1. nvda@nvda.groups.io
Topics

Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

Akshaya Choudhary
 

Hello season users of screen readers!
Advice me on this. I'm a student and require to read large texts on regular basis. Although, this is something I love doing, it would be very beneficial if I could improve my reading, or shall I say listening speed, with NVDA. I would like to retain the same level of comprehension I have right now at higher speeds. I have gradually moved up my way to 95% without boost in NVDA, so I know it could be done. But, I'm finding it difficult to move forward. Also, beyond 95% and in boost mode Espeak MAx starts to flutter. It is still very comprehensible, but the fluttering voice is annoying. Can you guys suggest me ways to upgrade my listening game? Do I need to switch to a different variant voice of Espeak or shall I change my synthesizer? Is there a cap to how fast can we listen?
All suggestions are welcome!
Also let me know at what speed rates do you guys read your screen readers on/

Regards
Claire Potter <claire.potter99@...>
 

Hi, I have the same problem, what I will say is that if you want to read large amounts just be aware that using speech is really tiring, I use braille for that reason ad have a braille display, I find that much easier. 

Warm regards, Claire Potter, Check out my brand new website: http://www.pottersplace.me.uk/
On 14/07/2018 10:22, Sociohack AC wrote:

Hello season users of screen readers!
Advice me on this. I'm a student and require to read large texts on regular basis. Although, this is something I love doing, it would be very beneficial if I could improve my reading, or shall I say listening speed, with NVDA. I would like to retain the same level of comprehension I have right now at higher speeds. I have gradually moved up my way to 95% without boost in NVDA, so I know it could be done. But, I'm finding it difficult to move forward. Also, beyond 95% and in boost mode Espeak MAx starts to flutter. It is still very comprehensible, but the fluttering voice is annoying. Can you guys suggest me ways to upgrade my listening game? Do I need to switch to a different variant voice of Espeak or shall I change my synthesizer? Is there a cap to how fast can we listen?
All suggestions are welcome!
Also let me know at what speed rates do you guys read your screen readers on/

Regards

Akshaya Choudhary
 


-- but, doesn't Braille slows you down further? 
Speed is my main conceen.  
Regards,
Sociohack
Claire Potter <claire.potter99@...>
  

Certainly not! I find it much more productive to read braille. Warm regards, Claire Potter, Check out my brand new website: http://www.pottersplace.me.uk/
On 14/07/2018 11:12, Sociohack AC wrote:


-- but, doesn't Braille slows you down further? 
Speed is my main conceen.  
Regards,
Sociohack

Antony Stone
 

Different people have different speeds - both of listening, and reading Braille
(just as different sighted people can read at different speeds).

I would suggest the choice of synthesiser (which is an entirely personal
choice - no-one else can tell you what you find easiest and most pleasant to
work with) is going to make the biggest difference to how fast you can listen.


Antony.

On Saturday 14 July 2018 at 12:12:54, Sociohack AC wrote:

-- but, doesn't Braille slows you down further?
Speed is my main conceen.
Regards,
Sociohack
--
I think broken pencils are pointless.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.
Devin Prater
 

I'd try speeding up the speech just a little, getting used to that point where you can repeat what the speech says, and keep speeding up until you're where you want to be.

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On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 5:16 AM -0500, "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...> wrote:

Different people have different speeds - both of listening, and reading Braille 
(just as different sighted people can read at different speeds).

I would suggest the choice of synthesiser (which is an entirely personal 
choice - no-one else can tell you what you find easiest and most pleasant to 
work with) is going to make the biggest difference to how fast you can listen.


Antony.

On Saturday 14 July 2018 at 12:12:54, Sociohack AC wrote:

> -- but, doesn't Braille slows you down further? 
> Speed is my main conceen.  
> Regards,
> Sociohack

-- 
I think broken pencils are pointless.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.

Gene
 

This message is long but it may be quite helpful.
 
Maybe someone can tell you what variant they like and that may help narrow down the ones you try but there response may be different than yours to different variants.
 
I don't like e-speak in any variant.  Some variants are a little better than others but you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, as the cliché has it. 
 
Why not try the SAPI 5 Eloquence demo.  If you like Eloquence, in my opinion, it is one of the best synthesizers for intelligibility at fast speeds, and it pronounces more words correctly than other synthesizers I've used and tried.  That may be the answer. 
 
As for trying different variants of E-Speak, have you noticed that when you move from variant to variant in the list, speech changes to that variant when the announcement of the name of the variant is made?  That may help you determine which variants you want to try and which ones are less harsh and annoying. 
 
