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Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today
Angel
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From: Sky Mundell
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 2:02 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today
Hello guys . I do agree with everybody about what they're saying. However, I am going to point something out to you, and that is, as a 6 year adaptive tech trainer who has trained blind students in screen readers, I have to say that there are folks out there that won't give up there screen reader too easily. As an example, I do have friends out there that know that NVDA exists, and so on and so forth, but a lot of them think that if something is cheaper, it is inferior. I'll give you an example. I do have a friend in California who has heard of NVDA, and her blind friends know that NVDA exists, and they have tried it but they end up going back to JAWS because its what they know. Also Many of the institutions that I've come across have never heard of NVDA, or if they have heard of it, they assume that it is incomplete or inferior because they have seem more than one person use JAWS and iPhones so they think, all blind folks use, are JAWS screen reader, and iPhones. Which, as you and I know, is not true. As, while JAWS and iPhone's are certainly used, not everybody uses, or cannot afford, either JAWS, or iPhone. Another example is that I have a relative that works at a university, and they use JAWS and I bet if they have heard of NVDA they would be reluctant to try it because they would, once again, assume it is incomplete, and inferior. Sadly, there is no support for NVDA in the school districts that I am aware of where I am. I am certainly in favor of client choice and I am in favor of cheaper stuff but at the moment its going to be real tough to get organisations to realize that NVDA even exists let alone trying it out.
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Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today
Austin Pinto <austinpinto.xaviers@...>
also many people have told me that nvda is not as secure as jaws which
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i think is totally wrong.
On 3/23/20, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Correct! I totally get your point and I agree with you 100%. --
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut.. austinpinto.xaviers@gmail.com follow me on twitter. austinmpinto contact me on skype. austin.pinto3
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Adobe connect
Justin Harford
Hello I wanted to see what people's experience has been using NVDA with Adobe connect for webinars. The Association on higher education and disability uses Adobe connect, as well as various government agencies, and there is lots of wonderful material about the accessibility of Adobe connect. Yet when I try to install it, I find that I can't even interact with the controls using Windows 10 and NVDA. I get similar results when using voiceover and iOS. There was a short while a year ago when I found that I was able to go to a webinar using Adobe connect by memorizing the badly labeled or non-labeled buttons, but when I tried more recently to get onto a webinar as a panelist, I found that the buttons were not even visible anymore. Has anyone had a different result and do have any thoughts about why it's not working for me? I'm in the process of asking partner organizations of the place where I work to use different webinar platforms like zoom or go to webinar and I wanted to be more informed, since all of the material online seems to contradict my advice. Regards Justin Harford program Coordinator (NCDE)
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Re: Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
It is generally a given, and always has been, that compatibility with non-supported Windows versions will not be maintained if any changes to upcoming code are required to achieve same (at least for the general public, there have been private, and very expensive, arrangements for extended support).
Most backward compatibility is the result of chance, not intent, when the OS that the application happens to be compatible with is out of support. It just depends on when the next "tectonic shift" in a given piece of code occurs to keep it current and able to keep moving forward. If a break occurs when that happens, then it's always been considered a normal part of the bargain. All software has a finite service life, whether OS or application. And it works in both directions as well. There are applications from virtually all pre-Windows 7 versions that won't run on 8 or later. 'Twas ever thus. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today
Sky Mundell
Correct! I totally get your point and I agree with you 100%.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 02:02 PM, Sky Mundell wrote:
And having slogged that road I can say you're correct. That being said, it's only if we keep beating the NVDA-option drum that it will ever make inroads in both commercial and academic environments to a much greater extent than it already has. Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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Re: Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
Jackie
It's unfair to ask developers to support unsupported software. They've
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got enough on their plate to keep up w/new technologies, & often these are incompatible w/older ones. Not only so, but by extension, folks who ask this are basically asking developers to support software which both parties have been warned are a security risk, & ethically many developers don't feel they either can or want to do that.
