Touch cursor support


Ben J. Bloomgren
 

Hi all,


I'm really seeing the power of the Jaws touch cursor commands, and it makes me curious as to NVDA's capabilities. Does NVDA have such a thing, whether or not it have the same name as it does in Jaws?


By touch cursor, I mean where it'll give users without a touch screen very similar functionality to those with a touch screen using the keyboard only.


Thanks,


Ben


 

Hi Ben,
Yes, and it was here long before JAWS 15. In essence, touch cursor is JFW's implementation of object navigation and review cursor.
Important note: If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ben J. Bloomgren
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Touch cursor support

Hi all,


I'm really seeing the power of the Jaws touch cursor commands, and it makes me curious as to NVDA's capabilities. Does NVDA have such a thing, whether or not it have the same name as it does in Jaws?


By touch cursor, I mean where it'll give users without a touch screen very similar functionality to those with a touch screen using the keyboard only.


Thanks,


Ben


Greg Wocher
 

Hello,

Object nav does not seem to be the same as the touch cursor in JAWS. In JAWS for instance you can move just by buttons or form fields. Is it possible to add this type of functionallity to the object nav in NVDA?


Regards,

Greg Wocher

On 7/1/2016 2:18 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi Ben,
Yes, and it was here long before JAWS 15. In essence, touch cursor is JFW's implementation of object navigation and review cursor.
Important note: If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ben J. Bloomgren
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Touch cursor support

Hi all,


I'm really seeing the power of the Jaws touch cursor commands, and it makes me curious as to NVDA's capabilities. Does NVDA have such a thing, whether or not it have the same name as it does in Jaws?


By touch cursor, I mean where it'll give users without a touch screen very similar functionality to those with a touch screen using the keyboard only.


Thanks,


Ben






 

Joseph Lee wrote:  "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps."

Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example?

I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place."  I strongly suspect that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might have been completed.  I had one of those rare "throw up my hands and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA to "play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can.

Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



 

Hi,

A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app (Windows+I) where you do need to use object navigation to read descriptions of settings.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support

 

Joseph Lee wrote:  "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps."

Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example?

I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place."  I strongly suspect that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might have been completed.  I had one of those rare "throw up my hands and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA to "play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can.

Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    

 


 

Joseph,

           Thanks much.  I use Settings quite frequently and that would be an excellent sandbox!
--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

    



Ben J. Bloomgren
 

Hi Joseph,

Please pardon my ignorance, but is object navigation the same as the review cursor?

Ben

On Jul 1, 2016, at 11:18, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Ben,
Yes, and it was here long before JAWS 15. In essence, touch cursor is JFW's implementation of object navigation and review cursor.
Important note: If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ben J. Bloomgren
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Touch cursor support

Hi all,


I'm really seeing the power of the Jaws touch cursor commands, and it makes me curious as to NVDA's capabilities. Does NVDA have such a thing, whether or not it have the same name as it does in Jaws?


By touch cursor, I mean where it'll give users without a touch screen very similar functionality to those with a touch screen using the keyboard only.


Thanks,


Ben







 

Hi,
Object navigation is tied to review cursor like this:
* Object navigation allows you to navigate between controls.
* Review cursor allows you to examine the contents of a specific control.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ben J.
Bloomgren
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support

Hi Joseph,

Please pardon my ignorance, but is object navigation the same as the review
cursor?

Ben

On Jul 1, 2016, at 11:18, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Ben,
Yes, and it was here long before JAWS 15. In essence, touch cursor is
JFW's implementation of object navigation and review cursor.
Important note: If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object
navigation is essential when using newer style apps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ben J. Bloomgren
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Touch cursor support

Hi all,


I'm really seeing the power of the Jaws touch cursor commands, and it
makes me curious as to NVDA's capabilities. Does NVDA have such a thing,
whether or not it have the same name as it does in Jaws?


By touch cursor, I mean where it'll give users without a touch screen very
similar functionality to those with a touch screen using the keyboard only.


Thanks,


Ben







Ann Byrne
 

How is each one invoked?

At 04:03 PM 7/1/2016, you wrote:
Hi,
A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app (Windows+I) where you do need to use object navigation to read descriptions of settings.
Cheers,
Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support


Joseph Lee wrote: "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps."

Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example?

I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place." I strongly suspect that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might have been completed. I had one of those rare "throw up my hands and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA to "play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can.

Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"





Gene
 

It's easier, in my opinion, to demonstrate how object navigation works than to try to explain it.  After it is demonstrated, an explanation might be helpful but I learned how to use object navigation by experimentation with very little reliance on explanations. 
 
Do the following:
This discussion uses the desktop keyboard layout.  I don't use the laptop layout and am notfamiliar with it. 
Issue the command numpad insert numpad 7.  That is, hold numpad insert and while doing so press 7.  Do this until you have moved through the review options you can move to in that way.  Then move back using numpad insert numpad one.  Stop at object navigation. 
Now, open some simple program everyone has on their computer.  Let's use Notepad. 
Write the word "test."
Now, issue the command numpad insert numpad 4.  You will move from the document window to another part of the program. 
Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 6.  You are back in the document window again.  You have moved first to a different object, then back to the document window, the object you started on.
Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 8. 
You have moved out of the document window and are now at an object that says untitled notepad window.  Move up again with the same command.  I'm not sure what you will hear depending on your version of Windows.  You may hear desktop window.  Try moving to the left and right by object with numpad 4 and 6. At least on my machine, I hear no next, no previous.  
So move down one level again with numpad insert numpad 2.  On my machine, I can't move to the left but I can move to the right from where I am.  If I move to the right enough times, I get to untitled notepad window again.  
Move down once to get back into the Notepad program.  Start moving to the right, I don't think you can move to the left.  If you move enough times, you will be back in the edit field with the word test you wrote awhile ago.
 
The point is that you first moved to the window, then continuing to move down you moved into the window and then moved right object by object until you got back into the edit field.  
 
Experiment and look around.  You may find that by looking around and experimenting, things start to make sense as you conceptualize what you are doing as you move.  
Try moving around using the move left and right commands and moving up and down and then using the move left and right commands.  Note that you can move to a lot of structures.  Some you can move into and some you can't because you are already in them.
 
If you get lost, you can always return to the program window where you started by alt tabbing out of and then alt tabbing until you return to the window. 
 
This demonstration may not explain things technically precisely accurately in terms of definitions.  I'm not sure I know exactly how to explain everything technically accurately.  The point is to experiment and get a concept of what you are doing by experimentation and observation.    
 
This may or may not allow you to understand everything.  But this kind of experimentation, along with working with a good tutorial section that explains object navigation may allow you to understand it.
 
Also, note carefully that if you leave NVDA set to screen review, you can't review the screen accurately much of the time if you intend to move somewhere and then use the standard review commands such as numpad 8 read current line.  You must have NVDA set for object navigation to have review work reliably.  I have said before that most NVDA users don't and won't understand this and that you should automatically be returned to object review when you leave the window you are in.  I still feel strongly about this. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Byrne
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support

How is each one invoked?
At 04:03 PM 7/1/2016, you wrote:
>Hi,
>A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app
>(Windows+I) where you do need to use object
>navigation to read descriptions of settings.
>Cheers,
>Joseph
>
>From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
>Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
>To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support
>
>
>Joseph Lee wrote:  "If you are using Windows 8,
>8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps."
>
>Joseph, is there any material somewhere that
>gives some discussion or examples of using
>object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example?
>
>I have not been able to get my arms around this,
>and it's probably because I'm trying to use it
>"in the wrong place."  I strongly suspect that
>had I known how to use these features the
>step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the
>Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might
>have been completed.  I had one of those rare
>"throw up my hands and walk away" moments
>because I could not figure out how to get NVDA
>to "play correctly" with the various pop-up
>overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can.
>
>Even if you could direct me to either an app or
>a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.
>
>--
>Brian
>
>I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how
>cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
>          ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for
> Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"
>
>
>
>
>





Rui Fontes
 

Hello!

Let me try to explain a litle more technically...

All windows are formed by several objects of various types...
By instance, NotePad is an object, composed by child objects: application
menu bar, system menu bar, text area and status bar.

