Date   
Re: POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

Kwork
 

I still use pop as I don't generally keep emails beyond a certain time frame except digital receipts, which I save when received. As I usually only check email on the computer, hardly using my phone as an email client as of yet, pop works well enough for me for now. Should that change, I'll change. I don't feel either to be more or less secure than the other, just different depending on the needs/desires of the end user.

Travis

On 2/28/2019 9:33 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
Thanks for the comprehensive clarification of what you meant by "unwise".

I agree that IMAP is better-featured, supports multiple devices more easily,
and places the data retention responsibility on your service provider rather
than you.

I still think this doesn't equate to "unwise", however - POP3 may be more
limited, and it's certainly older (although that doesn't necessarily mean
worse), but as you say, depending on your requirements there is nothing unwise
about POP3.

Thanks again,


Antony.

On Thursday 28 February 2019 at 17:21:06, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 09:35 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
What is unwise about using POP these days?
1. If you only access your e-mail from one, and only one, device, and wish
to be responsible for backing up all the messages that exist only on your
device after download, and you wish to be responsible for trying to port a
huge number of messages from one e-mail client to another should you
choose to change clients then there is nothing unwise about POP.

2. If you're like most users these days, and you have every intention of
accessing your e-mail messages on multiple devices while having what each
"sees" remain in sync, then POP as conventionally configured does a
horrible job of supporting that while IMAP is designed to support that
from the get-go.

3. IMAP messages and all folders associated with same are retained on the
e-mail server and, as a result, are part of the data center's daily (if
not more frequent) backup protocol. The probability of ever losing
something permanently is exceedingly small. By contrast, I have seen POP
users lose years worth of downloaded messages on several occasions when
they were not backing up their own computers and their hard drives failed
catastrophically.

The fact of the matter is that POP (Post Office Protocol) was the first
e-mail protocol and really is an anachronism that remains supported in the
name of backward compatibility. It's shortcomings are myriad, and
particularly when you want e-mail synchronization and portability from
device to device to device over time to be almost effortless (you only
have to set up the account again if you're using IMAP and - poof, like
magic - all of your messages and folders appear).

IMAP is also more space efficient on your own device, because only message
headers are downloaded for presentation in the message list in folders,
with the exception of the most recent messages, which will often have
message bodies downloaded in advance as well for some time period back
from today (say, 2 weeks - it's configurable) because the probability of
actual accessing of newer messages is far, far higher than old ones. You
can also specify specific messages to retain their local message bodies
permanently if you know you make very frequent reference to them so
they'll be available even if you're offline.

For the way most people use e-mail these days, including the bulk of folks
here, as many describe having computer(s) and smartphone(s) on which they
wish to get their e-mail, using the access method suited to it, and that
protects the actual message data the best, is what's wisest. If your
e-mail service provides IMAP access, well . . .

If you fit the profile I noted in #1 above then nothing that follows it is
relevant to you. I find it improbable that everything in #1 above applies
to practically anyone these days.

[And, before anyone jumps in with, "But you can configure POP to leave
messages on the server!," well, yes, you can, but you have to make the
effort to do that in the vast majority of cases, and many would have
absolutely no idea of how to do so. Why use an antiquated protocol that
must be rigged when a better alternative exists?]
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need
for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

Re: Facebook, comments and suggestions

 

It's always done by this method.
The only thing that may be different on a laptop is that one may need to press FN along with F5 due to these silly settings changeable through the BIOS, you know.
Em 28/02/2019 17:05, Kwork escreveu:

And when you refresh the page on m.facebook.com it's done by the normal method of using the f5 key. I have no idea for laptop layout.

Travis

On 2/28/2019 6:54 AM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Molly,
Three things:
1. Using Messenger, you need to type your message, quit the typing mode of NVDA (which I never remember the right name, guess it's focus mode) then search for the send button arrowing down from where you are.

2. Another way, (simpler and quicker) to send a message is just hit enter right after writing your message.
I'm not sure if it works but I have a feeling it does.
If it works, remember then that if you're wanting to write something with more than one line, pressing enter to jump to a new line will actually send your message. In this case, use shift+enter to create a new one.

3. Last but not least, you have what I use most of the time.
You could simply use the Messages' section from http://m.facebook.com, it has a very intuitive interface.
The only downside is you'll need to refresh the page from time to time to see new messages, as it doesn't refresh on its own.

Hopefully at least one single thing I've said here will be useful for you 😍

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 28/02/2019 00:01, molly the blind tech lover escreveu:

Hi.

