Date
1 - 19 of 19
Touch cursor support
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Hi all,
I'm really seeing the power of the Jaws touch cursor commands, and it makes me curious as to NVDA's capabilities. Does NVDA have such a thing, whether or not it have the same name as it does in Jaws? By touch cursor, I mean where it'll give users without a touch screen very similar functionality to those with a touch screen using the keyboard only. Thanks, Ben |
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Hi Ben,
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Yes, and it was here long before JAWS 15. In essence, touch cursor is JFW's implementation of object navigation and review cursor. Important note: If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps. Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ben J. Bloomgren Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:28 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Touch cursor support Hi all, I'm really seeing the power of the Jaws touch cursor commands, and it makes me curious as to NVDA's capabilities. Does NVDA have such a thing, whether or not it have the same name as it does in Jaws? By touch cursor, I mean where it'll give users without a touch screen very similar functionality to those with a touch screen using the keyboard only. Thanks, Ben |
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Greg Wocher
Hello,
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Object nav does not seem to be the same as the touch cursor in JAWS. In JAWS for instance you can move just by buttons or form fields. Is it possible to add this type of functionallity to the object nav in NVDA? Regards, Greg Wocher On 7/1/2016 2:18 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi Ben, |
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Joseph Lee wrote:  "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps." Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example? I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place."  I strongly suspect that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might have been completed.  I had one of those rare "throw up my hands and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA to "play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can. Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it. -- I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.      ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"    |
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Hi, A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app (Windows+I) where you do need to use object navigation to read descriptions of settings. Cheers, Joseph  From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel  Joseph Lee wrote:  "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps." Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example? I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place."  I strongly suspect that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might have been completed.  I had one of those rare "throw up my hands and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA to "play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can. Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it. -- I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.      ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"     |
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Joseph,       Thanks much.  I use Settings quite frequently and that would be an excellent sandbox! I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.      ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"    |
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Hi Joseph,
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Please pardon my ignorance, but is object navigation the same as the review cursor? Ben On Jul 1, 2016, at 11:18, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote: |
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Hi,
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Object navigation is tied to review cursor like this: * Object navigation allows you to navigate between controls. * Review cursor allows you to examine the contents of a specific control. Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ben J. Bloomgren Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:51 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support Hi Joseph, Please pardon my ignorance, but is object navigation the same as the review cursor? Ben On Jul 1, 2016, at 11:18, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:JFW's implementation of object navigation and review cursor. Important note: If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of objectnavigation is essential when using newer style apps. Cheers,makes me curious as to NVDA's capabilities. Does NVDA have such a thing, whether or not it have the same name as it does in Jaws? similar functionality to those with a touch screen using the keyboard only.
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Ann Byrne <annakb@...>
How is each one invoked?
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At 04:03 PM 7/1/2016, you wrote:
Hi, |
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Gene
It's easier, in my opinion, to demonstrate how
object navigation works than to try to explain it. After it is
demonstrated, an explanation might be helpful but I learned how to use object
navigation by experimentation with very little reliance on explanations.Â
Â
Do the following:
This discussion uses the desktop keyboard
layout. I don't use the laptop layout and am notfamiliar with it.Â
Issue the command numpad insert numpad 7.Â
That is, hold numpad insert and while doing so press 7. Do this until you
have moved through the review options you can move to in that way. Then
move back using numpad insert numpad one. Stop at object navigation.Â
Now, open some simple program everyone has on their
computer. Let's use Notepad.Â
Write the word "test."
Now, issue the command numpad insert numpad 4. You
will move from the document window to another part of the program.Â
Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 6. You
are back in the document window again. You have moved first to a different
object, then back to the document window, the object you started
on.
Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 8.Â
You have moved out of the document window and are now at an object that says untitled notepad window. Move up again with the same command. I'm not sure what you will hear depending on your version of Windows.  You may hear desktop window. Try moving to the left and right by object with numpad 4 and 6. At least on my machine, I hear no next, no previous.  So move down one level again with numpad insert numpad
2. On my machine, I can't move to the left but I can move to the right
from where I am. If I move to the right enough times, I get to untitled
notepad window again. Â
Move down once to get back into the Notepad program.Â
Start moving to the right, I don't think you can move to the left. If you
move enough times, you will be back in the edit field with the word test
you wrote awhile ago.
Â
The point is that you first moved to the window, then
continuing to move down you moved into the window and then moved right object by
object until you got back into the edit field. Â
Â
Experiment and look around. You may find that by
looking around and experimenting, things start to make sense as you
conceptualize what you are doing as you move. Â
Try moving around using the move left and right
commands and moving up and down and then using the move left and right
commands. Note that you can move to a lot of structures. Some you
can move into and some you can't because you are already in them.
Â
If you get lost, you can always return to the program
window where you started by alt tabbing out of and then alt tabbing until you
return to the window.Â
Â
This demonstration may not explain things technically
precisely accurately in terms of definitions. I'm not sure I know exactly
how to explain everything technically accurately. The point is to
experiment and get a concept of what you are doing by experimentation and
observation.  Â
Â
This may or may not allow you to understand
everything. But this kind of experimentation, along with working with a
good tutorial section that explains object navigation may allow you to
understand it.
Â
Also, note carefully that if you leave NVDA set to screen
review, you can't review the screen accurately much of the time if you intend to
move somewhere and then use the standard review commands such as numpad 8 read
current line. You must have NVDA set for object navigation to have review
work reliably. I have said before that most NVDA users don't and won't
understand this and that you should automatically be returned to object review
when you leave the window you are in. I still feel strongly about
this.Â
Â
Gene ----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Byrne
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support At 04:03 PM 7/1/2016, you wrote: >Hi, >A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app >(Windows+I) where you do need to use object >navigation to read descriptions of settings. >Cheers, >Joseph > >From: nvda@nvda.groups.io >[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel >Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM >To: nvda@nvda.groups.io >Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support > > >Joseph Lee wrote: "If you are using Windows 8, >8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps." > >Joseph, is there any material somewhere that >gives some discussion or examples of using >object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example? > >I have not been able to get my arms around this, >and it's probably because I'm trying to use it >"in the wrong place." I strongly suspect that >had I known how to use these features the >step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the >Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might >have been completed. I had one of those rare >"throw up my hands and walk away" moments >because I could not figure out how to get NVDA >to "play correctly" with the various pop-up >overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can. > >Even if you could direct me to either an app or >a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it. > >-- >Brian > >I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how >cynical you become it's never enough to keep up. >         ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for > Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe" > > > > > |
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Rui Fontes
Hello!
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Let me try to explain a litle more technically... All windows are formed by several objects of various types... By instance, NotePad is an object, composed by child objects: application menu bar, system menu bar, text area and status bar. When you are navigating by object, using NVDA+4, NVDA+5, NVDA+6, you are moving to the prior object, reading the actual object or moving to the next object. So, using Gene example, you start in the text area, and with NVDA+4 you will move to the application menu bar... NVDA+8 lets you move to the object containing the actual one. Returning to Gene example, you go to the Untitled NotePad window. In this level, if you use NVDA+4 or NVDA+6 you will move between the several windows you have open on your machine... If you press again NVDA+8, you will go up another level and you'll reach the Desktop, the object containing all window applications, start menu and so on. As Gene pointed, as Desktop is the object containing all others, it is not possible to move to the prior or next object in this level since it is the only one in this level... To return to the NotePad application you must go down one level, pressing NVDA+2, and then NVDA+6 to walk through the various application windows open. If the object navigation is understood, we can move to the other navigation methods, like screen review and document review... Rui -----Mensagem Original----- De: Gene Data: sábado, 2 de julho de 2016 01:14 Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io Assunto: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support It's easier, in my opinion, to demonstrate how object navigation works than to try to explain it. After it is demonstrated, an explanation might be helpful but I learned how to use object navigation by experimentation with very little reliance on explanations. Do the following: This discussion uses the desktop keyboard layout. I don't use the laptop layout and am notfamiliar with it. Issue the command numpad insert numpad 7. That is, hold numpad insert and while doing so press 7. Do this until you have moved through the review options you can move to in that way. Then move back using numpad insert numpad one. Stop at object navigation. Now, open some simple program everyone has on their computer. Let's use Notepad. Write the word "test." Now, issue the command numpad insert numpad 4. You will move from the document window to another part of the program. Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 6. You are back in the document window again. You have moved first to a different object, then back to the document window, the object you started on. Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 8. You have moved out of the document window and are now at an object that says untitled notepad window. Move up again with the same command. I'm not sure what you will hear depending on your version of Windows. You may hear desktop window. Try moving to the left and right by object with numpad 4 and 6. At least on my machine, I hear no next, no previous. So move down one level again with numpad insert numpad 2. On my machine, I can't move to the left but I can move to the right from where I am. If I move to the right enough times, I get to untitled notepad window again. Move down once to get back into the Notepad program. Start moving to the right, I don't think you can move to the left. If you move enough times, you will be back in the edit field with the word test you wrote awhile ago. The point is that you first moved to the window, then continuing to move down you moved into the window and then moved right object by object until you got back into the edit field. Experiment and look around. You may find that by looking around and experimenting, things start to make sense as you conceptualize what you are doing as you move. Try moving around using the move left and right commands and moving up and down and then using the move left and right commands. Note that you can move to a lot of structures. Some you can move into and some you can't because you are already in them. If you get lost, you can always return to the program window where you started by alt tabbing out of and then alt tabbing until you return to the window. This demonstration