Date   

Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Gene
 

Today, I wanted to change the setting in Firefox about how it would work with history. I wanted to use the combo box to have it use custom settings. But every time I would change the setting, even after opening the combo box, a dialog would come up telling me I would have to restart the program for the setting to take effect. I used object navigation, after opening the combo box with alt down arrow, to see the options without triggering the dialog and I selected the one I wanted by working with the object. I don't remember if I used the mouse option or the perform default action option. Screen review was useless. I wouldn't have been able to work with the combo box without object navigation.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Le Baudour
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2020 5:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hi,

one use that doesn't seem to be mentioned so far is when using simple
navigation triggers events you don't want, that happens with some web
pages, with other workarounds - The one concrete case i encounter
fequently is visual studio, for instance when navigating through the
category tree in options, some categories may take quite a while to
load., so using object navigation to explore and only select what I need
is much less annoying.

-- patrick


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Patrick Le Baudour
 

Hi,

one use that doesn't seem to be mentioned so far is when using simple navigation triggers events you don't want, that happens with some web pages, with other workarounds - The one concrete case i encounter fequently is visual studio, for instance when navigating through the category tree in options, some categories may take quite a while to load., so using object navigation to explore and only select what I need is much less annoying.

-- patrick


Re: Speech Dictionaries: Changing How Superscripted Tex Is Read

 

Have you looked at and installed either the Access8Math and/or Lambda Add-On (if you're using braille) and/or MathPlayer?

There is really no reasonable way that I know of to do what you want unless the content is created in MathML or similar or identifed as "being math" so that one of the previously mentioned add-ons can read the content as such.  It's been quite a while since I had to deal with mathematics and a screen reader, and I'm sure other members will be able to offer more focused instructions.

Subscripting and superscripting is just too common otherwise to presume its presence is necessarily mathematical notation.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Speech Dictionaries: Changing How Superscripted Tex Is Read

Bhavya shah
 

Dear all,

In reading mathematic content, I am not a fan of NVDA, with reporting
of subscripts and superscripts enabled, reading something like
area=pi*r superscript 2 baseline as opposed to just area=pi*r raised
to 2 or area=pi*r square. Superscript and baseline are large words
themselves and make it difficult to catch the number squeezed in
between but which is the exponent I actually care about. Is there some
way of using regular expressions in NVDA's speech dictionaries to make
all superscripted text to be read not as superscript {text} baseline
but as raised to {text} power? For now, since the words superscript
and baseline are not too common, I am considering just making
corresponding replacements for them in the Speech Dictionaries.
However, if there is a better method, I would love to know.

I would truly appreciate any assistance in this matter.

Thanks.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah
Stanford University | Class of 2024
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

Amir
 

Unfortunately that doesn't cut it for me although I understand the benefits. When I'm at my computer and hit Refresh, I fully expect to get the latest articles not what the web-based readers might dictate. And if you happen to depend on the speed aspect for work, such an access becomes more essential. Honestly I don't share the articles -- even the ones I read for leisure. Even if I do, I share them via email which works well with Internet Explorer. Nowadays even most Edge/Chrome RSS extensions also support full-fledged article sharing so that's a nonissue if the need arises. I also use Lire on my iPhone for RSS stuff. It supports full-fledged sharing and its stand-alone mode truly rocks.
 
Best,
Amir


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

Cristóbal
 

I won’t argue on which version, be it standalone or web based is faster at feed refreshing since that’s beyond my knowledge.

The only thing I’d say to that though is… tradeoffs.

I mean, I work from home and am on some sort of device all day. Be it a PC or my iPhone. I’m not saying that refreshing an RSS feed every minute or what have you isn’t essential, but is there a huge difference between one and 5 minutes? If something’s so urgent, there are other methods to get that info almost instantaneously like push/email alerts via an app either on one’s phone or PC that are probably better suited for those types of scenarios.

The flexibility that this or I guess any other web based service allows for things like sharing, synchronizing, saving etc in my opinion are worth the possible 4 or 5 minute delay as opposed to a stand alone solution.

For example, the wife and I do retail and wholesale arbitrage. While I do have some RSS feeds for deal sites, I use other methods like push and email alerts and other bot-like solutions to get notified of price drops and or sales/liquidations. I would not rely or even expect RSS to be able to keep up with that constant change.

Someone mentioned Smart RSS earlier. I remember GHacks reviewing this program a few months ago. Funny enough, I came across the review via my feed entry on The Old Reader. Looks like the commenters weren’t overly impressed by it. https://www.ghacks.net/2020/03/10/smart-rss-reader-is-a-feed-reader-extension-for-firefox-and-chrome/

And to reiterate one of the original points, The Old Reader is completely screen reader accessible.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2020 11:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

 

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 02:44 PM, Amir wrote:

That's why they're not suitable for me especially for work-related tasks.

-
I have no idea what you do, and the following is not aimed at you, personally, but if "within the hour" is not fast enough, then that's a business I don't want to be in.

As a former software developer I learned to despise artificial deadlines, and also learned that 99 times out of 100, "It will still be there tomorrow, possible for multiple tomorrows," applied to so-called time critical tasks.

I got out, among other reasons, because there was never time to do it right to begin with, but always plenty of time to do it over just so long as something, anything, was presented by someone's designated deadline that was completely disconnected from actual need.

One of my favorite quotations, whether you liked the source or not:

     I reject get-it-done, make-it-happen thinking. I want to slow things down so I understand them better.

             ~ Gov. Jerry Brown

Most times, you can slow them way down, and get a far better solution/result.

Sorry for getting all meta on everyone.  It's a hot and lazy Sunday afternoon.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Gene
 

My experience is that I can't necessarily predict where it will be useful, that sometimes screen review is better and that sometimes object navigation is better. If one doesn't work, I try the other but I don't necessarily have an opinion at the outset.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Jackie (and many others, since I last posted),

Thank you very much for concrete examples of where, and how, you are using Object Navigation. It's so much easier to formulate an educated guess of where it might be helpful/appropriate when you encounter a situation if you've seen other situations where it was.
In the 3.x version of Pontes Media Downloader, I get no information using screen review. But if I move through objects, moving right or left with numpad insert 6 and right arrow or numpad 4 using left arrow, I can move through all sorts of fields. I generally don't move in this way through the program because usually the only thing I want to see is the status line, I can move there using control s and then I can read the field if I want to repeat it with num;pad 8 for read current line of the current object. But its an example.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Jackie (and many others, since I last posted),

Thank you very much for concrete examples of where, and how, you are using Object Navigation. It's so much easier to formulate an educated guess of where it might be helpful/appropriate when you encounter a situation if you've seen other situations where it was.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

Amir
 

<LOL> -- very interesting. I fully understand your perspective but if you work as a journalist and operate in a newsroom, you have to be able to receive timely updates for everything including speeches, election results, explosions, pandemic updates, resolutions, etc. That's why my work-related RSS feeds are updated every 15 minutes in Internet Explorer (the minimum value allowed), and many times I also refresh a couple of them in 5 to 10-minute intervals.
 
Best,
Amir


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

Jackie (and many others, since I last posted),

Thank you very much for concrete examples of where, and how, you are using Object Navigation.  It's so much easier to formulate an educated guess of where it might be helpful/appropriate when you encounter a situation if you've seen other situations where it was.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

 

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 02:44 PM, Amir wrote:
That's why they're not suitable for me especially for work-related tasks.
-
I have no idea what you do, and the following is not aimed at you, personally, but if "within the hour" is not fast enough, then that's a business I don't want to be in.

As a former software developer I learned to despise artificial deadlines, and also learned that 99 times out of 100, "It will still be there tomorrow, possible for multiple tomorrows," applied to so-called time critical tasks.

I got out, among other reasons, because there was never time to do it right to begin with, but always plenty of time to do it over just so long as something, anything, was presented by someone's designated deadline that was completely disconnected from actual need.

One of my favorite quotations, whether you liked the source or not:

     I reject get-it-done, make-it-happen thinking. I want to slow things down so I understand them better.

             ~ Gov. Jerry Brown

Most times, you can slow them way down, and get a far better solution/result.

Sorry for getting all meta on everyone.  It's a hot and lazy Sunday afternoon.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

Amir
 

That's the case with stand-alone RSS feed readers -- you can even set the refresh rate to "1 minute" with many of them, and, of course, you can refresh manually whenever desired. However, web-based readers such as The Old Reader and Feedly don't give you such a fine-tuning especially with their free tiers. The Old Reader clearly mentions that the Premium tier allows for faster refresh rates although I don't know how fast it might be. That's why they're not suitable for me especially for work-related tasks. Even with Lire on my iPhone I tend to use it in Stand-alone mode so as to get faster refresh rates without having to be limited by the dictates of its supported web-based services.
 
