Date   

Re: NVDA, beyond screen reading

Jacob Kruger
 

Jaffar, while I have been using audacity along with NVDA for a few years now already, here's the reaper accessibility wiki page:

https://reaperaccessibility.com/index.php/Main_Page


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"...resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2019-07-26 7:56 AM, Jaffar Sidek wrote:

Thanks Marceo for pointing out the error.

the Osara Download link is:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fi0nmrre3xicfkn/osara_2019.1pre-123%2Cb22e8acd.exe?dl=1

Sorry all for the error.

On 7/26/2019 1:30 PM, Marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Jaffar,
Just letting you know that you've put the Dropbox link to the Reaper Installer twice on different lines.
Here's the quote:
or download it here and install it as a fully functional trial,

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpw1xyen2ynbeay/reaper5981_x64-install.exe?dl=1

Then download and install Osara, an NVDA extension which enhances NVDA's capability to almost fully access the Reaper application.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpw1xyen2ynbeay/reaper5981_x64-install.exe?dl=1

Congratulations for such an instructional message!

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!


Re: NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

I think its v13. But I am guessing.

 

                                                                                                                                If all I have left in this world is God, I have everything!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Curtis Delzer
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 3:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

 

which version of k1000 do you have?

 
Curtis Delzer 
HS
K 6 V F O
Rialto, CA
 
curtis@...

On 7/17/2019 8:09 PM, Robert Doc Wright godfearer wrote:

I wish I could help. Since January I have not been able to install my copy of Kurzweild. They say I have to upgrade. As if I have an extra $200 just laying around.

 

                                                                                                                                If all I have left in this world is God, I have everything!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Luke Davis
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 1:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

 

I know nothing about K1000, but just as a wild suggestion, have you tried

switching between focus and browse modes? NVDA+space

 

On Tue, 16 Jul 2019, Sile via Groups.Io wrote:

 

> I have just discovered that, under windows 10, I cannot navigate files

> scanned by Kurzweil 1000 using the standard cursor keys. The cursor just sits

> at the first letter on the first line of the file.

> This used to work under Windows 7 with NVDA - is anyone else having this

> issue?

 

 

 

 


setting up windows 10 speech recognition

anthony borg
 

Hi list
Does anyone can explain to me how to setting up the windows 10speech
recognition please?
Because I tried many times and I'm finding it hard to do it.
Thanks in advance
Anthony


Re: NVDA, beyond screen reading

Jaffar Sidek
 

Thanks Marceo for pointing out the error.

the Osara Download link is:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fi0nmrre3xicfkn/osara_2019.1pre-123%2Cb22e8acd.exe?dl=1

Sorry all for the error.

On 7/26/2019 1:30 PM, Marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Jaffar,
Just letting you know that you've put the Dropbox link to the Reaper Installer twice on different lines.
Here's the quote:
or download it here and install it as a fully functional trial,

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpw1xyen2ynbeay/reaper5981_x64-install.exe?dl=1

Then download and install Osara, an NVDA extension which enhances NVDA's capability to almost fully access the Reaper application.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpw1xyen2ynbeay/reaper5981_x64-install.exe?dl=1

Congratulations for such an instructional message!

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!


Re: NVDA, beyond screen reading

 

Jaffar,
Just letting you know that you've put the Dropbox link to the Reaper Installer twice on different lines.
Here's the quote:
or download it here and install it as a fully functional trial,

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpw1xyen2ynbeay/reaper5981_x64-install.exe?dl=1

Then download and install Osara, an NVDA extension which enhances NVDA's capability to almost fully access the Reaper application.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpw1xyen2ynbeay/reaper5981_x64-install.exe?dl=1

Congratulations for such an instructional message!

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!


NVDA, beyond screen reading

Jaffar Sidek
 

Hi all.  All of us use NVDA extensively for those basic computer tasks like emailing, word processing, surfing the web and so on. But there are some of you I'm sure who would like to do more with your pcs, in company with NVDA.  I'm sure that there are some among you, for example who would like to branch out, into something else you are really good at and make a decent living out of it.  like making music? music production? or programming? and why not?  NVDA has come a long way since it started way back years ago.  No more is it a screen reader that plays second fiddle to the more established JFW.  Window eyes has come and gone, unjustly consigned to the whims of Father Time.  But with the undaunting efforts of the main developers and the community, NVDA is now a formidable tool that can be employed for more serious pursuits like Music production and Computer Programming.  I want to concentrate however on music making because there are a lot of talented blind folks who would like to make music, perhaps as a hobby or as a form of livelihood but do not know how to go about it, and In particular, i want to sportlight Reaper, a most versatile Digital Audio Workstation (DAW), which also allows for MIDI recording..


You can get Reaper from its website,

http://reaper.fm/download.php

or download it here and install it as a fully functional trial,

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpw1xyen2ynbeay/reaper5981_x64-install.exe?dl=1

Then download and install Osara, an NVDA extension which enhances NVDA's capability to almost fully access the Reaper application.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpw1xyen2ynbeay/reaper5981_x64-install.exe?dl=1

You have now got a computer which also acts as a music work station, allowing you to record and edit midi, as well as record and edit audio.  How cool is that?

As a demo to put forward my point, here's a piece of music I wrote for a school's music educational program and was paid for it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0xcy5lhusgftiff/Kangaroo%20Playtime.mp3?dl=0

The music is not put here to show of my limited skill but rather to show you what you can do if you venture to use NVDA as broadly as you can and not limit it's limitless capabilities.

Now having turned your pc into a music work Station, Consult the Reaper wiki, at https://reaperaccessibility.com/index.php/Main_Page and go make music.  You can also join the reaper mailing list for help and questions.  The address is listed on the wiki.


This is part  of a paper on Computer accessibility I was invited to present by our local I T government department to a group of blind and sighted university students a week ago.  I only included the music part of the presentation here as many blind people want to make something out of their music talent but don't know how. Hope the moderators won't mind.  Cheers!


GoldWave add-on 19.04.1 #addonrelease

 

Hi all,

 

GoldWave add-on 19.04.1 is on its way.

 

IMPORTANT: a few weeks ago I announced on various channels that GoldWave 19.04 (in this case, 19.04.1) will be the last version to support anyone running Windows XP or Vista, GoldWave 5.x, and NVDA releases earlier than 2018.4. The time has come to say goodbye to this combination. Because of this, version 19.04.1 installer file will not be removed from the following link:

https://github.com/josephsl/goldWave/releases/download/19.04/goldwave-19.04.1.nvda-addon

 

You may have also noticed that the version shown is 19.04.1 despite the fact that it is July. I’ll explain why that is the case in a follow-up email.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: NVDA 2019.2 Beta 3, arrow keys do not work in Skype 8.49 under Windows 10 Ver. 1809.

David Csercsics
 

I’m surprised that your computer still runs if it’s old enough to have shipped with XP. I’d guess you couldn’t update most things, and that if you got new hardware it’s likely to run badly, if at all.


Re: NVDA 2019.2 Beta 3, arrow keys do not work in Skype 8.49 under Windows 10 Ver. 1809.

Curtis Delzer
 

I believe I actually got XP back in 2000.

Curtis Delzer
HS
K 6 V F O
Rialto, CA

curtis@calweb.com

On 7/18/2019 12:33 AM, zahra wrote:
xp is not for previous century!
xp first started in 2001!

On 7/18/19, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi!
The solution, as has been pointed out repeatedly, is to drop XP and
arrive in the 21st century. It's a great century to live in. I'm sure
you'll enjoy it.
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 18. Juli 2019 um 04:54 Uhr schrieb zahra
<nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>:
i really need to use skype.
i cant use android phone.
and skype for web does not support older versions of google chrome and
not support firefox at all.
whats the solution for me?

On 7/18/19, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com> wrote:
There: You can try it if you want. Not sure if it will work with xp.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: zahra
Sent: July 17, 2019 6:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2019.2 Beta 3, arrow keys do not work in Skype
8.49under Windows 10 Ver. 1809.

hi joseph.
do you mean if i can install skype 8.49 one day and use nvda 2017.2
which is my favorite version, it works correctly without any issue?
thanks for your help, God bless you!