I have problems with facebook but with the messenging thing. It won’t tell you if the message was sent and I can’t find the send button.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 7:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Facebook, comments and suggestions

 

Hi all,
Does anyone here uses Facebook and is having problems when trying to mention someone on a comment?
I did notice it just now and tried everything that I could think of to see if I could fix it and nothing worked at all.
When commenting, NVDA won't read the suggestions when writing parts of a name, as it used to do before.
For what it matters, using Firefox.

--

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook



Re: Facebook, comments and suggestions

Kwork
 

And when you refresh the page on m.facebook.com it's done by the normal method of using the f5 key. I have no idea for laptop layout.

Travis

On 2/28/2019 6:54 AM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Molly,
Three things:
1. Using Messenger, you need to type your message, quit the typing mode of NVDA (which I never remember the right name, guess it's focus mode) then search for the send button arrowing down from where you are.

2. Another way, (simpler and quicker) to send a message is just hit enter right after writing your message.
I'm not sure if it works but I have a feeling it does.
If it works, remember then that if you're wanting to write something with more than one line, pressing enter to jump to a new line will actually send your message. In this case, use shift+enter to create a new one.

3. Last but not least, you have what I use most of the time.
You could simply use the Messages' section from http://m.facebook.com, it has a very intuitive interface.
The only downside is you'll need to refresh the page from time to time to see new messages, as it doesn't refresh on its own.

Hopefully at least one single thing I've said here will be useful for you 😍

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 28/02/2019 00:01, molly the blind tech lover escreveu:

Hi.

I have problems with facebook but with the messenging thing. It won’t tell you if the message was sent and I can’t find the send button.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 7:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Facebook, comments and suggestions

 

Hi all,
Does anyone here uses Facebook and is having problems when trying to mention someone on a comment?
I did notice it just now and tried everything that I could think of to see if I could fix it and nothing worked at all.
When commenting, NVDA won't read the suggestions when writing parts of a name, as it used to do before.
For what it matters, using Firefox.

--

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook


Re: POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Horses for courses.
Is all I'll say.

One can back up pop3 fine, and the various settings as well, well you can on Outlook Distress at least. The rules are part of the registry.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <@britechguy>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]


On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 11:33 AM, Antony Stone wrote:


depending on your requirements there is nothing unwise about POP3.
But, just for the ease of changing computers when you need to or e-mail clients when you want or need to, even on a single machine, it is unwise. The amount of work needed (if you want to port your messages, and most do) is immense with POP and virtually non-existent with IMAP.

These are things that a very great many people really don't think about until confronted with it, and then it's far, far too late. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and I have yet to find a single "plus" to POP in the age of IMAP. [And I've been around since well before the age of IMAP.]

When something is clearly better when the entire picture is taken into account, it's simply better, and using something almost destined to cause additional work and/or heartache at some point in the unspecified future is unwise.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

locked Re: [POP] Saving messages from an account to export to another and one more question

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Basically pop3 is when you actually download the messages and can sort them at your end. Imap is a synchronising system where what is on the remote server is what is on your computer. This means that you can move messages within imap yourself and they will stay on the remote server as well, but pop 3 allows offline rules which is why I use it. I think if you have imap and pop3 access to the same account you can just delete the ones you want to on imap, then either move thee ones you want to keep manually to other folders on that imap interface, or then go and download what is left to the pop3 version and use rules to sort the messages there. Beware though as I found out the hard way that my ISP seems to have only limited sync between pop3 and Imap meaning that if I delete them on Imap they still download from pop3, but if I move spam on Imap to inbox I get those also delivered to pop3.

I know Google seems to have a slightly different way of working as if I delete my email on,, say my Iphone on a gmail account it won't download it to pop3, so assuming the Iphone is using Imap, then they obviously enforce the rules


Really I agree its a nightmare, but if you think what you actually want to do and ignore the Imap, then does it really matter if the inbox on there is a mess, you really only need to look at spam and move to inbox for the stuff to be delivered.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "marcio via Groups.Io" <marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 7:07 PM
Subject: [nvda] [POP] Saving messages from an account to export to another and one more question


Hi,
As the mod kindly asked to the old thread about POP to be closed I'm
starting this new one to ask it.

When I ask for a way to backup my messages, actually, I'm talking about
saving them.
Let me try to explain it better.
I use POP and I delete most of the messages right after
reading/answering themm. However, there are those that I want to keep
(and I do), some of them way behind from a month.
What I want, then, is to save these messages in a way that I could put
them back on my other profile that I'm thinking about creating with IMAP.

I also would like to know if there's any difference regarding how
Thunderbird deal with these messages using IMAP instead of POP. There'll
be some difference when I open a message to read, to see its attachments
and such?

Thanks in advance :)
--

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook <https://facebook.com/firirinfonfon>



Re: POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,


This probably varies from mail program to mail program, but when using Thunderbird, you can back up almost everything by doing the following.


1.  Close Thunderbird.

2.  From the run dialogue, type %appdata% and press enter.

3.  You are in the roaming folder.  This folder contains all the application data, settings, address book and e-mails from Thunderbird.

4.  navigate to the folder named Thunderbird and when highlighted, press control + C to copy that folder.

5.  Then paste this folder onto a thumb drive, external hard drive or some similar device and you have everything backed up.

6.  Now if for some reason, you need a fresh install of Thunderbird or if you get a new computer and use Thunderbird, you can simply install Thunderbird and navigate to the Roaming folder as described in steps 1 through 3 above and paste the contents of the Thunderbird folder that you have copied into the Roaming folder.


I do this every few days to keep the mail and settings of Thunderbird backed up.


On 2/28/2019 1:14 PM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
100% agreed. Very, very well said, indeed.

Now I definitely would like to know how I can backup my messages. I never did it before just because I never knew it was even possible. Help me with this, please?

Em 28/02/2019 15:09, Travis Siegel escreveu:

Wishing something would go away because it doesn't fit your definition of what is useful is just plain silly.

If that were the case, then I wish narrator would go away, I whish jaws wold go away, I wish windows would go away.  Hell, I wish microsoft would go away.

\See, it serves no purpose.

There are people who use pop3, and it works just fine for them.  There are definitely use cases where pop3 is a better fit than imap, and there are use cases where imap is clearly the better alternative.  Wishing one or the other would go away is just ignorance talking.

If you don't wish to use it, then don't, but that doesn't mean that others who are fully aware of what they're getting, and do wish to use it shouldn't do so.  I for one much prefer pop3, for several reasons, including disk usage, security, issues, ease of backup, and others.

When folks talk about folks loosing years worth of emails because they used pop3, my question is did those folks ever backup their mail? I'm thinking no.  Sure, it's not the easiest thing to move mail from one email client to another, but you're just as likely to loose all your imap messages if your email provider goes bye-bye as well, and nobody here can tell me that's never happened.

It's six of one, and half dozen of the other, use what works for you, and allow others to use what works for them.


On 2/28/2019 12:47 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

With my old internet provider, I had a pop 3 account. After I got to a certain amount of messages, my email started bouncing. I don't think people are using pop so much anymore but I could be wrong. I wish pop 3 would go away too.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

Yes you can. I have about 200 thousand messages on gmail's server and it doesn't really complain at me. You can also clean them up using iMap as well. I use iMap and wish that pop 3 would just go away and die. All the email and attachments are backed up in the cloud and no matter what device as stated you are on you can always get your mail. I lost over 3 years worth of messages once so am not going back to pop3.

On 28 Feb 2019, at 7:49, Gene wrote:

I don't use IMAP so others can answer the question.  But I'm sure you can delete messages if you wish.  As I understand it, you can keep a large number on the server if you wish. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 9:37 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

Em 28/02/2019 12:34, Gene escreveu:

unless you want a permanent collection of all your received messages off site. 

Does it means that using IMAP I won't be able to delete any message?

Cheers,


Virus-free. www.avast.com

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

locked [POP] Saving messages from an account to export to another and one more question

 

Hi,
As the mod kindly asked to the old thread about POP to be closed I'm starting this new one to ask it.

When I ask for a way to backup my messages, actually, I'm talking about saving them.
Let me try to explain it better.
I use POP and I delete most of the messages right after reading/answering themm. However, there are those that I want to keep (and I do), some of them way behind from a month.
What I want, then, is to save these messages in a way that I could put them back on my other profile that I'm thinking about creating with IMAP.

I also would like to know if there's any difference regarding how Thunderbird deal with these messages using IMAP instead of POP. There'll be some difference when I open a message to read, to see its attachments and such?

Thanks in advance :)
--

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook

Re: POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

Brice Mijares
 

Do you mean making different folders to save messages?

On 2/28/2019 10:06 AM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
I'm thinking about changing to IMAP. Now if only I could ever find a way to save messages from this Thunderbird profile, I'm sure I'd do it.
Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook <https://facebook.com/firirinfonfon>
Em 28/02/2019 13:26, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

Yes you can. I have about 200 thousand messages on gmail's server and it doesn't really complain at me. You can also clean them up using iMap as well. I use iMap and wish that pop 3 would just go away and die. All the email and attachments are backed up in the cloud and no matter what device as stated you are on you can always get your mail. I lost over 3 years worth of messages once so am not going back to pop3.

