Date   
Re: new user.

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Robert,

I'm really glad to hear the material was useful for you!

Regarding learning every keystroke, it depends on your needs.  I tried to make the review topic at the end of each section give some recap of what was covered in that section.  As I edit the material, I am trying to make a more complete list of relevant keystrokes in those review topics.  Otherwise, having worked through the material, you should find that the User Guide is a lot easier to read when looking up specific topics.  The User Guide, and the Command Reference in the NVDA Help menu are really handy for looking up commands while working.

If you have any ideas on how to improve the material's usefulness to come back and review later, do please let me know as well.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 4:50 PM Robert Geoffroy <robert.geoffroy77@...> wrote:
About the Basic Training for NVDA module! I have just finished it. It's a great, efficient training, very simple!

Time and practice are most likely required to memorize the whole stuff. Advises?

Thank you very much for that good job!

All the best,

Robert


-----Message d'origine-----
De : nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] De la part de Quentin Christensen
Envoyé : mardi 26 février 2019 01:41
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] new user.

Hi Billy,

NVDA has many shortcuts, and different people use different ones day to day.  My suggestion would be to start with our Basic Training for NVDA module.  It's not free, but very comprehensive, and available in a variety of formats: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 4:45 AM Billy Inglis <william.inglis72@...> wrote:


        hi guys, New to NVDA and asking if snyone can provide a list of day to
        day NVDA shortcuts to make use of the screen reader.







--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/


www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Re: [nvda-addons] More add-on updates: StationPlaylist Studio, Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

Mohammed Al Shara
 

Hi.

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but using addon-updater, it gives an error on my home machine: "Error Cannot update ToolbarsExplorer - missing file or invalid file format"

anything I can try to troubleshoot this? I repeated the process a number of times with the same results.


On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 7:03 AM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi all,

 

Thought Add-on Updater was the only add-on update released today? No, there are two more (actually, three more):

 

  • StationPlaylist Studio 19.03/18.09.7-LTS: adds ability to reset add-on settings by pressing Control+NVDA+R three times quickly.
  • Windows 10 App Essentials 19.03: initial support for upcoming Windows 10 April 2019 Update (Version 1903), along with last minute fixes.

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph

Re: Golden Cursor question

Curtis Delzer
 

It never has using my email client, "Becky! mail," though as I say,
somehow both jfw and window-eyes do.
seems it may be simple? :) thanks
-----
Curtis Delzer, HS.
WB6HEF
San Bernardino, CA

Re: new user.

Robert Geoffroy
 

About the Basic Training for NVDA module! I have just finished it. It's a great, efficient training, very simple!

Time and practice are most likely required to memorize the whole stuff. Advises?

Thank you very much for that good job!

All the best,

Robert

-----Message d'origine-----
De : nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] De la part de Quentin Christensen
Envoyé : mardi 26 février 2019 01:41
À : nvda@nvda.groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda] new user.

Hi Billy,

NVDA has many shortcuts, and different people use different ones day to day. My suggestion would be to start with our Basic Training for NVDA module. It's not free, but very comprehensive, and available in a variety of formats: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 4:45 AM Billy Inglis <william.inglis72@...> wrote:


hi guys, New to NVDA and asking if snyone can provide a list of day to
day NVDA shortcuts to make use of the screen reader.







--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/


www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

 

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 10:51 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:
Control-F (which is the standard windows find function), works in browse mode.
I truly am not certain what you mean by "works."   If by that you mean finds the search string, sure.  If you also means gives any meaningful feedback when it does so or starts reading from the instance its sitting on if you start reading, then no.

I get silence, dead silence, using Chrome find in Chrome in browse mode and I've tried it on the Commands Quick Reference page and https://nirsoft.net/ since it's very text intensive.  Also just tried it on https://www.experts-exchange.com/articles/33470/Improve-website-response-times-easily-with-DNS-Settings.html with the same result.

I get nothing but dead silence as the search string is found, and found, and found and cannot make NVDA read from where the browser find has landed.

By contrast, if I use the NVDA find every time I land on the search string it's announced (along with a bit of text around it) and, if I commence reading, it goes from there and takes off.

Please tell me what I'm doing wrong.  I certainly wouldn't tell any of my students that there is an equivalence in behavior between browser find and NVDA find on every webpage on which I've done a comparison.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Amen, Travis. I couldn't have said it any better.



On 2/25/2019 7:51 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:

Oh for god's sake man, read the message you're replying to before asking questions that are already answered in the text you're replying to.

This is getting ridiculous.

Obviously, forms mode isn't going to let me search for anything, because forms mode is an input mode, not a look around the page and see what's there mode.

Control-F (which is the standard windows find function), works in browse mode.  If you're telling me that it doesn't work in browse mode, then I'm telling you that your understanding is incorrect.  Go ahead, open your favorite browser, and give it a try.  I think you'll find it works just fine.


On 2/25/2019 10:41 PM, Gene wrote:
Are you talking about when you have gone into forms mode or when you are working in browse mode.  See the manual if you are talking about browse mode.  The commands I've given are specified and control f doesn't work when in browse mode which, as I recall, is specified in the manual.  Blind people wouldn't use find in forms mode because they can't navigate around the page in that way so if it works, it is impractical.
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I think we're having a difference of terms here. 

The default mode for NVDA in a web browser is of course browse mode.  If you enter on a form element, it then switches into forms mode.  Switching out of this forms mode puts you back into browse mode.  Feel free to correcxt me if I'm wrong, but that is my experience, and also what the documentation claims, so with that said.

I will repeat my assertion that control-F works just fine when I'm in Chrome, and I want to find something on the page.  I simply hit control-F, type in what I'm looking for, and my cursor is moved to the point where that text appears.  If I want to search for the same text again, I simply press F3, and I'm moved to the next occurrence of the text.  I need not use NVDA specific commands to get this behavior, the standard windows find command works just fine, and always has for me.

If you're talking about something else, then please enlighten me, because I don't know of any other way to look at screen content.

On 2/25/2019 10:20 PM, Gene wrote:
If you search using a browser or a PDF reader that supports browse mode, you have to use the NVDA find command.  The Windows program command won't work.  Since the thread is about the NVDA find command in browse mode, this needs to be clearly stated to avoid confusion. 
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I wasn't talking about the NVDA specific search function, I was talking about the find function that is present in just about every windows program in existence.  A simple control-F will do your initial find, and after that, simply pressing F3 will repeat the find command from the current position of the regular cursor.  I almost never find it useful or necessary to use the NVDA specific find function.  As I said, I've only had to use it a handful of times. 

I always use the standard windows find function and it almost always works for me with little to no issues.  And, it's fewer keystrokes, so it saves me lots of time as well.


On 2/25/2019 9:39 PM, Gene wrote:
That isn't correct.  In NVDA, to search when in browse mode, the command is either insert and control. while holding those keys, type f to open the search dialog.  Repeat search is either insert and f3.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

The screen reader works just fine with the text of the web page.  I use control-f all the time to search for things, and it always works, except when the page is loaded with javascript that yanks the focus away from the main cursor.  Any normal web page works just fine with the ergular find command.  As I said before, I've only ever used the NVDA find command a couple times.  Of course, for the most part, it's not really necessary to search for things on the web page if you use your navigation commands to get from here to there in web browsers.

On 2/24/2019 1:05 PM, Gene wrote:
The screen-reader can't work with the search built into the browser.  The page that you are reading is in a buffer where the screen-reader reformats it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

So it's an option that the screen reader isn't able to deal with, is it right?
Sorry for asking too much as I am but it really got me curious.
Em 24/02/2019 14:30, Gene escreveu:
If you aren't using a screen-reader you use the actual search built into the browser itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

But, what's the point of the "search for" option built-in on the browser? How one would deal with this option not using a screen reader?
Em 24/02/2019 14:11, Gene escreveu:
You are searching using the buffer which screen-readers that use browse mode or the Virtual PC cursor use.  You aren't working directly with the page in browse mode or equivalent mode in a different screen-reader.  You must use the search command the screen-reader designates.
 
Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 10:09 AM
Subject: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Hi guys,
Anyone could tell me what's the difference between these two commands?
I'm asking because using the browser command to search, nothing happens after I hit enter. On the other hand if I use the NVDA command I'll able to search for what I'm wanting to.
P.S.: Using Firefox.

--

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook




Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Status 2019.1

 

hi quentin.
can you please send me whats new of 2019.1?
as i use windows xp, i cant download and test snapshots!
thanks as always for your helps, God bless you!

On 2/25/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
Hi Artin,

It's coming along. We've been working on lots of exciting new things for
2019 and for various reasons, the release has been pushed back a little.
Apologies for the delay, we'd rather bring you a quality product a little
late, than ship an unfinished product just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
If you are interested in finding and trying out what is new, you can
download the latest alpha release from
https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/ - you can run that without
installing it if you just want to test it out. If you go to the Help menu
and What's new, you'll see all the changes from 2018.4.1 to try out.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 8:49 PM Artin Dekker via Groups.Io <accounts=
artindekker.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi list,

Does anyone know the status of NVDA 2019.1? I saw that there is not even
a 2019.1 beta at this time.

Sincerely,
Artin Dekker




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Oh for god's sake man, read the message you're replying to before asking questions that are already answered in the text you're replying to.

This is getting ridiculous.

Obviously, forms mode isn't going to let me search for anything, because forms mode is an input mode, not a look around the page and see what's there mode.

Control-F (which is the standard windows find function), works in browse mode.  If you're telling me that it doesn't work in browse mode, then I'm telling you that your understanding is incorrect.  Go ahead, open your favorite browser, and give it a try.  I think you'll find it works just fine.


On 2/25/2019 10:41 PM, Gene wrote:
Are you talking about when you have gone into forms mode or when you are working in browse mode.  See the manual if you are talking about browse mode.  The commands I've given are specified and control f doesn't work when in browse mode which, as I recall, is specified in the manual.  Blind people wouldn't use find in forms mode because they can't navigate around the page in that way so if it works, it is impractical.
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I think we're having a difference of terms here. 

The default mode for NVDA in a web browser is of course browse mode.  If you enter on a form element, it then switches into forms mode.  Switching out of this forms mode puts you back into browse mode.  Feel free to correcxt me if I'm wrong, but that is my experience, and also what the documentation claims, so with that said.

I will repeat my assertion that control-F works just fine when I'm in Chrome, and I want to find something on the page.  I simply hit control-F, type in what I'm looking for, and my cursor is moved to the point where that text appears.  If I want to search for the same text again, I simply press F3, and I'm moved to the next occurrence of the text.  I need not use NVDA specific commands to get this behavior, the standard windows find command works just fine, and always has for me.

If you're talking about something else, then please enlighten me, because I don't know of any other way to look at screen content.

On 2/25/2019 10:20 PM, Gene wrote:
If you search using a browser or a PDF reader that supports browse mode, you have to use the NVDA find command.  The Windows program command won't work.  Since the thread is about the NVDA find command in browse mode, this needs to be clearly stated to avoid confusion. 
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I wasn't talking about the NVDA specific search function, I was talking about the find function that is present in just about every windows program in existence.  A simple control-F will do your initial find, and after that, simply pressing F3 will repeat the find command from the current position of the regular cursor.  I almost never find it useful or necessary to use the NVDA specific find function.  As I said, I've only had to use it a handful of times. 

I always use the standard windows find function and it almost always works for me with little to no issues.  And, it's fewer keystrokes, so it saves me lots of time as well.


On 2/25/2019 9:39 PM, Gene wrote:
That isn't correct.  In NVDA, to search when in browse mode, the command is either insert and control. while holding those keys, type f to open the search dialog.  Repeat search is either insert and f3.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

The screen reader works just fine with the text of the web page.  I use control-f all the time to search for things, and it always works, except when the page is loaded with javascript that yanks the focus away from the main cursor.  Any normal web page works just fine with the ergular find command.  As I said before, I've only ever used the NVDA find command a couple times.  Of course, for the most part, it's not really necessary to search for things on the web page if you use your navigation commands to get from here to there in web browsers.

On 2/24/2019 1:05 PM, Gene wrote:
The screen-reader can't work with the search built into the browser.  The page that you are reading is in a buffer where the screen-reader reformats it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

So it's an option that the screen reader isn't able to deal with, is it right?
Sorry for asking too much as I am but it really got me curious.
Em 24/02/2019 14:30, Gene escreveu:
If you aren't using a screen-reader you use the actual search built into the browser itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

But, what's the point of the "search for" option built-in on the browser? How one would deal with this option not using a screen reader?
Em 24/02/2019 14:11, Gene escreveu:
You are searching using the buffer which screen-readers that use browse mode or the Virtual PC cursor use.  You aren't working directly with the page in browse mode or equivalent mode in a different screen-reader.  You must use the search command the screen-reader designates.
 
Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 10:09 AM
Subject: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Hi guys,
Anyone could tell me what's the difference between these two commands?
I'm asking because using the browser command to search, nothing happens after I hit enter. On the other hand if I use the NVDA command I'll able to search for what I'm wanting to.
P.S.: Using Firefox.

--

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook




Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

 

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 10:44 PM, Gene wrote:
It is important that people know that NVDA has its own find commands while in browse mode.  Over the years, I've seen many times when new NVDA users have asked how to search and have said that control f doesn't work.
And even I may be conflating JAWS having worked when NVDA does not.

I even tell JAWS users to play it safe and use the screen reader find.   Over time I have observed that consistent use of screen reader find when using a screen reader, any screen reader, saves a lot of consternation due to not finding things that one knows "must be there" that actually are there, and get found with screen reader find.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Re: New Moderator #adminnotice

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

If it's Brian V, I think he'll make a great moderator.



On 2/25/2019 11:29 AM, Nimer Jaber wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...>
Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 10:52
Subject: New Moderator #adminnotice
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Group Moderators <nvda+owner@nvda.groups.io>


Hello everyone,

This is your friendly list owner writing to thank Brian for stepping up to fill the moderation position. He is now moderator of this list. I look forward to working with Brian to hopefully allow this list to continue to run well. Also, thank you for everyone who has applied as well. I will keep you in mind should the need arrise for another moderator.

Thanks.

--
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber

Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
some information about the email you have just read and all
attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (658-0358) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I was using Jaws at that time.



On 2/25/2019 7:45 PM, Gene wrote:
Rosemary
 
Were you using JAWS or NVDA at that time.  JAWS has made control f the find command in the virtual pc cursor.  But you aren't using the browser's find command.  JAWS uses control f for its own virtual PC cursor find command and JAWS intercepts control f and keeps it from reaching the browser.
 
It is important that people know that NVDA has its own find commands while in browse mode.  Over the years, I've seen many times when new NVDA users have asked how to search and have said that control f doesn't work.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Are you talking about when you have gone into forms mode or when you are working in browse mode.  See the manual if you are talking about browse mode.  The commands I've given are specified and control f doesn't work when in browse mode which, as I recall, is specified in the manual.  Blind people wouldn't use find in forms mode because they can't navigate around the page in that way so if it works, it is impractical.
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I think we're having a difference of terms here. 

The default mode for NVDA in a web browser is of course browse mode.  If you enter on a form element, it then switches into forms mode.  Switching out of this forms mode puts you back into browse mode.  Feel free to correcxt me if I'm wrong, but that is my experience, and also what the documentation claims, so with that said.

I will repeat my assertion that control-F works just fine when I'm in Chrome, and I want to find something on the page.  I simply hit control-F, type in what I'm looking for, and my cursor is moved to the point where that text appears.  If I want to search for the same text again, I simply press F3, and I'm moved to the next occurrence of the text.  I need not use NVDA specific commands to get this behavior, the standard windows find command works just fine, and always has for me.

If you're talking about something else, then please enlighten me, because I don't know of any other way to look at screen content.

On 2/25/2019 10:20 PM, Gene wrote:
If you search using a browser or a PDF reader that supports browse mode, you have to use the NVDA find command.  The Windows program command won't work.  Since the thread is about the NVDA find command in browse mode, this needs to be clearly stated to avoid confusion. 
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I wasn't talking about the NVDA specific search function, I was talking about the find function that is present in just about every windows program in existence.  A simple control-F will do your initial find, and after that, simply pressing F3 will repeat the find command from the current position of the regular cursor.  I almost never find it useful or necessary to use the NVDA specific find function.  As I said, I've only had to use it a handful of times. 

I always use the standard windows find function and it almost always works for me with little to no issues.  And, it's fewer keystrokes, so it saves me lots of time as well.


On 2/25/2019 9:39 PM, Gene wrote:
That isn't correct.  In NVDA, to search when in browse mode, the command is either insert and control. while holding those keys, type f to open the search dialog.  Repeat search is either insert and f3.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

The screen reader works just fine with the text of the web page.  I use control-f all the time to search for things, and it always works, except when the page is loaded with javascript that yanks the focus away from the main cursor.  Any normal web page works just fine with the ergular find command.  As I said before, I've only ever used the NVDA find command a couple times.  Of course, for the most part, it's not really necessary to search for things on the web page if you use your navigation commands to get from here to there in web browsers.

On 2/24/2019 1:05 PM, Gene wrote:
The screen-reader can't work with the search built into the browser.  The page that you are reading is in a buffer where the screen-reader reformats it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

So it's an option that the screen reader isn't able to deal with, is it right?
Sorry for asking too much as I am but it really got me curious.
Em 24/02/2019 14:30, Gene escreveu:
If you aren't using a screen-reader you use the actual search built into the browser itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

But, what's the point of the "search for" option built-in on the browser? How one would deal with this option not using a screen reader?
Em 24/02/2019 14:11, Gene escreveu:
You are searching using the buffer which screen-readers that use browse mode or the Virtual PC cursor use.  You aren't working directly with the page in browse mode or equivalent mode in a different screen-reader.  You must use the search command the screen-reader designates.
 
Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 10:09 AM
Subject: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Hi guys,
Anyone could tell me what's the difference between these two commands?
I'm asking because using the browser command to search, nothing happens after I hit enter. On the other hand if I use the NVDA command I'll able to search for what I'm wanting to.
P.S.: Using Firefox.

--

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook




Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Gene
 

Rosemary
 
Were you using JAWS or NVDA at that time.  JAWS has made control f the find command in the virtual pc cursor.  But you aren't using the browser's find command.  JAWS uses control f for its own virtual PC cursor find command and JAWS intercepts control f and keeps it from reaching the browser.
 
It is important that people know that NVDA has its own find commands while in browse mode.  Over the years, I've seen many times when new NVDA users have asked how to search and have said that control f doesn't work.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Are you talking about when you have gone into forms mode or when you are working in browse mode.  See the manual if you are talking about browse mode.  The commands I've given are specified and control f doesn't work when in browse mode which, as I recall, is specified in the manual.  Blind people wouldn't use find in forms mode because they can't navigate around the page in that way so if it works, it is impractical.
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I think we're having a difference of terms here. 

The default mode for NVDA in a web browser is of course browse mode.  If you enter on a form element, it then switches into forms mode.  Switching out of this forms mode puts you back into browse mode.  Feel free to correcxt me if I'm wrong, but that is my experience, and also what the documentation claims, so with that said.

I will repeat my assertion that control-F works just fine when I'm in Chrome, and I want to find something on the page.  I simply hit control-F, type in what I'm looking for, and my cursor is moved to the point where that text appears.  If I want to search for the same text again, I simply press F3, and I'm moved to the next occurrence of the text.  I need not use NVDA specific commands to get this behavior, the standard windows find command works just fine, and always has for me.

If you're talking about something else, then please enlighten me, because I don't know of any other way to look at screen content.

On 2/25/2019 10:20 PM, Gene wrote:
If you search using a browser or a PDF reader that supports browse mode, you have to use the NVDA find command.  The Windows program command won't work.  Since the thread is about the NVDA find command in browse mode, this needs to be clearly stated to avoid confusion. 
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I wasn't talking about the NVDA specific search function, I was talking about the find function that is present in just about every windows program in existence.  A simple control-F will do your initial find, and after that, simply pressing F3 will repeat the find command from the current position of the regular cursor.  I almost never find it useful or necessary to use the NVDA specific find function.  As I said, I've only had to use it a handful of times. 

I always use the standard windows find function and it almost always works for me with little to no issues.  And, it's fewer keystrokes, so it saves me lots of time as well.


On 2/25/2019 9:39 PM, Gene wrote:
That isn't correct.  In NVDA, to search when in browse mode, the command is either insert and control. while holding those keys, type f to open the search dialog.  Repeat search is either insert and f3.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

The screen reader works just fine with the text of the web page.  I use control-f all the time to search for things, and it always works, except when the page is loaded with javascript that yanks the focus away from the main cursor.  Any normal web page works just fine with the ergular find command.  As I said before, I've only ever used the NVDA find command a couple times.  Of course, for the most part, it's not really necessary to search for things on the web page if you use your navigation commands to get from here to there in web browsers.

On 2/24/2019 1:05 PM, Gene wrote:
The screen-reader can't work with the search built into the browser.  The page that you are reading is in a buffer where the screen-reader reformats it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

So it's an option that the screen reader isn't able to deal with, is it right?
Sorry for asking too much as I am but it really got me curious.
Em 24/02/2019 14:30, Gene escreveu:
If you aren't using a screen-reader you use the actual search built into the browser itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

But, what's the point of the "search for" option built-in on the browser? How one would deal with this option not using a screen reader?
Em 24/02/2019 14:11, Gene escreveu:
You are searching using the buffer which screen-readers that use browse mode or the Virtual PC cursor use.  You aren't working directly with the page in browse mode or equivalent mode in a different screen-reader.  You must use the search command the screen-reader designates.
 
Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 10:09 AM
Subject: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Hi guys,
Anyone could tell me what's the difference between these two commands?
I'm asking because using the browser command to search, nothing happens after I hit enter. On the other hand if I use the NVDA command I'll able to search for what I'm wanting to.
P.S.: Using Firefox.

--

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook




Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

 

Travis and Gene,

         This is actually very complicated, and both of you are correct and incorrect, depending on the context.

          Travis, once NVDA is up bring up the NVDA menu and from there the Commands Quick Reference, which opens in your default web browser, which in my case is Chrome.  Now try using straight CTRL+F to find anything and have NVDA speak it.  I certainly can't get it to work.  On that page I have to use NVDA find to get the behavior I'd expect as far as the screen reader giving me feedback, otherwise I get NADA.

          I have had times where regular find works fine, but they are sporadic and inconsistent, thus I always encourage my clients (whether using JAWS or NVDA) to use the screen reader find.

          If I had to come down on "best practice" here it is to follow Gene's advice and use a screen reader find if you want consistent feedback from the screen reader in regard to what it's found and whether what it's found is part of a control of some sort or just in the flow of text on a page.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Gene
 

Are you talking about when you have gone into forms mode or when you are working in browse mode.  See the manual if you are talking about browse mode.  The commands I've given are specified and control f doesn't work when in browse mode which, as I recall, is specified in the manual.  Blind people wouldn't use find in forms mode because they can't navigate around the page in that way so if it works, it is impractical.
 
Gene

----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I think we're having a difference of terms here. 

The default mode for NVDA in a web browser is of course browse mode.  If you enter on a form element, it then switches into forms mode.  Switching out of this forms mode puts you back into browse mode.  Feel free to correcxt me if I'm wrong, but that is my experience, and also what the documentation claims, so with that said.

I will repeat my assertion that control-F works just fine when I'm in Chrome, and I want to find something on the page.  I simply hit control-F, type in what I'm looking for, and my cursor is moved to the point where that text appears.  If I want to search for the same text again, I simply press F3, and I'm moved to the next occurrence of the text.  I need not use NVDA specific commands to get this behavior, the standard windows find command works just fine, and always has for me.

If you're talking about something else, then please enlighten me, because I don't know of any other way to look at screen content.

On 2/25/2019 10:20 PM, Gene wrote:
If you search using a browser or a PDF reader that supports browse mode, you have to use the NVDA find command.  The Windows program command won't work.  Since the thread is about the NVDA find command in browse mode, this needs to be clearly stated to avoid confusion. 
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I wasn't talking about the NVDA specific search function, I was talking about the find function that is present in just about every windows program in existence.  A simple control-F will do your initial find, and after that, simply pressing F3 will repeat the find command from the current position of the regular cursor.  I almost never find it useful or necessary to use the NVDA specific find function.  As I said, I've only had to use it a handful of times. 

I always use the standard windows find function and it almost always works for me with little to no issues.  And, it's fewer keystrokes, so it saves me lots of time as well.


On 2/25/2019 9:39 PM, Gene wrote:
That isn't correct.  In NVDA, to search when in browse mode, the command is either insert and control. while holding those keys, type f to open the search dialog.  Repeat search is either insert and f3.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

The screen reader works just fine with the text of the web page.  I use control-f all the time to search for things, and it always works, except when the page is loaded with javascript that yanks the focus away from the main cursor.  Any normal web page works just fine with the ergular find command.  As I said before, I've only ever used the NVDA find command a couple times.  Of course, for the most part, it's not really necessary to search for things on the web page if you use your navigation commands to get from here to there in web browsers.

On 2/24/2019 1:05 PM, Gene wrote:
The screen-reader can't work with the search built into the browser.  The page that you are reading is in a buffer where the screen-reader reformats it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

So it's an option that the screen reader isn't able to deal with, is it right?
Sorry for asking too much as I am but it really got me curious.
Em 24/02/2019 14:30, Gene escreveu:
If you aren't using a screen-reader you use the actual search built into the browser itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

But, what's the point of the "search for" option built-in on the browser? How one would deal with this option not using a screen reader?
Em 24/02/2019 14:11, Gene escreveu:
You are searching using the buffer which screen-readers that use browse mode or the Virtual PC cursor use.  You aren't working directly with the page in browse mode or equivalent mode in a different screen-reader.  You must use the search command the screen-reader designates.
 
Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 10:09 AM
Subject: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Hi guys,
Anyone could tell me what's the difference between these two commands?
I'm asking because using the browser command to search, nothing happens after I hit enter. On the other hand if I use the NVDA command I'll able to search for what I'm wanting to.
P.S.: Using Firefox.

--

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook




Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Travis,


When I shopped on the Albertsons site years ago, I used to use control F to find a link for what I wanted. For instance, I wanted to buy chicken pot pies so I hit control F and typed "pot pies" without the quotes. I then hit escape and the link for pot pies came up. All I had to do was hit enter on it and I could browse through the pot pies to find the chicken ones.


Rosemarie



On 2/25/2019 7:31 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:

I think we're having a difference of terms here. 

The default mode for NVDA in a web browser is of course browse mode.  If you enter on a form element, it then switches into forms mode.  Switching out of this forms mode puts you back into browse mode.  Feel free to correcxt me if I'm wrong, but that is my experience, and also what the documentation claims, so with that said.

I will repeat my assertion that control-F works just fine when I'm in Chrome, and I want to find something on the page.  I simply hit control-F, type in what I'm looking for, and my cursor is moved to the point where that text appears.  If I want to search for the same text again, I simply press F3, and I'm moved to the next occurrence of the text.  I need not use NVDA specific commands to get this behavior, the standard windows find command works just fine, and always has for me.

If you're talking about something else, then please enlighten me, because I don't know of any other way to look at screen content.

On 2/25/2019 10:20 PM, Gene wrote:
If you search using a browser or a PDF reader that supports browse mode, you have to use the NVDA find command.  The Windows program command won't work.  Since the thread is about the NVDA find command in browse mode, this needs to be clearly stated to avoid confusion. 
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I wasn't talking about the NVDA specific search function, I was talking about the find function that is present in just about every windows program in existence.  A simple control-F will do your initial find, and after that, simply pressing F3 will repeat the find command from the current position of the regular cursor.  I almost never find it useful or necessary to use the NVDA specific find function.  As I said, I've only had to use it a handful of times. 

I always use the standard windows find function and it almost always works for me with little to no issues.  And, it's fewer keystrokes, so it saves me lots of time as well.


On 2/25/2019 9:39 PM, Gene wrote:
That isn't correct.  In NVDA, to search when in browse mode, the command is either insert and control. while holding those keys, type f to open the search dialog.  Repeat search is either insert and f3.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

The screen reader works just fine with the text of the web page.  I use control-f all the time to search for things, and it always works, except when the page is loaded with javascript that yanks the focus away from the main cursor.  Any normal web page works just fine with the ergular find command.  As I said before, I've only ever used the NVDA find command a couple times.  Of course, for the most part, it's not really necessary to search for things on the web page if you use your navigation commands to get from here to there in web browsers.

On 2/24/2019 1:05 PM, Gene wrote:
The screen-reader can't work with the search built into the browser.  The page that you are reading is in a buffer where the screen-reader reformats it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

So it's an option that the screen reader isn't able to deal with, is it right?
Sorry for asking too much as I am but it really got me curious.
Em 24/02/2019 14:30, Gene escreveu:
If you aren't using a screen-reader you use the actual search built into the browser itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

But, what's the point of the "search for" option built-in on the browser? How one would deal with this option not using a screen reader?
Em 24/02/2019 14:11, Gene escreveu:
You are searching using the buffer which screen-readers that use browse mode or the Virtual PC cursor use.  You aren't working directly with the page in browse mode or equivalent mode in a different screen-reader.  You must use the search command the screen-reader designates.
 
Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 10:09 AM
Subject: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Hi guys,
Anyone could tell me what's the difference between these two commands?
I'm asking because using the browser command to search, nothing happens after I hit enter. On the other hand if I use the NVDA command I'll able to search for what I'm wanting to.
P.S.: Using Firefox.

--

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook




Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Hearing "Unknown" when Using a Mouse

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Yes, I know, and my message below applies to all such items, as I said.  I've been developing web sites myself since 1996, so I am well versed in web content components, and I dis state in the message that the label applies to other gui elements as well, which would include radio buttons, checkboxes, edit boxes, submit buttons, and the like.


On 2/25/2019 10:27 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Some forms have radio buttons which allow you to make a choice whenselecting something. There are also combo boxes.



On 2/25/2019 7:25 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:

When using forms mode, it is expected that some sort of identifying text will be included with the item needing to be acted upon.  Therefore, some checkboxes might have a title saying it's the yes or the no check box.  If the said text isn't present, then NVDA has no way to know what the item is refering to, so will only state the actual item and not what it is supposed to be referring to.  This goes for all gui elements, not just checkboxes.

On 2/25/2019 10:10 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
I am a software developer trying to develop accessible software. I am working with some checkboxes that always announce "unknown" before announcing the label. This occurs only in forms mode and only when using a mouse (which I understand some NVDA users do). Any clue as to what might be causing the issue?

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

I think we're having a difference of terms here. 

The default mode for NVDA in a web browser is of course browse mode.  If you enter on a form element, it then switches into forms mode.  Switching out of this forms mode puts you back into browse mode.  Feel free to correcxt me if I'm wrong, but that is my experience, and also what the documentation claims, so with that said.

I will repeat my assertion that control-F works just fine when I'm in Chrome, and I want to find something on the page.  I simply hit control-F, type in what I'm looking for, and my cursor is moved to the point where that text appears.  If I want to search for the same text again, I simply press F3, and I'm moved to the next occurrence of the text.  I need not use NVDA specific commands to get this behavior, the standard windows find command works just fine, and always has for me.

If you're talking about something else, then please enlighten me, because I don't know of any other way to look at screen content.

On 2/25/2019 10:20 PM, Gene wrote:
If you search using a browser or a PDF reader that supports browse mode, you have to use the NVDA find command.  The Windows program command won't work.  Since the thread is about the NVDA find command in browse mode, this needs to be clearly stated to avoid confusion. 
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

I wasn't talking about the NVDA specific search function, I was talking about the find function that is present in just about every windows program in existence.  A simple control-F will do your initial find, and after that, simply pressing F3 will repeat the find command from the current position of the regular cursor.  I almost never find it useful or necessary to use the NVDA specific find function.  As I said, I've only had to use it a handful of times. 

I always use the standard windows find function and it almost always works for me with little to no issues.  And, it's fewer keystrokes, so it saves me lots of time as well.


On 2/25/2019 9:39 PM, Gene wrote:
That isn't correct.  In NVDA, to search when in browse mode, the command is either insert and control. while holding those keys, type f to open the search dialog.  Repeat search is either insert and f3.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

The screen reader works just fine with the text of the web page.  I use control-f all the time to search for things, and it always works, except when the page is loaded with javascript that yanks the focus away from the main cursor.  Any normal web page works just fine with the ergular find command.  As I said before, I've only ever used the NVDA find command a couple times.  Of course, for the most part, it's not really necessary to search for things on the web page if you use your navigation commands to get from here to there in web browsers.

On 2/24/2019 1:05 PM, Gene wrote:
The screen-reader can't work with the search built into the browser.  The page that you are reading is in a buffer where the screen-reader reformats it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

So it's an option that the screen reader isn't able to deal with, is it right?
Sorry for asking too much as I am but it really got me curious.
Em 24/02/2019 14:30, Gene escreveu:
If you aren't using a screen-reader you use the actual search built into the browser itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

But, what's the point of the "search for" option built-in on the browser? How one would deal with this option not using a screen reader?
Em 24/02/2019 14:11, Gene escreveu:
You are searching using the buffer which screen-readers that use browse mode or the Virtual PC cursor use.  You aren't working directly with the page in browse mode or equivalent mode in a different screen-reader.  You must use the search command the screen-reader designates.
 
Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 10:09 AM
Subject: [nvda] Differences between using the NVDA and the browser commands search on a webpage

Hi guys,
Anyone could tell me what's the difference between these two commands?
I'm asking because using the browser command to search, nothing happens after I hit enter. On the other hand if I use the NVDA command I'll able to search for what I'm wanting to.
P.S.: Using Firefox.

--

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow or add me on Facebook




Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I know shift enter opens a link in a new window but the original poster wasn't clear about what he wanted to do.



On 2/25/2019 7:28 PM, Gene wrote:
Shift enter opens the link in a new Window.  It may allow you to follow a link if a popup blocker is keeping it from functioning because the link is intended to open a new window. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Another way to select the link if you can't use enter is to hit shift enter.



On 2/25/2019 7:12 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
Sorry, I should have been clear. I am trying to understand how a keybaord only-NVDA user would select a link while in browse mode, and whether they would need to switch to forms mode.

Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

 

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 10:25 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
I mean I want to activate the link, not copy it.
If you're in browse mode, and have focus on a link, then spacebar or enter (often either one, but I have had the rare occasion where either one or the other is the only one that works) activates the link.

By the way, I'm a fully sighted tutor for assistive technology.  If you're using NVDA for testing and are sighted I cannot implore you strongly enough to go to:  https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html, then promptly download and install the Focus Highlight Add-On.  It allows those of us who see to be directly cued as to NVDA's current state with regard to the item that currently has focus.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Re: How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Gene
 

Shift enter opens the link in a new Window.  It may allow you to follow a link if a popup blocker is keeping it from functioning because the link is intended to open a new window. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to Select a Link While n Browse Mode

Another way to select the link if you can't use enter is to hit shift enter.



On 2/25/2019 7:12 PM, bestuiexperience wrote:
Sorry, I should have been clear. I am trying to understand how a keybaord only-NVDA user would select a link while in browse mode, and whether they would need to switch to forms mode.