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willmac@lantic.net
 

Thanks for the input Chris.
 
Rgs,
 
William
 

------ Original Message ------
From: "Chris Mullins" <cjmullins29@...>
Sent: 2016/05/17 2:39:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Hi William

Glad to see you are getting to grips with NVDA but I thought a little more explanation of the capslock feature described by Gene would be of interest to you.  In explaining how to enter the NVDA menu and set the capslock checkbox, Gene said to press Insert + n to display the NVDA menu.  Having set the checkbox and saved the settings, the Capslock key now works the same as the Insert key for the purpose of entering NVDA commands, as it is now an NVDA modifier key.  This is great for touch typists as you now have an NVDA modifier key either side of the keyboard, so for example you could now use the Capslock + n combination to open the NVDA menu.  Pressing the key twice quickly enables the Capslock key to perform its usual function.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of willmac@...
Sent: 17 May 2016 09:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Thanks Gene.  This exactly what I want. An action to turn CAPS LOCK on or off to allow me to type text with Caps Lock off and after wards putting CAP LOCK on again.

 Thank you.

 

William

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

Sent: 2016/05/16 5:47:35 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

It sounds as though you are doing better in working with web pages.  That's good. 

 

I'm not sure what you want to do.  If you want to disable the caps lock key so that pressing it does nothing, that is not an NVDA setting.  But you can set NVDA so that the caps lock has to be pressed twice quickly to keep it from turning on or off. 

 

Issue the command insert n.  You can use either insert.

Down arrow to preferences.  Press enter.

Down arrow to keyboard settings.

Press enter.

Tab to the check box that says some thing like use caps lock as modifier.

Press the space bar to check the check box, then press enter.

You are now back where you started.  The dialog has closed.

Now issue the command insert control c to save the setting permanently.  You will hear something like configuration saved.  This will save all your current settings so be sure you haven't changed anything else that you don't want changed permanently. 

 

Gene

 

 

From: willmac@...

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 9:45 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

 

Hi Gene,

 

At last I seem to have gone a stage further. You will not believe the effort I put into this.

 

As far as I can ascertain, I followed your tutorial faithfully.  What I did NOT do was give the keystroke "down arrow" time to work through the various options before it started reading.

 

Thank you for your patience and help.

Regards.

William.

PS. Is there a shortcut key to turn off Caps Lock while using NVDA

 

 

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

Sent: 2016/05/13 6:38:08 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

This is like a very short tutorial.  Trying what I describe may help you understand and work with what we have been discussing.

 

Let's use this very nonstandard web page to get to a much more typical one.  Open the page, make sure you are at the top with the command control home.

Now tab to the first story.  The first news story is:

Solidarity launches class action against GEPF

Follow that link by pressing enter.

You will be taken to the page with the story.  Starting at the top of the page, press h.  That will move you to a heading and as you continue to press it, you will be moved to other headings.  The heading that is the title of the story is where the article begins.  If you start reading from there by down arrowing or by using the read to end command, you will start hearing the article.  If you stop reading and press h two or three more times, you will see a heading that says your next story.  There will be a link to the next story either above or below the heading.  A heading is written using a different format to draw the reader's eye to the text of the heading.  You don't do anything with a heading except read it.  You would expect the link to be below the heading since the heading is not a link.  And if you down arrow, you will find the link.  You may find on some sites, that you have to up arrow, but usually, if the heading is not the link, you would down arrow. 

 

Gene

From: Gene

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 10:16 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

This message is long but I'm not sure the material could have been adequately covered in a shorter message.

 

The site you are discussing is not a typical Internet site. 

First a comment or two about structures in general.  You don't open headings.  You move to them.  You follow links by pressing enter on them.  But the site you are working with has nothing but links.  That is very nonstandard.  Go to the page you asked about.  Either start reading or if you just want to see links on this page, start tabbing.  Follow links by pressing enter.  If you want to learn to work with the commands you are trying to work with, use a conventionally formatted site.  Lots of sites are more or less conventionally formatted.  But this site is so nonstandard that we can tell you how to work with this site but it is not representative of most other sites. 

 

Here is more information. 

 

On the page you gave a link for, most quick navigation keys will only give you messages such as no next heading or no next button, etc.  That's because there are none and wherever you are on the page, there are none below where you are.  The commands such as h move to the next heading below your current position.  On this page, no matter where you are, there are no headings below where you are.  There is nothing anywhere on the page but links and text. 

even at the top of the page moving down the entire page, there are none. 

 

All such commands, b for button, x for check box, etc. look for what they are supposed to look for moving down the page.  If they find what they are looking for, they move you to it.  If they don't find anything, you will stay where you are on the page.

 

I would suggest you get an NVDA tutorial and listen to sections you consider important.  A very well thought of tutorial is available here:

If you look through the page, you will see how it is organized and you will get an idea of what you want to listen to.  Some people learn better using written material but many people prefer tutorials and if you do, this is a good one.

 

As far as how the keys work in general, I don't know how many sites you've tried them on.  If you go to a more or less standard site, you should get responses from many of the keys. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

From: willmac@...

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 9:01 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Hi Gene & Brian.

 

First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.

I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.

I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.

 

That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.

I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.

 

Regards,

William

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>

Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 

   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    

 


Pete <emac00@...>
 

 
  Hi  William 
  use the 't' to navigate by table
  the first press of 't' takes you to the date 
  The second press of 't'  takes you to the news section and nvda says blank. 
  If you press up arrow at that time you will here news and pressing down arrow nvda says the name of the first article in the section. 
  I don't know more than that I haven't explored the page more than that. 
  Good luck
  Pete 


On 5/13/2016 11:38 AM, Chris Mullins wrote:

William

The problem is that the screen reader, be it NVDA, Jaws or anything else can only be used to navigate a web page using shortcut keystrokes provided the web page in question is marked up using the html elementse those keystrokes require to move focus around the screen.  The page you are referring to has no heading mark-up which is why the h command will not work  The only available mark-up elements appear to be links and paragraphs which is why only k an p commands work.  These may or may not be useful to you in finding where each newsletter item starts, so you may have to do a lot of line by line reading using the arrow keys to find the bits you want.     

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of willmac@...
Sent: 13 May 2016 15:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Hi Gene & Brian.

 

First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.

I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.

I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.

 

That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.

I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.

 

Regards,

William

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>

Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 

   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    

 



Chris Mullins
 

Hi William

Glad to see you are getting to grips with NVDA but I thought a little more explanation of the capslock feature described by Gene would be of interest to you.  In explaining how to enter the NVDA menu and set the capslock checkbox, Gene said to press Insert + n to display the NVDA menu.  Having set the checkbox and saved the settings, the Capslock key now works the same as the Insert key for the purpose of entering NVDA commands, as it is now an NVDA modifier key.  This is great for touch typists as you now have an NVDA modifier key either side of the keyboard, so for example you could now use the Capslock + n combination to open the NVDA menu.  Pressing the key twice quickly enables the Capslock key to perform its usual function.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of willmac@...
Sent: 17 May 2016 09:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Thanks Gene.  This exactly what I want. An action to turn CAPS LOCK on or off to allow me to type text with Caps Lock off and after wards putting CAP LOCK on again.

 Thank you.

 

William

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

Sent: 2016/05/16 5:47:35 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

It sounds as though you are doing better in working with web pages.  That's good. 

 

I'm not sure what you want to do.  If you want to disable the caps lock key so that pressing it does nothing, that is not an NVDA setting.  But you can set NVDA so that the caps lock has to be pressed twice quickly to keep it from turning on or off. 

 

Issue the command insert n.  You can use either insert.

Down arrow to preferences.  Press enter.

Down arrow to keyboard settings.

Press enter.

Tab to the check box that says some thing like use caps lock as modifier.

Press the space bar to check the check box, then press enter.

You are now back where you started.  The dialog has closed.

Now issue the command insert control c to save the setting permanently.  You will hear something like configuration saved.  This will save all your current settings so be sure you haven't changed anything else that you don't want changed permanently. 

 

Gene

 

 

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 9:45 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

 

Hi Gene,

 

At last I seem to have gone a stage further. You will not believe the effort I put into this.

 

As far as I can ascertain, I followed your tutorial faithfully.  What I did NOT do was give the keystroke "down arrow" time to work through the various options before it started reading.

 

Thank you for your patience and help.

Regards.

William.

PS. Is there a shortcut key to turn off Caps Lock while using NVDA

 

 

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

Sent: 2016/05/13 6:38:08 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

This is like a very short tutorial.  Trying what I describe may help you understand and work with what we have been discussing.

 

Let's use this very nonstandard web page to get to a much more typical one.  Open the page, make sure you are at the top with the command control home.

Now tab to the first story.  The first news story is:

Solidarity launches class action against GEPF

Follow that link by pressing enter.

You will be taken to the page with the story.  Starting at the top of the page, press h.  That will move you to a heading and as you continue to press it, you will be moved to other headings.  The heading that is the title of the story is where the article begins.  If you start reading from there by down arrowing or by using the read to end command, you will start hearing the article.  If you stop reading and press h two or three more times, you will see a heading that says your next story.  There will be a link to the next story either above or below the heading.  A heading is written using a different format to draw the reader's eye to the text of the heading.  You don't do anything with a heading except read it.  You would expect the link to be below the heading since the heading is not a link.  And if you down arrow, you will find the link.  You may find on some sites, that you have to up arrow, but usually, if the heading is not the link, you would down arrow. 

 

Gene

From: Gene

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 10:16 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

This message is long but I'm not sure the material could have been adequately covered in a shorter message.

 

The site you are discussing is not a typical Internet site. 

First a comment or two about structures in general.  You don't open headings.  You move to them.  You follow links by pressing enter on them.  But the site you are working with has nothing but links.  That is very nonstandard.  Go to the page you asked about.  Either start reading or if you just want to see links on this page, start tabbing.  Follow links by pressing enter.  If you want to learn to work with the commands you are trying to work with, use a conventionally formatted site.  Lots of sites are more or less conventionally formatted.  But this site is so nonstandard that we can tell you how to work with this site but it is not representative of most other sites. 

 

Here is more information. 

 

On the page you gave a link for, most quick navigation keys will only give you messages such as no next heading or no next button, etc.  That's because there are none and wherever you are on the page, there are none below where you are.  The commands such as h move to the next heading below your current position.  On this page, no matter where you are, there are no headings below where you are.  There is nothing anywhere on the page but links and text. 

even at the top of the page moving down the entire page, there are none. 

 

All such commands, b for button, x for check box, etc. look for what they are supposed to look for moving down the page.  If they find what they are looking for, they move you to it.  If they don't find anything, you will stay where you are on the page.

 

I would suggest you get an NVDA tutorial and listen to sections you consider important.  A very well thought of tutorial is available here:

If you look through the page, you will see how it is organized and you will get an idea of what you want to listen to.  Some people learn better using written material but many people prefer tutorials and if you do, this is a good one.

 

As far as how the keys work in general, I don't know how many sites you've tried them on.  If you go to a more or less standard site, you should get responses from many of the keys. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 9:01 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Hi Gene & Brian.

 

First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.

I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.

I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.

 

That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.

I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.

 

Regards,

William

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>

Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 

   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    

 


willmac@lantic.net
 

Thanks Gene.  This exactly what I want. An action to turn CAPS LOCK on or off to allow me to type text with Caps Lock off and after wards putting CAP LOCK on again.
 Thank you.
 
William
 

------ Original Message ------
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
Sent: 2016/05/16 5:47:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
It sounds as though you are doing better in working with web pages.  That's good. 
 
I'm not sure what you want to do.  If you want to disable the caps lock key so that pressing it does nothing, that is not an NVDA setting.  But you can set NVDA so that the caps lock has to be pressed twice quickly to keep it from turning on or off. 
 
Issue the command insert n.  You can use either insert.
Down arrow to preferences.  Press enter.
Down arrow to keyboard settings.
Press enter.
Tab to the check box that says some thing like use caps lock as modifier.
Press the space bar to check the check box, then press enter.
You are now back where you started.  The dialog has closed.
Now issue the command insert control c to save the setting permanently.  You will hear something like configuration saved.  This will save all your current settings so be sure you haven't changed anything else that you don't want changed permanently. 
 
Gene
 

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 
Hi Gene,
 
At last I seem to have gone a stage further. You will not believe the effort I put into this.
 
As far as I can ascertain, I followed your tutorial faithfully.  What I did NOT do was give the keystroke "down arrow" time to work through the various options before it started reading.
 
Thank you for your patience and help.
Regards.
William.
PS. Is there a shortcut key to turn off Caps Lock while using NVDA
 
 
 
 
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
Sent: 2016/05/13 6:38:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
This is like a very short tutorial.  Trying what I describe may help you understand and work with what we have been discussing.
 
Let's use this very nonstandard web page to get to a much more typical one.  Open the page, make sure you are at the top with the command control home.
Now tab to the first story.  The first news story is:
Solidarity launches class action against GEPF
Follow that link by pressing enter.
You will be taken to the page with the story.  Starting at the top of the page, press h.  That will move you to a heading and as you continue to press it, you will be moved to other headings.  The heading that is the title of the story is where the article begins.  If you start reading from there by down arrowing or by using the read to end command, you will start hearing the article.  If you stop reading and press h two or three more times, you will see a heading that says your next story.  There will be a link to the next story either above or below the heading.  A heading is written using a different format to draw the reader's eye to the text of the heading.  You don't do anything with a heading except read it.  You would expect the link to be below the heading since the heading is not a link.  And if you down arrow, you will find the link.  You may find on some sites, that you have to up arrow, but usually, if the heading is not the link, you would down arrow. 
 
Gene
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

This message is long but I'm not sure the material could have been adequately covered in a shorter message.
 
The site you are discussing is not a typical Internet site. 
First a comment or two about structures in general.  You don't open headings.  You move to them.  You follow links by pressing enter on them.  But the site you are working with has nothing but links.  That is very nonstandard.  Go to the page you asked about.  Either start reading or if you just want to see links on this page, start tabbing.  Follow links by pressing enter.  If you want to learn to work with the commands you are trying to work with, use a conventionally formatted site.  Lots of sites are more or less conventionally formatted.  But this site is so nonstandard that we can tell you how to work with this site but it is not representative of most other sites. 
 
Here is more information. 
 
On the page you gave a link for, most quick navigation keys will only give you messages such as no next heading or no next button, etc.  That's because there are none and wherever you are on the page, there are none below where you are.  The commands such as h move to the next heading below your current position.  On this page, no matter where you are, there are no headings below where you are.  There is nothing anywhere on the page but links and text. 
even at the top of the page moving down the entire page, there are none. 
 
All such commands, b for button, x for check box, etc. look for what they are supposed to look for moving down the page.  If they find what they are looking for, they move you to it.  If they don't find anything, you will stay where you are on the page.
 
I would suggest you get an NVDA tutorial and listen to sections you consider important.  A very well thought of tutorial is available here:
If you look through the page, you will see how it is organized and you will get an idea of what you want to listen to.  Some people learn better using written material but many people prefer tutorials and if you do, this is a good one.
 
As far as how the keys work in general, I don't know how many sites you've tried them on.  If you go to a more or less standard site, you should get responses from many of the keys. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Hi Gene & Brian.
 
First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.
I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.
I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.
 
That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.
I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.
 
Regards,

William
 
 
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Gene
 

It sounds as though you are doing better in working with web pages.  That's good. 
 
I'm not sure what you want to do.  If you want to disable the caps lock key so that pressing it does nothing, that is not an NVDA setting.  But you can set NVDA so that the caps lock has to be pressed twice quickly to keep it from turning on or off. 
 
Issue the command insert n.  You can use either insert.
Down arrow to preferences.  Press enter.
Down arrow to keyboard settings.
Press enter.
Tab to the check box that says some thing like use caps lock as modifier.
Press the space bar to check the check box, then press enter.
You are now back where you started.  The dialog has closed.
Now issue the command insert control c to save the setting permanently.  You will hear something like configuration saved.  This will save all your current settings so be sure you haven't changed anything else that you don't want changed permanently. 
 
Gene
 

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 
Hi Gene,
 
At last I seem to have gone a stage further. You will not believe the effort I put into this.
 
As far as I can ascertain, I followed your tutorial faithfully.  What I did NOT do was give the keystroke "down arrow" time to work through the various options before it started reading.
 
Thank you for your patience and help.
Regards.
William.
PS. Is there a shortcut key to turn off Caps Lock while using NVDA
 
 
 
 
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
Sent: 2016/05/13 6:38:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
This is like a very short tutorial.  Trying what I describe may help you understand and work with what we have been discussing.
 
Let's use this very nonstandard web page to get to a much more typical one.  Open the page, make sure you are at the top with the command control home.
Now tab to the first story.  The first news story is:
Solidarity launches class action against GEPF
Follow that link by pressing enter.
You will be taken to the page with the story.  Starting at the top of the page, press h.  That will move you to a heading and as you continue to press it, you will be moved to other headings.  The heading that is the title of the story is where the article begins.  If you start reading from there by down arrowing or by using the read to end command, you will start hearing the article.  If you stop reading and press h two or three more times, you will see a heading that says your next story.  There will be a link to the next story either above or below the heading.  A heading is written using a different format to draw the reader's eye to the text of the heading.  You don't do anything with a heading except read it.  You would expect the link to be below the heading since the heading is not a link.  And if you down arrow, you will find the link.  You may find on some sites, that you have to up arrow, but usually, if the heading is not the link, you would down arrow. 
 
Gene
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

This message is long but I'm not sure the material could have been adequately covered in a shorter message.
 
The site you are discussing is not a typical Internet site. 
First a comment or two about structures in general.  You don't open headings.  You move to them.  You follow links by pressing enter on them.  But the site you are working with has nothing but links.  That is very nonstandard.  Go to the page you asked about.  Either start reading or if you just want to see links on this page, start tabbing.  Follow links by pressing enter.  If you want to learn to work with the commands you are trying to work with, use a conventionally formatted site.  Lots of sites are more or less conventionally formatted.  But this site is so nonstandard that we can tell you how to work with this site but it is not representative of most other sites. 
 
Here is more information. 
 
On the page you gave a link for, most quick navigation keys will only give you messages such as no next heading or no next button, etc.  That's because there are none and wherever you are on the page, there are none below where you are.  The commands such as h move to the next heading below your current position.  On this page, no matter where you are, there are no headings below where you are.  There is nothing anywhere on the page but links and text. 
even at the top of the page moving down the entire page, there are none. 
 
All such commands, b for button, x for check box, etc. look for what they are supposed to look for moving down the page.  If they find what they are looking for, they move you to it.  If they don't find anything, you will stay where you are on the page.
 
I would suggest you get an NVDA tutorial and listen to sections you consider important.  A very well thought of tutorial is available here:
If you look through the page, you will see how it is organized and you will get an idea of what you want to listen to.  Some people learn better using written material but many people prefer tutorials and if you do, this is a good one.
 
As far as how the keys work in general, I don't know how many sites you've tried them on.  If you go to a more or less standard site, you should get responses from many of the keys. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Hi Gene & Brian.
 
First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.
I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.
I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.
 
That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.
I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.
 
Regards,

William
 
 
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



willmac@lantic.net
 

 
Hi Gene,
 
At last I seem to have gone a stage further. You will not believe the effort I put into this.
 
As far as I can ascertain, I followed your tutorial faithfully.  What I did NOT do was give the keystroke "down arrow" time to work through the various options before it started reading.
 
Thank you for your patience and help.
Regards.
William.
PS. Is there a shortcut key to turn off Caps Lock while using NVDA
 
 
 
 
 

------ Original Message ------
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
Sent: 2016/05/13 6:38:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
This is like a very short tutorial.  Trying what I describe may help you understand and work with what we have been discussing.
 
Let's use this very nonstandard web page to get to a much more typical one.  Open the page, make sure you are at the top with the command control home.
Now tab to the first story.  The first news story is:
Solidarity launches class action against GEPF
Follow that link by pressing enter.
You will be taken to the page with the story.  Starting at the top of the page, press h.  That will move you to a heading and as you continue to press it, you will be moved to other headings.  The heading that is the title of the story is where the article begins.  If you start reading from there by down arrowing or by using the read to end command, you will start hearing the article.  If you stop reading and press h two or three more times, you will see a heading that says your next story.  There will be a link to the next story either above or below the heading.  A heading is written using a different format to draw the reader's eye to the text of the heading.  You don't do anything with a heading except read it.  You would expect the link to be below the heading since the heading is not a link.  And if you down arrow, you will find the link.  You may find on some sites, that you have to up arrow, but usually, if the heading is not the link, you would down arrow. 
 
Gene
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

This message is long but I'm not sure the material could have been adequately covered in a shorter message.
 
The site you are discussing is not a typical Internet site. 
First a comment or two about structures in general.  You don't open headings.  You move to them.  You follow links by pressing enter on them.  But the site you are working with has nothing but links.  That is very nonstandard.  Go to the page you asked about.  Either start reading or if you just want to see links on this page, start tabbing.  Follow links by pressing enter.  If you want to learn to work with the commands you are trying to work with, use a conventionally formatted site.  Lots of sites are more or less conventionally formatted.  But this site is so nonstandard that we can tell you how to work with this site but it is not representative of most other sites. 
 
Here is more information. 
 
On the page you gave a link for, most quick navigation keys will only give you messages such as no next heading or no next button, etc.  That's because there are none and wherever you are on the page, there are none below where you are.  The commands such as h move to the next heading below your current position.  On this page, no matter where you are, there are no headings below where you are.  There is nothing anywhere on the page but links and text. 
even at the top of the page moving down the entire page, there are none. 
 
All such commands, b for button, x for check box, etc. look for what they are supposed to look for moving down the page.  If they find what they are looking for, they move you to it.  If they don't find anything, you will stay where you are on the page.
 
I would suggest you get an NVDA tutorial and listen to sections you consider important.  A very well thought of tutorial is available here:
If you look through the page, you will see how it is organized and you will get an idea of what you want to listen to.  Some people learn better using written material but many people prefer tutorials and if you do, this is a good one.
 
As far as how the keys work in general, I don't know how many sites you've tried them on.  If you go to a more or less standard site, you should get responses from many of the keys. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Hi Gene & Brian.
 
First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.
I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.
I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.
 
That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.
I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.
 
Regards,

William
 
 
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Gene
 

This is like a very short tutorial.  Trying what I describe may help you understand and work with what we have been discussing.
 
Let's use this very nonstandard web page to get to a much more typical one.  Open the page, make sure you are at the top with the command control home.
Now tab to the first story.  The first news story is:
Solidarity launches class action against GEPF
Follow that link by pressing enter.
You will be taken to the page with the story.  Starting at the top of the page, press h.  That will move you to a heading and as you continue to press it, you will be moved to other headings.  The heading that is the title of the story is where the article begins.  If you start reading from there by down arrowing or by using the read to end command, you will start hearing the article.  If you stop reading and press h two or three more times, you will see a heading that says your next story.  There will be a link to the next story either above or below the heading.  A heading is written using a different format to draw the reader's eye to the text of the heading.  You don't do anything with a heading except read it.  You would expect the link to be below the heading since the heading is not a link.  And if you down arrow, you will find the link.  You may find on some sites, that you have to up arrow, but usually, if the heading is not the link, you would down arrow. 
 
Gene

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

This message is long but I'm not sure the material could have been adequately covered in a shorter message.
 
The site you are discussing is not a typical Internet site. 
First a comment or two about structures in general.  You don't open headings.  You move to them.  You follow links by pressing enter on them.  But the site you are working with has nothing but links.  That is very nonstandard.  Go to the page you asked about.  Either start reading or if you just want to see links on this page, start tabbing.  Follow links by pressing enter.  If you want to learn to work with the commands you are trying to work with, use a conventionally formatted site.  Lots of sites are more or less conventionally formatted.  But this site is so nonstandard that we can tell you how to work with this site but it is not representative of most other sites. 
 
Here is more information. 
 
On the page you gave a link for, most quick navigation keys will only give you messages such as no next heading or no next button, etc.  That's because there are none and wherever you are on the page, there are none below where you are.  The commands such as h move to the next heading below your current position.  On this page, no matter where you are, there are no headings below where you are.  There is nothing anywhere on the page but links and text. 
even at the top of the page moving down the entire page, there are none. 
 
All such commands, b for button, x for check box, etc. look for what they are supposed to look for moving down the page.  If they find what they are looking for, they move you to it.  If they don't find anything, you will stay where you are on the page.
 
I would suggest you get an NVDA tutorial and listen to sections you consider important.  A very well thought of tutorial is available here:
If you look through the page, you will see how it is organized and you will get an idea of what you want to listen to.  Some people learn better using written material but many people prefer tutorials and if you do, this is a good one.
 
As far as how the keys work in general, I don't know how many sites you've tried them on.  If you go to a more or less standard site, you should get responses from many of the keys. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Hi Gene & Brian.
 
First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.
I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.
I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.
 
That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.
I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.
 
Regards,

William
 
 
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Chris Mullins
 

William

The problem is that the screen reader, be it NVDA, Jaws or anything else can only be used to navigate a web page using shortcut keystrokes provided the web page in question is marked up using the html elementse those keystrokes require to move focus around the screen.  The page you are referring to has no heading mark-up which is why the h command will not work  The only available mark-up elements appear to be links and paragraphs which is why only k an p commands work.  These may or may not be useful to you in finding where each newsletter item starts, so you may have to do a lot of line by line reading using the arrow keys to find the bits you want.     

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of willmac@...
Sent: 13 May 2016 15:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Hi Gene & Brian.

 

First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.

I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.

I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.

 

That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.

I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.

 

Regards,

William

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>

Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 

   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    

 


Gene
 

This message is long but I'm not sure the material could have been adequately covered in a shorter message.
 
The site you are discussing is not a typical Internet site. 
First a comment or two about structures in general.  You don't open headings.  You move to them.  You follow links by pressing enter on them.  But the site you are working with has nothing but links.  That is very nonstandard.  Go to the page you asked about.  Either start reading or if you just want to see links on this page, start tabbing.  Follow links by pressing enter.  If you want to learn to work with the commands you are trying to work with, use a conventionally formatted site.  Lots of sites are more or less conventionally formatted.  But this site is so nonstandard that we can tell you how to work with this site but it is not representative of most other sites. 
 
Here is more information. 
 
On the page you gave a link for, most quick navigation keys will only give you messages such as no next heading or no next button, etc.  That's because there are none and wherever you are on the page, there are none below where you are.  The commands such as h move to the next heading below your current position.  On this page, no matter where you are, there are no headings below where you are.  There is nothing anywhere on the page but links and text. 
even at the top of the page moving down the entire page, there are none. 
 
All such commands, b for button, x for check box, etc. look for what they are supposed to look for moving down the page.  If they find what they are looking for, they move you to it.  If they don't find anything, you will stay where you are on the page.
 
I would suggest you get an NVDA tutorial and listen to sections you consider important.  A very well thought of tutorial is available here:
If you look through the page, you will see how it is organized and you will get an idea of what you want to listen to.  Some people learn better using written material but many people prefer tutorials and if you do, this is a good one.
 
As far as how the keys work in general, I don't know how many sites you've tried them on.  If you go to a more or less standard site, you should get responses from many of the keys. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Hi Gene & Brian.
 
First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.
I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.
I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.
 
That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.
I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.
 
Regards,

William
 
 
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



willmac@lantic.net
 

Hi Gene & Brian.
 
First of all in response to an earlier reference from Gene I must state categorically that I am a complete novice as regards NVDA.
I have heard the term "there are more than one way to skin a cat".  Well I am present not able to skin any cat.
I have read thru quite a bit of the short cut keys and they do not react to the way I expect.
 
That is why i submitted my originally URL http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D which I list again. Gene went to a lot of trouble detailing certain key strokes. However en this led to all sort of results.
I am not all interested in any  k links. If at all possible would it not be possible to give me the simplest method,  At this stage I am only interested in opening the headings and would want the key strokes required to read such articles continuously to the end.  Is this possible?.
 
Regards,

William
 
 
 

------ Original Message ------
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
Sent: 2016/05/12 6:15:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

           When the format of a given specific webpage is known, and in this case it is known to be nothing more than a list of links to articles, I don't think it's a disservice to anyone who cannot see to state that fact and to tell them that for this particular page using an elements list is the way to go.

           I'm not trying to teach general principles here, but to help someone get through a very specific webpage, and its child pages.

           And, yes, that's my opinion when I have a specific case under discussion, not a "how would one best go about this in the general case of an unfamiliar page."  Even then I'd encourage someone to give the elements list a look to get a quick snapshot regarding what links, headers, or landmarks might or might not be present.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Patrick Le Baudour
 

Hi,

One that can be very useful to find content is P for paragraphs. Of course it can also be worthless on some sites, but here it does skip the heading part.

-- Patrick

Le 12/05/2016 à 18:26, Gene a écrit :
I would think that there is a more efficient way to find the first link
to a blog. Perhaps there is wording on the page immediately before the
first post that is reliably on the page whenever you load it. See my
previous message about the search command.

Gene


Gene
 

I am correct in my description.  I am seeing the page differently.  This may be because of browser settings I'm using or for other reasons.  But if two reliable people differ about the layout of something, it is not correct to assume that one or the other is wrong in the description.  They may be observing a different layout or format with neither being aware of the difference. 
 
Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene and Brian,

 

I have been keeping out of this discussion but watching each of your contributions with interest. I feel I must now correct you Gene. Here is the top half of the web page that results from the URL presented by William in his request for help:

 

----------Extract begins ----------

 

If you feel this email is unsolicited please report it to us.

Trouble viewing this email? View online

Friday 13 May 2016

FOLLOW US

Facebook

Twitter

Linked In

Ince Connect

 

Good morning, William McLachlan

NEWS >

 

----------Extract ends ----------

 

Facebook and Twitter are actually links on the page as I described in my message.

 

Please do not demand that others fail to read a message when you are, in fact, mistaken!

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for free now!

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Gene,

First, what follows here first is a general observation, but one triggered by this very thread.  It is unbelievably frustrating, and probably from both sides, when one person participates virtually entirely by e-mail while another virtually entirely by the web interface to groups.io.  Using the web interface allows you to see the entire thread on a single page and to go back and forth between original material and what you're posting.  That's how I can tell you definitively, and will repost the original message below, that Facebook is and was not in any way involved other than by being mentioned by a later poster.  It's also interesting how many, and you are not one of those, who either subscribe by individual message or digest are not reading what has already been posted before posting themselves in many cases.  Getting the same answer(s) hours, not minutes, apart clearly indicates that the posters of the repeat material have not bothered to take note that what they've offered has already been offered, and often more than once.  This makes for a really crappy online archive and a great deal more difficulty in searching the online archive and getting a more focused pool of results.

The original post was:

------------------------------------------------

Hi,

 

I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item.

 

 

Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.

 

Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this.

 

Regards,

William

------------------------------------------------

 

I have gone to said webpage and perused it via NVDA.  When it loads, if one hits NVDA Key+F7 there are only two links, "Report it" and "View Online" that appear in the elements list of links for this page (using Chrome or Firefox).  When I tried using K at one point the navigation bar links came into play before the articles.

In any case, this is the last comment I'll make on this particular thread on this particular webpage.  There is no one right way to approach this.  Using the NVDA search command is fine as is using the NVDA Elements list. Knowing how to come at things from multiple angles is never a bad thing.  Knowing that once you're on the actual article page that the Elements List with "Headers" selected can save you a bunch of jumping is a big time saver.

Brian
--
Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 

   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    

 


Gene
 

Perhaps you made the comments you did about list clutter because you think I am not well aware of previous posts because of how I read mail.  That is not true.  I did misinterpret what the message that mentioned Facebook said but that was a misinterpretation.  On the second point that may have prompted your general comments about list clutter and repetition, This has nothing to do with me not being aware of previous messages.  My results are completely different from yours.  How I read mail isn't the problem.  I see the page exactly as I see any standard web page except, of course, that no headings or controls are present.  The only things on the page are links and text.  All the links on the page show up in the links list, and using the skip links command twice skips me to just above the main content links on the page.  Whether using k or tabbing, I see the same links in the same order and in the links list as well.  Thus we have been discussing completely different renderings of the page for some reason.  And that may be the reason we are disagreeing about the most efficient way to navigate the page. 
 
I'm not sure what produces such different renderings.  I'd have to experiment with different browsers and settings to see if they may play any part in the differences.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

First, what follows here first is a general observation, but one triggered by this very thread.  It is unbelievably frustrating, and probably from both sides, when one person participates virtually entirely by e-mail while another virtually entirely by the web interface to groups.io.  Using the web interface allows you to see the entire thread on a single page and to go back and forth between original material and what you're posting.  That's how I can tell you definitively, and will repost the original message below, that Facebook is and was not in any way involved other than by being mentioned by a later poster.  It's also interesting how many, and you are not one of those, who either subscribe by individual message or digest are not reading what has already been posted before posting themselves in many cases.  Getting the same answer(s) hours, not minutes, apart clearly indicates that the posters of the repeat material have not bothered to take note that what they've offered has already been offered, and often more than once.  This makes for a really crappy online archive and a great deal more difficulty in searching the online archive and getting a more focused pool of results.

The original post was:

------------------------------------------------

Hi,
 
I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item.
 
 
Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.
 
Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this.
 
Regards,

William

------------------------------------------------


I have gone to said webpage and perused it via NVDA.  When it loads, if one hits NVDA Key+F7 there are only two links, "Report it" and "View Online" that appear in the elements list of links for this page (using Chrome or Firefox).  When I tried using K at one point the navigation bar links came into play before the articles.

In any case, this is the last comment I'll make on this particular thread on this particular webpage.  There is no one right way to approach this.  Using the NVDA search command is fine as is using the NVDA Elements list. Knowing how to come at things from multiple angles is never a bad thing.  Knowing that once you're on the actual article page that the Elements List with "Headers" selected can save you a bunch of jumping is a big time saver.

Brian
--
Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Gene and Brian,

 

I have been keeping out of this discussion but watching each of your contributions with interest. I feel I must now correct you Gene. Here is the top half of the web page that results from the URL presented by William in his request for help:

 

----------Extract begins ----------

 

If you feel this email is unsolicited please report it to us.

Trouble viewing this email? View online

Friday 13 May 2016

FOLLOW US

Facebook

Twitter

Linked In

Ince Connect

 

Good morning, William McLachlan

NEWS >

 

----------Extract ends ----------

 

Facebook and Twitter are actually links on the page as I described in my message.

 

Please do not demand that others fail to read a message when you are, in fact, mistaken!

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for free now!

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

 

Gene,

First, what follows here first is a general observation, but one triggered by this very thread.  It is unbelievably frustrating, and probably from both sides, when one person participates virtually entirely by e-mail while another virtually entirely by the web interface to groups.io.  Using the web interface allows you to see the entire thread on a single page and to go back and forth between original material and what you're posting.  That's how I can tell you definitively, and will repost the original message below, that Facebook is and was not in any way involved other than by being mentioned by a later poster.  It's also interesting how many, and you are not one of those, who either subscribe by individual message or digest are not reading what has already been posted before posting themselves in many cases.  Getting the same answer(s) hours, not minutes, apart clearly indicates that the posters of the repeat material have not bothered to take note that what they've offered has already been offered, and often more than once.  This makes for a really crappy online archive and a great deal more difficulty in searching the online archive and getting a more focused pool of results.

The original post was:

------------------------------------------------

Hi,

 

I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item.

 

 

Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.

 

Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this.

 

Regards,

William

------------------------------------------------

 

I have gone to said webpage and perused it via NVDA.  When it loads, if one hits NVDA Key+F7 there are only two links, "Report it" and "View Online" that appear in the elements list of links for this page (using Chrome or Firefox).  When I tried using K at one point the navigation bar links came into play before the articles.

In any case, this is the last comment I'll make on this particular thread on this particular webpage.  There is no one right way to approach this.  Using the NVDA search command is fine as is using the NVDA Elements list. Knowing how to come at things from multiple angles is never a bad thing.  Knowing that once you're on the actual article page that the Elements List with "Headers" selected can save you a bunch of jumping is a big time saver.

Brian
--
Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 

   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    

 


Kenny Dog <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi

When I looked it looks as though the links refer to a article. To go into any of the articles  when you hear NVDA say the articles name then link, then press the enter key. When it takes you to that page use the ctrl key + the home key to take you to the top of the page.
You can also use the up or down arrow keys to go linne by line. The previous email looks as mentioned a news letter that links to articles on a web page.

Are you using a desk top pc or a lap top? as the say all command might be different.
It is not really until you go into a article there might be a couple of extra single letter navigation keys, not really a good web page.

Gene nz


On 13-May-16 12:31 AM, willmac@... wrote:
Hi Gene,
 
Thanks. I will work on this and see how I manage. First attempts are a bit discouraging.
Am not getting same responses as you suggest.
Regards,
 
William
 
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...>
Sent: 2016/05/12 11:03:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation
Hi William

it does not look as though you have many single letter navigation keys you can use even in the news letter.

The letter k will take you to any links in the email. Where the links take you to another web page on the one or 2 I went to you could use the letter H to jump down by headings, k for links and g for graphics. If you are using a desktop pc the nvda key and the down arrow key will read out the page for you. If you are also new to browsing using the alt key + the left arrow key will take you back a page and the alt and right arrow key will take you forwards a page.

This is only if you have been to those pages first.

For other webpages you might be able to use the full list from the user manual this will change from website to website.

The part in the user manual is 6.1. Single Letter Navigation

Gene nz


On 12-May-16 8:18 PM, willmac@... wrote:
Hi,
 
I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item.
 
 
Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.
 
Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this.
 
Regards,

William

-- 
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net

-- 
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net


 

Gene,

First, what follows here first is a general observation, but one triggered by this very thread.  It is unbelievably frustrating, and probably from both sides, when one person participates virtually entirely by e-mail while another virtually entirely by the web interface to groups.io.  Using the web interface allows you to see the entire thread on a single page and to go back and forth between original material and what you're posting.  That's how I can tell you definitively, and will repost the original message below, that Facebook is and was not in any way involved other than by being mentioned by a later poster.  It's also interesting how many, and you are not one of those, who either subscribe by individual message or digest are not reading what has already been posted before posting themselves in many cases.  Getting the same answer(s) hours, not minutes, apart clearly indicates that the posters of the repeat material have not bothered to take note that what they've offered has already been offered, and often more than once.  This makes for a really crappy online archive and a great deal more difficulty in searching the online archive and getting a more focused pool of results.

The original post was:

------------------------------------------------

Hi,
 
I find it difficult move around in a web page and get NVDA to speak continually on any given item.
 
 
Witch is one of the pages I would like to navigate.
 
Would it be possible for some kind member to list the short-cut keys necessary to enable me to do this.
 
Regards,

William

------------------------------------------------


I have gone to said webpage and perused it via NVDA.  When it loads, if one hits NVDA Key+F7 there are only two links, "Report it" and "View Online" that appear in the elements list of links for this page (using Chrome or Firefox).  When I tried using K at one point the navigation bar links came into play before the articles.

In any case, this is the last comment I'll make on this particular thread on this particular webpage.  There is no one right way to approach this.  Using the NVDA search command is fine as is using the NVDA Elements list. Knowing how to come at things from multiple angles is never a bad thing.  Knowing that once you're on the actual article page that the Elements List with "Headers" selected can save you a bunch of jumping is a big time saver.

Brian
--
Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



Gene
 

I thought the person was discussing another site.  I was wrong.  I'd have to see his message again to see what was said.  There are references to Facebook and Twitter on the page and I think he was discussing those, not saying that they are not present. 
 
I don't know how you are looking at the page.  In NVDA, and I assume other screen-readers there are six links before material of interest begins.  It is more efficient to simply use the skip links command twice from the top of the page then to use k or tab to move to the first article of interest.  And experimenting with the skip blocks of links commands on different pages and comparing what it does to the headings commands shows that the skip blocks of links command may be a more efficient way to look for something than moving by headings on a number of pages. 
 
If you want to move through links once you are on the first item of interest, tab and k work well.  On some sites with other structures interspersed among links, k might be desired and on other sites, like this one, it doesn't matter because the page is just links and text between many of the links. 
 
Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

          This has nothing at all to do with Facebook.  Another poster mentioned that if you use the 'K' key to jump from link to link on a page you're likely to hear things such as Facebook, Twitter, etc.  In this particular case, even those "regulars" are not present.

           The link that was already pasted is:  http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D

           Since you now know that "Good Morning" is a text landmark it's not fair to try to use that as the "let me explore this page with nothing known" technique.  Try to do so and see how unlikely it is to find useful content via search unless you know the actual nature of the day's articles in this newsletter webpage.

Brian


 

Gene,

          This has nothing at all to do with Facebook.  Another poster mentioned that if you use the 'K' key to jump from link to link on a page you're likely to hear things such as Facebook, Twitter, etc.  In this particular case, even those "regulars" are not present.

           The link that was already pasted is:  http://t.digitalnewspaper.co.za/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40fjNSuVTurK7VzhMSOxyzIucXl%2BKsnii1IrXYxuvhTwY%3D

           Since you now know that "Good Morning" is a text landmark it's not fair to try to use that as the "let me explore this page with nothing known" technique.  Try to do so and see how unlikely it is to find useful content via search unless you know the actual nature of the day's articles in this newsletter webpage.

Brian


Gene
 

Since I don't use Facebook, I can't comment on the page and the efficiency of using the k command.  I said I thought there would be a more efficient method but I may be wrong.  But aside from that, it's worth pointing out that when searching, you don't have to type unwieldy strings.  Usually, typing four letters of a word that you are not likely to find often on the web page is sufficient.  At times, typing five lettters is needed to avoid too many results.  In this case, it's very unlikely that either good or morning would appear on the page before that text.  So typing either good or morn should be sufficient.
 
Gene
----- Original Message =----

Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Web Page navigation

Gene,

            We've been round this before, and I am 100% with you on teaching the search command.  The fact remains that I can actually see this web page and how strangely its laid out.  The only good text marker before the article links is "Good Morning."  Having to hit NVDA Key+CTRL+F and typing that in is, to me, far more work intensive than bringing up the elements list, which happens to have only 2 links on the list above the first article link.

            There are times when there is data available that makes a specific course of action, in my opinion, preferable to using general techniques.  This is one of those times.

            I am not always in instructor mode and am sometimes in "get the information as quickly as possible" mode.  It's clear that the general format of this webpage will remain static, and I picked what I believe to be the quickest way to access it on a daily basis.  This appears to be something the original poster wants to be able to access routinely, and I responded according to the stated need.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky

    



 

Gene,

            We've been round this before, and I am 100% with you on teaching the search command.  The fact remains that I can actually see this web page and how strangely its laid out.  The only good text marker before the article links is "Good Morning."  Having to hit NVDA Key+CTRL+F and typing that in is, to me, far more work intensive than bringing up the elements list, which happens to have only 2 links on the list above the first article link.

            There are times when there is data available that makes a specific course of action, in my opinion, preferable to using general techniques.  This is one of those times.

            I am not always in instructor mode and am sometimes in "get the information as quickly as possible" mode.  It's clear that the general format of this webpage will remain static, and I picked what I believe to be the quickest way to access it on a daily basis.  This appears to be something the original poster wants to be able to access routinely, and I responded according to the stated need.

Brian
-- 

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts. 
   ~ Henry Rosovsky