1. nvda@nvda.groups.io
   Date   
Re: Update: Defender no longer mistakenly flagging NVDA

Shaun Everiss
 

Well thats good to know.

I do really wish that if there is something a security detects as a potential issue that it finds and says its a possible issue because it may be unknown or it could be bad, or it looks like %trogen name but its unsure.

What I have had happen on the net is that software x is a trogen and its name is given.

The developer is contacted, he looks at it and says its not.

People then flame the dev and say its a virus, then start saying all his stuff is a virus and he is bad.

One of 2 things happen.

1.  the developer fixes it, is aware and handles it.

or.

2:  and sadly what mostly happens in some forums.

The developer goes, deletes his stuff and storms off.

People trust their security and think its the word of god and once there is a name well they throw it about like a piece of well chooed gum.

They don't care where it goes, they start making drama and so it goes on.

I don't even think the companies realise what dammage they are doing.

False positives are just things things find because it looks like something else.

Thats not a problem but when they start naming and shaming its a problem.

When avg used to find stuff like this it was like avg found unknown trogen name. ext which is in file and folder name and extention, is not in our database.

I didn't really care but it was clear that it had found something it wasn't sure and didn't have.

Sadly a friend that uses various software packages but has from time to time had to test some things for his job has encountered this to.

He knows what it is but it can get frustrating at times.

One day he decided to take his work home with him and well norton did a number on the family computer killing many files, screwing up drives and the like.

He lost a backup drive, his os drive and a data drive.

He now uses a restricted account for home and work and his admin but things do from time to time appear so you are not alone with this stuff.



On 10/02/2020 3:45 pm, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi everyone,

Just a quick update - I mentioned on Friday that Microsoft had fixed their Defender definitions.  At the time it hadn't filtered down to me at least, although later on Friday it did and everything was fine again.  You should no longer have trouble installing NVDA 2019.3rc3 from: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc3-now-available-for-testing/

If you are still having trouble using eSpeak on a previously installed or setup copy of the RC, you might need to install again, as Defender probably deleted the eSpeak.dll file (the file it was incorrectly flagging as problematic).

Also just to reassure everyone, there never was a problem with eSpeak or NVDA - there never was a trojan or malicious software, it was simply Windows defender incorrectly marking the espeak dll as problematic, even though there was nothing wrong with the file.

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
Re: Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Brian K. Lingard
 

Dear Dale & List:

It   may well be from the update. If you have sighted help, your cam uninstalls the update to see if you can get Narrator or NVDA going.

Alternatively, you can try updating your speech drivers.

Happy rolling back or updating.

So, you have Polar Bears like Churchill, MB has.

 

Brian K; Lingard

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf of Dale Leavens
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 10:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

I was using Safari on my iPhone.

 

I am particularly interested because I cannot make my Windows 10 computer load up with Narrator so neither can I get NVDA and was wondering if the update might have something to do with it.

 

Cheers.

 

Dale Leavens

Cochrane Ontario Canada

.

Come visit our polar bears!


On Feb 9, 2020, at 7:36 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:



If you saw the article in Spanish, that is evidently because you have automatic language detection on in NVDA and the page may be incorrectly tagged.  it is in English.  I don't use automatic language detection.  I'll let those who use it and know more about it discuss it further. 

 

Gene

Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:28 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

Did you mean to send a Spanish link?

 

That’s all I could get.

 

Cheers.

 

Dale Leavens

Cochrane Ontario Canada

.

Come visit our polar bears!


On Feb 9, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:



See this article to get an explanation of why Windows updates have caused so much trouble. 

 

Gene

Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:08 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

It is an optional update.  it won't install unless you install it.  I don't know what messages you have from the thread.  I sent links to two articles or maybe three, that discuss the update by name. 

 

Let us know if you don't have the messages. 

 

Gene

Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 5:47 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

What update version are we talking about? As we speak, I’m running Windows 10Ver1909 (64 bits) build 18363.592, and I haven’t had any sort of problems.

Let’s say that the update that’s causing problems for people as mentioned in the article, I never install it, preferring to wait for the next one. What’ll happen then? Is Windows 10 like iOS or Android that it installs the latest update skipping others before it?

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Brian Vogel
Enviado: Domingo, 9 de Ferrero de 2020 12:56 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
As unto: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 01:01 PM, Gene wrote:

One source said that many people aren't affected

And, to me, that's the key point.  So long as that's reported, and the problems that have occurred are accurately reported, it's worth considering.  The problem with most of these sorts of reports is that they omit that the folks affected are, essentially, outliers on the bell curve and, though the root cause is not yet known, it's most likely something idiosyncratic about their systems, not Windows itself.   Truly "bad updates" cause issues for the majority, if not all, users.  When that occurs, you can be assured that Microsoft has messed up; when it doesn't, and it's a very small number among the embedded base, you can almost (not absolutely, but almost) be assured it's not Microsoft that's messed up.   Having been in this business as long as I have, and doing repair as my main line of work, I have seen time and again systems that have not had even the slightest bit of care and maintenance become houses of cards that, eventually, will collapse because of that, not because there was anything at all wrong with the "card" that finally triggered the collapse.

With regard to Ms. Komando, it's her exaggerations in particular, which are characteristic of most of her reporting, that I find particularly troubling.  She makes mountains out of molehills with shocking regularity.  That serves no one, I find.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 

_._,_._,_
Re: Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Dale Leavens
 

I was using Safari on my iPhone.

I am particularly interested because I cannot make my Windows 10 computer load up with Narator so neither can I get NVDA and was wondering if the update might have something to do with it.

Cheers.


