An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard


Gene
 

Every so often, when I look through the NVDA menu, I wonder why accelerator commands aren't given.  these are usually commands such as control and a character such as a letter or a number.  NVDA has lots of these commands, usually being combinations of control NVDA key and a character such as a letter or number.  The synthesizer dialog, for example, opens with NVDA key control s.  The voice settings dialog opens with control NVDA key v.  Why are none of these commands voiced when moving through the NVDA menu?  This is an important way for those who know enough about Windows basics to know what they mean to be made aware of such commands or to quickly review them without the cumbersome need to look in documentation.  It also is standard for menus to voice accelerator commands. 
 
Gene


 

Hi,

A few years ago there was a huge debate on the development channel regarding how we can do this. But, as of today, it is highly unlikely that it can be done due to vast paradigm shift that has just occurred on settings dialogs.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard

 

Every so often, when I look through the NVDA menu, I wonder why accelerator commands aren't given.  these are usually commands such as control and a character such as a letter or a number.  NVDA has lots of these commands, usually being combinations of control NVDA key and a character such as a letter or number.  The synthesizer dialog, for example, opens with NVDA key control s.  The voice settings dialog opens with control NVDA key v.  Why are none of these commands voiced when moving through the NVDA menu?  This is an important way for those who know enough about Windows basics to know what they mean to be made aware of such commands or to quickly review them without the cumbersome need to look in documentation.  It also is standard for menus to voice accelerator commands. 

 

Gene


Gene
 

If it is unlikely, is there some way new users should be alerted to look at the documentation for such commands?  Perhaps some sort of information should be included in the dialog that comes up when the program is run or maybe there is a different way.  I didn't know about such commands for quite awhile.  I learned how to use the menu in the documentation and I didn't check farther because I had no reason to think there was anything to look for.  I wonder how many people, such as I, who have a lot of experience with Windows programs assume that no such commands exist because they expect to see them somehow shown in the interface.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard

Hi,

A few years ago there was a huge debate on the development channel regarding how we can do this. But, as of today, it is highly unlikely that it can be done due to vast paradigm shift that has just occurred on settings dialogs.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard

 

Every so often, when I look through the NVDA menu, I wonder why accelerator commands aren't given.  these are usually commands such as control and a character such as a letter or a number.  NVDA has lots of these commands, usually being combinations of control NVDA key and a character such as a letter or number.  The synthesizer dialog, for example, opens with NVDA key control s.  The voice settings dialog opens with control NVDA key v.  Why are none of these commands voiced when moving through the NVDA menu?  This is an important way for those who know enough about Windows basics to know what they mean to be made aware of such commands or to quickly review them without the cumbersome need to look in documentation.  It also is standard for menus to voice accelerator commands. 

 

Gene


 

Hi,

Ideally, a link to the user guide might help from Welcome dialog.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard

 

If it is unlikely, is there some way new users should be alerted to look at the documentation for such commands?  Perhaps some sort of information should be included in the dialog that comes up when the program is run or maybe there is a different way.  I didn't know about such commands for quite awhile.  I learned how to use the menu in the documentation and I didn't check farther because I had no reason to think there was anything to look for.  I wonder how many people, such as I, who have a lot of experience with Windows programs assume that no such commands exist because they expect to see them somehow shown in the interface.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 10:25 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard

 

Hi,

A few years ago there was a huge debate on the development channel regarding how we can do this. But, as of today, it is highly unlikely that it can be done due to vast paradigm shift that has just occurred on settings dialogs.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard

 

Every so often, when I look through the NVDA menu, I wonder why accelerator commands aren't given.  these are usually commands such as control and a character such as a letter or a number.  NVDA has lots of these commands, usually being combinations of control NVDA key and a character such as a letter or number.  The synthesizer dialog, for example, opens with NVDA key control s.  The voice settings dialog opens with control NVDA key v.  Why are none of these commands voiced when moving through the NVDA menu?  This is an important way for those who know enough about Windows basics to know what they mean to be made aware of such commands or to quickly review them without the cumbersome need to look in documentation.  It also is standard for menus to voice accelerator commands. 

 

Gene


Brian's Mail list account
 

Is this not because they can be redefined?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:22 PM
Subject: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard


Every so often, when I look through the NVDA menu, I wonder why accelerator commands aren't given. these are usually commands such as control and a character such as a letter or a number. NVDA has lots of these commands, usually being combinations of control NVDA key and a character such as a letter or number. The synthesizer dialog, for example, opens with NVDA key control s. The voice settings dialog opens with control NVDA key v. Why are none of these commands voiced when moving through the NVDA menu? This is an important way for those who know enough about Windows basics to know what they mean to be made aware of such commands or to quickly review them without the cumbersome need to look in documentation. It also is standard for menus to voice accelerator commands.

Gene


Brian's Mail list account
 

I think i suggested this way back when we used to use Trac, but nobody thought it a good idea.
also not sure why it would make any difference how the property sheets were shown, you would simply go to a different tab by default with the command. I'm assuming that when in the property sheet that controls many others, you would have a short cut put in as part of the text, unless my earlier comment about redefinition was more valid now.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard


Hi,

Ideally, a link to the user guide might help from Welcome dialog.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard



If it is unlikely, is there some way new users should be alerted to look at
the documentation for such commands? Perhaps some sort of information
should be included in the dialog that comes up when the program is run or
maybe there is a different way. I didn't know about such commands for quite
awhile. I learned how to use the menu in the documentation and I didn't
check farther because I had no reason to think there was anything to look
for. I wonder how many people, such as I, who have a lot of experience with
Windows programs assume that no such commands exist because they expect to
see them somehow shown in the interface.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@...>

Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 10:25 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard



Hi,

A few years ago there was a huge debate on the development channel regarding
how we can do this. But, as of today, it is highly unlikely that it can be
done due to vast paradigm shift that has just occurred on settings dialogs.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard



Every so often, when I look through the NVDA menu, I wonder why accelerator
commands aren't given. these are usually commands such as control and a
character such as a letter or a number. NVDA has lots of these commands,
usually being combinations of control NVDA key and a character such as a
letter or number. The synthesizer dialog, for example, opens with NVDA key
control s. The voice settings dialog opens with control NVDA key v. Why
are none of these commands voiced when moving through the NVDA menu? This
is an important way for those who know enough about Windows basics to know
what they mean to be made aware of such commands or to quickly review them
without the cumbersome need to look in documentation. It also is standard
for menus to voice accelerator commands.



Gene




Quentin Christensen
 

Even in the new interface, I'm not against having it say something like "Keyboard 4 of 11, NVDA+control+k".  It's not necessarily the only way of getting to that page of the settings in future, but one issue currently is that if you have the new settings dialog open, and press NVDA+control+k, it will give an error because you already have a settings dialog open.  I would like to see it able to jump over to the new category without an error in this scenario and I think we would need to implement that before displaying the shortcut key more prominently.

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:47 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
I think i suggested this way back when we used to use Trac, but nobody thought it a good idea.
also not sure why it would make any difference how the property sheets were shown, you would simply go to a different tab by default with the command. I'm assuming that when in the  property sheet that controls many others, you would have a short cut put in as part of the text, unless my earlier comment about redefinition was more valid now.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard


Hi,

Ideally, a link to the user guide might help from Welcome dialog.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard



If it is unlikely, is there some way new users should be alerted to look at
the documentation for such commands?  Perhaps some sort of information
should be included in the dialog that comes up when the program is run or
maybe there is a different way.  I didn't know about such commands for quite
awhile.  I learned how to use the menu in the documentation and I didn't
check farther because I had no reason to think there was anything to look
for.  I wonder how many people, such as I, who have a lot of experience with
Windows programs assume that no such commands exist because they expect to
see them somehow shown in the interface.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 10:25 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard



Hi,

A few years ago there was a huge debate on the development channel regarding
how we can do this. But, as of today, it is highly unlikely that it can be
done due to vast paradigm shift that has just occurred on settings dialogs.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard



Every so often, when I look through the NVDA menu, I wonder why accelerator
commands aren't given.  these are usually commands such as control and a
character such as a letter or a number.  NVDA has lots of these commands,
usually being combinations of control NVDA key and a character such as a
letter or number.  The synthesizer dialog, for example, opens with NVDA key
control s.  The voice settings dialog opens with control NVDA key v.  Why
are none of these commands voiced when moving through the NVDA menu?  This
is an important way for those who know enough about Windows basics to know
what they mean to be made aware of such commands or to quickly review them
without the cumbersome need to look in documentation.  It also is standard
for menus to voice accelerator commands.



Gene











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Gene
 

That isn't the purpose of such commands.  Keys that use control and other characters are intended to be used in the main program Window.  Control o for open, control s, for save, control f for find are all accelerator keys.  they aren't technically short cut keys.  Shortcut  keys work in menus.  So alt to open the menu and then f is a short cut key to open the file menu.  Alt f then a is a sequence of short cut keys after alt.  F opens the file menu and a opens save as in the file menu.  Accelerator keys don't use the menus at all.  They do something from in the main program Window, such as control n opening a new message in an e-mnail program.
 
The point of having accelerator commands announced when you move through a menu is so that you can know that they exist by moving through the menu.  I haven't used the new interface but if it is using dialogs instead of menus now, I don't know if accelerator commands can be announced when you move through a dialog.  One of these days, when I get a new computer, I'll look at changes in NVDA that are recent.  But I don't want to install service pack 1 on my Windows 7 machine.  There is one program that, though I almost never use it, doesn't work with service pack 1 and I don't want to lose access to it.  I almost never use my Windows 7 machine online and it meets my needs well without upgrading.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard

Even in the new interface, I'm not against having it say something like "Keyboard 4 of 11, NVDA+control+k".  It's not necessarily the only way of getting to that page of the settings in future, but one issue currently is that if you have the new settings dialog open, and press NVDA+control+k, it will give an error because you already have a settings dialog open.  I would like to see it able to jump over to the new category without an error in this scenario and I think we would need to implement that before displaying the shortcut key more prominently.

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:47 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
I think i suggested this way back when we used to use Trac, but nobody thought it a good idea.
also not sure why it would make any difference how the property sheets were shown, you would simply go to a different tab by default with the command. I'm assuming that when in the  property sheet that controls many others, you would have a short cut put in as part of the text, unless my earlier comment about redefinition was more valid now.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard


Hi,

Ideally, a link to the user guide might help from Welcome dialog.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard



If it is unlikely, is there some way new users should be alerted to look at
the documentation for such commands?  Perhaps some sort of information
should be included in the dialog that comes up when the program is run or
maybe there is a different way.  I didn't know about such commands for quite
awhile.  I learned how to use the menu in the documentation and I didn't
check farther because I had no reason to think there was anything to look
for.  I wonder how many people, such as I, who have a lot of experience with
Windows programs assume that no such commands exist because they expect to
see them somehow shown in the interface.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 10:25 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard



Hi,

A few years ago there was a huge debate on the development channel regarding
how we can do this. But, as of today, it is highly unlikely that it can be
done due to vast paradigm shift that has just occurred on settings dialogs.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] An omission in the NVDA interface and it's not standard



Every so often, when I look through the NVDA menu, I wonder why accelerator
commands aren't given.  these are usually commands such as control and a
character such as a letter or a number.  NVDA has lots of these commands,
usually being combinations of control NVDA key and a character such as a
letter or number.  The synthesizer dialog, for example, opens with NVDA key
control s.  The voice settings dialog opens with control NVDA key v.  Why
are none of these commands voiced when moving through the NVDA menu?  This
is an important way for those who know enough about Windows basics to know
what they mean to be made aware of such commands or to quickly review them
without the cumbersome need to look in documentation.  It also is standard
for menus to voice accelerator commands.



Gene











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess