Topics

[NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


蔡宗豪 Victor Cai
 

Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai


 

Hi,
Some developers are working on fixes for upcoming Anniversary Update. Please hold off until NVDA 2016.3 is released.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ??? Victor Cai
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 7:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10

Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai


Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

One of the options seems to be that new versions of win 10 come along and break accessibility in some cases.
I don't think this occurs though if you just take windows updates and not whole new builds such as insiders get.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "蔡宗豪 Victor Cai" <surfer0627@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 3:13 AM
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai


 

One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
I can defur the systems I have on pro into the non upgrade branch for a time but as I can't justify defuring a remote for the only reason that I can't access it since I only maintain those, I would like to have the systems I let upgrade, upgraded so I could see what was what.
The only good thing is as long as search works, the settings app, ie, and the desktop I could get buy while you worked with things.

On 1/07/2016 8:06 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
One of the options seems to be that new versions of win 10 come along
and break accessibility in some cases.
I don't think this occurs though if you just take windows updates and
not whole new builds such as insiders get.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "蔡宗豪 Victor Cai"
<surfer0627@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 3:13 AM
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a
computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai





John Sanfilippo <john.sanfilippo@...>
 

Hello,


Just for a little perspective, I'm running a Macbook Air with Windows 10 since about a month after Windows 10 came out, and of course, my screen access is NVDA. I'm quite happy with it.


What doesn't work, I just avoid. Even so, I think it works just fine.


js

On 7/1/16 9:30, Shaun Everiss wrote:
One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
I can defur the systems I have on pro into the non upgrade branch for a time but as I can't justify defuring a remote for the only reason that I can't access it since I only maintain those, I would like to have the systems I let upgrade, upgraded so I could see what was what.
The only good thing is as long as search works, the settings app, ie, and the desktop I could get buy while you worked with things.



On 1/07/2016 8:06 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
One of the options seems to be that new versions of win 10 come along
and break accessibility in some cases.
I don't think this occurs though if you just take windows updates and
not whole new builds such as insiders get.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "蔡宗豪 Victor Cai"
<surfer0627@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 3:13 AM
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a
computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai







Antony Stone
 

Are you suggesting that Microsoft will at some point forcibly upgrade people's
machines from Windows 7 or 8 to Windows 10?

I know there's a free upgrade available, but it's the user's choice whether to
accept it.

If Microsoft have stated that this will one day become a compulsory upgrade,
please point me to any reference confirming this.


Thanks,


Antony.

On Friday 01 July 2016 at 10:30:16, Shaun Everiss wrote:

One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it
upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
--
I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design: One way
is to make it so simple that there are _obviously_ no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no _obvious_
deficiencies.

- C A R Hoare

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

For the record and reading some of the chatter elsewhere there seems to be
several issues here. Firstly, the dodgy access does not just affect nvda, it
tends to affect all the screenreaders. There is an inferred criticism from
Microsoft that they should be using the new api developed for Edge etc, to
get around these issues not the older uia or msaa. However as has been
pointed out by manufacturers of the screenreaders, since the Edge api has been buggy and altered so often, it would mean continual updates of the screenreaders when it got broken, so best to use thedevil you know.
The real issue from my point of view as an outsider is that Microsoft should have actually got this working properly before they unleashed the operating system at all, so its all their fault,but that is me saying that, and I'm not party to secret discussions behind the scenes.
There has been and still is a rumour circulating that Windows will have its own inbuilt screenreader 'shortly'.
However if the evolution seen or rather not seen in Narrator is anything to go by, its not even close yet.
Maybe they are buying the rights to Window Eyes instead who knows.

I have one machine with 10 on it and it is not so much the lack of accessibility I find annoying but the way it seems to stop you doing many things you should be able to do as an admin in the past, and of course the reliance on those tonka toy designed ribbon menues.
Brian


bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Sanfilippo" <john.sanfilippo@verizon.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hello,


Just for a little perspective, I'm running a Macbook Air with Windows 10
since about a month after Windows 10 came out, and of course, my screen
access is NVDA. I'm quite happy with it.


What doesn't work, I just avoid. Even so, I think it works just fine.


js




On 7/1/16 9:30, Shaun Everiss wrote:
One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it
upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
I can defur the systems I have on pro into the non upgrade branch for a
time but as I can't justify defuring a remote for the only reason that I
can't access it since I only maintain those, I would like to have the
systems I let upgrade, upgraded so I could see what was what.
The only good thing is as long as search works, the settings app, ie, and
the desktop I could get buy while you worked with things.



