hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks
without terminal and command line,
certainly i said goodbye to windows and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think about it
for a second. Why would they make an operating system where you had to
type one command before any other command you type? Doesn't make sense,
does it? Also, remember that you are authenticating each time you do
this, even though it may be set up so that you don't need to use your
password each and every time, which ever command you use with sudo gets
elevated to root status. A little reading will tell you all you need to
know. I don't like it when people spread information that could harm
other people's machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one
thing, but if you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally
ignorant. Then, what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and
sees this and tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf *
from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the

default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type
things
if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you

have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech
output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and

speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but
you
can't install them under Mac OSX either. That doesn't mean a Mac is worse
than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the
Linux
or OSX version instead of the Windows version. It does mean you cannot use

NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux,
Voiceover
for Mac OSX).

Linux is different. Mac OSX is different. Some people prefer them; it's a

personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because
you
can't install the same applications as you can on Windows. You might just
as
well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the

Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks
without terminal and command line,
certainly i said goodbye to windows and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much
mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think about
it
for a second. Why would they make an operating system where you had to
type one command before any other command you type? Doesn't make sense,
does it? Also, remember that you are authenticating each time you do
this, even though it may be set up so that you don't need to use your
password each and every time, which ever command you use with sudo gets
elevated to root status. A little reading will tell you all you need to
know. I don't like it when people spread information that could harm
other people's machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one
thing, but if you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally
ignorant. Then, what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and
sees this and tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf *
from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

Please reply to the
list;
please *don't* CC
me.

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where
you had to type one command before any other command you type?
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time,
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it
when people spread information that could harm other people's
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then,
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where
you had to type one command before any other command you type?
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time,
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it
when people spread information that could harm other people's
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then,
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the

default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type
things
if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you

have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech
output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and

speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but
you
can't install them under Mac OSX either. That doesn't mean a Mac is worse
than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the
Linux
or OSX version instead of the Windows version. It does mean you cannot use

NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux,
Voiceover
for Mac OSX).

Linux is different. Mac OSX is different. Some people prefer them; it's a

personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because
you
can't install the same applications as you can on Windows. You might just
as
well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the

Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks
without terminal and command line,
certainly i said goodbye to windows and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much
mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think about
it
for a second. Why would they make an operating system where you had to
type one command before any other command you type? Doesn't make sense,
does it? Also, remember that you are authenticating each time you do
this, even though it may be set up so that you don't need to use your
password each and every time, which ever command you use with sudo gets
elevated to root status. A little reading will tell you all you need to
know. I don't like it when people spread information that could harm
other people's machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one
thing, but if you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally
ignorant. Then, what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and
sees this and tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf *
from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

Please reply to the
list;
please *don't* CC
me.

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.

 

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for goodness sake, and love most console programs, but most users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually impaired person.

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.

 

The gui version of linux is similar to windows 95, featuring crashes. Nobody really works on Orca because 0.001% of the user base is visually impaired. Things will not read, you are forced to use the terminal, which of course does and should work 100%.

Linux is great for servers, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy for the average consumer's every day OS. JMT, though. Whatever works for folks and the like.

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for goodness sake, and love most console programs, but most users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually impaired person.

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

 

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.

 

 

Clearly you haven’t looked it lately.

Orca is updated on a regular basis, and now works quite well.

If you don’t use it on a regular basis, you have no idea what successes the Orca group has had.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

The gui version of linux is similar to windows 95, featuring crashes. Nobody really works on Orca because 0.001% of the user base is visually impaired. Things will not read, you are forced to use the terminal, which of course does and should work 100%.

 

Linux is great for servers, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy for the average consumer's every day OS. JMT, though. Whatever works for folks and the like.

 

 

On 23-May-2018 9:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for goodness sake, and love most console programs, but most users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually impaired person.

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

 

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.

 

 

 

This was 2 months ago.

I tried it with all the basic tasks for a week straight on an AMD fx8350. It was doable, but lots of sluggishness where there didn't need to be, lots of things not reading with screen review. I ended up using the terminal quite often to accomplish something and, in doing so, took longer to accomplish said basic tasks. It's fun, but only until it hampered my productivity.

Your mileage may vary of course. What didn't work for me may work just dandy for you.

On 23-May-2018 9:49 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

Clearly you haven’t looked it lately.

Orca is updated on a regular basis, and now works quite well.

If you don’t use it on a regular basis, you have no idea what successes the Orca group has had.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

The gui version of linux is similar to windows 95, featuring crashes. Nobody really works on Orca because 0.001% of the user base is visually impaired. Things will not read, you are forced to use the terminal, which of course does and should work 100%.

 

Linux is great for servers, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy for the average consumer's every day OS. JMT, though. Whatever works for folks and the like.

 

 

On 23-May-2018 9:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for goodness sake, and love most console programs, but most users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually impaired person.

 

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

 

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.

 

 

 

What version of Linux did you try.

I have used most of the Debian distros.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

This was 2 months ago.

I tried it with all the basic tasks for a week straight on an AMD fx8350. It was doable, but lots of sluggishness where there didn't need to be, lots of things not reading with screen review. I ended up using the terminal quite often to accomplish something and, in doing so, took longer to accomplish said basic tasks. It's fun, but only until it hampered my productivity.

Your mileage may vary of course. What didn't work for me may work just dandy for you.

 

 

On 23-May-2018 9:49 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

Clearly you haven’t looked it lately.

Orca is updated on a regular basis, and now works quite well.

If you don’t use it on a regular basis, you have no idea what successes the Orca group has had.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

The gui version of linux is similar to windows 95, featuring crashes. Nobody really works on Orca because 0.001% of the user base is visually impaired. Things will not read, you are forced to use the terminal, which of course does and should work 100%.

 

Linux is great for servers, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy for the average consumer's every day OS. JMT, though. Whatever works for folks and the like.

 

 

On 23-May-2018 9:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for goodness sake, and love most console programs, but most users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually impaired person.

 

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

 

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.

 

 

 

 

I tried Ubuntu 16.04. When I realized I wasn't a fan of the gui layout I
switched to Debian and mostly used the terminal for server related
things. It was a lot nicer when I could ssh in. I just wasn't a fan of
web browsing, for example. This was a pretty decent machine and yet
firefox wasn't the quickest thing in the world especially on larger
sites with orca.


On 23-May-2018 9:57 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

What version of Linux did you try.

I have used most of the Debian distros.

73 N2DYN Angelo

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Tyler
Wood
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:54 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] About Linux

This was 2 months ago.

I tried it with all the basic tasks for a week straight on an AMD
fx8350. It was doable, but lots of sluggishness where there didn't
need to be, lots of things not reading with screen review. I ended up
using the terminal quite often to accomplish something and, in doing
so, took longer to accomplish said basic tasks. It's fun, but only
until it hampered my productivity.

Your mileage may vary of course. What didn't work for me may work just
dandy for you.

On 23-May-2018 9:49 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

Clearly you haven’t looked it lately.

Orca is updated on a regular basis, and now works quite well.

If you don’t use it on a regular basis, you have no idea what
successes the Orca group has had.

73 N2DYN Angelo

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Tyler Wood
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:43 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] About Linux

The gui version of linux is similar to windows 95, featuring
crashes. Nobody really works on Orca because 0.001% of the user
base is visually impaired. Things will not read, you are forced to
use the terminal, which of course does and should work 100%.

Linux is great for servers, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy for
the average consumer's every day OS. JMT, though. Whatever works
for folks and the like.

On 23-May-2018 9:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for
goodness sake, and love most console programs, but
/most/ users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I
can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually
impaired person.

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey
<crystallogic@...
<mailto:crystallogic@...>> wrote:

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never
had any issue with using the terminal, although my only
previous experience had been logging into a shell via
Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I
remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up
in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]*On
Behalf Of*Devin Prater
*Sent:*May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] About Linux

You will always need the terminal for something. Something
breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of
course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most
of it most be customized for your system, your files, your
initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give
the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it
isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to
use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are,
and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey
<crystallogic@...
<mailto:crystallogic@...>> wrote:

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have
changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I
had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And
Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually
worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I
really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending
more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing
stuff with the oS.

-----Original Message-----
From:nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless
you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical
environment from the default installation, and although
you can open a command shell to type things if you want
to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean
that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers
providing speech output, and there is a screenreader
(Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for
graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications
under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX
either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows -
it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have
to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows
version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can
use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux,
Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people
prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are
worse just because you can't install the same applications
as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that
Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all
the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui
interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing
hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on
windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other
usual tasks
without terminal and command line, certainly i said
goodbye to windows
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not,
at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...
<mailto:bcross3286@...>> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are
much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and
think
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating
system where
you had to type one command before any other command you
type?
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may
be set up
so that you don't need to use your password each and every
time,
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root
status. A
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't
like it
when people spread information that could harm other people's
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one
thing, but if
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally
ignorant. Then,
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees
this and
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf *
from the root directory, then bye bye machine.


--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please
reply to the list;

                                                        please
*don't* CC me.

On May 23, 2018, at 10:23 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:

did someone tried zorinOS?
i read that it is designed for windows and mac migrate to linux and it has orca.
i wish that if someone used it and has experience in this regard,
please email me.

On 5/23/18, Tyler Wood <tcwood12@...> wrote:

I tried Ubuntu 16.04. When I realized I wasn't a fan of the gui layout I
switched to Debian and mostly used the terminal for server related
things. It was a lot nicer when I could ssh in. I just wasn't a fan of
web browsing, for example. This was a pretty decent machine and yet
firefox wasn't the quickest thing in the world especially on larger
sites with orca.


On 23-May-2018 9:57 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

What version of Linux did you try.

I have used most of the Debian distros.

73 N2DYN Angelo

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Tyler
Wood
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:54 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] About Linux

This was 2 months ago.

I tried it with all the basic tasks for a week straight on an AMD
fx8350. It was doable, but lots of sluggishness where there didn't
need to be, lots of things not reading with screen review. I ended up
using the terminal quite often to accomplish something and, in doing
so, took longer to accomplish said basic tasks. It's fun, but only
until it hampered my productivity.

Your mileage may vary of course. What didn't work for me may work just
dandy for you.

On 23-May-2018 9:49 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

Clearly you haven’t looked it lately.

Orca is updated on a regular basis, and now works quite well.

If you don’t use it on a regular basis, you have no idea what
successes the Orca group has had.

73 N2DYN Angelo

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Tyler Wood
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:43 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] About Linux

The gui version of linux is similar to windows 95, featuring
crashes. Nobody really works on Orca because 0.001% of the user
base is visually impaired. Things will not read, you are forced to
use the terminal, which of course does and should work 100%.

Linux is great for servers, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy for
the average consumer's every day OS. JMT, though. Whatever works
for folks and the like.

On 23-May-2018 9:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for
goodness sake, and love most console programs, but
/most/ users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I
can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually
impaired person.

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey
<crystallogic@...
<mailto:crystallogic@...>> wrote:

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never
had any issue with using the terminal, although my only
previous experience had been logging into a shell via
Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I
remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up
in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]*On
Behalf Of*Devin Prater
*Sent:*May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] About Linux

You will always need the terminal for something. Something
breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of
course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most
of it most be customized for your system, your files, your
initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give
the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it
isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to
use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are,
and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey
<crystallogic@...
<mailto:crystallogic@...>> wrote:

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have
changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I
had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And
Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually
worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I
really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending
more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing
stuff with the oS.

-----Original Message-----
From:nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless
you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical
environment from the default installation, and although
you can open a command shell to type things if you want
to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean
that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers
providing speech output, and there is a screenreader
(Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for
graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications
under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX
either. That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows -
it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have
to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows
version. It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can
use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux,
Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different. Mac OSX is different. Some people
prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are
worse just because you can't install the same applications
as you can on Windows. You might just as well say that
Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all
the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui
interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing
hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on
windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other
usual tasks
without terminal and command line, certainly i said
goodbye to windows
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not,
at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...
<mailto:bcross3286@...>> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are
much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and
think
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating
system where
you had to type one command before any other command you
type?
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may
be set up
so that you don't need to use your password each and every
time,
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root
status. A
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't
like it
when people spread information that could harm other people's
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one
thing, but if
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally
ignorant. Then,
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees
this and
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf *
from the root directory, then bye bye machine.


--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

Please
reply to the list;

please
*don't* CC me.

--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

On 23 May 2018, at 13:32, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:

i did not say linux is worse.
i told that i want the graphical user interface with all of my
applications on windows.
for linux,
even its not possible to find one installer file without need to
compiling the sourcecodes,
or using repository or online installer or command line or terminal!
i studied hundreds of links in english and achieved this result.
even i can download for example my favorite version of firefox,
i should compile it to a deb file to install it easily like windows!
i wish that someone make a linux according to my desire!
and i did not find any options except for windows because of these limitations!
i am not a computer engineer or code familiar to use current linux versions!
if in the future, someone makes a linux exactly in the same way that i
need and desire,
please, send email and inform me about this great revolution!

On 5/23/18, Antony Stone <antony.stone@...> wrote:

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the

default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type
things
if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you

have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech
output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and

speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but
you
can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse
than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the
Linux
or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use

NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux,
Voiceover
for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a

personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because
you
can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just
as
well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the

Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks
without terminal and command line,
certainly i said goodbye to windows and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much
mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think about
it
for a second. Why would they make an operating system where you had to
type one command before any other command you type? Doesn't make sense,
does it? Also, remember that you are authenticating each time you do
this, even though it may be set up so that you don't need to use your
password each and every time, which ever command you use with sudo gets
elevated to root status. A little reading will tell you all you need to
know. I don't like it when people spread information that could harm
other people's machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one
thing, but if you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally
ignorant. Then, what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and
sees this and tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf *
from the root directory, then bye bye machine.

--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the
list;
                                                        please *don't* CC
me.

-- 
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

it is inevitable, though there is a lot you can do with the GUI as others have rightly said.