Best,
Amir


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

Cristóbal
 

So, now I had to look it up. It looks like I was indeed grandfathered in at the $2 a month.

What will you get with The Old Reader Premium?
- Full-text search
- Faster feed refresh times
- Up to 500 Subscriptions
- 6 months of post storage
- Instapaper and Readability integration
- Early access to new features

What will it cost?
The Old Reader Premium will cost $3/month or $30/year. However, for the next 2 weeks (or up to 5,000 accounts) we’ll be offering the service for $2/month or $20/year and we will lock you into that price for a minimum of the next 2 years. This is our way of saying thanks to our existing users and hopefully getting the Premium service off to a great start.

This post was back in 2014 so I guess I’ve been saving that extra buck for the past four years or so… Yea me.

Again though, you don’t have to pay.

Do I have to upgrade?
No! 90% of our users can continue on for free just as they are today. However, users with more than 100 feeds will need to upgrade to premium. Otherwise, all functionality will remain available to free accounts. We also offer a 2 week trial period for the premium service and will even allow that trial period to get extended for those still interested in moving to Premium.

https://blog.theoldreader.com/post/76417559063/the-old-reader-premium

I’m sure there are other services out there that offer similar features with paid and free tears, so it’s not like these guys have some sort of special sauce or anything. This is simply the service I’ve found to cover most of my needs. I am a heavy RSS user with multiple devices that I may use throughout the day to keep up on the news.

The Old Reader’s even got keyboard commands similar to how Twitter.com and Reddit.com an a lot of other web based programs have. I don’t particularly make use of them, but they’re there if that’s your thing as well.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2020 10:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

 

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 01:41 PM, Amir wrote:

I feel I shouldn't have to pay $2 or more per month for a service

Is this for the premium service, or basic?   I'll admit the website isn't good about discussing this, but when I attempt the "Sign Up" process it mentions a 14-day trial of premium.  On a lot of these "premium versus basic" situations the cost is only if you want the premium features.

That would be good info to have.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Jackie
 

Hey Brian, I just came across this & thought it might help illustrate
the usefulness of object nav.

Right now, I'm struggling w/integrating Amazon S3 storage w/WordPress.
I found a book I thought might be able to help at:
https://www.manning.com/books/amazon-web-services-in-action-second-edition?a_bid=387245ad&a_aid=mwittig#toc

After the link that says "Click the table of contents to start
reading." you'll notice that there are links that do not announce
their contents. Now, I realize that you can see, so all you'd need to
do is to look, but, since most of us don't have that luxury, & since
NVDA isn't reading these by default, I use the Move to first contained
object key (NVDA+numpad2 or NVDA shift down arrow) to read the link's
url, which tells me the links represent the authors' social media
channels. Those are relatively unimportant, but this can help a great
deal as well w/other links that aren't announced. Hopefully w/this
concrete example, you can see how object nav is useful for NVDA users.

Please note that this posting in no way represents that I am endorsing
this or any other product, or that I have any financial interests in
same (which I don't).

On 8/7/20, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Brian
I understand you are using Object navigation in this case to gain knowledge
of how to use it but I thought I would make you aware of the Virtual Review
add-on. With Virtual Review installed, pressing NVDA+Ctrl+w when the About
window is in focus, will open a temporary textual window containing the
information from the About window you can’t access in situe using the
keyboard. You can arrow around the virtual review window to read the info
then press escape to dismiss it and return focus back to the About window
itself.

Cheers
Chris


from the In

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: 06 August 2020 23:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 06:35 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
You can’t use keyboard commands to look at various system information
displayed on that screen – you must use object navigation to read them.
-
Thank you for this specific example.   Again, this is very handy for me to
have as I now have a specific location where playing with object navigation
gets me a result I cannot get otherwise, and I've been told what that result
would be.  I just went through the list of items near the top of the About
pane and got "status green" for each after it was read, and had no idea of
exactly how I was supposed to (or even if I could) get to that information
via NVDA.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
          ~ Oscar Wilde






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Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

 

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 02:19 PM, Amir wrote:
updates don't come as fast or spontaneous as stand-alone readers which do the fetching of headlines and articles on their own.
-
My guess is that this is directly dependent on the default sync intervals each is using.  For many pieces of software like these, it's configurable so you can make the checks either more or less frequent.