On 7/18/19, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I think this has to do with the fact that Skype 8 is set by NVDA to
not
use
browse mode by default. Try pressing NVDA+Space and see if browse mode
is
engaged.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John
Isige
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 12:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2019.2 Beta 3, arrow keys do not work in Skype
8.49
under Windows 10 Ver. 1809.

Hey all. I think the subject about covers it. If I open Skype, this is
the
desktop version or whatever they're calling it, under NVDA 2019.2 Beta
3,
and try to arrow around, nothing happens. It works fine under NVDA
2019.1.1.
What should happen is that it moves and reads a line, e.g. "menu
button
submenu more options", "search for people groups and messages", "use
dial
pad", and so on, that's arrowing down from the top.
Tabbing between things works, but not the arrows, at least for me. I
figured
I'd mention it in case anybody knows of a fix, or at least to find out
if
it's a known issue, and if not, to make people aware of it.







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali




Re: NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

Curtis Delzer
 

which version of k1000 do you have?

Curtis Delzer 
HS
K 6 V F O
Rialto, CA

curtis@...
On 7/17/2019 8:09 PM, Robert Doc Wright godfearer wrote:

I wish I could help. Since January I have not been able to install my copy of Kurzweild. They say I have to upgrade. As if I have an extra $200 just laying around.

 

                                                                                                                                If all I have left in this world is God, I have everything!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Luke Davis
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 1:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Kurzweil 1000

 

I know nothing about K1000, but just as a wild suggestion, have you tried

switching between focus and browse modes? NVDA+space

 

On Tue, 16 Jul 2019, Sile via Groups.Io wrote:

 

> I have just discovered that, under windows 10, I cannot navigate files

> scanned by Kurzweil 1000 using the standard cursor keys. The cursor just sits

> at the first letter on the first line of the file.

> This used to work under Windows 7 with NVDA - is anyone else having this

> issue?

 

 

 


Re: NVDA not reading typed content in Windows 10 powershell terminal

Luke Davis
 

Things that help:

Turning on "Use UI Automation to access the windows console" under NVDA advanced settings, definitely improves the situation.
Waiting a few seconds after you first launch the shell.
Oddly enough, sometimes even clearing the screen (cls) will help.

Luke


Re: NVDA not reading typed content in Windows 10 powershell terminal

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

Are you meaning that NVDA is only announcing the first typed character? It will read if you press insert+up arrow. It just stops speaking after the first letter you type.

 

                                                                                                                                If all I have left in this world is God, I have everything!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Andy B.
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 10:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA not reading typed content in Windows 10 powershell terminal

 

Hi,

 

When I go into the Windows 10 powershell terminal, NVDA doesn’t read the typed content at the prompt. Is there any way to fix this problem?

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


Re: In-Process 5th July

Gene
 

There is a difference between giving too much information and giving inaccurate information in the name of simplicity.  There are times, and I saw one person report one after you sent your message where space and enter work differently.  Saying that usually enter and space bar do the same thing is, evidently, accurate.  Implying or saying that they always do isn't.  It isn't too much information to say that enter and space bar usually do the same thing but not always and telling people to try both if one doesn't work. 
 
The statement concerning the dialog as no longer being needed, or however it is stated is factually incorrect.  There are times, rare times, but times, where the dialog works where the system tray directly doesn't, and where the system tray works where the dialog doesn't. 
 
They may be rare, but they exist.  It is better not to say anything about the system tray dialog no longer being needed.  That would avoid a factually incorrect statement.  it would be far better to say that rarely, one works where the other doesn't when using keyboard commands but that it is generally a matter of preference which is used and that the dialog can be added to NVDA as an add-on. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process 5th July

Gene,

Thanks for your input.  I can't remember the exact wording Luke proposed, but it certainly got me thinking about your previous remarks on this issue.  We also asked Microsoft Accessibility, and their response (as per https://twitter.com/MSFTEnable/status/1148296440931868673 ) was: "In the notification area these ...(enter and spacebar)... can be used interchangeably. You can also use the application key or shift+f10 to open the context menu with additional options."

I think there's also a fine line between providing every possible option to cover every possible scenario, and giving the average user too much information at once.

Re your specific example of the network icon, my Windows 7 machine isn't playing nice at the moment, so I'll have to wait to test and see if I can find any other examples myself (I certainly believe you), I can confirm in Windows 10 that the network icon behaves the same when you press ENTER as it does when you press SPACEBAR.

If anyone does have any examples of notification area icons which behave differently between pressing space and enter.  Also, any examples of icons which won't work with the keyboard are useful to be aware of as well.

Kind regards

Quentin.


On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 7:46 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
These are probably my final comments about the system tray unless new information comes up. 
 
The article doesn't state that first letter navigation can be used in navigating the system tray.  Also, the article says that the system tray window available for early versions of Windows is no longer needed.  It is a dialog that the screen-reader displays.  Aside from that clarification, I and two others in the discussion that occurred not too long ago, said that there are on occasion, icons that can't be activated by using the system tray with keyboard commands directly.  NVDA developers should stop discounting the system tray dialog.  There are cases where it gives better access.  Such comments should not be made.  Even if there are a very few such icons, it may be more convenient for some users to use the system tray dialog, available as an add-on. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process 5th July

I should correct my last message.  You say in older versions of Windows there is a distinction between double left click and single left click.  That is true.  You may be right about Windows 10 only having two ways of working with the system tray icons.  If so, then I was wrong in my last message where I said you gave incorrect information.  But this needs to be carefully checked, as your request for examples that disprove your Windows 10 statement implies. 
 
I can give you one specific instance that differs in Windows 7 and that you can test in Windows 10.  The following icon in Windows 7 distinguishes between space and enter.  The network icon, or connection icon, I'm not sure what the technical name is, only works properly if left single click, space bar, is used. 
I'm not sure exactly what happens when you use enter but it doesn't work properly.  As I recall a network flyout message is received. 
 
If this is tested in Windows 10 and the reaction is identical between enter and space and if no one else reports any differences, I withdraw my suspicions that the Windows description is incorrect.  But even if only one or two icons still distinguish between these commands, it should be stated without the qualification about earlier versions of Windows.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2019 11:56 PM
Subject: [nvda] In-Process 5th July

Hi everyone,

NVDA 2019.2 Beta 2, Mick taking a well-deserved break, updates to NVDACon and our Corporate page and details on accessing the Windows notification area, all in this week's In-Process!


Happy 4th of July to those in America, and happy weekend to everyone :)

 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!


begin and end links with braille display

Josh Kennedy
 

Hi,

When I am reading websites in braille with my orbit reader20 and NVDA, and I encounter a link, NVDA puts lnk before the link, but there is nothing to indicate when, and where, the link has ended and normal text resumes. Furthermore, when the link ends, there is no space between words. I would like to see a choice of how links are displaysed in braille. Either begin and end web-links indicators, this includes visited and other types of links, or have a choice to underline the whole link using dots-7-and-8. But there should be an alternative for six-dot displays such as the braille me which cannot use dots 7 and 8 to underline links, so there should be a method to indicate where the link begins or starts at, and where it ends, and normal text continues.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


NVDA not reading typed content in Windows 10 powershell terminal

Andy B.
 

Hi,

 

When I go into the Windows 10 powershell terminal, NVDA doesn’t read the typed content at the prompt. Is there any way to fix this problem?

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: In-Process 5th July

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Gene,

On my Windows 10 1903 version, without using the hotkey to display system tray icons, pressing enter or space bar has the same result.
It opens the Network Connections window.



On 7/25/2019 5:08 AM, Gene wrote:
I should correct my last message.  You say in older versions of Windows there is a distinction between double left click and single left click.  That is true.  You may be right about Windows 10 only having two ways of working with the system tray icons.  If so, then I was wrong in my last message where I said you gave incorrect information.  But this needs to be carefully checked, as your request for examples that disprove your Windows 10 statement implies. 
 
I can give you one specific instance that differs in Windows 7 and that you can test in Windows 10.  The following icon in Windows 7 distinguishes between space and enter.  The network icon, or connection icon, I'm not sure what the technical name is, only works properly if left single click, space bar, is used. 
I'm not sure exactly what happens when you use enter but it doesn't work properly.  As I recall a network flyout message is received. 
 