Dale Leavens
Cochrane Ontario Canada
.
Come visit our polar bears!

On Feb 9, 2020, at 7:36 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:


If you saw the article in Spanish, that is evidently because you have automatic language detection on in NVDA and the page may be incorrectly tagged.  it is in English.  I don't use automatic language detection.  I'll let those who use it and know more about it discuss it further. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Did you mean to send a spanish link?

That’s all I could get.

Cheers.


Dale Leavens
Cochrane Ontario Canada
.
Come visit our polar bears!

On Feb 9, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:


See this article to get an explanation of why Windows updates have caused so much trouble. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

It is an optional update.  it won't install unless you install it.  I don't know what messages you have from the thread.  I sent links to two articles or maybe three, that discuss the update by name. 
 
Let us know if you don't have the messages. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

What update version are  we talking about? As we speak, I’m running Windows 10Ver1909 (64 bits) build 18363.592, and I haven’t had any sort of problems.

Let’s say that the update that’s causing problems for people as mentioned in the article, I never install it, preferring to wait for the next one. What’llhappen then? Is Windows10 like iOS or Android that it installs the latest update skipping others before it?

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Brian Vogel
Enviado: domingo, 9 de febrero de 2020 12:56 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 01:01 PM, Gene wrote:

One source said that many people aren't affected

And, to me, that's the key point.  So long as that's reported, and the problems that have occurred are accurately reported, it's worth considering.  The problem with most of these sorts of reports is that they omit that the folks affected are, essentially, outliers on the bell curve and, though the root cause is not yet known, it's most likely something idiosyncratic about their systems, not Windows itself.   Truly "bad updates" cause issues for the majority, if not all, users.  When that occurs, you can be assured that Microsoft has messed up; when it doesn't, and it's a very small number among the embedded base, you can almost (not absolutely, but almost) be assured it's not Microsoft that's messed up.   Having been in this business as long as I have, and doing repair as my main line of work, I have seen time and again systems that have not had even the slightest bit of care and maintenance become houses of cards that, eventually, will collapse because of that, not because there was anything at all wrong with the "card" that finally triggered the collapse.

With regard to Ms. Komando, it's her exaggerations in particular, which are characteristic of most of her reporting, that I find particularly troubling.  She makes mountains out of molehills with shocking regularity.  That serves no one, I find.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 
Re: NVDA Not Working with CyberLink PowerDVD Ultra 19

Quentin Christensen
 

I haven't used Cyberlink myself, but I wonder for those who have it, have you reached out to Cyberlink about the accessibility problems?

WIthout having looked at the software this is all just general, but in general:
- NVDA supports standard controls (buttons, edit boxes, labels, etc), so if a program uses standard controls they should generally be accessible.  There might be issues like if they created the buttons in reverse order TAB might take you everywhere in a weird order, but you should be able to get there.

- If a developer has created their own custom controls, they may not be accessible, depending on whether they based them off an accessible control or really did create them from scratch.  If they created them from scratch, it's still possible to make them accessible, it just requires extra work in terms of ensuring information is declared to accessibility APIs which might be listening, labels are attached to edit boxes, and so on.

- Often, it's not just being able to tab or arrow to information, but you need to be able to quickly jump to important controls.  If you have a telephone answering program for instance, you really want a shortcut that will let you answer the phone immediately - you don't want to have to tab 35 times to get to the "answer" button.  You also want the program to alert you to the fact that the phone is ringing in the first place.  A flashing light with no other indication and nothing for NVDA to detect isn't going to be very accessible.

There might be things NVDA can do better to access a program, and it might be possible to write an add-on or modify NVDA to overcome issues with the above points, however if the developer of the original software can address those points and ensure their software is as accessible as possible, then it will help not only NVDA users, (and NVDA users who don't have a specific version of NVDA or a particular add-on) but it will help other users as well - users of other screen readers, keyboard users who might not use a screen reader, etc.

As I said, I haven't used this particular program so those are all general comments.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 4:08 PM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:

Thats true.

I have had a similar issue with abbyy fine reader 15.

At first they just said it worked with jaws and that was fine but would test it.

It took them over a month to test and find it was their software being bad.

Now its not been fixed yet but its in the cue so its going to appear at some point maybe in the next update in the 15 x series whenever that is.



On 9/02/2020 3:22 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
What any screen reader user needs to understand is that issues of inaccessibility can originate with the screen reader itself, the software you're trying to use it to control, or both.

Your request is not unreasonable, but be aware that it may have nothing to do with NVDA (or any other screen reader) and may have everything to do with something the folks at CyberLink have done (or not done) with PowerDVD Ultra 19.

There are times, of course, where both sides of the equation will have tweaks that must be made.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
Re: Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Luigi,

Everything should be fine with the RC now, and the 2019.2.1 version of eSpeak was never flagged so you shouldn't be having a problem with that version if you did downgrade.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 1:18 AM luigi <mcueff01@...> wrote:

Hello,

 

Thank you for this information, i will downgrade to nvda2019.2.1. Hopefully it will not affect the french voice of espeak.

 

Provenance : Courrier pour Windows 10



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
Update: Defender no longer mistakenly flagging NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

Just a quick update - I mentioned on Friday that Microsoft had fixed their Defender definitions.  At the time it hadn't filtered down to me at least, although later on Friday it did and everything was fine again.  You should no longer have trouble installing NVDA 2019.3rc3 from: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc3-now-available-for-testing/

If you are still having trouble using eSpeak on a previously installed or setup copy of the RC, you might need to install again, as Defender probably deleted the eSpeak.dll file (the file it was incorrectly flagging as problematic).

Also just to reassure everyone, there never was a problem with eSpeak or NVDA - there never was a trojan or malicious software, it was simply Windows defender incorrectly marking the espeak dll as problematic, even though there was nothing wrong with the file.

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
update on my keys loosing control.

Sarah k Alawami
 

Hello to all. I'm really starting to get frustrated here. I was just minding my own business and NVDA decided to lose control. so did narrator. I hve no clue if this is a windows issue, but it did start with 1909 last year and now happens every 30 or so seconds or when it wants to. I remember discussion on the list about this some months ago. and a solution never was come up wiht. A restart is not working ehre as it will just happen out of the blue even when my system is not busy. Here is the log I managed to gather. I hear braille tethered to focus btw when I try and check the title. I think the control key might be getting stuck but I have no clue how to software unstick it. I tried tapping it and no release. it will just happen at random. Here is my log.


INFO - __main__ (18:05:47.444):
Starting NVDA
INFO - core.main (18:05:48.887):
Config dir: C:\Users\Sarah\AppData\Roaming\nvda
INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (18:05:48.887):
Loading config: C:\Users\Sarah\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini
INFO - core.main (18:05:48.967):
NVDA version 2019.2.1
INFO - core.main (18:05:48.967):
Using Windows version 10.0.18363 workstation
INFO - core.main (18:05:48.967):
Using Python version 2.7.16 (v2.7.16:413a49145e, Mar  4 2019, 01:30:55) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
INFO - core.main (18:05:48.967):
Using comtypes version 1.1.7
INFO - core.main (18:05:48.967):
Using configobj version 5.1.0 with validate version 1.0.1
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (18:05:49.750):
Loaded synthDriver oneCore
INFO - core.main (18:05:49.750):
Using wx version 4.0.3 msw (phoenix) wxWidgets 3.0.5
INFO - brailleInput.initialize (18:05:49.752):
Braille input initialized
INFO - braille.initialize (18:05:49.753):
Using liblouis version 3.10.0
INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (18:05:49.756):
Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.
WARNING - core.main (18:05:49.801):
Java Access Bridge not available
INFO - _UIAHandler.UIAHandler.MTAThreadFunc (18:05:49.812):
UIAutomation: IUIAutomation6
INFO - external:globalPlugins.translate.GlobalPlugin.__init__ (18:05:54.545):
Translate module initialized, translating to en
INFO - core.main (18:05:54.931):
NVDA initialized
INFO - __main__ (18:05:47.444):
Starting NVDA
INFO - core.main (18:05:48.887):
Config dir: C:\Users\Sarah\AppData\Roaming\nvda
INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (18:05:48.887):
Loading config: C:\Users\Sarah\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini
INFO - core.main (18:05:48.967):
NVDA version 2019.2.1
INFO - core.main (18:05:48.967):
Using Windows version 10.0.18363 workstation
INFO - core.main (18:05:48.967):
Using Python version 2.7.16 (v2.7.16:413a49145e, Mar  4 2019, 01:30:55) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
INFO - core.main (18:05:48.967):
Using comtypes version 1.1.7
INFO - core.main (18:05:48.967):
Using configobj version 5.1.0 with validate version 1.0.1
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (18:05:49.750):
Loaded synthDriver oneCore
INFO - core.main (18:05:49.750):
Using wx version 4.0.3 msw (phoenix) wxWidgets 3.0.5
INFO - brailleInput.initialize (18:05:49.752):
Braille input initialized
INFO - braille.initialize (18:05:49.753):
Using liblouis version 3.10.0
INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (18:05:49.756):
Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.
WARNING - core.main (18:05:49.801):
Java Access Bridge not available
INFO - _UIAHandler.UIAHandler.MTAThreadFunc (18:05:49.812):
UIAutomation: IUIAutomation6
INFO - external:globalPlugins.translate.GlobalPlugin.__init__ (18:05:54.545):
Translate module initialized, translating to en
INFO - core.main (18:05:54.931):
NVDA initialized
             so is there a way I can fix this? It is driving me nuts. I hold the control key for about 15 seconds, it works, then as soon as I try and do something it gets stuck. In fact it took me about 20 minutes to write this as the control key keyt sticking. I did disable updates as a test and it still got stuck, and the only windows update was a security one for  the scanner.


Please help?
Re: Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Brian K. Lingard
 

 

Dear Jean & List:

I run JAWS 2020, have it set to detect language and yes, JAWS did its best to read ne the page in Spanish!

Brian K. Lingard

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A

 

 

 



 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf of Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 7:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

If you saw the article in Spanish, that is evidently because you have automatic language detection on in NVDA and the page may be incorrectly tagged.  it is in English.  I don't use automatic language detection.  I'll let those who use it and know more about it discuss it further. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:28 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

Did you mean to send a Spanish link?

 

That’s all I could get.

 

Cheers.

 

Dale Leavens

Cochrane Ontario Canada

.

Come visit our polar bears!



On Feb 9, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:



See this article to get an explanation of why Windows updates have caused so much trouble. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

 

 

Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:08 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

It is an optional update.  it won't install unless you install it.  I don't know what messages you have from the thread.  I sent links to two articles or maybe three, that discuss the update by name. 

 

Let us know if you don't have the messages. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 5:47 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

What update version are we talking about? As we speak, I’m running Windows 10Ver1909 (64 bits) build 18363.592, and I haven’t had any sort of problems.

Let’s say that the update that’s causing problems for people as mentioned in the article, I never install it, preferring to wait for the next one. What’ll happen then? Is Windows 10 like iOS or Android that it installs the latest update skipping others before it?

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Brian Vogel
Enviado: Domingo, 9 de Ferrero de 2020 12:56 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
As unto: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 01:01 PM, Gene wrote:

One source said that many people aren't affected

And, to me, that's the key point.  So long as that's reported, and the problems that have occurred are accurately reported, it's worth considering.  The problem with most of these sorts of reports is that they omit that the folks affected are, essentially, outliers on the bell curve and, though the root cause is not yet known, it's most likely something idiosyncratic about their systems, not Windows itself.   Truly "bad updates" cause issues for the majority, if not all, users.  When that occurs, you can be assured that Microsoft has messed up; when it doesn't, and it's a very small number among the embedded base, you can almost (not absolutely, but almost) be assured it's not Microsoft that's messed up.   Having been in this business as long as I have, and doing repair as my main line of work, I have seen time and again systems that have not had even the slightest bit of care and maintenance become houses of cards that, eventually, will collapse because of that, not because there was anything at all wrong with the "card" that finally triggered the collapse.

With regard to Ms. Komando, it's her exaggerations in particular, which are characteristic of most of her reporting, that I find particularly troubling.  She makes mountains out of molehills with shocking regularity.  That serves no one, I find.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 
Re: braille me and brltty

Jason White
 

The BRLTTY list would be worth contacting, as has been suggested.

 

They work mostly under Linux and Android, but someone there should still be able to help with Windows issues.

 

I use BRLTTY all the time when I’m running Linux on my laptop.

 

From: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...>
Reply-To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, February 9, 2020 at 08:55
To: "nvda@groups.io" <nvda@groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] braille me and brltty

 

Hi,

I installed brltty, installed python development 3.8, then installed the python program or tried to install it, the one in the brltty folder in program files x86, but it would not install because I installed python 3.8 and brltty needs python 3.2. it looks like brltty won’t let me use the braille me display with NVDA after all. I was hoping I could get the braille me working with NVDA but I guess not.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
Re: Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Gene
 

yes, but the quote from the article I placed in the message you are responding to tells of someone who couldn't get sound back even by reinstalling Windows.  Even if this is rare, that isn't a chance I want to take.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Arlene
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

, you can uninstall the update. You just go into your windows update history. You’ll find it there.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: February 9, 2020 11:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

I wouldn't take a chance on this update, based on information in this article.

 

Here is a quote:

 

It’s now become apparent that the Windows 10 KB4532695 update has also introduced other serious problems, with Windows Latest reporting that users are complaining that as soon as they’ve installed the update, the sound stops working on their PC.
According to Windows Latest, one user on Microsoft’s community forum complained that “I installed the update Saturday afternoon and immediately the sound stopped working,” with Windows 10 now not recognising their speakers.
Not only is that incredibly annoying, but, rather worryingly, it seems the problem didn’t go away once the user uninstalled the update - and it even persisted after they performed a full reinstall

 

I don't think that problems that are widespread enough to receive the degree of attention this update has can be blamed, for the most part on user neglect or error.  True, this article says for some users.  How many is that?  I would imagine in beta testing, many bugs affect a minority of users, but they are real and are fixed.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 12:01 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

I checked the article with two other sources and they both stated the same things with additional information.  One source said that many people aren't affected but for those who are affected, there are a wide variety of possible problems and loss of audio is one.  I wouldn't be surprised if a USB sound card would work but why take chances on that or a large number of other possible bugs occurring?

and

 

Regarding Kim Komando's accuracy, I find oversimplifications and exaggerations at times, but I find most information to be either accurate or reasonably so.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel

Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 9:23 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

Gene is correct that this is an optional update and it does not install unless you activate the Download and install link on the Windows Update pane.

I have also found that Kim Komando is far from the most reliable source on anything Windows related.  She's wrong as much, or more, as she's right, so consider the source.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 
Re: Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Shaun Everiss
 

Hmm well that is a bit of a mistake of microsoft.

Now streamling a business is fine but to the point where its failing who knows.

Then again, its a lot of preasure to put on basically a new system, eventually it may work but maybe they need to go back to the older system.



On 10/02/2020 1:21 pm, Gene wrote:
See this article to get an explanation of why Windows updates have caused so much trouble. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

It is an optional update.  it won't install unless you install it.  I don't know what messages you have from the thread.  I sent links to two articles or maybe three, that discuss the update by name. 
 
Let us know if you don't have the messages. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

What update version are  we talking about? As we speak, I’m running Windows 10Ver1909 (64 bits) build 18363.592, and I haven’t had any sort of problems.

Let’s say that the update that’s causing problems for people as mentioned in the article, I never install it, preferring to wait for the next one. What’llhappen then? Is Windows10 like iOS or Android that it installs the latest update skipping others before it?

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Brian Vogel
Enviado: domingo, 9 de febrero de 2020 12:56 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 01:01 PM, Gene wrote:

One source said that many people aren't affected

And, to me, that's the key point.  So long as that's reported, and the problems that have occurred are accurately reported, it's worth considering.  The problem with most of these sorts of reports is that they omit that the folks affected are, essentially, outliers on the bell curve and, though the root cause is not yet known, it's most likely something idiosyncratic about their systems, not Windows itself.   Truly "bad updates" cause issues for the majority, if not all, users.  When that occurs, you can be assured that Microsoft has messed up; when it doesn't, and it's a very small number among the embedded base, you can almost (not absolutely, but almost) be assured it's not Microsoft that's messed up.   Having been in this business as long as I have, and doing repair as my main line of work, I have seen time and again systems that have not had even the slightest bit of care and maintenance become houses of cards that, eventually, will collapse because of that, not because there was anything at all wrong with the "card" that finally triggered the collapse.