When trying different variants, it is important to know that if you don't close the program while using a different speech synthesizer or variant or while speed settings are different, then after trying something, you can immediately return to your original synthesizer, variant, and other settings by using the command control NVDA key r.  You will hear "configuration applied" spoken. 
 
That means that the configuration you were using before you changed anything is being used again.  If you close the program, it saves whatever changes you have made and you have lost the old settings.  The settings NVDA is using are the saved configuration.  When you close NVDA, it saves the configuration you are currently using.
 
If you don't want this to happen so you don't accidentally save settings you don't want to make permanent, do the following:
Issue the command control NVDA key g.
The general settings dialog will open.  Tab to a check box that says save settings on exit or something very similar.  Uncheck it with the space gbar.  Tab to and activate the ok button.  The dialog will close.  But the setting has been changed, not saved as a part of the saved configuration.  To manually save settings permanently, issue the command control NVDA key c.  Now, you will never accidentally save settings by closing NVDA or by rebooting, when NVDA is running, which will close NVDA and thus unintentionally save temporary settings.
 
You will now only save settings permanently when you want to. 
 
Suppose you want to change speech settings or any other settings for a specific use.  You can now do so, and when you want to use the other settings again, the ones you have permanently saved, use the command I told you about at the outset, control NVDA key r.  You don't have to waste time manually setting things back to how they were before.  You have instantly gone back to all the old settings with one command. 
 
In my strong opinion, automatically save settings on exit should not be the default command.  there is such a thing as too much automation.  People should be expected to learn certain things about programs they use and how to manually save settings is one of them.  It is very bad practice to have a program assume that someone wants to save settings any time they reboot or close a program.  If I want to read a specific thing at 400 words a minute and I usually read at 350 words per minute, if I want punctuation set to most for proofreading one document and want punctuation off as a general setting, these temporary changes should not be saved if my computer spontaneously reboots because of a technical problem or I forget and reboot for some reason. 
 
If I want to use certain browse mode settings on one web site, I should be able to do so and not run the risk that they will be unintentionally saved.
 
Those learning the program should have the freedom to try any settings they wish without accidentally having them be saved. 
 

For those who are persuaded to an extent by ,
Gene----- Original Message -----

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 4:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

Hello season users of screen readers!
Advice me on this. I'm a student and require to read large texts on regular basis. Although, this is something I love doing, it would be very beneficial if I could improve my reading, or shall I say listening speed, with NVDA. I would like to retain the same level of comprehension I have right now at higher speeds. I have gradually moved up my way to 95% without boost in NVDA, so I know it could be done. But, I'm finding it difficult to move forward. Also, beyond 95% and in boost mode Espeak MAx starts to flutter. It is still very comprehensible, but the fluttering voice is annoying. Can you guys suggest me ways to upgrade my listening game? Do I need to switch to a different variant voice of Espeak or shall I change my synthesizer? Is there a cap to how fast can we listen?
All suggestions are welcome!
Also let me know at what speed rates do you guys read your screen readers on/

Regards

Gene
 

You may find speech tiring.  That is your reaction and can't be generalized.  I would much rather listen to speech than read Braille.  Different people react differently to Braille and speech.  I suspect it has partly something to do with how brain structure and function differ in different people. 
 
I've read a lot of Braille and I find speech for me, to be much faster if I listen at fast speeds and not to require the kind of work, for me, in the exspenditure of effort, that Braille does. 
 
If I listen to a bad synthesizer, that is fatiguing and requires work.  Listening to a good one doesn't.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

Hi, I have the same problem, what I will say is that if you want to read large amounts just be aware that using speech is really tiring, I use braille for that reason ad have a braille display, I find that much easier. 

Warm regards, Claire Potter, Check out my brand new website: http://www.pottersplace.me.uk/
On 14/07/2018 10:22, Sociohack AC wrote:
Hello season users of screen readers!
Advice me on this. I'm a student and require to read large texts on regular basis. Although, this is something I love doing, it would be very beneficial if I could improve my reading, or shall I say listening speed, with NVDA. I would like to retain the same level of comprehension I have right now at higher speeds. I have gradually moved up my way to 95% without boost in NVDA, so I know it could be done. But, I'm finding it difficult to move forward. Also, beyond 95% and in boost mode Espeak MAx starts to flutter. It is still very comprehensible, but the fluttering voice is annoying. Can you guys suggest me ways to upgrade my listening game? Do I need to switch to a different variant voice of Espeak or shall I change my synthesizer? Is there a cap to how fast can we listen?
All suggestions are welcome!
Also let me know at what speed rates do you guys read your screen readers on/

Regards

Gene
 

I've seen Braille readers read at speeds I estimate to be perhaps 250 or 300 words per minute.  Most Braille readers I've observed have been much slower, tending, by my rough guess, to read at around 180 or 170 words per minute.  These are my observations of about fifteen or twenty Braille readers, many of them, reading Braille since grammar school.  It is not a proper sample but to me, it is suggestive.
 
Are there techniques that slower Braille readers can use to significantly increase their speed?  I don't know,  Did some of these people learn to read Braille in different ways in terms of technique?  I don't know.  but that appears to me to be suggestive of the situation as it stands.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers


-- but, doesn't Braille slows you down further? 
Speed is my main conceen.  
Regards,
Sociohack

Cristóbal
 

I’m a pretty compitant Braille reader. My general observation is that for the really fast or those who use/prefer Braille learned the skill from a  really, really  early age and didn’t have to ever transition from sighted reading. Most likely people who have either been blind all their life or had no useable vision from again, a very early age. Not that someone later in life couldn’t pick up the skill, but I’m going to guess that even the most dedicated adopters of Braille in these circumstances would never be able to reach the level or proficiency of an early adopter. Even prisoners  who become Braille transcribers physically look at the Braille. I’m sure it has to do with something in the brain structure and all the funky connectors that are going on when you’re very young with absorbing information In a tactile form instead of visually and so on.

My vision loss was gradual and while I picked up Braille while I could still see, it wasn’t until my teens that I had to really give up print.

I cant’ even imagine trying to read a book or anything really for an extended period of time in Braille. Much less at a rate of speed that would make it even remotely close to synthesizer reading and comprehension. Mind you, I went to college out of the country and got my degree mainly with the old school methods of readers and my own Braille notes. So it’s not that I’m adverse to Braille per say, but man, talk about shutter at the thought of going full Braille. I would find it physically and mentally exhausting.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 8:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

 

I've seen Braille readers read at speeds I estimate to be perhaps 250 or 300 words per minute.  Most Braille readers I've observed have been much slower, tending, by my rough guess, to read at around 180 or 170 words per minute.  These are my observations of about fifteen or twenty Braille readers, many of them, reading Braille since grammar school.  It is not a proper sample but to me, it is suggestive.

 

Are there techniques that slower Braille readers can use to significantly increase their speed?  I don't know,  Did some of these people learn to read Braille in different ways in terms of technique?  I don't know.  but that appears to me to be suggestive of the situation as it stands.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 5:12 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

 


-- but, doesn't Braille slows you down further? 
Speed is my main conceen.  
Regards,
Sociohack

Rob Hudson
 

Cristóbal <cristobalmuli@gmail.com> wrote:
I cant’ even imagine trying to read a book or anything really for an extended period of time in Braille. Much less at a rate of speed that would make it even remotely close to synthesizer reading and comprehension.
I am a competent enough braille reader that I gave some thought to working for a company narrating things on tape, or mp3, or whatever they do nowadays. When I was in school, I got called on to read aloud in English class more than almost anyone else there.
The only problem I see is that if i'm reading books in audible format, the clicking of the braille display will be heard. I guess a noise gate could filter that out, but that adds more processing time, which adds more expense, which brings the cost to benefit ratio of hiring me too out of balance. Another dream down the tubes.
Sarah k Alawami
 

I’m at 80 wpm. I used to be at 100 I can listen though at about 350 to 400 wpm, or even faster. Just practice practice practice is all I can say.

On Jul 14, 2018, at 8:09 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I've seen Braille readers read at speeds I estimate to be perhaps 250 or 300 words per minute.  Most Braille readers I've observed have been much slower, tending, by my rough guess, to read at around 180 or 170 words per minute.  These are my observations of about fifteen or twenty Braille readers, many of them, reading Braille since grammar school.  It is not a proper sample but to me, it is suggestive.
 
Are there techniques that slower Braille readers can use to significantly increase their speed?  I don't know,  Did some of these people learn to read Braille in different ways in terms of technique?  I don't know.  but that appears to me to be suggestive of the situation as it stands.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers


-- but, doesn't Braille slows you down further? 
Speed is my main conceen.  
Regards,
Sociohack

Cristóbal
 

That's impressive. Lemme guess, you were an early adopter of Braille? I
can't recall many instances of someone who learned Braille beyond a really
early age where they could read out loud at the rate and fluidity of a
sighted person with print. At least not for an extended period of time.
I’m sure there have to be exceptions to the rule as with most things, but
I'll bet it's pretty rare.
I just wish NVDA would get better at Braille support. With my Brailliant BI
40, can't really make use of the command keys.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rob Hudson
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

Cristóbal <cristobalmuli@gmail.com> wrote:
I cant’ even imagine trying to read a book or anything really for an
extended period of time in Braille. Much less at a rate of speed that would
make it even remotely close to synthesizer reading and comprehension.

I am a competent enough braille reader that I gave some thought to working
for a company narrating things on tape, or mp3, or whatever they do
nowadays. When I was in school, I got called on to read aloud in English
class more than almost anyone else there.
The only problem I see is that if i'm reading books in audible format, the
clicking of the braille display will be heard. I guess a noise gate could
filter that out, but that adds more processing time, which adds more
expense, which brings the cost to benefit ratio of hiring me too out of
balance. Another dream down the tubes.
Rob Hudson
 

Cristóbal <cristobalmuli@gmail.com> wrote:
That's impressive. Lemme guess, you were an early adopter of Braille?
I was born pretty much blind, and I learned braille while the baby sighties were struggling to make periods with little pencils, yes. Having learned braille so early, it was all I knew and therefore I had nothing to unlearn.
The Wolf
 

I have eloquence set to 65 percent 112 words a minute

it took me a couple of years to get my brain trained to under stand the speech that fast but that is what I have mine set at


On 7/14/2018 2:22 AM, Sociohack AC wrote:
Hello season users of screen readers!
Advice me on this. I'm a student and require to read large texts on regular basis. Although, this is something I love doing, it would be very beneficial if I could improve my reading, or shall I say listening speed, with NVDA. I would like to retain the same level of comprehension I have right now at higher speeds. I have gradually moved up my way to 95% without boost in NVDA, so I know it could be done. But, I'm finding it difficult to move forward. Also, beyond 95% and in boost mode Espeak MAx starts to flutter. It is still very comprehensible, but the fluttering voice is annoying. Can you guys suggest me ways to upgrade my listening game? Do I need to switch to a different variant voice of Espeak or shall I change my synthesizer? Is there a cap to how fast can we listen?
All suggestions are welcome!
Also let me know at what speed rates do you guys read your screen readers on/

Regards 

-- 
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y

Akshaya Choudhary
 

I came across this guy on one of the forums, he claimed of having using NVDA at 63% with rate boost turned on. I tried it myself, and it is something like over 1000 wpm. You guys can give it a shot. But, I don't think something like this is even achievable.
--
Regards,
Sociohack
Devin Prater
 

I can read 95 words per minute, but know some older blind people that can read over 140 words per minute, but they read huge amounts of braille. 

On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 1:28 PM Sociohack AC <acsociopath@...> wrote:
I came across this guy on one of the forums, he claimed of having using NVDA at 63% with rate boost turned on. I tried it myself, and it is something like over 1000 wpm. You guys can give it a shot. But, I don't think something like this is even achievable. 
-- 
Regards, 
Sociohack





























--

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Generally, I find on most synthesizers, running at 100 percent is difficult, because the speech rate causes it to break up, and that makes it difficult if not impossible to understand.  I have to run Ivan 3 at 99 percent for windows, on the Iphone, I can only run at 95 percent (some voices only at 90 percent) because putting it at 100 percent makes the voice sound like it has a sore throat, and doesn't sound good at all.  Interestingly enough though, on OSX, I routinely run voices at 100 percent, and occasionally even faster than that (when I can get it to work), and they work just fine, or at least they did last time I used a mac, which has been a couple months, due to issues with the laptop I have, but regardless, I find that in general, maxing out speech rate does nasty things to the voice quality, which makes it difficult to get maximum usage out of the synthesizers.  Besides that, I have no idea how you would even guess at how many words per minute a particular speech rate gives you, so I can't verify the speeds folks post, because I have no way to confirm, those speeds.


On 7/14/2018 1:52 PM, The Wolf wrote:

I have eloquence set to 65 percent 112 words a minute

it took me a couple of years to get my brain trained to under stand the speech that fast but that is what I have mine set at


On 7/14/2018 2:22 AM, Sociohack AC wrote:
Hello season users of screen readers!
Advice me on this. I'm a student and require to read large texts on regular basis. Although, this is something I love doing, it would be very beneficial if I could improve my reading, or shall I say listening speed, with NVDA. I would like to retain the same level of comprehension I have right now at higher speeds. I have gradually moved up my way to 95% without boost in NVDA, so I know it could be done. But, I'm finding it difficult to move forward. Also, beyond 95% and in boost mode Espeak MAx starts to flutter. It is still very comprehensible, but the fluttering voice is annoying. Can you guys suggest me ways to upgrade my listening game? Do I need to switch to a different variant voice of Espeak or shall I change my synthesizer? Is there a cap to how fast can we listen?
All suggestions are welcome!
Also let me know at what speed rates do you guys read your screen readers on/

Regards 

-- 
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Cristóbal
 

My eloquence is usually between 82/85% with Jaws. Eloquence with NVDA for whatever reason feels somehow different. On some of the NVDA voices, I max out and it still doesn’t’ feel as fast as JFW eloquence.

Ultimately depends on the ear I suppose. Again though, no way I’d ever be able to get anywhere this fast with Braille.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 2:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers

 

Generally, I find on most synthesizers, running at 100 percent is difficult, because the speech rate causes it to break up, and that makes it difficult if not impossible to understand.  I have to run Ivan 3 at 99 percent for windows, on the Iphone, I can only run at 95 percent (some voices only at 90 percent) because putting it at 100 percent makes the voice sound like it has a sore throat, and doesn't sound good at all.  Interestingly enough though, on OSX, I routinely run voices at 100 percent, and occasionally even faster than that (when I can get it to work), and they work just fine, or at least they did last time I used a mac, which has been a couple months, due to issues with the laptop I have, but regardless, I find that in general, maxing out speech rate does nasty things to the voice quality, which makes it difficult to get maximum usage out of the synthesizers.  Besides that, I have no idea how you would even guess at how many words per minute a particular speech rate gives you, so I can't verify the speeds folks post, because I have no way to confirm, those speeds.

 

On 7/14/2018 1:52 PM, The Wolf wrote:

I have eloquence set to 65 percent 112 words a minute

it took me a couple of years to get my brain trained to under stand the speech that fast but that is what I have mine set at

 

On 7/14/2018 2:22 AM, Sociohack AC wrote:

Hello season users of screen readers!
Advice me on this. I'm a student and require to read large texts on regular basis. Although, this is something I love doing, it would be very beneficial if I could improve my reading, or shall I say listening speed, with NVDA. I would like to retain the same level of comprehension I have right now at higher speeds. I have gradually moved up my way to 95% without boost in NVDA, so I know it could be done. But, I'm finding it difficult to move forward. Also, beyond 95% and in boost mode Espeak MAx starts to flutter. It is still very comprehensible, but the fluttering voice is annoying. Can you guys suggest me ways to upgrade my listening game? Do I need to switch to a different variant voice of Espeak or shall I change my synthesizer? Is there a cap to how fast can we listen?
All suggestions are welcome!
Also let me know at what speed rates do you guys read your screen readers on/

Regards 



-- 
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y
 

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Unfortunately I think it depends on the person. I know people who regularly read so fast I simply cannot understand it. I also find that it gives me a headache if I set it too fast.
I imagine it depends on the person, what their first language is and if they are listening in it and also the actual voice and synth in use.
I never get anywhere near 95, but then I have no pressing need to most times.

I do find the more artifical voices better at spead than the so called human sounding ones probably due to the whay certain sylables aare handled.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sociohack AC" <acsociopath@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 10:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] Tips for speed reading /listening with screen readers


Hello season users of screen readers!
Advice me on this. I'm a student and require to read large texts on regular basis. Although, this is something I love doing, it would be very beneficial if I could improve my reading, or shall I say listening speed, with NVDA. I would like to retain the same level of comprehension I have right now at higher speeds. I have gradually moved up my way to 95% without boost in NVDA, so I know it could be done. But, I'm finding it difficult to move forward. Also, beyond 95% and in boost mode Espeak MAx starts to flutter. It is still very comprehensible, but the fluttering voice is annoying. Can you guys suggest me ways to upgrade my listening game? Do I need to switch to a different variant voice of Espeak or shall I change my synthesizer? Is there a cap to how fast can we listen?
All suggestions are welcome!
Also let me know at what speed rates do you guys read your screen readers on/

Regards
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