Given that I do not use any of the things mentioned, this is based on experience with pretty much anything that has sync intervals, including e-mail clients.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

Amir
 

The Old Reader is free for up to 100 feeds and offers a Premium version with full-text search and up to 500 subscriptions and 6 months of post storage. The free tier also includes sponsored posts from time to time. It's also worth mentioning that with web-based feed services such as The Old Reader and Feedly which I've tried, updates don't come as fast or spontaneous as stand-alone readers which do the fetching of headlines and articles on their own. So if speed is a factor for you, web-based services are at least several minutes and at most an hour behind.
 
Best,
Amir


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

Cristóbal
 

Don’t know what to tell you, but at least for me, it’s not all that complicated. I’ve got my feeds sorted nicely into folders that are all displayed on one page. First it’s the folder then the individual feeds below it. I can view all feed entries by folder or feed. Oldest to newest and vice versa. Have them shown as a list view or full article. Share an article to Facebook or Twitter (in my case, I don’t have these services connected for this option), Save to Instapaper or Pocket or share  via email. Again, you don’t “have to pay). There is a free option. Paying the nominal amount is to unlock bonus features, be able to retrieve a larger number of feeds  and again, to support the service. I recall a few months ago a new RSS service based out of Germany being talked about. Like a lot of other services, they touted their privacy-centric approach, but again, they were web based and also had free and paid options. Who’s to say their assurances aren’t any better or worse about data privacy than any other random add-on or extension…

I did try using Outlook’s built in RSS feed for like five minutes and that  was a no go for sure. No structure or easy way to navigate by topic etc.

I’ve had my share of hopefully so far unsuccessful  attempts to get into my accounts too. A password manager, 2FA wherever possible, etc is a good idea regardless of what service you may or may not use.  

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Amir
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2020 10:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

 

Cristóbal, it's mostly a matter of taste although I feel I shouldn't have to pay $2 or more per month for a service when stand-alone extensions can do the job and Internet Explorer has been propelling it for many years. Moreover, with email I also tend to use Thunderbird rather than the web interface. Unlike you I feel finding information, or even a single feed hidden in a folder when you have more than 100 feeds, via the web interface is much more cumbersome and time-consuming than utilizing a stand-alone app. Finally -- and as someone who has been the target of hopefully unsuccessful Apple and Gmail hacking attacks, I guess it's much more important than you portray. At any event and as you rightly said, to each their own.

 

Best,

Amir


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

David Griffith
 

 

I think the question was for somebody else who also had problems with Thunderbird but I agree that if I had the same problems you had Thunderbird would be unusable.

So far thankfully I have not replicated these issues but I have only just started using it.

The version I am using is

Thunderbird Version 68.11.0

So I don’t know if it has become less buggy since you used it.

David G.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Amir
Sent: 09 August 2020 18:48
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

 

Yes, my folders got created, but the feeds, or rather the feed names, inside each folder are missing. In other words, I do get all articles belonging to each folder, but I can't tell which article belongs to which RSS feed as articles for each feed inside folders aren't populated under that feed, meaning I can't separately monitor feeds which reside inside folders. Also I went to Tools for the import.

 

Best,

Amir

 


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

 

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 01:41 PM, Amir wrote:
I feel I shouldn't have to pay $2 or more per month for a service
Is this for the premium service, or basic?   I'll admit the website isn't good about discussing this, but when I attempt the "Sign Up" process it mentions a 14-day trial of premium.  On a lot of these "premium versus basic" situations the cost is only if you want the premium features.

That would be good info to have.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

Amir
 

Yes, my folders got created, but the feeds, or rather the feed names, inside each folder are missing. In other words, I do get all articles belonging to each folder, but I can't tell which article belongs to which RSS feed as articles for each feed inside folders aren't populated under that feed, meaning I can't separately monitor feeds which reside inside folders. Also I went to Tools for the import.
 
Best,
Amir


Re: Helping to make an Edge/Chrome RSS reader accessible

Amir
 

Cristóbal, it's mostly a matter of taste although I feel I shouldn't have to pay $2 or more per month for a service when stand-alone extensions can do the job and Internet Explorer has been propelling it for many years. Moreover, with email I also tend to use Thunderbird rather than the web interface. Unlike you I feel finding information, or even a single feed hidden in a folder when you have more than 100 feeds, via the web interface is much more cumbersome and time-consuming than utilizing a stand-alone app. Finally -- and as someone who has been the target of hopefully unsuccessful Apple and Gmail hacking attacks, I guess it's much more important than you portray. At any event and as you rightly said, to each their own.
 
Best,
Amir

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