1. nvda@nvda.groups.io
   Date   
Re: input help

Gene
 

You must be in the program where the keys apply if they are program specific. If you are in a browser, you can press letter keys and hear announcements such as that x is move to the next check box, c moves to the next combo box, etc.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 11:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] input help

I tried to use the input help function of NVDA using the insert 1 keys
and find that the input help does not nearly cover all the possible
keys. For example after turning input help on and entering insert f7 it
says nothing even though this is the key combo to get a list of elements
like links on a web page. Is there a way to improve this input help so
it will identify all nva keys?
Re: NVDA Equivalent to "Route Jaws to PC"?

Chris Smart
 

Ok, thanks David.


I'm relatively new to relying on NVDA for more day-to-day computing tasks, and I still sometimes find myself in situations where it seems things are easier in Jaws. It's usually just a case of me not having ObjectNav figured out yet though.



On 2020-11-27 1:27 p.m., David Griffith wrote:

As far as I can tell it is exactly the same if you are using a numpad.

 

That is Insert minus or dash depending on how it is announced.

NVDA announces  move to focus which is I think the NVDA equivalent. As NVDA does not have a Jaws cursor function in the same way as Jaws I think it has to be used more with object navigation but I will leave others more qualified to comment on this.

David G.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Chris Smart
Sent: 27 November 2020 18:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA Equivalent to "Route Jaws to PC"?

 

Hi.

 

Is there an NVDA equivalent to the Jaws command that routes Jaws cursor

to PC cursor?

 

 

thanks

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Re: NVDA Equivalent to "Route Jaws to PC"?

David Griffith
 

As far as I can tell it is exactly the same if you are using a numpad.

 

That is Insert minus or dash depending on how it is announced.

NVDA announces  move to focus which is I think the NVDA equivalent. As NVDA does not have a Jaws cursor function in the same way as Jaws I think it has to be used more with object navigation but I will leave others more qualified to comment on this.

David G.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Chris Smart
Sent: 27 November 2020 18:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA Equivalent to "Route Jaws to PC"?

 

Hi.

 

Is there an NVDA equivalent to the Jaws command that routes Jaws cursor

to PC cursor?

 

 

thanks

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
NVDA Equivalent to "Route Jaws to PC"?

Chris Smart
 

Hi.

Is there an NVDA equivalent to the Jaws command that routes Jaws cursor to PC cursor?


thanks

Chris
Re: list of links

Gene
 

Links is the default setting. If you change it, you may have to reset it, I don't know but if you haven't used the feature before, it will already be set for links.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 10:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] list of links



Nvda plus f7, then tab to the radio button and choose links. This si called the elements list. Search the menual for "elements" and you should be good to go. You can even filter in the search field.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 27 Nov 2020, at 8:53, Don H wrote:



I thought there was a NVDA command to create a list of all links on a web page. Having said that I can't find any reference to it in the NVDA manuals. Is there such a command?
Thanks
Re: input help

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,
Input help is context-sensitive, similar to input gestures dialog. You won't get help messages on elements list (NVDA+F7) unless you invoke input help from a browse mode window.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 9:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] input help

I tried to use the input help function of NVDA using the insert 1 keys and find that the input help does not nearly cover all the possible keys. For example after turning input help on and entering insert f7 it says nothing even though this is the key combo to get a list of elements like links on a web page. Is there a way to improve this input help so it will identify all nva keys?
input help

Don H
 

I tried to use the input help function of NVDA using the insert 1 keys and find that the input help does not nearly cover all the possible keys. For example after turning input help on and entering insert f7 it says nothing even though this is the key combo to get a list of elements like links on a web page. Is there a way to improve this input help so it will identify all nva keys?
Re: list of links

Angelo Sonnesso
 

NVDA plus F7.