If this is tested in Windows 10 and the reaction is identical between enter and space and if no one else reports any differences, I withdraw my suspicions that the Windows description is incorrect.  But even if only one or two icons still distinguish between these commands, it should be stated without the qualification about earlier versions of Windows.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2019 11:56 PM
Subject: [nvda] In-Process 5th July

Hi everyone,

NVDA 2019.2 Beta 2, Mick taking a well-deserved break, updates to NVDACon and our Corporate page and details on accessing the Windows notification area, all in this week's In-Process!


Happy 4th of July to those in America, and happy weekend to everyone :)

 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: In-Process 5th July

Rui Fontes
 

Hello!

QTranslate icon with space bar does nothing and with Enter opens the QTranslate main window.

Rui Fontes


Às 11:43 de 25/07/2019, Quentin Christensen escreveu:

Gene,
Thanks for your input.  I can't remember the exact wording Luke proposed, but it certainly got me thinking about your previous remarks on this issue.  We also asked Microsoft Accessibility, and their response (as per https://twitter.com/MSFTEnable/status/1148296440931868673 ) was: "In the notification area these ...(enter and spacebar)... can be used interchangeably. You can also use the application key or shift+f10 to open the context menu with additional options."
I think there's also a fine line between providing every possible option to cover every possible scenario, and giving the average user too much information at once.
Re your specific example of the network icon, my Windows 7 machine isn't playing nice at the moment, so I'll have to wait to test and see if I can find any other examples myself (I certainly believe you), I can confirm in Windows 10 that the network icon behaves the same when you press ENTER as it does when you press SPACEBAR.
If anyone does have any examples of notification area icons which behave differently between pressing space and enter.  Also, any examples of icons which won't work with the keyboard are useful to be aware of as well.
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 7:46 PM Gene <gsasner@gmail.com <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>> wrote:
__
These are probably my final comments about the system tray unless
new information comes up.
The article doesn't state that first letter navigation can be used
in navigating the system tray.  Also, the article says that the
system tray window available for early versions of Windows is no
longer needed.  It is a dialog that the screen-reader displays. Aside from that clarification, I and two others in the discussion
that occurred not too long ago, said that there are on occasion,
icons that can't be activated by using the system tray with keyboard
commands directly.  NVDA developers should stop discounting the
system tray dialog.  There are cases where it gives better access. Such comments should not be made.  Even if there are a very few such
icons, it may be more convenient for some users to use the system
tray dialog, available as an add-on.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, July 25, 2019 4:08 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] In-Process 5th July
I should correct my last message.  You say in older versions of
Windows there is a distinction between double left click and single
left click.  That is true.  You may be right about Windows 10 only
having two ways of working with the system tray icons.  If so, then
I was wrong in my last message where I said you gave incorrect
information. But this needs to be carefully checked, as your request
for examples that disprove your Windows 10 statement implies.
I can give you one specific instance that differs in Windows 7 and
that you can test in Windows 10.  The following icon in Windows 7
distinguishes between space and enter.  The network icon, or
connection icon, I'm not sure what the technical name is, only works
properly if left single click, space bar, is used.
I'm not sure exactly what happens when you use enter but it doesn't
work properly.  As I recall a network flyout message is received.
If this is tested in Windows 10 and the reaction is identical
between enter and space and if no one else reports any differences,
I withdraw my suspicions that the Windows description is incorrect. But even if only one or two icons still distinguish between these
commands, it should be stated without the qualification about
earlier versions of Windows.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <mailto:quentin@nvaccess.org>
*Sent:* Thursday, July 04, 2019 11:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] In-Process 5th July
Hi everyone,
NVDA 2019.2 Beta 2, Mick taking a well-deserved break, updates to
NVDACon and our Corporate page and details on accessing the Windows
notification area, all in this week's In-Process!
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-5th-july/
Happy 4th of July to those in America, and happy weekend to everyone :)
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
NVDA 2019.2beta1
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2beta1-released/>; now
available!
Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>;
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>;
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
NVDA 2019.2beta1 <https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-2beta1-released/>; now available!
Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>;
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>;


Re: In-Process 5th July

Sylvie Duchateau
 

Hello Quentin, Gene and all,

Quentin, with windows 10 I have the same behavior as you have regarding the network icon, spacebar and enter work the same.