When you are navigating by object, using NVDA+4, NVDA+5, NVDA+6, you are
moving to the prior object, reading the actual object or moving to the next
object.
So, using Gene example, you start in the text area, and with NVDA+4 you will
move to the application menu bar...

NVDA+8 lets you move to the object containing the actual one. Returning to
Gene example, you go to the Untitled NotePad window.
In this level, if you use NVDA+4 or NVDA+6 you will move between the several
windows you have open on your machine...
If you press again NVDA+8, you will go up another level and you'll reach the
Desktop, the object containing all window applications, start menu and so
on. As Gene pointed, as Desktop is the object containing all others, it is
not possible to move to the prior or next object in this level since it is
the only one in this level...

To return to the NotePad application you must go down one level, pressing
NVDA+2, and then NVDA+6 to walk through the various application windows
open.


If the object navigation is understood, we can move to the other navigation
methods, like screen review and document review...

Rui

-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Gene
Data: sbado, 2 de julho de 2016 01:14
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support


It's easier, in my opinion, to demonstrate how object navigation works than
to try to explain it. After it is demonstrated, an explanation might be
helpful but I learned how to use object navigation by experimentation with
very little reliance on explanations.

Do the following:
This discussion uses the desktop keyboard layout. I don't use the laptop
layout and am notfamiliar with it.
Issue the command numpad insert numpad 7. That is, hold numpad insert and
while doing so press 7. Do this until you have moved through the review
options you can move to in that way. Then move back using numpad insert
numpad one. Stop at object navigation.
Now, open some simple program everyone has on their computer. Let's use
Notepad.
Write the word "test."
Now, issue the command numpad insert numpad 4. You will move from the
document window to another part of the program.
Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 6. You are back in the document
window again. You have moved first to a different object, then back to the
document window, the object you started on.
Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 8.
You have moved out of the document window and are now at an object that says
untitled notepad window. Move up again with the same command. I'm not sure
what you will hear depending on your version of Windows. You may hear
desktop window. Try moving to the left and right by object with numpad 4
and 6. At least on my machine, I hear no next, no previous.
So move down one level again with numpad insert numpad 2. On my machine, I
can't move to the left but I can move to the right from where I am. If I
move to the right enough times, I get to untitled notepad window again.
Move down once to get back into the Notepad program. Start moving to the
right, I don't think you can move to the left. If you move enough times,
you will be back in the edit field with the word test you wrote awhile ago.

The point is that you first moved to the window, then continuing to move
down you moved into the window and then moved right object by object until
you got back into the edit field.

Experiment and look around. You may find that by looking around and
experimenting, things start to make sense as you conceptualize what you are
doing as you move.
Try moving around using the move left and right commands and moving up and
down and then using the move left and right commands. Note that you can
move to a lot of structures. Some you can move into and some you can't
because you are already in them.

If you get lost, you can always return to the program window where you
started by alt tabbing out of and then alt tabbing until you return to the
window.

This demonstration may not explain things technically precisely accurately
in terms of definitions. I'm not sure I know exactly how to explain
everything technically accurately. The point is to experiment and get a
concept of what you are doing by experimentation and observation.

This may or may not allow you to understand everything. But this kind of
experimentation, along with working with a good tutorial section that
explains object navigation may allow you to understand it.

Also, note carefully that if you leave NVDA set to screen review, you can't
review the screen accurately much of the time if you intend to move
somewhere and then use the standard review commands such as numpad 8 read
current line. You must have NVDA set for object navigation to have review
work reliably. I have said before that most NVDA users don't and won't
understand this and that you should automatically be returned to object
review when you leave the window you are in. I still feel strongly about
this.

Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Byrne
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support

How is each one invoked?
At 04:03 PM 7/1/2016, you wrote:
Hi,
A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app
(Windows+I) where you do need to use object
navigation to read descriptions of settings.
Cheers,
Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support


Joseph Lee wrote: "If you are using Windows 8,
8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style
apps."

Joseph, is there any material somewhere that
gives some discussion or examples of using
object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example?

I have not been able to get my arms around this,
and it's probably because I'm trying to use it
"in the wrong place." I strongly suspect that
had I known how to use these features the
step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the
Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might
have been completed. I had one of those rare
"throw up my hands and walk away" moments
because I could not figure out how to get NVDA
to "play correctly" with the various pop-up
overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can.

Even if you could direct me to either an app or
a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how
cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for
Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"





Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

Does anyone know how to interact with the auto opening app in windows 7for available networks which in the system tray. Unless you cursor over it fast, it just blots the screen out with an apparently empty shell of a window, though sighted people tell me this is not so. Why it should auto open when you clearly do not click anything is most odd, but I have two 7 machines here with the same problem.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support


Hi,

A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app (Windows+I) where you do need to use object navigation to read descriptions of settings.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support



Joseph Lee wrote: "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps."

Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example?

I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place." I strongly suspect that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might have been completed. I had one of those rare "throw up my hands and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA to "play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can.

Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.

~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"


Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

So do I, I get caught out mostly when I try to do a say all but leave the actual cursor alone which comes out normally as numpad plus, but if you are in the wrong navigation mode you get random results.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support


It's easier, in my opinion, to demonstrate how object navigation works than to try to explain it. After it is demonstrated, an explanation might be helpful but I learned how to use object navigation by experimentation with very little reliance on explanations.

Do the following:
This discussion uses the desktop keyboard layout. I don't use the laptop layout and am notfamiliar with it.
Issue the command numpad insert numpad 7. That is, hold numpad insert and while doing so press 7. Do this until you have moved through the review options you can move to in that way. Then move back using numpad insert numpad one. Stop at object navigation.
Now, open some simple program everyone has on their computer. Let's use Notepad.
Write the word "test."
Now, issue the command numpad insert numpad 4. You will move from the document window to another part of the program.
Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 6. You are back in the document window again. You have moved first to a different object, then back to the document window, the object you started on.
Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 8.
You have moved out of the document window and are now at an object that says untitled notepad window. Move up again with the same command. I'm not sure what you will hear depending on your version of Windows. You may hear desktop window. Try moving to the left and right by object with numpad 4 and 6. At least on my machine, I hear no next, no previous.
So move down one level again with numpad insert numpad 2. On my machine, I can't move to the left but I can move to the right from where I am. If I move to the right enough times, I get to untitled notepad window again.
Move down once to get back into the Notepad program. Start moving to the right, I don't think you can move to the left. If you move enough times, you will be back in the edit field with the word test you wrote awhile ago.

The point is that you first moved to the window, then continuing to move down you moved into the window and then moved right object by object until you got back into the edit field.

Experiment and look around. You may find that by looking around and experimenting, things start to make sense as you conceptualize what you are doing as you move.
Try moving around using the move left and right commands and moving up and down and then using the move left and right commands. Note that you can move to a lot of structures. Some you can move into and some you can't because you are already in them.

If you get lost, you can always return to the program window where you started by alt tabbing out of and then alt tabbing until you return to the window.

This demonstration may not explain things technically precisely accurately in terms of definitions. I'm not sure I know exactly how to explain everything technically accurately. The point is to experiment and get a concept of what you are doing by experimentation and observation.

This may or may not allow you to understand everything. But this kind of experimentation, along with working with a good tutorial section that explains object navigation may allow you to understand it.

Also, note carefully that if you leave NVDA set to screen review, you can't review the screen accurately much of the time if you intend to move somewhere and then use the standard review commands such as numpad 8 read current line. You must have NVDA set for object navigation to have review work reliably. I have said before that most NVDA users don't and won't understand this and that you should automatically be returned to object review when you leave the window you are in. I still feel strongly about this.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Byrne
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support


How is each one invoked?
At 04:03 PM 7/1/2016, you wrote:
Hi,
A good example is Windows 10â?Ts Settings app
(Windows+I) where you do need to use object
navigation to read descriptions of settings.
Cheers,
Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support


Joseph Lee wrote: "If you are using Windows 8,
8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps."

Joseph, is there any material somewhere that
gives some discussion or examples of using
object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example?

I have not been able to get my arms around this,
and it's probably because I'm trying to use it
"in the wrong place." I strongly suspect that
had I known how to use these features the
step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the
Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might
have been completed. I had one of those rare
"throw up my hands and walk away" moments
because I could not figure out how to get NVDA
to "play correctly" with the various pop-up
overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can.

Even if you could direct me to either an app or
a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how
cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for
Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"





Ejaz Shah
 

This does not happen in Windows 10. So, at least that one is fixed in Windows 10.

On 7/2/2016 2:17 PM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Does anyone know how to interact with the auto opening app in windows 7for available networks which in the system tray. Unless you cursor over it fast, it just blots the screen out with an apparently empty shell of a window, though sighted people tell me this is not so. Why it should auto open when you clearly do not click anything is most odd, but I have two 7 machines here with the same problem.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support


Hi,

A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app (Windows+I) where you do need to use object navigation to read descriptions of settings.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support



Joseph Lee wrote: "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps."

Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example?

I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place." I strongly suspect that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might have been completed. I had one of those rare "throw up my hands and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA to "play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can.

Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.


Gene
 

The system tray add on completely eliminates the problem.  It's far past time that this add on or equivalent comes as installed code with NVDA. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Ejaz Shah
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 4:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support

This does not happen in Windows 10. So, at least that one is fixed in
Windows 10.


On 7/2/2016 2:17 PM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
> Does anyone know how to interact with the auto opening app in windows
> 7for available networks which in the system tray. Unless you cursor
> over it fast, it just blots the screen out with an apparently empty
> shell of a window, though sighted people tell me this is not so. Why
> it should auto open when you clearly do not click anything is most
> odd, but I have two 7 machines here with the same problem.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
> <joseph.lee22590@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support
>
>
> Hi,
>
> A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app (Windows+I) where you do
> need to use object navigation to read descriptions of settings.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
> Brian Vogel
> Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support
>
>
>
> Joseph Lee wrote:  "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of
> object navigation is essential when using newer style apps."
>
> Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or
> examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some
> "real world" example?
>
> I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably
> because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place."  I strongly suspect
> that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza
> ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create
> might have been completed. I had one of those rare "throw up my hands
> and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA
> to "play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm
> almost certain it can.
>
> Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a
> good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.
>




 

no its just a status window.
you can't interact with it.
you just open and close the start menu quickly then its normal.

On 2/07/2016 9:17 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Does anyone know how to interact with the auto opening app in windows
7for available networks which in the system tray. Unless you cursor over
it fast, it just blots the screen out with an apparently empty shell of
a window, though sighted people tell me this is not so. Why it should
auto open when you clearly do not click anything is most odd, but I have
two 7 machines here with the same problem.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support


Hi,

A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app (Windows+I) where you do
need to use object navigation to read descriptions of settings.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support



Joseph Lee wrote: "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object
navigation is essential when using newer style apps."

Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or
examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some
"real world" example?

I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably
because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place." I strongly suspect
that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza
ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create
might have been completed. I had one of those rare "throw up my hands
and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA to
"play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm almost
certain it can.

Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a good
sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.


Gene
 

It autoopens because it interprets you moving to it in the same way as though you were hovering a mouse over it, at least that's my interpretation.  Why this icon reacts in this way is something I don't know. 
 
But the fact that the problem doesn't exist with the system tray dialog add on is more than sufficient reason for me to use the add on.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support

no its just a status window.
you can't interact with it.
you just open and close the start menu quickly then its normal.



On 2/07/2016 9:17 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
> Does anyone know how to interact with the auto opening app in windows
> 7for available networks which in the system tray. Unless you cursor over
> it fast, it just blots the screen out with an apparently empty shell of
> a window, though sighted people tell me this is not so. Why it should
> auto open when you clearly do not click anything is most odd, but I have
> two 7 machines here with the same problem.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support
>
>
> Hi,
>
> A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app (Windows+I) where you do
> need to use object navigation to read descriptions of settings.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
> Brian Vogel
> Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support
>
>
>
> Joseph Lee wrote:  "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object
> navigation is essential when using newer style apps."
>
> Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or
> examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some
> "real world" example?
>
> I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably
> because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place."  I strongly suspect
> that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza
> ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create
> might have been completed. I had one of those rare "throw up my hands
> and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA to
> "play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm almost
> certain it can.
>
> Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a good
> sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.
>



Pete <emac00@...>
 

 

  insert numpad 7 does not cycle threw options for me 

  the first press gets me screen review  the second press gets me no previous review mode 

  insert numpad 1 works simularly  the first press gets me object review and the next pres gets me no previous review mode 

  This is using nvda latest running on windows 7 64 bit pro. 

  Pete 



On 7/1/2016 8:14 PM, Gene wrote:
It's easier, in my opinion, to demonstrate how object navigation works than to try to explain it.  After it is demonstrated, an explanation might be helpful but I learned how to use object navigation by experimentation with very little reliance on explanations. 
 
Do the following:
This discussion uses the desktop keyboard layout.  I don't use the laptop layout and am notfamiliar with it. 
Issue the command numpad insert numpad 7.  That is, hold numpad insert and while doing so press 7.  Do this until you have moved through the review options you can move to in that way.  Then move back using numpad insert numpad one.  Stop at object navigation. 
Now, open some simple program everyone has on their computer.  Let's use Notepad. 
Write the word "test."
Now, issue the command numpad insert numpad 4.  You will move from the document window to another part of the program. 
Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 6.  You are back in the document window again.  You have moved first to a different object, then back to the document window, the object you started on.
Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 8. 
You have moved out of the document window and are now at an object that says untitled notepad window.  Move up again with the same command.  I'm not sure what you will hear depending on your version of Windows.  You may hear desktop window.  Try moving to the left and right by object with numpad 4 and 6. At least on my machine, I hear no next, no previous.  
So move down one level again with numpad insert numpad 2.  On my machine, I can't move to the left but I can move to the right from where I am.  If I move to the right enough times, I get to untitled notepad window again.  
Move down once to get back into the Notepad program.  Start moving to the right, I don't think you can move to the left.  If you move enough times, you will be back in the edit field with the word test you wrote awhile ago.
 
The point is that you first moved to the window, then continuing to move down you moved into the window and then moved right object by object until you got back into the edit field.  
 
Experiment and look around.  You may find that by looking around and experimenting, things start to make sense as you conceptualize what you are doing as you move.  
Try moving around using the move left and right commands and moving up and down and then using the move left and right commands.  Note that you can move to a lot of structures.  Some you can move into and some you can't because you are already in them.
 
If you get lost, you can always return to the program window where you started by alt tabbing out of and then alt tabbing until you return to the window. 
 
This demonstration may not explain things technically precisely accurately in terms of definitions.  I'm not sure I know exactly how to explain everything technically accurately.  The point is to experiment and get a concept of what you are doing by experimentation and observation.    
 
This may or may not allow you to understand everything.  But this kind of experimentation, along with working with a good tutorial section that explains object navigation may allow you to understand it.
 
Also, note carefully that if you leave NVDA set to screen review, you can't review the screen accurately much of the time if you intend to move somewhere and then use the standard review commands such as numpad 8 read current line.  You must have NVDA set for object navigation to have review work reliably.  I have said before that most NVDA users don't and won't understand this and that you should automatically be returned to object review when you leave the window you are in.  I still feel strongly about this. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Byrne
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support

How is each one invoked?
At 04:03 PM 7/1/2016, you wrote:
>Hi,
>A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app
>(Windows+I) where you do need to use object
>navigation to read descriptions of settings.
>Cheers,
>Joseph
>
>From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
>Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
>To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support
>
>
>Joseph Lee wrote:  "If you are using Windows 8,
>8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps."
>
>Joseph, is there any material somewhere that
>gives some discussion or examples of using
>object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example?
>
>I have not been able to get my arms around this,
>and it's probably because I'm trying to use it
>"in the wrong place."  I strongly suspect that
>had I known how to use these features the
>step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the
>Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might
>have been completed.  I had one of those rare
>"throw up my hands and walk away" moments
>because I could not figure out how to get NVDA
>to "play correctly" with the various pop-up
>overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can.
>
>Even if you could direct me to either an app or
>a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.
>
>--
>Brian
>
>I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how
>cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
>          ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for
> Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"
>
>
>
>
>






Kevin Huber
 

Hi Pete:

It depends on what application you are in. All review modes are not
available in all applications.
For example, if you are in the desktop, you will only have Screen
Review mode and Object Review mode, but not Document Review Mode,
since there is not document to review, while on the other hand, when I
am typing this message, I have Screen Review mode, Document Review
mode and Object review mode, since I am creating a document.

I hope that explains your dilemma.
Kevin Huber

On 7/23/16, Pete <emac00@cogeco.ca> wrote:

insert numpad 7 does not cycle threw options for me

the first press gets me screen review the second press gets me no
previous review mode

insert numpad 1 works simularly the first press gets me object
review and the next pres gets me no previous review mode

This is using nvda latest running on windows 7 64 bit pro.

Pete



On 7/1/2016 8:14 PM, Gene wrote:
It's easier, in my opinion, to demonstrate how object navigation works
than to try to explain it. After it is demonstrated, an explanation
might be helpful but I learned how to use object navigation by
experimentation with very little reliance on explanations.
Do the following:
This discussion uses the desktop keyboard layout. I don't use the
laptop layout and am notfamiliar with it.
Issue the command numpad insert numpad 7. That is, hold numpad insert
and while doing so press 7. Do this until you have moved through the
review options you can move to in that way. Then move back using
numpad insert numpad one. Stop at object navigation.
Now, open some simple program everyone has on their computer. Let's
use Notepad.
Write the word "test."
Now, issue the command numpad insert numpad 4. You will move from the
document window to another part of the program.
Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 6. You are back in the
document window again. You have moved first to a different object,
then back to the document window, the object you started on.
Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 8.
You have moved out of the document window and are now at an object
that says untitled notepad window. Move up again with the same
command. I'm not sure what you will hear depending on your version of
Windows. You may hear desktop window. Try moving to the left and
right by object with numpad 4 and 6. At least on my machine, I hear no
next, no previous.
So move down one level again with numpad insert numpad 2. On my
machine, I can't move to the left but I can move to the right from
where I am. If I move to the right enough times, I get to untitled
notepad window again.
Move down once to get back into the Notepad program. Start moving to
the right, I don't think you can move to the left. If you move enough
times, you will be back in the edit field with the word test you wrote
awhile ago.
The point is that you first moved to the window, then continuing to
move down you moved into the window and then moved right object by
object until you got back into the edit field.
Experiment and look around. You may find that by looking around and
experimenting, things start to make sense as you conceptualize what
you are doing as you move.
Try moving around using the move left and right commands and moving up
and down and then using the move left and right commands. Note that
you can move to a lot of structures. Some you can move into and some
you can't because you are already in them.
If you get lost, you can always return to the program window where you
started by alt tabbing out of and then alt tabbing until you return to
the window.
This demonstration may not explain things technically precisely
accurately in terms of definitions. I'm not sure I know exactly how
to explain everything technically accurately. The point is to
experiment and get a concept of what you are doing by experimentation
and observation.
This may or may not allow you to understand everything. But this kind
of experimentation, along with working with a good tutorial section
that explains object navigation may allow you to understand it.
Also, note carefully that if you leave NVDA set to screen review, you
can't review the screen accurately much of the time if you intend to
move somewhere and then use the standard review commands such as
numpad 8 read current line. You must have NVDA set for object
navigation to have review work reliably. I have said before that most
NVDA users don't and won't understand this and that you should
automatically be returned to object review when you leave the window
you are in. I still feel strongly about this.
Gene
*----- Original Message -----*
*From:* Ann Byrne <mailto:annakb@sbcglobal.net>
*Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2016 6:36 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support

How is each one invoked?
At 04:03 PM 7/1/2016, you wrote:
Hi,
A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app
(Windows+I) where you do need to use object
navigation to read descriptions of settings.
Cheers,
Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support


Joseph Lee wrote: "If you are using Windows 8,
8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer
style apps."

Joseph, is there any material somewhere that
gives some discussion or examples of using
object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example?

I have not been able to get my arms around this,
and it's probably because I'm trying to use it
"in the wrong place." I strongly suspect that
had I known how to use these features the
step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the
Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might
have been completed. I had one of those rare
"throw up my hands and walk away" moments
because I could not figure out how to get NVDA
to "play correctly" with the various pop-up
overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can.

Even if you could direct me to either an app or
a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it.

--
Brian

I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how
cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for
Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"