[nvda\] NVDA Devils advocate


Chris Shook <chris0309@...>
 

Hi,
To be fair, how many people tested the RC before NVDA 2016.2 came out? I know that this is the first RC I've tested. If we as a group do not test the RC and note any bugs that occur, then those bugs will show up in the next version of NVDA because the developers are unaware of them.
Chris


 

Hear, hear!!

Software development is not all that different in that regard than any other pursuit where repair is involved.  Just like a mechanic cannot fix a car if they're unaware of a problem, or if a reported problem cannot be replicated by them, neither can a programmer do the same for a bug.

This is one of the reasons I download and install the release candidates.  NVDA is not a major corporation with the resources to hire a dedicated testing department that can flog the software to death.  Having been a programmer, and one in an entity that can and did do that, you still will not find all potential bugs.  Even with very thorough test "scripts" the general user public will always find a way to do something that no one could ever have predicted they'd do, and with results that are sometimes as unpredictable.

Being a late beta tester on NVDA with the release candidates is a good idea for all users of the software.  And those of you who actually use NVDA as your primary method of access can be a lot more thorough in testing just by doing what you always do than anyone creating testing scenarios could hope to be.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Arlene
 

Confirmed! If you have a certain bug. Some people can or can’t confirm your bug.  I had beta tested Jaws 5.0 and there were some bugs I did find. Some others did not find.  Or vice versa.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: June-03-16 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] [nvda\] NVDA Devils advocate

 

Hear, hear!!

Software development is not all that different in that regard than any other pursuit where repair is involved.  Just like a mechanic cannot fix a car if they're unaware of a problem, or if a reported problem cannot be replicated by them, neither can a programmer do the same for a bug.

This is one of the reasons I download and install the release candidates.  NVDA is not a major corporation with the resources to hire a dedicated testing department that can flog the software to death.  Having been a programmer, and one in an entity that can and did do that, you still will not find all potential bugs.  Even with very thorough test "scripts" the general user public will always find a way to do something that no one could ever have predicted they'd do, and with results that are sometimes as unpredictable.

Being a late beta tester on NVDA with the release candidates is a good idea for all users of the software.  And those of you who actually use NVDA as your primary method of access can be a lot more thorough in testing just by doing what you always do than anyone creating testing scenarios could hope to be.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    

 


 

Arlene observed, "Confirmed! If you have a certain bug. Some people can or can’t confirm your bug."

Yep, because the number of variables that come into play to make certain bugs exhibit themselves are mind boggling (which is often why the software maker cannot replicate an issue even if they try to do so in what should be "the same environment" as it was encountered in by the user).

We have folks with various versions of Windows, all sorts of different hardware, all sorts of assistive technology beyond NVDA potentially installed, all sorts of programs in general besides NVDA installed, and the list goes on.  Each and every one of those things has the potential to set things up *juuuuuust right* for you, and only you (or a very small number of people who have the same combination as you), to encounter a given bug.

I often think it's a bit of a miracle that most software functions at all given the number of variables at play that the developers have no control over and may have never even had a reason to conceive of.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Arlene
 

Exactly! When we did beta test jaws. We had to tell what version of windows we had. Back when Jaws was 5.0 there was windows xp, me, 98 and 95.  So we had to say what we were using.  Most or almost everybody was using xp from what I remember.  We also had to say the version of beta we were using.  

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: June-03-16 10:22 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] [nvda\] NVDA Devils advocate

 

Arlene observed, "Confirmed! If you have a certain bug. Some people can or can’t confirm your bug."

Yep, because the number of variables that come into play to make certain bugs exhibit themselves are mind boggling (which is often why the software maker cannot replicate an issue even if they try to do so in what should be "the same environment" as it was encountered in by the user).

We have folks with various versions of Windows, all sorts of different hardware, all sorts of assistive technology beyond NVDA potentially installed, all sorts of programs in general besides NVDA installed, and the list goes on.  Each and every one of those things has the potential to set things up *juuuuuust right* for you, and only you (or a very small number of people who have the same combination as you), to encounter a given bug.

I often think it's a bit of a miracle that most software functions at all given the number of variables at play that the developers have no control over and may have never even had a reason to conceive of.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    

 


Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

Yess indeed. I see so many web sites, for examplewhich claim to be accessible to this r that standard as tested by ( insert program her). All this means from my experience is that things can be read, not how overfull and muddled with its links it is, or the issues of stupid music playing at the slightest provocation or the actual try to do a task test.
Its purely based on does this read, in my experience.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] [nvda\] NVDA Devils advocate


Hear, hear!!

Software development is not all that different in that regard than any other pursuit where repair is involved. Just like a mechanic cannot fix a car if they're unaware of a problem, or if a reported problem cannot be replicated by them, neither can a programmer do the same for a bug.

This is one of the reasons I download and install the release candidates. NVDA is not a major corporation with the resources to hire a dedicated testing department that can flog the software to death. Having been a programmer, and one in an entity that can and did do that, you still will not find all potential bugs. Even with very thorough test "scripts" the general user public will always find a way to do something that no one could ever have predicted they'd do, and with results that are sometimes as unpredictable.

Being a late beta tester on NVDA with the release candidates is a good idea for all users of the software. And those of you who actually use NVDA as your primary method of access can be a lot more thorough in testing just by doing what you always do than anyone creating testing scenarios could hope to be.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"


 

Well interestingly tech including printers and routers are a hit and miss thing.
I have had several d-link, tp link and dynalink-sisco units and they all started fine but the later units just have noo accessibility at all.
Right now I have a netcom which works and a netgear universal which after setting it manually, did a firmware update and it worked like a charm
I have had equipment that has been less than helpfull sadly.
Sadly it seems to be a bit of hit and miss weather your favorite bit of kit works or not.

On 4/06/2016 7:38 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Yess indeed. I see so many web sites, for examplewhich claim to be
accessible to this r that standard as tested by ( insert program her).
All this means from my experience is that things can be read, not how
overfull and muddled with its links it is, or the issues of stupid music
playing at the slightest provocation or the actual try to do a task test.
Its purely based on does this read, in my experience.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] [nvda\] NVDA Devils advocate


Hear, hear!!

Software development is not all that different in that regard than any
other pursuit where repair is involved. Just like a mechanic cannot fix
a car if they're unaware of a problem, or if a reported problem cannot
be replicated by them, neither can a programmer do the same for a bug.

This is one of the reasons I download and install the release
candidates. NVDA is not a major corporation with the resources to hire a
dedicated testing department that can flog the software to death. Having
been a programmer, and one in an entity that can and did do that, you
still will not find all potential bugs. Even with very thorough test
"scripts" the general user public will always find a way to do something
that no one could ever have predicted they'd do, and with results that
are sometimes as unpredictable.

Being a late beta tester on NVDA with the release candidates is a good
idea for all users of the software. And those of you who actually use
NVDA as your primary method of access can be a lot more thorough in
testing just by doing what you always do than anyone creating testing
scenarios could hope to be.