In some situations, such as my nextcloud or 1PASSWord icon, spacebar or enter does not do anything. The only way to access options is using the context menu key or shift=F10.

I hope this helps.

Best

Sylvie

Le 25/07/2019 à 12:43, Quentin Christensen a écrit :

Gene,

Thanks for your input.  I can't remember the exact wording Luke proposed, but it certainly got me thinking about your previous remarks on this issue.  We also asked Microsoft Accessibility, and their response (as per https://twitter.com/MSFTEnable/status/1148296440931868673 ) was: "In the notification area these ...(enter and spacebar)... can be used interchangeably. You can also use the application key or shift+f10 to open the context menu with additional options."

I think there's also a fine line between providing every possible option to cover every possible scenario, and giving the average user too much information at once.

Re your specific example of the network icon, my Windows 7 machine isn't playing nice at the moment, so I'll have to wait to test and see if I can find any other examples myself (I certainly believe you), I can confirm in Windows 10 that the network icon behaves the same when you press ENTER as it does when you press SPACEBAR.

If anyone does have any examples of notification area icons which behave differently between pressing space and enter.  Also, any examples of icons which won't work with the keyboard are useful to be aware of as well.

Kind regards

Quentin.


On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 7:46 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
These are probably my final comments about the system tray unless new information comes up. 
 
The article doesn't state that first letter navigation can be used in navigating the system tray.  Also, the article says that the system tray window available for early versions of Windows is no longer needed.  It is a dialog that the screen-reader displays.  Aside from that clarification, I and two others in the discussion that occurred not too long ago, said that there are on occasion, icons that can't be activated by using the system tray with keyboard commands directly.  NVDA developers should stop discounting the system tray dialog.  There are cases where it gives better access.  Such comments should not be made.  Even if there are a very few such icons, it may be more convenient for some users to use the system tray dialog, available as an add-on. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process 5th July

I should correct my last message.  You say in older versions of Windows there is a distinction between double left click and single left click.  That is true.  You may be right about Windows 10 only having two ways of working with the system tray icons.  If so, then I was wrong in my last message where I said you gave incorrect information.  But this needs to be carefully checked, as your request for examples that disprove your Windows 10 statement implies. 
 
I can give you one specific instance that differs in Windows 7 and that you can test in Windows 10.  The following icon in Windows 7 distinguishes between space and enter.  The network icon, or connection icon, I'm not sure what the technical name is, only works properly if left single click, space bar, is used. 
I'm not sure exactly what happens when you use enter but it doesn't work properly.  As I recall a network flyout message is received. 
 
If this is tested in Windows 10 and the reaction is identical between enter and space and if no one else reports any differences, I withdraw my suspicions that the Windows description is incorrect.  But even if only one or two icons still distinguish between these commands, it should be stated without the qualification about earlier versions of Windows.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2019 11:56 PM
Subject: [nvda] In-Process 5th July

Hi everyone,

NVDA 2019.2 Beta 2, Mick taking a well-deserved break, updates to NVDACon and our Corporate page and details on accessing the Windows notification area, all in this week's In-Process!


Happy 4th of July to those in America, and happy weekend to everyone :)

 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!


Re: In-Process 5th July

Quentin Christensen
 

Gene,

Thanks for your input.  I can't remember the exact wording Luke proposed, but it certainly got me thinking about your previous remarks on this issue.  We also asked Microsoft Accessibility, and their response (as per https://twitter.com/MSFTEnable/status/1148296440931868673 ) was: "In the notification area these ...(enter and spacebar)... can be used interchangeably. You can also use the application key or shift+f10 to open the context menu with additional options."

I think there's also a fine line between providing every possible option to cover every possible scenario, and giving the average user too much information at once.

Re your specific example of the network icon, my Windows 7 machine isn't playing nice at the moment, so I'll have to wait to test and see if I can find any other examples myself (I certainly believe you), I can confirm in Windows 10 that the network icon behaves the same when you press ENTER as it does when you press SPACEBAR.