With regard to Ms. Komando, it's her exaggerations in particular, which are characteristic of most of her reporting, that I find particularly troubling.  She makes mountains out of molehills with shocking regularity.  That serves no one, I find.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 
Re: Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Gene
 

If you saw the article in Spanish, that is evidently because you have automatic language detection on in NVDA and the page may be incorrectly tagged.  it is in English.  I don't use automatic language detection.  I'll let those who use it and know more about it discuss it further. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Did you mean to send a spanish link?

That’s all I could get.

Cheers.


Dale Leavens
Cochrane Ontario Canada
.
Come visit our polar bears!

On Feb 9, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:


See this article to get an explanation of why Windows updates have caused so much trouble. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

It is an optional update.  it won't install unless you install it.  I don't know what messages you have from the thread.  I sent links to two articles or maybe three, that discuss the update by name. 
 
Let us know if you don't have the messages. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

What update version are  we talking about? As we speak, I’m running Windows 10Ver1909 (64 bits) build 18363.592, and I haven’t had any sort of problems.

Let’s say that the update that’s causing problems for people as mentioned in the article, I never install it, preferring to wait for the next one. What’llhappen then? Is Windows10 like iOS or Android that it installs the latest update skipping others before it?

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Brian Vogel
Enviado: domingo, 9 de febrero de 2020 12:56 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 01:01 PM, Gene wrote:

One source said that many people aren't affected

And, to me, that's the key point.  So long as that's reported, and the problems that have occurred are accurately reported, it's worth considering.  The problem with most of these sorts of reports is that they omit that the folks affected are, essentially, outliers on the bell curve and, though the root cause is not yet known, it's most likely something idiosyncratic about their systems, not Windows itself.   Truly "bad updates" cause issues for the majority, if not all, users.  When that occurs, you can be assured that Microsoft has messed up; when it doesn't, and it's a very small number among the embedded base, you can almost (not absolutely, but almost) be assured it's not Microsoft that's messed up.   Having been in this business as long as I have, and doing repair as my main line of work, I have seen time and again systems that have not had even the slightest bit of care and maintenance become houses of cards that, eventually, will collapse because of that, not because there was anything at all wrong with the "card" that finally triggered the collapse.

With regard to Ms. Komando, it's her exaggerations in particular, which are characteristic of most of her reporting, that I find particularly troubling.  She makes mountains out of molehills with shocking regularity.  That serves no one, I find.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 
Re: Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Arlene
 

, you can uninstall the update. You just go into your windows update history. You’ll find it there.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: February 9, 2020 11:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

I wouldn't take a chance on this update, based on information in this article.

 

Here is a quote:

 

It’s now become apparent that the Windows 10 KB4532695 update has also introduced other serious problems, with Windows Latest reporting that users are complaining that as soon as they’ve installed the update, the sound stops working on their PC.
According to Windows Latest, one user on Microsoft’s community forum complained that “I installed the update Saturday afternoon and immediately the sound stopped working,” with Windows 10 now not recognising their speakers.
Not only is that incredibly annoying, but, rather worryingly, it seems the problem didn’t go away once the user uninstalled the update - and it even persisted after they performed a full reinstall

 

I don't think that problems that are widespread enough to receive the degree of attention this update has can be blamed, for the most part on user neglect or error.  True, this article says for some users.  How many is that?  I would imagine in beta testing, many bugs affect a minority of users, but they are real and are fixed.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 12:01 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

I checked the article with two other sources and they both stated the same things with additional information.  One source said that many people aren't affected but for those who are affected, there are a wide variety of possible problems and loss of audio is one.  I wouldn't be surprised if a USB sound card would work but why take chances on that or a large number of other possible bugs occurring?

and

 

Regarding Kim Komando's accuracy, I find oversimplifications and exaggerations at times, but I find most information to be either accurate or reasonably so.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 9:23 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

Gene is correct that this is an optional update and it does not install unless you activate the Download and install link on the Windows Update pane.

I have also found that Kim Komando is far from the most reliable source on anything Windows related.  She's wrong as much, or more, as she's right, so consider the source.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 
Re: Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Dale Leavens
 

Did you mean to send a spanish link?

That’s all I could get.

Cheers.


Dale Leavens
Cochrane Ontario Canada
.
Come visit our polar bears!

On Feb 9, 2020, at 7:20 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:


See this article to get an explanation of why Windows updates have caused so much trouble. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

It is an optional update.  it won't install unless you install it.  I don't know what messages you have from the thread.  I sent links to two articles or maybe three, that discuss the update by name. 
 
Let us know if you don't have the messages. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

What update version are  we talking about? As we speak, I’m running Windows 10Ver1909 (64 bits) build 18363.592, and I haven’t had any sort of problems.

Let’s say that the update that’s causing problems for people as mentioned in the article, I never install it, preferring to wait for the next one. What’llhappen then? Is Windows10 like iOS or Android that it installs the latest update skipping others before it?

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Brian Vogel
Enviado: domingo, 9 de febrero de 2020 12:56 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 01:01 PM, Gene wrote:

One source said that many people aren't affected

And, to me, that's the key point.  So long as that's reported, and the problems that have occurred are accurately reported, it's worth considering.  The problem with most of these sorts of reports is that they omit that the folks affected are, essentially, outliers on the bell curve and, though the root cause is not yet known, it's most likely something idiosyncratic about their systems, not Windows itself.   Truly "bad updates" cause issues for the majority, if not all, users.  When that occurs, you can be assured that Microsoft has messed up; when it doesn't, and it's a very small number among the embedded base, you can almost (not absolutely, but almost) be assured it's not Microsoft that's messed up.   Having been in this business as long as I have, and doing repair as my main line of work, I have seen time and again systems that have not had even the slightest bit of care and maintenance become houses of cards that, eventually, will collapse because of that, not because there was anything at all wrong with the "card" that finally triggered the collapse.

