|
Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
Good day, Well with Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to invest more time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC. Started things off with the Microsoft Edge browser. Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn well with NVDA. NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages automatically. It also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to quickly jump through web content. Love... love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of Edge. This alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert. I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to do then with Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional Treeview structure in their manager. Very nice! The only problem I'm having is when I find myself sometimes being placed in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump back to the web page content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this at times. Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display that entire pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and [Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key to hide/dismiss it again. Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being released and us really caring about the changes Microsoft is implementing all the time to make their line of Windows applications more accessible got me thinking. Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't mean they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from Insider testers and bug reports.) Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has developed and stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools (Even the bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of. By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard shortcuts: Visit https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-shortcuts-list.htmlIt really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start using it more. -Kenny
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|
|
Sarah k Alawami
Yes. That is before the add on. I noticed that when I was on a job website yesterday. It’s very flid and works a lot better.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Jul 13, 2018, at 9:52 AM, Kenny <kwashingtonbox@gmail.com> wrote:
Good day,
Well with Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to invest more time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC.
Started things off with the Microsoft Edge browser.
Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn well with NVDA.
NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages automatically. It also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to quickly jump through web content.
Love... love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of Edge. This alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert.
I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to do then with Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional Treeview structure in their manager. Very nice!
The only problem I'm having is when I find myself sometimes being placed in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump back to the web page content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this at times.
Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display that entire pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and [Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key to hide/dismiss it again.
Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being released and us really caring about the changes Microsoft is implementing all the time to make their line of Windows applications more accessible got me thinking.
Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't mean they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from Insider testers and bug reports.)
Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has developed and stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools (Even the bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of.
By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard shortcuts:
Visit https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-shortcuts-list.html
It really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start using it more.
-Kenny
|
|
|
Hi,
In short, the try build I posted yesterday is really Windows 10 App Essentials add-on incorporated inside NVDA itself. For months some folks have been asking me about inclusion of features from this add-on into NVDA screen reader directly, and yesterday's try build is a taste of that. Except for roledescription in Edge, features included are part of my add-on (that reminds me: I forgot to include a crucial feature in the try build (announcing the virtual desktop you're switching to), which I'll address in Version 1808).
Cheers,
Joseph
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:56 AM To: Nvda List <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me. Yes. That is before the add on. I noticed that when I was on a job website yesterday. It’s very flid and works a lot better. On Jul 13, 2018, at 9:52 AM, Kenny <kwashingtonbox@gmail.com> wrote:
Good day,
Well with Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to invest more time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC.
Started things off with the Microsoft Edge browser.
Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn well with NVDA.
NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages automatically. It also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to quickly jump through web content.
Love... love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of Edge. This alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert.
I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to do then with Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional Treeview structure in their manager. Very nice!
The only problem I'm having is when I find myself sometimes being placed in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump back to the web page content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this at times.
Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display that entire pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and [Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key to hide/dismiss it again.
Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being released and us really caring about the changes Microsoft is implementing all the time to make their line of Windows applications more accessible got me thinking.
Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've
experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't
mean they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from
Insider testers and bug reports.)
Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has developed and stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools (Even the bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of.
By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard shortcuts:
Visit
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-short
cuts-list.html
It really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start using it more.
-Kenny
|
|
|
Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
This Try-Build works great Joseph. I've only installed the Mozilla Apps Enhancements and Speech History extensions. NVDA works seamlessly with various Microsoft applications, especially Edge.
Always believed it's better to incorporate Windows app improvements into the main NVDA program, without having to install an extension.
Think I may stick with this NVDA build as my primary screen reader for now on out.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 7/13/2018 1:18 PM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
In short, the try build I posted yesterday is really Windows 10 App Essentials add-on incorporated inside NVDA itself. For months some folks have been asking me about inclusion of features from this add-on into NVDA screen reader directly, and yesterday's try build is a taste of that. Except for roledescription in Edge, features included are part of my add-on (that reminds me: I forgot to include a crucial feature in the try build (announcing the virtual desktop you're switching to), which I'll address in Version 1808).
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:56 AM
To: Nvda List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me.
Yes. That is before the add on. I noticed that when I was on a job website yesterday. It’s very flid and works a lot better.
On Jul 13, 2018, at 9:52 AM, Kenny <kwashingtonbox@gmail.com> wrote:
Good day,
Well with Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to invest more time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC.
Started things off with the Microsoft Edge browser.
Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn well with NVDA.
NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages automatically. It also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to quickly jump through web content.
Love... love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of Edge. This alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert.
I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to do then with Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional Treeview structure in their manager. Very nice!
The only problem I'm having is when I find myself sometimes being placed in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump back to the web page content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this at times.
Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display that entire pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and [Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key to hide/dismiss it again.
Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being released and us really caring about the changes Microsoft is implementing all the time to make their line of Windows applications more accessible got me thinking.
Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've
experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't
mean they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from
Insider testers and bug reports.)
Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has developed and stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools (Even the bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of.
By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard shortcuts:
Visit
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-short
cuts-list.html
It really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start using it more.
-Kenny
|
|
|
In Internet Explorer, f6 moves you through
different parts of the window. If you want to move from anywhere in the
main window to the page display part of the window, control f6 moves you there
if you issue the command once. That may be the case in Edge as
well.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 11:52 AM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on
Me.
Good day, Well with Joseph's announcement about the
NVDA Try Build, I decided to invest more time in using Microsoft's
applications on my Windows 10 PC. Started things off with the
Microsoft Edge browser. Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot
of changes have recently been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn
well with NVDA. NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages
automatically. It also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading
complete.) Most of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to
quickly jump through web content. Love... love... love... the
Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of Edge. This alone is starting to
make me a Chrome to Edge convert. I hate to say it, but managing
Favorites in Edge is much much easier to do then with Chrome in my humble
opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional Treeview structure in their manager.
Very nice! The only problem I'm having is when I find myself
sometimes being placed in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump
back to the web page content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this
at times. Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display
that entire pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for
History, and [Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key
to hide/dismiss it again. Reading Joseph's recent email regarding
the Try-Build of NVDA being released and us really caring about the changes
Microsoft is implementing all the time to make their line of Windows
applications more accessible got me thinking. Why can't I give
their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've experienced a lot of problems
with their applications. That doesn't mean they've not made efforts to
correct things (Due to feedback from Insider testers and bug
reports.) Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has
developed and stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools
(Even the bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping
Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of. By the way, if
you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard
shortcuts: Visit https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-shortcuts-list.htmlIt
really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start using it
more. -Kenny
|
|
|
Hi,
I advise against making my try build the primary version of NVDA on your computer for three important reasons:
1. New NVDA developments may break the try build, and in many cases, my try build will be out of date with "reality" too quickly (once the new release process is fully implemented and things start to pour into alpha builds).
2. Windows 10 uses continuous delivery model. In other words, things can change at a blink of an eye. The try build I wrote yesterday assumes you've got Windows 10 Version 1709 (build 16299) or later, and for emoji panel in particular, it assumes Windows 10 Redstone 5. In recent weeks Microsoft made significant changes to emoji panel in Redstone 5 builds, which means certain things won't work as advertised in older and newer builds.
3. My try build is not an official NV Access try build. This means no updates, no official support from NV Access, things won't work as expected when installed, no touchscreen support (very important for certain Windows 10 features) and so on.
For all practical purposes, you should install Windows 10 App Essentials add-on until such time when I say all major features from that add-on become part of NVDA screen reader (right now, it isn't). That's because:
1. Windows 10 App Essentials uses continuous delivery model. Unlike most of my add-ons I created or maintain (except another one), there is no major or minor releases of this add-on (at least on paper). Latest stable versions do include new features from Insider Preview builds, bug fixes, needed features for NVDA users and what not.
2. This add-on serves as a public testing version of pull requests that'll be sent to Nv Access after a period of usage. In recent months, NV Access has incorporated features from this add-on into NVDA. In one particular case, Mick Curran took inspiration from my add-on for a feature, and throughout 2017, I wrote or helped writing features seen today, including search suggestion sounds (originally came from my add-on).
There are certain things the add-on cannot do due to hacks involved, but for many things, the add-on should suffice.
Cheers,
Joseph
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 11:08 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me. This Try-Build works great Joseph. I've only installed the Mozilla Apps Enhancements and Speech History extensions. NVDA works seamlessly with various Microsoft applications, especially Edge. Always believed it's better to incorporate Windows app improvements into the main NVDA program, without having to install an extension. Think I may stick with this NVDA build as my primary screen reader for now on out. On 7/13/2018 1:18 PM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
In short, the try build I posted yesterday is really Windows 10 App Essentials add-on incorporated inside NVDA itself. For months some folks have been asking me about inclusion of features from this add-on into NVDA screen reader directly, and yesterday's try build is a taste of that. Except for roledescription in Edge, features included are part of my add-on (that reminds me: I forgot to include a crucial feature in the try build (announcing the virtual desktop you're switching to), which I'll address in Version 1808).
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:56 AM
To: Nvda List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me.
Yes. That is before the add on. I noticed that when I was on a job website yesterday. It’s very flid and works a lot better.
On Jul 13, 2018, at 9:52 AM, Kenny <kwashingtonbox@gmail.com> wrote:
Good day,
Well with Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to invest more time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC.
Started things off with the Microsoft Edge browser.
Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn well with NVDA.
NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages automatically. It also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to quickly jump through web content.
Love... love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of Edge. This alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert.
I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to do then with Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional Treeview structure in their manager. Very nice!
The only problem I'm having is when I find myself sometimes being placed in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump back to the web page content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this at times.
Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display that entire pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and [Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key to hide/dismiss it again.
Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being released and us really caring about the changes Microsoft is implementing all the time to make their line of Windows applications more accessible got me thinking.
Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've
experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't
mean they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from
Insider testers and bug reports.)
Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has developed and stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools (Even the bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of.
By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard shortcuts:
Visit
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-short
cuts-list.html
It really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start using it more.
-Kenny
|
|
|
Hi, No, that’s not the case in Microsoft Edge, as Control+F6 does nothing. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 11:18 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me. In Internet Explorer, f6 moves you through different parts of the window. If you want to move from anywhere in the main window to the page display part of the window, control f6 moves you there if you issue the command once. That may be the case in Edge as well. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 11:52 AM Subject: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me. Good day,
Well with Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to
invest more time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC.
Started things off with the Microsoft Edge browser.
Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently
been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn well with NVDA.
NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages automatically. It
also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most
of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to quickly jump
through web content.
Love... love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of
Edge. This alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert.
I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to
do then with Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional
Treeview structure in their manager. Very nice!
The only problem I'm having is when I find myself sometimes being placed
in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump back to the web page
content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this at times.
Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display that entire
pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and
[Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key to
hide/dismiss it again.
Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being
released and us really caring about the changes Microsoft is
implementing all the time to make their line of Windows applications
more accessible got me thinking.
Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've
experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't mean
they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from Insider
testers and bug reports.)
Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has developed and
stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools (Even the
bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping
Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of.
By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard
shortcuts:
Visit
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-shortcuts-list.html
It really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start
using it more.
-Kenny
|
|
|
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original message -----
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on
Me.
Hi,
No, that’s not the case in Microsoft Edge, as Control+F6 does
nothing.
Cheers,
Joseph
In Internet Explorer,
f6 moves you through different parts of the window. If you want to move
from anywhere in the main window to the page display part of the window, control
f6 moves you there if you issue the command once. That may be the case in
Edge as well.
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018
11:52 AM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft Edge
is Starting to Grow on Me.
Good day,
Well with
Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to
invest more
time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC.
Started
things off with the Microsoft Edge browser.
Not sure if it's the new
Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently
been made to Edge overall, but
it works pretty damn well with NVDA.
NVDA reads All of the push
notification bar messages automatically. It
also informs me when the page
has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most
of the NVDA quick navigation key
shortcuts do work to quickly jump
through web content.
Love...
love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of
Edge. This
alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert.
I hate to say
it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to
do then with
Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional
Treeview structure
in their manager. Very nice!
The only problem I'm having is when I
find myself sometimes being placed
in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I
quickly jump back to the web page
content by pressing [F6]. I just get
annoyed with this at times.
Curious why they don't implement a
shortcut key to display that entire
pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for
Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and
[Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could
simply hit the [Escape] key to
hide/dismiss it again.
Reading
Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being
released and us
really caring about the changes Microsoft is
implementing all the time to
make their line of Windows applications
more accessible got me
thinking.
Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past
I've
experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't
mean
they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from
Insider
testers and bug reports.)
Time for me to start using the
free tools Microsoft has developed and
stop searching for replacements. And
I mean all of the tools (Even the
bug report and feedback submission tools.)
This is key to helping
Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware
of.
By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge
keyboard
shortcuts:
Visit
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-shortcuts-list.html
It
really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start
using it
more.
-Kenny
|
|
|
Hi,
Is there an addon for edge? Thanks
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 12:56 PM To: Nvda List <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me. Yes. That is before the add on. I noticed that when I was on a job website yesterday. It’s very flid and works a lot better. On Jul 13, 2018, at 9:52 AM, Kenny <kwashingtonbox@gmail.com> wrote:
Good day,
Well with Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to invest more time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC.
Started things off with the Microsoft Edge browser.
Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn well with NVDA.
NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages automatically. It also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to quickly jump through web content.
Love... love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of Edge. This alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert.
I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to do then with Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional Treeview structure in their manager. Very nice!
The only problem I'm having is when I find myself sometimes being placed in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump back to the web page content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this at times.
Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display that entire pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and [Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key to hide/dismiss it again.
Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being released and us really caring about the changes Microsoft is implementing all the time to make their line of Windows applications more accessible got me thinking.
Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've
experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't
mean they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from
Insider testers and bug reports.)
Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has developed and stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools (Even the bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of.
By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard shortcuts:
Visit
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-short
cuts-list.html
It really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start using it more.
-Kenny
|
|
|
Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
Joseph, I'm going to be honest with you.
I've tried the current releases of NVDA 2018.2, Developer's Master and this new Try Build release. The Try-Build release seems to work best on my system running the latest build of Microsoft Windows 10 Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.165.)
Edge is much more responsive when using this TB release. Maybe it's some sort of fluke, but I really do like how this build works with Windows applications overall.
Could the key be is to run the other two builds in portable mode for the Try-Build I'm running that way?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 7/13/2018 2:25 PM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
I advise against making my try build the primary version of NVDA on your computer for three important reasons:
1. New NVDA developments may break the try build, and in many cases, my try build will be out of date with "reality" too quickly (once the new release process is fully implemented and things start to pour into alpha builds).
2. Windows 10 uses continuous delivery model. In other words, things can change at a blink of an eye. The try build I wrote yesterday assumes you've got Windows 10 Version 1709 (build 16299) or later, and for emoji panel in particular, it assumes Windows 10 Redstone 5. In recent weeks Microsoft made significant changes to emoji panel in Redstone 5 builds, which means certain things won't work as advertised in older and newer builds.
3. My try build is not an official NV Access try build. This means no updates, no official support from NV Access, things won't work as expected when installed, no touchscreen support (very important for certain Windows 10 features) and so on.
For all practical purposes, you should install Windows 10 App Essentials add-on until such time when I say all major features from that add-on become part of NVDA screen reader (right now, it isn't). That's because:
1. Windows 10 App Essentials uses continuous delivery model. Unlike most of my add-ons I created or maintain (except another one), there is no major or minor releases of this add-on (at least on paper). Latest stable versions do include new features from Insider Preview builds, bug fixes, needed features for NVDA users and what not.
2. This add-on serves as a public testing version of pull requests that'll be sent to Nv Access after a period of usage. In recent months, NV Access has incorporated features from this add-on into NVDA. In one particular case, Mick Curran took inspiration from my add-on for a feature, and throughout 2017, I wrote or helped writing features seen today, including search suggestion sounds (originally came from my add-on).
There are certain things the add-on cannot do due to hacks involved, but for many things, the add-on should suffice.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 11:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me.
This Try-Build works great Joseph. I've only installed the Mozilla Apps Enhancements and Speech History extensions. NVDA works seamlessly with various Microsoft applications, especially Edge.
Always believed it's better to incorporate Windows app improvements into the main NVDA program, without having to install an extension.
Think I may stick with this NVDA build as my primary screen reader for
now on out.
On 7/13/2018 1:18 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
In short, the try build I posted yesterday is really Windows 10 App Essentials add-on incorporated inside NVDA itself. For months some folks have been asking me about inclusion of features from this add-on into NVDA screen reader directly, and yesterday's try build is a taste of that. Except for roledescription in Edge, features included are part of my add-on (that reminds me: I forgot to include a crucial feature in the try build (announcing the virtual desktop you're switching to), which I'll address in Version 1808).
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:56 AM
To: Nvda List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me.
Yes. That is before the add on. I noticed that when I was on a job website yesterday. It’s very flid and works a lot better.
On Jul 13, 2018, at 9:52 AM, Kenny <kwashingtonbox@gmail.com> wrote:
Good day,
Well with Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to invest more time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC.
Started things off with the Microsoft Edge browser.
Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn well with NVDA.
NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages automatically. It also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to quickly jump through web content.
