Topics

FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps#ADVISORY #winten1803 #winten1709

mattias
 

Narrator to slow and clunky?

What do you meen with clunky?

Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

 

Från: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Skickat: den 24 februari 2018 10:50
Till: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Ämne: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

 

It seems to me like Microsoft are slipping back into the ways that got them

into the brown sticky stuff with edge. Ie changing things and putting out

releases with no advisory to the screenreader community of a big change in

the system. we have seen it in Skype recently too. Somebody over there at

Microsoft needs to get a better grip on changes that affect access software

and not merely assume narrator is all that matters.

 

Narrator is still too slow and clunky to use every day.

I was going to get a windows 10 machine but until they stop messing about

I'm sorely tempted to stay old fashioned!

 

Have they lost that Jenny whats her name from the accessibility management

who seemed to do a good job before?

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal email to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 5:46 PM

Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers must

support uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps

#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

 

 

> Hi all,

> First, apologies for mentioning competition, but I felt it is best to do

> so

> given the overall context. Second, the advisory is deemed major (to severe

> for some cases) and is applicable for people running Windows 10 Fall

> Creators Update and beyond. The source of this advisory is a Win10 forum

> hosted on Groups.IO at https://win10.groups.io/g/win10.

> Thanks.

> From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of

> Joseph Lee

> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 9:42 AM

> To: win10@win10.groups.io

> Subject: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers must support uIA

> notification event in order to announce various things from apps #ADVISORY

> #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

> Hi everyone,

> The following advisory is considered major in that it impacts all known

> screen readers )except for one or two; feel free to pass this on, although

> please do cite where you've got the advisory from):

> Problem: notifications from apps such as Calculator, Microsoft Store and

> others are not announced by screen readers.

> Background: in Windows 10 Version 1709 and later, if apps are written

> correctly, they can send notification texts to be announced by screen

> readers. A UIA client such as a screen reader must be able to catch this

> in

> order to announce certain notifications, including Calculator's display

> window, app update status in Microsoft Store, various notifications from

> Edge, Alarms and Clock and other apps.

> Steps to reproduce:

> 1. While using Windows 10 Version 1709 or later (including current

> Insider Preview builds), launch an app such as Alarms and Clock (be sure

> it

> is the latest version).

> 2. In case of Alarms and Clock, go to Stopwatch tab and start and stop

> the stopwatch.

> 3. For Calculator, do some calculations.

> Expected: screen reader announces messages such as "Stopwatch stopped" in

> Alarms and Clock and "display is something" in Calculator.

> Actual: only Narrator announces such texts.

> Cause: other screen readers do not track UIA notification event. This is

> due

> to the fact that Version 1709 introduces this event, which requires

> tracking

> a newer UIA interface.

> Known solutions/mitigations/workarounds and impact:

> * Narrator: green light/okay; works out of the box (requires Version

> 1709 and later).

> * JAWS for Windows: red light/major; no support (version 2018.1802.78

> did not solve the Calculator display text problem, for instance).

> * NonVisual Desktop Access: yellow light/solution being tested

> (through an add-on update).

> This advisory will be closed once major screen readers (in addition to the

> three listed above) provides at least a basic solution.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

>

 

 

 

 

Felix G.
 

Hi!
Narrator seems to have gotten snappier in recent versions. My main problem with it is that it limits my browser choice, and screen readers should strive not to do that.
Best,
Felix

mattias <mjonsson1986@...> schrieb am Sa., 24. Feb. 2018 um 11:46 Uhr:

Narrator to slow and clunky?

What do you meen with clunky?

Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

 

Från: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Skickat: den 24 februari 2018 10:50
Till: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Ämne: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

 

It seems to me like Microsoft are slipping back into the ways that got them

into the brown sticky stuff with edge. Ie changing things and putting out

releases with no advisory to the screenreader community of a big change in

the system. we have seen it in Skype recently too. Somebody over there at

Microsoft needs to get a better grip on changes that affect access software

and not merely assume narrator is all that matters.

 

Narrator is still too slow and clunky to use every day.

I was going to get a windows 10 machine but until they stop messing about

I'm sorely tempted to stay old fashioned!

 

Have they lost that Jenny whats her name from the accessibility management

who seemed to do a good job before?

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal email to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 5:46 PM

Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers must

support uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps

#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

 

 

> Hi all,

> 

> 

> 

> First, apologies for mentioning competition, but I felt it is best to do

> so

> given the overall context. Second, the advisory is deemed major (to severe

> for some cases) and is applicable for people running Windows 10 Fall

> Creators Update and beyond. The source of this advisory is a Win10 forum

> hosted on Groups.IO at https://win10.groups.io/g/win10.

> 

> 

> 

> Thanks.

> 

> 

> 

> From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of

> Joseph Lee

> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 9:42 AM

> To: win10@win10.groups.io

> Subject: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers must support uIA

> notification event in order to announce various things from apps #ADVISORY

> #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

> 

> 

> 

> Hi everyone,

> 

> 

> 

> The following advisory is considered major in that it impacts all known

> screen readers )except for one or two; feel free to pass this on, although

> please do cite where you've got the advisory from):

> 

> 

> 

> Problem: notifications from apps such as Calculator, Microsoft Store and

> others are not announced by screen readers.

> 

> 

> 

> Background: in Windows 10 Version 1709 and later, if apps are written

> correctly, they can send notification texts to be announced by screen

> readers. A UIA client such as a screen reader must be able to catch this

> in

> order to announce certain notifications, including Calculator's display

> window, app update status in Microsoft Store, various notifications from

> Edge, Alarms and Clock and other apps.

> 

> 

> 

> Steps to reproduce:

> 

> 

> 

> 1. While using Windows 10 Version 1709 or later (including current

> Insider Preview builds), launch an app such as Alarms and Clock (be sure

> it

> is the latest version).

> 2. In case of Alarms and Clock, go to Stopwatch tab and start and stop

> the stopwatch.

> 3. For Calculator, do some calculations.

> 

> 

> 

> Expected: screen reader announces messages such as "Stopwatch stopped" in

> Alarms and Clock and "display is something" in Calculator.

> 

> Actual: only Narrator announces such texts.

> 

> Cause: other screen readers do not track UIA notification event. This is

> due

> to the fact that Version 1709 introduces this event, which requires

> tracking

> a newer UIA interface.

> 

> 

> 

> Known solutions/mitigations/workarounds and impact:

> 

> 

> 

> * Narrator: green light/okay; works out of the box (requires Version

> 1709 and later).

> * JAWS for Windows: red light/major; no support (version 2018.1802.78

> did not solve the Calculator display text problem, for instance).

> * NonVisual Desktop Access: yellow light/solution being tested

> (through an add-on update).

> 

> 

> 

> This advisory will be closed once major screen readers (in addition to the

> three listed above) provides at least a basic solution.

> 

> 

> 

> Cheers,

> 

> Joseph

> 

> 

> 

>

 

 

 

 

Adriani Botez
 

Hello Felix and all,

 

I am really asking myself how much time will Microsoft invest in developing Narator? We see in case of Voice Over no development since many years.

 

Jaws seems to concentrate more and more on Chrome, my last answer regarding Firefox was that it is not of high priority because there are other alternatives on the market. The same answer has been given regarding Edge.

 

I see NVDA as the only community which will support almost all browsers in the future. If you look on Github, you will se lots of issues regarding every browser. This indicates that the demand is big when it comes to different browsers. Users of NVDA are not mostly focused on only one or two browsers.

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Felix G.
Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Februar 2018 13:14
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

 

Hi!

Narrator seems to have gotten snappier in recent versions. My main problem with it is that it limits my browser choice, and screen readers should strive not to do that.

Best,

Felix

 

mattias <mjonsson1986@...> schrieb am Sa., 24. Feb. 2018 um 11:46 Uhr:

Narrator to slow and clunky?

What do you meen with clunky?

Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

 

Från: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Skickat: den 24 februari 2018 10:50
Till: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Ämne: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

 

It seems to me like Microsoft are slipping back into the ways that got them

into the brown sticky stuff with edge. Ie changing things and putting out

releases with no advisory to the screenreader community of a big change in

the system. we have seen it in Skype recently too. Somebody over there at

Microsoft needs to get a better grip on changes that affect access software

and not merely assume narrator is all that matters.

 

Narrator is still too slow and clunky to use every day.

I was going to get a windows 10 machine but until they stop messing about

I'm sorely tempted to stay old fashioned!

 

Have they lost that Jenny whats her name from the accessibility management

who seemed to do a good job before?

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal email to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 5:46 PM

Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers must

support uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps

#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

 

 

> Hi all,

> First, apologies for mentioning competition, but I felt it is best to do

> so

> given the overall context. Second, the advisory is deemed major (to severe

> for some cases) and is applicable for people running Windows 10 Fall

> Creators Update and beyond. The source of this advisory is a Win10 forum

> hosted on Groups.IO at https://win10.groups.io/g/win10.

> Thanks.

> From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of

> Joseph Lee

> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 9:42 AM

> To: win10@win10.groups.io

> Subject: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers must support uIA

> notification event in order to announce various things from apps #ADVISORY

> #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

> Hi everyone,

> The following advisory is considered major in that it impacts all known

> screen readers )except for one or two; feel free to pass this on, although

> please do cite where you've got the advisory from):

> Problem: notifications from apps such as Calculator, Microsoft Store and

> others are not announced by screen readers.

> Background: in Windows 10 Version 1709 and later, if apps are written

> correctly, they can send notification texts to be announced by screen

> readers. A UIA client such as a screen reader must be able to catch this

> in

> order to announce certain notifications, including Calculator's display

> window, app update status in Microsoft Store, various notifications from

> Edge, Alarms and Clock and other apps.

> Steps to reproduce:

> 1. While using Windows 10 Version 1709 or later (including current

> Insider Preview builds), launch an app such as Alarms and Clock (be sure

> it

> is the latest version).

> 2. In case of Alarms and Clock, go to Stopwatch tab and start and stop

> the stopwatch.

> 3. For Calculator, do some calculations.

> Expected: screen reader announces messages such as "Stopwatch stopped" in

> Alarms and Clock and "display is something" in Calculator.

> Actual: only Narrator announces such texts.

> Cause: other screen readers do not track UIA notification event. This is

> due

> to the fact that Version 1709 introduces this event, which requires

> tracking

> a newer UIA interface.

> Known solutions/mitigations/workarounds and impact:

> * Narrator: green light/okay; works out of the box (requires Version

> 1709 and later).

> * JAWS for Windows: red light/major; no support (version 2018.1802.78

> did not solve the Calculator display text problem, for instance).

> * NonVisual Desktop Access: yellow light/solution being tested

> (through an add-on update).

> This advisory will be closed once major screen readers (in addition to the

> three listed above) provides at least a basic solution.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

>

 

 

 

 

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Hmm well it just feels hard to learn its keys and then you do it feels very sluggish to me, but then I only get to use it when I am on windows 10, and so I'm not exposed to it most of the time. Most people I know are on windows 7 and that includes most of the people who work for the NHS in the UK as well, so I think although here we may suggest that windows ten is the way all should go, many companies and organisations are reluctant to break what is working for them and blind people who work for them will have to use what they have.
Like XP which is still in use a lot in the UK, I think the hype over windows 10 is much over the top. I think that while they keep moving goalposts about many admins will steer clear in case it mangles already running systems.

However that is my own opinion, and I'm not entering into a my screenreader is better than yours thread on here.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "mattias" <mjonsson1986@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803


Narrator to slow and clunky?
What do you meen with clunky?
Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

Från: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Skickat: den 24 februari 2018 10:50
Till: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Ämne: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

It seems to me like Microsoft are slipping back into the ways that got them
into the brown sticky stuff with edge. Ie changing things and putting out
releases with no advisory to the screenreader community of a big change in
the system. we have seen it in Skype recently too. Somebody over there at
Microsoft needs to get a better grip on changes that affect access software
and not merely assume narrator is all that matters.

Narrator is still too slow and clunky to use every day.
I was going to get a windows 10 machine but until they stop messing about
I'm sorely tempted to stay old fashioned!

Have they lost that Jenny whats her name from the accessibility management
who seemed to do a good job before?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <@joslee>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 5:46 PM
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers must
support uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps
#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803


Hi all,



First, apologies for mentioning competition, but I felt it is best to do
so
given the overall context. Second, the advisory is deemed major (to severe
for some cases) and is applicable for people running Windows 10 Fall
Creators Update and beyond. The source of this advisory is a Win10 forum
hosted on Groups.IO at https://win10.groups.io/g/win10.



Thanks.



From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 9:42 AM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers must support uIA
notification event in order to announce various things from apps #ADVISORY
#WinTen1709 #WinTen1803



Hi everyone,



The following advisory is considered major in that it impacts all known
screen readers )except for one or two; feel free to pass this on, although
please do cite where you've got the advisory from):



Problem: notifications from apps such as Calculator, Microsoft Store and
others are not announced by screen readers.



Background: in Windows 10 Version 1709 and later, if apps are written
correctly, they can send notification texts to be announced by screen
readers. A UIA client such as a screen reader must be able to catch this
in
order to announce certain notifications, including Calculator's display
window, app update status in Microsoft Store, various notifications from
Edge, Alarms and Clock and other apps.



Steps to reproduce:



1. While using Windows 10 Version 1709 or later (including current
Insider Preview builds), launch an app such as Alarms and Clock (be sure
it
is the latest version).
2. In case of Alarms and Clock, go to Stopwatch tab and start and stop
the stopwatch.
3. For Calculator, do some calculations.



Expected: screen reader announces messages such as "Stopwatch stopped" in
Alarms and Clock and "display is something" in Calculator.

Actual: only Narrator announces such texts.

Cause: other screen readers do not track UIA notification event. This is
due
to the fact that Version 1709 introduces this event, which requires
tracking
a newer UIA interface.



Known solutions/mitigations/workarounds and impact:



* Narrator: green light/okay; works out of the box (requires Version
1709 and later).
* JAWS for Windows: red light/major; no support (version 2018.1802.78
did not solve the Calculator display text problem, for instance).
* NonVisual Desktop Access: yellow light/solution being tested
(through an add-on update).



This advisory will be closed once major screen readers (in addition to the
three listed above) provides at least a basic solution.



Cheers,

Joseph



Gene
 

A lot of businesses are slow to upgrade because their system works and they don't want the cost of training and of replacing a system that works well.  It's not just in the UK.  Microsoft is in the position, starting with XP, that they built reasonably mature operating systems and, aside from security and convenience features, it has to do what is done in mature capitalist markets, that is create a desire for things people didn't know they wanted before.  So the emphasis in Windows 10 is to get people to pay for and use all sorts of Microsoft services and to drive payments to Bing, by making it the default search engine, etc.  But a lot of people, businesses and institutions won't upgrade despite the new features and the services that are more convenient to use with Windows 10 or are not available in earlier versions of Windows. 
 
Looking back, this sort of thing had to happen.  It happens in all mature markets.  Once you stop selling necessities, or really useful fundamental services, you start selling increasingly less central services and products and you try to develop a demand for them.  That's why Windows 10 is free.  It's not the operating system that is the point.  It's getting it on as many machines as possible.  It's as though cars somehow became so cheap that they could be given away and more money could be made from selling services related to the car.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

Hmm well it just feels hard to learn its keys and then you do it feels very
sluggish to me, but then I only get to use it when I am on windows 10, and
so I'm not exposed to it most of the time. Most people I know are on windows
7 and that includes most of the people who work for the NHS in the UK as
well, so I think although here we may suggest that windows ten is the way
all should go, many companies and organisations are reluctant to break what
is working for them and blind people who work for them will have to use what
they have.
 Like XP which is still in use a lot in the UK, I think the hype over
windows 10 is much over the top. I think that while they keep moving
goalposts about many admins will steer clear in case it mangles already
running systems.

However that is my own opinion, and I'm not entering into  a my screenreader
is better than yours thread on here.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mattias" <mjonsson1986@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers
mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from
apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803


Narrator to slow and clunky?
What do you meen with clunky?
Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

Från: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Skickat: den 24 februari 2018 10:50
Till: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Ämne: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers
mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from
apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

It seems to me like Microsoft are slipping back into the ways that got them
into the brown sticky stuff with edge. Ie changing things and putting out
releases with no advisory to the screenreader community of a big change in
the system. we have seen it in Skype recently too. Somebody over there at
Microsoft needs to get a better grip on changes that affect access software
and not merely assume narrator is all that matters.

Narrator is still too slow and clunky to use every day.
 I was going to get a windows 10 machine but until they stop messing about
I'm sorely tempted to stay old fashioned!

Have they lost that Jenny whats her name from the accessibility management
who seemed to do a good job before?
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 5:46 PM
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers must
support uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps
#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803


> Hi all,
>
>
>
> First, apologies for mentioning competition, but I felt it is best to do
> so
> given the overall context. Second, the advisory is deemed major (to severe
> for some cases) and is applicable for people running Windows 10 Fall
> Creators Update and beyond. The source of this advisory is a Win10 forum
> hosted on Groups.IO at https://win10.groups.io/g/win10.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of
> Joseph Lee
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 9:42 AM
> To: win10@win10.groups.io
> Subject: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers must support uIA
> notification event in order to announce various things from apps #ADVISORY
> #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> The following advisory is considered major in that it impacts all known
> screen readers )except for one or two; feel free to pass this on, although
> please do cite where you've got the advisory from):
>
>
>
> Problem: notifications from apps such as Calculator, Microsoft Store and
> others are not announced by screen readers.
>
>
>
> Background: in Windows 10 Version 1709 and later, if apps are written
> correctly, they can send notification texts to be announced by screen
> readers. A UIA client such as a screen reader must be able to catch this
> in
> order to announce certain notifications, including Calculator's display
> window, app update status in Microsoft Store, various notifications from
> Edge, Alarms and Clock and other apps.
>
>
>
> Steps to reproduce:
>
>
>
> 1. While using Windows 10 Version 1709 or later (including current
> Insider Preview builds), launch an app such as Alarms and Clock (be sure
> it
> is the latest version).
> 2. In case of Alarms and Clock, go to Stopwatch tab and start and stop
> the stopwatch.
> 3. For Calculator, do some calculations.
>
>
>
> Expected: screen reader announces messages such as "Stopwatch stopped" in
> Alarms and Clock and "display is something" in Calculator.
>
> Actual: only Narrator announces such texts.
>
> Cause: other screen readers do not track UIA notification event. This is
> due
> to the fact that Version 1709 introduces this event, which requires
> tracking
> a newer UIA interface.
>
>
>
> Known solutions/mitigations/workarounds and impact:
>
>
>
> * Narrator: green light/okay; works out of the box (requires Version
> 1709 and later).
> * JAWS for Windows: red light/major; no support (version 2018.1802.78
> did not solve the Calculator display text problem, for instance).
> * NonVisual Desktop Access: yellow light/solution being tested
> (through an add-on update).
>
>
>
> This advisory will be closed once major screen readers (in addition to the
> three listed above) provides at least a basic solution.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>








Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes the classic of course is Printers, sold at a loss then flogging the supplies for them at a big mark up.
Smart phones ar going much the same way now. I noticed Samsung used the word Reimagined 13 times in their recent S9 launch.#
Bah humbug!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803


A lot of businesses are slow to upgrade because their system works and they don't want the cost of training and of replacing a system that works well. It's not just in the UK. Microsoft is in the position, starting with XP, that they built reasonably mature operating systems and, aside from security and convenience features, it has to do what is done in mature capitalist markets, that is create a desire for things people didn't know they wanted before. So the emphasis in Windows 10 is to get people to pay for and use all sorts of Microsoft services and to drive payments to Bing, by making it the default search engine, etc. But a lot of people, businesses and institutions won't upgrade despite the new features and the services that are more convenient to use with Windows 10 or are not available in earlier versions of Windows.

Looking back, this sort of thing had to happen. It happens in all mature markets. Once you stop selling necessities, or really useful fundamental services, you start selling increasingly less central services and products and you try to develop a demand for them. That's why Windows 10 is free. It's not the operating system that is the point. It's getting it on as many machines as possible. It's as though cars somehow became so cheap that they could be given away and more money could be made from selling services related to the car.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 4:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803


Hmm well it just feels hard to learn its keys and then you do it feels very
sluggish to me, but then I only get to use it when I am on windows 10, and
so I'm not exposed to it most of the time. Most people I know are on windows
7 and that includes most of the people who work for the NHS in the UK as
well, so I think although here we may suggest that windows ten is the way
all should go, many companies and organisations are reluctant to break what
is working for them and blind people who work for them will have to use what
they have.
Like XP which is still in use a lot in the UK, I think the hype over
windows 10 is much over the top. I think that while they keep moving
goalposts about many admins will steer clear in case it mangles already
running systems.

However that is my own opinion, and I'm not entering into a my screenreader
is better than yours thread on here.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "mattias" <mjonsson1986@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers
mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from
apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803


Narrator to slow and clunky?
What do you meen with clunky?
Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

Från: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Skickat: den 24 februari 2018 10:50
Till: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Ämne: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers
mustsupport uIA notification event in order to announce various things from
apps#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803

It seems to me like Microsoft are slipping back into the ways that got them
into the brown sticky stuff with edge. Ie changing things and putting out
releases with no advisory to the screenreader community of a big change in
the system. we have seen it in Skype recently too. Somebody over there at
Microsoft needs to get a better grip on changes that affect access software
and not merely assume narrator is all that matters.

Narrator is still too slow and clunky to use every day.
I was going to get a windows 10 machine but until they stop messing about
I'm sorely tempted to stay old fashioned!

Have they lost that Jenny whats her name from the accessibility management
who seemed to do a good job before?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <@joslee>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 5:46 PM
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers must
support uIA notification event in order to announce various things from apps
#ADVISORY #WinTen1709 #WinTen1803


Hi all,



First, apologies for mentioning competition, but I felt it is best to do
so
given the overall context. Second, the advisory is deemed major (to severe
for some cases) and is applicable for people running Windows 10 Fall
Creators Update and beyond. The source of this advisory is a Win10 forum
hosted on Groups.IO at https://win10.groups.io/g/win10.



Thanks.



From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 9:42 AM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Version 1709 and beyond: screen readers must support uIA
notification event in order to announce various things from apps #ADVISORY
#WinTen1709 #WinTen1803



Hi everyone,



The following advisory is considered major in that it impacts all known
screen readers )except for one or two; feel free to pass this on, although
please do cite where you've got the advisory from):



Problem: notifications from apps such as Calculator, Microsoft Store and
others are not announced by screen readers.



Background: in Windows 10 Version 1709 and later, if apps are written
correctly, they can send notification texts to be announced by screen
readers. A UIA client such as a screen reader must be able to catch this
in
order to announce certain notifications, including Calculator's display
window, app update status in Microsoft Store, various notifications from
Edge, Alarms and Clock and other apps.



Steps to reproduce:



1. While using Windows 10 Version 1709 or later (including current
Insider Preview builds), launch an app such as Alarms and Clock (be sure
it
is the latest version).
2. In case of Alarms and Clock, go to Stopwatch tab and start and stop
the stopwatch.
3. For Calculator, do some calculations.



Expected: screen reader announces messages such as "Stopwatch stopped" in
Alarms and Clock and "display is something" in Calculator.

Actual: only Narrator announces such texts.

Cause: other screen readers do not track UIA notification event. This is
due
to the fact that Version 1709 introduces this event, which requires
tracking
a newer UIA interface.



Known solutions/mitigations/workarounds and impact:



* Narrator: green light/okay; works out of the box (requires Version
1709 and later).
* JAWS for Windows: red light/major; no support (version 2018.1802.78
did not solve the Calculator display text problem, for instance).
* NonVisual Desktop Access: yellow light/solution being tested
(through an add-on update).



This advisory will be closed once major screen readers (in addition to the
three listed above) provides at least a basic solution.



Cheers,

Joseph