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Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)
Arlene
You’d probably have to ask the developer to somehow develop a windows version along with linix.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Christopher Gray
Sent: February 7, 2020 9:44 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance
Patches pretty much relate to the Linux/Unix version, not the Windows version.
Chris
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Arlene via Groups.Io wrote:
> > Yes, I can’t remember it’s home page. If you google it, there’s a > frequently asked question page. Also there are new and old Patches you can > download to your Program Alpine. If you can’t use it you can let the > developer know and he can help you. I googled the info last night after you > asked on Wednesday. Due to a reason I had to google something else. > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > From: Christopher Gray > Sent: February 7, 2020 9:35 AM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance > > > > My answer to thkat is that Alpine and Pico are currentlym maintained. If > help > > from their developer(s) is needed, it would be given. > > > > Chris > > > > On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Brian > > Vogel via Groups.Io wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 , Christopher Gray wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the > Pico > > >> text editor. > > > > > > The fact is that a lot of "fairly old pieces of software" were not > written with accessibility in mind at all, and if they are not being > maintained and updated, are very unlikely to become accessible with any > screen reader that does not already work with them. > > > > > > Screen reader developers, and developers in general, have little enough > time to keep up with ongoing changes that they cannot ignore if they wish > to remain working with currently supported operating systems and software. > Any expectation that they can, or should, reach back into the distant past > for software no longer maintained, or even maintained but where the > developers of said software have done nothing to make it compatible with > screen readers, is unreasonable and unrealistic. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 > > > > > > *Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.* > > > > > > ~ Madonna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **************************************** > > Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council > of the Blind in > > your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you > with this. > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > Christopher Gray, Executive Director > > Missouri Council of the Blind > > > > 5453 Chippewa > > St. Louis, MO 63109 > > Phone: (314) 832-7172 > > Toll-free: (800) 342-5632 > > Fax: (314) 832-7796 > > > > Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz? > > Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, > Chris and Don. > > Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. > Pacific > > Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls. > > Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to > > Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast. > > You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts! > > Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio. > > > > > > > > > >
**************************************** Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.
---------------------------------------- Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind
5453 Chippewa St. Louis, MO 63109 Phone: (314) 832-7172 Toll-free: (800) 342-5632 Fax: (314) 832-7796
Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz? Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don. Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls. Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast. You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts! Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
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Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)
ben <swigjr23@...>
Hi Chris,
i am not an NVDA developer, so I might be completely wrong, but I think this might be harder than you think to fix. The main problem you have is Pico and Alpine are hard to find online. At least I can't find Windows ports. Also, it depends if these programs are command line based as they are on Linux, or are they actual graphical versions. I have used Alpine and Nano under Linux, but it has been a while. If I can find the Windows versions, I will take a look and I will test them with a couple other screen readers. I wish I could help more; you might have better luck filing an issue on GitHub. Ben
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Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)
Christopher Gray
Patches pretty much relate to the Linux/Unix version, not the Windows version.
Chris On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Arlene via Groups.Io wrote: Yes, I can’t remember it’s home page. If you google it, there’s a**************************************** Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this. ---------------------------------------- Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind 5453 Chippewa St. Louis, MO 63109 Phone: (314) 832-7172 Toll-free: (800) 342-5632 Fax: (314) 832-7796 Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz? Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don. Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls. Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast. You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts! Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
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Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)
Arlene
Yes, I can’t remember it’s home page. If you google it, there’s a frequently asked question page. Also there are new and old Patches you can download to your Program Alpine. If you can’t use it you can let the developer know and he can help you. I googled the info last night after you asked on Wednesday. Due to a reason I had to google something else.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Christopher Gray
Sent: February 7, 2020 9:35 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance
My answer to thkat is that Alpine and Pico are currentlym maintained. If help from their developer(s) is needed, it would be given.