may not explain things technically precisely accurately in terms of definitions. I'm not sure I know exactly how to explain everything technically accurately. The point is to experiment and get a concept of what you are doing by experimentation and observation. This may or may not allow you to understand everything. But this kind of experimentation, along with working with a good tutorial section that explains object navigation may allow you to understand it. Also, note carefully that if you leave NVDA set to screen review, you can't review the screen accurately much of the time if you intend to move somewhere and then use the standard review commands such as numpad 8 read current line. You must have NVDA set for object navigation to have review work reliably. I have said before that most NVDA users don't and won't understand this and that you should automatically be returned to object review when you leave the window you are in. I still feel strongly about this. Gene ----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Byrne Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:36 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support How is each one invoked? At 04:03 PM 7/1/2016, you wrote: Hi, |
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Brian's Mail list account
Does anyone know how to interact with the auto opening app in windows 7for available networks which in the system tray. Unless you cursor over it fast, it just blots the screen out with an apparently empty shell of a window, though sighted people tell me this is not so. Why it should auto open when you clearly do not click anything is most odd, but I have two 7 machines here with the same problem.
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Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support Hi, A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app (Windows+I) where you do need to use object navigation to read descriptions of settings. Cheers, Joseph From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support Joseph Lee wrote: "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object navigation is essential when using newer style apps." Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some "real world" example? I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place." I strongly suspect that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create might have been completed. I had one of those rare "throw up my hands and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA to "play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm almost certain it can. Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it. -- Brian I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up. ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe" |
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Brian's Mail list account
So do I, I get caught out mostly when I try to do a say all but leave the actual cursor alone which comes out normally as numpad plus, but if you are in the wrong navigation mode you get random results.
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Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:14 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support It's easier, in my opinion, to demonstrate how object navigation works than to try to explain it. After it is demonstrated, an explanation might be helpful but I learned how to use object navigation by experimentation with very little reliance on explanations. Do the following: This discussion uses the desktop keyboard layout. I don't use the laptop layout and am notfamiliar with it. Issue the command numpad insert numpad 7. That is, hold numpad insert and while doing so press 7. Do this until you have moved through the review options you can move to in that way. Then move back using numpad insert numpad one. Stop at object navigation. Now, open some simple program everyone has on their computer. Let's use Notepad. Write the word "test." Now, issue the command numpad insert numpad 4. You will move from the document window to another part of the program. Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 6. You are back in the document window again. You have moved first to a different object, then back to the document window, the object you started on. Now issue the command numpad insert numpad 8. You have moved out of the document window and are now at an object that says untitled notepad window. Move up again with the same command. I'm not sure what you will hear depending on your version of Windows. You may hear desktop window. Try moving to the left and right by object with numpad 4 and 6. At least on my machine, I hear no next, no previous. So move down one level again with numpad insert numpad 2. On my machine, I can't move to the left but I can move to the right from where I am. If I move to the right enough times, I get to untitled notepad window again. Move down once to get back into the Notepad program. Start moving to the right, I don't think you can move to the left. If you move enough times, you will be back in the edit field with the word test you wrote awhile ago. The point is that you first moved to the window, then continuing to move down you moved into the window and then moved right object by object until you got back into the edit field. Experiment and look around. You may find that by looking around and experimenting, things start to make sense as you conceptualize what you are doing as you move. Try moving around using the move left and right commands and moving up and down and then using the move left and right commands. Note that you can move to a lot of structures. Some you can move into and some you can't because you are already in them. If you get lost, you can always return to the program window where you started by alt tabbing out of and then alt tabbing until you return to the window. This demonstration may not explain things technically precisely accurately in terms of definitions. I'm not sure I know exactly how to explain everything technically accurately. The point is to experiment and get a concept of what you are doing by experimentation and observation. This may or may not allow you to understand everything. But this kind of experimentation, along with working with a good tutorial section that explains object navigation may allow you to understand it. Also, note carefully that if you leave NVDA set to screen review, you can't review the screen accurately much of the time if you intend to move somewhere and then use the standard review commands such as numpad 8 read current line. You must have NVDA set for object navigation to have review work reliably. I have said before that most NVDA users don't and won't understand this and that you should automatically be returned to object review when you leave the window you are in. I still feel strongly about this. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Ann Byrne Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 6:36 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support How is each one invoked? At 04:03 PM 7/1/2016, you wrote: Hi, |
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Ejaz Shah
This does not happen in Windows 10. So, at least that one is fixed in Windows 10.
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On 7/2/2016 2:17 PM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Does anyone know how to interact with the auto opening app in windows 7for available networks which in the system tray. Unless you cursor over it fast, it just blots the screen out with an apparently empty shell of a window, though sighted people tell me this is not so. Why it should auto open when you clearly do not click anything is most odd, but I have two 7 machines here with the same problem. |
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Gene
The system tray add on completely eliminates the
problem. It's far past time that this add on or equivalent comes as
installed code with NVDA.Â
Â
Gene ----- Original Message -----
Windows 10. On 7/2/2016 2:17 PM, Brian's Mail list account wrote: > Does anyone know how to interact with the auto opening app in windows > 7for available networks which in the system tray. Unless you cursor > over it fast, it just blots the screen out with an apparently empty > shell of a window, though sighted people tell me this is not so. Why > it should auto open when you clearly do not click anything is most > odd, but I have two 7 machines here with the same problem. > Brian > > bglists@... > Sent via blueyonder. > Please address personal email to:- > briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' > in the display name field. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" > <joseph.lee22590@...> > To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:03 PM > Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support > > > Hi, > > A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app (Windows+I) where you do > need to use object navigation to read descriptions of settings. > > Cheers, > > Joseph > > > > From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of > Brian Vogel > Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support > > > > Joseph Lee wrote: "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of > object navigation is essential when using newer style apps." > > Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or > examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some > "real world" example? > > I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably > because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place." I strongly suspect > that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza > ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create > might have been completed. I had one of those rare "throw up my hands > and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA > to "play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm > almost certain it can. > > Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a > good sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it. > |
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no its just a status window.
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you can't interact with it. you just open and close the start menu quickly then its normal. On 2/07/2016 9:17 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Does anyone know how to interact with the auto opening app in windows |
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Gene
It autoopens because it interprets you moving to it
in the same way as though you were hovering a mouse over it, at least that's my
interpretation. Why this icon reacts in this way is something I don't
know.Â
Â
But the fact that the problem doesn't exist with
the system tray dialog add on is more than sufficient reason for me to use the
add on.
Â
Gene ----- Original Message -----
you can't interact with it. you just open and close the start menu quickly then its normal. On 2/07/2016 9:17 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote: > Does anyone know how to interact with the auto opening app in windows > 7for available networks which in the system tray. Unless you cursor over > it fast, it just blots the screen out with an apparently empty shell of > a window, though sighted people tell me this is not so. Why it should > auto open when you clearly do not click anything is most odd, but I have > two 7 machines here with the same problem. > Brian > > bglists@... > Sent via blueyonder. > Please address personal email to:- > briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' > in the display name field. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...> > To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 10:03 PM > Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support > > > Hi, > > A good example is Windows 10’s Settings app (Windows+I) where you do > need to use object navigation to read descriptions of settings. > > Cheers, > > Joseph > > > > From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of > Brian Vogel > Sent: Friday, July 1, 2016 2:00 PM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch cursor support > > > > Joseph Lee wrote: "If you are using Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, use of object > navigation is essential when using newer style apps." > > Joseph, is there any material somewhere that gives some discussion or > examples of using object navigation and the review cursor using some > "real world" example? > > I have not been able to get my arms around this, and it's probably > because I'm trying to use it "in the wrong place." I strongly suspect > that had I known how to use these features the step-by-step pizza > ordering instructions for the Pizza Hut website I was trying to create > might have been completed. I had one of those rare "throw up my hands > and walk away" moments because I could not figure out how to get NVDA to > "play correctly" with the various pop-up overlays, etc., and I'm almost > certain it can. > > Even if you could direct me to either an app or a website that's a good > sandbox for this undertaking I'd appreciate it. > |
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Pete <emac00@...>
  insert numpad 7 does not cycle threw options for me  the first press gets me screen review the second press
gets me no previous review mode  insert numpad 1 works simularly the first press gets me
object review and the next pres gets me no previous review modeÂ
 This is using nvda latest running on windows 7 64 bit pro.Â
 PeteÂ
On 7/1/2016 8:14 PM, Gene wrote:
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Kevin Huber
Hi Pete:
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It depends on what application you are in. All review modes are not available in all applications. For example, if you are in the desktop, you will only have Screen Review mode and Object Review mode, but not Document Review Mode, since there is not document to review, while on the other hand, when I am typing this message, I have Screen Review mode, Document Review mode and Object review mode, since I am creating a document. I hope that explains your dilemma. Kevin Huber On 7/23/16, Pete <emac00@...> wrote:
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