On 3/23/20, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, --
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to: wp4newbs-request@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs & check out my sites at www.brighter-vision.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com
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Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 02:02 PM, Sky Mundell wrote:
I am certainly in favor of clientAnd having slogged that road I can say you're correct. That being said, it's only if we keep beating the NVDA-option drum that it will ever make inroads in both commercial and academic environments to a much greater extent than it already has. JAWS being the "granddaddy of all screen readers" means that it has a massively huge head start. But I think Vispero sees the writing on the wall, as both NVDA and Narrator are both strong competitors, and will only keep becoming stronger ones. I believe that's why the whole new subscription licensing came into existence. People are now balking at what had historically been asked as far as price for JAWS. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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Free JAWS licence that was anounced today
Sky Mundell
Hello guys . I do agree with everybody about what they're saying. However, I
am going to point something out to you, and that is, as a 6 year adaptive tech trainer who has trained blind students in screen readers, I have to say that there are folks out there that won't give up there screen reader too easily. As an example, I do have friends out there that know that NVDA exists, and so on and so forth, but a lot of them think that if something is cheaper, it is inferior. I'll give you an example. I do have a friend in California who has heard of NVDA, and her blind friends know that NVDA exists, and they have tried it but they end up going back to JAWS because its what they know. Also Many of the institutions that I've come across have never heard of NVDA, or if they have heard of it, they assume that it is incomplete or inferior because they have seem more than one person use JAWS and iPhones so they think, all blind folks use, are JAWS screen reader, and iPhones. Which, as you and I know, is not true. As, while JAWS and iPhone's are certainly used, not everybody uses, or cannot afford, either JAWS, or iPhone. Another example is that I have a relative that works at a university, and they use JAWS and I bet if they have heard of NVDA they would be reluctant to try it because they would, once again, assume it is incomplete, and inferior. Sadly, there is no support for NVDA in the school districts that I am aware of where I am. I am certainly in favor of client choice and I am in favor of cheaper stuff but at the moment its going to be real tough to get organisations to realize that NVDA even exists let alone trying it out.
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Can't install NVDA 2020 beta I
Lino Morales
Hi all. Can’t install NVDA 2020 beta I. Just beeps away. Running WIN 10 current Insider build. I don’t know if this a bad file that was uploaded or not.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Re: Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
Hi, The exact statements from NV Access and developers back then were that using XP is now a security risk for many, and that people can use NVDA 2017.3 and old add-ons should they need to use XP and friends. As for my statement back then, it referred to my own add-ons. The statement I wrote below covers cases where a user would write to developers asking us to make certain new features available for old releases, which cannot be done, particularly now that we have fully moved onto Python 3. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 10:55 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
Hi, I don’t remember the time you and NVDA developers did say xp support was no longer going to work for users who still want to continue using xp. You did say maybe 2 or 3 years ago you were going to no longer support xp and vista. I think windows 7 is next.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Joseph Lee
Hello NVDA users and add-on developers,
First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen to advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. Even if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please support each other.
Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, with many people asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement:
Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, “sorry, no more, period.” These include:
Most importantly, I will flatly say “no” if you ask me privately to ask NV Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons, including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example), incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example), features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example), support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I’m either maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA 2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends.
My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an individual developer to sink in. Note that I’m not speaking on behalf of other developers – others have their own policies regarding support for Windows XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted folks to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases (including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a bold statement and say “no” to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support Windows XP, but didn’t announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close the doors to Windows XP support from my end – once again, this is an individual developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing that others will make statements on their own.
Thank you for understanding. Cheers, Joseph
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Re: Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
Arlene
Hi, I don’t remember the time you and NVDA developers did say xp support was no longer going to work for users who still want to continue using xp. You did say maybe 2 or 3 years ago you were going to no longer support xp and vista. I think windows 7 is next.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: March 22, 2020 3:01 PM To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
Hello NVDA users and add-on developers,
First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen to advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. Even if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please support each other.
Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, with many people asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement:
Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, “sorry, no more, period.” These include:
Most importantly, I will flatly say “no” if you ask me privately to ask NV Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons, including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example), incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example), features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example), support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I’m either maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA 2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends.
My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an individual developer to sink in. Note that I’m not speaking on behalf of other developers – others have their own policies regarding support for Windows XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted folks to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases (including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a bold statement and say “no” to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support Windows XP, but didn’t announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close the doors to Windows XP support from my end – once again, this is an individual developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing that others will make statements on their own.
Thank you for understanding. Cheers, Joseph
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Re: Free License Offer: Tweet by Freedom Scientific on Twitter
I have absolutely no love whatsoever for Vispero, but if this topic isn't an example of, "No good deed goes unpunished," then nothing could be.
Since the necessary information is out, and for which I thank Laurie Mehta, this topic is now locked. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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Re: Free License Offer: Tweet by Freedom Scientific on Twitter
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 01:41 PM, Clement Chou wrote:
offer unrestricted licenses for a period of time.Uh, that's precisely what they're doing. I don't see any distinction between what I quoted above and "a short term license with a time restriction." Unless you mean they should be offering this to businesses as well, which I guess they could, but most businesses where JAWS is a need are very likely to have it licensed already. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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Re: Free License Offer: Tweet by Freedom Scientific on Twitter
Vispero/Freedom Scientific is not changing its business model, that's for certain.
But, making JAWS available at home, for 3 months, for those who use it at the office is still a good thing. If they would happen to get additional subscribers, what's wrong with that? No one is forcing anyone to take advantage of the offer nor to subscribe when it expires. And I won't be surprised if there's a "round two" offer were this ongoing pandemic span longer than June 30th (heaven forfend!!). -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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Re: Free License Offer: Tweet by Freedom Scientific on Twitter
Clement Chou
Agreed. And a short term license with a time restriction? No thank
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you... it would've made more sense for them to either slash prices or offer unrestricted licenses for a period of time. Can't tell me they can't afford to let a few copies go for free with the amount of years they've been operating.
On 3/23/20, Jesse Farquharson <jesse100rules@gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, I have to be honest here. This actually, really, really bothers
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Re: Free License Offer: Tweet by Freedom Scientific on Twitter
David Mehler
This is kind of off topic, IMO, but I'll just say that this jaws offer
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does not offer remote support, which I would think home-stuck users/workers need. I agree with Jesse.
On 3/23/20, Jesse Farquharson <jesse100rules@gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, I have to be honest here. This actually, really, really bothers
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Re: Free License Offer: Tweet by Freedom Scientific on Twitter
Jesse Farquharson
Okay, I have to be honest here. This actually, really, really bothers me. Making it free in the short term to attract long term customers in the face of something like the corona virus. It seems more calculated to benefit their bottom line than help people by, say, slashing license prices for full licenses by a significant amount. I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but it's how I feel. As far as I'm
aware, NVDA can do the same things as JAWS, and then some. I can
count on one hand the number of times I've had to use JAWS since I
got this computer almost four years ago.
On 3/23/2020 1:17 PM, Laurie Mehta via
Groups.Io wrote:
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Re: Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 12:20 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
I said, NO!And very clearly, the first time. No one, and I do mean no one, is actively supporting XP on new software. There happens to be some that, by chance, remains compatible, but the vast majority is not and has not been for many years. Those who have to "make do" with XP must keep their own archive of "last compatible versions" for any software they use (in case they would ever need to reinstall) and make do with it. And I feel a great deal of sympathy for anyone trapped with XP and having to make do, but that doesn't change how the world of technology works. XP is not only dead as a daily driver OS, but it's proverbial remains have turned to dust. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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Free License Offer: Tweet by Freedom Scientific on Twitter
Laurie Mehta
Download the Twitter app “May the Lord of peace himself give you peace at all times and in every way.” (2 Thessalonians 3:16)
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Re: Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
Hi,
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I said, NO! Cheers, Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 3:01 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period hi joseph. as i mentioned in my emails, i only need two or three fixed in newer versions of nvda for backporting to the supported versions of nvda on xp. and i promise that my request does not cause nvda crashing or unresponsiveness in any version of windows! my requests are only specific for firefox and contains important fixes which i am sure benefits everyone. On 3/23/20, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote: Hello NVDA users and add-on developers, -- By God, were I given all the seven heavens with all they contain in order that I may disobey God by depriving an ant from the husk of a grain of barley, I would not do it. imam ali
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