Chris
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Brian Vogel via Groups.Io wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 , Christopher Gray wrote: > >> >> I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the Pico >> text editor. > > The fact is that a lot of "fairly old pieces of software" were not written with accessibility in mind at all, and if they are not being maintained and updated, are very unlikely to become accessible with any screen reader that does not already work with them. > > Screen reader developers, and developers in general, have little enough time to keep up with ongoing changes that they cannot ignore if they wish to remain working with currently supported operating systems and software. Any expectation that they can, or should, reach back into the distant past for software no longer maintained, or even maintained but where the developers of said software have done nothing to make it compatible with screen readers, is unreasonable and unrealistic. > > -- > > Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 > > *Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.* > > ~ Madonna > > > >
**************************************** Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.
---------------------------------------- Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind
5453 Chippewa St. Louis, MO 63109 Phone: (314) 832-7172 Toll-free: (800) 342-5632 Fax: (314) 832-7796
Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz? Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don. Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls. Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast. You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts! Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
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Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)
Christopher Gray
My answer to thkat is that Alpine and Pico are currentlym maintained. If help from their developer(s) is needed, it would be given.
Chris On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Brian Vogel via Groups.Io wrote: On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 , Christopher Gray wrote:****************************************The fact is that a lot of "fairly old pieces of software" were not written with accessibility in mind at all, and if they are not being maintained and updated, are very unlikely to become accessible with any screen reader that does not already work with them. Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this. ---------------------------------------- Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind 5453 Chippewa St. Louis, MO 63109 Phone: (314) 832-7172 Toll-free: (800) 342-5632 Fax: (314) 832-7796 Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz? Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don. Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls. Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast. You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts! Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
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Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)
Christopher Gray
I'm not really prepared to take that route right now. It just adds too much complexity to the system. I much prefer to use the available Windows versions of these programs on my Windows PC.
Chris On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, John Isige via Groups.Io wrote: Are those even used on unix systems anymore? I thought the email program**************************************** Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this. ---------------------------------------- Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind 5453 Chippewa St. Louis, MO 63109 Phone: (314) 832-7172 Toll-free: (800) 342-5632 Fax: (314) 832-7796 Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz? Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don. Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls. Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast. You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts! Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
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Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019, Christopher Gray wrote:
I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the Pico text editor.The fact is that a lot of "fairly old pieces of software" were not written with accessibility in mind at all, and if they are not being maintained and updated, are very unlikely to become accessible with any screen reader that does not already work with them. Screen reader developers, and developers in general, have little enough time to keep up with ongoing changes that they cannot ignore if they wish to remain working with currently supported operating systems and software. Any expectation that they can, or should, reach back into the distant past for software no longer maintained, or even maintained but where the developers of said software have done nothing to make it compatible with screen readers, is unreasonable and unrealistic. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)
Christopher Gray
Hi and thanks for the response.
I am using it on Windows 7 and Windows 10 on two different computers. Alpine version is 2.20. I invoke Alpine from the Windows command line and not through a terminal program. Chris On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Tyler Spivey via Groups.Io wrote: What version of alpine are you running, on what operating system? Are you using it through a terminal program or native?**************************************** Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this. ---------------------------------------- Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind 5453 Chippewa St. Louis, MO 63109 Phone: (314) 832-7172 Toll-free: (800) 342-5632 Fax: (314) 832-7796 Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz? Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don. Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls. Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast. You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts! Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
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Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)
John Isige
Are those even used on unix systems anymore? I thought the email program
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
was something else. In any case, have you tried Microsoft's Windows Subsystem for Linux? There are quite a few flavors. I haven't tried running either under it so I don't know if it would work any better, but that would be what I'd check. You need Windows 10 for the WSL though. But if you have it, I'd just slap a basic Ubuntu or something on it, and then install alpine as usual. Do sudo apt-get update then sudo apt-get install foo.
On 2/7/2020 11:12, Christopher Gray wrote:
Hi:
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Re: Alpine and Pico (fwd)
Tyler Spivey
What version of alpine are you running, on what operating system? Are you using it through a terminal program or native?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 2/7/2020 9:12 AM, Christopher Gray wrote:
Hi:
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Dropbox addon
Patrick ZAJDA
Hello all,
As a remind, there is a test version of Dropbox add-on which is compatible with 2019.3.
Before making it stable, I would like to know if some people have some feedback and if something in the code should be changed.
The download link is: https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/get.php?file=dx-dev
The GitHub repository is: https://github.com/Nardol/dropbox
Thanks,
--
Patrick ZAJDA
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Alpine and Pico (fwd)
Christopher Gray
Hi:
I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now, once last June, again Wednesday. If there is a better list or means of asking than this list, just let me know that. I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and Window-Eyes. Chris ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000 From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io> Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd) Hello: I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows with NVDA. I really need some assistance with this issue to make a full transition to NVDA. Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows. It is not exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly works. For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in the text, but there is no braille. Sometimes while editing, when I move down line by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line by line after moving down. In the menu of messages, I can't see the messages at all. Thanks. Chris ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000 From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io> Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico Hi: I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the Pico text editor. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this software to work with NVDA. It only shows a blank screen for me. Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs have the same screen issues since they were written by the same source. I haven't attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple. Is there a way I can try to diagnose this? Or, might somebody be willing to look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing? Many thanks. Chris **************************************** Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this. ---------------------------------------- Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind 5453 Chippewa St. Louis, MO 63109 Phone: (314) 832-7172 Toll-free: (800) 342-5632 Fax: (314) 832-7796 Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz? Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don. Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls. Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast. You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts! Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
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Re: NVDA not coming on when I start the computer
Gene
You need to see if the check box is checked for
running on bootup. It sometimes becomes unchecked during upgrades.
The command you are using runs NVDA if it isn't
running. You can't assume it is restarting NVDA. It likely isn't
running in the first place.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA not coming on when I start the
computer loaded once the laptop is completely on. Now I seem to have to do the command as if I was wanting to restart NVDA. I do not know how else to explain this. On 2/7/2020 9:34 AM, Vaibhav Bhandari wrote: > Could you explain further what did you mean by "Your laptop is no > longer coming up with speech with the latest update of NVDA?" I was > unable to understand the problem. > > On 2/7/20, Betsy Grenevitch <blindangel61@...> wrote: >> I believe I remember this topic coming up recently but must have missed >> the response. My laptop is no longer coming up with speech with the >> latest update of NVDA. I am wondering if Microsoft Teams is the problem >> but do not know how to get rid of that program or what it is even for. >> It started coming up when I started using Windows 10. Are there any >> solutions to getting rid of it and if that is not causing the problem >> what can I do to fix NVDA not coning up on its own. >> >> >> Thanks so much. At least there is a workaround by restarting NVDA but I >> know it should not work this way. >> >> >> >> -- >> Betsy Grenevitch >> 678-862-3876 >> >> >> >> >> > -- Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876
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Say product name and version compatible with Python3
Patrick ZAJDA
Hello,
SayProductNameAndVersion has been updated to be compatible with NVDA 2019.3. It is stille compatible with NVDA 2017.3.
Download link:
Best regards,
--
Patrick ZAJDA
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Re: NVDA navigation problems
Gene
I should add that using the key pass through
command and then being able to execute keystrokes properly is a strong
indication that NVDA is the problem so you may not need to test. You may
want to just to be sure things are working as expected.
While this shouldn't help the
problem, make sure you are in object navigation mode, then see if there is any
change or improvement.
Gene
----- Original Message
-----
I don't know why you are seeing the behaviors you
describe. If you were not in NVDA and the NVDA key were stuck, pressing n
would open the NVDA menu. Then, if you tried to down arrow through it, the
NVDA menu wouldn't do anything. If the NVDA key were stuck, then typing
numbers on the main keyboard would change settings such as NVDA 1, toggle input
help on and off, number 2 toggle speak typed characters on and off.
Have you checked to see if the behavior you are
describing is connected at all with NVDA? Have you unloaded it and tested
with another screen-reader?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Tarah Sawler
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA navigation problems
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Re: NVDA navigation problems
Gene
I don't know why you are seeing the behaviors you
describe. If you were not in NVDA and the NVDA key were stuck, pressing n
would open the NVDA menu. Then, if you tried to down arrow through it, the
NVDA menu wouldn't do anything. If the NVDA key were stuck, then typing
numbers on the main keyboard would change settings such as NVDA 1, toggle input
help on and off, number 2 toggle speak typed characters on and off.
Have you checked to see if the behavior you are
describing is connected at all with NVDA? Have you unloaded it and tested
with another screen-reader?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Tarah Sawler
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA navigation problems
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Re: NVDA and my bank's website.
Suzy
Hello again.
It appears to be Google's fault. After creating a portable copy of NVDA Beta 3 and calling my bank to inform them I would be logging in and out several times, I performed several test using the beta 3 and RC3 versions of NVDA. First was the control test. Logging in with Chrome and RC3 worked as it did yesterday. Logging in with Chrome and Beta 3 also functioned in the same manner as RC3. Voila! NVDA was not the culprit. It was time to see if Firefox would produce favorable results. In September, when paired with NVDA 2019.2, it behaved as Chrome is behaving now. An updated Firefox plus NVDA Beta 3 worked as Beta 3 and Chrome had done before my time away from the PC. This was also true for Firefox and RC3. The last thing I did was to see when Chrome last updated. It was two days ago. Although the update is "rolling out", I must have been one of the first to get it. Selecting About Chrome shows me I am up to date. Forgive me for not thoroughly checking things out. Suzy
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Re: Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan
Gene
Microsoft updates the virus definitions for Windows
7 and you can download them in the usual way. I'm not even sure its
correct to say that, because MSEE in Windows 7 may use exactly the same
definitions as Windows Defender in Windows 10.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a
trojan Well ms has stopped updating win7 deffs now officially so it won't effect it. As usual microsoft targets blindness software, I have exclusions for games, recorders and it seems now I will have to do the same to my screen readers and maybe sapi voices? At this rate I may as well exclude my entire c drive! How can we the user be secure if we get so many false alarms. On 7/02/2020 5:13 pm, Quentin Christensen
wrote:
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Re: NVDA not coming on when I start the computer
Betsy Grenevitch
I figured it out. I guess when the update took place it set it
not to turn on NVDA when the computer is starting. It is working
now.
On 2/7/2020 9:55 AM, Cohn, Jonathan
wrote:
Well, since when you "restart" NVDA it is working normally for you, it sounds like you don't have a major issue with speech being completely disabled. I can assure you that Microsoft Teams will work with NVdA, so you don't need to worry about that. Are you sure that NVDA has actually started? Do you hear the Startup chime from NVDA? If you are hearing that chime but never get voice until starting NVDA from the run menu, then your best bet is to get the log file from NVDA and have somebody review it for errors. -- Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876
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Re: NVDA not coming on when I start the computer
Betsy Grenevitch
It is possible there is a setting that I set incorrectly that affects whether NVDA starts automatically on the laptop? Is there such a setting that I need to check. That is the only thing that I can think would have changed. It is not a major issue but I used the sound of NVDA starting to tell me when the laptop was up.
On 2/7/2020 9:55 AM, Cohn, Jonathan
wrote:
Well, since when you "restart" NVDA it is working normally for you, it sounds like you don't have a major issue with speech being completely disabled. I can assure you that Microsoft Teams will work with NVdA, so you don't need to worry about that. Are you sure that NVDA has actually started? Do you hear the Startup chime from NVDA? If you are hearing that chime but never get voice until starting NVDA from the run menu, then your best bet is to get the log file from NVDA and have somebody review it for errors. -- Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876
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