73 N2DYN Angelo

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 11:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] list of links

I thought there was a NVDA command to create a list of all links on a
web page. Having said that I can't find any reference to it in the NVDA
manuals. Is there such a command?
Thanks
Re: list of links

Sarah k Alawami
 

Nvda plus f7, then tab to the radio button and choose links. This si called the elements list. Search the menual for "elements" and you should be good to go. You can even filter in the search field.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 27 Nov 2020, at 8:53, Don H wrote:

I thought there was a NVDA command to create a list of all links on a web page. Having said that I can't find any reference to it in the NVDA manuals. Is there such a command?
Thanks
list of links

Don H
 

I thought there was a NVDA command to create a list of all links on a web page. Having said that I can't find any reference to it in the NVDA manuals. Is there such a command?
Thanks
Holiday Deal from A.T. Guys: Eloquence and Vocalizer Addon for NVDA; $59.00, Ten Dollar Discount

David Goldfield
 

I'm not sure how long this offer will be valid but this addon can be purchased for $59.00.
https://www.atguys.com/store/index.php?main_page=specials

--
David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
Re: Unable to start up nvda

Paul O'Rahilly
 

Hi Folks

Short cut functioning again. No need to uninstall / reinstall, but I
might just do this anyway.

All I needed to do was to follow the procedure below, and restart the laptop.

Thanks muchly, P

On 11/25/20, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
An uninstall, system restart, and reinstall, choosing the option to create a
desktop shortcut/keyboard shortcut, is likely your best option.

This often cures a multitude of sins, and not just with NVDA. And it's easy
to do as well.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

*If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to
something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you
have a legal mind.*

~ Thomas Reed Powell
Re: NVDA Navigation Using Touch Gestures and Setting Up Custom Gestures

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,

In a way, it might be possible to do this (I cannot guarantee that Enhanced Touch Gestures will include this feature in the end, as the future of that add-on is a bit uncertain at the moment). I say “might” because:

Touch navigation is intimately tied to object navigation. Partly because in mobile operating systems such as iOS and Android, when you move between controls with touch gestures, all sorts of controls will be visited. Of course there are some areas that you can’t really navigate with flicks alone – you do need to move your finger to iOS’s status bar to interact with items up there to some degree.

On Windows, touch gestures didn’t really take off until Windows 8. Despite attempts to make the touch interface mimic that of mobile operating systems, Microsoft realized that emphasizing touch interface alone didn’t work. In the end, the biggest lesson Microsoft learned is that many people prefer keyboard and mouse to manipulate things on screen, the biggest evidence being hiding tablet mode on Windows 10 Version 20H2 (October 2020 Update) if a system doesn’t support touch or does not include touch-capable hardware.

The first Windows screen reader to take advantage of touch gestures was Narrator, and NVDA followed soon after, borrowing heavily from VoiceOver and concepts used there; in fact, touch support was one of the things that attracted me to NVDA community. Despite introduction of touch gestures and efforts to improve it (that’s really what Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on is all about), NVDA people (users and developers) knew that keyboard was the primary input device. Back when it was first designed (and is still the case in 2020), because NVDA’s touch support borrows heavily from VoiceOver, touch is used mostly for reviewing screen content, not as a primary interaction tool. Also, because you can indeed separate review cursor and caret tracking, or for that matter, you can review up to two controls at once (system focus and another control through navigator object), and since touch interaction is affected by where the navigator object is located, you can’t really generalize touch commands to Windows commands easily, especially when you consider that you might be editing a document while you are exploring Taskbar icons via touch (whereas on smartphones, all you see is what you get to explore, on Windows and other desktop level operating systems, you’ll see many things at once).

Regarding my statement in the beginning (uncertainty of Enhanced Touch Gestures’ future), I can’t comment on specifics at this time, but suffice to say that, around this time next year, I might be asking around for a new maintainer of that add-on. I can maintain Enhanced Touch Gestures and do plan to use touch devices for a while, but life goes on, so I need to move on.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Khalid Anwar
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 10:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Navigation Using Touch Gestures and Setting Up Custom Gestures

 

 I think, and I don't know how practical this would be in real terms, that a text selection mode could be added so that text can be highlighted by character, word, line, et cetera using the standard flick left and write gestures, and then mapping touch gestures onto existing  Windows  keyboard gestures for copy and paste control C and control V. 
 I think the line between smart phones, tablets, laptops, notebooks and PCs is blurring almost every year, and so most  programmes  will be able to support some form of touch support in the near future  though how well they do it is another matter entirely. 
 I also wonder how many of these screen reader gestures that we use have been copyrighted or trademarked by iOS or android, how long is it before they decide that  a particular gesture to perform a particular function can only be used on their devices and anyone else who does this should be punished. 

Re: NVDA Navigation Using Touch Gestures and Setting Up Custom Gestures

Khalid Anwar
 

 I think, and I don't know how practical this would be in real terms, that a text selection mode could be added so that text can be highlighted by character, word, line, et cetera using the standard flick left and write gestures, and then mapping touch gestures onto existing  Windows  keyboard gestures for copy and paste control C and control V. 
 I think the line between smart phones, tablets, laptops, notebooks and PCs is blurring almost every year, and so most  programmes  will be able to support some form of touch support in the near future  though how well they do it is another matter entirely. 
 I also wonder how many of these screen reader gestures that we use have been copyrighted or trademarked by iOS or android, how long is it before they decide that  a particular gesture to perform a particular function can only be used on their devices and anyone else who does this should be punished. 
Cerence

Andrea Sherry
 

Is this a new voice available for NVDA?

Is there a demo site available?

Cheers

Andrea
Re: Touch interaction off and on

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,
No need to do that - because NVDA+D is coming from an add-on (specifically, a global plugin), it will override NVDA+D command assigned in browse mode. This may not be the case in 2021, and for that, you can simply add NVDA+D as a gesture (via input gestures dialog) for toggling touch interaction. However, I advise against removing NVDA+D from browse mode because it will introduce confusion in the long term - you may come across a situation where long description of images would be helpful, and if you do remove NVDA+D from browse mode, there's no way to read it. If you are going to assign a command for toggling touch interaction, I advise looking into shortcuts that are easy to remember and doesn’t conflict with various NVDA functions (including ones coming from add-ons you are using).
An interesting approach for solving this dilemma is creating a manually activated configuration profile that will disable touch interaction altogether. You can even assign a dedicated command to activate this profile if you choose. But then we return to the starting point: you must find a shortcut that is easy to remember/use and doesn’t conflict with existing NVDA shortcuts.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 10:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

OK so how do I remove the insert d command for browse mode and reassign it to touch interaction.


On 11/26/2020 12:37 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,
Let me answer both questions in one sitting:
To Don: NVDA+D is a tricky gesture - it is easy to invoke, but that's not why it is tricky. It is tricky because NVDA+D is used in browse mode to find out if an image has long description. That's why I do not assign commands to add-on features that I know will conflict with NVDA in all sorts of scenarios (including other add-ons).
To Gene: when I submitted touch interaction toggle pull request (subsequently accepted), I advised NV Access to not assign keyboard commands to toggle touch interaction, knowing that you can do so from NVDA menu/Preferences/Settings/Touch interaction panel. Another reason was to avoid future command conflicts, as we are a bit closer to exhausting easy to remember/use keyboard shortcuts. In a follow-up pull request (accepted after mine was integrated into NVDA), another contributor pointed out that it would be best to provide a keyboard shortcut to toggle touch interaction, and people felt that a combination that's a bit harder to press would send a message that one must be truly willing to toggle touch support to prevent accidentally turning off touch interaction support.
Part of my initial pull request and my advice to NV Access stems from Enhanced Touch Gestures. For a number of years, the add-on did come with a possibility to toggle touch interaction, but I intentionally didn't assign a keyboard command to do that because there was rarely a need to toggle touch support, even for a few seconds just for the purpose of passing on touch gestures directly to the app the user is using. I also made it so that touch support was a profile-specific setting, meaning that one can create an app-specific profile to turn off touch support for an app that does provide its own touch support facility (I believe both the users list and NVDA add-ons list had a discussion about this a few years ago, and I remember actively participating in it). In other words, the initial pull request that did introduce touch interaction toggle in NVDA 2020.3 came directly from Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on, with a follow-up work done by another person that added a keyboard shortcut to toggle this, and I modified the add-on to take this into account. Because NVDA 2020.3 includes touch interaction toggle facility, there's no need for Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on to duplicate this functionality, therefore the add-on will be modified (actually, it was modified but is sitting in my development lab) in 2021 to absolutely require NVDA 2020.3; once that's done, the scope of the add-on will be reduced significantly but it will still retain features such as web navigation mode and synth settings mode (and in the future, possibly asking someone else to take care of the add-on in hopes of reducing my workload; trust me, when you maintain dozens of add-ons, it can create headaches).
Hope this clarifies many things (do let me know if you have questions or comments).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 10:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

When you say control alt insert t, does that mean control alt insert or control alt NVDA key? In any default use, control alt NVDA key is very unpleasant to use. Even if I have shift set to work as an NVDA key, I still use my thumb and little finger for control and alt, my little finger on control and my thumb on alt. It is the only way I can free fingers to be able to press capslock. And unless using the caps lock, I see no way of activating that command using insert as the actual insert key, either num;pad insert or on a keypad.

Isn't there some far better alternative such as a function key and t like f6 t, for example?

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 11:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

fact is I would rather have insert d for toggling rather than control alt insert t

On 11/26/2020 11:52 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
I see. The thing is, NVDA+D doesn't work on my system even with
Enhanced Touch Gestures 20.09 (latest version) installed, so I'm
thinking this is unique to your commands set up. If NVDA+D works on
your system in 2021 (after the next Enhanced touch Gestures add-on
version shows up), I'll take a look at what's up (it doesn’t mean I'm
closing this issue right away).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

The control alt insert t is shown and in fact it does work to toggle
touch interaction however insert d also still works.

On 11/26/2020 10:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
I see. Can you try:
1. Go to NVDA menu/Preferences/Input gestures.
2. Expand "Touch screen" category.
3. Go through the list of commands and look for duplicates or toggle
command. Or, to be specific, look for "toggles support for touch
interaction" and expand it.
4. You should see NVDA+Ctrl+Alt+T listed. If you see another command
listed, remove it, as toggling touch support through Enhanced Touch
Gestures add-on will be completely removed in 2021.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

I have version 20.09 of the enhanced touch gestures installed and the
insert d still works to toggle off and on touch interactions

On 11/26/2020 10:21 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,
I had an offlist conversation with Don about it, so I can give
weight to this discussion.
I bet this might have to do with the version of Enhanced Touch
Gestures one is using. The fact that NVDA+D doesn't work when the
add-on is disabled speaks volume to this hypothesis. Besides, in an
upcoming version of Enhanced Touch Gestures, the add-on specific
command to toggle touch interaction will be removed in favor of
NVDA's way of doing it (speaking of which, you can toggle touch
interaction in NVDA 2020.3 in two ways: Control+Alt+NVDA+T, or going
to NVDA menu/Preferences/Settings/Touch interaction).
Cheers,
Joseph



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 5:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

I am running the latest release of NVDA on a win 10 20h2 system. In
the past the hot key for turning toch interaction on and off was insert d.
I am told that this should no longer work however on my system
insert d still turns touch interaction off and on. Is this key
combination still working for you? The current hot key is supposed
to be control alt insert t which I find to be a really difficult key
combo for my old fingers.
Re: Touch interaction off and on

Don H
 

OK so how do I remove the insert d command for browse mode and reassign it to touch interaction.

On 11/26/2020 12:37 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,
Let me answer both questions in one sitting:
To Don: NVDA+D is a tricky gesture - it is easy to invoke, but that's not why it is tricky. It is tricky because NVDA+D is used in browse mode to find out if an image has long description. That's why I do not assign commands to add-on features that I know will conflict with NVDA in all sorts of scenarios (including other add-ons).
To Gene: when I submitted touch interaction toggle pull request (subsequently accepted), I advised NV Access to not assign keyboard commands to toggle touch interaction, knowing that you can do so from NVDA menu/Preferences/Settings/Touch interaction panel. Another reason was to avoid future command conflicts, as we are a bit closer to exhausting easy to remember/use keyboard shortcuts. In a follow-up pull request (accepted after mine was integrated into NVDA), another contributor pointed out that it would be best to provide a keyboard shortcut to toggle touch interaction, and people felt that a combination that's a bit harder to press would send a message that one must be truly willing to toggle touch support to prevent accidentally turning off touch interaction support.
Part of my initial pull request and my advice to NV Access stems from Enhanced Touch Gestures. For a number of years, the add-on did come with a possibility to toggle touch interaction, but I intentionally didn't assign a keyboard command to do that because there was rarely a need to toggle touch support, even for a few seconds just for the purpose of passing on touch gestures directly to the app the user is using. I also made it so that touch support was a profile-specific setting, meaning that one can create an app-specific profile to turn off touch support for an app that does provide its own touch support facility (I believe both the users list and NVDA add-ons list had a discussion about this a few years ago, and I remember actively participating in it). In other words, the initial pull request that did introduce touch interaction toggle in NVDA 2020.3 came directly from Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on, with a follow-up work done by another person that added a keyboard shortcut to toggle this, and I modified the add-on to take this into account. Because NVDA 2020.3 includes touch interaction toggle facility, there's no need for Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on to duplicate this functionality, therefore the add-on will be modified (actually, it was modified but is sitting in my development lab) in 2021 to absolutely require NVDA 2020.3; once that's done, the scope of the add-on will be reduced significantly but it will still retain features such as web navigation mode and synth settings mode (and in the future, possibly asking someone else to take care of the add-on in hopes of reducing my workload; trust me, when you maintain dozens of add-ons, it can create headaches).
Hope this clarifies many things (do let me know if you have questions or comments).
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 10:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on
When you say control alt insert t, does that mean control alt insert or control alt NVDA key? In any default use, control alt NVDA key is very unpleasant to use. Even if I have shift set to work as an NVDA key, I still use my thumb and little finger for control and alt, my little finger on control and my thumb on alt. It is the only way I can free fingers to be able to press capslock. And unless using the caps lock, I see no way of activating that command using insert as the actual insert key, either num;pad insert or on a keypad.
Isn't there some far better alternative such as a function key and t like f6 t, for example?
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 11:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on
fact is I would rather have insert d for toggling rather than control alt insert t
On 11/26/2020 11:52 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
I see. The thing is, NVDA+D doesn't work on my system even with
Enhanced Touch Gestures 20.09 (latest version) installed, so I'm
thinking this is unique to your commands set up. If NVDA+D works on
your system in 2021 (after the next Enhanced touch Gestures add-on
version shows up), I'll take a look at what's up (it doesn’t mean I'm
closing this issue right away).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

The control alt insert t is shown and in fact it does work to toggle
touch interaction however insert d also still works.

On 11/26/2020 10:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
I see. Can you try:
1. Go to NVDA menu/Preferences/Input gestures.
2. Expand "Touch screen" category.
3. Go through the list of commands and look for duplicates or toggle
command. Or, to be specific, look for "toggles support for touch
interaction" and expand it.
4. You should see NVDA+Ctrl+Alt+T listed. If you see another command
listed, remove it, as toggling touch support through Enhanced Touch
Gestures add-on will be completely removed in 2021.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

I have version 20.09 of the enhanced touch gestures installed and the
insert d still works to toggle off and on touch interactions

On 11/26/2020 10:21 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,
I had an offlist conversation with Don about it, so I can give
weight to this discussion.
I bet this might have to do with the version of Enhanced Touch
Gestures one is using. The fact that NVDA+D doesn't work when the
add-on is disabled speaks volume to this hypothesis. Besides, in an
upcoming version of Enhanced Touch Gestures, the add-on specific
command to toggle touch interaction will be removed in favor of
NVDA's way of doing it (speaking of which, you can toggle touch
interaction in NVDA 2020.3 in two ways: Control+Alt+NVDA+T, or going
to NVDA menu/Preferences/Settings/Touch interaction).
Cheers,
Joseph



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 5:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

I am running the latest release of NVDA on a win 10 20h2 system. In
the past the hot key for turning toch interaction on and off was insert d.
I am told that this should no longer work however on my system
insert d still turns touch interaction off and on. Is this key
combination still working for you? The current hot key is supposed
to be control alt insert t which I find to be a really difficult key
combo for my old fingers.
Re: Touch interaction off and on

Joseph Lee
 

Hi all,
Let me answer both questions in one sitting:
To Don: NVDA+D is a tricky gesture - it is easy to invoke, but that's not why it is tricky. It is tricky because NVDA+D is used in browse mode to find out if an image has long description. That's why I do not assign commands to add-on features that I know will conflict with NVDA in all sorts of scenarios (including other add-ons).
To Gene: when I submitted touch interaction toggle pull request (subsequently accepted), I advised NV Access to not assign keyboard commands to toggle touch interaction, knowing that you can do so from NVDA menu/Preferences/Settings/Touch interaction panel. Another reason was to avoid future command conflicts, as we are a bit closer to exhausting easy to remember/use keyboard shortcuts. In a follow-up pull request (accepted after mine was integrated into NVDA), another contributor pointed out that it would be best to provide a keyboard shortcut to toggle touch interaction, and people felt that a combination that's a bit harder to press would send a message that one must be truly willing to toggle touch support to prevent accidentally turning off touch interaction support.
Part of my initial pull request and my advice to NV Access stems from Enhanced Touch Gestures. For a number of years, the add-on did come with a possibility to toggle touch interaction, but I intentionally didn't assign a keyboard command to do that because there was rarely a need to toggle touch support, even for a few seconds just for the purpose of passing on touch gestures directly to the app the user is using. I also made it so that touch support was a profile-specific setting, meaning that one can create an app-specific profile to turn off touch support for an app that does provide its own touch support facility (I believe both the users list and NVDA add-ons list had a discussion about this a few years ago, and I remember actively participating in it). In other words, the initial pull request that did introduce touch interaction toggle in NVDA 2020.3 came directly from Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on, with a follow-up work done by another person that added a keyboard shortcut to toggle this, and I modified the add-on to take this into account. Because NVDA 2020.3 includes touch interaction toggle facility, there's no need for Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on to duplicate this functionality, therefore the add-on will be modified (actually, it was modified but is sitting in my development lab) in 2021 to absolutely require NVDA 2020.3; once that's done, the scope of the add-on will be reduced significantly but it will still retain features such as web navigation mode and synth settings mode (and in the future, possibly asking someone else to take care of the add-on in hopes of reducing my workload; trust me, when you maintain dozens of add-ons, it can create headaches).
Hope this clarifies many things (do let me know if you have questions or comments).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 10:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

When you say control alt insert t, does that mean control alt insert or control alt NVDA key? In any default use, control alt NVDA key is very unpleasant to use. Even if I have shift set to work as an NVDA key, I still use my thumb and little finger for control and alt, my little finger on control and my thumb on alt. It is the only way I can free fingers to be able to press capslock. And unless using the caps lock, I see no way of activating that command using insert as the actual insert key, either num;pad insert or on a keypad.

Isn't there some far better alternative such as a function key and t like f6 t, for example?

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 11:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

fact is I would rather have insert d for toggling rather than control alt insert t

On 11/26/2020 11:52 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
I see. The thing is, NVDA+D doesn't work on my system even with
Enhanced Touch Gestures 20.09 (latest version) installed, so I'm
thinking this is unique to your commands set up. If NVDA+D works on
your system in 2021 (after the next Enhanced touch Gestures add-on
version shows up), I'll take a look at what's up (it doesn’t mean I'm
closing this issue right away).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

The control alt insert t is shown and in fact it does work to toggle
touch interaction however insert d also still works.

On 11/26/2020 10:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
I see. Can you try:
1. Go to NVDA menu/Preferences/Input gestures.
2. Expand "Touch screen" category.
3. Go through the list of commands and look for duplicates or toggle
command. Or, to be specific, look for "toggles support for touch
interaction" and expand it.
4. You should see NVDA+Ctrl+Alt+T listed. If you see another command
listed, remove it, as toggling touch support through Enhanced Touch
Gestures add-on will be completely removed in 2021.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

I have version 20.09 of the enhanced touch gestures installed and the
insert d still works to toggle off and on touch interactions

On 11/26/2020 10:21 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,
I had an offlist conversation with Don about it, so I can give
weight to this discussion.
I bet this might have to do with the version of Enhanced Touch
Gestures one is using. The fact that NVDA+D doesn't work when the
add-on is disabled speaks volume to this hypothesis. Besides, in an
upcoming version of Enhanced Touch Gestures, the add-on specific
command to toggle touch interaction will be removed in favor of
NVDA's way of doing it (speaking of which, you can toggle touch
interaction in NVDA 2020.3 in two ways: Control+Alt+NVDA+T, or going
to NVDA menu/Preferences/Settings/Touch interaction).
Cheers,
Joseph



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 5:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

I am running the latest release of NVDA on a win 10 20h2 system. In
the past the hot key for turning toch interaction on and off was insert d.
I am told that this should no longer work however on my system
insert d still turns touch interaction off and on. Is this key
combination still working for you? The current hot key is supposed
to be control alt insert t which I find to be a really difficult key
combo for my old fingers.
Re: Touch interaction off and on

Gene
 

When you say control alt insert t, does that mean control alt insert or control alt NVDA key? In any default use, control alt NVDA key is very unpleasant to use. Even if I have shift set to work as an NVDA key, I still use my thumb and little finger for control and alt, my little finger on control and my thumb on alt. It is the only way I can free fingers to be able to press capslock. And unless using the caps lock, I see no way of activating that command using insert as the actual insert key, either num;pad insert or on a keypad.

Isn't there some far better alternative such as a function key and t like f6 t, for example?

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 11:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

fact is I would rather have insert d for toggling rather than control
alt insert t

On 11/26/2020 11:52 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
I see. The thing is, NVDA+D doesn't work on my system even with Enhanced Touch Gestures 20.09 (latest version) installed, so I'm thinking this is unique to your commands set up. If NVDA+D works on your system in 2021 (after the next Enhanced touch Gestures add-on version shows up), I'll take a look at what's up (it doesn’t mean I'm closing this issue right away).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

The control alt insert t is shown and in fact it does work to toggle touch interaction however insert d also still works.

On 11/26/2020 10:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
I see. Can you try:
1. Go to NVDA menu/Preferences/Input gestures.
2. Expand "Touch screen" category.
3. Go through the list of commands and look for duplicates or toggle command. Or, to be specific, look for "toggles support for touch interaction" and expand it.
4. You should see NVDA+Ctrl+Alt+T listed. If you see another command listed, remove it, as toggling touch support through Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on will be completely removed in 2021.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

I have version 20.09 of the enhanced touch gestures installed and the
insert d still works to toggle off and on touch interactions

On 11/26/2020 10:21 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,
I had an offlist conversation with Don about it, so I can give weight to this discussion.
I bet this might have to do with the version of Enhanced Touch Gestures one is using. The fact that NVDA+D doesn't work when the add-on is disabled speaks volume to this hypothesis. Besides, in an upcoming version of Enhanced Touch Gestures, the add-on specific command to toggle touch interaction will be removed in favor of NVDA's way of doing it (speaking of which, you can toggle touch interaction in NVDA 2020.3 in two ways: Control+Alt+NVDA+T, or going to NVDA menu/Preferences/Settings/Touch interaction).
Cheers,
Joseph



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 5:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

I am running the latest release of NVDA on a win 10 20h2 system. In the past the hot key for turning toch interaction on and off was insert d.
I am told that this should no longer work however on my system insert d still turns touch interaction off and on. Is this key combination still working for you? The current hot key is supposed to be control alt insert t which I find to be a really difficult key combo for my old fingers.
Re: Touch interaction off and on

Don H
 

fact is I would rather have insert d for toggling rather than control alt insert t

On 11/26/2020 11:52 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
I see. The thing is, NVDA+D doesn't work on my system even with Enhanced Touch Gestures 20.09 (latest version) installed, so I'm thinking this is unique to your commands set up. If NVDA+D works on your system in 2021 (after the next Enhanced touch Gestures add-on version shows up), I'll take a look at what's up (it doesn’t mean I'm closing this issue right away).
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on
The control alt insert t is shown and in fact it does work to toggle touch interaction however insert d also still works.
On 11/26/2020 10:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
I see. Can you try:
1. Go to NVDA menu/Preferences/Input gestures.
2. Expand "Touch screen" category.
3. Go through the list of commands and look for duplicates or toggle command. Or, to be specific, look for "toggles support for touch interaction" and expand it.
4. You should see NVDA+Ctrl+Alt+T listed. If you see another command listed, remove it, as toggling touch support through Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on will be completely removed in 2021.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

I have version 20.09 of the enhanced touch gestures installed and the
insert d still works to toggle off and on touch interactions

On 11/26/2020 10:21 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,
I had an offlist conversation with Don about it, so I can give weight to this discussion.
I bet this might have to do with the version of Enhanced Touch Gestures one is using. The fact that NVDA+D doesn't work when the add-on is disabled speaks volume to this hypothesis. Besides, in an upcoming version of Enhanced Touch Gestures, the add-on specific command to toggle touch interaction will be removed in favor of NVDA's way of doing it (speaking of which, you can toggle touch interaction in NVDA 2020.3 in two ways: Control+Alt+NVDA+T, or going to NVDA menu/Preferences/Settings/Touch interaction).
Cheers,
Joseph



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 5:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

I am running the latest release of NVDA on a win 10 20h2 system. In the past the hot key for turning toch interaction on and off was insert d.
I am told that this should no longer work however on my system insert d still turns touch interaction off and on. Is this key combination still working for you? The current hot key is supposed to be control alt insert t which I find to be a really difficult key combo for my old fingers.
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