Date   

Object mode

Inam Uddin
 

Respected friends, can anyone refreshes my memory by telling me the command of getting object mode in NVDA?

With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID:

Charlsdarwin1

 

 

arguing with a woman is just like reading software’s lisence agreement.

At the end you ignore Her everything  and click I agree button.

You can contact me via gmail:

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outlook:

inam092@...

yahoo:

inamuddin2010@...

AOL:

charlsdarwin1969@...

Join me with my Skype ID:

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See me on facebook:

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Follow me on my twitter:

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Mobile phone:

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Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

Luke Davis
 

How about "Edit Keys and Gestures" then?

On Sun, 21 Jul 2019, Marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

Luke,
From all of your suggestions the more I liked better was the "Keyboard and Gesture Management".
"Edit Key Commands and Touch Gestures" isn't bad either, yet too verbose and that's why this isn't my choice instead.
And while we are on this, I'd like to suggest something. Itt would be nice to have a topic open for these suggestions. This topic would be active for a few
days then after this someone would gather the most suitable ones and put them into a poll. What y'all think?
Cheers,
Marcio
AKA Starboy
Sent from a galaxy far, far away.
--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much
more!


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

 

I wrote:
the more I liked better was the "Keyboard and Gesture Management".
It should be "the one I liked better". Guess I need to pay more attention to what I'm writing LOL

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Luke,
From all of your suggestions the more I liked better was the "Keyboard and Gesture Management".
"Edit Key Commands and Touch Gestures" isn't bad either, yet too verbose and that's why this isn't my choice instead.

And while we are on this, I'd like to suggest something. Itt would be nice to have a topic open for these suggestions. This topic would be active for a few days then after this someone would gather the most suitable ones and put them into a poll. What y'all think?

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

Luke Davis
 

I have always thought calling it "input Gestures" was a bit absurd, seeming to prioritize the idea of touch gestures over keys in the language, when exactly the opposite is the case in practical use.

Anything is better than what's there now, but I would personally like something along the lines of Keyboard and Gesture Manager, or Keyboard and Gesture Management.
Or possibly better: Remap Keys and Gestures.

Or maybe more newbie friendly still: Edit Key Commands and Touch Gestures.

Luke


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

 

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 04:43 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I interpret that as" terminal commands" not keyboard and gesture commands."
Why?   There are not and never have been terminal/command line commands (other than for starting it) for NVDA.

There is absolutely no legitimate context for that interpretation.   We are talking about "within NVDA" here.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

Sarah k Alawami
 

Good idea, but no. I interpret that as" terminal commands" not keyboard and gesture commands."

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 21 Jul 2019, at 10:55, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Hmmm, I see.

How about renaming it to something to the effect of, “Manage commands”? That may allow the original intent to be kept while making it more user friendly. It may also allow translators to translate this concept more easily.

The obvious downside is extensive edits to tutorials, websites, training materials, user guide and such, but I don’t consider this a downside – rather, an opportunity to change it based on more user feedback.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Being a tech geek from way back, I can categorically state that this is yet another instance where "tech brevity" is being valued over end user understanding.  It happens again and again and again.

"Input contols - keyboard commands, touch gestures, etc." as a descriptive in these programs, which is a simple thing to do, makes the intention entirely clear.

Microsoft was just as guilty of this with the inane "toast" notifications.   No one would instantly recognize that these are notifications that slide in at the lower right hand side of the screen by default.   "Slide-in" notifications at least makes it clear what the behavior is, whether you can see it or not, and allows both the sighted and the blind to be "on the same page" about what's being looked out for.

It just drives me insane that the "user ergonomics" of software is still so little considered.   I am only too well aware that at the setting by setting level this becomes an impossible nightmare for any truly complex piece of software, but at the broad categories and first level of subdivision of those it should be pretty simple.  I'd have the previously mentioned "Input Controls" fully articulated label then under that it would be broken into Keyboard Commands, Touch Gestures, Other [e.g. Pen or something that hasn't even been invented yet].
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

Rui Fontes
 

Why not "Manage commands" and "Commands help"?
After all, keystrokes, from a keyboard or Braille display, touchs on screen and so on, are all commands for NVDA...

Rui Fontes


Às 19:57 de 21/07/2019, Gene escreveu:

I see.  I thought NVDA key 1 was input gestures but evidently, it's just input help. Input help is a reasonable name for that feature.
Manage commands sounds alright for the dialog.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Joseph Lee <mailto:@joslee>
*Sent:* Sunday, July 21, 2019 1:10 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands
Hi,
We’re talking about two different things: the suggested text refers to what is now known as “Input Gestures” dialog. NVDA+number row 1 may change to something more descriptive and not too verbose.
Cheers,
Joseph
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:05 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands
Manage commands means that you can define or redefine or map commands by invoking the NVDA 1 command.  Why not just call it what it is, keyboard and gestures help.  Or something else, if there is as good alternative descriptive language but I can think of no other comprehensive and accurate way to say this that will be 8understandable to the gggeneral user.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Joseph Lee <mailto:@joslee>
*Sent:*Sunday, July 21, 2019 12:55 PM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands
Hi,
Hmmm, I see.
How about renaming it to something to the effect of, “Manage commands”? That may allow the original intent to be kept while making it more user friendly. It may also allow translators to translate this concept more easily.
The obvious downside is extensive edits to tutorials, websites, training materials, user guide and such, but I don’t consider this a downside – rather, an opportunity to change it based on more user feedback.
Cheers,
Joseph
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:45 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands
Being a tech geek from way back, I can categorically state that this is yet another instance where "tech brevity" is being valued over end user understanding.  It happens again and again and again.
"Input contols - keyboard commands, touch gestures, etc." as a descriptive in these programs, which is a simple thing to do, makes the intention entirely clear.
Microsoft was just as guilty of this with the inane "toast" notifications.   No one would instantly recognize that these are notifications that slide in at the lower right hand side of the screen by default.   "Slide-in" notifications at least makes it clear what the behavior is, whether you can see it or not, and allows both the sighted and the blind to be "on the same page" about what's being looked out for.
It just drives me insane that the "user ergonomics" of software is still so little considered.   I am only too well aware that at the setting by setting level this becomes an impossible nightmare for any truly complex piece of software, but at the broad categories and first level of subdivision of those it should be pretty simple.  I'd have the previously mentioned "Input Controls" fully articulated label then under that it would be broken into Keyboard Commands, Touch Gestures, Other [e.g. Pen or something that hasn't even been invented yet].
--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362
*The color of truth is grey.*
~ André Gide


Re: taking ownership of files

JM Casey
 

Hi.
That won't work by itself. You need to actually go into the properties of the .ini file as an administrator and change their ownership settings in the security tab. I was able to do this after a lot of experimenting, but recently haven't been able to duplicate the steps. I know it can be done, though. Maybe someone more familiar with these settings can chime in. I admit I was a bit confused and feel like I kind of muddled my way through to success.

By the way, a quick way to run a programme (like notepad) as administrator:
Open the run box
Type in notepad
Don't hit enter, but use ctrl-shift-enter instead.
The user account control dialogue will appear if you have it set to do so.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: July 21, 2019 2:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] taking ownership of files

Run Notepad as an administrator.
1) type notepad.exe in the search window. (press windows key or go to start menu to get there).
2) Right-click (applications key, shift f10, NVDA's right click facility), & select 'Run as Administrator' from the context menu that appears.

On 7/21/19, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...> wrote:
Hi,
I am trying to change the pause length in the .ini files for the
oneCore voices. But it won’t let me save my new settings once I edit
the ini files in notepad. I also tried copying, editing then replacing
the old files with the new edited ones and it says I need permission to copy to that folder.
How do I take ownership of those “ini” files so I can edit and save
them to improve the way the oneCore voices speak?

Josh


Sent from Mail for Windows 10





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Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

Gene
 

I see.  I thought NVDA key 1 was input gestures but evidently, it's just input help. Input help is a reasonable name for that feature.
 
Manage commands sounds alright for the dialog. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

Hi,

We’re talking about two different things: the suggested text refers to what is now known as “Input Gestures” dialog. NVDA+number row 1 may change to something more descriptive and not too verbose.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Manage commands means that you can define or redefine or map commands by invoking the NVDA 1 command.  Why not just call it what it is, keyboard and gestures help.  Or something else, if there is as good alternative descriptive language but I can think of no other comprehensive and accurate way to say this that will be 8understandable to the gggeneral user.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 12:55 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Hi,

Hmmm, I see.

How about renaming it to something to the effect of, “Manage commands”? That may allow the original intent to be kept while making it more user friendly. It may also allow translators to translate this concept more easily.

The obvious downside is extensive edits to tutorials, websites, training materials, user guide and such, but I don’t consider this a downside – rather, an opportunity to change it based on more user feedback.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Being a tech geek from way back, I can categorically state that this is yet another instance where "tech brevity" is being valued over end user understanding.  It happens again and again and again.

"Input contols - keyboard commands, touch gestures, etc." as a descriptive in these programs, which is a simple thing to do, makes the intention entirely clear.

Microsoft was just as guilty of this with the inane "toast" notifications.   No one would instantly recognize that these are notifications that slide in at the lower right hand side of the screen by default.   "Slide-in" notifications at least makes it clear what the behavior is, whether you can see it or not, and allows both the sighted and the blind to be "on the same page" about what's being looked out for.

It just drives me insane that the "user ergonomics" of software is still so little considered.   I am only too well aware that at the setting by setting level this becomes an impossible nightmare for any truly complex piece of software, but at the broad categories and first level of subdivision of those it should be pretty simple.  I'd have the previously mentioned "Input Controls" fully articulated label then under that it would be broken into Keyboard Commands, Touch Gestures, Other [e.g. Pen or something that hasn't even been invented yet].
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: taking ownership of files

Jackie
 

Run Notepad as an administrator.
1) type notepad.exe in the search window. (press windows key or go to
start menu to get there).
2) Right-click (applications key, shift f10, NVDA's right click
facility), & select 'Run as Administrator' from the context menu that
appears.

On 7/21/19, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...> wrote:
Hi,
I am trying to change the pause length in the .ini files for the oneCore
voices. But it won’t let me save my new settings once I edit the ini files
in notepad. I also tried copying, editing then replacing the old files with
the new edited ones and it says I need permission to copy to that folder.
How do I take ownership of those “ini” files so I can edit and save them to
improve the way the oneCore voices speak?

Josh


Sent from Mail for Windows 10




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Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
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& check out my sites at www.brighter-vision.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

Ed Marquette
 

Why not something simple like “managing input“ or “manage input.“ That would cover all forms of input: keyboard voice, and so on.


On Jul 21, 2019, at 1:10 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

We’re talking about two different things: the suggested text refers to what is now known as “Input Gestures” dialog. NVDA+number row 1 may change to something more descriptive and not too verbose.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Manage commands means that you can define or redefine or map commands by invoking the NVDA 1 command.  Why not just call it what it is, keyboard and gestures help.  Or something else, if there is as good alternative descriptive language but I can think of no other comprehensive and accurate way to say this that will be 8understandable to the gggeneral user.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 12:55 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Hi,

Hmmm, I see.

How about renaming it to something to the effect of, “Manage commands”? That may allow the original intent to be kept while making it more user friendly. It may also allow translators to translate this concept more easily.

The obvious downside is extensive edits to tutorials, websites, training materials, user guide and such, but I don’t consider this a downside – rather, an opportunity to change it based on more user feedback.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Being a tech geek from way back, I can categorically state that this is yet another instance where "tech brevity" is being valued over end user understanding.  It happens again and again and again.

"Input contols - keyboard commands, touch gestures, etc." as a descriptive in these programs, which is a simple thing to do, makes the intention entirely clear.

Microsoft was just as guilty of this with the inane "toast" notifications.   No one would instantly recognize that these are notifications that slide in at the lower right hand side of the screen by default.   "Slide-in" notifications at least makes it clear what the behavior is, whether you can see it or not, and allows both the sighted and the blind to be "on the same page" about what's being looked out for.

It just drives me insane that the "user ergonomics" of software is still so little considered.   I am only too well aware that at the setting by setting level this becomes an impossible nightmare for any truly complex piece of software, but at the broad categories and first level of subdivision of those it should be pretty simple.  I'd have the previously mentioned "Input Controls" fully articulated label then under that it would be broken into Keyboard Commands, Touch Gestures, Other [e.g. Pen or something that hasn't even been invented yet].
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Hi,

We’re talking about two different things: the suggested text refers to what is now known as “Input Gestures” dialog. NVDA+number row 1 may change to something more descriptive and not too verbose.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Manage commands means that you can define or redefine or map commands by invoking the NVDA 1 command.  Why not just call it what it is, keyboard and gestures help.  Or something else, if there is as good alternative descriptive language but I can think of no other comprehensive and accurate way to say this that will be 8understandable to the gggeneral user.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 12:55 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Hi,

Hmmm, I see.

How about renaming it to something to the effect of, “Manage commands”? That may allow the original intent to be kept while making it more user friendly. It may also allow translators to translate this concept more easily.

The obvious downside is extensive edits to tutorials, websites, training materials, user guide and such, but I don’t consider this a downside – rather, an opportunity to change it based on more user feedback.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Being a tech geek from way back, I can categorically state that this is yet another instance where "tech brevity" is being valued over end user understanding.  It happens again and again and again.

"Input contols - keyboard commands, touch gestures, etc." as a descriptive in these programs, which is a simple thing to do, makes the intention entirely clear.

Microsoft was just as guilty of this with the inane "toast" notifications.   No one would instantly recognize that these are notifications that slide in at the lower right hand side of the screen by default.   "Slide-in" notifications at least makes it clear what the behavior is, whether you can see it or not, and allows both the sighted and the blind to be "on the same page" about what's being looked out for.

It just drives me insane that the "user ergonomics" of software is still so little considered.   I am only too well aware that at the setting by setting level this becomes an impossible nightmare for any truly complex piece of software, but at the broad categories and first level of subdivision of those it should be pretty simple.  I'd have the previously mentioned "Input Controls" fully articulated label then under that it would be broken into Keyboard Commands, Touch Gestures, Other [e.g. Pen or something that hasn't even been invented yet].
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

Gene
 

Manage commands means that you can define or redefine or map commands by invoking the NVDA 1 command.  Why not just call it what it is, keyboard and gestures help.  Or something else, if there is as good alternative descriptive language but I can think of no other comprehensive and accurate way to say this that will be 8understandable to the gggeneral user.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

Hi,

Hmmm, I see.

How about renaming it to something to the effect of, “Manage commands”? That may allow the original intent to be kept while making it more user friendly. It may also allow translators to translate this concept more easily.

The obvious downside is extensive edits to tutorials, websites, training materials, user guide and such, but I don’t consider this a downside – rather, an opportunity to change it based on more user feedback.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Being a tech geek from way back, I can categorically state that this is yet another instance where "tech brevity" is being valued over end user understanding.  It happens again and again and again.

"Input contols - keyboard commands, touch gestures, etc." as a descriptive in these programs, which is a simple thing to do, makes the intention entirely clear.

Microsoft was just as guilty of this with the inane "toast" notifications.   No one would instantly recognize that these are notifications that slide in at the lower right hand side of the screen by default.   "Slide-in" notifications at least makes it clear what the behavior is, whether you can see it or not, and allows both the sighted and the blind to be "on the same page" about what's being looked out for.

It just drives me insane that the "user ergonomics" of software is still so little considered.   I am only too well aware that at the setting by setting level this becomes an impossible nightmare for any truly complex piece of software, but at the broad categories and first level of subdivision of those it should be pretty simple.  I'd have the previously mentioned "Input Controls" fully articulated label then under that it would be broken into Keyboard Commands, Touch Gestures, Other [e.g. Pen or something that hasn't even been invented yet].
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


taking ownership of files

Josh Kennedy
 

Hi,

I am trying to change the pause length in the .ini files for the oneCore voices. But it won’t let me save my new settings once I edit the ini files in notepad. I also tried copying, editing then replacing the old files with the new edited ones and it says I need permission to copy to that folder. How do I take ownership of those “ini” files so I can edit and save them to improve the way the oneCore voices speak?

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Hi,

I see.

Quentin, any thoughts? I’m willing to work on this for 2019.3 provided that we get more user feedback.
Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Joseph,

            It makes a lot more sense than what's there now.

            That being said, one of my points is that there are times when brevity serves an important purpose and others where it obscures.   In structures meant to guide an end user (or even a tech that probably doesn't touch this stuff with any frequency) somewhere it's better to err on the side of "length that guides" rather than economy of words when said economy obscures.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Joseph,

            It makes a lot more sense than what's there now.

            That being said, one of my points is that there are times when brevity serves an important purpose and others where it obscures.   In structures meant to guide an end user (or even a tech that probably doesn't touch this stuff with any frequency) somewhere it's better to err on the side of "length that guides" rather than economy of words when said economy obscures.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Hi,

Hmmm, I see.

How about renaming it to something to the effect of, “Manage commands”? That may allow the original intent to be kept while making it more user friendly. It may also allow translators to translate this concept more easily.

The obvious downside is extensive edits to tutorials, websites, training materials, user guide and such, but I don’t consider this a downside – rather, an opportunity to change it based on more user feedback.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Being a tech geek from way back, I can categorically state that this is yet another instance where "tech brevity" is being valued over end user understanding.  It happens again and again and again.

"Input contols - keyboard commands, touch gestures, etc." as a descriptive in these programs, which is a simple thing to do, makes the intention entirely clear.

Microsoft was just as guilty of this with the inane "toast" notifications.   No one would instantly recognize that these are notifications that slide in at the lower right hand side of the screen by default.   "Slide-in" notifications at least makes it clear what the behavior is, whether you can see it or not, and allows both the sighted and the blind to be "on the same page" about what's being looked out for.

It just drives me insane that the "user ergonomics" of software is still so little considered.   I am only too well aware that at the setting by setting level this becomes an impossible nightmare for any truly complex piece of software, but at the broad categories and first level of subdivision of those it should be pretty simple.  I'd have the previously mentioned "Input Controls" fully articulated label then under that it would be broken into Keyboard Commands, Touch Gestures, Other [e.g. Pen or something that hasn't even been invented yet].
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

 

Being a tech geek from way back, I can categorically state that this is yet another instance where "tech brevity" is being valued over end user understanding.  It happens again and again and again.

"Input contols - keyboard commands, touch gestures, etc." as a descriptive in these programs, which is a simple thing to do, makes the intention entirely clear.

Microsoft was just as guilty of this with the inane "toast" notifications.   No one would instantly recognize that these are notifications that slide in at the lower right hand side of the screen by default.   "Slide-in" notifications at least makes it clear what the behavior is, whether you can see it or not, and allows both the sighted and the blind to be "on the same page" about what's being looked out for.

It just drives me insane that the "user ergonomics" of software is still so little considered.   I am only too well aware that at the setting by setting level this becomes an impossible nightmare for any truly complex piece of software, but at the broad categories and first level of subdivision of those it should be pretty simple.  I'd have the previously mentioned "Input Controls" fully articulated label then under that it would be broken into Keyboard Commands, Touch Gestures, Other [e.g. Pen or something that hasn't even been invented yet].
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Re: Can I change NVDA key commands

Gene
 

That is an invalid assumption.  Gestures means something you do to indicate something or something you do on a screen.  When have the developers ever once, before the advent of the touch screen, heard or seen anyone refer to a gesture when describing a keystroke.  Pressing a key is moving a mechanical switch, not a gesture and it still isn’t refered to as one.  . 
 
Developers aren’t professional writers generally, they are developers.  Those who really know language and who pay close attention to useage and meaning should be given good attention when such things are brought up.  I was an English major before unexpectedly leaving college.  And I’ve read enough about philosophy to be very aware of the importance of defining terms.  Who do the developers consult when making such a decission based on a suggestion or complaint?  I’m not assuming they don’t consult such people but it is a question worth getting an answer to.
 
Brian, from my past observation, is another person who pays careful attention to precise use of language.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands
 

Hi,

I think part of the reason for going that route is our (NVDA developers’) assumption that gestures can encompass input methods such as keyboards, touch, braille, and so many possibilities. JAWS has issues with this too, in that the headquarters for configuring commands is called “keyboard manager” when in fact it can be used to assign braille and touchscreen shortcuts.

I think I saw a GitHub issue that asks NV Access to change this to something more meaningful – if I do find it and if there is justification for it, I’ll ask NV Access people to take a look at it again. If NVDA developers agree that it should be changed, it will be done for a future release (not now due to more important road paving operations taking place at the moment).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I change NVDA key commands

 

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 11:32 AM, Joseph Norton wrote:

I saw “input gestures” on the menu, but, thought it only applied to touch gestures, so didn’t try it.

I've actually complained on this list (but I don't think on github) about this very unfortunate choice of terminology.   Your presumption that gestures applies to touch actions is almost universal across the UI world.  Keyboard shortcuts are not gestures and never the twain shall meet.

There are often separate keyboard shortcuts and touch gestures to do the same thing which clearly indicates their separation as entities.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide