Topics

possible eloquence solution


Josh Kennedy
 

It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up. So I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the same. I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.

Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease of access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc, you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and download it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s and has to change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Devin Prater
 

Microsoft would have to buy Nuance, not just CodeFactory. 
--


Damien Garwood <damien@...>
 

Hi Josh,
Eloquence? Open-sourced? Owned by Microsoft? You're joking aren't ya?
Seriously though. The sad and sorry fact is, Eloquence, like Keynote, is a very old synthesiser indeed. With that in mind, due to its age, and the possibility that they probably designed it for NASA spacecrafts (Well, the price tag would certainly suggest it), companies whose prices and DRM policies are stuck in the 1980's are highly unlikely to jump to the 21st century and say, "Well, nothing's happening, let's just open source it". They'd be more likely to say, "Over my dead body". All that hard work for nothing, eh?
As for Microsoft owning it? That's a double whammy.
Firstly, unfortunate though the game of life can sometimes be, we have no choice but to face facts. The majority of TTS voices are now leaning towards a more so-called "natural" feel. This includes Microsoft, who have attempted to make all their voices sound natural right from the SAPI4 days. Sapi5 and OneCore are no exception. Personally, I think it makes it sound choppy, and lag like trash. So then, the only other option will be ESpeak which, while portable, responsive and open-source, as far as usability goes, sounds to me like a trip back to hardware synths of the 1960's.
Secondly, since Microsoft do a good job of butchering everything that they so much as walk near...No. The idea of Microsoft owning something as quality as Eloquence makes me feel sick. Several potential pages of Microsoft-directed rant suppressed, with great difficulty.
Put it this way. If I were any good at self-learning new systems, I would've switched to Windows 10 long ago. As it is, I'm still on 7. And there was me thinking that was too big a change when I was forced to upgrade from XP!
Cheers,
Damien.

On 17/07/2018 01:10 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up. So I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the same. I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.
Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease of access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc, you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and download it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s and has to change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10


Steve Nutt
 

Why should they do this?  You’re effectively stopping Code Factory from making money.  Just buy Eloquence and be done with it.  Besides, Microsoft wouldn’t maintain it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: 17 July 2018 13:11
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] possible eloquence solution

 

It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up. So I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the same. I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.

Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease of access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc, you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and download it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s and has to change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

Good post. I agree with pretty much everything you've said.

Still holding out on purchasing Eloquence for NVDA for some reason. I recently switched back to Eloquence in my JAWS instalation, from the more "natural" voices, and my computer's performance has improved exponentially as a result. I'd almost forgotten how responsive and snappy this synth is. Unfortunately I'm still stuck with Core1 for NVDA for now. The eSpeak comment made me laugh because it seems so true. Not sure I'm one of those who can really get used to that. I was brought up with the Echo synthesizer for Apple in the 80s, which, unless you had it in "flat" mode, always sounded like it was singing, and eSpeak feels like a throwback to those days almost.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Damien Garwood
Sent: July 17, 2018 10:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] possible eloquence solution

Hi Josh,
Eloquence? Open-sourced? Owned by Microsoft? You're joking aren't ya?
Seriously though. The sad and sorry fact is, Eloquence, like Keynote, is a very old synthesiser indeed. With that in mind, due to its age, and the possibility that they probably designed it for NASA spacecrafts (Well, the price tag would certainly suggest it), companies whose prices and DRM policies are stuck in the 1980's are highly unlikely to jump to the 21st century and say, "Well, nothing's happening, let's just open source it". They'd be more likely to say, "Over my dead body". All that hard work for nothing, eh?
As for Microsoft owning it? That's a double whammy.
Firstly, unfortunate though the game of life can sometimes be, we have no choice but to face facts. The majority of TTS voices are now leaning towards a more so-called "natural" feel. This includes Microsoft, who have attempted to make all their voices sound natural right from the
SAPI4 days. Sapi5 and OneCore are no exception. Personally, I think it makes it sound choppy, and lag like trash. So then, the only other option will be ESpeak which, while portable, responsive and open-source, as far as usability goes, sounds to me like a trip back to hardware synths of the 1960's.
Secondly, since Microsoft do a good job of butchering everything that they so much as walk near...No. The idea of Microsoft owning something as quality as Eloquence makes me feel sick. Several potential pages of Microsoft-directed rant suppressed, with great difficulty.
Put it this way. If I were any good at self-learning new systems, I would've switched to Windows 10 long ago. As it is, I'm still on 7. And there was me thinking that was too big a change when I was forced to upgrade from XP!
Cheers,
Damien.

On 17/07/2018 01:10 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up. So
I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the same.
I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.

Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer
it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease of
access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for
windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps
working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory
licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice
portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if
Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc,
you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if
you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and download
it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s and has to
change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes I'm sure you know that several attempts were made by nv access to have a licence system that was not too onerous, but no. I do think myself, that its rubbish but acknowledge a lot find it good. it obviously is a personal thing.
I to do agree that modern voices are unintelligible at fast, even moderate speeds.

I as you know made the variant Quincy for UK English espeak and am happy with it in the main if they would stop mucking about with words that sounded right before. However I do also feel that the speech player in Espeak project was very good and I'd like to see somebody take this up again to make it better for the US market. One has to realise at the moment though that the biggest growth area for nvda is the Indian Subcontinent, and maybe other languages than English.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] possible eloquence solution


Why should they do this? You’re effectively stopping Code Factory from making money. Just buy Eloquence and be done with it. Besides, Microsoft wouldn’t maintain it.



All the best


Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: 17 July 2018 13:11
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] possible eloquence solution



It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up. So I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the same. I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.

Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease of access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc, you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and download it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s and has to change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10


Tyler Wood
 

I despise modern voices for doing anything but light reading. Espeak is decent, but in my view the best two synths for fast reading remain Eloquence and doubletalk. If I want to get correct spellings I'll use a more modern voice. ...but then you get random pauses for no reason, mis pronouncing random words like bourbon and expanding acronyms that I don't want.


I can't win.

On 18-Jul-2018 1:52 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Yes I'm sure you know that several attempts were made by nv access to have a licence system that was not too onerous, but no. I do think myself, that its rubbish but acknowledge a lot find it good. it obviously is a personal thing.
I to do  agree that modern voices are unintelligible at fast, even moderate speeds.

I as you know made the variant Quincy for UK English espeak and am happy with it in the main if they would stop mucking about with words that sounded right before. However I do also feel that the speech player in Espeak project was very good and I'd like to see somebody take this up again to make it better for the US market. One has to realise at the moment though that the biggest growth area for nvda is the Indian Subcontinent, and maybe other languages than English.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] possible eloquence solution


Why should they do this?  You’re effectively stopping Code Factory from making money.  Just buy Eloquence and be done with it. Besides, Microsoft wouldn’t maintain it.



All the best


Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: 17 July 2018 13:11
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] possible eloquence solution



It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up. So I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the same. I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.

Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease of access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc, you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and download it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s and has to change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10











 

My issue and my only issue with product activation licences in general is the fact that depending how they are constructed ie eloquence, that you have to deactivate it on each major update, thats fine in reality however because there is a 6 month basically new os update it gets a bit well annoying there should be a way to assign a licence to your machine or in the case of win10 an account or something.

And it doesn't have to be like that.

For example windows manages to stay activated on each system update.

Mostly.

Then again maybe its not happened to me.

I have had on my cloud system I admin to reactivate the icloud and some other accounts whenever I update my bios for example but still everything stays up.

I also have issues where machines and licences have a 3 unit limit, in a bit of software I use for dvd extraction, you assign your machine to an id from an account online, if that changes you have to reassign that machine to the single id but at least you can do it yourself as many times as you need.

On 7/18/2018 6:52 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Yes I'm sure you know that several attempts were made by nv access to have a licence system that was not too onerous, but no. I do think myself, that its rubbish but acknowledge a lot find it good. it obviously is a personal thing.
I to do  agree that modern voices are unintelligible at fast, even moderate speeds.

I as you know made the variant Quincy for UK English espeak and am happy with it in the main if they would stop mucking about with words that sounded right before. However I do also feel that the speech player in Espeak project was very good and I'd like to see somebody take this up again to make it better for the US market. One has to realise at the moment though that the biggest growth area for nvda is the Indian Subcontinent, and maybe other languages than English.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] possible eloquence solution


Why should they do this?  You’re effectively stopping Code Factory from making money.  Just buy Eloquence and be done with it. Besides, Microsoft wouldn’t maintain it.



All the best


Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: 17 July 2018 13:11
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] possible eloquence solution



It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up. So I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the same. I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.

Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease of access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc, you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and download it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s and has to change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10











.


 

Espeak is good enough, it reminds me of the keynote and its quite good.

Bar my phone eloquence never interested me, nuance actually tried to write a 16 bit eloquence, but I doubt bar improving the quality of the voices, so you hear a 8 bit synth digitally orgmented to a 16 bit one, which just sounds crappy because it is obvious that the convert doesn't sound right at all.

Dectalk is another, but to be honest, orpheus1 was my prefered synth, after that, espeak the first one.

Vocaliser and realspeak were my synths of choice and if I hadn't pulled that off a server a friend had ages ago I would never have any advanced tts, they are just to expensive for sapi.

At least the third party stuff is.

But the robotic crap while not good for reading its low resource and quite usefull for just about everything else.

The higher non crappy stuff is fine for reading but put it on a slower system, and its almost not even worth running it long term.

On 7/18/2018 7:09 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:
I despise modern voices for doing anything but light reading. Espeak is decent, but in my view the best two synths for fast reading remain Eloquence and doubletalk. If I want to get correct spellings I'll use a more modern voice. ...but then you get random pauses for no reason, mis pronouncing random words like bourbon and expanding acronyms that I don't want.


I can't win.



On 18-Jul-2018 1:52 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Yes I'm sure you know that several attempts were made by nv access to have a licence system that was not too onerous, but no. I do think myself, that its rubbish but acknowledge a lot find it good. it obviously is a personal thing.
I to do  agree that modern voices are unintelligible at fast, even moderate speeds.

I as you know made the variant Quincy for UK English espeak and am happy with it in the main if they would stop mucking about with words that sounded right before. However I do also feel that the speech player in Espeak project was very good and I'd like to see somebody take this up again to make it better for the US market. One has to realise at the moment though that the biggest growth area for nvda is the Indian Subcontinent, and maybe other languages than English.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] possible eloquence solution


Why should they do this?  You’re effectively stopping Code Factory from making money.  Just buy Eloquence and be done with it. Besides, Microsoft wouldn’t maintain it.



All the best


Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: 17 July 2018 13:11
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] possible eloquence solution



It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up. So I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the same. I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.

Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease of access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc, you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and download it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s and has to change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10














 

Espeak used to be good. but Espeak NG is trash to the extent that
they're messing up language pronounciations that worked better before
they edited them. Chinese being one such example of this even to a non
Chinese Speaker.
That synth is pure filth and speaks of low grade quality. This is why
Jaws succeeded due to Eloquence. Dectalk often sounds like someone's
talking with their lips close together. I'd actually say festival is a
better synth. I wish it was used more and developed.

On 7/18/18, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Espeak is good enough, it reminds me of the keynote and its quite good.

Bar my phone eloquence never interested me, nuance actually tried to
write a 16 bit eloquence, but I doubt bar improving the quality of the
voices, so you hear a 8 bit synth digitally orgmented to a 16 bit one,
which just sounds crappy because it is obvious that the convert doesn't
sound right at all.

Dectalk is another, but to be honest, orpheus1 was my prefered synth,
after that, espeak the first one.

Vocaliser and realspeak were my synths of choice and if I hadn't pulled
that off a server a friend had ages ago I would never have any advanced
tts, they are just to expensive for sapi.

At least the third party stuff is.

But the robotic crap while not good for reading its low resource and
quite usefull for just about everything else.

The higher non crappy stuff is fine for reading but put it on a slower
system, and its almost not even worth running it long term.




On 7/18/2018 7:09 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:
I despise modern voices for doing anything but light reading. Espeak
is decent, but in my view the best two synths for fast reading remain
Eloquence and doubletalk. If I want to get correct spellings I'll use
a more modern voice. ...but then you get random pauses for no reason,
mis pronouncing random words like bourbon and expanding acronyms that
I don't want.


I can't win.



On 18-Jul-2018 1:52 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Yes I'm sure you know that several attempts were made by nv access to
have a licence system that was not too onerous, but no. I do think
myself, that its rubbish but acknowledge a lot find it good. it
obviously is a personal thing.
I to do  agree that modern voices are unintelligible at fast, even
moderate speeds.

I as you know made the variant Quincy for UK English espeak and am
happy with it in the main if they would stop mucking about with words
that sounded right before. However I do also feel that the speech
player in Espeak project was very good and I'd like to see somebody
take this up again to make it better for the US market. One has to
realise at the moment though that the biggest growth area for nvda is
the Indian Subcontinent, and maybe other languages than English.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] possible eloquence solution


Why should they do this?  You’re effectively stopping Code Factory
from making money.  Just buy Eloquence and be done with it. Besides,
Microsoft wouldn’t maintain it.



All the best


Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Josh
Kennedy
Sent: 17 July 2018 13:11
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] possible eloquence solution



It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up.
So I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the
same. I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.

Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer
it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease
of access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for
windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps
working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory
licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice
portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if
Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc,
you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if
you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and
download it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s
and has to change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for
Windows 10


















Josh Kennedy
 

Oh my that would be excellent! I would just love it, if eloquence and my copy of jaws were tied into my microsoft account or my windows account! then I could update windows without fear of losing anything! The cost of sapi5 eloquence is not really bad. because $70 for 10 languages comes out to around $7 per language. Not bad. It's the stupid licensing system that has to catch up to the 21st century. that is the major issue i do not like about how eloquence and other nuance products are registered. I did purchase sapi5 eloquence. i just disagree with their activation methods. 


Sarah k Alawami
 

I actually have my 1 core voices at about maybe 80 percent and the nvda voice at 60. No one else can understand it but me. I do slow it down on my my streams though to be nice but the voices are fast and very understandable for lack of a better term.

On Jul 17, 2018, at 11:52 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:

Yes I'm sure you know that several attempts were made by nv access to have a licence system that was not too onerous, but no. I do think myself, that its rubbish but acknowledge a lot find it good. it obviously is a personal thing.
I to do  agree that modern voices are unintelligible at fast, even moderate speeds.

I as you know made the variant Quincy for UK English espeak and am happy with it in the main if they would stop mucking about with words that sounded right before. However I do also feel that the speech player in Espeak project was very good and I'd like to see somebody take this up again to make it better for the US market. One has to realise at the moment though that the biggest growth area for nvda is the Indian Subcontinent, and maybe other languages than English.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] possible eloquence solution


Why should they do this?  You’re effectively stopping Code Factory from making money.  Just buy Eloquence and be done with it.  Besides, Microsoft wouldn’t maintain it.



All the best


Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: 17 July 2018 13:11
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] possible eloquence solution



It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up. So I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the same. I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.

Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease of access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc, you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and download it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s and has to change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10












Sarah k Alawami
 

I also disagree with that system. Has anyoen contacted themand voiced their experiences and if so what was the response. I think it might have ben something nlike”we don’t care.” not surprising. I tried to sign up for the beta for elocrash on android and they said that they have internal testing and don’t want or need beta testers at this time.

On Jul 18, 2018, at 6:32 AM, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...> wrote:

Oh my that would be excellent! I would just love it, if eloquence and my copy of jaws were tied into my microsoft account or my windows account! then I could update windows without fear of losing anything! The cost of sapi5 eloquence is not really bad. because $70 for 10 languages comes out to around $7 per language. Not bad. It's the stupid licensing system that has to catch up to the 21st century. that is the major issue i do not like about how eloquence and other nuance products are registered. I did purchase sapi5 eloquence. i just disagree with their activation methods. 


Richard Wells
 

The other major issue for me with using Authorized Eloquence is accessing NVDA Portable. If Eloquence is the default synthesizer in the portable NVDA, it won't speak on an unlicensed machine. This also goes for Nuance high-quality voices.

On 7/18/2018 3:23 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
My issue and my only issue with product activation licences in general is the fact that depending how they are constructed ie eloquence, that you have to deactivate it on each major update, thats fine in reality however because there is a 6 month basically new os update it gets a bit well annoying there should be a way to assign a licence to your machine or in the case of win10 an account or something.

And it doesn't have to be like that.

For example windows manages to stay activated on each system update.

Mostly.

Then again maybe its not happened to me.

I have had on my cloud system I admin to reactivate the icloud and some other accounts whenever I update my bios for example but still everything stays up.

I also have issues where machines and licences have a 3 unit limit, in a bit of software I use for dvd extraction, you assign your machine to an id from an account online, if that changes you have to reassign that machine to the single id but at least you can do it yourself as many times as you need.




On 7/18/2018 6:52 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Yes I'm sure you know that several attempts were made by nv access to have a licence system that was not too onerous, but no. I do think myself, that its rubbish but acknowledge a lot find it good. it obviously is a personal thing.
I to do  agree that modern voices are unintelligible at fast, even moderate speeds.

I as you know made the variant Quincy for UK English espeak and am happy with it in the main if they would stop mucking about with words that sounded right before. However I do also feel that the speech player in Espeak project was very good and I'd like to see somebody take this up again to make it better for the US market. One has to realise at the moment though that the biggest growth area for nvda is the Indian Subcontinent, and maybe other languages than English.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] possible eloquence solution


Why should they do this?  You’re effectively stopping Code Factory from making money.  Just buy Eloquence and be done with it. Besides, Microsoft wouldn’t maintain it.



All the best


Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: 17 July 2018 13:11
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] possible eloquence solution



It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up. So I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the same. I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.

Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease of access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc, you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and download it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s and has to change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10












.


Rui Fontes
 

/Sorry, but /Vocalizer from NVDA allows you to create an activated copy on your portable NVDA...

Rui Fontes


Às 18:07 de 18/07/2018, Richard Wells escreveu:

The other major issue for me with using Authorized Eloquence is accessing NVDA Portable. If Eloquence is the default synthesizer in the portable NVDA, it won't speak on an unlicensed machine. This also goes for Nuance high-quality voices.
On 7/18/2018 3:23 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
My issue and my only issue with product activation licences in general is the fact that depending how they are constructed ie eloquence, that you have to deactivate it on each major update, thats fine in reality however because there is a 6 month basically new os update it gets a bit well annoying there should be a way to assign a licence to your machine or in the case of win10 an account or something.

And it doesn't have to be like that.

For example windows manages to stay activated on each system update.

Mostly.

Then again maybe its not happened to me.

I have had on my cloud system I admin to reactivate the icloud and some other accounts whenever I update my bios for example but still everything stays up.

I also have issues where machines and licences have a 3 unit limit, in a bit of software I use for dvd extraction, you assign your machine to an id from an account online, if that changes you have to reassign that machine to the single id but at least you can do it yourself as many times as you need.




On 7/18/2018 6:52 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Yes I'm sure you know that several attempts were made by nv access to have a licence system that was not too onerous, but no. I do think myself, that its rubbish but acknowledge a lot find it good. it obviously is a personal thing.
I to do  agree that modern voices are unintelligible at fast, even moderate speeds.

I as you know made the variant Quincy for UK English espeak and am happy with it in the main if they would stop mucking about with words that sounded right before. However I do also feel that the speech player in Espeak project was very good and I'd like to see somebody take this up again to make it better for the US market. One has to realise at the moment though that the biggest growth area for nvda is the Indian Subcontinent, and maybe other languages than English.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] possible eloquence solution


Why should they do this?  You’re effectively stopping Code Factory from making money.  Just buy Eloquence and be done with it. Besides, Microsoft wouldn’t maintain it.



All the best


Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: 17 July 2018 13:11
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] possible eloquence solution



It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up. So I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the same. I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.

Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease of access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc, you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and download it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s and has to change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10












.



 

Hmmm well for us/uk language it appears espeak ng has gotten better unless that is I have just gotten used to it, yes, they have screwed up a few things but nothing more has been screwed up.

Espeak pre ng was better in some ways but oh well.

On 7/19/2018 12:51 AM, Elshara Silverheart wrote:
Espeak used to be good. but Espeak NG is trash to the extent that
they're messing up language pronounciations that worked better before
they edited them. Chinese being one such example of this even to a non
Chinese Speaker.
That synth is pure filth and speaks of low grade quality. This is why
Jaws succeeded due to Eloquence. Dectalk often sounds like someone's
talking with their lips close together. I'd actually say festival is a
better synth. I wish it was used more and developed.

On 7/18/18, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Espeak is good enough, it reminds me of the keynote and its quite good.

Bar my phone eloquence never interested me, nuance actually tried to
write a 16 bit eloquence, but I doubt bar improving the quality of the
voices, so you hear a 8 bit synth digitally orgmented to a 16 bit one,
which just sounds crappy because it is obvious that the convert doesn't
sound right at all.

Dectalk is another, but to be honest, orpheus1 was my prefered synth,
after that, espeak the first one.

Vocaliser and realspeak were my synths of choice and if I hadn't pulled
that off a server a friend had ages ago I would never have any advanced
tts, they are just to expensive for sapi.

At least the third party stuff is.

But the robotic crap while not good for reading its low resource and
quite usefull for just about everything else.

The higher non crappy stuff is fine for reading but put it on a slower
system, and its almost not even worth running it long term.




On 7/18/2018 7:09 PM, Tyler Wood wrote:
I despise modern voices for doing anything but light reading. Espeak
is decent, but in my view the best two synths for fast reading remain
Eloquence and doubletalk. If I want to get correct spellings I'll use
a more modern voice. ...but then you get random pauses for no reason,
mis pronouncing random words like bourbon and expanding acronyms that
I don't want.


I can't win.



On 18-Jul-2018 1:52 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Yes I'm sure you know that several attempts were made by nv access to
have a licence system that was not too onerous, but no. I do think
myself, that its rubbish but acknowledge a lot find it good. it
obviously is a personal thing.
I to do  agree that modern voices are unintelligible at fast, even
moderate speeds.

I as you know made the variant Quincy for UK English espeak and am
happy with it in the main if they would stop mucking about with words
that sounded right before. However I do also feel that the speech
player in Espeak project was very good and I'd like to see somebody
take this up again to make it better for the US market. One has to
realise at the moment though that the biggest growth area for nvda is
the Indian Subcontinent, and maybe other languages than English.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] possible eloquence solution


Why should they do this?  You’re effectively stopping Code Factory
from making money.  Just buy Eloquence and be done with it. Besides,
Microsoft wouldn’t maintain it.



All the best


Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Josh
Kennedy
Sent: 17 July 2018 13:11
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] possible eloquence solution



It seems like unless this problem is solved it will keep coming up.
So I just went into feedback hub and I recommend all of you do the
same. I wrote the following feedback to Microsoft.

Please purchase all rites to CodeFactory Nuance Eloquence TTS. Offer
it as a free downloadable sapi5 and OneCore voice addons under ease
of access in windows10. And on the Microsoft website as sapi5 for
windows7 users. Also please maintain the android version so it keeps
working and perhaps lower the price to $2 or $3. Nuance CodeFactory
licenses are too restrictive. Adding Eloquence to microsoft’s voice
portfolio would benefit those with hearing impairments. So if
Microsoft owned it, whenever you buy a copy of windows or a new pc,
you also pay for the rite to use eloquence on any pc you buy.and if
you don’t want it, you just do not go into ease of access and
download it. Nuance copyright is stuck back in the 80s and early 90s
and has to change. If not, this issue will probably keep cropping up.





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for
Windows 10
















 

I agree.

Windows servicing model doesn't handle old licences that well.

On 7/19/2018 1:32 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
Oh my that would be excellent! I would just love it, if eloquence and my copy of jaws were tied into my microsoft account or my windows account! then I could update windows without fear of losing anything! The cost of sapi5 eloquence is not really bad. because $70 for 10 languages comes out to around $7 per language. Not bad. It's the stupid licensing system that has to catch up to the 21st century. that is the major issue i do not like about how eloquence and other nuance products are registered. I did purchase sapi5 eloquence. i just disagree with their activation methods.



Rob Hudson
 

Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hmmm well for us/uk language it appears espeak ng has gotten better
unless that is I have just gotten used to it, yes, they have screwed up
a few things but nothing more has been screwed up.

Maybe what it says has gotten better, but the tonal quality and overall synth is still the same. I do not hear any difference in sound quality between ng and pre ng. It still sounds like a tin can.


 

Well

For me to even attempt to go legal with this for the price I am going to have to pay for even vocaliser sapi, that system holds me back from buying.

Same with eloquence, there is a perfectly alegal version I can use.

The legal one has that system and that doesn't settle with me, which is a shame, its not worth the cash if I forget to deactivate and have to either buy more licences or something just to get it fixed, in fact its not worth buying any code factory software if its all like this.

On 7/19/2018 4:10 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I also disagree with that system. Has anyoen contacted themand voiced their experiences and if so what was the response. I think it might have ben something nlike”we don’t care.” not surprising. I tried to sign up for the beta for elocrash on android and they said that they have internal testing and don’t want or need beta testers at this time.

On Jul 18, 2018, at 6:32 AM, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh my that would be excellent! I would just love it, if eloquence and my copy of jaws were tied into my microsoft account or my windows account! then I could update windows without fear of losing anything! The cost of sapi5 eloquence is not really bad. because $70 for 10 languages comes out to around $7 per language. Not bad. It's the stupid licensing system that has to catch up to the 21st century. that is the major issue i do not like about how eloquence and other nuance products are registered. I did purchase sapi5 eloquence. i just disagree with their activation methods.


 

I guess I have only had a certain synth type for ages.

I started with the keynote gold for most of my life, briefly went to eloquence, still use it on my phone and with jaws at university and school and orpheus, but as an admin of a large home and remote network, espeak may sound crappy in parts but its clear enough for me to use for email, and other things I am not reading a book.

Now don't get me wrong but remember what I said about good synths vs crappy espeak and other crappy synths and system resources.

Try to run a good synth on a core2 duo and you kinda find out the hard way even this i3 third gen I wouldn't run one of those high quality ones all the time.

Now run your espak crappyness on a single core on xp with 128mb of ram and you realise that unless you have the cash or something going full power is not always best as well as responce delays.

Yes I agree, high quality voices are good for reading, good for gaming, but not day to day tasks, where you need responce and no delays from your system.

Then again the only synth I ever used was vocaliser, everything else is just to expensive to even bother with, including acapella infovox.

Acapella nvda, or maybe even vocaliser/eloquence may be in my price range but thats it.

One core may be my next best solution to all this, there was a period where Iwent through everything from cracked to legal and legal if you want to buy a lot at once ie all english voices for x synth can be expensive.

Now if I had an actual job, spending 200-600 bucks every year on speech synths could probably be not a problem but I don't, and while I must admit I do spend a bit to much on digital music and some programs, I rarely spend anything over 50 bucks a month sometimes if I get crazy 100 but I shouldn't, I don't have the cash really and I am a sucker for bargains.

Sadly inoetics never played ball with eurofly and with the death of inoetics personal, I wasted 84 dollars on a synth which I could have used.

Dectalk though some of it is rendered crappy volume wize is the only other synth I could even order and thats the honest to god truth, I am not bullshitting anyone here.

TTs costs a lot, clarity and stuff, no artifacts, if all we are bitching over is how stuff is pronounced, well, vocaliser and some others have this to.

I don't get any artifacts and its all internal, and officiant and its why I still like and use espeak.

On 7/19/2018 6:57 AM, Rob Hudson wrote:
Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hmmm well for us/uk language it appears espeak ng has gotten better
unless that is I have just gotten used to it, yes, they have screwed up
a few things but nothing more has been screwed up.
Maybe what it says has gotten better, but the tonal quality and overall synth is still the same. I do not hear any difference in sound quality between ng and pre ng. It still sounds like a tin can.