Date   

Re: Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Just about every antimalware program has this false positive.

Kaspersky and a few others are supposed to be better.

Anyway what I actually said was that these programs at least some of them detect more false than well who knows.

I have never got a virus in the last 10 years but I have got a lot of false alarms.

Not sure about win8 etc, but yes you can exclude stuff you know is not a problem.

It would be good actually if you excluded the file you could report all your excluded files to the maker like microsoft and for each you could state what it was, etc and maybe get support on it.

The issue I have and maybe others, is that while some of the stuff we know about, I spend more time stopping false alarms than actual viruses.

I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing but its certainly stopped me from getting any serious security software.

If windows defender and malwarebytes cause this much trouble with a false positive, then I really don't want to know what a really good antivirus will say.

But basically everything on your system is a potential virus depending on the detections and stuff used.

And with the cloud based ai, I doubt that at the automated level there is much control.

If you tell them they will fix the issue but there is no reason to think it will stay fixed.

As a result all the false alarms make the display of the software noisy.

As I said, right now I have so many security holes in my computer caused by so many folder excludes that if it wasn't for ransomware, I have half a mind to exclude my entire hard drive or even disable the windows security subsystem.

However there is always the if factor so I don't.

I havn't run any full system scans in the last 10 years, and I havn't run any malware software in the last 5 years simply because of this issue.

With the so called inteligent stuff about bgt and maybe some older software excluded, it seems that every software package needs a security certification id or something and while it would be nice to get one, I do wander if I could get one myself for the purpose that the software I have is not a problem or something.

I know some say I am just unlucky, but on all my other systems with out blind games, blind software and blind accessible programs there are no trogens at all and that in itself is a concern, no excludes on any of my other systems yet.

Maybe I may exclude nvda just because I am concerned but still, maybe I have over excluded because of all this going on.

On 8/02/2020 7:18 pm, zahra wrote:
Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
folders from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version. I have had odd issues with it in the past. If you are
familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again. I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it. It
never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
up. I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
with no change. I am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage? Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7? Or their Defender hasn't
updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
<mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Quentin,

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe side.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
*Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
Microsoft's random unfounded accusations. If you try to install
the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
RC and that should run fine. You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well. I
have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
else to as well. To be honest, even aside from it being our
program affected, this really annoys me. Defender has NOT found
a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
folders from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version. I have had odd issues with it in the past. If you are
familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again. I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it. It
never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
up. I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
with no change. I am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage? Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7? Or their Defender hasn't
updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
<mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Quentin,

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe side.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
*Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
Microsoft's random unfounded accusations. If you try to install
the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
RC and that should run fine. You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well. I
have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
else to as well. To be honest, even aside from it being our
program affected, this really annoys me. Defender has NOT found
a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest version.  I have had odd issues with it in the past.  If you are familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently.  Even after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows updates, it flags it again.  I had to go into the settings and manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans.  Even then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it.  It never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start up.  I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft with no change.  I  am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage?  Perhaps Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7?  Or their Defender hasn't updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Quentin,

 

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe side.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Hi folks,

 

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for Microsoft's random unfounded accusations.  If you try to install the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.  The install of NVDA will fail.

 

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the RC and that should run fine.  You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

 

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

 

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well.  I have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone else to as well.  To be honest, even aside from it being our program affected, this really annoys me.  Defender has NOT found a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens, but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious software has been found.

 

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about the same timeline this time around.  Apologies for the inconvenience.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

I don't mind the occasional false positive, but here is the thing.

The following programs are currently trogens.

Virtual recorder, ok so I could use something else but I like it.

Textpal and all the older empowermentzone programs but some have been updated.

All bgt games, we sort of know why so maybe I will cut them a little slack with this one except that you need to do the same excludes to malwarebytes.

Some gmagames, and vb6 games, why is unknown.

The bsc stuff.


Yeah I know half of this is really old software but still.

That list is not huge but its enough for me not to trust things.

Now its expanded to nvda and who knows what else.

Its like the story about that boy that cried wolf.

I no longer believe that what my antivirus software is telling me is true.

So I just exclude the file.

I in fact have a different downloads folder for stuff that doesn't run nicely.

Here is the thing, any certified software seems to have a good time with it, that includes microsoft's own software.

Everything else has the potential to be wrongly recognised as something.

In the beginning I could trust the programs I used, a few of my friends and I have the same issue, true, some of my friends take risks I do not.

Sadly how to know if it is or not is unknown.

To put it bluntly now I know that a lot of stuff is targeted it tends to make my scanner very noisy.

I know that at least 100 files and folders on my drive will be misdetected.

I have had it where documents and some audio is a virus, granted those files didn't work and I replaced them so who knows, however, not much to tell if I have this noise.

Otherwise I actually agree with you in fact thats what it was like from 2000-2010 or there abouts.

Suddenly stuff that worked no longer worked.

Its the inconsistancy I just do not understand or in fact like.

I agree at least I don't get a misdetection of an actual virus, but how would I know.

Every time I get a new program, its either a trogen because the virus checker says it is or its not.

Bgt stuff with their packed files are always false so I exclude them once I have the structure of the files.

Its why a lot of devs are moving to python probably helped by the fact nvda is written in it and everyone wants to see what it can do.

To be honest the only thing one can use is virustotal and I really wish I could have virustotal as my virus scanner of choice and protection system because it uses more than 1 source.

With fibre and the like it should be possible.

I have also had inconsistancies with scanners and with some scans.

Ie its protection scan says its not but its shield says it is.

Its not happened to me but I don't take risks, I do know people on some of my networks who need to make sure they always have a backup.

If something goes down and you don't know, system doesn't reboot, so you just make it boot and you know what I mean.

Point is, if my scanner of choice is so noisy, I'm going to have to do something about it.

That means excluding the programs from being scanned.

If I was a hacker, my first port of call would be the exclude list and see what is excluded and oh dear, there you go.

I don't have my backup drives on all day long but still.

Its a pitty there is no actual exclusion list for certain things, obviously a universal one would be to huge but, still.

There is of course the tear it all down and build it back up approach but its just about the only approach if it really goes.

I could say its not good enough but there you go.

Round and round and round we will go till one of us stops.

This topic and rant has graced many lists and forums, my blog, the blog a tech friend and I use and others.

The solution is that there isn't exactly one that really works we just have to keep dodging bullets and hoping we don't screw something up by excluding the wrong folder.

I for example will probably keep old nvda about so at least things will work and exclude it from being scanned just in case.

But its a poor solution.

I think its supposed to be fixed so lets hope it is.



On 8/02/2020 3:23 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 05:04 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
If it wants to flag them as "suspicious because XYZ" (and give reasoning) that's one thing, but don't categorically assert it's a virus when you don't know that.
 
If they were to do that, many would ignore the warning (if they could).   This happens.  It will always happen.  Organizations such as NVAccess report (as do users) and it gets resolved.  The system isn't perfect, but I'd prefer the occasional false positive to a single false negative.

Someone such as yourself, Quentin, certainly knows that error messages of any sort are not typically very refined in what they present.  Ideally, they'd be a lot more descriptive and accurate, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Tyler Spivey
 

It takes about a minute of trying alpine to realize I can navigate in flat review sometimes, but moving to the bottom does something weird and puts me back at the top. And this time, flat review didn't work.


My guess is it's using an API that NVDA doesn't support in flat review, or it's being used weirdly so NVDA has a hard time picking it up.


The best course of action from here would be to report it as an issue on the NVDA tracker. Noone can do anything about it unless they know about it.

On 2/7/2020 3:01 PM, Jason White via Groups.Io wrote:

If you can run it in a terminal, the recently improved console support for NVDA (coming in 2019.3) may make the experience better.

 

I haven’t used Pine/Alpine for a very long time indeed. At some point I switched to Mutt, and found it to be preferable – at least as a text-based email client.

 

From: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Arlene <nedster66@...>
Reply-To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Date: Friday, February 7, 2020 at 12:59
To: "nvda@nvda.groups.io" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance

 

Not sure if they made any developments for windows. I know it is or still is used for Linux.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: February 7, 2020 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance

 

How well does Alpine work for Windows?  I believe I tried it and its

predecessor Pine and it wasn't very accessible.

 

 

 

On 2/7/2020 12:31 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:

> Hi and thanks for the response.

> I am using it on Windows 7 and Windows 10 on two different computers. 

> Alpine version is 2.20.

> I invoke Alpine from the Windows command line and not through a

> terminal program.

> Chris

> On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Tyler Spivey via Groups.Io wrote:

>> What version of alpine are you running, on what operating system? Are

>> you using it through a terminal program or native?

>> 

>> 

>> On 2/7/2020 9:12 AM, Christopher Gray wrote:

>>>  Hi:

>>> 

>>>  I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now,

>>> once last

>>>  June, again Wednesday.  If there is a better list or means of

>>> asking than

>>>  this list, just let me know that.

>>> 

>>>  I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to

>>>  diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and

>>>  Window-Eyes.

>>> 

>>>  Chris

>>> 

>>>  ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>>>  Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000

>>>  From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris@...>

>>>  Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>>  To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>  Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd)

>>> 

>>>  Hello:

>>> 

>>>  I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related

>>>  discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows

>>> with

>>>  NVDA.  I really need some assistance with this issue to make a full

>>>  transition to NVDA.

>>> 

>>>  Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows. It is not

>>>  exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly

>>> works.

>>>  For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in the

>>> text,

>>>  but there is no braille.  Sometimes while editing, when I move down

>>> line

>>>  by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line by line after

>>>  moving down.  In the menu of messages, I can't see the messages at

>>> all.

>>> 

>>>  Thanks.

>>> 

>>>  Chris

>>> 

>>>  ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>>>  Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000

>>>  From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris@...>

>>>  Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>>  To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>  Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico

>>> 

>>>  Hi:

>>> 

>>>  I use two fairly old pieces of software:  the Alpine email client; the

>>>  Pico text

>>>  editor.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this

>>> software to

>>>  work

>>>  with NVDA.  It only shows a blank screen for me.

>>> 

>>>  Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs

>>> have

>>>  the

>>>  same screen issues since they were written by the same source.  I

>>> haven't

>>>  attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.

>>> 

>>>  Is there a way I can try to diagnose this?  Or, might somebody be

>>> willing

>>>  to

>>>  look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?

>>> 

>>>  Many thanks.

>>> 

>>>  Chris

>>> 

>>> 

>>>  ****************************************

>>>  Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri

>>> Council

>>>  of the Blind in

>>>  your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help

>>> you

>>>  with this.

>>> 

>>>  ----------------------------------------

>>>  Christopher Gray, Executive Director

>>>  Missouri Council of the Blind

>>> 

>>>  5453 Chippewa

>>>  St. Louis, MO 63109

>>>  Phone:     (314) 832-7172

>>>  Toll-free: (800) 342-5632

>>>  Fax:       (314) 832-7796

>>> 

>>>  Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?

>>>  Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global

>>> Voice,

>>>  Chris and Don.

>>>  Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.

>>>  Pacific

>>>  Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.

>>>  Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to

>>>  Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.

>>>  You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!

>>>  Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> ****************************************

> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri

> Council of the Blind in

> your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help

> you with this.

> ----------------------------------------

> Christopher Gray, Executive Director

> Missouri Council of the Blind

> 5453 Chippewa

> St. Louis, MO 63109

> Phone:     (314) 832-7172

> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632

> Fax:       (314) 832-7796

> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?

> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global

> Voice, Chris and Don.

> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.

> Pacific

> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.

> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to

> Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.

> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!

> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

>

 

--

They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.

They ask: "How Happy are You?"

I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

 

 

 

 


Re: My Seika Touchme5 no longer works with NVDA

Mallard
 

Hello Cordelia,


Thanks. I'lltry and contact them, but I had no luck a couple of years ago about some other issue I had, so I'm afraid it's goingto be a bit of a waste of time.


Touchme5 works great in Linux, so I might try and see if installing BRLTTY for Windows solvesthe problem, at least temorarily.


Take care,

Ollie

On 07/02/2020 22:50, Cordelia Scharpf wrote:
Hi, Ollie:

I don't know/use the Seika Braile display. However, you might ask its manufacturer if they have released a new patch that would be compatible with the new NVDA software. If they have not done so yet, it is high time to alert them of this problem and see it fixed.

Best of luck,
Cordelia


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mallard
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 10:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] My Seika Touchme5 no longer works with NVDA


Hello all,


I'm using NVDA Alphas. For qite some time now, my Seika Touchme5 no
longer works as expected.

I'm unable to scroll horizontally, whetehr I set it to Automatic or Seika.


Are tehre any tips to make this work?


I have to use an old and battered pm 40 by freedom Scientific, which has
a number of cells with dots that either don't come up or don't go down
when needed. This makes it really difficult to read in different languages.


thanks for any help ou can provide.


Ciao,

Ollie






Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Jason White
 

If you can run it in a terminal, the recently improved console support for NVDA (coming in 2019.3) may make the experience better.

 

I haven’t used Pine/Alpine for a very long time indeed. At some point I switched to Mutt, and found it to be preferable – at least as a text-based email client.

 

From: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Arlene <nedster66@...>
Reply-To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Date: Friday, February 7, 2020 at 12:59
To: "nvda@nvda.groups.io" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance

 

Not sure if they made any developments for windows. I know it is or still is used for Linux.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: February 7, 2020 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance

 

How well does Alpine work for Windows?  I believe I tried it and its

predecessor Pine and it wasn't very accessible.

 

 

 

On 2/7/2020 12:31 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:

> Hi and thanks for the response.

> I am using it on Windows 7 and Windows 10 on two different computers. 

> Alpine version is 2.20.

> I invoke Alpine from the Windows command line and not through a

> terminal program.

> Chris

> On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Tyler Spivey via Groups.Io wrote:

>> What version of alpine are you running, on what operating system? Are

>> you using it through a terminal program or native?

>> 

>> 

>> On 2/7/2020 9:12 AM, Christopher Gray wrote:

>>>  Hi:

>>> 

>>>  I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now,

>>> once last

>>>  June, again Wednesday.  If there is a better list or means of

>>> asking than

>>>  this list, just let me know that.

>>> 

>>>  I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to

>>>  diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and

>>>  Window-Eyes.

>>> 

>>>  Chris

>>> 

>>>  ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>>>  Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000

>>>  From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris@...>

>>>  Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>>  To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>  Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd)

>>> 

>>>  Hello:

>>> 

>>>  I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related

>>>  discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows

>>> with

>>>  NVDA.  I really need some assistance with this issue to make a full

>>>  transition to NVDA.

>>> 

>>>  Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows. It is not

>>>  exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly

>>> works.

>>>  For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in the

>>> text,

>>>  but there is no braille.  Sometimes while editing, when I move down

>>> line

>>>  by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line by line after

>>>  moving down.  In the menu of messages, I can't see the messages at

>>> all.

>>> 

>>>  Thanks.

>>> 

>>>  Chris

>>> 

>>>  ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>>>  Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000

>>>  From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris@...>

>>>  Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>>  To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>  Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico

>>> 

>>>  Hi:

>>> 

>>>  I use two fairly old pieces of software:  the Alpine email client; the

>>>  Pico text

>>>  editor.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this

>>> software to

>>>  work

>>>  with NVDA.  It only shows a blank screen for me.

>>> 

>>>  Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs

>>> have

>>>  the

>>>  same screen issues since they were written by the same source.  I

>>> haven't

>>>  attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.

>>> 

>>>  Is there a way I can try to diagnose this?  Or, might somebody be

>>> willing

>>>  to

>>>  look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?

>>> 

>>>  Many thanks.

>>> 

>>>  Chris

>>> 

>>> 

>>>  ****************************************

>>>  Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri

>>> Council

>>>  of the Blind in

>>>  your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help

>>> you

>>>  with this.

>>> 

>>>  ----------------------------------------

>>>  Christopher Gray, Executive Director

>>>  Missouri Council of the Blind

>>> 

>>>  5453 Chippewa

>>>  St. Louis, MO 63109

>>>  Phone:     (314) 832-7172

>>>  Toll-free: (800) 342-5632

>>>  Fax:       (314) 832-7796

>>> 

>>>  Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?

>>>  Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global

>>> Voice,

>>>  Chris and Don.

>>>  Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.

>>>  Pacific

>>>  Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.

>>>  Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to

>>>  Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.

>>>  You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!

>>>  Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> ****************************************

> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri

> Council of the Blind in

> your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help

> you with this.

