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Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

I think we're having a difference of terms here. 

The default mode for NVDA in a web browser is of course browse mode.  If you enter on a form element, it then switches into forms mode.  Switching out of this forms mode puts you back into browse mode.  Feel free to correcxt me if I'm wrong, but that is my experience, and also what the documentation claims, so with that said.

I will repeat my assertion that control-F works just fine when I'm in Chrome, and I want to find something on the page.  I simply hit control-F, type in what I'm looking for, and my cursor is moved to the point where that text appears.  If I want to search for the same text again, I simply press F3, and I'm moved to the next occurrence of the text.  I need not use NVDA specific commands to get this behavior, the standard windows find command works just fine, and always has for me.

If you're talking about something else, then please enlighten me, because I don't know of any other way to look at screen content.

On 2/25/2019 10:20 PM, Gene wrote:
If you search using a browser or a PDF reader that supports browse mode, you have to use the NVDA find command.  The Windows program command won't work.  Since the thread is about the NVDA find command in browse mode, this needs to be clearly stated to avoid confusion. 
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I wasn't talking about the NVDA specific search function, I was talking about the find function that is present in just about every windows program in existence.  A simple control-F will do your initial find, and after that, simply pressing F3 will repeat the find command from the current position of the regular cursor.  I almost never find it useful or necessary to use the NVDA specific find function.  As I said, I've only had to use it a handful of times. 

I always use the standard windows find function and it almost always works for me with little to no issues.  And, it's fewer keystrokes, so it saves me lots of time as well.


On 2/25/2019 9:39 PM, Gene wrote:
That isn't correct.  In NVDA, to search when in browse mode, the command is either insert and control. while holding those keys, type f to open the search dialog.  Repeat search is either insert and f3.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

The screen reader works just fine with the text of the web page.  I use control-f all the time to search for things, and it always works, except when the page is loaded with javascript that yanks the focus away from the main cursor.  Any normal web page works just fine with the ergular find command.  As I said before, I've only ever used the NVDA find command a couple times.  Of course, for the most part, it's not really necessary to search for things on the web page if you use your navigation commands to get from here to there in web browsers.

On 2/24/2019 1:05 PM, Gene wrote:
The screen-reader can't work with the search built into the browser.  The page that you are reading is in a buffer where the screen-reader reformats it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

So it's an option that the screen reader isn't able to deal with, is it right?
Sorry for asking too much as I am but it really got me curious.
Em 24/02/2019 14:30, Gene escreveu:
If you aren't using a screen-reader you use the actual search built into the browser itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

But, what's the point of the "search for" option built-in on the browser? How one would deal with this option not using a screen reader?
Em 24/02/2019 14:11, Gene escreveu:
You are searching using the buffer which screen-readers that use browse mode or the Virtual PC cursor use.  You aren't working directly with the page in browse mode or equivalent mode in a different screen-reader.  You must use the search command the screen-reader designates.
 
Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 10:09 AM
Subject: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Hi guys,
Anyone could tell me what's the difference between these two commands?
I'm asking because using the browser command to search, nothing happens after I hit enter. On the other hand if I use the NVDA command I'll able to search for what I'm wanting to.
P.S.: Using Firefox.

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Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I know shift enter opens a link in a new window but the original poster wasn't clear about what he wanted to do.



On 2/25/2019 7:28 PM, Gene wrote:
Shift enter opens the link in a new Window.  It may allow you to follow a link if a popup blocker is keeping it from functioning because the link is intended to open a new window. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Another way to select the link if you can't use enter is to hit shift enter.



On 2/25/2019 7:12 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
Sorry, I should have been clear. I am trying to understand how a keybaord only-NVDA user would select a link while in browse mode, and whether they would need to switch to forms mode.

Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

 

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 10:25 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
I mean I want to activate the link, not copy it.
If you're in browse mode, and have focus on a link, then spacebar or enter (often either one, but I have had the rare occasion where either one or the other is the only one that works) activates the link.

By the way, I'm a fully sighted tutor for assistive technology.  If you're using NVDA for testing and are sighted I cannot implore you strongly enough to go to:  https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html, then promptly download and install the Focus Highlight Add-On.  It allows those of us who see to be directly cued as to NVDA's current state with regard to the item that currently has focus.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Gene
 

Shift enter opens the link in a new Window.  It may allow you to follow a link if a popup blocker is keeping it from functioning because the link is intended to open a new window. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Another way to select the link if you can't use enter is to hit shift enter.



On 2/25/2019 7:12 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
Sorry, I should have been clear. I am trying to understand how a keybaord only-NVDA user would select a link while in browse mode, and whether they would need to switch to forms mode.

Re: Hearing "Unknown" when Using a Mouse

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Some forms have radio buttons which allow you to make a choice whenselecting something. There are also combo boxes.



On 2/25/2019 7:25 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:

When using forms mode, it is expected that some sort of identifying text will be included with the item needing to be acted upon.  Therefore, some checkboxes might have a title saying it's the yes or the no check box.  If the said text isn't present, then NVDA has no way to know what the item is refering to, so will only state the actual item and not what it is supposed to be referring to.  This goes for all gui elements, not just checkboxes.

On 2/25/2019 10:10 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
I am a software developer trying to develop accessible software. I am working with some checkboxes that always announce "unknown" before announcing the label. This occurs only in forms mode and only when using a mouse (which I understand some NVDA users do). Any clue as to what might be causing the issue?

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Re: Hearing "Unknown" when Using a Mouse

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

When using forms mode, it is expected that some sort of identifying text will be included with the item needing to be acted upon.  Therefore, some checkboxes might have a title saying it's the yes or the no check box.  If the said text isn't present, then NVDA has no way to know what the item is refering to, so will only state the actual item and not what it is supposed to be referring to.  This goes for all gui elements, not just checkboxes.

On 2/25/2019 10:10 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
I am a software developer trying to develop accessible software. I am working with some checkboxes that always announce "unknown" before announcing the label. This occurs only in forms mode and only when using a mouse (which I understand some NVDA users do). Any clue as to what might be causing the issue?

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Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

bestuiexperience
 

I mean I want to activate the link, not copy it.

Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

keyboard only users simply press enter on the specified link.  Assuming it's an actual link, that will do the trick.  If it's only something that looks like a link, but is actually something generated by javascript or some other means, then it may be necessary to use other methods to activate the link, such as NVDA-shift-enter, shift-enter, simulated mouse click, or routing the mouse and physiclaly pressing the buttons on the mouse.  Generally, one or more of those methods will click it properly if it's anything approaching a true link.  Of course, things get murky when trying to deal with license agreements that require scrolling to the bottom of the document, and so forth, but even those can be handeled with enough patience, frustration, and/or persistence.

On 2/25/2019 10:12 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
Sorry, I should have been clear. I am trying to understand how a keybaord only-NVDA user would select a link while in browse mode, and whether they would need to switch to forms mode.

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Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Gene
 

Are you using the mouse to move or using the keyboard?  I don't know what happens if you are using a mouse to move around the screen.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 9:06 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

I am a sighted user who may see a link highlighted while I am in browse mode, and attempt to select it b pressing the Enter key. However, that doesn't work. Must I always switch to forms mode before selecting the link?

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Gene
 

If you search using a browser or a PDF reader that supports browse mode, you have to use the NVDA find command.  The Windows program command won't work.  Since the thread is about the NVDA find command in browse mode, this needs to be clearly stated to avoid confusion. 
 
Gene

----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I wasn't talking about the NVDA specific search function, I was talking about the find function that is present in just about every windows program in existence.  A simple control-F will do your initial find, and after that, simply pressing F3 will repeat the find command from the current position of the regular cursor.  I almost never find it useful or necessary to use the NVDA specific find function.  As I said, I've only had to use it a handful of times. 

I always use the standard windows find function and it almost always works for me with little to no issues.  And, it's fewer keystrokes, so it saves me lots of time as well.


On 2/25/2019 9:39 PM, Gene wrote:
That isn't correct.  In NVDA, to search when in browse mode, the command is either insert and control. while holding those keys, type f to open the search dialog.  Repeat search is either insert and f3.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

The screen reader works just fine with the text of the web page.  I use control-f all the time to search for things, and it always works, except when the page is loaded with javascript that yanks the focus away from the main cursor.  Any normal web page works just fine with the ergular find command.  As I said before, I've only ever used the NVDA find command a couple times.  Of course, for the most part, it's not really necessary to search for things on the web page if you use your navigation commands to get from here to there in web browsers.

On 2/24/2019 1:05 PM, Gene wrote:
The screen-reader can't work with the search built into the browser.  The page that you are reading is in a buffer where the screen-reader reformats it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

So it's an option that the screen reader isn't able to deal with, is it right?
Sorry for asking too much as I am but it really got me curious.
Em 24/02/2019 14:30, Gene escreveu:
If you aren't using a screen-reader you use the actual search built into the browser itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

But, what's the point of the "search for" option built-in on the browser? How one would deal with this option not using a screen reader?
Em 24/02/2019 14:11, Gene escreveu:
You are searching using the buffer which screen-readers that use browse mode or the Virtual PC cursor use.  You aren't working directly with the page in browse mode or equivalent mode in a different screen-reader.  You must use the search command the screen-reader designates.
 
Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 10:09 AM
Subject: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Hi guys,
Anyone could tell me what's the difference between these two commands?
I'm asking because using the browser command to search, nothing happens after I hit enter. On the other hand if I use the NVDA command I'll able to search for what I'm wanting to.
P.S.: Using Firefox.

--

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook




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Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Sounds like you have browse and forms mode mixed up.  While in browse mode, pressing enter on a link (assuming it's a normal link, and not one that is generated with fancy javascript, and truly isn't a link, only something looking like one) will take you to the page/spot linked to.  In forms mode though, you can type into edit fields, but activating links can't be done with the enter key, because it's assumed the enter key is going into the edit box.

On 2/25/2019 10:06 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
I am a sighted user who may see a link highlighted while I am in browse mode, and attempt to select it b pressing the Enter key. However, that doesn't work. Must I always switch to forms mode before selecting the link?

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Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Another way to select the link if you can't use enter is to hit shift enter.



On 2/25/2019 7:12 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
Sorry, I should have been clear. I am trying to understand how a keybaord only-NVDA user would select a link while in browse mode, and whether they would need to switch to forms mode.

Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

 

What do you mean by "selecting the link"?    If you mean being able to copy it to paste it elsewhere, you need not select the link from beginning to end.  So long as you're sitting on the link (anywhere on the link) bringing up the context menu should give you a copy link option, which snags the whole thing without having to do a conventional text select.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

bestuiexperience
 

Sorry, I should have been clear. I am trying to understand how a keybaord only-NVDA user would select a link while in browse mode, and whether they would need to switch to forms mode.

Hearing "Unknown" when Using a Mouse

bestuiexperience
 

I am a software developer trying to develop accessible software. I am working with some checkboxes that always announce "unknown" before announcing the label. This occurs only in forms mode and only when using a mouse (which I understand some NVDA users do). Any clue as to what might be causing the issue?

Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Try clicking on the link using the mouse.



On 2/25/2019 7:06 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
I am a sighted user who may see a link highlighted while I am in browse mode, and attempt to select it b pressing the Enter key. However, that doesn't work. Must I always switch to forms mode before selecting the link?

How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

bestuiexperience
 

I am a sighted user who may see a link highlighted while I am in browse mode, and attempt to select it b pressing the Enter key. However, that doesn't work. Must I always switch to forms mode before selecting the link?

More add-on updates: StationPlaylist Studio, Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

 

Hi all,

 

Thought Add-on Updater was the only add-on update released today? No, there are two more (actually, three more):

 

  • StationPlaylist Studio 19.03/18.09.7-LTS: adds ability to reset add-on settings by pressing Control+NVDA+R three times quickly.
  • Windows 10 App Essentials 19.03: initial support for upcoming Windows 10 April 2019 Update (Version 1903), along with last minute fixes.

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph

Staying in Forms for Checkboxes

bestuiexperience
 

I sometimes find that when I enter a checkbox I automatically get thrown into browse mode. Since I am filling out a form I want to stay in forms mode because when in browse mode I sometimes will get focus completely thrown out of content.
So, 1) Is there a way to keep me in a given mode once I am in it 2) Is there a way to avoid being thrown out of the current element that I am in if I am not in forms mode (e.g., pressing the space bar will throw me out of focus occasionally when I am in forms mode)

How to Read an Entire Landmark

bestuiexperience
 

Is there a way to read out  the contents of an entire landmark without [NVDA] down arrow? I just want to hear the region that I am in and no more.