With regard to Ms. Komando, it's her exaggerations in particular, which are characteristic of most of her reporting, that I find particularly troubling.  She makes mountains out of molehills with shocking regularity.  That serves no one, I find.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 
Re: Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Gene
 

See this article to get an explanation of why Windows updates have caused so much trouble. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

It is an optional update.  it won't install unless you install it.  I don't know what messages you have from the thread.  I sent links to two articles or maybe three, that discuss the update by name. 
 
Let us know if you don't have the messages. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

What update version are  we talking about? As we speak, I’m running Windows 10Ver1909 (64 bits) build 18363.592, and I haven’t had any sort of problems.

Let’s say that the update that’s causing problems for people as mentioned in the article, I never install it, preferring to wait for the next one. What’llhappen then? Is Windows10 like iOS or Android that it installs the latest update skipping others before it?

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Brian Vogel
Enviado: domingo, 9 de febrero de 2020 12:56 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 01:01 PM, Gene wrote:

One source said that many people aren't affected

And, to me, that's the key point.  So long as that's reported, and the problems that have occurred are accurately reported, it's worth considering.  The problem with most of these sorts of reports is that they omit that the folks affected are, essentially, outliers on the bell curve and, though the root cause is not yet known, it's most likely something idiosyncratic about their systems, not Windows itself.   Truly "bad updates" cause issues for the majority, if not all, users.  When that occurs, you can be assured that Microsoft has messed up; when it doesn't, and it's a very small number among the embedded base, you can almost (not absolutely, but almost) be assured it's not Microsoft that's messed up.   Having been in this business as long as I have, and doing repair as my main line of work, I have seen time and again systems that have not had even the slightest bit of care and maintenance become houses of cards that, eventually, will collapse because of that, not because there was anything at all wrong with the "card" that finally triggered the collapse.

With regard to Ms. Komando, it's her exaggerations in particular, which are characteristic of most of her reporting, that I find particularly troubling.  She makes mountains out of molehills with shocking regularity.  That serves no one, I find.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 
Re: Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Shaun Everiss
 


Well if you havn't installed the optional, I'd wait for a couple days.

Its getting close to patch tuesday and that update is about to get overridden.



On 10/02/2020 1:08 pm, Gene wrote:
It is an optional update.  it won't install unless you install it.  I don't know what messages you have from the thread.  I sent links to two articles or maybe three, that discuss the update by name. 
 
Let us know if you don't have the messages. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

What update version are  we talking about? As we speak, I’m running Windows 10Ver1909 (64 bits) build 18363.592, and I haven’t had any sort of problems.

Let’s say that the update that’s causing problems for people as mentioned in the article, I never install it, preferring to wait for the next one. What’llhappen then? Is Windows10 like iOS or Android that it installs the latest update skipping others before it?

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Brian Vogel
Enviado: domingo, 9 de febrero de 2020 12:56 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 01:01 PM, Gene wrote:

One source said that many people aren't affected

And, to me, that's the key point.  So long as that's reported, and the problems that have occurred are accurately reported, it's worth considering.  The problem with most of these sorts of reports is that they omit that the folks affected are, essentially, outliers on the bell curve and, though the root cause is not yet known, it's most likely something idiosyncratic about their systems, not Windows itself.   Truly "bad updates" cause issues for the majority, if not all, users.  When that occurs, you can be assured that Microsoft has messed up; when it doesn't, and it's a very small number among the embedded base, you can almost (not absolutely, but almost) be assured it's not Microsoft that's messed up.   Having been in this business as long as I have, and doing repair as my main line of work, I have seen time and again systems that have not had even the slightest bit of care and maintenance become houses of cards that, eventually, will collapse because of that, not because there was anything at all wrong with the "card" that finally triggered the collapse.

With regard to Ms. Komando, it's her exaggerations in particular, which are characteristic of most of her reporting, that I find particularly troubling.  She makes mountains out of molehills with shocking regularity.  That serves no one, I find.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 
Re: Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Deenadayalan Moodley
 

Hi,

 

Look at Windows PE.  This does work and I have one which is a portable version of Windows on a memory stick with various tools to repair computers, etc.

 

The late Carlos produced these.

 

Thanks.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of coffeekingms@...
Sent: 08 February 2020 02:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Hi

I want to weigh in hear, a bit. I’m no security expert, at all, but I see a couple of possible options hear. Are there any compatible ISO images that can be put on a USB flash drive, windows and Linux, that can be used to scan a drive, backup drives, etc for malware and remove any that is found? Since we’re talking about exclusions, a way to exclude false positives, and remove the negatives? I know virus detection is complicated, and I don’t presume to have a perfect solution, but it’s an option. Have whatever security software you like, whichever works, but have a backup, that is separate from your computer, so if gets infected by something nasty, you can boot something self contained to work with. The images would have to be accessible out of the box, without any setup needed, and I’m not sure anything exists. I know for Linux there’s kali, bt I believe that’s for penetration testing and the like. If not, I’d be happy to try to put something together, if anyone is interested. Again, I’m not an expert, and I’m not even sure how to do this but I’d be willing to try. I’m not sure about the windows licensing and such, so it might not be possible to put a windows based one together, but Linux is another story. I’m not advocating Linux, but … oh hell. I don’t want to start a flame war. Another option is to have backup software on a flash drive that can run from a flash drive, but you’d need a functioning system to run it.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 3:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Using no security at all is dumb and stupid.

You should always have some of it.

A false negative means you get a virus and loose stuff.

Thats happened to one of my cousins ironically because he forgot to
update his norton subscription and he lost a lot of stuff, he had to
reformat to make the problem go away.

He couldn't do that himself and had to take the pc to somewhere to get
it fixed, it cost him a lot of cash.

While I am not against using security software in general I am
dissapointed and disheartened at the reasonable amount of noise in the
scans.

I know what the false positives are and what they are but unless I make
exclude lists for my software things will just get destroyed by the
software, don't use it and its worse.

But it depends what you do.

If you just use windows store apps, email via google, etc, chances are
you will be probably fine especially if everything is done in the cloud
as there is some protection there but its not perfect.


I wouldn't go about bragging you do not use security software as it is
very dangerous.

At the same time, it does concern me that every update of the so called
databases there is a chance that something else will be added to my
noisy scan data.

This means I need to lower my security by excluding things.

I do not at any way shape or form feel good about this but what else can
I do.

And I far better be complaining about false alarms than getting a virus,
I just wish things would get easier.

Something changed in the year 2003 which started us down the road of the
security nightmare we are on now.

At first, a few programs, but by 2007 we were seeing noisier and noisier
data and by 2012 it was really bad.

Since 2015 its plattoed at a point not going up or down which I guess is
good, however I'd like it to go back to normal.

I shouldn't get any message from my security software unless I have a
virus and can decide on the action.

Instead I get told I have a virus which is either something new, old or
that has been working before.

Instead of running malwarebytes which I no longer have installed on any
of my systems and full scanns of windows security or others, I don't
scan at all bar a quick scan or so which is done automatically.

Back in the day I would regular do this.

But now my system is infested with a lot of viruses and I know that all
of them are false positives and they never change so I don't upgrade or
anything.

Well I don't use a thirdparty scanner, put it that way.

I started with sophos but it made sure to make all the viruses go away
screwing up my system.

It took me a great deal to reinstall windows from scratch and get
everything back.

The meaning of security software is to at least be a guide to security.

I am more insecure with security software so I have to force it to behave.

At the same time I wouldn't go without it.

All those ransomware attacks, botnets and malwarebreaches are worse than
any false positive.

Yet I really wish they would stop.

I manage a blog and a server on wordpress and do use security software.

And I havn't lost anything that wasn't supposed to be a problem, all my
files are there, no problem.

Yet in user computers companies think they can just do what they want.






On 8/02/2020 10:05 pm, zahra wrote:
> false positive and false negative, are two of the main factors that i
> never trust and never use security programs, antivirus, antimalware,
> etc.
> not sure about firewalls, but i never used and i am not familiar with
> there method and the level of there reliability.
> in the previous weeks, maybe in the first days of new year, i sent an
> ofline email for you,
> but unfortunately i did not recieve your reply and i am waiting for your answer!
> God bless you and thanks so much for your helpful replies as always.
>
> On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>> Just about every antimalware program has this false positive.
>>
>> Kaspersky and a few others are supposed to be better.
>>
>> Anyway what I actually said was that these programs at least some of
>> them detect more false than well who knows.
>>
>> I have never got a virus in the last 10 years but I have got a lot of
>> false alarms.
>>
>> Not sure about win8 etc, but yes you can exclude stuff you know is not a
>> problem.
>>
>> It would be good actually if you excluded the file you could report all
>> your excluded files to the maker like microsoft and for each you could
>> state what it was, etc and maybe get support on it.
>>
>> The issue I have and maybe others, is that while some of the stuff we
>> know about, I spend more time stopping false alarms than actual viruses.
>>
>> I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing but its certainly stopped me
>> from getting any serious security software.
>>
>> If windows defender and malwarebytes cause this much trouble with a
>> false positive, then I really don't want to know what a really good
>> antivirus will say.
>>
>> But basically everything on your system is a potential virus depending
>> on the detections and stuff used.
>>
>> And with the cloud based ai, I doubt that at the automated level there
>> is much control.
>>
>> If you tell them they will fix the issue but there is no reason to think
>> it will stay fixed.
>>
>> As a result all the false alarms make the display of the software noisy.
>>
>> As I said, right now I have so many security holes in my computer caused
>> by so many folder excludes that if it wasn't for ransomware, I have half
>> a mind to exclude my entire hard drive or even disable the windows
>> security subsystem.
>>
>> However there is always the if factor so I don't.
>>
>> I havn't run any full system scans in the last 10 years, and I havn't
>> run any malware software in the last 5 years simply because of this issue.
>>
>> With the so called inteligent stuff about bgt and maybe some older
>> software excluded, it seems that every software package needs a security
>> certification id or something and while it would be nice to get one, I
>> do wander if I could get one myself for the purpose that the software I
>> have is not a problem or something.
>>
>> I know some say I am just unlucky, but on all my other systems with out
>> blind games, blind software and blind accessible programs there are no
>> trogens at all and that in itself is a concern, no excludes on any of my
>> other systems yet.
>>
>> Maybe I may exclude nvda just because I am concerned but still, maybe I
>> have over excluded because of all this going on.
>>
>>
>> On 8/02/2020 7:18 pm, zahra wrote:
>>> Shaun,
>>> did i understand it correctly?
>>> i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
>>> scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
>>> files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
>>> and video files?
>>> i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
>>> someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
>>> folders from scanning by deffender.
>>> his tutorial was for windows ten.
>>> does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
>>> it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
>>> informing us about this matter?
>>>
>>> On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>>>> Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make
>>>> viruses.
>>>>
>>>> At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
>>>> using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
>>>> control on at 33% by default.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
>>>>> Hi Quenton,
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
>>>>> version.  I have had odd issues with it in the past.  If you are
>>>>> familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
>>>>> after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
>>>>> updates, it flags it again.  I had to go into the settings and
>>>>> manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
>>>>> then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it.  It
>>>>> never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
>>>>> up.  I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
>>>>> with no change.  I  am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
>>>>> system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
>>>>>> I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage?  Perhaps
>>>>>> Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7?  Or their Defender hasn't
>>>>>> updated to the latest definitions maybe?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
>>>>>> <mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       Hi Group,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       I also do not have this issue with RC3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
>>>>>>>       Hi, Quentin,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
>>>>>>>       wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe
>>>>>>> side.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Rosemarie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>       [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
>>>>>>>       *Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
>>>>>>>       *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>       *Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Hi folks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
>>>>>>>       Microsoft's random unfounded accusations.  If you try to install
>>>>>>>       the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
>>>>>>>       alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
>>>>>>>       The install of NVDA will fail.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
>>>>>>>       RC and that should run fine.  You won't be able to use eSpeak
>>>>>>> NG.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
>>>>>>>       uses a different build of eSpeak NG).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well.  I
>>>>>>>       have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
>>>>>>>       else to as well.  To be honest, even aside from it being our
>>>>>>>       program affected, this really annoys me.  Defender has NOT found
>>>>>>>       a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
>>>>>>>       that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
>>>>>>>       but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
>>>>>>>       software has been found.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
>>>>>>>       NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
>>>>>>>       the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
>>>>>>> inconvenience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Quentin Christensen
>>>>>>>       Training and Support Manager
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>>>>>       Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>       --
>>>>>>       They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>>>>>>       They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>>>>>>       I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>>>> Training and Support Manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
>>>>>> https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>>>> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>>> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>>>>>> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>>>>> --
>>>>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>>>>> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>>>>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

 
Re: Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Gene
 

It is an optional update.  it won't install unless you install it.  I don't know what messages you have from the thread.  I sent links to two articles or maybe three, that discuss the update by name. 
 
Let us know if you don't have the messages. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

What update version are  we talking about? As we speak, I’m running Windows 10Ver1909 (64 bits) build 18363.592, and I haven’t had any sort of problems.

Let’s say that the update that’s causing problems for people as mentioned in the article, I never install it, preferring to wait for the next one. What’llhappen then? Is Windows10 like iOS or Android that it installs the latest update skipping others before it?

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Brian Vogel
Enviado: domingo, 9 de febrero de 2020 12:56 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 01:01 PM, Gene wrote:

One source said that many people aren't affected

And, to me, that's the key point.  So long as that's reported, and the problems that have occurred are accurately reported, it's worth considering.  The problem with most of these sorts of reports is that they omit that the folks affected are, essentially, outliers on the bell curve and, though the root cause is not yet known, it's most likely something idiosyncratic about their systems, not Windows itself.   Truly "bad updates" cause issues for the majority, if not all, users.  When that occurs, you can be assured that Microsoft has messed up; when it doesn't, and it's a very small number among the embedded base, you can almost (not absolutely, but almost) be assured it's not Microsoft that's messed up.   Having been in this business as long as I have, and doing repair as my main line of work, I have seen time and again systems that have not had even the slightest bit of care and maintenance become houses of cards that, eventually, will collapse because of that, not because there was anything at all wrong with the "card" that finally triggered the collapse.

With regard to Ms. Komando, it's her exaggerations in particular, which are characteristic of most of her reporting, that I find particularly troubling.  She makes mountains out of molehills with shocking regularity.  That serves no one, I find.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 
Re: Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

Gerardo Corripio
 

What update version are  we talking about? As we speak, I’m running Windows 10Ver1909 (64 bits) build 18363.592, and I haven’t had any sort of problems.

Let’s say that the update that’s causing problems for people as mentioned in the article, I never install it, preferring to wait for the next one. What’llhappen then? Is Windows10 like iOS or Android that it installs the latest update skipping others before it?

 

                                                                                              Enviado desde Correo para Windows 10

 

De: Brian Vogel
Enviado: domingo, 9 de febrero de 2020 12:56 p. m.
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Asunto: Re: [nvda] Serious problems with the latest Windows 10 update

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 01:01 PM, Gene wrote:

One source said that many people aren't affected

And, to me, that's the key point.  So long as that's reported, and the problems that have occurred are accurately reported, it's worth considering.  The problem with most of these sorts of reports is that they omit that the folks affected are, essentially, outliers on the bell curve and, though the root cause is not yet known, it's most likely something idiosyncratic about their systems, not Windows itself.   Truly "bad updates" cause issues for the majority, if not all, users.  When that occurs, you can be assured that Microsoft has messed up; when it doesn't, and it's a very small number among the embedded base, you can almost (not absolutely, but almost) be assured it's not Microsoft that's messed up.   Having been in this business as long as I have, and doing repair as my main line of work, I have seen time and again systems that have not had even the slightest bit of care and maintenance become houses of cards that, eventually, will collapse because of that, not because there was anything at all wrong with the "card" that finally triggered the collapse.

With regard to Ms. Komando, it's her exaggerations in particular, which are characteristic of most of her reporting, that I find particularly troubling.  She makes mountains out of molehills with shocking regularity.  That serves no one, I find.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 
Re: braille me and brltty

Brian Tew
 

www.brltty.app
subscribe to their list. very friendly helpful list.
 
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