> ----------------------------------------

> Christopher Gray, Executive Director

> Missouri Council of the Blind

> 5453 Chippewa

> St. Louis, MO 63109

> Phone:     (314) 832-7172

> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632

> Fax:       (314) 832-7796

> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?

> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global

> Voice, Chris and Don.

> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.

> Pacific

> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.

> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to

> Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.

> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!

> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

>

 

--

They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.

They ask: "How Happy are You?"

I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

 

 

 

 


Re: My Seika Touchme5 no longer works with NVDA

Cordelia Scharpf
 

Hi, Ollie:

I don't know/use the Seika Braile display. However, you might ask its manufacturer if they have released a new patch that would be compatible with the new NVDA software. If they have not done so yet, it is high time to alert them of this problem and see it fixed.

Best of luck,
Cordelia

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mallard
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 10:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] My Seika Touchme5 no longer works with NVDA


Hello all,


I'm using NVDA Alphas. For qite some time now, my Seika Touchme5 no
longer works as expected.

I'm unable to scroll horizontally, whetehr I set it to Automatic or Seika.


Are tehre any tips to make this work?


I have to use an old and battered pm 40 by freedom Scientific, which has
a number of cells with dots that either don't come up or don't go down
when needed. This makes it really difficult to read in different languages.


thanks for any help ou can provide.


Ciao,

Ollie


My Seika Touchme5 no longer works with NVDA

Mallard
 

Hello all,


I'm using NVDA Alphas. For qite some time now, my Seika Touchme5 no longer works as expected.

I'm unable to scroll horizontally, whetehr I set it to Automatic or Seika.


Are tehre any tips to make this work?


I have to use an old and battered pm 40 by freedom Scientific, which has a number of cells with dots that either don't come up or don't go down when needed. This makes it really difficult to read in different languages.


thanks for any help ou can provide.


Ciao,

Ollie


Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Dan Beaver
 

Maybe none of us have any experience with them?  I tend not to answer if I know nothing about a subject.  Not meaning to ignore just nothing to contribute.


Dan Beaver

On 2/7/2020 12:12 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:
Hi:

I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now, once last June, again Wednesday.  If there is a better list or means of asking than this list, just let me know that.

I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and Window-Eyes.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris@...>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Hello:

I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows with NVDA.  I really need some assistance with this issue to make a full transition to NVDA.

Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows.  It is not exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly works.  For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in the text, but there is no braille.  Sometimes while editing, when I move down line by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line by line after moving down.  In the menu of messages, I can't see the messages at all.

Thanks.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris@...>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico

Hi:

I use two fairly old pieces of software:  the Alpine email client; the Pico text
editor.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this software to work
with NVDA.  It only shows a blank screen for me.

Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs have the
same screen issues since they were written by the same source.  I haven't
attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.

Is there a way I can try to diagnose this?  Or, might somebody be willing to
look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?

Many thanks.

Chris


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone:     (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax:       (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.










-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: NVDA not coming on when I start the computer

Arlene
 

Betsy, here’s a tip I can give you. If NVDA doesn’t start up like it should. You start it up. Then go to where you create your hot key. If it’s unchecked. Then check it again. Then restart the computer and if it starts up like it should. You are in the chips.  Or you can unload NVDA and reload it using the hot key.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: February 7, 2020 7:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA not coming on when I start the computer

 

Until the latest update, NVDA would start speaking as soon as it is

loaded once the laptop is completely on. Now I seem to have to do the

command as if I was wanting to restart NVDA.  I do not know how else to

explain this.

 

 

On 2/7/2020 9:34 AM, Vaibhav Bhandari wrote:

> Could you explain further what did you mean by "Your laptop is no

> longer coming up with speech with the latest update of NVDA?" I was

> unable to understand the problem.

> On 2/7/20, Betsy Grenevitch <blindangel61@...> wrote:

>> I believe I remember this topic coming up recently but must have missed

>> the response. My laptop is no longer coming up with speech with the

>> latest update of NVDA. I am wondering if Microsoft Teams is the problem

>> but do not know how to get rid of that program or what it is even for.

>> It started coming up when I started using Windows 10. Are there any

>> solutions to getting rid of it and if that is not causing the problem

>> what can I do to fix NVDA not coning up on its own.

>> 

>> 

>> Thanks so much. At least there is a workaround by restarting NVDA but I

>> know it should not work this way.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> --

>> Betsy Grenevitch

>> 678-862-3876

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

--

Betsy Grenevitch

678-862-3876

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA not coming on when I start the computer

Arlene
 

Yes, often when you beta test publicly and if you update. Sometimes startup becomes unchecked. I’ve seen it with NVDA and other screen reader.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: February 7, 2020 7:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA not coming on when I start the computer

 

I figured it out. I guess when the update took place it set it not to turn on NVDA when the computer is starting. It is working now. 

 

On 2/7/2020 9:55 AM, Cohn, Jonathan wrote:

Well, since when you "restart" NVDA it is working normally for you, it sounds like you don't have a major issue with speech being completely disabled. I can assure you that Microsoft Teams will work with NVdA, so you don't need to worry about that. Are you sure that NVDA has actually started? Do you hear the Startup chime from NVDA? If you are hearing that chime but never get voice until starting NVDA from the run menu, then your best bet is to get the log file from NVDA and have somebody review it for errors.
Also, you might want to confirm with folks what NVDA Add ons you are running. 

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876

 


Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)

 

Christopher Gray wrote, at 12:32 PM today, " I invoke Alpine from the Windows command line and not through a terminal program."

Don't blame me if I take you at your word.

With this, I'm done.  If you want to continue to engage in putting good effort after bad, have at it.  Common sense dictates finding different products.  You can lead a horse to water . . .
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: Windows Explorer

Gene
 

Looking at it using object navigation and speech, the information appears to be in a line below the file or foldername.  Each piece of information is a different object.  I don't know how you move by object using a Braille display,  Using Speech, I move down to the child window, numpad insert, numpad 2, while I am on the name.  I can then move by object to the right and see all the items.
 
Of course, I can right arrow and hear the information while on the file name, using the main keyboard arrow keys but you evidently need another way and I would think object navigation can be used.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Pele West
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows Explorer

Hi David

Thanks for writing. I am still on Windows 7 but due to upgrade to
Windows 10 shortly.

I can find out the  information using Left and Right Arrow, but I have
not found a way of getting the information to appear across my braille
display. I am using Detail View and have the Tool Tips turned on.

Pele




Re: Say product name and version compatible with Python3

 

Hello Patrick,

Thanks for the update of the add-on! It was one of the ones that I was going to miss with NVDA 2019.3, but now I don't have to worry at least for it (smile).

I do a lot of program testing and getting a program's version number easy and quickly is very useful to me.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 7.2.2020 г. в 18:41, Patrick ZAJDA via Groups.Io написа:

Hello,


SayProductNameAndVersion has been updated to be compatible with NVDA 2019.3.

It is stille compatible with NVDA 2017.3.


Download link:


https://github.com/Nardol/SayProductNameAndVersion/releases/download/2020.02/sayProductNameAndVersion-2020.02.nvda-addon


Best regards,


--
Patrick ZAJDA


Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Christopher Gray
 

Brian:

There are too many inaccuracies in your thinking on this issue. We're talking about a Windows-based program, not a command line program. You are confusilng Pine for Linux with Alpine for Windows.

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Brian Vogel via Groups.Io wrote:

The assertion that Windows ports are easily sourced, let alone actively maintained has already been refuted by others.  Your mission should be findings replacements.  It's that simple.

Command line text editor under Windows with screen reader support, when there are myriad other options?  It's not going to happen.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

*Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.*

~ Madonna


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Christopher Gray
 

Alpine is extremely accessible under Windows. There are 2 or 3 settings you must change, otherwise it's excellent.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Ron Canazzi via Groups.Io wrote:

How well does Alpine work for Windows?  I believe I tried it and its predecessor Pine and it wasn't very accessible.



On 2/7/2020 12:31 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:
Hi and thanks for the response.

I am using it on Windows 7 and Windows 10 on two different computers.
Alpine version is 2.20.

I invoke Alpine from the Windows command line and not through a terminal
program.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Tyler Spivey via Groups.Io wrote:

What version of alpine are you running, on what operating system? Are you using it through a terminal program or native?
On 2/7/2020 9:12 AM, Christopher Gray wrote:
 Hi:
 I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now, once last
 June, again Wednesday.  If there is a better list or means of asking than
 this list, just let me know that.
 I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to
 diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and
 Window-Eyes.
 Chris
 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000
 From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
 Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
 Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd)
 Hello:
 I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related
 discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows with
 NVDA.  I really need some assistance with this issue to make a full
 transition to NVDA.
 Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows. It is not
 exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly works.
 For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in the text,
 but there is no braille.  Sometimes while editing, when I move down line
 by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line by line after
 moving down.  In the menu of messages, I can't see the messages at all.
 Thanks.
 Chris
 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000
 From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
 Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
 Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico
 Hi:
 I use two fairly old pieces of software:  the Alpine email client; the
 Pico text
 editor.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this software to
 work
 with NVDA.  It only shows a blank screen for me.
 Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs have
 the
 same screen issues since they were written by the same source.  I haven't
 attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.
 Is there a way I can try to diagnose this?  Or, might somebody be willing
 to
 look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?
 Many thanks.
 Chris
 ****************************************
 Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
 of the Blind in
 your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you
 with this.
 ----------------------------------------
 Christopher Gray, Executive Director
 Missouri Council of the Blind
 5453 Chippewa
 St. Louis, MO 63109
 Phone:     (314) 832-7172
 Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
 Fax:       (314) 832-7796
 Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
 Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
 Chris and Don.
 Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
 Pacific
 Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
 Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
 Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
 You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
 Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you
with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone:     (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax:       (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Christopher Gray
 

As I said before, there is a Windows version.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Arlene via Groups.Io wrote:

You’d probably have to ask the developer to somehow develop a windows
version along with linix.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Christopher Gray
Sent: February 7, 2020 9:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance

Patches pretty much relate to the Linux/Unix version, not the Windows
version.


Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Arlene via Groups.Io wrote:


Yes, I can’t remember it’s home page. If you google it, there’s a
frequently asked question page. Also there are new and old Patches  you
can

download to your Program Alpine.  If you can’t use it you can let the
developer know and he can help you. I googled the info last night after
you

asked on Wednesday. Due to a reason I had to google something else.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Christopher Gray
Sent: February 7, 2020 9:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance
My answer to thkat is that Alpine and Pico are currentlym maintained.  If
help
from their developer(s) is needed, it would be given.
Chris
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Brian
Vogel via Groups.Io wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 , Christopher Gray wrote:
I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the
Pico
text editor.
The fact is that a lot of "fairly old pieces of software" were not
written with accessibility in mind at all, and if they are not being
maintained and updated, are very unlikely to become accessible with any
screen reader that does not already work with them.
Screen reader developers, and developers in general, have little enough
time to keep up with ongoing changes that they cannot ignore if they wish
to remain working with currently supported operating systems and
software.

Any expectation that they can, or should, reach back into the distant
past

for software no longer maintained, or even maintained but where the
developers of said software have done nothing to make it compatible with
screen readers, is unreasonable and unrealistic.
--
Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363
*Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.*
~ Madonna
****************************************
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****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you
with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone:     (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax:       (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.



****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Christopher Gray
 

Hi Ben:

I appreciate your willingness to help. I can probably send you the install software you need and will check on this, perhaps writing you off list if that's ok.

I don't think this is a hard job or an unreasonable request for this reason. Developers at both Virgo/Cobra and Window-Eyes did have to accommodate Alpine and Pico many years back. In both cases, the developers there told me this was a trivial fix/change and took less than an hour to implement.

Of course, things could be different today in NVDA's means of doing things. However, I still don't think it is unreasonable to ask that this at least be examined.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, ben via Groups.Io wrote:

Hi Chris,


i am not an NVDA developer, so I might be completely wrong, but I think this might be harder than you think to fix. The main problem you have is Pico and Alpine are hard to find online. At least I can't find Windows ports. Also, it depends if these programs are command line based as they are on Linux, or are they actual graphical versions. I have used Alpine and Nano under Linux, but it has been a while. If I can find the Windows versions, I will take a look and I will test them with a couple other screen readers.


I wish I could help more; you might have better luck filing an issue on GitHub.


Ben




****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)

 

The assertion that Windows ports are easily sourced, let alone actively maintained has already been refuted by others.  Your mission should be findings replacements.  It's that simple.

Command line text editor under Windows with screen reader support, when there are myriad other options?  It's not going to happen.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna