New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess


 

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 03:56 PM, Rob DeZonia wrote:
How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10
Learning Windows 10 is a lot less challenging than learning Windows 8/8.1 was, since Windows 8/8.1 made a tectonic shift in the UI where it was presumed that pretty much all the world would be using touch screen devices - which simply isn't the case and never will be.

Windows 10 is a marriage between what was good about Windows 7 and earlier as well as the things that were good about Windows 8.  I found it much easier to transition directly from Windows 7 to Windows 10 than it was for my partner to transition (with lots of assistance and frustration on my part) from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1.  When he was on 8.1 we made it as "Windows 7-like" as we could without installing something like Classic Shell.

The Windows 10 start menu is a big change from 7 but since I put desktop shortcuts on for virtually anything I use frequently I seldom need the start menu.  Even when I do, I hit the Windows Key and start typing the name of the thing I'm trying to find and run, and way more than 9 times out of 10 it's either the first thing returned in the search list or the only thing if I go beyond 4 characters.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Windows 8 was a complete failure, nobody liked it, and it was a bit buggy. However, windows 8.1 fixed most of the issues folks had with the os, and many many folks use windows 8.1 every single day, Myself among them. I have no problems with 8.1 except for things related to virus scanning software, but I understand that's not unique to 8.1 anyway, so I don't worry about it. There is also an issue that will sometimes prevent a program from installing correctly on 8.1 which has no issues on windows 10 or 7, and although those programs are few, they are problems at times. I've personally runinto 2 or 3 of those programs, some of which I got installed anyways by working around the windows install process, but I understand that some folks won't have that option, so in those kinds of cases, 8.1 may not be an os they would like to run. Me personally though? I like it, and because of licensing issues when switching to windows 10, I will wait until the absolute last moment to upgrade, (or I'll just go back to linux and OSX depending on how I feel about it all at that point.


 

Well, portable means portable I guess.

So web apps should work, the net works at any rate, basic admin tasks, etc but yes a lot of extras need installed versions at least anything that needs admin access.

On 7/18/2018 8:37 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Could I also add here. If you want to use a portable version of NVDA you will find it very much better on windows 7 than 10, simply because they use UIA a lot more and that needs you to be a user of the machine, ie somebody wityh install rights and all of that to use it. Portable versions often struggle in places in 10 where it just works in 7.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob DeZonia" <robd1953@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 7:43 PM
Subject: [nvda] New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess


Howdy list,

I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.
Thanks for your help and your attention.







Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Could I also add here. If you want to use a portable version of NVDA you will find it very much better on windows 7 than 10, simply because they use UIA a lot more and that needs you to be a user of the machine, ie somebody wityh install rights and all of that to use it. Portable versions often struggle in places in 10 where it just works in 7.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob DeZonia" <robd1953@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 7:43 PM
Subject: [nvda] New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess


Howdy list,

I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.
Thanks for your help and your attention.


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

My first multitasking environment was Desqview by Quarterdeck
Very good multi tasking of dos.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess


To be honest though that would count for me for every upgrade.

I updated from dos to windows because of hardware and the fact I wanted more than 1 task.

I updated from win95 to win 98 because I could.

I updated from 98 to xp because of better drivers support etc.

I updated from xp to 7 because of security reasons and my computer died.

But I could have continued on xp for ever more.

I will update to 10 because of firstly security and secondly, I can't use anything over 6th generation pluss win7 is about dead anyway.

But if I had the choice I'd still be on stable xp.




On 7/17/2018 9:35 AM, Gene wrote:
Are there features you want or apps you want to run that you can't run now? If you have a reason to upgrade such as that, you may want to. If you are more curious and have no strong reason to do so, I have real reservations about whether its worth upgrading a computer you are satisfied with.

You may find some problem or annoyance you really don't want to deal with and you may not be happy if you upgrade just to upgrade and have one or more annoying problems, even if you solve them. And Windows 10 comes out with a major upgrade every six months, which you must accept. Some people have problems after an upgrade.

You might want to consider getting a tablet to play with Windows 10 if you are just getting it out of curiosity and not because of features or apps you consider important.

Gene


From: Rob DeZonia
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 1:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess


Howdy list,

I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.
Thanks for your help and your attention.




Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

My reply is probably not what others will say.
If its your only machine and its important to you that it is stable and does not need a whole new installation of windows every six months. Stay where you are. You have at least two more years.
Windows 10 is a good version of windows. It is just a shame that they don't leave people alone with it and make it optional to have all the updated new stuff every six months with the problems it generates for installed apps and screenreaders updates to catch up. As you will see later on Skype is being done away with as most of us have come to know it in favour of an all singing all dancing version that is more like a mobile app then a desktop one with nice little graphics of the people in the call and a cloud recording function.
All very nice if you are a corporate user, but I'd really like to see an old fashioned front end for the average home user.
They of course say that they have fixed the access issues with it, but there is a lot of difference in my experience between accessible and usable. Many cluttered web sites are accessible but their usability is absolutely awful, a problem many windows apps are heading toward with the loss of a menu and property sheet model.

Now it seems like you need to have an overview of a screen to be able to make intelligent choices or the memory of an elephant for all the shortcut keys.



As I say, moving the goalposts all the time eventually becomes self defeating in my view.
I'm sure corporate users are not updating their whole raft of machines this often, and that makes me wonder why we are?
Brian
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob DeZonia" <robd1953@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 7:43 PM
Subject: [nvda] New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess


Howdy list,

I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.
Thanks for your help and your attention.


 

To be honest though that would count for me for every upgrade.

I updated from dos to windows because of hardware and the fact I wanted more than 1 task.

I updated from win95 to win 98 because I could.

I updated from 98 to xp because of better drivers support etc.

I updated from xp to 7 because of security reasons and my computer died.

But I could have continued on xp for ever more.

I will update to 10 because of firstly security and secondly, I can't use anything over 6th generation pluss win7 is about dead anyway.

But if I had the choice I'd still be on stable xp.

On 7/17/2018 9:35 AM, Gene wrote:
Are there features you want or apps you want to run that you can't run now? If you have a reason to upgrade such as that, you may want to. If you are more curious and have no strong reason to do so, I have real reservations about whether its worth upgrading a computer you are satisfied with.

You may find some problem or annoyance you really don't want to deal with and you may not be happy if you upgrade just to upgrade and have one or more annoying problems, even if you solve them. And Windows 10 comes out with a major upgrade every six months, which you must accept. Some people have problems after an upgrade.

You might want to consider getting a tablet to play with Windows 10 if you are just getting it out of curiosity and not because of features or apps you consider important.

Gene


From: Rob DeZonia
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 1:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess


Howdy list,

I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.
Thanks for your help and your attention.



 

Hi,
Well, we had significant changes on Win10, anyway I still recomend you update it.
Why? Well, the question isn't exactly this but you should wonder "why not?".
When you update something you have the newest version of that thing, what means to say you're supposed to have the best experience with this.
But backing to Win10, despite the changes I mentioned, you can still use it perfectly without much problems, I guess.
It's just a matter of time and a bit of your heffort and it'll be alright.

About Edge, personaly I don't use it, that's not my way browser, you know what I mean?
So, remember that you, like me, always can use a different browser, such as Firefox, Chrome or another you'd like.

Well I guess I wrote more than I should, so I'll stop here.
I hope you consider updating your system, surely it'll be the best you'll do.

P.S.: Let me sorry for my English and if there's something wrong, I'm just a brazilian guy trying to learn and practice it :)

Em 16/07/2018 15:43, Rob DeZonia escreveu:

Howdy list,
 
I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.
Thanks for your help and your attention.


Gene
 

Are there features you want or apps you want to run that you can't run now?  If you have a reason to upgrade such as that, you may want to.  If you are more curious and have no strong reason to do so, I have real reservations about whether its worth upgrading a computer you are satisfied with. 
 
You may find some problem or annoyance you really don't want to deal with and you may not be happy if you upgrade just to upgrade and have one or more annoying problems, even if you solve them.  And Windows 10 comes out with a major upgrade every six months, which you must accept.  Some people have problems after an upgrade.
 
You might want to consider getting a tablet to play with Windows 10 if you are just getting it out of curiosity and not because of features or apps you consider important.
 
Gene

Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 1:43 PM
Subject: [nvda] New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess

Howdy list,
 
I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.
Thanks for your help and your attention.


 

Hmmm, if you are running 7 and have no need to update right now I suggest you don't.

But if you do, everything is an app,  skype is an app which may or may not work, there are a lot of extra things.

Win10 has come a long way since 7, its faster, its got ribbons and I can't find all the menus I want, as an admin I have found it generally responsive though.

On 7/17/2018 6:43 AM, Rob DeZonia wrote:
Howdy list,

I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.
Thanks for your help and your attention.



 

I must agree, for itself access wize win10 has come a long way, the ribbons well maybe thats it but the rest, I don't know, a lot is better now.

On 7/17/2018 9:06 AM, bob jutzi wrote:
I've been using Windows 10 since the release previews and like it.  I find it loads faster and love the new start screens.
The Start screen is organized by panes, Start Screen, All Apps, and Pinned Tyles, which you can tab to and use your up and down arrow to read with NVDA.

I may not have this 100% correct, but All Apps is the default when tapping the Windows key and works very similar to Windows 7's start menu including the search Box.

Pinned Tyles is where you'll find misc. icons such as the Live Weather tyle, and Start Screen is is where User Account, Settings, and Pictures are.

You can also do a Windows-I from anywhere to bring up Settings.

One nice Windows 10 bonus is the ability to completely reset Windows without a DVD.  I still have one in case in the rare event I want to do a reformat.  Also, I run Insider Previews and a long-needed feature for us blind folks introduced last year was the ability to do a CTRL-Windows-Enter from the boot DVD to load Narrator and have a fully talking installer.
Works very nice.


On 7/16/2018 4:34 PM, JM Casey wrote:
I use Windows 10 with both the most recent NVDA and a slightly older version of JAWS (v. 18) and for the most part I really like it. I find it quite customisable and while I had to do some tweaking, it generally behaves very nicely, except for a few unexpected updates and changes I made to the system being revoked during those updates.

I only used Windows 7 for a bit at my old work. I actually did make the change at home directly from Windows XP to Windows 10. It’s not really that daunting and you can use as little or as much of the OS functionality as you want. Personally I don’t bother with the so-called Universal apps. They just never seem as responsive or robust as normal desktop apps and generally they are designed with mobile users in mind, or so it seems.

I love the new file explorer. There’s so much you can do with it. Also, for people like me who still think the command line is the best and fastest way to get certain things done within the oS, there are a lot of neat tricks you can use. I’m not 100% sure what’s also available in Windows 7 since I did not spend a lot of time exploring 7 as, you know, I was supposed to be working, but in general I’m a lot more pleased with Windows 10 than I was with XP. It also comes with Windows PowerShell (although I think 7 does too?), which I’ve learned to use to do a few neat things, like generate lists of random files or make backups of my media from my drives.

It's for sure true that Windows 10 comes with a lot of “bells and whistles” which I know I will never, ever use. When I first got it I found it to be a little cluttered with nonsense. But after clearing most of that stuff away, I’m quite happy. I don’t know anyone who likes Windows 8 and the general consensus among both novice and experienced users is that it was somewhat a failure. Everyone I know stuck with Windows 7. Some migrated to Windows 10, but most chose not at all to install Windows 8. This goes for workplaces and home users. Now that Windows 10 is out and has been for quite a while, I would personally advise staying away from Windows 8, but it’s up to you. If anything though, Windows 10 brought back some of the functionality from 7 that was missing from 8, so you’ll honestly be happier just skipping it, in my opinion.

You’ll probably want to download and install the Windows 10 App essentials add-on for NVDA, if you make the upgrade.

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Rob DeZonia
*Sent:* July 16, 2018 2:44 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* [nvda] New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess

Howdy list,

I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.

Thanks for your help and your attention.




bob jutzi <jutzi1@...>
 

I've been using Windows 10 since the release previews and like it. I find it loads faster and love the new start screens.
The Start screen is organized by panes, Start Screen, All Apps, and Pinned Tyles, which you can tab to and use your up and down arrow to read with NVDA.

I may not have this 100% correct, but All Apps is the default when tapping the Windows key and works very similar to Windows 7's start menu including the search Box.

Pinned Tyles is where you'll find misc. icons such as the Live Weather tyle, and Start Screen is is where User Account, Settings, and Pictures are.

You can also do a Windows-I from anywhere to bring up Settings.

One nice Windows 10 bonus is the ability to completely reset Windows without a DVD. I still have one in case in the rare event I want to do a reformat. Also, I run Insider Previews and a long-needed feature for us blind folks introduced last year was the ability to do a CTRL-Windows-Enter from the boot DVD to load Narrator and have a fully talking installer.
Works very nice.

On 7/16/2018 4:34 PM, JM Casey wrote:
I use Windows 10 with both the most recent NVDA and a slightly older version of JAWS (v. 18) and for the most part I really like it. I find it quite customisable and while I had to do some tweaking, it generally behaves very nicely, except for a few unexpected updates and changes I made to the system being revoked during those updates.
I only used Windows 7 for a bit at my old work. I actually did make the change at home directly from Windows XP to Windows 10. It’s not really that daunting and you can use as little or as much of the OS functionality as you want. Personally I don’t bother with the so-called Universal apps. They just never seem as responsive or robust as normal desktop apps and generally they are designed with mobile users in mind, or so it seems.
I love the new file explorer. There’s so much you can do with it. Also, for people like me who still think the command line is the best and fastest way to get certain things done within the oS, there are a lot of neat tricks you can use. I’m not 100% sure what’s also available in Windows 7 since I did not spend a lot of time exploring 7 as, you know, I was supposed to be working, but in general I’m a lot more pleased with Windows 10 than I was with XP. It also comes with Windows PowerShell (although I think 7 does too?), which I’ve learned to use to do a few neat things, like generate lists of random files or make backups of my media from my drives.
It's for sure true that Windows 10 comes with a lot of “bells and whistles” which I know I will never, ever use. When I first got it I found it to be a little cluttered with nonsense. But after clearing most of that stuff away, I’m quite happy. I don’t know anyone who likes Windows 8 and the general consensus among both novice and experienced users is that it was somewhat a failure. Everyone I know stuck with Windows 7. Some migrated to Windows 10, but most chose not at all to install Windows 8. This goes for workplaces and home users. Now that Windows 10 is out and has been for quite a while, I would personally advise staying away from Windows 8, but it’s up to you. If anything though, Windows 10 brought back some of the functionality from 7 that was missing from 8, so you’ll honestly be happier just skipping it, in my opinion.
You’ll probably want to download and install the Windows 10 App essentials add-on for NVDA, if you make the upgrade.
*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Rob DeZonia
*Sent:* July 16, 2018 2:44 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* [nvda] New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess
Howdy list,
I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.
Thanks for your help and your attention.


JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

I use Windows 10 with both the most recent NVDA and a slightly older version of JAWS (v. 18) and for the most part I really like it. I find it quite customisable and while I had to do some tweaking, it generally behaves very nicely, except for a few unexpected updates and changes I made to the system being revoked during those updates.

 

I only used Windows 7 for a bit at my old work. I actually did make the change at home directly from Windows XP to Windows 10. It’s not really that daunting and you can use as little or as much of the OS functionality as you want. Personally I don’t bother with the so-called Universal apps. They just never seem as responsive or robust as normal desktop apps and generally they are designed with mobile users in mind, or so it seems.

 

I love the new file explorer. There’s so much you can do with it. Also, for people like me who still think the command line is the best and fastest way to get certain things done within the oS, there are a lot of neat tricks you can use. I’m not 100% sure what’s also available in Windows 7 since I did not spend a lot of time exploring 7 as, you know, I was supposed to be working, but in general I’m a lot more pleased with Windows 10 than I was with XP. It also comes with Windows PowerShell (although I think 7 does too?), which I’ve learned to use to do a few neat things, like generate lists of random files or make backups of my media from my drives.

 

It's for sure true that Windows 10 comes with a lot of “bells and whistles” which I know I will never, ever use. When I first got it I found it to be a little cluttered with nonsense. But after clearing most of that stuff away, I’m quite happy. I don’t know anyone who likes Windows 8 and the general consensus among both novice and experienced users is that it was somewhat a failure. Everyone I know stuck with Windows 7. Some migrated to Windows 10, but most chose not at all to install Windows 8. This goes for workplaces and home users. Now that Windows 10 is out and has been for quite a while, I would personally advise staying away from Windows 8, but it’s up to you. If anything though, Windows 10 brought back some of the functionality from 7 that was missing from 8, so you’ll honestly be happier just skipping it, in my opinion.

 

You’ll probably want to download and install the Windows 10 App essentials add-on for NVDA, if you make the upgrade.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rob DeZonia
Sent: July 16, 2018 2:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] New to list, newbie question, everything new starts here I guess

 

Howdy list,

 

I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.

Thanks for your help and your attention.


Rob DeZonia <robd1953@...>
 


Howdy list,
 
I am running Windows 7. Lately I'm starting to feel like the guy running XP when there's a better option available. I remember when Windows 10 first came out NVDA advised not upgrading yet. I realize that was many Windows 10 updates and a few NVDA releases ago. My question is, since you are all it seems experienced users, should I take the plunge finally? How steep is the learning curve on Windows 10, and is Edge workable with NVDA? Also I'm curious about apps since I've never tried Windows 8.1 either.
Thanks for your help and your attention.