Thank you I am the same way. If I don't want it to read anything it should
give me that option.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard
Bartholomew
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?



Hi,



Without wishing to sound too glib.choice is the reason why this is
desirable. For example, I prefer cursoring down a mail as it gives me more
control over skipping bits I don't want to hear, eg URLs, rather than
wasting time listening to it all!



Cheers

Richard Bartholomew





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: 10 May 2020 19:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?



No, there is no way. I'm wondering why you ask for it. Purpose of opening a
mail is to read it..at least for me.

But feel free to log an issue with NVDA.



Cheers,

Ralf



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 18:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?



Is there anyway to prevent this?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?



Yup, that's normal that it reads the first line.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 12:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?



That is unchecked in outlook 2016 it still reads the first line.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 6:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?



NVDA-Control-B, Alt-S, uncheck it.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 01:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in
outlook when open them?



Hi, is there a way to prevent NVDA from automatically reading an outlook
message when you open it? If so how?

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

to read it in your preferred mode by default.

And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences.  This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle.

There are constant complaints about how complex the preferences settings are for a wide variety of programs, but those complexities are the direct result of trying to allow individual users maximum control over how things work.  And even then, default choices have to be made, none of which satisfy everyone.

There are times when giving no options makes far more sense than giving many, when exiting the default behavior is a single keystroke away.  You (any you) may argue whether that's the case here, and that's perfectly legitimate discussion, but it's very hard to argue the general principle.  Option bloat is a very serious issue to be considered and it's often hard to strike the right balance between "all" or "nothing" that makes most happy.  Everyone will never be happy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:16 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

Without wishing to sound too glib

Same here, but what's so difficult about hitting CTRL to shut NVDA up as soon as you open an e-mail message, then use whatever navigation method you deem optimal to go through the message from there?  I have to shut up NVDA or JAWS on many occasions, for many reasons, and my reach for CTRL or ESC to accomplish same is almost automatic now.

I, like Ralf, cannot fathom why one would open a message if not to read it.  And what is ideal as far as how its read will vary from person to person.  But the default of "start reading the message" makes a lot of sense, at least to me.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

Hi,

Without wishing to sound too glib…choice is the reason why this is desirable.  For example, I prefer cursoring down a mail as it gives me more control over skipping bits I don’t want to hear, eg URLs, rather than wasting time listening to it all!

Cheers

Richard Bartholomew

No, there is no way. I’m wondering why you ask for it. Purpose of opening a mail is to read it….at least for me.

But feel free to log an issue with NVDA.

Cheers,

  Ralf

Is there anyway to prevent this?

Yup, that’s normal that it reads the first line.

That is unchecked in outlook 2016 it still reads the first line.

NVDA-Control-B, Alt-S, uncheck it.

Hi, is there a way to prevent NVDA from automatically reading an outlook message when you open it?  If so how?

No, there is no way. I’m wondering why you ask for it. Purpose of opening a mail is to read it….at least for me.

But feel free to log an issue with NVDA.

Cheers,

  Ralf

Is there anyway to prevent this?

Yup, that’s normal that it reads the first line.

That is unchecked in outlook 2016 it still reads the first line.

NVDA-Control-B, Alt-S, uncheck it.

Hi, is there a way to prevent NVDA from automatically reading an outlook message when you open it?  If so how?

Yes, it did, and the idiots that redid the site used an unlabeled button, with the icon of an abstract person's head and shoulders, as the account button.  What's even weirder is that once I click on it, and expand it, I can't seem to enter in to the expanded fields, which include where you enter your e-mail address and password.

I remember playing with this site not long ago when you were asking about it then, and I know that button was a text button labeled, "Account."

Just FYI, if I start using the b shortcut, it's the second button.  The first reads "clickable button" and is the search button.  The second, which reads simply "button" is the account button.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 

Hi David,

I do get all three of these issues, but they are of minor concern to me.  The one thing you didn't mention is the reading of the underlying address when you tab to or arrow to a clickable link in an open message.  This is really annoying to me and happens one hundred percent of the time.


On 5/10/2020 3:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Hello.

The release notes for TB 68.8.0 indicates that the extra messages heard by screen readers has been addressed. While the situation may have improved I don't believe that this issue has been totally addressed.

1. When pressing enter to open a message NVDA begins to announce something which sounds like "loading message" but the announcement is usually cut off fairly quickly. I suspect that this could be happening more on slower machines.

2. When a message that I am composing is being automatically saved to my drafts folder the status message indicating this is clearly being announced, as in "copying message to drafts folder." Should this be happening?

3. When I press ctrl-enter to send a message I sometimes hear the beginning of a status announcement but it gets cut off very quickly and I'm not able to determine what it's trying to tell me. I guess I should load the speech viewer to better capture some of what is being announced but I don't recall hearing any of this information prior to this problem initially being introduced.

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 02:42 PM, Luke Davis wrote:

Does a sighted person see some kind of indication that this is happening?

If said content is coming from the status bar, then yes, at least provided the status bar is set to be viewed, and it is by default.

The difference being that most of us couldn't give a flying rat's patootie that this is happening, and would never even notice it.  This is one of the difficulties with accessibility in that, for things like the status bar, it tends to be an "all or nothing" affair within a given class of message.  If this is bothersome, requesting that the "copying message to drafts folder" be put in a class below that which would be seen by the screen reader is what would get rid of it.  I don't know exactly how that's done, but the developers do, as the screen reader does not read each and every thing that occurs in the status bar.

This would be a feature request as opposed to a bug report, or at least I'd consider it a feature change, as one could argue that either state is better than the other, depending on one's personal preferences.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 

Here's the direct link to filing a TB bug. The developers are not on this list.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Thunderbird

Sarah,

            I know what you mean.  But, where money is involved and there are sales to be lost, sometimes a nudge is all it takes.  There's very little point in not extending minimal effort (and labeling buttons is about as minimal as it comes) to retain even a small market segment.  And using the, "I can't buy from you since this change," angle is well worth doing.  If they won't make things accessible on principle, they may if losing money is involved.   And, in the end, the underlying motivation is not relevant, the end result is.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 01:54 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I'm not happy that they changed the site

And I hope you've written to their support expressing this displeasure (as well as telling them that they need to include labels on all buttons, whether said labels are presented visually or not).

I instantly understood what's going on, as the convention they used is, well, a common convention.  It's what they omitted in terms of making that common convention accessible, which is usually part and parcel of it, that's really inexcusable in this day and age.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019