Some observations on usability aspects with Firefox and NVDA


Felix G.
 

Hello,
I'd like to ask if anyone else is observing the following with recent versions of Firefox. When loading a page, whose title we shall define as T, NVDA announces chatter of the following structure:
T Mozilla Firefox. Unknown. Unknown. T Mozilla Firefox. T document
Now if you substitute anything substantial for T you can see how this would amount to a lot of sylables with no useful information content.
Also, Alt+Tabbing to Firefox produces:
T Mozilla Firefox, T document
Finally, are there plans to implement a way of finding out if a page has been fully loaded? I quite often find myself in the middle of reading a paragraph when suddenly some asynchronous update happens and the review cursor is thrown back a few lines or to the previous heading, to name but two instances.
Any suggestions on any of those?
Kind regards,
Felix Grützmacher


Mr. Wong Chi Wai <cwwong.pro@...>
 

I remember there is an item in  about:config to set when will the webpage be shown, fully loaded and shown or immediately shown while loading the remaining.
 

Felix G. 於 27/7/2016 13:41 寫道:

Hello,
I'd like to ask if anyone else is observing the following with recent versions of Firefox. When loading a page, whose title we shall define as T, NVDA announces chatter of the following structure:
T Mozilla Firefox. Unknown. Unknown. T Mozilla Firefox. T document
Now if you substitute anything substantial for T you can see how this would amount to a lot of sylables with no useful information content.
Also, Alt+Tabbing to Firefox produces:
T Mozilla Firefox, T document
Finally, are there plans to implement a way of finding out if a page has been fully loaded? I quite often find myself in the middle of reading a paragraph when suddenly some asynchronous update happens and the review cursor is thrown back a few lines or to the previous heading, to name but two instances.
Any suggestions on any of those?
Kind regards,
Felix Grützmacher


Gene
 

As far as I know, screen-readers that use the MSAA buffer, such as NVDA, don't display the page or let you move around in it before the page has fully loaded.
 
I''m not sure what is causing the behavior you are describing.  If a page fully refreshes, the expected behavior is that you will be returned to the top and reading will begin from the top.  If some certain part of the page is being refreshed, my speculation is that that may account for what you are experiencing if you are reading that part of the page. 
 
I'm not sure if you can control such behavior.  But you can try changing a setting in options.
Do you know how to find the checkbox that says something like warn me when sites attempt to redirect or reload the page? 
If not, I'll tell you.  But I have no idea if that setting would have any effect on this problem because if anything, only a part of a page is being refreshed, such as a region containing updating information such as a stock ticker or certain text on a page that may need to be kept current.  I doubt this setting has any effect on such behavior, though I don't know.
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some observations on usability aspects with Firefox and NVDA

I remember there is an item in  about:config to set when will the webpage be shown, fully loaded and shown or immediately shown while loading the remaining.
 

Felix G. 於 27/7/2016 13:41 寫道:
Hello,
I'd like to ask if anyone else is observing the following with recent versions of Firefox. When loading a page, whose title we shall define as T, NVDA announces chatter of the following structure:
T Mozilla Firefox. Unknown. Unknown. T Mozilla Firefox. T document
Now if you substitute anything substantial for T you can see how this would amount to a lot of sylables with no useful information content.
Also, Alt+Tabbing to Firefox produces:
T Mozilla Firefox, T document
Finally, are there plans to implement a way of finding out if a page has been fully loaded? I quite often find myself in the middle of reading a paragraph when suddenly some asynchronous update happens and the review cursor is thrown back a few lines or to the previous heading, to name but two instances.
Any suggestions on any of those?
Kind regards,
Felix Grützmacher


Felix G.
 

Hello,
to my knowledge there is no MSAA buffer as such. Rather, NVDA uses IA2 to communicate with Firefox and thereby obtains the data with which it populates its own document review buffer. For some screen readers this is not even a buffer. For NVDA it is.
I agree that upon refresh the expected behaviour would be for the document review cursor to be placed at the top but this applies only to a top-level refresh of the entire document. I was just hoping for some indication of when the loading and rendering process has quieted down enough for a smooth reading experience. I might even be asking for something that's impossible because Firefox would need a pretty good crystal ball to predict what the scripts on a given page will do next, let alone in a few seconds. If so I can live with that annoyance.
Kind regards,
Felix Grützmacher

Gene <gsasner@...> schrieb am Mi., 27. Juli 2016 um 09:12 Uhr:

As far as I know, screen-readers that use the MSAA buffer, such as NVDA, don't display the page or let you move around in it before the page has fully loaded.
 