On 1/07/2016 8:06 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
One of the options seems to be that new versions of win 10 come along
and break accessibility in some cases.
I don't think this occurs though if you just take windows updates and
not whole new builds such as insiders get.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "蔡宗豪 Victor Cai"
<surfer0627@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 3:13 AM
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a
computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai








Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

All I can tell you is that our charity office had the we are going to update your machine to windows 10 on, and a date, is this OK to the operator hit no, and went and had a cup of tea, only to find it mid way into the update when she got back. Another machine said this so they answered yes and nothing happened until everyone had forgotten and the date came and it started to update.
Myself I have now used never 10 on the two machines running 7, though since removing the windows update that cased the nags I've not seen this prompt as described. its got something also to do with that setting windows anytime upgrade as well I am told but I turned off messages ago. I now have a very long list of not critical but suggested updates I could install. it installs the critical ones without asking of course.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <Antony.Stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Are you suggesting that Microsoft will at some point forcibly upgrade people's
machines from Windows 7 or 8 to Windows 10?

I know there's a free upgrade available, but it's the user's choice whether to
accept it.

If Microsoft have stated that this will one day become a compulsory upgrade,
please point me to any reference confirming this.


Thanks,


Antony.

On Friday 01 July 2016 at 10:30:16, Shaun Everiss wrote:

One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it
upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
--
I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design: One way
is to make it so simple that there are _obviously_ no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no _obvious_
deficiencies.

- C A R Hoare

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


 

Which is why I havn't bothered upgrading.with 3 or so weeks left I won't be upgrading.
And if this continues I may never upgrade again at all security be damned.
10 started out as something large, and cool, but there are just to many things wrong with it to call it a good os.

On 2/07/2016 8:43 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
For the record and reading some of the chatter elsewhere there seems to be
several issues here. Firstly, the dodgy access does not just affect
nvda, it
tends to affect all the screenreaders. There is an inferred criticism from
Microsoft that they should be using the new api developed for Edge etc, to
get around these issues not the older uia or msaa. However as has been
pointed out by manufacturers of the screenreaders, since the Edge api
has been buggy and altered so often, it would mean continual updates of
the screenreaders when it got broken, so best to use thedevil you know.
The real issue from my point of view as an outsider is that Microsoft
should have actually got this working properly before they unleashed the
operating system at all, so its all their fault,but that is me saying
that, and I'm not party to secret discussions behind the scenes.
There has been and still is a rumour circulating that Windows will have
its own inbuilt screenreader 'shortly'.
However if the evolution seen or rather not seen in Narrator is anything
to go by, its not even close yet.
Maybe they are buying the rights to Window Eyes instead who knows.

I have one machine with 10 on it and it is not so much the lack of
accessibility I find annoying but the way it seems to stop you doing
many things you should be able to do as an admin in the past, and of
course the reliance on those tonka toy designed ribbon menues.
Brian


bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Sanfilippo"
<john.sanfilippo@verizon.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hello,


Just for a little perspective, I'm running a Macbook Air with Windows 10
since about a month after Windows 10 came out, and of course, my screen
access is NVDA. I'm quite happy with it.


What doesn't work, I just avoid. Even so, I think it works just fine.


js




On 7/1/16 9:30, Shaun Everiss wrote:
One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it
upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
I can defur the systems I have on pro into the non upgrade branch for a
time but as I can't justify defuring a remote for the only reason that I
can't access it since I only maintain those, I would like to have the
systems I let upgrade, upgraded so I could see what was what.
The only good thing is as long as search works, the settings app, ie, and
the desktop I could get buy while you worked with things.



On 1/07/2016 8:06 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
One of the options seems to be that new versions of win 10 come along
and break accessibility in some cases.
I don't think this occurs though if you just take windows updates and
not whole new builds such as insiders get.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "蔡宗豪 Victor Cai"
<surfer0627@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 3:13 AM
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the
case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a
computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai














Pascal Lambert
 

Well said. I am still not convinced of the advantage of Win10 over Win7. I'll wait for the August update to decide whether I'll ditch it or not.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10

For the record and reading some of the chatter elsewhere there seems to be several issues here. Firstly, the dodgy access does not just affect nvda, it tends to affect all the screenreaders. There is an inferred criticism from Microsoft that they should be using the new api developed for Edge etc, to get around these issues not the older uia or msaa. However as has been pointed out by manufacturers of the screenreaders, since the Edge api has been buggy and altered so often, it would mean continual updates of the screenreaders when it got broken, so best to use thedevil you know.
The real issue from my point of view as an outsider is that Microsoft should have actually got this working properly before they unleashed the operating system at all, so its all their fault,but that is me saying that, and I'm not party to secret discussions behind the scenes.
There has been and still is a rumour circulating that Windows will have its own inbuilt screenreader 'shortly'.
However if the evolution seen or rather not seen in Narrator is anything to go by, its not even close yet.
Maybe they are buying the rights to Window Eyes instead who knows.

I have one machine with 10 on it and it is not so much the lack of accessibility I find annoying but the way it seems to stop you doing many things you should be able to do as an admin in the past, and of course the reliance on those tonka toy designed ribbon menues.
Brian


bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Sanfilippo" <john.sanfilippo@verizon.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hello,


Just for a little perspective, I'm running a Macbook Air with Windows 10
since about a month after Windows 10 came out, and of course, my screen
access is NVDA. I'm quite happy with it.


What doesn't work, I just avoid. Even so, I think it works just fine.


js




On 7/1/16 9:30, Shaun Everiss wrote:
One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it
upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
I can defur the systems I have on pro into the non upgrade branch for a
time but as I can't justify defuring a remote for the only reason that I
can't access it since I only maintain those, I would like to have the
systems I let upgrade, upgraded so I could see what was what.
The only good thing is as long as search works, the settings app, ie, and
the desktop I could get buy while you worked with things.



On 1/07/2016 8:06 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
One of the options seems to be that new versions of win 10 come along
and break accessibility in some cases.
I don't think this occurs though if you just take windows updates and
not whole new builds such as insiders get.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "蔡宗豪 Victor Cai"
<surfer0627@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 3:13 AM
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a
computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai








Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

Yes the funny red x ting isnowbeing added to by a no don't update button according to TechTalk from rnib this week assomebody in the states took Microsoft to court over lost income and work when the auto update failed. They settledout of courrt for 10000 dollars I understand.
Hence the sudden U turn on compulsary updating.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account" <bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


All I can tell you is that our charity office had the we are going to update your machine to windows 10 on, and a date, is this OK to the operator hit no, and went and had a cup of tea, only to find it mid way into the update when she got back. Another machine said this so they answered yes and nothing happened until everyone had forgotten and the date came and it started to update.
Myself I have now used never 10 on the two machines running 7, though since removing the windows update that cased the nags I've not seen this prompt as described. its got something also to do with that setting windows anytime upgrade as well I am told but I turned off messages ago. I now have a very long list of not critical but suggested updates I could install. it installs the critical ones without asking of course.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <Antony.Stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Are you suggesting that Microsoft will at some point forcibly upgrade people's
machines from Windows 7 or 8 to Windows 10?

I know there's a free upgrade available, but it's the user's choice whether to
accept it.

If Microsoft have stated that this will one day become a compulsory upgrade,
please point me to any reference confirming this.


Thanks,


Antony.

On Friday 01 July 2016 at 10:30:16, Shaun Everiss wrote:

One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it
upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
--
I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design: One way
is to make it so simple that there are _obviously_ no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no _obvious_
deficiencies.

- C A R Hoare

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.




Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

They are giving 'disabled users' an extra free month I understand, but how do they know? Presumably this is via their soopa Snoopa routines.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Which is why I havn't bothered upgrading.with 3 or so weeks left I won't be upgrading.
And if this continues I may never upgrade again at all security be damned.
10 started out as something large, and cool, but there are just to many things wrong with it to call it a good os.



On 2/07/2016 8:43 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
For the record and reading some of the chatter elsewhere there seems to be
several issues here. Firstly, the dodgy access does not just affect
nvda, it
tends to affect all the screenreaders. There is an inferred criticism from
Microsoft that they should be using the new api developed for Edge etc, to
get around these issues not the older uia or msaa. However as has been
pointed out by manufacturers of the screenreaders, since the Edge api
has been buggy and altered so often, it would mean continual updates of
the screenreaders when it got broken, so best to use thedevil you know.
The real issue from my point of view as an outsider is that Microsoft
should have actually got this working properly before they unleashed the
operating system at all, so its all their fault,but that is me saying
that, and I'm not party to secret discussions behind the scenes.
There has been and still is a rumour circulating that Windows will have
its own inbuilt screenreader 'shortly'.
However if the evolution seen or rather not seen in Narrator is anything
to go by, its not even close yet.
Maybe they are buying the rights to Window Eyes instead who knows.

I have one machine with 10 on it and it is not so much the lack of
accessibility I find annoying but the way it seems to stop you doing
many things you should be able to do as an admin in the past, and of
course the reliance on those tonka toy designed ribbon menues.
Brian


bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Sanfilippo"
<john.sanfilippo@verizon.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hello,


Just for a little perspective, I'm running a Macbook Air with Windows 10
since about a month after Windows 10 came out, and of course, my screen
access is NVDA. I'm quite happy with it.


What doesn't work, I just avoid. Even so, I think it works just fine.


js




On 7/1/16 9:30, Shaun Everiss wrote:
One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it
upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
I can defur the systems I have on pro into the non upgrade branch for a
time but as I can't justify defuring a remote for the only reason that I
can't access it since I only maintain those, I would like to have the
systems I let upgrade, upgraded so I could see what was what.
The only good thing is as long as search works, the settings app, ie, and
the desktop I could get buy while you worked with things.



On 1/07/2016 8:06 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
One of the options seems to be that new versions of win 10 come along
and break accessibility in some cases.
I don't think this occurs though if you just take windows updates and
not whole new builds such as insiders get.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "蔡宗豪 Victor Cai"
<surfer0627@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 3:13 AM
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the
case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a
computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai














Lenron
 

I use 10 on the daily no major issues. I am also running the latest
insider build as well. I just wish for a new pc running 10 out of the
box.

On 7/3/16, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
They are giving 'disabled users' an extra free month I understand, but how
do they know? Presumably this is via their soopa Snoopa routines.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Which is why I havn't bothered upgrading.with 3 or so weeks left I won't
be upgrading.
And if this continues I may never upgrade again at all security be
damned.
10 started out as something large, and cool, but there are just to many
things wrong with it to call it a good os.



On 2/07/2016 8:43 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
For the record and reading some of the chatter elsewhere there seems to
be
several issues here. Firstly, the dodgy access does not just affect
nvda, it
tends to affect all the screenreaders. There is an inferred criticism
from
Microsoft that they should be using the new api developed for Edge etc,
to
get around these issues not the older uia or msaa. However as has been
pointed out by manufacturers of the screenreaders, since the Edge api
has been buggy and altered so often, it would mean continual updates of
the screenreaders when it got broken, so best to use thedevil you know.
The real issue from my point of view as an outsider is that Microsoft
should have actually got this working properly before they unleashed the
operating system at all, so its all their fault,but that is me saying
that, and I'm not party to secret discussions behind the scenes.
There has been and still is a rumour circulating that Windows will have
its own inbuilt screenreader 'shortly'.
However if the evolution seen or rather not seen in Narrator is anything
to go by, its not even close yet.
Maybe they are buying the rights to Window Eyes instead who knows.

I have one machine with 10 on it and it is not so much the lack of
accessibility I find annoying but the way it seems to stop you doing
many things you should be able to do as an admin in the past, and of
course the reliance on those tonka toy designed ribbon menues.
Brian


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----- Original Message ----- From: "John Sanfilippo"
<john.sanfilippo@verizon.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hello,


Just for a little perspective, I'm running a Macbook Air with Windows 10
since about a month after Windows 10 came out, and of course, my screen
access is NVDA. I'm quite happy with it.


What doesn't work, I just avoid. Even so, I think it works just fine.


js




On 7/1/16 9:30, Shaun Everiss wrote:
One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it
upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
I can defur the systems I have on pro into the non upgrade branch for a
time but as I can't justify defuring a remote for the only reason that
I
can't access it since I only maintain those, I would like to have the
systems I let upgrade, upgraded so I could see what was what.
The only good thing is as long as search works, the settings app, ie,
and
the desktop I could get buy while you worked with things.



On 1/07/2016 8:06 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
One of the options seems to be that new versions of win 10 come along
and break accessibility in some cases.
I don't think this occurs though if you just take windows updates and
not whole new builds such as insiders get.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "蔡宗豪 Victor Cai"
<surfer0627@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 3:13 AM
Subject: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Hi all,
Windows10 has been released for almost one year. Is this still the
case?

Here is a quote from NV Access (Last update: 5 April 2016 00:25 UTC):
we recommend that most users delay upgrading to or purchasing a
computer with Windows 10 until further notice.
resource from:
http://www.nvaccess.org/win10/

Regards,

Victor Cai

















--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


Chris
 

And now are very happy with their new windows 10 pc, thankyou microsoft!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account
Sent: 03 July 2016 13:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10

Yes the funny red x ting isnowbeing added to by a no don't update button
according to TechTalk from rnib this week assomebody in the states took
Microsoft to court over lost income and work when the auto update failed.
They settledout of courrt for 10000 dollars I understand.
Hence the sudden U turn on compulsary updating.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account" <bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


All I can tell you is that our charity office had the we are going to
update your machine to windows 10 on, and a date, is this OK to the
operator hit no, and went and had a cup of tea, only to find it mid way
into the update when she got back. Another machine said this so they
answered yes and nothing happened until everyone had forgotten and the
date came and it started to update.
Myself I have now used never 10 on the two machines running 7, though
since removing the windows update that cased the nags I've not seen this
prompt as described. its got something also to do with that setting
windows anytime upgrade as well I am told but I turned off messages ago. I
now have a very long list of not critical but suggested updates I could
install. it installs the critical ones without asking of course.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <Antony.Stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Are you suggesting that Microsoft will at some point forcibly upgrade
people's
machines from Windows 7 or 8 to Windows 10?

I know there's a free upgrade available, but it's the user's choice
whether to
accept it.

If Microsoft have stated that this will one day become a compulsory
upgrade,
please point me to any reference confirming this.


Thanks,


Antony.

On Friday 01 July 2016 at 10:30:16, Shaun Everiss wrote:

One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it
upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
--
I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design: One
way
is to make it so simple that there are _obviously_ no deficiencies, and
the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no _obvious_
deficiencies.

- C A R Hoare

Please reply to the
list;
please *don't* CC
me.





Pete <emac00@...>
 

Not having the optional updates selected in windows update on windows 7 64 bit pro I found is the easiest way to avoid the upgrade to windows 10 nag.

Pete

On 7/2/2016 4:52 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
All I can tell you is that our charity office had the we are going to update your machine to windows 10 on, and a date, is this OK to the operator hit no, and went and had a cup of tea, only to find it mid way into the update when she got back. Another machine said this so they answered yes and nothing happened until everyone had forgotten and the date came and it started to update.
Myself I have now used never 10 on the two machines running 7, though since removing the windows update that cased the nags I've not seen this prompt as described. its got something also to do with that setting windows anytime upgrade as well I am told but I turned off messages ago. I now have a very long list of not critical but suggested updates I could install. it installs the critical ones without asking of course.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Antony Stone" <Antony.Stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Are you suggesting that Microsoft will at some point forcibly upgrade people's
machines from Windows 7 or 8 to Windows 10?

I know there's a free upgrade available, but it's the user's choice whether to
accept it.

If Microsoft have stated that this will one day become a compulsory upgrade,
please point me to any reference confirming this.


Thanks,


Antony.

On Friday 01 July 2016 at 10:30:16, Shaun Everiss wrote:

One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it
upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
--
I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design: One way
is to make it so simple that there are _obviously_ no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no _obvious_
deficiencies.

- C A R Hoare

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.





Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

You can just use never10 of course. Its a simple toggle.
Then you still get the regular normal windows updates. I have also uninstalled the nag update and hidden it. Not that hard to do.
However on my machine which has windows 10/ classic shell on it, I wonder how one is supposed to review updates being offered. I've seen what is installed afterwards, but it seems pretty silent on the updates its quietly downloading and installing. The only time you notice is when you try to shut down and it spends ages fiddling about till it goes off.

I was wondering what happens when the anniversary update comes along next month. Is that machine going to get it and spend ages installing a new version without telling me I wonder?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete" <emac00@cogeco.ca>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10



Not having the optional updates selected in windows update on windows 7 64 bit pro I found is the easiest way to avoid the upgrade to windows 10 nag.

Pete


On 7/2/2016 4:52 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
All I can tell you is that our charity office had the we are going to update your machine to windows 10 on, and a date, is this OK to the operator hit no, and went and had a cup of tea, only to find it mid way into the update when she got back. Another machine said this so they answered yes and nothing happened until everyone had forgotten and the date came and it started to update.
Myself I have now used never 10 on the two machines running 7, though since removing the windows update that cased the nags I've not seen this prompt as described. its got something also to do with that setting windows anytime upgrade as well I am told but I turned off messages ago. I now have a very long list of not critical but suggested updates I could install. it installs the critical ones without asking of course.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Antony Stone" <Antony.Stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [NVDA] NVDA and Windows 10


Are you suggesting that Microsoft will at some point forcibly upgrade people's
machines from Windows 7 or 8 to Windows 10?

I know there's a free upgrade available, but it's the user's choice whether to
accept it.

If Microsoft have stated that this will one day become a compulsory upgrade,
please point me to any reference confirming this.


Thanks,


Antony.

On Friday 01 July 2016 at 10:30:16, Shaun Everiss wrote:

One thing though, nvda is going to have to support win10 by the time it
upgrades because home users will get it automatically.
--
I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design: One way
is to make it so simple that there are _obviously_ no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no _obvious_
deficiencies.

- C A R Hoare

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.