Date   

Re: Giving the right amount of feedback

 

Tyler,
I can confirm some of these things you said on your message, specially items 3 and 5.

3. NVDA uses a keyboard hook to intercept all keys. Sometimes it gets into a state where it doesn't pass the keys anywhere.
the result of this is your keyboard no longer works, except for win+l and ctrl+alt+delete. If you press ctrl+alt+delete, you might think you can launch task manager.
As soon as you do, you're back on your normal desktop with NVDA still capturing the keyboard.
The only thing you can do is sign out, losing some or all of your work, or figure out how to kill NVDA either with a second account or with a non-keyboard-based solution.
It used to happen with me quite a while ago. If I'm not going wrong I even posted about it and someone suggested that it could be a problem with my system, something that I was thinking as well, so I just accepted it.
I never thought about using a second account to close NVDA when such a thing happens but this seems like a good solution if it ever happens again. I'll remember it :)

5. If a program stops responding, NVDA goes with it. Take Event Viewer.
View one event's details with enter. From there, press escape and be prepared to figure out how to get NVDA back, because it's most likely going to stop speaking.
Well, usually in such cases I will just do a CTRL+ALT+N and I'm all set again. I would love if everything were too easy :)

6. We know that in notepad, WordPad, Microsoft Word, and other applications, we can press ctrl+f to find things.
However, in browsers, we need to use ctrl+NVDA+f. Why? Because NVDA doesn't want to override the inaccessible browser find dialog.
Ok, this is something I definitely remember posting about, right here. Then someone said they could use the CTRL+F command everywhere and NVDA works just fine, and I'm trying to find out what's the magic behind it until now. Glad to know I'm not alone on this :)

Now, although I've confirmed these points, I don't blame the NVDA developers for all of this. Maybe fixing these things isn't something too easy and since I'm only a user, with very little knowledge about programming, I don't have a clue of the complexity behind it. So maybe we could try and see their side as well, after all despite some annoyances here and there nowadays we have NVDA as an excellent screen reader, and its success among the blind folks only goes to prove it.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!


Re: best site for addons

Luke Davis
 

Just to clarify: when you go to the NVDA menu, tools, Manage Add-ons, and select "get add-ons", which takes you to the page referenced in this thread a few times already, you aren't seeing Windows 10 App Essentials?

It is several headings down, but you should be seeing it there. If you aren't, then the webpage people gave you isn't going to help much.

On Mon, 22 Jul 2019, Joe Paton wrote:

I don't see some addons mentioned here, on the nv.access site. Where should I be going for the latest addons for example windows 10 app essentials?
What am I missing apart from a brain cell?


Re: dicts in python

Kerryn Gunness
 


thanks
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] dicts in python

Explain what?

If you are looking for information regarding coding of Python dictionaries that wouldn't be something that's on-topic for this group, but is right up the alley of the NVDA Screen Reader Development Group, whose e-mail addresses are included for reference:


The folks there can also point you in the right direction if the nitty-gritty of what you want to do isn't really NVDA-related, but more of a Python coding enterprise.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: best site for addons

Chris
 

The official addons repository is...

 

https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html

 

From: Joe Paton
Sent: 22 July 2019 21:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] best site for addons

 

Hello,

 

I don't see some addons mentioned here, on the nv.access site.  Where

should I be going for the latest addons for example windows 10 app

essentials?

What am I missing apart from a brain cell?

 

JP?

 

 

 


Re: dicts in python

 

Explain what?

If you are looking for information regarding coding of Python dictionaries that wouldn't be something that's on-topic for this group, but is right up the alley of the NVDA Screen Reader Development Group, whose e-mail addresses are included for reference:


The folks there can also point you in the right direction if the nitty-gritty of what you want to do isn't really NVDA-related, but more of a Python coding enterprise.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


dicts in python

Kerryn Gunness
 

guys
could someone explain the subject line using NVDA?
how does it work and how to write it
thanks


Re: best site for addons

Sam Bushman
 

How do you add the emoticons?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] best site for addons

Here's the link 😊

https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Paton
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] best site for addons

Hello,

I don't see some addons mentioned here, on the nv.access site. Where should I be going for the latest addons for example windows 10 app essentials?
What am I missing apart from a brain cell?

JP?


Re: best site for addons

molly the blind tech lover
 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Paton
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] best site for addons

Hello,

I don't see some addons mentioned here, on the nv.access site. Where should I be going for the latest addons for example windows 10 app essentials?
What am I missing apart from a brain cell?

JP?


best site for addons

Joe Paton
 

Hello,

I don't see some addons mentioned here, on the nv.access site. Where should I be going for the latest addons for example windows 10 app essentials?
What am I missing apart from a brain cell?

JP?


Re: CodeFactory eloquence and vocalizer combined addon

Gene
 

I see you have punctuation processing off.  Try turning it on.  If that doesn't help, turn it off again, and try using the speech dictionary.  Try placing a colon in the word field and a space in the pronounced as field and see what happens.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] CodeFactory eloquence and vocalizer combined addon

Hi,

I tested the NVDA eloquence/vocalizer nvda-addon from atguys.com and it does the same thing. It pauses significantly when reading the time. NVDA punctuation is set to some, and in eloquence settings I have the emoji processing and punctuation processing, number processing, and dictionary all turned off and unchecked. In fact everything in there is unchecked because I prefer to control it with the NVDA dialogs instead.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: CodeFactory eloquence and vocalizer combined addon

Gene
 

Its probably pausing excessively at the colon.  I don't know if you can correct the problem.  it sounds like a problem in the programming itself. 
Is there a setting regarding the add-on or the SAPI 5 program that allows you to make the screen-reader handle punctuation or to let the screen-reader handle aspects of how things are read that are now lleft to the synthesizer?
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] CodeFactory eloquence and vocalizer combined addon

Hi,

I tested the NVDA eloquence/vocalizer nvda-addon from atguys.com and it does the same thing. It pauses significantly when reading the time. NVDA punctuation is set to some, and in eloquence settings I have the emoji processing and punctuation processing, number processing, and dictionary all turned off and unchecked. In fact everything in there is unchecked because I prefer to control it with the NVDA dialogs instead.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


CodeFactory eloquence and vocalizer combined addon

Josh Kennedy
 

Hi,

I tested the NVDA eloquence/vocalizer nvda-addon from atguys.com and it does the same thing. It pauses significantly when reading the time. NVDA punctuation is set to some, and in eloquence settings I have the emoji processing and punctuation processing, number processing, and dictionary all turned off and unchecked. In fact everything in there is unchecked because I prefer to control it with the NVDA dialogs instead.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


CodeFactory sapi5 eloquence and reading the time and date

Josh Kennedy
 

Hi,

With sapi5 eloquence by CodeFactory, when I press insert f12 for the time, eloquence reads it, but pauses for a long time in the middle of reading it. Like this.

 

 

12 … 32 … pm …

 

What settings in NVDA or in the CodeFactory eloquence can I change so it does not pause?

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Giving the right amount of feedback

Tyler Spivey
 

I agree with you, and it's not just state transitions.

NVDA really doesn't focus on user experience, and it shows. I can count some things off the top of my head.

1. The focus issues. There are threads about this on this list. I seem to remember there being code in NVDA which will drop focus events if too many of them come in.
2. If you have NVDA going through a specific audio device and you switch your default, NVDA will simply stop speaking, or switch to another audio device.
3. NVDA uses a keyboard hook to intercept all keys. Sometimes it gets into a state where it doesn't pass the keys anywhere.
the result of this is your keyboard no longer works, except for win+l and ctrl+alt+delete. If you press ctrl+alt+delete, you might think you can launch task manager.
As soon as you do, you're back on your normal desktop with NVDA still capturing the keyboard.
The only thing you can do is sign out, losing some or all of your work, or figure out how to kill NVDA either with a second account or with a non-keyboard-based solution.
4. NVDA has a review cursor. In consoles and edit fields, if I press NVDA+backspace, NVDA moves my navigator to the focus, where I can use that review cursor to review my text again if I moved it.
This is useful for, say, finding the top of a function in my editor without moving the system cursor.
However, what happens if you do this same thing in browse mode? Your navigator gets moved to the focus, but you then can't move the review cursor around like you could when you first entered the browser. IIRC this is by design.
5. If a program stops responding, NVDA goes with it. Take Event Viewer.
View one event's details with enter. From there, press escape and be prepared to figure out how to get NVDA back, because it's most likely going to stop speaking.
6. We know that in notepad, WordPad, Microsoft Word, and other applications, we can press ctrl+f to find things.
However, in browsers, we need to use ctrl+NVDA+f. Why? Because NVDA doesn't want to override the inaccessible browser find dialog.

I'm sure I'm missing a few things. But IMO, none of this is good user experience.


On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 12:49 AM, Perry Simm wrote:
Hi!
Lately I've been wondering about the research that has been done to figure out the right amount of feedback that NVDA should give in different circumstances. These thoughts were triggered by the following incident:
I opened up Chrome, and it came up "not responding" which, on a slow machine, can sometimes happen and is no immediate cause of concern for me. My Braille display kept showing "New Tab - Google Chrome (Not Responding)". I decided to wait it out before throwing key presses at it. When neither speech nor Braille updated for about two minutes, I decided to press tab and, much to my confusion, found that Chrome had recovered and was fully prepared to take my instructions.
When something goes from not responding to ready, wouldn't it be logical to expect NVDA to tell me about this transition without me having to poll?
I have a nagging suspicion, and I apologize for sounding overly critical here, that these user experience patterns are not researched at all, not even consciously specified. Rather, they are just left to random luck based on how the operating system decides to handle or propagate events. In a world where nearly every aspect of user experiences is designed and micromanaged, I feel we are lagging behind and left with unprofessional hit or miss situations. What we need are reliable, reproducible patterns or sequences which can be taught to students, fully duplicated by them, and then applied consistently, especially in workplace environments. State transitions like the one I described above must be just as obvious to the NVDA user as they are to the sighted user if he or she has been trained to recognize them.
This is not rocket science. If fifty years ago it was possible to program a computer to behave consistently enough to get people to the moon, then today it must not only be possible but trivial to program it to deal consistently with common everyday exceptions while working with email and the web. For people on the autism spectrum, for example, digital systems can be a bedrock of certainty and consistency in an otherwise random sea of white noise.
I am seeing strong indicators that user experience research in the area of screen readers is overdue. Most importantly, however, the user experience should always be a conscious decision, never left to fate or accident.
Cheers Perry


Re: taking ownership of files

 

A Chat Subgroup topic will not be necessary, as Josh has posted to several other venues, including the Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users group, where this level of detail is decidedly on topic.

For those interested, see the topic there entitled:   Taking Ownership of System Files under Windows 10
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: want fire fox

Jarek.Krcmar
 

Hello,

it's better to download from:

http://www.mozilla.org

Jarek

Dne 22.07.2019 v 6:51 sazid shaik napsal(a):

as i used to download from filehippo.com
as coming to favorite no idea. now the fire fox is crashing and it is
not working on windows sirvice pack . hence i need fire fox<div
id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br />
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On 7/22/19, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hello.
whats your favorite version of firefox?
i am sure that all versions of firefox are accessible.
where you download your firefox from?

On 7/22/19, sazid shaik <ashwaqahmed.nlr@...> wrote:
hello friends,
i am using windows 7, version 6.1 with service pack 1. I am unable to
open fire fox on my system.

hence i request to share accessible fire fox version.

thanks and regards,
sazid



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali



--
Jarek


Re: taking ownership of files

 

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 02:59 PM, JM Casey wrote:
Maybe someone more familiar with these settings can chime in. I admit I was a bit confused and feel like I kind of muddled my way through to success.
I just figured out how to do this.   That being said, the "how to" is so unrelated to anything NVDA-specific that it should be taken to the Chat Subgroup.

If anyone wants to discuss this in detail, launch a topic there and I will chime in.   I see no point in starting one myself since I do not know whether those who may be interested have or have not subscribed to the Chat Subgroup.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: windows oneCore voices pause for punctuation

 

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 10:09 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
There is a third dimension introduced in 2019.2: rate boost for OneCore.
Thanks for the heads-up!

Like so many things, there are many times when tweaking one thing in one spot will not carry over to other spots because there's something else in those other spots that takes precedence.   Interactions are a PITA, and it seems that volume settings are another of those areas where issues crop up where multiple levels of control are involved.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: windows oneCore voices pause for punctuation

 

Hi,

There is a third dimension introduced in 2019.2: rate boost for OneCore.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 7:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows oneCore voices pause for punctuation

 

I'm just curious if this is an issue no matter what the voice speed?

You can nudge the voice speed up in Windows and couple that with NVDA tweaks, too.

If you go to Settings, Time & Language, Speech, under the Voices section you should see the OneCore voice you're using (and I'm presuming you're using one) with a slider beneath it for Voice Speed and a button beneath that to Preview Voice.

You also need to look at what the Voice Rate in NVDA is set to, as these two things play off each other.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: windows oneCore voices pause for punctuation

 

I'm just curious if this is an issue no matter what the voice speed?

You can nudge the voice speed up in Windows and couple that with NVDA tweaks, too.

If you go to Settings, Time & Language, Speech, under the Voices section you should see the OneCore voice you're using (and I'm presuming you're using one) with a slider beneath it for Voice Speed and a button beneath that to Preview Voice.

You also need to look at what the Voice Rate in NVDA is set to, as these two things play off each other.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide