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Interesting news


multi 85
 

Now there really is a David versus Goliath and thank goodness for
NVDA, because we'd definitely have very little innovation with this
new move if NVDA didn't exist. Must support.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ai-squared-joins-vfo-home-of-freedom-scientific-and-optelec-300284405.html


erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

I hear you and I'm a proud supporter of NVDA.  Here's my thinking though, and I'm sure it won't be popular but here goes.

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to head the project.  Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built into windows.  That really rips up the open source model and that's bad; however, It trades narrater for a high end professional product for windows users across the board.  It could also be that in this sinareo, usb drivers for many supported braille displays would become plug and play supported with windows via the built in NVDA.  That would really be huge for some one like John.  Suddenly a person who is deaf-blind could have access to install or upgrade their own copy of windows, handle their own registration, and not have to have a sighted person drop buy to download packages off the internet and fiddle with wizards.

Apple desktop and mobile solutions already have this and android as it as well.  Windows is way behind and acquiring NVDA could be a great way to catch up to the pack as long as the quality of the product continues to be high.

Best,

Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!  
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:

On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:11 AM, multi 85 <multi851@...> wrote:

Now there really is a David versus Goliath and thank goodness for
NVDA, because we'd definitely have very little innovation with this
new move if NVDA didn't exist. Must support.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ai-squared-joins-vfo-home-of-freedom-scientific-and-optelec-300284405.html





Kenny Dog <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

I guess also it would solve a lot of access problems as well around the world. I mean as to go up to any computer any where running Windows and use a screen reader. You can not really say narrator is one or if it is very basic. funny thing is that I did not know how many shortcuts etc it actually had until I looked at a list of shortcuts for it.

That is narrator.

If that was to happen they don't want it locked down you still want them to innovate.



Then again there is no reason why a government or governments can not just buy this project and pay there wages and flick off all the stuff that is plugged into the government
I mean as in a lot of countries there are certain projects for the blind and visually impaired that get there funding from the government no names mentioned.

These times are changing and hopefully prices will come down for adaptive technologies or the smart phone will do a lot more for us.

For example the new braille orbit reader that is coming out and will it be supported by NVDA?

Gene nz


 like we have here.


On 15/06/2016 7:07 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
I hear you and I'm a proud supporter of NVDA.  Here's my thinking though, and I'm sure it won't be popular but here goes.

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to head the project.  Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built into windows.  That really rips up the open source model and that's bad; however, It trades narrater for a high end professional product for windows users across the board.  It could also be that in this sinareo, usb drivers for many supported braille displays would become plug and play supported with windows via the built in NVDA.  That would really be huge for some one like John.  Suddenly a person who is deaf-blind could have access to install or upgrade their own copy of windows, handle their own registration, and not have to have a sighted person drop buy to download packages off the internet and fiddle with wizards.

Apple desktop and mobile solutions already have this and android as it as well.  Windows is way behind and acquiring NVDA could be a great way to catch up to the pack as long as the quality of the product continues to be high.

Best,

Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!  
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:

On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:11 AM, multi 85 <multi851@...> wrote:

Now there really is a David versus Goliath and thank goodness for
NVDA, because we'd definitely have very little innovation with this
new move if NVDA didn't exist. Must support.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ai-squared-joins-vfo-home-of-freedom-scientific-and-optelec-300284405.html





-- 
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,


I wonder what all those folks who bought MS Office for the free Window-Eyes are going to do? I use Office on a regular basis, so I don't mind the C note or so every year, but in addition, I thought I was getting a free copy of Window-Eyes as a back up to NVDA. I can't see that being continued if JAWS is still going to be sold at 900 Plus dollars and upgrade for A C note a year. It would create an obvious conflict of interest for the now merged giants.

On 6/14/2016 3:58 PM, Gene New Zealand wrote:
I guess also it would solve a lot of access problems as well around the world. I mean as to go up to any computer any where running Windows and use a screen reader. You can not really say narrator is one or if it is very basic. funny thing is that I did not know how many shortcuts etc it actually had until I looked at a list of shortcuts for it.

That is narrator.

If that was to happen they don't want it locked down you still want them to innovate.


Then again there is no reason why a government or governments can not just buy this project and pay there wages and flick off all the stuff that is plugged into the government
I mean as in a lot of countries there are certain projects for the blind and visually impaired that get there funding from the government no names mentioned.

These times are changing and hopefully prices will come down for adaptive technologies or the smart phone will do a lot more for us.

For example the new braille orbit reader that is coming out and will it be supported by NVDA?

Gene nz


like we have here.


On 15/06/2016 7:07 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
I hear you and I'm a proud supporter of NVDA. Here's my thinking though, and I'm sure it won't be popular but here goes.

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to head the project. Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built into windows. That really rips up the open source model and that's bad; however, It trades narrater for a high end professional product for windows users across the board. It could also be that in this sinareo, usb drivers for many supported braille displays would become plug and play supported with windows via the built in NVDA. That would really be huge for some one like John. Suddenly a person who is deaf-blind could have access to install or upgrade their own copy of windows, handle their own registration, and not have to have a sighted person drop buy to download packages off the internet and fiddle with wizards.

Apple desktop and mobile solutions already have this and android as it as well. Windows is way behind and acquiring NVDA could be a great way to catch up to the pack as long as the quality of the product continues to be high.

Best,

Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!
<http://www.theoutofworkbum.work>http://www.theoutofworkbum.work
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:
<http://www.inclusiveandroid.com>http://www.inclusiveandroid.com

On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:11 AM, multi 85 <<mailto:multi851@...>multi851@...<mailto:multi851@...>> wrote:

Now there really is a David versus Goliath and thank goodness for
NVDA, because we'd definitely have very little innovation with this
new move if NVDA didn't exist. Must support.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ai-squared-joins-vfo-home-of-freedom-scientific-and-optelec-300284405.html







--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Antony Stone
 

What's in it for Microsoft to bother with such a move?

Do they sell more copies of Windows? Very very marginally, perhaps. They
seem to be giving Windows away for nothing these days anyway.

Will they gain market share over the competiton (ie: Apple)? I don't think so
- Apple has a very good screen reader built in to iOS, and people who like
Apple will continue to use Apple; those who like Windows will continue to use
Windows.

No, NV Access doesn't need to be bought by Microsoft - it needs investment
from a company which can get NVDA used by the big corporates and public sector
who currently pay for JAWS licences, but could do so much better with an open
source licence-free solution.

As with all open source software, the market is in support, not in supplying
it in the first place (look at Red Hat and their business model). Microsoft
has nothing to gain by acquiring NV Access, but someone with a brand name
behind them (so that they get taken seriously by large employers) and the
facilities to provide support for NVDA could do very well, both for themselves
and for NV Access.


Well, that's my opinion, anyway.


Antony.

On Tuesday 14 June 2016 at 21:07:44, erik burggraaf wrote:

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to
head the project. Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built
into windows.
--
A user interface is like a joke.
If you have to explain it, it didn't work.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


multi 85
 

I think the two things we can be worried a bit about is that Microsoft
had a deal with GW Micro for the Office venture. Point being that, now
these two huge companies are rolled into one, Microsoft might start
treating them as some sort of only voice of the blind community or the
major screenreader group they will only work with since businesses buy
their products?
The other episode I think we must not forget, is what happened a few
years ago where Freedom Scientific products stopped supporting older
braille displays and also made manufacturers pay for these so-called
"secure" driver scheme, trying to also channel users to switch to the
focus range.
It will be interesting to see what happens, but I am really hoping
that the other very few remaining screenreader manufacturers or groups
will survive. Since NVDA is free and developed by a universal
community, I think I don't fear as much for it as compared to maybe
the smaller proprietory manufacturers, but that is hopefully assuming
that this new huge company doesn't somehow get preferential treatment.

On 6/14/16, Antony Stone <Antony.Stone@...> wrote:
What's in it for Microsoft to bother with such a move?

Do they sell more copies of Windows? Very very marginally, perhaps. They
seem to be giving Windows away for nothing these days anyway.

Will they gain market share over the competiton (ie: Apple)? I don't think
so
- Apple has a very good screen reader built in to iOS, and people who like
Apple will continue to use Apple; those who like Windows will continue to
use
Windows.

No, NV Access doesn't need to be bought by Microsoft - it needs investment
from a company which can get NVDA used by the big corporates and public
sector
who currently pay for JAWS licences, but could do so much better with an
open
source licence-free solution.

As with all open source software, the market is in support, not in supplying

it in the first place (look at Red Hat and their business model). Microsoft

has nothing to gain by acquiring NV Access, but someone with a brand name
behind them (so that they get taken seriously by large employers) and the
facilities to provide support for NVDA could do very well, both for
themselves
and for NV Access.


Well, that's my opinion, anyway.


Antony.

On Tuesday 14 June 2016 at 21:07:44, erik burggraaf wrote:

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James
to
head the project. Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built
into windows.
--
A user interface is like a joke.
If you have to explain it, it didn't work.

Please reply to the
list;
please *don't* CC
me.




Chris Shook <cshook0309@...>
 

One thing you have to agree with is that NVDA is ten times the screen reader that JAWS. That automatic forms mode is a pain. It activates whenever there's a forms field.
If Mocrosoft bought NVDA, that would solve their screen reader problem. Let NVDA continue to do their work with the screen reader aspect, and they just touch base with Microsoft to make sure everything works.
Chris


On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:58 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:


I guess also it would solve a lot of access problems as well around the world. I mean as to go up to any computer any where running Windows and use a screen reader. You can not really say narrator is one or if it is very basic. funny thing is that I did not know how many shortcuts etc it actually had until I looked at a list of shortcuts for it.
That is narrator.
If that was to happen they don't want it locked down you still want them to innovate.


Then again there is no reason why a government or governments can not just buy this project and pay there wages and flick off all the stuff that is plugged into the government
I mean as in a lot of countries there are certain projects for the blind and visually impaired that get there funding from the government no names mentioned.

These times are changing and hopefully prices will come down for adaptive technologies or the smart phone will do a lot more for us.

For example the new braille orbit reader that is coming out and will it be supported by NVDA?

Gene nz


 like we have here.


On 15/06/2016 7:07 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
I hear you and I'm a proud supporter of NVDA.  Here's my thinking though, and I'm sure it won't be popular but here goes.

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to head the project.  Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built into windows.  That really rips up the open source model and that's bad; however, It trades narrater for a high end professional product for windows users across the board.  It could also be that in this sinareo, usb drivers for many supported braille displays would become plug and play supported with windows via the built in NVDA.  That would really be huge for some one like John.  Suddenly a person who is deaf-blind could have access to install or upgrade their own copy of windows, handle their own registration, and not have to have a sighted person drop buy to download packages off the internet and fiddle with wizards.

Apple desktop and mobile solutions already have this and android as it as well.  Windows is way behind and acquiring NVDA could be a great way to catch up to the pack as long as the quality of the product continues to be high.

Best,

Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!  
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:

On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:11 AM, multi 85 <multi851@...> wrote:

Now there really is a David versus Goliath and thank goodness for
NVDA, because we'd definitely have very little innovation with this
new move if NVDA didn't exist. Must support.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ai-squared-joins-vfo-home-of-freedom-scientific-and-optelec-300284405.html





-- 
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net



John J. Boyer
 

Mac OSX VoiceOver recognizes my Pac Mate display as soon as it is
plugged in. On Debian Linux the installation disk recognizes my Braille
display as soon as the load process begins. It is weird that Windows
does not have a built-in screenreader that can do the same.

I think my sighted assistant messed up NVDA. It isn't working. I'm
getting professional help to try to get some screenreader working on my
Windows computer.

My experiences with Freedom Scientific technical support have not been
positive. Their customer service has deteriorated since they were
acquired by vfo-group. it's the usual story of an acquiring company
trying to save money in the short-term and sacrificing long-term
profits.

John

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 04:07:26PM -0400, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,


I wonder what all those folks who bought MS Office for the free Window-Eyes
are going to do? I use Office on a regular basis, so I don't mind the C
note or so every year, but in addition, I thought I was getting a free copy
of Window-Eyes as a back up to NVDA. I can't see that being continued if
JAWS is still going to be sold at 900 Plus dollars and upgrade for A C note
a year. It would create an obvious conflict of interest for the now merged
giants.



On 6/14/2016 3:58 PM, Gene New Zealand wrote:
I guess also it would solve a lot of access problems as well around the world. I mean as to go up to any computer any where running Windows and use a screen reader. You can not really say narrator is one or if it is very basic. funny thing is that I did not know how many shortcuts etc it actually had until I looked at a list of shortcuts for it.

That is narrator.

If that was to happen they don't want it locked down you still want them to innovate.


Then again there is no reason why a government or governments can not just buy this project and pay there wages and flick off all the stuff that is plugged into the government
I mean as in a lot of countries there are certain projects for the blind and visually impaired that get there funding from the government no names mentioned.

These times are changing and hopefully prices will come down for adaptive technologies or the smart phone will do a lot more for us.

For example the new braille orbit reader that is coming out and will it be supported by NVDA?

Gene nz


like we have here.


On 15/06/2016 7:07 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
I hear you and I'm a proud supporter of NVDA. Here's my thinking though, and I'm sure it won't be popular but here goes.

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to head the project. Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built into windows. That really rips up the open source model and that's bad; however, It trades narrater for a high end professional product for windows users across the board. It could also be that in this sinareo, usb drivers for many supported braille displays would become plug and play supported with windows via the built in NVDA. That would really be huge for some one like John. Suddenly a person who is deaf-blind could have access to install or upgrade their own copy of windows, handle their own registration, and not have to have a sighted person drop buy to download packages off the internet and fiddle with wizards.

Apple desktop and mobile solutions already have this and android as it as well. Windows is way behind and acquiring NVDA could be a great way to catch up to the pack as long as the quality of the product continues to be high.

Best,

Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!
<http://www.theoutofworkbum.work>http://www.theoutofworkbum.work
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:
<http://www.inclusiveandroid.com>http://www.inclusiveandroid.com

On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:11 AM, multi 85 <<mailto:multi851@...>multi851@...<mailto:multi851@...>> wrote:

Now there really is a David versus Goliath and thank goodness for
NVDA, because we'd definitely have very little innovation with this
new move if NVDA didn't exist. Must support.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ai-squared-joins-vfo-home-of-freedom-scientific-and-optelec-300284405.html







--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
John J. Boyer; President,
AbilitiesSoft, Inc.
Email: john.boyer@...
Website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: 501(C)(3) Nonprofit
Location: Madison, Wisconsin USA
Mission: To develop softwares and provide STEM services for people with
disabilities which are available at no cost.


Arianna Sepulveda
 

To be fair, you can turn off automatic forms mode in JAWS.

Thanks,
Ari

On Jun 14, 2016, at 2:29 PM, Chris Shook via Groups.io <cshook0309@...> wrote:

One thing you have to agree with is that NVDA is ten times the screen reader that JAWS. That automatic forms mode is a pain. It activates whenever there's a forms field.
If Mocrosoft bought NVDA, that would solve their screen reader problem. Let NVDA continue to do their work with the screen reader aspect, and they just touch base with Microsoft to make sure everything works.
Chris


On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:58 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:


I guess also it would solve a lot of access problems as well around the world. I mean as to go up to any computer any where running Windows and use a screen reader. You can not really say narrator is one or if it is very basic. funny thing is that I did not know how many shortcuts etc it actually had until I looked at a list of shortcuts for it.
That is narrator.
If that was to happen they don't want it locked down you still want them to innovate.


Then again there is no reason why a government or governments can not just buy this project and pay there wages and flick off all the stuff that is plugged into the government
I mean as in a lot of countries there are certain projects for the blind and visually impaired that get there funding from the government no names mentioned.

These times are changing and hopefully prices will come down for adaptive technologies or the smart phone will do a lot more for us.

For example the new braille orbit reader that is coming out and will it be supported by NVDA?

Gene nz


 like we have here.


On 15/06/2016 7:07 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
I hear you and I'm a proud supporter of NVDA.  Here's my thinking though, and I'm sure it won't be popular but here goes.

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to head the project.  Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built into windows.  That really rips up the open source model and that's bad; however, It trades narrater for a high end professional product for windows users across the board.  It could also be that in this sinareo, usb drivers for many supported braille displays would become plug and play supported with windows via the built in NVDA.  That would really be huge for some one like John.  Suddenly a person who is deaf-blind could have access to install or upgrade their own copy of windows, handle their own registration, and not have to have a sighted person drop buy to download packages off the internet and fiddle with wizards.

Apple desktop and mobile solutions already have this and android as it as well.  Windows is way behind and acquiring NVDA could be a great way to catch up to the pack as long as the quality of the product continues to be high.

Best,

Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!  
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:

On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:11 AM, multi 85 <multi851@...> wrote:

Now there really is a David versus Goliath and thank goodness for
NVDA, because we'd definitely have very little innovation with this
new move if NVDA didn't exist. Must support.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ai-squared-joins-vfo-home-of-freedom-scientific-and-optelec-300284405.html





-- 
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net



erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Hmmm,  Well I don't agree that there wouldn't be anything in buying nvda for microsoft.  Right now, microsoft is spending a lot of money to re-invent the wheel.  Narrator was one of the first screen readers built into an operating system, and even in windows 10, look how far it hasn't come.  Accessibility doesn't really make apple very much money, especially not compared to what they spend on developing it.  The accessibility allows apple to keep it's high end government and education contracts and that's why we have it.  The fact that it's state of the art is great for us, and that tim cook gets to pat us on the head at wwdc is great for apple and everybody wins.  It's not for us though and never will be.  As long as it works, I'm willing to tollerate being a turtiary target market for the products I purchase.

As far as NVDA goes, I can't disagree with corporate sponsorship from companies using NVDA in the workplace as long as narrateor continues to be unviable.  That doesn't really solve the problem though which is that at the core, windows is inherantly inaccessible, and will continue to be so until it has a full suite of high quality accessibility features built in.  Incorporating nvda directly would be a huge piece in that puzzle.

Best,

Erik
Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!  
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:

On Jun 14, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Antony Stone <Antony.Stone@...> wrote:

What's in it for Microsoft to bother with such a move?

Do they sell more copies of Windows?  Very very marginally, perhaps.  They
seem to be giving Windows away for nothing these days anyway.

Will they gain market share over the competiton (ie: Apple)?  I don't think so
- Apple has a very good screen reader built in to iOS, and people who like
Apple will continue to use Apple; those who like Windows will continue to use
Windows.

No, NV Access doesn't need to be bought by Microsoft - it needs investment
from a company which can get NVDA used by the big corporates and public sector
who currently pay for JAWS licences, but could do so much better with an open
source licence-free solution.

As with all open source software, the market is in support, not in supplying
it in the first place (look at Red Hat and their business model).  Microsoft
has nothing to gain by acquiring NV Access, but someone with a brand name
behind them (so that they get taken seriously by large employers) and the
facilities to provide support for NVDA could do very well, both for themselves
and for NV Access.


Well, that's my opinion, anyway.


Antony.

On Tuesday 14 June 2016 at 21:07:44, erik burggraaf wrote:

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to
head the project.  Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built
into windows.

--
A user interface is like a joke.
If you have to explain it, it didn't work.

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.





John J. Boyer
 

As I understand it, NVDA is maintained by a nonprofit and its community.
It can't be sold. However, I hear that Microsoft has partnered with
Cannon to include parts of Ubuntu in Windows 10, so they could partner
with nvaccess as wel. That would certainly be a good idea.

John

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 04:59:05PM -0700, Erik Burggraaf wrote:
Hmmm, Well I don't agree that there wouldn't be anything in buying nvda for microsoft. Right now, microsoft is spending a lot of money to re-invent the wheel. Narrator was one of the first screen readers built into an operating system, and even in windows 10, look how far it hasn't come. Accessibility doesn't really make apple very much money, especially not compared to what they spend on developing it. The accessibility allows apple to keep it's high end government and education contracts and that's why we have it. The fact that it's state of the art is great for us, and that tim cook gets to pat us on the head at wwdc is great for apple and everybody wins. It's not for us though and never will be. As long as it works, I'm willing to tollerate being a turtiary target market for the products I purchase.

As far as NVDA goes, I can't disagree with corporate sponsorship from companies using NVDA in the workplace as long as narrateor continues to be unviable. That doesn't really solve the problem though which is that at the core, windows is inherantly inaccessible, and will continue to be so until it has a full suite of high quality accessibility features built in. Incorporating nvda directly would be a huge piece in that puzzle.

Best,

Erik
Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!
http://www.theoutofworkbum.work
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:
http://www.inclusiveandroid.com

On Jun 14, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Antony Stone <Antony.Stone@...> wrote:

What's in it for Microsoft to bother with such a move?

Do they sell more copies of Windows? Very very marginally, perhaps. They
seem to be giving Windows away for nothing these days anyway.

Will they gain market share over the competiton (ie: Apple)? I don't think so
- Apple has a very good screen reader built in to iOS, and people who like
Apple will continue to use Apple; those who like Windows will continue to use
Windows.

No, NV Access doesn't need to be bought by Microsoft - it needs investment
from a company which can get NVDA used by the big corporates and public sector
who currently pay for JAWS licences, but could do so much better with an open
source licence-free solution.

As with all open source software, the market is in support, not in supplying
it in the first place (look at Red Hat and their business model). Microsoft
has nothing to gain by acquiring NV Access, but someone with a brand name
behind them (so that they get taken seriously by large employers) and the
facilities to provide support for NVDA could do very well, both for themselves
and for NV Access.


Well, that's my opinion, anyway.


Antony.

On Tuesday 14 June 2016 at 21:07:44, erik burggraaf wrote:

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to
head the project. Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built
into windows.
--
A user interface is like a joke.
If you have to explain it, it didn't work.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


--
John J. Boyer; President,
AbilitiesSoft, Inc.
Email: john.boyer@...
Website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: 501(C)(3) Nonprofit
Location: Madison, Wisconsin USA
Mission: To develop softwares and provide STEM services for people with
disabilities which are available at no cost.


Gene
 

I don't have to agree with it.  You may not like certain default settings JAWS uses but that's a completely different question.

As has been said innumerable times before, they both have there advantages and disadvantages..
But I can make NVDA do certain things as a user that I cannot make JAWS do.  If I knew the necessary scripting language, I might be able to do so but user configurability is still an area in which NVDA is behind.  There may be technical reasons for this but I'm talking about what exists, not why. 

Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Interesting news

One thing you have to agree with is that NVDA is ten times the screen reader that JAWS. That automatic forms mode is a pain. It activates whenever there's a forms field.
If Mocrosoft bought NVDA, that would solve their screen reader problem. Let NVDA continue to do their work with the screen reader aspect, and they just touch base with Microsoft to make sure everything works.
Chris


On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:58 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:


I guess also it would solve a lot of access problems as well around the world. I mean as to go up to any computer any where running Windows and use a screen reader. You can not really say narrator is one or if it is very basic. funny thing is that I did not know how many shortcuts etc it actually had until I looked at a list of shortcuts for it.
That is narrator.
If that was to happen they don't want it locked down you still want them to innovate.


Then again there is no reason why a government or governments can not just buy this project and pay there wages and flick off all the stuff that is plugged into the government
I mean as in a lot of countries there are certain projects for the blind and visually impaired that get there funding from the government no names mentioned.

These times are changing and hopefully prices will come down for adaptive technologies or the smart phone will do a lot more for us.

For example the new braille orbit reader that is coming out and will it be supported by NVDA?

Gene nz


 like we have here.


On 15/06/2016 7:07 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
I hear you and I'm a proud supporter of NVDA.  Here's my thinking though, and I'm sure it won't be popular but here goes.

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to head the project.  Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built into windows.  That really rips up the open source model and that's bad; however, It trades narrater for a high end professional product for windows users across the board.  It could also be that in this sinareo, usb drivers for many supported braille displays would become plug and play supported with windows via the built in NVDA.  That would really be huge for some one like John.  Suddenly a person who is deaf-blind could have access to install or upgrade their own copy of windows, handle their own registration, and not have to have a sighted person drop buy to download packages off the internet and fiddle with wizards.

Apple desktop and mobile solutions already have this and android as it as well.  Windows is way behind and acquiring NVDA could be a great way to catch up to the pack as long as the quality of the product continues to be high.

Best,

Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!  
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:

On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:11 AM, multi 85 <multi851@...> wrote:

Now there really is a David versus Goliath and thank goodness for
NVDA, because we'd definitely have very little innovation with this
new move if NVDA didn't exist. Must support.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ai-squared-joins-vfo-home-of-freedom-scientific-and-optelec-300284405.html





-- 
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net



David Moore
 

Hi,
I have always said that one should use JAWS, NVDA, and even Narrator. All three screen readers can do a task that the other two cannot. JAWS can do tasks that NVDA cannot do, like putting all the words in a document into a list, but NVDA can allow one to navigate the screen with the mouse much more than JAWS. Narrator works great in the win10 Mail app, for example. So, it is not one screenreader over another, it is using all of the tools to maximize what you can do and be efficient.
Take care.
 
 

From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Interesting news
 
I don't have to agree with it.  You may not like certain default settings JAWS uses but that's a completely different question.

As has been said innumerable times before, they both have there advantages and disadvantages..
But I can make NVDA do certain things as a user that I cannot make JAWS do.  If I knew the necessary scripting language, I might be able to do so but user configurability is still an area in which NVDA is behind.  There may be technical reasons for this but I'm talking about what exists, not why. 

Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Interesting news
 
One thing you have to agree with is that NVDA is ten times the screen reader that JAWS. That automatic forms mode is a pain. It activates whenever there's a forms field.
If Mocrosoft bought NVDA, that would solve their screen reader problem. Let NVDA continue to do their work with the screen reader aspect, and they just touch base with Microsoft to make sure everything works.
Chris


On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:58 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:


I guess also it would solve a lot of access problems as well around the world. I mean as to go up to any computer any where running Windows and use a screen reader. You can not really say narrator is one or if it is very basic. funny thing is that I did not know how many shortcuts etc it actually had until I looked at a list of shortcuts for it.
That is narrator.
If that was to happen they don't want it locked down you still want them to innovate.


Then again there is no reason why a government or governments can not just buy this project and pay there wages and flick off all the stuff that is plugged into the government
I mean as in a lot of countries there are certain projects for the blind and visually impaired that get there funding from the government no names mentioned.

These times are changing and hopefully prices will come down for adaptive technologies or the smart phone will do a lot more for us.

For example the new braille orbit reader that is coming out and will it be supported by NVDA?

Gene nz


like we have here.


On 15/06/2016 7:07 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
I hear you and I'm a proud supporter of NVDA.  Here's my thinking though, and I'm sure it won't be popular but here goes.
 
Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to head the project.  Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built into windows.  That really rips up the open source model and that's bad; however, It trades narrater for a high end professional product for windows users across the board.  It could also be that in this sinareo, usb drivers for many supported braille displays would become plug and play supported with windows via the built in NVDA.  That would really be huge for some one like John.  Suddenly a person who is deaf-blind could have access to install or upgrade their own copy of windows, handle their own registration, and not have to have a sighted person drop buy to download packages off the internet and fiddle with wizards.
 
Apple desktop and mobile solutions already have this and android as it as well.  Windows is way behind and acquiring NVDA could be a great way to catch up to the pack as long as the quality of the product continues to be high.
 
Best,
 
Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android! 
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:
 
On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:11 AM, multi 85 <multi851@...> wrote:
 
Now there really is a David versus Goliath and thank goodness for
NVDA, because we'd definitely have very little innovation with this
new move if NVDA didn't exist. Must support.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ai-squared-joins-vfo-home-of-freedom-scientific-and-optelec-300284405.html



 

-- 
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net



Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

The snag is that one would need to know who would maintain and test it. I'm sure that if Msoft did a deal with all screenreader companies to point at their latest versions and pricing it could be done that way. Increasingly, all software is supplied on line, and even dvds tend to include competing products such as firefox etc, so there is no real need to let nvda be 'owned' by a company.
Microsoft have no track record of making their new APIs available far enough in the future, or bug free enough for screenreader makeers to get to grips with it.
It would not be any better if it were theirs, as has been proved by Narrator.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Interesting news


Hmmm, Well I don't agree that there wouldn't be anything in buying nvda for microsoft. Right now, microsoft is spending a lot of money to re-invent the wheel. Narrator was one of the first screen readers built into an operating system, and even in windows 10, look how far it hasn't come. Accessibility doesn't really make apple very much money, especially not compared to what they spend on developing it. The accessibility allows apple to keep it's high end government and education contracts and that's why we have it. The fact that it's state of the art is great for us, and that tim cook gets to pat us on the head at wwdc is great for apple and everybody wins. It's not for us though and never will be. As long as it works, I'm willing to tollerate being a turtiary target market for the products I purchase.

As far as NVDA goes, I can't disagree with corporate sponsorship from companies using NVDA in the workplace as long as narrateor continues to be unviable. That doesn't really solve the problem though which is that at the core, windows is inherantly inaccessible, and will continue to be so until it has a full suite of high quality accessibility features built in. Incorporating nvda directly would be a huge piece in that puzzle.

Best,

Erik
Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!
http://www.theoutofworkbum.work
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:
http://www.inclusiveandroid.com

On Jun 14, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Antony Stone <Antony.Stone@...> wrote:

What's in it for Microsoft to bother with such a move?

Do they sell more copies of Windows? Very very marginally, perhaps. They
seem to be giving Windows away for nothing these days anyway.

Will they gain market share over the competiton (ie: Apple)? I don't think so
- Apple has a very good screen reader built in to iOS, and people who like
Apple will continue to use Apple; those who like Windows will continue to use
Windows.

No, NV Access doesn't need to be bought by Microsoft - it needs investment
from a company which can get NVDA used by the big corporates and public sector
who currently pay for JAWS licences, but could do so much better with an open
source licence-free solution.

As with all open source software, the market is in support, not in supplying
it in the first place (look at Red Hat and their business model). Microsoft
has nothing to gain by acquiring NV Access, but someone with a brand name
behind them (so that they get taken seriously by large employers) and the
facilities to provide support for NVDA could do very well, both for themselves
and for NV Access.


Well, that's my opinion, anyway.


Antony.

On Tuesday 14 June 2016 at 21:07:44, erik burggraaf wrote:

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to
head the project. Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built
into windows.
--
A user interface is like a joke.
If you have to explain it, it didn't work.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.



Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

not really that unexpected though is it.
In the end a small market is a small market, and it cannot support lots of players.
At the moment these companies are aiming third solutions at the workplace. This was also what Microsoft did with their free cut down licensing of Window eyes for Office of course.

Anyway, this is not really helping people use nvda is it?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "multi 85" <multi851@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Interesting news


Now there really is a David versus Goliath and thank goodness for
NVDA, because we'd definitely have very little innovation with this
new move if NVDA didn't exist. Must support.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ai-squared-joins-vfo-home-of-freedom-scientific-and-optelec-300284405.html


Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

Yes its a mess is it not. I personally don't really care, but can see that in this context it is going to be an issue at least morally for thelarge company. My view is that perhaps, the latest version of Window Eyes will be the last one, and some financial incentive to change over will be offered to those who are on the scheme.
Doubt it would last long though. Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Interesting news


Mac OSX VoiceOver recognizes my Pac Mate display as soon as it is
plugged in. On Debian Linux the installation disk recognizes my Braille
display as soon as the load process begins. It is weird that Windows
does not have a built-in screenreader that can do the same.

I think my sighted assistant messed up NVDA. It isn't working. I'm
getting professional help to try to get some screenreader working on my
Windows computer.

My experiences with Freedom Scientific technical support have not been
positive. Their customer service has deteriorated since they were
acquired by vfo-group. it's the usual story of an acquiring company
trying to save money in the short-term and sacrificing long-term
profits.

John

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 04:07:26PM -0400, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,


I wonder what all those folks who bought MS Office for the free Window-Eyes
are going to do? I use Office on a regular basis, so I don't mind the C
note or so every year, but in addition, I thought I was getting a free copy
of Window-Eyes as a back up to NVDA. I can't see that being continued if
JAWS is still going to be sold at 900 Plus dollars and upgrade for A C note
a year. It would create an obvious conflict of interest for the now merged
giants.



On 6/14/2016 3:58 PM, Gene New Zealand wrote:
I guess also it would solve a lot of access problems as well around the world. I mean as to go up to any computer any where running Windows and use a screen reader. You can not really say narrator is one or if it is very basic. funny thing is that I did not know how many shortcuts etc it actually had until I looked at a list of shortcuts for it.

That is narrator.

If that was to happen they don't want it locked down you still want them to innovate.


Then again there is no reason why a government or governments can not just buy this project and pay there wages and flick off all the stuff that is plugged into the government
I mean as in a lot of countries there are certain projects for the blind and visually impaired that get there funding from the government no names mentioned.

These times are changing and hopefully prices will come down for adaptive technologies or the smart phone will do a lot more for us.

For example the new braille orbit reader that is coming out and will it be supported by NVDA?

Gene nz


like we have here.


On 15/06/2016 7:07 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
I hear you and I'm a proud supporter of NVDA. Here's my thinking though, and I'm sure it won't be popular but here goes.

Microsoft should buy NVDA for a huge sum of money and hire mic and James to head the project. Narrater should be scrapped and NVDA should be built into windows. That really rips up the open source model and that's bad; however, It trades narrater for a high end professional product for windows users across the board. It could also be that in this sinareo, usb drivers for many supported braille displays would become plug and play supported with windows via the built in NVDA. That would really be huge for some one like John. Suddenly a person who is deaf-blind could have access to install or upgrade their own copy of windows, handle their own registration, and not have to have a sighted person drop buy to download packages off the internet and fiddle with wizards.

Apple desktop and mobile solutions already have this and android as it as well. Windows is way behind and acquiring NVDA could be a great way to catch up to the pack as long as the quality of the product continues to be high.

Best,

Erik Burggraaf
Visit the out of work bum for your chance to win one of 10 KNFB Reader or Nearby Explorer for IOS or android!
<http://www.theoutofworkbum.work>http://www.theoutofworkbum.work
Also check out my website for inclusion to the android platform for persons with sensery, physical or cognitive disabilities:
<http://www.inclusiveandroid.com>http://www.inclusiveandroid.com

On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:11 AM, multi 85 <<mailto:multi851@...>multi851@...<mailto:multi851@...>> wrote:

Now there really is a David versus Goliath and thank goodness for
NVDA, because we'd definitely have very little innovation with this
new move if NVDA didn't exist. Must support.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ai-squared-joins-vfo-home-of-freedom-scientific-and-optelec-300284405.html







--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
John J. Boyer; President,
AbilitiesSoft, Inc.
Email: john.boyer@...
Website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: 501(C)(3) Nonprofit
Location: Madison, Wisconsin USA
Mission: To develop softwares and provide STEM services for people with
disabilities which are available at no cost.