I''m not sure what is causing the behavior you are describing.  If a page fully refreshes, the expected behavior is that you will be returned to the top and reading will begin from the top.  If some certain part of the page is being refreshed, my speculation is that that may account for what you are experiencing if you are reading that part of the page. 
 
I'm not sure if you can control such behavior.  But you can try changing a setting in options.
Do you know how to find the checkbox that says something like warn me when sites attempt to redirect or reload the page? 
If not, I'll tell you.  But I have no idea if that setting would have any effect on this problem because if anything, only a part of a page is being refreshed, such as a region containing updating information such as a stock ticker or certain text on a page that may need to be kept current.  I doubt this setting has any effect on such behavior, though I don't know.
 
Gene 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some observations on usability aspects with Firefox and NVDA

I remember there is an item in  about:config to set when will the webpage be shown, fully loaded and shown or immediately shown while loading the remaining.
 

Felix G. 於 27/7/2016 13:41 寫道:
Hello,
I'd like to ask if anyone else is observing the following with recent versions of Firefox. When loading a page, whose title we shall define as T, NVDA announces chatter of the following structure:
T Mozilla Firefox. Unknown. Unknown. T Mozilla Firefox. T document
Now if you substitute anything substantial for T you can see how this would amount to a lot of sylables with no useful information content.
Also, Alt+Tabbing to Firefox produces:
T Mozilla Firefox, T document
Finally, are there plans to implement a way of finding out if a page has been fully loaded? I quite often find myself in the middle of reading a paragraph when suddenly some asynchronous update happens and the review cursor is thrown back a few lines or to the previous heading, to name but two instances.
Any suggestions on any of those?
Kind regards,
Felix Grützmacher


Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

Navigational sounds but you need to use firefox 46 or before. all the versions after this seem to screw that up and tend also to me at least to be a slug compared to 46.
I hope somebody tells Mozilla about these things. Navigational sounds always makes a bong sound when the page has fully loaded, though of course some web site do continue throwing crap at you for adverts, and I always use ublock on firefox now to stop all this rubbish from moving focus.

Amazon seem to be particularly annoying in this respect recently. Now I hear clicks but nothing changes which sis just what I need.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 6:41 AM
Subject: [nvda] Some observations on usability aspects with Firefox and NVDA


Hello,
I'd like to ask if anyone else is observing the following with recent
versions of Firefox. When loading a page, whose title we shall define as T,
NVDA announces chatter of the following structure:
T Mozilla Firefox. Unknown. Unknown. T Mozilla Firefox. T document
Now if you substitute anything substantial for T you can see how this would
amount to a lot of sylables with no useful information content.
Also, Alt+Tabbing to Firefox produces:
T Mozilla Firefox, T document
Finally, are there plans to implement a way of finding out if a page has
been fully loaded? I quite often find myself in the middle of reading a
paragraph when suddenly some asynchronous update happens and the review
cursor is thrown back a few lines or to the previous heading, to name but
two instances.
Any suggestions on any of those?
Kind regards,
Felix Grützmacher


Felix G.
 

Did so. Now let's see what happens.
Greetings,
Felix Grützmacher

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...> schrieb am Mi., 27. Juli 2016 um 11:57 Uhr:

Navigational sounds but you need to use firefox 46 or before. all the
versions after this seem to screw that up and tend also to me at least to be
a slug compared to 46.
I hope somebody tells Mozilla about these things. Navigational sounds always
makes a bong sound when the page has fully loaded, though of course some web
site do continue throwing crap at you for adverts, and I always use  ublock
on firefox now to stop all this rubbish from moving focus.

Amazon seem to be particularly annoying in this respect recently. Now I hear
clicks but nothing changes which sis just what I need.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 6:41 AM
Subject: [nvda] Some observations on usability aspects with Firefox and NVDA


Hello,
I'd like to ask if anyone else is observing the following with recent
versions of Firefox. When loading a page, whose title we shall define as T,
NVDA announces chatter of the following structure:
T Mozilla Firefox. Unknown. Unknown. T Mozilla Firefox. T document
Now if you substitute anything substantial for T you can see how this would
amount to a lot of sylables with no useful information content.
Also, Alt+Tabbing to Firefox produces:
T Mozilla Firefox, T document
Finally, are there plans to implement a way of finding out if a page has
been fully loaded? I quite often find myself in the middle of reading a
paragraph when suddenly some asynchronous update happens and the review
cursor is thrown back a few lines or to the previous heading, to name but
two instances.
Any suggestions on any of those?
Kind regards,
Felix Grützmacher





 

Well navigational sounds at least should be fixed.
It should autoupdate itself.
Because mozilla removed fuel things don't work.
Right, in some instances like with some forum links the addon just won't fire but it works most of the time and where it doesn't it does not matter to me.

On 27/07/2016 9:57 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Navigational sounds but you need to use firefox 46 or before. all the
versions after this seem to screw that up and tend also to me at least
to be a slug compared to 46.
I hope somebody tells Mozilla about these things. Navigational sounds
always makes a bong sound when the page has fully loaded, though of
course some web site do continue throwing crap at you for adverts, and I
always use ublock on firefox now to stop all this rubbish from moving
focus.

Amazon seem to be particularly annoying in this respect recently. Now I
hear clicks but nothing changes which sis just what I need.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Felix G."
<constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 6:41 AM
Subject: [nvda] Some observations on usability aspects with Firefox and
NVDA


Hello,
I'd like to ask if anyone else is observing the following with recent
versions of Firefox. When loading a page, whose title we shall define as T,
NVDA announces chatter of the following structure:
T Mozilla Firefox. Unknown. Unknown. T Mozilla Firefox. T document
Now if you substitute anything substantial for T you can see how this would
amount to a lot of sylables with no useful information content.
Also, Alt+Tabbing to Firefox produces:
T Mozilla Firefox, T document
Finally, are there plans to implement a way of finding out if a page has
been fully loaded? I quite often find myself in the middle of reading a
paragraph when suddenly some asynchronous update happens and the review
cursor is thrown back a few lines or to the previous heading, to name but
two instances.
Any suggestions on any of those?
Kind regards,
Felix Grützmacher



.


Gene
 

But I don't see why navigational sounds would have any bearing on the problem being discussed.  A page can fully load and then refresh in part or in whole.  If the problem is caused by refreshes, it doesn't matter if you hear such sounds.  It is also, from a security standpoint, a bad idea to run old versions of browsers that don't have the newer security patches. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some observations on usability aspects with Firefox and NVDA

Well navigational sounds at  least should  be  fixed.
It  should autoupdate  itself.
Because mozilla removed fuel  things  don't work.
Right,  in some  instances like with some forum links  the addon   just
won't fire but   it   works  most  of the  time and where  it doesn't
it does  not  matter to  me.



On 27/07/2016 9:57 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
> Navigational sounds but you need to use firefox 46 or before. all the
> versions after this seem to screw that up and tend also to me at least
> to be a slug compared to 46.
> I hope somebody tells Mozilla about these things. Navigational sounds
> always makes a bong sound when the page has fully loaded, though of
> course some web site do continue throwing crap at you for adverts, and I
> always use  ublock on firefox now to stop all this rubbish from moving
> focus.
>
> Amazon seem to be particularly annoying in this respect recently. Now I
> hear clicks but nothing changes which sis just what I need.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Felix G."
> <constantlyvariable@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 6:41 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Some observations on usability aspects with Firefox and
> NVDA
>
>
> Hello,
> I'd like to ask if anyone else is observing the following with recent
> versions of Firefox. When loading a page, whose title we shall define as T,
> NVDA announces chatter of the following structure:
> T Mozilla Firefox. Unknown. Unknown. T Mozilla Firefox. T document
> Now if you substitute anything substantial for T you can see how this would
> amount to a lot of sylables with no useful information content.
> Also, Alt+Tabbing to Firefox produces:
> T Mozilla Firefox, T document
> Finally, are there plans to implement a way of finding out if a page has
> been fully loaded? I quite often find myself in the middle of reading a
> paragraph when suddenly some asynchronous update happens and the review
> cursor is thrown back a few lines or to the previous heading, to name but
> two instances.
> Any suggestions on any of those?
> Kind regards,
> Felix Grützmacher
>
>
>
>
> .
>