:
It might encourage them to learn or dabble if it were [pointed out that most of what most users use are Windows and program commands.  You can learn only a small number of commands, read title bar, adjusting speech as you want, and perhaps a few screen review commands and you can do a lot with any screen-reader.  And these days, web browsing screen-reader commands are standardized, at least on the screen-readers I have used.  It might be nice to know the read current line command and read current word and character commands, but only knowing a small number of commands you can do enough to make a second screen-reader a very good idea.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today
 
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 04:41 PM, Jackie wrote:
I also strongly feel that folks on any given day should have more than 1
screen reader in their arsenal if at all possible, because some are
just better at certain things than others.
You're preachin' to the choir!!   This is something I tell all my clients, even when I can't have the time to teach them the alternative ones.

One need not be equally proficient in multiple screen readers (though it certainly doesn't hurt) but having the basics of several, so that you can try another when the one you prefer is being recalcitrant, makes life much easier.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

 

True jean.

With nvda I use a subset of the commands not all of them.

The advantage of nvda is you don't need to use most commands unless you really need to, stuff just works.

When I did my dolphin stuff the same applied but obviously with more commands.

In jaws I was given a tutorial to use all the commands, half of which I promptly forgot.

And while I did use jaws for bits and bobs, I spent half of my life, fixing jaws crashes, reinstalling and reformatting because of driver screwups according to jaws on xp, and resetting things weekly because of jaws.

When I switched to windows 7 I kept my dolphin stuff up because it didn't do my head in like jaws.

Now I am a dolphin tester I use both dolphin supernova and nvda.

I must admit that nvda is my primary reader of choice though.



On 25/03/2020 1:13 pm, Gene wrote:
It might encourage them to learn or dabble if it were [pointed out that most of what most users use are Windows and program commands.  You can learn only a small number of commands, read title bar, adjusting speech as you want, and perhaps a few screen review commands and you can do a lot with any screen-reader.  And these days, web browsing screen-reader commands are standardized, at least on the screen-readers I have used.  It might be nice to know the read current line command and read current word and character commands, but only knowing a small number of commands you can do enough to make a second screen-reader a very good idea.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today
 
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 04:41 PM, Jackie wrote:
I also strongly feel that folks on any given day should have more than 1
screen reader in their arsenal if at all possible, because some are
just better at certain things than others.
You're preachin' to the choir!!   This is something I tell all my clients, even when I can't have the time to teach them the alternative ones.

One need not be equally proficient in multiple screen readers (though it certainly doesn't hurt) but having the basics of several, so that you can try another when the one you prefer is being recalcitrant, makes life much easier.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

Gene
 

It might encourage them to learn or dabble if it were [pointed out that most of what most users use are Windows and program commands.  You can learn only a small number of commands, read title bar, adjusting speech as you want, and perhaps a few screen review commands and you can do a lot with any screen-reader.  And these days, web browsing screen-reader commands are standardized, at least on the screen-readers I have used.  It might be nice to know the read current line command and read current word and character commands, but only knowing a small number of commands you can do enough to make a second screen-reader a very good idea.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today
 
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 04:41 PM, Jackie wrote:
I also strongly feel that folks on any given day should have more than 1
screen reader in their arsenal if at all possible, because some are
just better at certain things than others.
You're preachin' to the choir!!   This is something I tell all my clients, even when I can't have the time to teach them the alternative ones.

One need not be equally proficient in multiple screen readers (though it certainly doesn't hurt) but having the basics of several, so that you can try another when the one you prefer is being recalcitrant, makes life much easier.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

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