Love... love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of Edge. This alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert.
I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to do then with Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional Treeview structure in their manager. Very nice!
The only problem I'm having is when I find myself sometimes being placed in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump back to the web page content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this at times.
Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display that entire pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and [Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key to hide/dismiss it again.
Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being released and us really caring about the changes Microsoft is implementing all the time to make their line of Windows applications more accessible got me thinking.
Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've
experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't
mean they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from
Insider testers and bug reports.)
Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has developed and stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools (Even the bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of.
By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard shortcuts:
Visit
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-short
cuts-list.html
It really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start using it more.
-Kenny
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I too am trying to use Edge more often. One question that I can't find the answer to is how to place a shortcut to Edge on the desktop. I see how to pin it to the start menu and task bar but not to the desktop. I tried finding the executable file for edge but can't even find that.
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Hi,
As for the try build being more useful with various apps, I wouldn't make that conclusion way early, as there are bugs to be found and fixed. The best comparison would be if the add-on is installed on current release and alpha builds.
As for using other builds as portable versions (if I'm getting your statement right), it's up to you. But my advice still stands: the try build is something you should not use as a primary driver (that is, as an installed copy).
Cheers,
Joseph
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 1:28 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me. Joseph, I'm going to be honest with you. I've tried the current releases of NVDA 2018.2, Developer's Master and this new Try Build release. The Try-Build release seems to work best on my system running the latest build of Microsoft Windows 10 Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.165.) Edge is much more responsive when using this TB release. Maybe it's some sort of fluke, but I really do like how this build works with Windows applications overall. Could the key be is to run the other two builds in portable mode for the Try-Build I'm running that way? On 7/13/2018 2:25 PM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
I advise against making my try build the primary version of NVDA on your computer for three important reasons:
1. New NVDA developments may break the try build, and in many cases, my try build will be out of date with "reality" too quickly (once the new release process is fully implemented and things start to pour into alpha builds).
2. Windows 10 uses continuous delivery model. In other words, things can change at a blink of an eye. The try build I wrote yesterday assumes you've got Windows 10 Version 1709 (build 16299) or later, and for emoji panel in particular, it assumes Windows 10 Redstone 5. In recent weeks Microsoft made significant changes to emoji panel in Redstone 5 builds, which means certain things won't work as advertised in older and newer builds.
3. My try build is not an official NV Access try build. This means no updates, no official support from NV Access, things won't work as expected when installed, no touchscreen support (very important for certain Windows 10 features) and so on.
For all practical purposes, you should install Windows 10 App Essentials add-on until such time when I say all major features from that add-on become part of NVDA screen reader (right now, it isn't). That's because:
1. Windows 10 App Essentials uses continuous delivery model. Unlike most of my add-ons I created or maintain (except another one), there is no major or minor releases of this add-on (at least on paper). Latest stable versions do include new features from Insider Preview builds, bug fixes, needed features for NVDA users and what not.
2. This add-on serves as a public testing version of pull requests that'll be sent to Nv Access after a period of usage. In recent months, NV Access has incorporated features from this add-on into NVDA. In one particular case, Mick Curran took inspiration from my add-on for a feature, and throughout 2017, I wrote or helped writing features seen today, including search suggestion sounds (originally came from my add-on).
There are certain things the add-on cannot do due to hacks involved, but for many things, the add-on should suffice.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 11:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me.
This Try-Build works great Joseph. I've only installed the Mozilla Apps Enhancements and Speech History extensions. NVDA works seamlessly with various Microsoft applications, especially Edge.
Always believed it's better to incorporate Windows app improvements into the main NVDA program, without having to install an extension.
Think I may stick with this NVDA build as my primary screen reader for
now on out.
On 7/13/2018 1:18 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
In short, the try build I posted yesterday is really Windows 10 App Essentials add-on incorporated inside NVDA itself. For months some folks have been asking me about inclusion of features from this add-on into NVDA screen reader directly, and yesterday's try build is a taste of that. Except for roledescription in Edge, features included are part of my add-on (that reminds me: I forgot to include a crucial feature in the try build (announcing the virtual desktop you're switching to), which I'll address in Version 1808).
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:56 AM
To: Nvda List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me.
Yes. That is before the add on. I noticed that when I was on a job website yesterday. It’s very flid and works a lot better.
On Jul 13, 2018, at 9:52 AM, Kenny <kwashingtonbox@gmail.com> wrote:
Good day,
Well with Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to invest more time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC.
Started things off with the Microsoft Edge browser.
Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn well with NVDA.
NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages automatically. It also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to quickly jump through web content.
Love... love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of Edge. This alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert.
I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to do then with Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional Treeview structure in their manager. Very nice!
The only problem I'm having is when I find myself sometimes being placed in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump back to the web page content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this at times.
Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display that entire pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and [Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key to hide/dismiss it again.
Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being released and us really caring about the changes Microsoft is implementing all the time to make their line of Windows applications more accessible got me thinking.
Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've
experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't
mean they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from
Insider testers and bug reports.)
Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has developed and stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools (Even the bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of.
By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard shortcuts:
Visit
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-short
cuts-list.html
It really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start using it more.
-Kenny
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Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
You first hit [Windows key]+[s]. Then type in Edge. Highlight the "Microsoft Edge" reference from the listed results, and bring up the context menu. Select "Pin to taskbar" menu option.
Then navigate to the Microsoft Edge shortcut now found on your Taskbar. Bring up the Context menu again and select "Create shortcut."
Windows will display a dialog box saying the following:
"Shortcut dialog Windows can't create a shortcut here.
Do you want the shortcut to be placed on the desktop instead?"
You select Yes and then you're done.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 7/13/2018 4:57 PM, Don H wrote: I too am trying to use Edge more often. One question that I can't find the answer to is how to place a shortcut to Edge on the desktop. I see how to pin it to the start menu and task bar but not to the desktop. I tried finding the executable file for edge but can't even find that.
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In Edge all the shortcut keys ctrl+j and ctrl+I works, at least with jaws 2018! Are you having a problem with NVDA in Edge saying entering navigation, exiting navigation; entering search, exiting search etc… E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee
From: KennySent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:52 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me. Good day, Well with Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to invest more time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC. Started things off with the Microsoft Edge browser. Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn well with NVDA. NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages automatically. It also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to quickly jump through web content. Love... love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of Edge. This alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert. I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to do then with Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional Treeview structure in their manager. Very nice! The only problem I'm having is when I find myself sometimes being placed in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump back to the web page content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this at times. Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display that entire pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and [Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key to hide/dismiss it again. Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being released and us really caring about the changes Microsoft is implementing all the time to make their line of Windows applications more accessible got me thinking. Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't mean they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from Insider testers and bug reports.) Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has developed and stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools (Even the bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of. By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard shortcuts: Visit https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-shortcuts-list.html It really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start using it more. -Kenny
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Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
When I use the Try-Build, NVDA works with Microsoft Edge
perfectly. Have no problems with anything, but sometimes being
thrown in the icons pain of Edge. There is something about this
build that my PC running the latest build of Windows 10 Spring
Creator loves.
Even ETI Eloquence sounds fuller and responds better when using
it.
Is there a list or something I can subscribe too for alerts on
any updates? I'm sticking with this as my primary screen reader
even though Joseph warns me against doing so. Sorry, but it works
much better for me overall, especially with Edge.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 7/14/2018 11:15 AM, Kevin wrote:
In Edge all the shortcut keys ctrl+j and
ctrl+I works, at least with jaws 2018!
Are you having a problem with NVDA in Edge
saying entering navigation, exiting navigation; entering
search, exiting search etc…
E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee
From:
Kenny
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow
on Me.
Good day,
Well with Joseph's announcement about the
NVDA Try Build, I decided to
invest more time in using Microsoft's
applications on my Windows 10 PC.
Started things off with the Microsoft Edge
browser.
Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot
of changes have recently
been made to Edge overall, but it works
pretty damn well with NVDA.
NVDA reads All of the push notification bar
messages automatically. It
also informs me when the page has fully
loaded (Loading complete.) Most
of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts
do work to quickly jump
through web content.
Love... love... love... the Reading View
([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of
Edge. This alone is starting to make me a
Chrome to Edge convert.
I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in
Edge is much much easier to
do then with Chrome in my humble opinion.
Microsoft uses a traditional
Treeview structure in their manager. Very
nice!
The only problem I'm having is when I find
myself sometimes being placed
in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I
quickly jump back to the web page
content by pressing [F6]. I just get
annoyed with this at times.
Curious why they don't implement a shortcut
key to display that entire
pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites,
[Ctrl]+[h] for History, and
[Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply
hit the [Escape] key to
hide/dismiss it again.
Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the
Try-Build of NVDA being
released and us really caring about the
changes Microsoft is
implementing all the time to make their
line of Windows applications
more accessible got me thinking.
Why can't I give their programs a chance?
Yes, in the past I've
experienced a lot of problems with their
applications. That doesn't mean
they've not made efforts to correct things
(Due to feedback from Insider
testers and bug reports.)
Time for me to start using the free tools
Microsoft has developed and
stop searching for replacements. And I mean
all of the tools (Even the
bug report and feedback submission tools.)
This is key to helping
Microsoft fix things they may not yet be
aware of.
By the way, if you want a nice resource
listing Microsoft Edge keyboard
shortcuts:
Visit
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-shortcuts-list.html
It really has morphed into a pretty good
browser. I'm going to start
using it more.
-Kenny
|
|
|
Yes, NVDA and edge are working better for me than Chrome as well. I am very excited as well about how much feedback I get in Edge. For example, NVDA will say: Do you want to save or open the file, and gives a key command. Chrome does not give you that feedback. It is very exciting, because edge can do so much. David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: KennySent: Sunday, July 15, 2018 1:32 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me. When I use the Try-Build, NVDA works with Microsoft Edge perfectly. Have no problems with anything, but sometimes being thrown in the icons pain of Edge. There is something about this build that my PC running the latest build of Windows 10 Spring Creator loves. Even ETI Eloquence sounds fuller and responds better when using it. Is there a list or something I can subscribe too for alerts on any updates? I'm sticking with this as my primary screen reader even though Joseph warns me against doing so. Sorry, but it works much better for me overall, especially with Edge. On 7/14/2018 11:15 AM, Kevin wrote: In Edge all the shortcut keys ctrl+j and ctrl+I works, at least with jaws 2018! Are you having a problem with NVDA in Edge saying entering navigation, exiting navigation; entering search, exiting search etc… E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee From: Kenny
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft Edge is Starting to Grow on Me. Good day, Well with Joseph's announcement about the NVDA Try Build, I decided to invest more time in using Microsoft's applications on my Windows 10 PC. Started things off with the Microsoft Edge browser. Not sure if it's the new Try-Build or a lot of changes have recently been made to Edge overall, but it works pretty damn well with NVDA. NVDA reads All of the push notification bar messages automatically. It also informs me when the page has fully loaded (Loading complete.) Most of the NVDA quick navigation key shortcuts do work to quickly jump through web content. Love... love... love... the Reading View ([Ctrl]+[Shift]+[r]) feature of Edge. This alone is starting to make me a Chrome to Edge convert. I hate to say it, but managing Favorites in Edge is much much easier to do then with Chrome in my humble opinion. Microsoft uses a traditional Treeview structure in their manager. Very nice! The only problem I'm having is when I find myself sometimes being placed in the toolbar icons pain of Edge. I quickly jump back to the web page content by pressing [F6]. I just get annoyed with this at times. Curious why they don't implement a shortcut key to display that entire pain (Similar to [Ctrl]+[i] for Favorites, [Ctrl]+[h] for History, and [Ctrl]+[j] for Downloads?) I could simply hit the [Escape] key to hide/dismiss it again. Reading Joseph's recent email regarding the Try-Build of NVDA being released and us really caring about the changes Microsoft is implementing all the time to make their line of Windows applications more accessible got me thinking. Why can't I give their programs a chance? Yes, in the past I've experienced a lot of problems with their applications. That doesn't mean they've not made efforts to correct things (Due to feedback from Insider testers and bug reports.) Time for me to start using the free tools Microsoft has developed and stop searching for replacements. And I mean all of the tools (Even the bug report and feedback submission tools.) This is key to helping Microsoft fix things they may not yet be aware of. By the way, if you want a nice resource listing Microsoft Edge keyboard shortcuts: Visit https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5620-microsoft-edge-keyboard-shortcuts-list.html It really has morphed into a pretty good browser. I'm going to start using it more. -Kenny
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brian <sackriderbrian45@...>
On windows 10 version 18.3 it has edge on the desk top.
Brian Sackrider
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 7/13/2018 4:57 PM, Don H wrote: I too am trying to use Edge more often. One question that I can't find the answer to is how to place a shortcut to Edge on the desktop. I see how to pin it to the start menu and task bar but not to the desktop. I tried finding the executable file for edge but can't even find that.
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