Date   
Re: using win 7 after january 2020

Arlene
 

I had to upgrade to ten. My system got too old. Back in 2016 when you got this free trial to try ten. I don’t know if my old acer was able to handle it.  It had burned out ports. Plus the sound card got burned out.  I do banking online.  That’s why I did upgrade to ten. Even if 7 was not going to be supported next year. I was going to leave it anyway for that reason! 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: March 11, 2019 1:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

 

To be honest, if you have a coppy of windows 7 and use anything from an intel 530 to an intel 6th gen 6000 series, unless you really want win10 I wouldn't bother with win10.

Especially if you have older hardware, a single hard drive, etc.

Now if you have an ssd or maybe a duel drive system, maybe its worth wile.

And if you have a newer ac dule wireless system and do use a dule capible router you probably should do this as well.

I have just updated to fibre mind you, and after adjusting my channels and frequency ranges and filters for certain ranges, I have increased my download speed from 36mbps to 75mbps, its not all of the 105mbps I can use via lan but its quite fast.

True on the other side I lost 2mbps on the upload stream but we can't have everything.

The other reason you wouldd want win10 on a new device would be simply because the new multiband wireless cards can support the upper range a bit better, my old n only wireless device said it could support upper ranges but it became unstable at that range, we will see exactly what that means, however even if that becomes the case, my wireless extender does not change channels or at least you can't do that manually, but its retuned to sub channel5 offof the main unit so lets hope it remains empty of devices.

If you use an intel 7th gen and or up then you will need windows 10.

If you have an amd box from whatever they started with up to a12, you should be ok, but the new rysen series needs win10.

If you have an old out of date hd series video card then there are no newer drivers for you so you may want to either replace that or not upgrade.

You can and I have people that have  but have had so many system issues they had to abandon their aging hardware.

Another thing to note when upgrading is that while previous versions of windows from win95 to windowsxp and as far as vista and 7 didn't care about hardware bar what can run on them windows 10 is quite picky especially if your hardware gets more than 4-5 years old.

Technically it supports most stuff but there are always issues with a lot of lower hardware.

I wouldn't update to win10 unless you want to and just because you can.

In fact, if you have the room, I'd get a modern windows box for secured online stuff and if you can afford it win7 or even xp for off net stuff.

There is no need for win10 if all you will be doing is listening to media, general email and brousing and if you have a smart phone you can get rid of that.

If you start to shop or bank online then maybe you should for security reasons.

Now now I have my workstation I'm not going back to my crappy 3rd generation windows 7 laptop.

I have got used to a lot of windows10's shortcomings and really love it.

Of course winaero tweaker and ribbon disabler make the os more usable as an os without destractions.

Now if you do have the ability to go fibre and or mobile wireless then win10 is essential for best out of your new gear.

But I used vdsl on win7 for ages, and dsl before that back to xp when I used dialup.

If you don't have anything faster then dsl, or vdsl or still use dialup, windows10 won't give you anything at this stage.

And to be honest while I  don't have a system that uses it, I do have a coppy of windows xp and a coppy of windows 7 I own from various custom built workstations.

True windows7 won't have much use fully online but when or if I get an older box for whatever windows 10 is not going to be put on it.

 

 

On 12/03/2019 2:50 AM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

Good points raised here!
I, myself, actually only have updated to Win 10 because I had to take a new laptop.
When I first started, I even thought of formating the toy and putting Win 7 onto it, but some features of Win 10 got me curious so I wound up staying with what I've already had.
However I wouldn't hurry anyone to update to Win 10 if they don't want to, at this point I don't think they really need it.


Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy


Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 11/03/2019 09:00, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

To be honest it may take a little longer for microsoft to completely kill windows7.

While a lot of even x lease units are now win10, there are still x lease win7 units about and even in some rare cases you still can buy a few older generations of win7 workstations of 4-6th generation.

Its likely that thats all going to be phased out but even if it is, I doubt windows7 or even 8 when it finnally dropps out of support will actually drop completely.

Firstly, while xp actually was really on the way out, all oses from vista up use almost the same stuff.

Dot net 4.6 and 4.7 are supported on all windows systems from 7 up, visual basic up to vb 2015-2017 are still supported, as well as dotnet.

Drivers for hardware if you know where to go are all supported on the older systems to, there is a lot of modern hardware that while it runs on 10 will still be supported on 7 and even 8 in fact a lot of win 8 and 8.1 software and drivers will run on windows 10 not really recommended but I have some sound card drivers from win7/8 which run fine without issues.

To be honest, its going to be harder for microsoft to drop win7 and or even 8, for starters, there is a lot of hardware about, some workstations still use 7, and while a lot of businesses are now going to 10, thats only happening as of now, when they replace computers, I know this because of family that are in business.

With xp, people I talked to said they only updated to win7 when windows 10 was starting out, in fact they only started win7 with the 2015 version of windows 10 when that was coming out, going to 7.

Some others may wait longer or shorter times.

Its going to even be harder with windows 8 when microsoft finally cans it.

The only reason to not use win7 possibly is if you want to use a more powerfull system than the intel 6th gen, and after their security nightmare, effecting all systems, from what I hear from people that know, all the security measures in both firmware and windows mitigations have basically crapified the entire 7-8th generation and the 8th generation completely with reduced speed.

Its why I moved to amd which while it does share some similarities with the intel breaches has more protections than intel because of older technologies being used.

Bar the interface in win8x, the only reason you probably would want to switch would be because you would like universal apps or something.

With the universal nature of hardware its going to be harder and a longer time before all that stuff dies.

Whats going to probably eventually happen, is that hardware will stop being supported and other things but there is more of that than win xp ever had.

The only other reason to even concidder upgrading to win10 is to use usb c tech.

Its faster but the ports and plugs mean that basically 99.99999% of usb devices don't work on usb c meaning you have to buy more hubs to fit things in.

Now I have seen usb c storage and a few things but its still got to mature.

My origional plan was to get a 6th gen or a quad 7th gen with all ports or basically usb 2 and 3 like I used to have with my 3rd gen.

This amd system has usb 2 and usb 3.1 class a which means I get all the generation upgrades but not c.

Another issue I have with the new systems is the god awefull microphone and speaker input jack.

This means that even with effects off, the sound for the speakers and externals is emulated to a point.

This means I need audio drivers running at startup in order to have it emulate the right device properly.

I have tried without drivers and the card amp in this beast is to powerfull to run right.

Older units and some newer ones have this sort of thing in and not the 2 stand alone outputs.

The other god awefull thing that I really hate about the modern systems is the tieing of all their sound hardware to the display chip.

I understand why they do it, but after the god awefull time I had in 1995 when sound was tied to the cd drive I thought everyone had learned their lesson.

My asus workstation's card is a card not tied to anything, a 4th gen.

Then again maybe it is the blind that overtax their cards to a point the limiters trip.

Back in the day when volume controls, stand alone cards analog ones mainly and real speakers existed we didn't have any of this stupidness.

Now it works but there is a lot of emulation.

And due to the size of the speakers unless you get an entertainment, gaming or small workstation like I have the speakers are really small that effects are needed for sound to sound even half good.

Eventually windows 7 like xp will become utter crap, but its going to get longer.

Xp was allready being phased out by newer things, win98, 95, and old dos went the same way as well as win2k, me and probably win 8 and vista.

Sadly, win7 has a lot going for it.

There is still a lot of good tech that will be win7 able for ages yet.

And as I said, we would need a big change to really role users over to 10 at least any time fast.

From technical trends that myself and a friend are following who is in the security industry, the biggest threat is forging business emails, as businesses and indeviduals get smarter, the threat of ransomware is dropping to a point we can handle it reasonably well.

Won't be gone completely but still.

Unlike xp, there is no real advantage to really upgrade over win7 on its own.

With the loss of office 2010-2016 coming up in the next few years, that may be enough, and the processer limitations but there are hacks round that.

As long as  there are still people and businesses using it win7 will continue.

Another thing for 7 and against 10 is the fact microsoft has pulled out a lot of legacy stuff which is still used.

Things like midi mappers, and some stuff to run older games and programs which 7 even 64 bit can run with ease.

This is probably why microsoft went with win10 as a service, I mean why would you ever leave windows 10.

Unless your processer is really old, you wouldn't.

The intel 6gen has stopped production as of last year, 7th is still about but dropping out now.

Things may pick up with intel 9th gen maybe.

Microsoft have addressed some of the performance bottlenecks in the mitigations for intel cpus but still.

It will be harder to get rid of win7 and 8 than microsoft actually thinks.

Win8's interface may drive people to 10, and 8 will drop but 7 is unlikely to become as xp is.

Even so, people only dropped xp when their support libraries no longer worked with it.

To be honest, the only reason some stuff like older windows could be effected is if and when microsoft dropps 32 bit support.

Or at least 32 bit os versions.

A lot of programs use 32 and 64 bit code, nvda being one of them.

What will probably shove things along is the end of 32 as a hardware architecture.

32 bit machines havn't been made in ages and ages.

The reason 32 bit continues is that a few systems are still running with 1-4gb ram mainly and the fact a few older programs still exist.

Even if ms were to drop win7 support now, I doubt we'd see any real change for at least a decade or even more.

With all the cloud services and portables what we may see is a cludge of oses and devices being used at once.

 

 

 

On 11/03/2019 10:18 PM, Ian Blackburn wrote:

You can continue to use Windows 7 after the end date in the same way that people are still using Windows XP

But you take the risk of some sort of attack due to the fact that holes in the operating system are not being patched by the supplier

That’s a risk that you choose to take or not depending on your situation


On 11 Mar 2019, at 4:47 pm, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

 

 

 

Re: Issues navigating Google Scholar search results

Gene
 

What browser is being used? 
 
Have you tried using k and shift k to move by link instead of tabbing after you have moved to a heading?
 
Gene

Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 6:57 PM
Subject: [nvda] Issues navigating Google Scholar search results

Hello NVDA Group

Has anyone stumbled across the following navigation issue using NVDA and Google Scholar? Discovered working with a university student trying to conduct research.

Go to Google Scholar and conduct a search. As an example, go to the following search 'traits characteristic entrepreneur'.

Navigate the page using the H key to jump to each H3 search result, the H key will focus to the H3 link and you can navigate to the search result.

Some results appear with a [HTML] or [PDF] reference at the start of the H3, this reference is a SPAN tag nested inside the H3 but not within the link reference.

When you navigate to the search result with this reference, the H3 is read out but focus is not directed to the link. If you tab back and forwards you will eventually focus to the link to navigate to the search result.

In the above example, try navigating to the 4th search result, which has a [HTML] reference at the start of the search result.

In the student’s experience, this proved difficult to effectively navigate to search results with the HTML/PDF reference at the start.

This issue does not occur in other screen readers like VoiceOver.

If the HTML/PDF text is wrapped within the H3 and link reference it works fine.

Does anyone have a workaround besides tabbing back and forward? Or is this a bug?

Thanks!

USC, Locked Bag 4, Maroochydore DC, Queensland, 4558 Australia.
CRICOS Provider No: 01595D
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This email is confidential. If received in error, please delete it from your system.

Re: Zoomtext and nvda

 

David,

       The add-on itself appears to be called, NVDA Magnifier Integration Add-On for Windows 7, and is at the site you mention.   It appears to have last been updated in 2015, and the developer who's listed as Dominic Canare <dom@...>, released the code as open-source under GPL license.

        I don't code python, but this does mean that if another developer wished to pick it up and tweak it for Windows 8.1 or 10 it's entirely possible to do so.
   
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Re: Zoomtext and nvda

David Goldfield
 

Aha! I found the addon. It is called Green Light Go and was specifically designed for the Windows 7 Magnifier. This means that the addon may not be fully compatible with the current version of NVDA and, once 2019.2 hits the streets, may not work at all unless the developer has chosen to keep it up to date.

However, for those who are interested the URL is

http://www.greenlightgo.org/projects/nvda/




David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 3/11/2019 9:04 PM, David Goldfield wrote:

While we're on this topic I remember that someone had written an add-on which, more or less, allowed users to operate NVDA along with the Windows Magnifier, treating NVDA as though it were a part of Magnifier, similar to Zoomtext Magnifier/Reader. Of course, this addon was not needed since you could run both at the same time anyway but the addon made it easier to adjust magnification options along with NVDA. I can remember very little else about it and it likely will exhibit issues if it hasn't been updated to support later NVDA versions. It also was not part of the official community addons page although there was nothing illegal or inappropriate about it.


David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com
On 3/11/2019 8:59 PM, David Goldfield wrote:

I had mixed results when attempting to enable full screen magnification on Windows 7. As someone on this list stated it does partly depend on which theme is active. However, even when I was using a supported theme the results were inconsistent. At times, full screen mode from within Magnifier was available, whereas at other times it seemed to mysteriously be unavailable. Perhaps there was a trick or technique that was not obvious to me but, when I was working with Windows 7 with my students, I was not getting consistent results.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com
On 3/10/2019 11:55 PM, Desert Moon via Groups.Io wrote:

Hello Adrian,

 

Windows 7 does not offer full screen magnification. If this is what you need, do explore ZoomText 2019.You can download it from:

 

https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/ZoomText

 

It runs in a 40-minute demo mode. Not portable. That version is sold in a USB stick.

 

Windows 10 offers some high contrast modes and colour filters. Unless you need a peculiar colour scheme, I do not see why you need ZoomText. When it comes to screen reading, NVDA gives you much more than ZoomText can.

 


--
Desert

Re: Zoomtext and nvda

David Goldfield
 

While we're on this topic I remember that someone had written an add-on which, more or less, allowed users to operate NVDA along with the Windows Magnifier, treating NVDA as though it were a part of Magnifier, similar to Zoomtext Magnifier/Reader. Of course, this addon was not needed since you could run both at the same time anyway but the addon made it easier to adjust magnification options along with NVDA. I can remember very little else about it and it likely will exhibit issues if it hasn't been updated to support later NVDA versions. It also was not part of the official community addons page although there was nothing illegal or inappropriate about it.


David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 3/11/2019 8:59 PM, David Goldfield wrote:

I had mixed results when attempting to enable full screen magnification on Windows 7. As someone on this list stated it does partly depend on which theme is active. However, even when I was using a supported theme the results were inconsistent. At times, full screen mode from within Magnifier was available, whereas at other times it seemed to mysteriously be unavailable. Perhaps there was a trick or technique that was not obvious to me but, when I was working with Windows 7 with my students, I was not getting consistent results.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com
On 3/10/2019 11:55 PM, Desert Moon via Groups.Io wrote:

Hello Adrian,

 

Windows 7 does not offer full screen magnification. If this is what you need, do explore ZoomText 2019.You can download it from:

 

https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/ZoomText

 

It runs in a 40-minute demo mode. Not portable. That version is sold in a USB stick.

 

Windows 10 offers some high contrast modes and colour filters. Unless you need a peculiar colour scheme, I do not see why you need ZoomText. When it comes to screen reading, NVDA gives you much more than ZoomText can.

