Date   
Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

Quentin Christensen
 

I'm happy to explore the idea of hints or more help for new users if those with ideas on that want to contact me.

The open source being insecure argument is being disproved even more with every passing week.  Did you know 20% of code created for US government organisations now has to be open source?  Or that if you use a Windows computer, it includes open source code?  I've recently updated our Corporate and Government page to include more info on that: https://www.nvaccess.org/corporate-government/#OpenSource

Re the idea that NVDA is inferior because of the price, perhaps expressing it differently would help?  EG it is not that NVDA costs less to make than other programs, or is made with less care and attention.  Rather, that in creating a product which actually meets the needs of its audience, we have looked at not only the technical requirements of the software itself, but also the fact that the majority of blind people around the world have less access to education, employment and income, therefore, what good is a solution which meets the technical need but is inaccessible due to the prohibitive financial burden unnecessarily placed on end users?  NV Access have pursued a funding model which means we get the majority of our income from corporations like Microsoft, Mozilla, Google, etc, rather than the end user.  Therefore, NVDA is the most ethical screen reader available.




On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 9:17 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 04:57 PM, Devin Prater wrote:
but they understand the iPhone quickly, and JAWS too
I disagree with this statement, particularly with regard to JAWS.  I've been tutoring for years for JAWS, and I have yet to have a client understand it quickly, and that's even for folks who were very sophisticated Windows users prior to losing their site.

I had one client (and, yes, I know that one is not a valid sample) who could use the iPhone very proficiently, including VoiceOver, but who could never master the rotor (and not secondary to any motor issues).

After decades in IT one of the claims, about anything technology-related, that instantly makes me cringe is, "It's intuitive."   There is no such thing as a very highly featured system that is intuitive in any meaningful sense of that word.   Some are easier than others to get the hang of the basics, but all require intensive practice to master even the subset of non-basic commands a given user might use.   Microsoft Word is the perfect example of that.  It's dirt simple to create a dirt simple document, but when you start going beyond that, things get complicated and you can end up "in the weeds" with unbelievable speed if you try to guess what you need to do.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Re: Vocalizer Expressive Driver

Rui Fontes
 

Hello!


Download the new driver from:

https://www.tiflotecnia.net/Instal/vocalizer_expressive_driver-3.1.1.nvda-addon


If necessary, download the voices add-on from:

https://vocalizer-nvda.com


Best regards,

Customer support

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 22:55 de 23/03/2020, Andrea Sherry escreveu:

Has ceased to function under the latest NVDA beta.
Has anyone else had this experience?
Andrea

Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

Gene
 

NVDA isn’t as user definable as JAWS.  It meets the needs of a lot of people but there are ways JAWS can be tailored, without scripts, using frames, that can meet the needs of many people in ways NVDA can’t, by allowing those without scripting knowledge to customize  it much more easily and conveniently than waiting for scripts from someone.  Years ago, I was helping someone who needed to sign into a virtual private network, have certain specific thihngs read, and have certain things read or repeated with specific commands.  Using frames, I was able to do these things.  I don’t have scripting knowledge and I would think many rehabilitation workers know how to work with frames who don’t know how to script.  And some or perhaps many users do as well.  Until NVDA is user definable in the same way, it will be at a disadvantage in arenas where customization is necessary that doesn’t require scripts.
 
There is no one best or one right screen-reader.  If NVDA is to be the industry standard, it must be more user definable. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today
 
At the AT department I work for, we teach NVDA. We don’t put $1000 licenses, or even $100 ones, on our clients. Really, I think all that NVDA needs now is good hints, like JAWS has “tutor messages.” I know, there is an add-on, where one has to remember to press a keyboard command to open a help message, but if we have help messages built in, and extendable by other addons to other apps, configurable right from the welcome dialog, and turned off for people updating NVDA, NVDA will be even easier to learn. My students have me to teach them, but not all blind people are so fortunate.
 
