Google's Gear Icon


Gary Bowers <gdbowers@...>
 

Can the Golden Cursor be used to find the elusive gear icon at the top right
of most Google pages?

If so, how can this be done and what would NVDA announce when the icon is
found?

I'd appreciate any help in finding the gear icon.

Gary


Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

I am not even sure what it is or does.
anyone care to enlighten us?
Incidentally, if anything like this or the slow down appears to be happening its always worth a post on the dev list with info.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Bowers" <gdbowers@swbell.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:41 AM
Subject: [nvda] Google's Gear Icon


Can the Golden Cursor be used to find the elusive gear icon at the top right
of most Google pages?

If so, how can this be done and what would NVDA announce when the icon is
found?

I'd appreciate any help in finding the gear icon.

Gary



 

Gary,

          The answer to this depends on which Google pages you're talking about.  On pages such as Gmail's page and the Google Calendar, where the button is presented "wide" and there is a dropdown arrow next to the gear I can consistently find it by doing an NVDA search using "settings" as my search criterion.  NVDA throws focus on to the button, announcing, "Menu Button collapsed, submenu settings."  If one then hits Enter the dropdown menu appears and you can arrow up or down through it.

          On other Google pages, e.g., Drive, where it does not appear as a stand alone button but as a button on a toolbar I get myself into Browse mode and either use B or SHIFT+B to traverse buttons until I land on the settings button in the toolbar, which is announced, "Toolbar Settings Menu  Button collapsed submenu."  Again if you hit enter the settings menu itself will open.   There's got to be a better way than this but I've not practiced enough with the touch cursor features yet, which might prove helpful here.  There aren't that many buttons on most of these pages so resorting to a brute force search traversal is not an all day affair.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Gary Bowers <gdbowers@...>
 

Thanks, Brian. That really was a helpful reply and I appreciate it.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google's Gear Icon

Gary,

The answer to this depends on which Google pages you're talking about. On pages such as Gmail's page and the Google Calendar, where the button is presented "wide" and there is a dropdown arrow next to the gear I can consistently find it by doing an NVDA search using "settings" as my search criterion. NVDA throws focus on to the button, announcing, "Menu Button collapsed, submenu settings." If one then hits Enter the dropdown menu appears and you can arrow up or down through it.

On other Google pages, e.g., Drive, where it does not appear as a stand alone button but as a button on a toolbar I get myself into Browse mode and either use B or SHIFT+B to traverse buttons until I land on the settings button in the toolbar, which is announced, "Toolbar Settings Menu Button collapsed submenu." Again if you hit enter the settings menu itself will open. There's got to be a better way than this but I've not practiced enough with the touch cursor features yet, which might prove helpful here. There aren't that many buttons on most of these pages so resorting to a brute force search traversal is not an all day affair.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"


 

Gary,

          You're quite welcome.  I learn more by trying to figure out the answers to questions such as yours than I do from "just playing around."

          If anyone does know a more efficient method that "brute force button search" for the toolbar buttons please do let me know.  Also, I long ago printed out the Quick Reference for 2016.1, but somehow am not seeing (or recognizing) the material related to the touch cursor, unless that's synonymous with Object Navigation (which I still don't quite have the hang of).  Pointers to any good resources or tutorials on this would be much appreciated as it seems that these are often the key to getting at buttons and other bits in the new universal apps that are not accessible otherwise.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Gene
 

It should be pointed out that while there are times when you need to use object navigation or perhaps mouse navigation on a web page, the vast majority of navigation doesn't require any such means.  If you are using object navigation or some other form than browse mode often, you are not using browse mode fully and you are making unnecessary work for yourself.  People would save themselves a lot of time in the future if they would spend time now learning in a systematic manner with a good tutorial or by using a text document if they prefer such as the user manual. 
 
Gene
 


 

Gene,

            Have any proposals on the tutorial front?

            There are things I have found that I cannot search for, regardless of what I've tried, and there are some things in the new universal apps that are not lending themselves to conventional systematic methods.  If there's something out there dedicated to this, even if it's partial, that's better than nothing given that we are in a major state of transition with certain aspects of the Windows interface.  Web coding is another story of its own, and is a moving target, too.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Gene
 

I don't know what is available from Joseph Lee's tutorial regarding your interests but he has covered topics such as object navigation.  You can see and download whatever you are interested in at this address:
 
Gene

Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google's Gear Icon

Gene,

            Have any proposals on the tutorial front?

            There are things I have found that I cannot search for, regardless of what I've tried, and there are some things in the new universal apps that are not lending themselves to conventional systematic methods.  If there's something out there dedicated to this, even if it's partial, that's better than nothing given that we are in a major state of transition with certain aspects of the Windows interface.  Web coding is another story of its own, and is a moving target, too.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

So then, why don't google simply label it as settings button drop down or something more obvious than at present.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Bowers" <gdbowers@swbell.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google's Gear Icon


Thanks, Brian. That really was a helpful reply and I appreciate it.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google's Gear Icon

Gary,

The answer to this depends on which Google pages you're talking about. On pages such as Gmail's page and the Google Calendar, where the button is presented "wide" and there is a dropdown arrow next to the gear I can consistently find it by doing an NVDA search using "settings" as my search criterion. NVDA throws focus on to the button, announcing, "Menu Button collapsed, submenu settings." If one then hits Enter the dropdown menu appears and you can arrow up or down through it.

On other Google pages, e.g., Drive, where it does not appear as a stand alone button but as a button on a toolbar I get myself into Browse mode and either use B or SHIFT+B to traverse buttons until I land on the settings button in the toolbar, which is announced, "Toolbar Settings Menu Button collapsed submenu." Again if you hit enter the settings menu itself will open. There's got to be a better way than this but I've not practiced enough with the touch cursor features yet, which might prove helpful here. There aren't that many buttons on most of these pages so resorting to a brute force search traversal is not an all day affair.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"


Gary Bowers <gdbowers@...>
 

I agree! I much prefer text descriptions.

But as you know, almost everyone, e.g. Apple, Google, Microsoft really, really love the graphical user interface.

The gear symbol has become a cross platform annoyance for some of us, but many people look for it to adjust settings for Safari, Google, photography sites, chess sites...whatever.

I suppose gears are used to adjust many mechanical things like watches, etc, so the symbolism carried over to iconism.

Just my half-asleep thoughts.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2016 5:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google's Gear Icon

So then, why don't google simply label it as settings button drop down or
something more obvious than at present.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Bowers" <gdbowers@swbell.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google's Gear Icon


Thanks, Brian. That really was a helpful reply and I appreciate it.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian
Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google's Gear Icon

Gary,

The answer to this depends on which Google pages you're talking
about. On pages such as Gmail's page and the Google Calendar, where the
button is presented "wide" and there is a dropdown arrow next to the gear I
can consistently find it by doing an NVDA search using "settings" as my
search criterion. NVDA throws focus on to the button, announcing, "Menu
Button collapsed, submenu settings." If one then hits Enter the dropdown
menu appears and you can arrow up or down through it.

On other Google pages, e.g., Drive, where it does not appear as a
stand alone button but as a button on a toolbar I get myself into Browse
mode and either use B or SHIFT+B to traverse buttons until I land on the
settings button in the toolbar, which is announced, "Toolbar Settings Menu
Button collapsed submenu." Again if you hit enter the settings menu itself
will open. There's got to be a better way than this but I've not practiced
enough with the touch cursor features yet, which might prove helpful here.
There aren't that many buttons on most of these pages so resorting to a
brute force search traversal is not an all day affair.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never
enough to keep up.

~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in
the Universe"


 

Gary Bowers wrote:  "I agree! I much prefer text descriptions."

I miss being able to do what you used to be able to do on Firefox, and that was to choose icons, text, or text plus icons. For myself, I liked the combination of the two best.

And continued: "But as you know, almost everyone, e.g. Apple, Google, Microsoft really, really love the graphical user interface."

It really has little to do with that, per se, and a lot more to do with not having to customize by market. Just as a great deal of road signage internationally has "gone icon" so have other things where a symbol is universally recognizable (and, after a period of use, recognized).

And further, "but many people look for it to adjust settings for Safari, Google, photography sites, chess sites..."

                In other words, goal accomplished.  If something is being designed to be accessible, though, there should be consistent alternate text that can be used for screen reader search functions, and that seems to be happening at least somewhat regularly.  What I think is interesting, and certainly would be frustrating, is that actual placement of something like a button on a toolbar versus as part of a webpage makes how you have to go about finding it different.  I've encountered a lot of instances where, if a site is completely unfamilar, a brute force "tab around" is almost required to get a sense of what's there.  That's one of the reasons I really love the mouse tracking feature of NVDA.  Most pages are laid out to be "visually logical" but the process used to load them into the screen reader's virtual world often has the tendency to break some of that.  If you have a touch screen or mouse pad and can learn how to do an orderly sweep, top to bottom, left to right, you can very often find out a heck of a lot more about what's going on quickly that by using a brute force tab around.  It also applies to the controls for the actual window you're in, whether web related or not.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Arianna Sepulveda
 

While using the mouse is great in theory, is there a way for a screen reader user to restrict the area to a specific window? I don't want to be able to move the mouse to the desktop or another window when trying to explore a particular window. I know things make sense for sighted people with window boarders and such, but a blind person doesn't get any feedback that they've crossed into another window until NVDA says something like desktop aor a control from another window.


Thanks,
Ari

On Jun 9, 2016, at 6:35 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Gary Bowers wrote:  "I agree! I much prefer text descriptions."

I miss being able to do what you used to be able to do on Firefox, and that was to choose icons, text, or text plus icons. For myself, I liked the combination of the two best.

And continued: "But as you know, almost everyone, e.g. Apple, Google, Microsoft really, really love the graphical user interface."

It really has little to do with that, per se, and a lot more to do with not having to customize by market. Just as a great deal of road signage internationally has "gone icon" so have other things where a symbol is universally recognizable (and, after a period of use, recognized).

And further, "but many people look for it to adjust settings for Safari, Google, photography sites, chess sites..."

                In other words, goal accomplished.  If something is being designed to be accessible, though, there should be consistent alternate text that can be used for screen reader search functions, and that seems to be happening at least somewhat regularly.  What I think is interesting, and certainly would be frustrating, is that actual placement of something like a button on a toolbar versus as part of a webpage makes how you have to go about finding it different.  I've encountered a lot of instances where, if a site is completely unfamilar, a brute force "tab around" is almost required to get a sense of what's there.  That's one of the reasons I really love the mouse tracking feature of NVDA.  Most pages are laid out to be "visually logical" but the process used to load them into the screen reader's virtual world often has the tendency to break some of that.  If you have a touch screen or mouse pad and can learn how to do an orderly sweep, top to bottom, left to right, you can very often find out a heck of a lot more about what's going on quickly that by using a brute force tab around.  It also applies to the controls for the actual window you're in, whether web related or not.
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



 

Ari,

          There are sometimes ways to put constraints on mouse movement, but this is not the best solution in my opinion.  Make sure that the window you are trying to explore is maximized before you start exploring it.  Then the only "run off" you should experience is to your Windows taskbar.

          It's also worth exploring the constraints that your mouse or mouse pad driver might be able to impose.  On my machine the mouse pointer never "exits the screen border" except from the taskbar at the bottom, and even when it does that it does not "loop around" and reappear from the top.  I can get my mouse pointer, and those of most laptop users, to be at the top left corner of the screen no matter where it had been, by performing a diagonal swipe from bottom right to top left of the mouse pad a couple of times before starting a systematic side to side, top to bottom quick exploration using the mouse pad as the virtual border for the maximized window.  At some point I'm going to have to commandeer my partner's touch screen computer and play with this technique actually using my finger on the screen itself with a NVDA running.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Gene
 

The gear icon has been used for the tools menu in lots of places for years.  I believe you will find it in Internet Explorer probably going back to version 5.x and probably below.  I don't know if it particularly matters to designers if that makes much sense and I don't know if it does visually.  I would think a tools icon should be a tiny representation of some tools or of a tool chest but a gear is not a tool. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2016 5:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google's Gear Icon

I agree! I much prefer text descriptions.

But as you know, almost everyone, e.g. Apple, Google, Microsoft really, really love the graphical user interface.

The gear symbol has become a cross platform annoyance for some of us, but many people look for it to adjust settings for Safari, Google, photography sites, chess sites...whatever.

I suppose gears are used to adjust many mechanical things like watches, etc, so the symbolism carried over to iconism.

Just my half-asleep thoughts.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2016 5:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google's Gear Icon

So then, why don't google simply label it as settings button drop down or
something more obvious than at present.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Bowers" <gdbowers@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google's Gear Icon


Thanks, Brian. That really was a helpful reply and I appreciate it.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian
Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google's Gear Icon

Gary,

          The answer to this depends on which Google pages you're talking
about.  On pages such as Gmail's page and the Google Calendar, where the
button is presented "wide" and there is a dropdown arrow next to the gear I
can consistently find it by doing an NVDA search using "settings" as my
search criterion.  NVDA throws focus on to the button, announcing, "Menu
Button collapsed, submenu settings."  If one then hits Enter the dropdown
menu appears and you can arrow up or down through it.

          On other Google pages, e.g., Drive, where it does not appear as a
stand alone button but as a button on a toolbar I get myself into Browse
mode and either use B or SHIFT+B to traverse buttons until I land on the
settings button in the toolbar, which is announced, "Toolbar Settings Menu
Button collapsed submenu."  Again if you hit enter the settings menu itself
will open.   There's got to be a better way than this but I've not practiced
enough with the touch cursor features yet, which might prove helpful here.
There aren't that many buttons on most of these pages so resorting to a
brute force search traversal is not an all day affair.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never
enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in
the Universe"