 


--
Desert

Re: Zoomtext and nvda

David Goldfield
 

I had mixed results when attempting to enable full screen magnification on Windows 7. As someone on this list stated it does partly depend on which theme is active. However, even when I was using a supported theme the results were inconsistent. At times, full screen mode from within Magnifier was available, whereas at other times it seemed to mysteriously be unavailable. Perhaps there was a trick or technique that was not obvious to me but, when I was working with Windows 7 with my students, I was not getting consistent results.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 3/10/2019 11:55 PM, Desert Moon via Groups.Io wrote:

Hello Adrian,

 

Windows 7 does not offer full screen magnification. If this is what you need, do explore ZoomText 2019.You can download it from:

 

https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/ZoomText

 

It runs in a 40-minute demo mode. Not portable. That version is sold in a USB stick.

 

Windows 10 offers some high contrast modes and colour filters. Unless you need a peculiar colour scheme, I do not see why you need ZoomText. When it comes to screen reading, NVDA gives you much more than ZoomText can.

 


--
Desert

Re: NVDA questions

Teri McElroy
 

Hello Brian

Yes, I will be using a specific font, and the international phonetic alphabet. Maybe I should take this off list and email you privately unless there are other linguists on list who might be interested and would want to use NVDA to read phonemes to them. In which case they might benefit from the discussion. In the meantime, Brian, I'll email you off list.

Thanks.


Teri

On 12-Mar-19 11:52 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Teri,

          As someone with a master's in speech-language pathology (which involves a lot of "linguistics lite") I think I know what you're requesting.  There are a number of questions, issues, though.

          Am I safe in presuming that the text you need read phoneme by phoneme will be written using the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet)?   If so, are you using a specific IPA font, as that can matter.  I know that Doulos SIL is a popular open-source font that supports the full IPA (even though most of us really don't come anywhere near to using the full IPA, diacritics and all, unless we're linguists, and often not even then).

          I am presuming that the word "sash", for example, would be written as three phonetic characters that you wish to have read as, ess AE-vowel esh
--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*/A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep./*

          ~ Saul Bellow, /To Jerusalem and Back/

Issues navigating Google Scholar search results

Corey Collins
 

Hello NVDA Group

Has anyone stumbled across the following navigation issue using NVDA and Google Scholar? Discovered working with a university student trying to conduct research.

Go to Google Scholar and conduct a search. As an example, go to the following search 'traits characteristic entrepreneur'.

Navigate the page using the H key to jump to each H3 search result, the H key will focus to the H3 link and you can navigate to the search result.

Some results appear with a [HTML] or [PDF] reference at the start of the H3, this reference is a SPAN tag nested inside the H3 but not within the link reference.

When you navigate to the search result with this reference, the H3 is read out but focus is not directed to the link. If you tab back and forwards you will eventually focus to the link to navigate to the search result.

In the above example, try navigating to the 4th search result, which has a [HTML] reference at the start of the search result.

In the student’s experience, this proved difficult to effectively navigate to search results with the HTML/PDF reference at the start.

This issue does not occur in other screen readers like VoiceOver.

If the HTML/PDF text is wrapped within the H3 and link reference it works fine.

Does anyone have a workaround besides tabbing back and forward? Or is this a bug?

Thanks!

USC, Locked Bag 4, Maroochydore DC, Queensland, 4558 Australia.
CRICOS Provider No: 01595D
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
This email is confidential. If received in error, please delete it from your system.

Re: NVDA questions

 

Teri,

          As someone with a master's in speech-language pathology (which involves a lot of "linguistics lite") I think I know what you're requesting.  There are a number of questions, issues, though.

          Am I safe in presuming that the text you need read phoneme by phoneme will be written using the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet)?   If so, are you using a specific IPA font, as that can matter.  I know that Doulos SIL is a popular open-source font that supports the full IPA (even though most of us really don't come anywhere near to using the full IPA, diacritics and all, unless we're linguists, and often not even then).

          I am presuming that the word "sash", for example, would be written as three phonetic characters that you wish to have read as, ess AE-vowel esh
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Re: o t, dvd wripper

Ian Blackburn
 

Vlc can rip nonprotected DVDs to various formats including MP3 and high bit rate MP4


On 12 Mar 2019, at 6:30 am, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io <k_gunness@...> wrote:

thanks sean
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] o t, dvd wripper

Hmph, freemake has opencandy spyware on it.

I use dvd audio extracter, it can't process some of the really encripted videos but it can work.

I also use goldwave for cd wripping and file conversion.

cdbxp can do everything from blueray to cds and has a slim installer.



On 12/03/2019 3:11 AM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Hi,


I use a program called freemakeVC.  I bought the upgrade version because it works faster  and some of the features seem to be more accessible.  This program takes some playing with to get used to the parts that are not quite accessible but once you learn it it is easy to use. 


I use it for DVD ripping and burning.  I also use it to convert audio files to other formats.


Dan Beaver

On 3/11/2019 10:04 AM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:

hi friends
 
do you all no of a program to wripp dvd's ?
 
 
-- 
Dan Beaver (KC4DOY)
.

Re: o t, dvd wripper

Kerryn Gunness
 


thanks sean
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] o t, dvd wripper

Hmph, freemake has opencandy spyware on it.

I use dvd audio extracter, it can't process some of the really encripted videos but it can work.

I also use goldwave for cd wripping and file conversion.

cdbxp can do everything from blueray to cds and has a slim installer.



On 12/03/2019 3:11 AM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Hi,


I use a program called freemakeVC.  I bought the upgrade version because it works faster  and some of the features seem to be more accessible.  This program takes some playing with to get used to the parts that are not quite accessible but once you learn it it is easy to use. 


I use it for DVD ripping and burning.  I also use it to convert audio files to other formats.


Dan Beaver

On 3/11/2019 10:04 AM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:

hi friends
 
do you all no of a program to wripp dvd's ?
 
 
-- 
Dan Beaver (KC4DOY)
.

NVDA questions

Teri McElroy
 

Thanks to everyone who replied to my questions.

Adrian, that was exactly what I needed to find. I am now going to try inputting the 44 english phonemic symbols I need and I think that will do the trick.

I'm glad I can still have a portable version of NVDA which will make life easier in class.

I'm still not sure about whether I can run Eloquence though. If I have purchased the eloquence engine, can I have this on my thumb drive too with the portable version of NVDA or does it have to be installed on the machine. If it does have to be on the computer itself, maybe I can make do with one of the other ones there already like Nathan.

I've still got some testing to do here.

Thanks again.

Teri

With regard to surveys on the NVDA Group, and more generally

 

Subsequent to this morning's quadruple hijacking of threads, which as my earlier admin notice addressed directly, Gene asked what follows, and it warrants an answer, and on this forum since it's where everything being questioned occurred:

On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 04:04 PM, Gene wrote:
Not only has the person hijacked three different messages without even changing the subject line, he has given no information about how the survey will be used.  Is it for a course?  Will it be submitted to a government agency or a university department that deals with accessibility? 
 
Everyone and his brother wants blind people to take surveys.  What justifies taking this one? 
First, and foremost, what follows is in no way justifying hijacking topics.  That simply is not done!

That being said, this survey was originally posted to the Chat Subgroup, at my explicit instruction, on March 5th, here:

Survey evaluation of learning experience in higher education for blind and visually impaired individuals               

and with my posting an additional, "Hey, take a look!," topic on the main group on that same date:

 See On Chat: Survey evaluation of learning experience in higher education for blind and visually impaired individuals


We have several issues here, one of which is English as a second language and another of which being lack of familiarity with formal research protocols.  Even with those, this was clearly identified in the original messages as academic research for a thesis, "This survey is a part of the research project that aims to evaluate the quality of education for blind and visually impaired individuals in higher education."  It would be very helpful for the individual making the call to look at examples of exactly how that is typically done when trying to recruit participants for academic research and to pattern his future requests after same.

It is a very good idea for anyone in the user community for assistive technologies to give very serious consideration to any call for participants/subjects, particularly when that's simply for a questionnaire, that's part of academic research.  The lack of awareness of accessibility is still pretty wide (and pretty appalling) in the hallowed halls of academe, and anything that can be done to raise its profile, and to give either good hard data, or even decent anecdotal data, is highly unlikely to be of anything other than benefit to the cause at large, if not to the participant as an individual.

It will be my policy, going forward, that surveys of virtually any sort be placed in the Chat Subgroup, and I followed that even for this one.

I view the events of today as an unfortunate development by someone desperate to get more participants and who had been unaware of how offensive it is to hijack topics on an e-mailing list.   Hopefully this incident has resulted in more than one lesson learned, and won't be repeated.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Re: using win 7 after january 2020

 

Shaun,

           I will come out and say it in no uncertain terms:  Encouraging the use of an out-of-support OS as a daily driver is foolhardy, to put it mildly.

           People can and do choose to use unsupported OSes, but it is a horrible, horrible idea and gets worse the longer it's out of support.  The security ramifications alone make the position indefensible.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Re: using win 7 after january 2020

 

I thought microsoft would leave us alone.

After pulling their gwx stunt one would think that they would leave us users alone.

Now while a lot did take the plunge including a lot of friends and family that can't afford the upgrade, it did annoy quite a few others.

On 12/03/2019 7:16 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I think if you are a 7 user you will have seen it as on one update a while back the machines temp home page was changed to the warning about this without anybody asking. I guess they are entitled to do this, but it is slightly annoying when you boot in a browser and find that. Shades of the old practice then they ranmsn.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Kingett" <@blindjourno>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


It baffles me why nobody has shared the official blog post, but here it is, from Microsoft.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4057281/windows-7-support-will-end-on-january-14-2020






.

Re: o t, dvd wripper

 

Hmph, freemake has opencandy spyware on it.

I use dvd audio extracter, it can't process some of the really encripted videos but it can work.

I also use goldwave for cd wripping and file conversion.

cdbxp can do everything from blueray to cds and has a slim installer.



On 12/03/2019 3:11 AM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Hi,


I use a program called freemakeVC.  I bought the upgrade version because it works faster  and some of the features seem to be more accessible.  This program takes some playing with to get used to the parts that are not quite accessible but once you learn it it is easy to use. 


I use it for DVD ripping and burning.  I also use it to convert audio files to other formats.


Dan Beaver

On 3/11/2019 10:04 AM, Kerryn Gunness via Groups.Io wrote:

hi friends
 
do you all no of a program to wripp dvd's ?
 
 
-- 
Dan Beaver (KC4DOY)
.

locked Re: NVDA for Android and IOS

 

Well to be honest what we really need to remember is why we got jaws, before freedom scientiffic became the real bad boy it is now, and other readers.

Back in the dos days there was no accessibility at all.

Nothing much came from microsoft's end.

This continued through to windows 95.

In windows 98, microsoft started the active accessibility libraries which improved things but not that much.

In 2003 or there abouts with help from gwmicro the direct chain manager was done so you could handle readers in a multiple chained process, before that you made your own chains but they were unstable.

Basically the first screen reader was your video card, which was part of the next reader up till the end, the last screen reader was your video card.

Start one out of sync, run 2 at once, remove and or uninstall things in an unordered fashion and you broke the chain.

There were 2 ways to fix this.

1.  remove the chain, reinstall the video drivers and make another one.

Or just reformat.

Which I did a lot of.

You needed technical experience to make the reg files for  the chain and while I got dolphin support to construct one, it was as fragile as a glass window, and not that good.

The dcm became mirror drivers in vista and 7 and then in windows 8 microsoft started the universal access librarys we all love and loath.

The reason jaws and others existed was simply because microsoft didn't come to the party till late.

Even when xp to 7 came up, microsoft never really put much into narator.

It was just after the laws came in going against those that didn't make stuff accessible.

It probably also helped that after the death of outspoken and all the new laws, apple not only showed that it could make an accessible reader but showed off that it could make something better than waht was about at the time.

Voiceover has its limits of course but it is in all the programs and devices now.

Google, same with talkback but there were others at first in droid.

So eventually microsoft had to move.

The reason we are seeing the reader industry shrinking now is possibly because microsoft is pulling its weight and attempting to catch up to all the rest.

Now narator is nothing against nvda but its close.

Narator is not jaws.

But its big enough as a bold new kid on the block, not fully grown mind you that it is shifting mountains if only smaller ones.

Time will tell with businesses if this means the death of jaws or other readers, sadly dolphin seem to be in no hurry to improve at any speed so sadly they may die.

I have used their stuff for ages now but still.

Of course the fact we are using a more or less web based interface both inside  of our oses now and online on websites and web based programs does help.

There was a time where anything went and while there are a few bad acters about its not as bad a landscape as it was 5 years back.



There is one end of the road in the screen readers though.

And this isn't actually jaws, either we have reached the inovation curve and thats not likely because nvda is still inovating things.

Its almost like the comercial guys can't be bothered either that or ms is moving to fast with their current model.

Or maybe we can accept that most of them have just about done everything they set out to do and who knows.

As an os, while I really like win10's ease of use, search, and a few other apps, and shortcuts, the only reason I wouldn't go back to 7 is simply because 10 in some ways needs less shortcuts to get things done and less key presses.

On the flipside without my hacking tweaking tools win10 would be quite hellish.

On the systems I admin which are not mine there are issues, and I hate ribbons.

Most everything else I can get used to.

On 12/03/2019 3:04 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
What people need to remember here is that accessibility software, regardless of platform, has generally arisen due to a couple of factors, with different emphases:

  1. Recognition of lack of accessibility and need for it
  2. Desire to make money
  3. Desire to provide a real alternative to expensive option(s) many cannot afford
  4. Public relations value

It is no surprise that Windows, the world's most widely used computing platform, has more than its share of screen readers because all of the above have been at play with the various players in the field at one point or another.  I leave it to you, the reader, to decide which were bigger factors for each product.

Factor #1 is utterly lacking on iOS and Android.  Whether one likes VoiceOver or TalkBack, both are fully mature products that do their job admirably.  There can almost certainly be nothing as far as factors numbers one through three are concerned in these environments, and given the degree of maturity and broad acceptance of what is already available, factor number four has almost zero impact.   Who's going to hail "the next VoiceOver/TalkBack"?   Not many, that's for darned sure.

There are limited resources for implementing accessibility software, both monetary and otherwise.  It makes absolutely no sense to try to open a market that's not really a market in the first place.  Choices have to be made, and the probability of an entity that has the history of NVAccess doing a radical gear shift to other platforms makes very little sense from virtually any angle.

My dear departed Aunt Lila used to quote a rather salty old relative of hers when people brought up wishes such as this, that have all the odds stacked against them, and for good reason, "Wish in one hand, s*^t in the other, and see which gets full first."  That sums up my thoughts about the feasibility and likelihood of NVDA leaping across computing ecosystems.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Add on updates

Ian Westerland
 

Hi. I am using the NVDA latest Beta and, it is working well. When I am notified that there are Add on updates when first starting NVDA, the update shows an error message when I attempt the update from the notification. When I go to the update Add on from the NVDA menu, it works as usual----well and efficiently.

Has anyone else had the issue with the Add on update notification?

Ian Westerland

Re: using win 7 after january 2020

 

To be honest, if you have a coppy of windows 7 and use anything from an intel 530 to an intel 6th gen 6000 series, unless you really want win10 I wouldn't bother with win10.

Especially if you have older hardware, a single hard drive, etc.

Now if you have an ssd or maybe a duel drive system, maybe its worth wile.

And if you have a newer ac dule wireless system and do use a dule capible router you probably should do this as well.

I have just updated to fibre mind you, and after adjusting my channels and frequency ranges and filters for certain ranges, I have increased my download speed from 36mbps to 75mbps, its not all of the 105mbps I can use via lan but its quite fast.

True on the other side I lost 2mbps on the upload stream but we can't have everything.

The other reason you wouldd want win10 on a new device would be simply because the new multiband wireless cards can support the upper range a bit better, my old n only wireless device said it could support upper ranges but it became unstable at that range, we will see exactly what that means, however even if that becomes the case, my wireless extender does not change channels or at least you can't do that manually, but its retuned to sub channel5 offof the main unit so lets hope it remains empty of devices.

If you use an intel 7th gen and or up then you will need windows 10.

If you have an amd box from whatever they started with up to a12, you should be ok, but the new rysen series needs win10.

If you have an old out of date hd series video card then there are no newer drivers for you so you may want to either replace that or not upgrade.

You can and I have people that have  but have had so many system issues they had to abandon their aging hardware.

Another thing to note when upgrading is that while previous versions of windows from win95 to windowsxp and as far as vista and 7 didn't care about hardware bar what can run on them windows 10 is quite picky especially if your hardware gets more than 4-5 years old.

Technically it supports most stuff but there are always issues with a lot of lower hardware.

I wouldn't update to win10 unless you want to and just because you can.

In fact, if you have the room, I'd get a modern windows box for secured online stuff and if you can afford it win7 or even xp for off net stuff.

There is no need for win10 if all you will be doing is listening to media, general email and brousing and if you have a smart phone you can get rid of that.

If you start to shop or bank online then maybe you should for security reasons.

Now now I have my workstation I'm not going back to my crappy 3rd generation windows 7 laptop.

I have got used to a lot of windows10's shortcomings and really love it.

Of course winaero tweaker and ribbon disabler make the os more usable as an os without destractions.

Now if you do have the ability to go fibre and or mobile wireless then win10 is essential for best out of your new gear.

But I used vdsl on win7 for ages, and dsl before that back to xp when I used dialup.

If you don't have anything faster then dsl, or vdsl or still use dialup, windows10 won't give you anything at this stage.

And to be honest while I  don't have a system that uses it, I do have a coppy of windows xp and a coppy of windows 7 I own from various custom built workstations.

True windows7 won't have much use fully online but when or if I get an older box for whatever windows 10 is not going to be put on it.



On 12/03/2019 2:50 AM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Good points raised here!
I, myself, actually only have updated to Win 10 because I had to take a new laptop.
When I first started, I even thought of formating the toy and putting Win 7 onto it, but some features of Win 10 got me curious so I wound up staying with what I've already had.
However I wouldn't hurry anyone to update to Win 10 if they don't want to, at this point I don't think they really need it.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 11/03/2019 09:00, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

To be honest it may take a little longer for microsoft to completely kill windows7.

While a lot of even x lease units are now win10, there are still x lease win7 units about and even in some rare cases you still can buy a few older generations of win7 workstations of 4-6th generation.

Its likely that thats all going to be phased out but even if it is, I doubt windows7 or even 8 when it finnally dropps out of support will actually drop completely.

Firstly, while xp actually was really on the way out, all oses from vista up use almost the same stuff.

Dot net 4.6 and 4.7 are supported on all windows systems from 7 up, visual basic up to vb 2015-2017 are still supported, as well as dotnet.

Drivers for hardware if you know where to go are all supported on the older systems to, there is a lot of modern hardware that while it runs on 10 will still be supported on 7 and even 8 in fact a lot of win 8 and 8.1 software and drivers will run on windows 10 not really recommended but I have some sound card drivers from win7/8 which run fine without issues.

To be honest, its going to be harder for microsoft to drop win7 and or even 8, for starters, there is a lot of hardware about, some workstations still use 7, and while a lot of businesses are now going to 10, thats only happening as of now, when they replace computers, I know this because of family that are in business.

With xp, people I talked to said they only updated to win7 when windows 10 was starting out, in fact they only started win7 with the 2015 version of windows 10 when that was coming out, going to 7.

Some others may wait longer or shorter times.

Its going to even be harder with windows 8 when microsoft finally cans it.

The only reason to not use win7 possibly is if you want to use a more powerfull system than the intel 6th gen, and after their security nightmare, effecting all systems, from what I hear from people that know, all the security measures in both firmware and windows mitigations have basically crapified the entire 7-8th generation and the 8th generation completely with reduced speed.

Its why I moved to amd which while it does share some similarities with the intel breaches has more protections than intel because of older technologies being used.

Bar the interface in win8x, the only reason you probably would want to switch would be because you would like universal apps or something.

With the universal nature of hardware its going to be harder and a longer time before all that stuff dies.

Whats going to probably eventually happen, is that hardware will stop being supported and other things but there is more of that than win xp ever had.

The only other reason to even concidder upgrading to win10 is to use usb c tech.

Its faster but the ports and plugs mean that basically 99.99999% of usb devices don't work on usb c meaning you have to buy more hubs to fit things in.

Now I have seen usb c storage and a few things but its still got to mature.

My origional plan was to get a 6th gen or a quad 7th gen with all ports or basically usb 2 and 3 like I used to have with my 3rd gen.

This amd system has usb 2 and usb 3.1 class a which means I get all the generation upgrades but not c.

Another issue I have with the new systems is the god awefull microphone and speaker input jack.

This means that even with effects off, the sound for the speakers and externals is emulated to a point.

This means I need audio drivers running at startup in order to have it emulate the right device properly.

I have tried without drivers and the card amp in this beast is to powerfull to run right.

Older units and some newer ones have this sort of thing in and not the 2 stand alone outputs.

The other god awefull thing that I really hate about the modern systems is the tieing of all their sound hardware to the display chip.

I understand why they do it, but after the god awefull time I had in 1995 when sound was tied to the cd drive I thought everyone had learned their lesson.

My asus workstation's card is a card not tied to anything, a 4th gen.

Then again maybe it is the blind that overtax their cards to a point the limiters trip.

Back in the day when volume controls, stand alone cards analog ones mainly and real speakers existed we didn't have any of this stupidness.

Now it works but there is a lot of emulation.

And due to the size of the speakers unless you get an entertainment, gaming or small workstation like I have the speakers are really small that effects are needed for sound to sound even half good.

Eventually windows 7 like xp will become utter crap, but its going to get longer.

Xp was allready being phased out by newer things, win98, 95, and old dos went the same way as well as win2k, me and probably win 8 and vista.

Sadly, win7 has a lot going for it.

There is still a lot of good tech that will be win7 able for ages yet.

And as I said, we would need a big change to really role users over to 10 at least any time fast.

From technical trends that myself and a friend are following who is in the security industry, the biggest threat is forging business emails, as businesses and indeviduals get smarter, the threat of ransomware is dropping to a point we can handle it reasonably well.

Won't be gone completely but still.

Unlike xp, there is no real advantage to really upgrade over win7 on its own.

With the loss of office 2010-2016 coming up in the next few years, that may be enough, and the processer limitations but there are hacks round that.

As long as  there are still people and businesses using it win7 will continue.

Another thing for 7 and against 10 is the fact microsoft has pulled out a lot of legacy stuff which is still used.

Things like midi mappers, and some stuff to run older games and programs which 7 even 64 bit can run with ease.

This is probably why microsoft went with win10 as a service, I mean why would you ever leave windows 10.

Unless your processer is really old, you wouldn't.

The intel 6gen has stopped production as of last year, 7th is still about but dropping out now.

Things may pick up with intel 9th gen maybe.

Microsoft have addressed some of the performance bottlenecks in the mitigations for intel cpus but still.

It will be harder to get rid of win7 and 8 than microsoft actually thinks.

Win8's interface may drive people to 10, and 8 will drop but 7 is unlikely to become as xp is.

Even so, people only dropped xp when their support libraries no longer worked with it.

To be honest, the only reason some stuff like older windows could be effected is if and when microsoft dropps 32 bit support.

Or at least 32 bit os versions.

A lot of programs use 32 and 64 bit code, nvda being one of them.

What will probably shove things along is the end of 32 as a hardware architecture.

32 bit machines havn't been made in ages and ages.

The reason 32 bit continues is that a few systems are still running with 1-4gb ram mainly and the fact a few older programs still exist.

Even if ms were to drop win7 support now, I doubt we'd see any real change for at least a decade or even more.

With all the cloud services and portables what we may see is a cludge of oses and devices being used at once.




On 11/03/2019 10:18 PM, Ian Blackburn wrote:
You can continue to use Windows 7 after the end date in the same way that people are still using Windows XP
But you take the risk of some sort of attack due to the fact that holes in the operating system are not being patched by the supplier
That’s a risk that you choose to take or not depending on your situation


On 11 Mar 2019, at 4:47 pm, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

 


Re: using win 7 after january 2020

Gene
 

Not only has the person hijacked three different messages without even changing the subject line, he has given no information about how the survey will be used.  Is it for a course?  Will it be submitted to a government agency or a university department that deals with accessibility? 
 
Everyone and his brother wants blind people to take surveys.  What justifies taking this one? 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

Brian the person has hi jacked this thread with that survey post. Might I
suggest that although I do understand where he is coming from, that he puts
his post on a blog somewhere with a link in his footer instead? In my
experience it will get clicked on by many more than doing it this way. OK
I'll go away.
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 08:09 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

>
> As Joseph seems to have to keep on updating the essentials add on the
> changes have to be significant.

Joseph can (and will) certainly jump in on this himself, but what I've
observed suggests that these updates were far less about Windows 10, per se,
than staging for future NVDA development. The last update was at the end of
last September and is noted for NVDA 2018.3 to 2019.1.

Add-On Updater seems to be in constant spin as other add-ons "jump on the
bandwagon" that allow it to work with it, and that's separate from Windows
10, per se, too.

I'm sure I'll be corrected, and accept it, if I'm wrong.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back