Let’s say that NVDA does become the industry standard. What then? There are professionals who just dump equipment on blind people’s doorstep and leave it for blind people to learn. There are blind people who are told to just go buy a PC and have sighted help to slap NVDA on it, with the blind person knowing little to nothing about Windows. Sure, blind people may always need training, but they understand the iPhone quickly, and JAWS too. Can’t we emulate them at least as far as giving good beginner hints on using controls, or even basic tips for using Windows, using Tab, Arrows, Windows key, and maybe a link to Windows keyboard commands? Narrator does some of this, and I could see it, after its web navigation is tightened up, gaining lots of usage for it.

On Mar 23, 2020, at 3:32 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
 
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 04:24 PM, Jesse Farquharson wrote:
an opensource program, means that you can have someone who is qualified come in to externally audit the software and say, "yes, this program is absolutely safe," if you are inclined to do so.
Yep, and not just for NVDA.  It seems that slowly, but surely, many IT professionals are getting "the powers that be" to recognize this.  There is far less resistance to open source software in the business market than there once was.  But since that resistance started out as absolute, it's still nowhere close to the degree of acceptance that should prevail.

That being said, there are many ways that current security suites use to analyze closed source code to see if it's been compromised.  There is good reason, very good reason, to believe that commercial software makers are not going to rob their customers (of passwords or cash, anyway - data is another matter altogether). 
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna


 

 
 

Re: Can't install NVDA 2020 beta I

Lino Morales
 

OK I was successful in downloading nVDA and its running fine now. Thanks Quenton.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

                                                                                                               

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 7:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can't install NVDA 2020 beta I

 

Others have installed it, so I think the file available from  https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2020-1beta1-available-for-testing/ should be ok, but maybe it didn't download properly?

 

If it's running though (as in it started up without an error about a corrupt file etc) how far is it getting ? Did it play the intro music, show the license agreement, let you start installing it?

 

If you are installing it and have go to the point where it's installing but doesn't seem to finish, have you acknowledged the UAC dialog - the Windows dialog which warns you the program is about to make changes to your computer (the one you get any time you install anything) - occasionally that pops up behind every other window rather than in front of them, but if you don't acknowledge it, you can't install the program.

 

Are you running any third party anti-virus program (not Windows defender)?  If so, try disabling it while installing NVDA and then reenabling it.

 

Failing all that, if you look in the %temp% folder, there should be an nvda.log file (for the currently running, or most recently running copy of NVDA) and an nvda-old.log file (for the instance before that).  If you could send me whichever one of those was written for the install attempt, I can see if there's anything else there.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 5:01 AM Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Hi all. Can’t install NVDA 2020 beta I. Just beeps away. Running WIN 10 current Insider build. I don’t know if this a bad file that was uploaded or not.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

                                                                                                               

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 

Re: Can't install NVDA 2020 beta I

Lino Morales
 

Hi Quinton. I’ve done all this. I’ll attempt to install again with a fresh download. I got no error. Thanks.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

                                                                                                               

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 7:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can't install NVDA 2020 beta I

 

Others have installed it, so I think the file available from  https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2020-1beta1-available-for-testing/ should be ok, but maybe it didn't download properly?

 

If it's running though (as in it started up without an error about a corrupt file etc) how far is it getting ? Did it play the intro music, show the license agreement, let you start installing it?

 

If you are installing it and have go to the point where it's installing but doesn't seem to finish, have you acknowledged the UAC dialog - the Windows dialog which warns you the program is about to make changes to your computer (the one you get any time you install anything) - occasionally that pops up behind every other window rather than in front of them, but if you don't acknowledge it, you can't install the program.

 

Are you running any third party anti-virus program (not Windows defender)?  If so, try disabling it while installing NVDA and then reenabling it.

 

Failing all that, if you look in the %temp% folder, there should be an nvda.log file (for the currently running, or most recently running copy of NVDA) and an nvda-old.log file (for the instance before that).  If you could send me whichever one of those was written for the install attempt, I can see if there's anything else there.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 5:01 AM Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Hi all. Can’t install NVDA 2020 beta I. Just beeps away. Running WIN 10 current Insider build. I don’t know if this a bad file that was uploaded or not.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

                                                                                                               

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 

Re: Can't install NVDA 2020 beta I

Lino Morales
 

Hi Quinton. I’ve done all this. I’ll attempt to install again with a fresh download. I got no error. Thanks.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

                                                                                                               

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 7:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can't install NVDA 2020 beta I

 

Others have installed it, so I think the file available from  https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2020-1beta1-available-for-testing/ should be ok, but maybe it didn't download properly?

 

If it's running though (as in it started up without an error about a corrupt file etc) how far is it getting ? Did it play the intro music, show the license agreement, let you start installing it?

 

If you are installing it and have go to the point where it's installing but doesn't seem to finish, have you acknowledged the UAC dialog - the Windows dialog which warns you the program is about to make changes to your computer (the one you get any time you install anything) - occasionally that pops up behind every other window rather than in front of them, but if you don't acknowledge it, you can't install the program.

 

Are you running any third party anti-virus program (not Windows defender)?  If so, try disabling it while installing NVDA and then reenabling it.

 

Failing all that, if you look in the %temp% folder, there should be an nvda.log file (for the currently running, or most recently running copy of NVDA) and an nvda-old.log file (for the instance before that).  If you could send me whichever one of those was written for the install attempt, I can see if there's anything else there.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 5:01 AM Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Hi all. Can’t install NVDA 2020 beta I. Just beeps away. Running WIN 10 current Insider build. I don’t know if this a bad file that was uploaded or not.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

                                                                                                               

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 

Re: Can't install NVDA 2020 beta I

Quentin Christensen
 

Others have installed it, so I think the file available from  https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2020-1beta1-available-for-testing/ should be ok, but maybe it didn't download properly?

If it's running though (as in it started up without an error about a corrupt file etc) how far is it getting ? Did it play the intro music, show the license agreement, let you start installing it?

If you are installing it and have go to the point where it's installing but doesn't seem to finish, have you acknowledged the UAC dialog - the Windows dialog which warns you the program is about to make changes to your computer (the one you get any time you install anything) - occasionally that pops up behind every other window rather than in front of them, but if you don't acknowledge it, you can't install the program.

Are you running any third party anti-virus program (not Windows defender)?  If so, try disabling it while installing NVDA and then reenabling it.

Failing all that, if you look in the %temp% folder, there should be an nvda.log file (for the currently running, or most recently running copy of NVDA) and an nvda-old.log file (for the instance before that).  If you could send me whichever one of those was written for the install attempt, I can see if there's anything else there.

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 5:01 AM Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Hi all. Can’t install NVDA 2020 beta I. Just beeps away. Running WIN 10 current Insider build. I don’t know if this a bad file that was uploaded or not.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

                                                                                                               

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Vocalizer Expressive Driver

Andrea Sherry
 

Has ceased to function under the latest NVDA beta.
Has anyone else had this experience?
Andrea

locked Re: Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

 

Hi,

All my add-ons (at least ones I’m maintaining) will support Windows 7 as long as NVDA supports it. Two exceptions: Enhanced Touch Gestures as it does not support anything earlier than Windows 8.1, and Windows 10 App Essentials which is tied to support lifecycle for consumers from Microsoft for each feature update; these two add-ons include routines to reject installation on Windows 7 systems.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

 

On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 04:28 PM, Gene wrote:

Whether and for how long it is supported, I suspect that Windows 7 is enough like Windows 10 that add-ons and NVDA will continue to work, at least for quite a while.

I agree.  But the time will come, probably later rather than sooner, when a necessary change to NVDA or a given add-on breaks backward compatibility with Windows 7 as a direct effect.   And depending on when that happens to occur it could be very difficult to try to justify jumping through any hoops for maintaining backward compatibility.  This pattern has occurred over and over again over the decades.

To quote the song lyric, "History keeps repeating itself."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

 

On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 04:57 PM, Devin Prater wrote:
but they understand the iPhone quickly, and JAWS too
I disagree with this statement, particularly with regard to JAWS.  I've been tutoring for years for JAWS, and I have yet to have a client understand it quickly, and that's even for folks who were very sophisticated Windows users prior to losing their site.

I had one client (and, yes, I know that one is not a valid sample) who could use the iPhone very proficiently, including VoiceOver, but who could never master the rotor (and not secondary to any motor issues).

After decades in IT one of the claims, about anything technology-related, that instantly makes me cringe is, "It's intuitive."   There is no such thing as a very highly featured system that is intuitive in any meaningful sense of that word.   Some are easier than others to get the hang of the basics, but all require intensive practice to master even the subset of non-basic commands a given user might use.   Microsoft Word is the perfect example of that.  It's dirt simple to create a dirt simple document, but when you start going beyond that, things get complicated and you can end up "in the weeds" with unbelievable speed if you try to guess what you need to do.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

locked Re: Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

 

On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 04:28 PM, Gene wrote:
Whether and for how long it is supported, I suspect that Windows 7 is enough like Windows 10 that add-ons and NVDA will continue to work, at least for quite a while.
I agree.  But the time will come, probably later rather than sooner, when a necessary change to NVDA or a given add-on breaks backward compatibility with Windows 7 as a direct effect.   And depending on when that happens to occur it could be very difficult to try to justify jumping through any hoops for maintaining backward compatibility.  This pattern has occurred over and over again over the decades.

To quote the song lyric, "History keeps repeating itself."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

Devin Prater
 

At the AT department I work for, we teach NVDA. We don’t put $1000 licenses, or even $100 ones, on our clients. Really, I think all that NVDA needs now is good hints, like JAWS has “tutor messages.” I know, there is an add-on, where one has to remember to press a keyboard command to open a help message, but if we have help messages built in, and extendable by other addons to other apps, configurable right from the welcome dialog, and turned off for people updating NVDA, NVDA will be even easier to learn. My students have me to teach them, but not all blind people are so fortunate.

Let’s say that NVDA does become the industry standard. What then? There are professionals who just dump equipment on blind people’s doorstep and leave it for blind people to learn. There are blind people who are told to just go buy a PC and have sighted help to slap NVDA on it, with the blind person knowing little to nothing about Windows. Sure, blind people may always need training, but they understand the iPhone quickly, and JAWS too. Can’t we emulate them at least as far as giving good beginner hints on using controls, or even basic tips for using Windows, using Tab, Arrows, Windows key, and maybe a link to Windows keyboard commands? Narrator does some of this, and I could see it, after its web navigation is tightened up, gaining lots of usage for it.

On Mar 23, 2020, at 3:32 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 04:24 PM, Jesse Farquharson wrote:
an opensource program, means that you can have someone who is qualified come in to externally audit the software and say, "yes, this program is absolutely safe," if you are inclined to do so.
Yep, and not just for NVDA.  It seems that slowly, but surely, many IT professionals are getting "the powers that be" to recognize this.  There is far less resistance to open source software in the business market than there once was.  But since that resistance started out as absolute, it's still nowhere close to the degree of acceptance that should prevail.

That being said, there are many ways that current security suites use to analyze closed source code to see if it's been compromised.  There is good reason, very good reason, to believe that commercial software makers are not going to rob their customers (of passwords or cash, anyway - data is another matter altogether).  
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 
 

locked Re: Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

 

Hi,

Believe it or not, someone just published an article noting that there is already a zero-day exploit targeting unpatched Windows systems, including, unfortunately, Windows 7. This zero-day exploit relates to font handling by Adobe Font Manager, and I expect Microsoft to issue a patch to supported Windows releases; in case of Windows 7, no consumer-level patch will be issued through Windows Update unless it becomes too urgent to do so.

With that in mind, as far as public relations goes, Windows 7 is unsupported. Microsoft does sell extended security updates (ESU’s) for Windows 7 but only to businesses. As for NVDA dropping support for Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2, not for a while unless it becomes hard to justify Windows 7 support (one of my upcoming summer projects will look into what it takes to support Windows 8.1 and higher and potential impact for users).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 1:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

 

Joseph and all

 

You and others may want to comment, but I doubt that Windows 7 will be a problem.  Whether and for how long it is supported, I suspect that Windows 7 is enough like Windows 10 that add-ons and NVDA will continue to work, at least for quite a while.  Of course, there are apps that are not usable in Windows 7 and of course attachments related to them won’t be usable.  But it is my impression that Windows 7 is much more like Windows 10 than XP was to Windows 7 and higher.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 12:58 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

 

Hi,

The exact statements from NV Access and developers back then were that using XP is now a security risk for many, and that people can use NVDA 2017.3 and old add-ons should they need to use XP and friends. As for my statement back then, it referred to my own add-ons. The statement I wrote below covers cases where a user would write to developers asking us to make certain new features available for old releases, which cannot be done, particularly now that we have fully moved onto Python 3.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 10:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

 

Hi, I don’t remember the time you and NVDA developers did say xp support was no longer going to work for users who still want to continue using xp.  You did say maybe 2 or 3 years ago you were going to no longer support xp and vista.  I think windows 7 is next. 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: March 22, 2020 3:01 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

 

Hello NVDA users and add-on developers,

 

First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen to advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. Even if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please support each other.

 

Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.

 

At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, with many people  asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement:

 

Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, “sorry, no more, period.” These include:

 

  • Making add-ons compatible with Windows XP, Server 2003, Vista, and Server 2008
  • Fixing compatibility issues and non-working add-ons after you knowingly install newer add-on releases on NVDA 2017.3 or earlier
  • Backporting features and bug fixes from newer NVDA releases to NVDA 2017.3
  • Maintaining a long-term support version of NVDA for Windows XP/Server 2003/Vista/Server 2008 users

 

Most importantly, I will flatly say “no” if you ask me privately to ask NV Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons, including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example), incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example), features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example), support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I’m either maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA 2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends.

 

My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an individual developer to sink in. Note that I’m not speaking on behalf of other developers – others have their own policies regarding support for Windows XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.

 

I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted folks to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases (including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a bold statement and say “no” to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support Windows XP, but didn’t announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close the doors to Windows XP support from my end – once again, this is an individual developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing that others will make statements on their own.

 

Thank you for understanding.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

 

On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 04:24 PM, Jesse Farquharson wrote:
an opensource program, means that you can have someone who is qualified come in to externally audit the software and say, "yes, this program is absolutely safe," if you are inclined to do so.
Yep, and not just for NVDA.  It seems that slowly, but surely, many IT professionals are getting "the powers that be" to recognize this.  There is far less resistance to open source software in the business market than there once was.  But since that resistance started out as absolute, it's still nowhere close to the degree of acceptance that should prevail.

That being said, there are many ways that current security suites use to analyze closed source code to see if it's been compromised.  There is good reason, very good reason, to believe that commercial software makers are not going to rob their customers (of passwords or cash, anyway - data is another matter altogether).  
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Re: PodCast Reader

Andrea Sherry
 

Thanks

On 23/03/2020 7:47 pm, Jacob Kruger wrote:
This might not be specifically relevant to usage with NVDA, but, it's specifically accessible:

https://www.webbie.org.uk/accessiblepodcatcher/


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"...resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2020-03-22 11:30 PM, Andrea Sherry wrote:
Is there a program works well with NVDA 20193.1 and Windows 10?


locked Re: Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

Gene
 

Joseph and all
 
You and others may want to comment, but I doubt that Windows 7 will be a problem.  Whether and for how long it is supported, I suspect that Windows 7 is enough like Windows 10 that add-ons and NVDA will continue to work, at least for quite a while.  Of course, there are apps that are not usable in Windows 7 and of course attachments related to them won’t be usable.  But it is my impression that Windows 7 is much more like Windows 10 than XP was to Windows 7 and higher.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
 

Hi,

The exact statements from NV Access and developers back then were that using XP is now a security risk for many, and that people can use NVDA 2017.3 and old add-ons should they need to use XP and friends. As for my statement back then, it referred to my own add-ons. The statement I wrote below covers cases where a user would write to developers asking us to make certain new features available for old releases, which cannot be done, particularly now that we have fully moved onto Python 3.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 10:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

 

Hi, I don’t remember the time you and NVDA developers did say xp support was no longer going to work for users who still want to continue using xp.  You did say maybe 2 or 3 years ago you were going to no longer support xp and vista.  I think windows 7 is next. 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: March 22, 2020 3:01 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period

 

Hello NVDA users and add-on developers,

 

First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen to advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. Even if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please support each other.

 

Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.

 

At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, with many people  asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement:

 

Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, “sorry, no more, period.” These include:

 

  • Making add-ons compatible with Windows XP, Server 2003, Vista, and Server 2008
  • Fixing compatibility issues and non-working add-ons after you knowingly install newer add-on releases on NVDA 2017.3 or earlier
  • Backporting features and bug fixes from newer NVDA releases to NVDA 2017.3
  • Maintaining a long-term support version of NVDA for Windows XP/Server 2003/Vista/Server 2008 users

 

Most importantly, I will flatly say “no” if you ask me privately to ask NV Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons, including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example), incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example), features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example), support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I’m either maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA 2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends.

 

My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an individual developer to sink in. Note that I’m not speaking on behalf of other developers – others have their own policies regarding support for Windows XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.

 

I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted folks to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases (including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a bold statement and say “no” to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support Windows XP, but didn’t announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close the doors to Windows XP support from my end – once again, this is an individual developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing that others will make statements on their own.

 

Thank you for understanding.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

Jesse Farquharson
 

On 3/23/2020 2:49 PM, Austin Pinto wrote:
also many people have told me that nvda is not as secure as jaws which
i think is totally wrong.
I have heard this, so many times, and it takes me everything I have not to literally laugh in the faces of those I hear that from.
JAWS is a closed source program, just like, for instance, Microsoft Word or Outlook. That means that you can't crack them open and see what they're doing, and as such, for all you know you could be installing key loggers on your computer. And yet, schools all over the world use both programs.

JAWS could be a simple screenreader, but as I said, it's closed source. So the security risks are unknown.


NVDA, being an opensource program, means that you can have someone who is qualified come in to externally audit the software and say, "yes, this program is absolutely safe," if you are inclined to do so.


There are only real risks when you install addons from unknown sources, as all of those which are on the community addons page have been verified as safe by the rest of the community.


So really, which is the bigger risk here?

On 3/23/20, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:
Correct! I totally get your point and I agree with you 100%.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 11:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Free JAWS licence that was anounced today



On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 02:02 PM, Sky Mundell wrote:

I am certainly in favor of client
choice and I am in favor of cheaper stuff but at the moment its going to be
real tough to get organisations to realize that NVDA even exists let alone
trying it out.

And having slogged that road I can say you're correct. That being said,
it's only if we keep beating the NVDA-option drum that it will ever make
inroads in both commercial and academic environments to a much greater
extent than it already has.

JAWS being the "granddaddy of all screen readers" means that it has a
massively huge head start. But I think Vispero sees the writing on the
wall, as both NVDA and Narrator are both strong competitors, and will only
keep becoming stronger ones. I believe that's why the whole new
subscription licensing came into existence. People are now balking at what
had historically been asked as far as price for JAWS.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

~ Madonna










Re: Q Read alternative

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi Isaac


Will contact you shortly off list. Through the website? or I will see if it is in the header for it.


Just downloaded the latest 2020 beta 1 for a sus and see if any problems. I will test with the beta unless you want it with the stable for the moment?

Till any problems are sorted? if any.


Gene nz

On 23/03/2020 10:38 pm, Isaac Porat wrote:
Hi Gene


This is Isaac the developer of both SpeakOn and SpeechHub


Yes, I developed both add-ons for SpeakOn and SpeechHub for the latest NVDA version 2019.3.1

I operate both here on my computer and a couple of testers found no problem with these.

I want to do a bit more testing, as you have tested for me before both SpeechHub and SpeakOn you are welcome to write to me off list and I shall let you know how to obtain these add-ons for testing.


Regards

Isaac




On 22/03/2020 20:26, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:
Hi


Do you know if he is going to update the speech hub add on? so it works with nvda 2019.3


When I tried it  the last version was nvda 2019.2.1 I think it was I would have to check.


Gene nz


On 23/03/2020 8:01 am, David Griffith wrote:

Speak On supports Daisy through its Audio Books app but I don’t know about XML 5 but if somebody sent me a sample I could try it and see.

Speak On is self-voicing much like Kurzweil so you would not use a Screenreader with it as it is controlled just as if you were using a screenreader.

Isaac told me that he has updated the NVDA and Speech Player addons to be compatible with the latest version of NVDA but I don’t think they have been published yet.

As I understand it the NVDA addon simply mutes NVDA whilst Speak On is in Focus

David Griffith

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *john s
*Sent:* 22 March 2020 18:23
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Q Read alternative

David, the NFB content is Daisy, which xml files.

Can my screen reader be used in this program?

At 12:10 PM 3/22/2020, David Griffith, wrote:


    Speak On was developed in the UK so the only direct connections it
    has to download is content from the RNIB eText and Audio Newsagent
    service and it also connects directly to TuneIn Radio if you have
    an  account with them.
    However it does have a “Virtual Readerâ€�function which
    interacts with the automatic eText digital content generated by
    for Newspapers and Magazines in the UK which makes for a more
    pleasant reading experience.
    If Newsline produces material in ePub2 format then it may be worth
    importing the content into Speak On and try reading it with the
    RNIB eText Newsagent app anyway to see if this provides a good
    experience.
    If you wanted to do this you would need to first of all add the
    RNIB eText app from the add plugins section of the Tools menu and
    then place your Newsline content, assuming it is epPub2 Â into Â
    the Current Reading directory under the RNIB etect directory under
    My Speak On media folder.

    Of course you can also read the ePub also using Speak On’s eBook
    function – oone of the worst decisions Isaac took was to name this
    app Text Publications which disguises it utility as an eBook reader.

    David Griffith

    So it cannot, as far as I am aware connect
    Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
    for Windows 10

    *From: *john s <mailto:jschwery@...>
    *Sent: *22 March 2020 14:59
    *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
    *Subject: *Re: [nvda] Q Read alternative

    David, does  speak on handle NFB Newsline content?

    Also, can the program use my screen reader?

    At 09:56 AM 3/22/2020, David Griffith, wrote:

    OK

    My actual Podcasts on Speak On are being distributed by Talking
    Computers on a monthly basis and will appear on the Speak On
    website a month later but you can find all the recordings below on
    SendSpace links which will hopefully not be an issue. If there is
    an issue then I will try and put them also on Open  drive.

    The main Speak On app is being continuously maintained by Isaac
    the Program developer though he has no intentions to do major
    revisions of the app.

    The series is not complete as there will be further Podcasts on
    the RNIB Daisy magazine Service, using the Podcasts app and the
    Music app to follow.

    I actually intend to replace and re-record the eBook Podcasts as
    half - way through the volume increases which is a little
    distracting.

    Speak On Resources

    You can download Speak On media Suite from

    http://www.speakon.org.uk/SpeakOn.html

    Speak On Media Podcast

    01 Introduction Speak on Media Suite.mp3

    This Podcast covers setting up Speak On Media, changing the
    default synthesiser to a more friendly voice and introduces you to
    the range of apps available

    by default, and then the further apps available through additional
    optional plugins.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/otzppu

    02 Getting an Audio Books into Speak On Media Suite.mp3

    This Podcast describes how shortcuts and the send to menu in File
    Explorer can be utilised to make it much easier to import books
    and other content into

    Speak On Media.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/v7dhkt

    03 Playing Daisy and Audio Books in Speak On.mp3

    This Podcast covers loading and reading of Daisy and Audio Books.
    It explains Speak On navigation options, bookmarking, and varying
    the speed and volume

    of playback. It also introduces Speak On’s context sensitive
    help feature.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/ye758q

    04 Reading eBooks on Speak On

    This covers.

    -Loading an eBook into the Speak On Directory through the Send To
    Menu.

    -changing the Reading Voice.

    - Navigation levels available in the eBook.

    - Managing Bookmarks and getting book size information.

    -Tabbing through the Player Bookmark list and Library view.

    - Adjusting the speed and volume of book playback on the fly.

    - Copying and pasting text from an eBook into Notepad.

    - Saving Sections of the book as text files.

    - Creating a "virtual eBook" based upon a search term.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/akbva2

    05 Speak On and Internet Radio

    This Podcast covers

    - Using a free or paid Tunein account to access Radio in Speak On.

    - Using the optional VI Radio app.

    - Importing Radio Streams into the Other Media app to create a 3rd
    Customised Internet Radio app.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/sgqix8

    Link to a Radio Streams folder to import into Speak On.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/p7xu1m

    06 Using Speak On and the RNIB Reading Service.

    This Podcasts covers downloading a daisy Book from the new RNIB
    Reading Service and playing it in Speak On.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/j006ie

    07 Speak On and the RNIB Newsagent Service Part 1 - Newspapers.

    This Podcasts covers.

    1. Advantages of using Speak On to easily access the eText
    Newspaper service, including its Virtual Reader function to
    streamline reading.

    Installing the task and logging into the eText service.

    Loading of Newspapers, navigation and adjustment of speed and
    volume of playback.

    Setting up favourite papers.

    Bookmarking and extracting articles into text files.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/d40tj7

    08 Speak On and the RNIB magazine Service

    As unfortunately the RNIB have broken links to some of the
    Magazines and not updated information to Speak ON, there is a need
    in some cases to download

    and import Magazines manually . This Podcasts describes this
    workaround and explains why you would still want to use Speak On
    to read your magazines in

    this use case.

    https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/jsp0da

    From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
    <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
    David Griffith via Groups.Io

    Sent: 22 March 2020 13:41

    To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

    Subject: Re: [nvda] Q Read alternative

    It is  not a media player rather than a book reader but both and a
    lot lot more.

    I will send a list of my Podcasts on it in a minute,

    David Griffith

    Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
    for Windows 10

    From: Robert Kingett <mailto:@blindjourno>

    Sent: 22 March 2020 01:44

    To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

    Subject: Re: [nvda] Q Read alternative

    The only thing I could find about speak on is the below website?
    The last update was 2016. Is there a newer version I'm missing? It
    seems like it's a media player rather than a book reader so if
    anybody has an updated link, put it in the thread.

    http://www.speakon.org.uk/SpeakOn.html

                     John

                     John



Re: Q Read alternative

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


Speak on is a no only windows.


Gene nz


On 24/03/2020 3:03 am, Akshaya Choudhary wrote:
Hllo guys,
Is something like book warm and speak on is available for android?

--
Regards,
Sociohack

Re: Free JAWS licence that was anounced today

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I also have friends that don't want to try NVDA. I'm sure if we keep spreading the word about NVDA, It will be used both in commercial as well as home settings. Last year my sister gave me the annual home license for Jaws for muy birthday but I told her not too long ago that I wouldn't be renewing it this year because of the high cost.


Rosemarie

On 3/23/2020 11:02 AM, Sky Mundell wrote:
Hello guys . I do agree with everybody about what they're saying. However, I
am going to point something out to you, and that is, as a 6 year adaptive
tech trainer who has trained blind students in screen readers, I have to say
that there are folks out there that won't give up there screen reader too
easily. As an example, I do have friends out there that know that NVDA
exists, and so on and so forth, but a lot of them think that if something is
cheaper, it is inferior. I'll give you an example. I do have a friend in
California who has heard of NVDA, and her blind friends know that NVDA
exists, and they have tried it but they end up going back to JAWS because
its what they know. Also Many of the institutions that I've come across have
never heard of NVDA, or if they have heard of it, they assume that it is
incomplete or inferior because they have seem more than one person use JAWS
and iPhones so they think, all blind folks use, are JAWS screen reader, and
iPhones. Which, as you and I know, is not true. As, while JAWS and iPhone's
are certainly used, not everybody uses, or cannot afford, either JAWS, or
iPhone. Another example is that I have a relative that works at a
university, and they use JAWS and I bet if they have heard of NVDA they
would be reluctant to try it because they would, once again, assume it is
incomplete, and inferior. Sadly, there is no support for NVDA in the school
districts that I am aware of where I am. I am certainly in favor of client
choice and I am in favor of cheaper stuff but at the moment its going to be
real tough to get organisations to realize that NVDA even exists let alone
trying it out.