Date   

moderated Re: RAM Problem with Dell computers that have Realtek HD Audio Driver, and NVDA or JAWS

 

I just tried to do this using microsoft disability on be my eyes. She
could not locate any drivers other than real tech on my computer and
they will not install drivers not rec by manufacturer. She went to the
dell site and there was an Oct 27 update for real tech. So I installed
those... I hope that it does it but I have no confidence with real
tech to be honest.

I have more school work to do so I guess will update later.
On 11/30/20, luke scholey via groups.io
<l.scholey=lukescholey.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Hi all

Just to add to this:

There seems to be an issue with some (but not all) new Dell laptops that use
a version of the Realtech audio driver and NVDA.

As stated below, there’s a memory leak with the Windows Audio Device Graph
Isolation (audiodg.exe) service. When using NVDA, especially for long
periods of time, this service eats all available ram and then starts
gobbling up virtual memory as well until the device blue screens. This is
limited to when NVDA speaks, my testing has revealed that if you leave NVDA
silent for a while, the memory slowly comes back down again. This leak also
doesn’t happen when other audio is playing so it seems to be a problem with
the way NVDA uses this service. But if you’re using one of these effected
laptops in a 9 til 5 job, over a few hours, the machine would become slower
and slower.

A temporary fix for this is to find the audio driver in use in the device
manager from hardware and sound, navigate to the sounds video and game
controllers category and update the audio driver. Instead of searching for
updates on the internet automatically, choose the manual option and select
the button that will allow the user to choose a driver from a compatible
list of drivers in the same category. Usually there will only be two drivers
in this list, the current Realtech driver and the default Windows 10 driver
which is called HD Audio from Microsoft. Click this driver to update and the
audio on the machine will stop. Restart the laptop to begin using the new
updated driver. Using this HD Audio driver, the issue is no longer present.

I’m not saying NVDA is at fault here because I don’t know enough about this
yet. It could be that the driver is the culprit, and NVDA is doing things
correctly but the driver is not handling NVDA very well.

So far I’ve tested this on Dell Inspiron laptops from the 570 range and
above, from Windows 10 1809 and above and NVDA 2019.1 and above.

Hope this helps.

Luke


From: William Wong
Sent: 30 November 2020 11:19
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Ram problem and nvda

H







moderated Re: RAM Problem with Dell computers that have Realtek HD Audio Driver, and NVDA or JAWS

 
Edited

Well a solution for me is to never buy a dell.

Its been known there are a lot of audio driver issues with dell units for us blind persons.

There is another reason now not to even buy dell because its just bad news for us.

As for getting it fixed.

If dell wanna fix their stuff and you need to send the laptop in, maybe they can fix it.

Maybe its an update.

 

Its obvious that they are aware of it though.


Re: Looking for an NVDA tutorial

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.

I’d also suggest the basic training module for NVDA from NV Access.

I am studying the module right now to prepare to take the NVDA certification exam and it is excellent.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Skye
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 3:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Looking for an NVDA tutorial

 

Any suggestions for a really good beginner NVDA tutorial for someone new to the overall concept?  Thanks!


Re: Looking for an NVDA tutorial

Ann Byrne
 

NVDA has its own excellent tutorial for $30 Australian, which is around $23 US. It is very good.

At 02:33 PM 11/30/2020, you wrote:
Any suggestions for a really good beginner NVDA tutorial for someone new to the overall concept? Thanks!


Re: Looking for an NVDA tutorial

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


The following page should help it also links to other nvda tutorials but they are only for a desk top user.


It also has a link to the nvaccess shop where you can buy training material for nvda, word, excel,outlook I think and I think there is one coming for power point unless it is there already.


The link to this page is http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials.html

Gene nz


On 1/12/2020 9:33 am, Skye wrote:
Any suggestions for a really good beginner NVDA tutorial for someone new to the overall concept?  Thanks!


Re: Looking for an NVDA tutorial

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Joseph Lee has a very good tutorial on NVDA. I don’t remember the link for it right now but you can do a search for it on google or whatever search engine you use.

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Skye
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 12:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Looking for an NVDA tutorial

 

Any suggestions for a really good beginner NVDA tutorial for someone new to the overall concept?  Thanks!

 


Re: Looking for an NVDA tutorial

Chris Smart
 

The basic training sold at nvaccess.org is excellent.



On 2020-11-30 3:33 p.m., Skye wrote:
Any suggestions for a really good beginner NVDA tutorial for someone new to the overall concept?  Thanks!


Looking for an NVDA tutorial

Skye
 

Any suggestions for a really good beginner NVDA tutorial for someone new to the overall concept?  Thanks!


Re: Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

 

Hi,
It might be possible to run NVDA on a Windows 10 on ARM running on M1
processor. Note that Microsoft didn't truly release Windows 10 on ARM for
MacBook Air yet.
As for the library I mentioned, it is a module that allows NVDA to work
better with certain apps, especially when using web browsers.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello Joseph,

thanks for the reply. Though I didn't get it entirely. You mean NVDA comes
with a library same as what? Could you elaborate on that more?

Let's say I have a fast ARM processor, like that which is included in the
new MacBook Air with the M1 chip. Do you think NVDA will be stable on such
an ARM-based environment?

Kind regards
Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 18:34, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
What I'm about to say is theoretical, but might be applicable in practice:
I expect NVDA to be slow in Windows 10 on ARM. As you may know, in
order to run x86 (32-bit) code, Windows 10 on ARM comes with an
emulator. But because NVDA is a Python-based software, it must go
through multiple layers (Python interpreter on x86, which in turn will
run on top of x86 emulator) just to get it to run. Thankfully, NVDA
does come with the same library for communicating with certain apps,
so it might be a bit fast (still slower than running on a 64-bit AMD
or Intel processor); for reference, the ARM version of NVDA Helper library
is also compiled when compiling NVDA.
As for working with ARM apps, foundations are in place to fully
support them. The initial work was made in 2017, which was somewhat
enhanced in subsequent releases. In NVDA 2020.3, NVDA can tell you
what the target machine architecture for an app is, so using Python
Console, you can figure out if you're dealing with a 32-bit or 64-bit
x86 or ARM app. This will get a bit interesting (and slightly
complicated) soon when Windows 10 on ARM comes with an emulator for 64-bit
x86 code.
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam
Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 7:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and I
am just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well in
the Windows
10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the
development of an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam









Re: Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Adam Samec <adam.samec@...>
 

Hello Joseph,

thanks for the reply. Though I didn't get it entirely. You mean NVDA comes with a library same as what? Could you elaborate on that more?

Let's say I have a fast ARM processor, like that which is included in the new MacBook Air with the M1 chip. Do you think NVDA will be stable on such an ARM-based environment?

Kind regards
Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 18:34, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
What I'm about to say is theoretical, but might be applicable in practice:
I expect NVDA to be slow in Windows 10 on ARM. As you may know, in order to
run x86 (32-bit) code, Windows 10 on ARM comes with an emulator. But because
NVDA is a Python-based software, it must go through multiple layers (Python
interpreter on x86, which in turn will run on top of x86 emulator) just to
get it to run. Thankfully, NVDA does come with the same library for
communicating with certain apps, so it might be a bit fast (still slower
than running on a 64-bit AMD or Intel processor); for reference, the ARM
version of NVDA Helper library is also compiled when compiling NVDA.
As for working with ARM apps, foundations are in place to fully support
them. The initial work was made in 2017, which was somewhat enhanced in
subsequent releases. In NVDA 2020.3, NVDA can tell you what the target
machine architecture for an app is, so using Python Console, you can figure
out if you're dealing with a 32-bit or 64-bit x86 or ARM app. This will get
a bit interesting (and slightly complicated) soon when Windows 10 on ARM
comes with an emulator for 64-bit x86 code.
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 7:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and I am
just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well in the Windows
10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the development of
an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam









Re: Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

 

Hi,
What I'm about to say is theoretical, but might be applicable in practice:
I expect NVDA to be slow in Windows 10 on ARM. As you may know, in order to
run x86 (32-bit) code, Windows 10 on ARM comes with an emulator. But because
NVDA is a Python-based software, it must go through multiple layers (Python
interpreter on x86, which in turn will run on top of x86 emulator) just to
get it to run. Thankfully, NVDA does come with the same library for
communicating with certain apps, so it might be a bit fast (still slower
than running on a 64-bit AMD or Intel processor); for reference, the ARM
version of NVDA Helper library is also compiled when compiling NVDA.
As for working with ARM apps, foundations are in place to fully support
them. The initial work was made in 2017, which was somewhat enhanced in
subsequent releases. In NVDA 2020.3, NVDA can tell you what the target
machine architecture for an app is, so using Python Console, you can figure
out if you're dealing with a 32-bit or 64-bit x86 or ARM app. This will get
a bit interesting (and slightly complicated) soon when Windows 10 on ARM
comes with an emulator for 64-bit x86 code.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 7:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and I am
just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well in the Windows
10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the development of
an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam


moderated Re: RAM Problem with Dell computers that have Realtek HD Audio Driver, and NVDA or JAWS

Jackie
 

The other thing I might suggest is to ensure all sound enhancements
are turned off, which tends not to be the case w/Realtek.

That Dell would hang up on someone is just inexcusable. Believe me,
I've taken much abuse from folks over the years & never once hung up.
& I doubt she was even remotely actin like that.

On 11/30/20, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 11:59 AM, Melissa Jean wrote:


dell hung up on me twice.
-
That's something I would report, too, unless you were behaving in an
outrageously abusive way toward the support tech, which I highly doubt you
were.

This is clearly something that Dell needs to be in the center of resolving,
and they need to pick up the ball.

After having read Mr. Wong's saga elsewhere before this topic started,
coupled with what's been shared here, I would be raising holy hell with Dell
about this and not taking no for an answer. It's clearly not a coincidence,
and it's clearly something they need to be actively trying to resolve. End
users can't fix this, nor should they be expected to.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

*If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to
something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you
have a legal mind.*

~ Thomas Reed Powell





--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
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& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


moderated Re: RAM Problem with Dell computers that have Realtek HD Audio Driver, and NVDA or JAWS

 

On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 11:59 AM, Melissa Jean wrote:
dell hung up on me twice.
-
That's something I would report, too, unless you were behaving in an outrageously abusive way toward the support tech, which I highly doubt you were.

This is clearly something that Dell needs to be in the center of resolving, and they need to pick up the ball.

After having read Mr. Wong's saga elsewhere before this topic started, coupled with what's been shared here, I would be raising holy hell with Dell about this and not taking no for an answer.  It's clearly not a coincidence, and it's clearly something they need to be actively trying to resolve.  End users can't fix this, nor should they be expected to.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


moderated Re: RAM Problem with Dell computers that have Realtek HD Audio Driver, and NVDA or JAWS

 

Thank you for this, this was driving me crazy. It would do this to me if I were using jaws or NVDA. I have been contacting Microsoft support and even della couple of times and they couldn’t help me… dell hung up on me twice. to me, it sounded like a memory issue but I couldn’t figure out what was taking up that memory. Nothing says fun like working on a paper for school, hitting save, hearing it saved, and then finding out that it didn’t save your work for the past half hour.
I have a dell latitude that I got back in September of this year.

Melissa

On Nov 30, 2020, at 6:17 AM, luke scholey via groups.io <l.scholey@...> wrote:



Hi all

 

Just to add to this:

 

There seems to be an issue with some (but not all) new Dell laptops that use a version of the Realtech audio driver and NVDA.

 

As stated below, there’s a memory leak with the Windows Audio Device Graph Isolation (audiodg.exe) service. When using NVDA, especially for long periods of time, this service eats all available ram and then starts gobbling up virtual memory as well until the device blue screens. This is limited to when NVDA speaks, my testing has revealed that if you leave NVDA silent for a while, the memory slowly comes back down again. This leak also doesn’t happen when other audio is playing so it seems to be a problem with the way NVDA uses this service. But if you’re using one of these effected laptops in a 9 til 5  job, over a few hours, the machine would become slower and slower.

 

A temporary fix for this is to find the audio driver in use in the device manager from hardware and sound, navigate to the sounds video and game controllers category and update the audio driver. Instead of searching for updates on the internet automatically, choose the manual option and select the button that will allow the user to choose a driver from a compatible list of drivers in the same category. Usually there will only be two drivers in this list, the current Realtech driver and the default Windows 10 driver which is called HD Audio from Microsoft. Click this driver to update and the audio on the machine will stop. Restart the laptop to begin using the new updated driver. Using this HD Audio driver, the issue is no longer present.

 

I’m not saying NVDA is at fault here because I don’t know enough about this yet. It could be that the driver is the culprit, and NVDA is doing things correctly but the driver is not handling NVDA very well.

 

So far I’ve tested this on Dell Inspiron laptops from the 570 range and above, from Windows 10 1809 and above and NVDA 2019.1 and above.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Luke

 

 

From: William Wong
Sent: 30 November 2020 11:19
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Ram problem and nvda

 

H

 


moderated Re: RAM Problem with Dell computers that have Realtek HD Audio Driver, and NVDA or JAWS

 

On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 11:17 AM, luke scholey wrote:
I think if it were possible to fix, we have better luck with NVAccess taking it seriously than dell.
-
That's just not the way it does, or should, work.

If the problem is with a driver, then whoever is responsible for that driver does the fix.  It is conceivably possible it could be Realtek, but I'm doubting it since the problem has so far been confined only to Dell machines.

If third party software developers like NVAccess and others were ever to get into the business of creating workarounds for driver issues or memory leak issues of any kind not of their making their ability to focus on their core missions would evaporate very, very quickly.

There are spheres of responsibility in the software world that are pretty clearly demarcated and have been since the days I was actually doing it, which ended in the late 1990s.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Adam Samec <adam.samec@...>
 

Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and I am just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well in the Windows 10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the development of an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam


moderated Re: RAM Problem with Dell computers that have Realtek HD Audio Driver, and NVDA or JAWS

luke scholey
 

I agree, good point raised. But I don’t want to automatically exclude NVDA or a 3rd party component that it uses unless I can prove it is dell. What if a tweak could be made within NVDA that detects this driver and fixes the leak. After all, anyone could find The source of the leak and fix it themselves if they know how, and have the appropriate access.

I think if it were possible to fix, we have better luck with NVAccess taking it seriously than dell.

Thanks also for updating the title.

All the best
Luke



On 30 Nov 2020, at 15:39, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Luke,

         In this situation, you've pretty much effectively eliminated NVDA from the equation.  If NVDA were the source of the problem it should occur regardless of the device drivers in place.  Memory leaks, much like fluid leaks, have sources, and if you patch a given source and the leaking stops entirely, you know the culprit.

         Also note that Melissa states that she has the issue with either JAWS or NVDA, which points even more toward something external to either one of those programs as being the root cause.

         I hope someone reports these findings to Dell.  Many manufacturers, and Dell is one of them, customize device drivers provided by the actual hardware manufacturers to their own liking.  I've got Realtek audio drivers on several machines and have never encountered this issue either with JAWS or NVDA.  The finger is pointing directly at Dell and some tweak(s) they've made to the audio drivers they supply with their machines.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


moderated Re: RAM Problem with Dell computers that have Realtek HD Audio Driver, and NVDA or JAWS

 

By the way, I have updated the title of this topic for archival purposes.  This situation is very limited in scope and requires a specific combination of computer brand, Dell, and audio drivers (probably customized), Realtek, in order for the issue to occur.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


moderated Re: RAM Problem with Dell computers that have Realtek HD Audio Driver, and NVDA or JAWS

 

Luke,

         In this situation, you've pretty much effectively eliminated NVDA from the equation.  If NVDA were the source of the problem it should occur regardless of the device drivers in place.  Memory leaks, much like fluid leaks, have sources, and if you patch a given source and the leaking stops entirely, you know the culprit.

         Also note that Melissa states that she has the issue with either JAWS or NVDA, which points even more toward something external to either one of those programs as being the root cause.

         I hope someone reports these findings to Dell.  Many manufacturers, and Dell is one of them, customize device drivers provided by the actual hardware manufacturers to their own liking.  I've got Realtek audio drivers on several machines and have never encountered this issue either with JAWS or NVDA.  The finger is pointing directly at Dell and some tweak(s) they've made to the audio drivers they supply with their machines.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


moderated Re: RAM Problem with Dell computers that have Realtek HD Audio Driver, and NVDA or JAWS

luke scholey
 

Hi Melissa

I know how annoying this can be. See my message below for instructions on how to sort it.

Let me know if you need anymore detailed steps.

All the best
Luke



On 30 Nov 2020, at 12:17, luke scholey via groups.io <l.scholey@...> wrote:



Hi all

 

Just to add to this:

 

There seems to be an issue with some (but not all) new Dell laptops that use a version of the Realtech audio driver and NVDA.

 

As stated below, there’s a memory leak with the Windows Audio Device Graph Isolation (audiodg.exe) service. When using NVDA, especially for long periods of time, this service eats all available ram and then starts gobbling up virtual memory as well until the device blue screens. This is limited to when NVDA speaks, my testing has revealed that if you leave NVDA silent for a while, the memory slowly comes back down again. This leak also doesn’t happen when other audio is playing so it seems to be a problem with the way NVDA uses this service. But if you’re using one of these effected laptops in a 9 til 5  job, over a few hours, the machine would become slower and slower.

 

A temporary fix for this is to find the audio driver in use in the device manager from hardware and sound, navigate to the sounds video and game controllers category and update the audio driver. Instead of searching for updates on the internet automatically, choose the manual option and select the button that will allow the user to choose a driver from a compatible list of drivers in the same category. Usually there will only be two drivers in this list, the current Realtech driver and the default Windows 10 driver which is called HD Audio from Microsoft. Click this driver to update and the audio on the machine will stop. Restart the laptop to begin using the new updated driver. Using this HD Audio driver, the issue is no longer present.

 

I’m not saying NVDA is at fault here because I don’t know enough about this yet. It could be that the driver is the culprit, and NVDA is doing things correctly but the driver is not handling NVDA very well.

 

So far I’ve tested this on Dell Inspiron laptops from the 570 range and above, from Windows 10 1809 and above and NVDA 2019.1 and above.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Luke

 

 

From: William Wong
Sent: 30 November 2020 11:19
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Ram problem and nvda

 

H

 

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