If anyone does have any examples of notification area icons which behave differently between pressing space and enter.  Also, any examples of icons which won't work with the keyboard are useful to be aware of as well.

Kind regards

Quentin.


On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 7:46 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
These are probably my final comments about the system tray unless new information comes up. 
 
The article doesn't state that first letter navigation can be used in navigating the system tray.  Also, the article says that the system tray window available for early versions of Windows is no longer needed.  It is a dialog that the screen-reader displays.  Aside from that clarification, I and two others in the discussion that occurred not too long ago, said that there are on occasion, icons that can't be activated by using the system tray with keyboard commands directly.  NVDA developers should stop discounting the system tray dialog.  There are cases where it gives better access.  Such comments should not be made.  Even if there are a very few such icons, it may be more convenient for some users to use the system tray dialog, available as an add-on. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process 5th July

I should correct my last message.  You say in older versions of Windows there is a distinction between double left click and single left click.  That is true.  You may be right about Windows 10 only having two ways of working with the system tray icons.  If so, then I was wrong in my last message where I said you gave incorrect information.  But this needs to be carefully checked, as your request for examples that disprove your Windows 10 statement implies. 
 
I can give you one specific instance that differs in Windows 7 and that you can test in Windows 10.  The following icon in Windows 7 distinguishes between space and enter.  The network icon, or connection icon, I'm not sure what the technical name is, only works properly if left single click, space bar, is used. 
I'm not sure exactly what happens when you use enter but it doesn't work properly.  As I recall a network flyout message is received. 
 
If this is tested in Windows 10 and the reaction is identical between enter and space and if no one else reports any differences, I withdraw my suspicions that the Windows description is incorrect.  But even if only one or two icons still distinguish between these commands, it should be stated without the qualification about earlier versions of Windows.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2019 11:56 PM
Subject: [nvda] In-Process 5th July

Hi everyone,

NVDA 2019.2 Beta 2, Mick taking a well-deserved break, updates to NVDACon and our Corporate page and details on accessing the Windows notification area, all in this week's In-Process!


Happy 4th of July to those in America, and happy weekend to everyone :)

 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!


Re: In-Process 5th July

Gene
 

These are probably my final comments about the system tray unless new information comes up. 
 
The article doesn't state that first letter navigation can be used in navigating the system tray.  Also, the article says that the system tray window available for early versions of Windows is no longer needed.  It is a dialog that the screen-reader displays.  Aside from that clarification, I and two others in the discussion that occurred not too long ago, said that there are on occasion, icons that can't be activated by using the system tray with keyboard commands directly.  NVDA developers should stop discounting the system tray dialog.  There are cases where it gives better access.  Such comments should not be made.  Even if there are a very few such icons, it may be more convenient for some users to use the system tray dialog, available as an add-on. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process 5th July

I should correct my last message.  You say in older versions of Windows there is a distinction between double left click and single left click.  That is true.  You may be right about Windows 10 only having two ways of working with the system tray icons.  If so, then I was wrong in my last message where I said you gave incorrect information.  But this needs to be carefully checked, as your request for examples that disprove your Windows 10 statement implies. 
 
I can give you one specific instance that differs in Windows 7 and that you can test in Windows 10.  The following icon in Windows 7 distinguishes between space and enter.  The network icon, or connection icon, I'm not sure what the technical name is, only works properly if left single click, space bar, is used. 
I'm not sure exactly what happens when you use enter but it doesn't work properly.  As I recall a network flyout message is received. 
 
If this is tested in Windows 10 and the reaction is identical between enter and space and if no one else reports any differences, I withdraw my suspicions that the Windows description is incorrect.  But even if only one or two icons still distinguish between these commands, it should be stated without the qualification about earlier versions of Windows.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2019 11:56 PM
Subject: [nvda] In-Process 5th July

Hi everyone,

NVDA 2019.2 Beta 2, Mick taking a well-deserved break, updates to NVDACon and our Corporate page and details on accessing the Windows notification area, all in this week's In-Process!


Happy 4th of July to those in America, and happy weekend to everyone :)

 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!

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