On 28 Feb 2019, at 7:49, Gene wrote:

I don't use IMAP so others can answer the question. But I'm sure
you can delete messages if you wish.  As I understand it, you can
keep a large number on the server if you wish.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* marcio via Groups.Io
<mailto:marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io>
*Sent:* Thursday, February 28, 2019 9:37 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for
Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

Em 28/02/2019 12:34, Gene escreveu:
unless you want a permanent collection of all your received
messages off site.
Does it means that using IMAP I won't be able to delete any message?

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook <https://facebook.com/firirinfonfon>

Re: Problem with windows10 OCR and NVDA

molly the blind tech lover
 

That would be nice

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 11:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with windows10 OCR and NVDA

 

Would be cool if Microsoft would add the ability to send an entire Image/file/PDF to the Windows OCR module in a single step. Believe JAWS already has a feature like that with its OCR facility. This way the entire file could be easily read after the OCR has been processed.

 

On 2/25/2019 9:01 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hi. In my experience it only recognizes a single screen. I needed to use it to read a chapter of my textbook and it only recognized a few sentences. It also only recognized one slide at a time when I needed to use it to access a powerpoint.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with windows10 OCR and NVDA

 

Good question, I would ask the same.

Em 25/02/2019 10:44, Gene escreveu:

does that mean that the NVDA OCR feature only can recognize a single screen or can it recognize an entire document?  I haven't played with this to any extent.  In Notepad. if you open a document, it is all one single object and can all be read with the screen review keys so you aren't limited to one screen when in object review.  What about a document you use the OCR feature on? 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 7:13 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with windows10 OCR and NVDA

 

It seems the keys to perform such a command using the laptop layout are NVDA+Shift+up arrow.
I found it by going to the keystrokes reference.

By the way, Rui, thanks for the clarification :)
I'll play with it taking this advice into account and see what I can get.

Em 25/02/2019 09:50, Nevzat Adil escreveu:

"If you want to perform the OCR to  all the window, you will need to
move the navegation object to the window itself, pressing
NVDA+NumPad8..."
 
How does this apply if using a laptop instead of desktop?
 
On 2/25/19, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@...> wrote:
Hello!
 
Please, remember one thing...
 
When you perform the OCR, using NVDA in Windows 10, pressing NVDA+R, the
OCR is applied only to the object focused by NVDA...
 
By instance, if you are in a dialog type, "save as" and focused in the
Save button, the OCR result will be only "Save", the text of the focused
object, the Save button.
If you want to perform the OCR to  all the window, you will need to move
the navegation object to the window itself, pressing NVDA+NumPad8...
 
Regards,
 
Rui Fontes
 
 
Às 11:54 de 25/02/2019, marcio via Groups.Io escreveu:
Just adding
While with this message opened I tried to OCR just for fun, seeing what
I would get.
What a surprise, the OCR worked just like a charm.
Weird!
 
Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook <https://facebook.com/firirinfonfon>
 
Em 25/02/2019 08:48, marcio via Groups.Io escreveu:
Very same here!
And I'm also using the latest NVDA Alpha with Win 10 1803.
Well I'm not using the latest at all because I need to update to the
very latest so to speak which showed up just now. I'll do it sometime
later, I guess.
However, the message I get is absolutely the same and no, I don't
think just updating to the latest Alpha will fix it since aparently
the folks on the NVDA dev side weren't aware of it.
Let's wait...
 
Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook <https://facebook.com/firirinfonfon>
 
Em 25/02/2019 08:31, Mallard escreveu:
Yes, here too. Something must be broken, because I've opened a pdf
that is perfectly visible with any pdf reading apps, including Edge.
 
I tried opening with Sumatra pdf, which only shows the image and not
the text. Usually, when I do that, I can view the page with Inw10
OCR. Now it keeps saying
 
 
"Content not visible" (contenuto non visibile in Italian).
 
 
No idea what could have happened.
 
I'm using the latest Alpha of NVDA and Windows 10 1803.
 
 
Ciao,
 
Ollie
 
 
 
 
Il 25/02/2019 11:57, marcio via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Same here. I don't have Jaws to test with, though, so don't know if
it would be different.
Anyone to help us? :)
 
Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook <https://facebook.com/firirinfonfon>
 
Em 25/02/2019 06:15, Aravind R escreveu:
Dear friends,
 
I am trying to do OCR with pdf using NVDA+r in windows10.
Wherever i try, it is saying "Recognising result document" but
nothing
is displayed and its working well with jaws's built-in ocr.
Kindly guide where changes to be made to make work with windows10 OCR
 

 

 

Re: Facebook, comments and suggestions

 

It's just that I'd like to see the suggestions when I'm going to tag someone. I was able to do it before, but now it's gone :(

Hopefully this will get back to the usual as I haven't checked again yet.

Em 28/02/2019 13:12, Travis Siegel escreveu:

Yes, pressing enter sends the message.  As far as mentioning folks in a comment, just type their name, no issues occur that way, and the person is flagged.  I've never bothered with the facebook pulldowns to select a person, I just type their name in full, and it always tags them in the message.  Simple solution.  Of course, if you don't know the name you're trying to tag, that could be problematic, but that's a different issue.






Re: POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

Nimer Jaber
 

In reading all these messages, it seems that this thread is at an impass. I think that Pop is awful, and I think that anyone who thinks that it is worth using is ignoring the reality that it is a terrible standard that leaves too much to chance and causes more trouble than it is worth, yet I read Travis' messages and he seems to find value in it. Either way, I am pretty sure that we have exhausted this topic to death, and at this point it isn't relevant whatsoever to NVDA. Let's try to bring this topic to a close, shall we?

Thanks.


On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 11:10 AM Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...> wrote:

Wishing something would go away because it doesn't fit your definition of what is useful is just plain silly.

If that were the case, then I wish narrator would go away, I whish jaws wold go away, I wish windows would go away.  Hell, I wish microsoft would go away.

\See, it serves no purpose.

There are people who use pop3, and it works just fine for them.  There are definitely use cases where pop3 is a better fit than imap, and there are use cases where imap is clearly the better alternative.  Wishing one or the other would go away is just ignorance talking.

If you don't wish to use it, then don't, but that doesn't mean that others who are fully aware of what they're getting, and do wish to use it shouldn't do so.  I for one much prefer pop3, for several reasons, including disk usage, security, issues, ease of backup, and others.

When folks talk about folks loosing years worth of emails because they used pop3, my question is did those folks ever backup their mail? I'm thinking no.  Sure, it's not the easiest thing to move mail from one email client to another, but you're just as likely to loose all your imap messages if your email provider goes bye-bye as well, and nobody here can tell me that's never happened.

It's six of one, and half dozen of the other, use what works for you, and allow others to use what works for them.


On 2/28/2019 12:47 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

With my old internet provider, I had a pop 3 account. After I got to a certain amount of messages, my email started bouncing. I don't think people are using pop so much anymore but I could be wrong. I wish pop 3 would go away too.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

Yes you can. I have about 200 thousand messages on gmail's server and it doesn't really complain at me. You can also clean them up using iMap as well. I use iMap and wish that pop 3 would just go away and die. All the email and attachments are backed up in the cloud and no matter what device as stated you are on you can always get your mail. I lost over 3 years worth of messages once so am not going back to pop3.

On 28 Feb 2019, at 7:49, Gene wrote:

I don't use IMAP so others can answer the question.  But I'm sure you can delete messages if you wish.  As I understand it, you can keep a large number on the server if you wish. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 9:37 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

Em 28/02/2019 12:34, Gene escreveu:

unless you want a permanent collection of all your received messages off site. 

Does it means that using IMAP I won't be able to delete any message?

Cheers,


Virus-free. www.avast.com



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Re: POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

100% agreed. Very, very well said, indeed.

Now I definitely would like to know how I can backup my messages. I never did it before just because I never knew it was even possible. Help me with this, please?

Em 28/02/2019 15:09, Travis Siegel escreveu:

Wishing something would go away because it doesn't fit your definition of what is useful is just plain silly.

If that were the case, then I wish narrator would go away, I whish jaws wold go away, I wish windows would go away.  Hell, I wish microsoft would go away.

\See, it serves no purpose.

There are people who use pop3, and it works just fine for them.  There are definitely use cases where pop3 is a better fit than imap, and there are use cases where imap is clearly the better alternative.  Wishing one or the other would go away is just ignorance talking.

If you don't wish to use it, then don't, but that doesn't mean that others who are fully aware of what they're getting, and do wish to use it shouldn't do so.  I for one much prefer pop3, for several reasons, including disk usage, security, issues, ease of backup, and others.

When folks talk about folks loosing years worth of emails because they used pop3, my question is did those folks ever backup their mail? I'm thinking no.  Sure, it's not the easiest thing to move mail from one email client to another, but you're just as likely to loose all your imap messages if your email provider goes bye-bye as well, and nobody here can tell me that's never happened.

It's six of one, and half dozen of the other, use what works for you, and allow others to use what works for them.


On 2/28/2019 12:47 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

With my old internet provider, I had a pop 3 account. After I got to a certain amount of messages, my email started bouncing. I don't think people are using pop so much anymore but I could be wrong. I wish pop 3 would go away too.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

Yes you can. I have about 200 thousand messages on gmail's server and it doesn't really complain at me. You can also clean them up using iMap as well. I use iMap and wish that pop 3 would just go away and die. All the email and attachments are backed up in the cloud and no matter what device as stated you are on you can always get your mail. I lost over 3 years worth of messages once so am not going back to pop3.

On 28 Feb 2019, at 7:49, Gene wrote:

I don't use IMAP so others can answer the question.  But I'm sure you can delete messages if you wish.  As I understand it, you can keep a large number on the server if you wish. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 9:37 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

Em 28/02/2019 12:34, Gene escreveu:

unless you want a permanent collection of all your received messages off site. 

Does it means that using IMAP I won't be able to delete any message?

Cheers,


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Wishing something would go away because it doesn't fit your definition of what is useful is just plain silly.

If that were the case, then I wish narrator would go away, I whish jaws wold go away, I wish windows would go away.  Hell, I wish microsoft would go away.

\See, it serves no purpose.

There are people who use pop3, and it works just fine for them.  There are definitely use cases where pop3 is a better fit than imap, and there are use cases where imap is clearly the better alternative.  Wishing one or the other would go away is just ignorance talking.

If you don't wish to use it, then don't, but that doesn't mean that others who are fully aware of what they're getting, and do wish to use it shouldn't do so.  I for one much prefer pop3, for several reasons, including disk usage, security, issues, ease of backup, and others.

When folks talk about folks loosing years worth of emails because they used pop3, my question is did those folks ever backup their mail? I'm thinking no.  Sure, it's not the easiest thing to move mail from one email client to another, but you're just as likely to loose all your imap messages if your email provider goes bye-bye as well, and nobody here can tell me that's never happened.

It's six of one, and half dozen of the other, use what works for you, and allow others to use what works for them.


On 2/28/2019 12:47 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

With my old internet provider, I had a pop 3 account. After I got to a certain amount of messages, my email started bouncing. I don't think people are using pop so much anymore but I could be wrong. I wish pop 3 would go away too.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

Yes you can. I have about 200 thousand messages on gmail's server and it doesn't really complain at me. You can also clean them up using iMap as well. I use iMap and wish that pop 3 would just go away and die. All the email and attachments are backed up in the cloud and no matter what device as stated you are on you can always get your mail. I lost over 3 years worth of messages once so am not going back to pop3.

On 28 Feb 2019, at 7:49, Gene wrote:

I don't use IMAP so others can answer the question.  But I'm sure you can delete messages if you wish.  As I understand it, you can keep a large number on the server if you wish. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 9:37 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

Em 28/02/2019 12:34, Gene escreveu:

unless you want a permanent collection of all your received messages off site. 

Does it means that using IMAP I won't be able to delete any message?

Cheers,


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

I'm thinking about changing to IMAP. Now if only I could ever find a way to save messages from this Thunderbird profile, I'm sure I'd do it.
Em 28/02/2019 13:26, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

Yes you can. I have about 200 thousand messages on gmail's server and it doesn't really complain at me. You can also clean them up using iMap as well. I use iMap and wish that pop 3 would just go away and die. All the email and attachments are backed up in the cloud and no matter what device as stated you are on you can always get your mail. I lost over 3 years worth of messages once so am not going back to pop3.

On 28 Feb 2019, at 7:49, Gene wrote:

I don't use IMAP so others can answer the question.  But I'm sure you can delete messages if you wish.  As I understand it, you can keep a large number on the server if you wish. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

Em 28/02/2019 12:34, Gene escreveu:
unless you want a permanent collection of all your received messages off site. 
Does it means that using IMAP I won't be able to delete any message?

Cheers,

Re: POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

Monte Single
 

I use pop3.

I have no problems with it.

Sometimes I  been away for a week or more and found a thousand messages waiting on the server.

Works for me.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: February-28-19 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

With my old internet provider, I had a pop 3 account. After I got to a certain amount of messages, my email started bouncing. I don't think people are using pop so much anymore but I could be wrong. I wish pop 3 would go away too.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

Yes you can. I have about 200 thousand messages on gmail's server and it doesn't really complain at me. You can also clean them up using iMap as well. I use iMap and wish that pop 3 would just go away and die. All the email and attachments are backed up in the cloud and no matter what device as stated you are on you can always get your mail. I lost over 3 years worth of messages once so am not going back to pop3.

On 28 Feb 2019, at 7:49, Gene wrote:

I don't use IMAP so others can answer the question.  But I'm sure you can delete messages if you wish.  As I understand it, you can keep a large number on the server if you wish. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 9:37 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

Em 28/02/2019 12:34, Gene escreveu:

unless you want a permanent collection of all your received messages off site. 

Does it means that using IMAP I won't be able to delete any message?

Cheers,

Re: Facebook, comments and suggestions

 

2018.4.1 next version nvda release date please ?

On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 9:12 PM Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...> wrote:
Yes, pressing enter sends the message.  As far as mentioning folks in a
comment, just type their name, no issues occur that way, and the person
is flagged.  I've never bothered with the facebook pulldowns to select a
person, I just type their name in full, and it always tags them in the
message.  Simple solution.  Of course, if you don't know the name you're
trying to tag, that could be problematic, but that's a different issue.




Re: POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

With my old internet provider, I had a pop 3 account. After I got to a certain amount of messages, my email started bouncing. I don't think people are using pop so much anymore but I could be wrong. I wish pop 3 would go away too.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

Yes you can. I have about 200 thousand messages on gmail's server and it doesn't really complain at me. You can also clean them up using iMap as well. I use iMap and wish that pop 3 would just go away and die. All the email and attachments are backed up in the cloud and no matter what device as stated you are on you can always get your mail. I lost over 3 years worth of messages once so am not going back to pop3.

On 28 Feb 2019, at 7:49, Gene wrote:

I don't use IMAP so others can answer the question.  But I'm sure you can delete messages if you wish.  As I understand it, you can keep a large number on the server if you wish. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 9:37 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

Em 28/02/2019 12:34, Gene escreveu:

unless you want a permanent collection of all your received messages off site. 

Does it means that using IMAP I won't be able to delete any message?

Cheers,

Re: POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

 

On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 11:33 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
depending on your requirements there is nothing unwise about POP3.
But, just for the ease of changing computers when you need to or e-mail clients when you want or need to, even on a single machine, it is unwise.  The amount of work needed (if you want to port your messages, and most do) is immense with POP and virtually non-existent with IMAP.

These are things that a very great many people really don't think about until confronted with it, and then it's far, far too late.   An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and I have yet to find a single "plus" to POP in the age of IMAP.  [And I've been around since well before the age of IMAP.]

When something is clearly better when the entire picture is taken into account, it's simply better, and using something almost destined to cause additional work and/or heartache at some point in the unspecified future is unwise.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Re: POP is unwise [was: Being Unsubscribed for Marking Messages as Spam #adminnotice]

Antony Stone
 

Thanks for the comprehensive clarification of what you meant by "unwise".

I agree that IMAP is better-featured, supports multiple devices more easily,
and places the data retention responsibility on your service provider rather
than you.

I still think this doesn't equate to "unwise", however - POP3 may be more
limited, and it's certainly older (although that doesn't necessarily mean
worse), but as you say, depending on your requirements there is nothing unwise
about POP3.

Thanks again,


Antony.

On Thursday 28 February 2019 at 17:21:06, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 09:35 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
What is unwise about using POP these days?
1. If you only access your e-mail from one, and only one, device, and wish
to be responsible for backing up all the messages that exist only on your
device after download, and you wish to be responsible for trying to port a
huge number of messages from one e-mail client to another should you
choose to change clients then there is nothing unwise about POP.

2. If you're like most users these days, and you have every intention of
accessing your e-mail messages on multiple devices while having what each
"sees" remain in sync, then POP as conventionally configured does a
horrible job of supporting that while IMAP is designed to support that
from the get-go.

3. IMAP messages and all folders associated with same are retained on the
e-mail server and, as a result, are part of the data center's daily (if
not more frequent) backup protocol. The probability of ever losing
something permanently is exceedingly small. By contrast, I have seen POP
users lose years worth of downloaded messages on several occasions when
they were not backing up their own computers and their hard drives failed
catastrophically.

The fact of the matter is that POP (Post Office Protocol) was the first
e-mail protocol and really is an anachronism that remains supported in the
name of backward compatibility. It's shortcomings are myriad, and
particularly when you want e-mail synchronization and portability from
device to device to device over time to be almost effortless (you only
have to set up the account again if you're using IMAP and - poof, like
magic - all of your messages and folders appear).

IMAP is also more space efficient on your own device, because only message
headers are downloaded for presentation in the message list in folders,
with the exception of the most recent messages, which will often have
message bodies downloaded in advance as well for some time period back
from today (say, 2 weeks - it's configurable) because the probability of
actual accessing of newer messages is far, far higher than old ones. You
can also specify specific messages to retain their local message bodies
permanently if you know you make very frequent reference to them so
they'll be available even if you're offline.

For the way most people use e-mail these days, including the bulk of folks
here, as many describe having computer(s) and smartphone(s) on which they
wish to get their e-mail, using the access method suited to it, and that
protects the actual message data the best, is what's wisest. If your
e-mail service provides IMAP access, well . . .

If you fit the profile I noted in #1 above then nothing that follows it is
relevant to you. I find it improbable that everything in #1 above applies
to practically anyone these days.

[And, before anyone jumps in with, "But you can configure POP to leave
messages on the server!," well, yes, you can, but you have to make the
effort to do that in the vast majority of cases, and many would have
absolutely no idea of how to do so. Why use an antiquated protocol that
must be rigged when a better alternative exists?]
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need
for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

--
I don't know, maybe if we all waited then cosmic rays would write all our
software for us. Of course it might take a while.

- Ron Minnich, Los Alamos National Laboratory

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.

Re: Golden Cursor question

Sarah k Alawami
 

I have it set up like that on mac. Where ever my pc curser is my mouse curser follows etc. Where ever my mouse curser is my pc curser follows. I love it and clicking is way easier when I have to. Hmm. If I could code I'd make an add on for that.

On 28 Feb 2019, at 8:11, Gene wrote:

I haven't checked.  I'm not sure whether it is a good idea.  others may have comments.  Sometimes just moving the mouse may cause things to occur that you may not want.  But I haven't experimented with this enough to know if it would cause inconveniences or problems often enough to worry about. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message
From: Kenny
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

So basically you use the Review cursor to navigate the screen. Then when you land on a spot which you want to click, you route the mouse pointer to that review cursor position [NVDA]+[Slash] and then hit [Slash] to left mouse click on it?


Is there an      option that will automatically tether the mouse pointer to the review cursor, so I only need press [Slash] to click on an element, without having to route to it first?


On 2/18/2019 12:00 PM, Gene wrote:
In the following response, I shall give desktop layout commands.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know those commands for what we are discussing.
 
There aren't specifically mouse movement keys such as in JAWS.  Read the review section of the manual or the relevant parts.  5.5 is a relevant section.  I'm not sure if there are any others.  You will see such commands as num[pad 9, move to next line, numpad 8, read current line, numpad 7 move to and read previous line.  These are review keys and don't affect the application, they review the screen.  I'm talking about what they do in screen review mode.  They have similar functions when in object navigation but they apply to the object that has focus.
 
To move the mouse to the review position, use the command numpad insert numpad slash.  To left click the mouse, use numpad slash. To right click, use numpad Times, which I believe is also the asterisk.  It's immediately to the right of numpad slash.  
 
If you can't find how to do something in NVDA, it is not good methodology or procedure to assume that it can't be done.  Asking here may provide information about how to do it or of an add-on that does.
 
Gene  
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

Hello Jean,

 

So what are the mouse movement keys via the keyboard then?  I’m sorry I can’t find them.

 

Thanks.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 18 February 2019 08:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

You can move the mouse with the keyboard now.  You can't move it as precisely.  I don't have an opinion about whether the Golden Cursor features should be incorporated into the source code.  But your implication that the mouse can't be moved without the Golden Cursor is not correct.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 2:27 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Jean,

 

I think the whole Golden Cursor thing should be in NVDA to be honest.  The ability to move the mouse using the keyboard has been in screen readers, since the invention of Windows.

 

Supernova has it, System Access has it, JAWS has it, Window-Eyes was best at it, and so on.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 17 February 2019 20:08
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

The search feature should, I think, be in NVDA, not in the Golden Cursor. This is important funcionality and is too important to depend on a user downloading an add-on to have it available.

 

Gene 

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2019 1:58 PM

Subject: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Hi,

 

In my efforts to find out if Golden Cursor is as good as the mouse with JAWS, I’d say not quite.  Let me explain.

 

I just downloaded it, and there seems to be no way to search for a string of text within GC and have the mouse land on that text, so you can just click it, without routing, saving positions, etc.

 

Could this possibly be added?  A Mouse Search in NVDA?  I use Search in JAWS cursor all the time, and it moves the mouse to where I want it.

 

Or am I really stupid and missing it?

 

Someone suggested that GC does more than the JAWS cursor, but I don’t really see that.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

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