Topics

Decorum on this list, NVDA Vs. JAWS Debate #adminnotice

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello everyone,

I took the time to read all over 50 messages that were sent on the NVDA and JAWS debate. Here are some thoughts, and please forgive me for coming down a bit hard on this, but if you read this all the way through, you may understand why. Please also understand that what I am about to write is not my personal opinion necessarily, but it is my role as an admin of this list to make the points I am about to make.

1. This list is for the discussion of NVDA and, specifically, to help out one another in our learning and knowledge of NVDA. This group exists because its members want it to do so, although I feel that it should be tied up into the Windows 10 group, but there you have it. This group does not exist to bash others, to disparage companies, or to flame and attack others for their preferences. While a limited amount of comparison may be valid when attempting to request a new feature or trying to understand how NVDA does things as compared to another screen reader, what I saw today in the thread was nothing short of a disgrace coming from list members.
2. It doesn't matter what Eric or anyone else from Freedom Scientific did or did not say about NVDA, we the NVDA community can choose how to respond, and I urge all of us to respond in a way that does not have us looking clownish to the outside world, and to new members. This community is public, and it is archived. Let it be a learning and teaching tool, not a platform for bashing.
3. Your personal opinions of what is better or not better are irrelevant on this list, as are mine. You have chosen to participate on an NVDA list. Contribute to this list in a way you see fit, but do not attack other people, companies, products, or anything else just because your opinion is that NVDA is the best. No product is the best for everyone, no product is perfect, and no product, person, or entity should be attacked in the way that VFO has been in this group.
4. If a list member posts a controversial thread, you do not have to respond. If you want to respond, at least take the time to research your position by listening to the podcast that was presented, and then state facts about what was said, without drawing conclusions about what you think was implied.

This community can be welcoming, inviting, and safe for everyone. It can be an example of how all people can get along. It can be an example of how we choose not to flame companies or individuals, as so often happens on blindness and non-blindness e-mail lists and forums. We can also be considerate of those around the world who have limited bandwidth by not sending dozens of messages to the list about a topic that really should not exist on this list in the first place.

Finally, I have seen some rumblings about eloquence on this list over the past few days. That word used to be banned on this list, however I was talked into removing that ban. Still, Eloquence is illegal unless it is purchased through legal channels. There is, for instance, a version of Eloquence which is sold by the ATGuys and sold and packaged by CodeFactory. This can be discussed if there are bugs with it, or if we are pointing a new user to that legal channel, however I do not wish to read about any discussion of illegal add-ons, or free Eloquence on this list. Any user knowingly posting about illegal software will receive a ban from posting until I become satisfied that they will no longer post about such things in future. If you believe a user has been posting about eloquence, or if you see a message that goes against what this community stands for, please bring it to the attention of the admin and moderator of this list, and we will action it.

If you disagree with my message, or if you have a problem with anything I have said, please send me an e-mail privately, or to nvda+owners@nvda.groups.io and I will take the time to speak with you about your concerns. Please do not post your comments to the list at large. Also, please end the thread about the comparison between NVDA and JAWS. If the thread has not died down by 12:00 AM Eastern time this evening, I will lock the thread.

Thank you for being a part of this wonderful NVDA family, and here's hoping we can move forward together in making this place all that it can be for one another, and for all the visitors, new members, companies, agencies, and anyone else who may be reading the traffic



--
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber, NVDA List Owner

Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
some information about the email you have just read and all
attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (218)
(693-9271) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Note i tried to send this to the list owner with the link on this email but it bounced, so
Here is what I wrote.
...
You will note I merely posted a comment about a podcast and only one other
message more or less saying that whatever you felt it was your own opinion
and I was not going to turn it into a long wandering my xx is better than
yours. We got into one of those about syynths a while ago, and nobody ever
seems to learn the lesson that personal views are no going to be shared by
others.

Anyway, I pushed off from the thread and to be honest I have this little
rule called junk which I update from time to time that throws threads that
have outlived their purpose into my junk folder!
I was rather interested in what you mean about being part of windows 10 or
something though. If we consider recent figures of windows usage published
it seems that windows 7 still has 47 percent of the market, mainly due to
corporate use and there are many here who use it.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nimer Jaber" <nimerjaber1@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 10:22 PM
Subject: [nvda] Decorum on this list, NVDA Vs. JAWS Debate #adminnotice


Hello everyone,

I took the time to read all over 50 messages that were sent on the NVDA and
JAWS debate. Here are some thoughts, and please forgive me for coming down
a bit hard on this, but if you read this all the way through, you may
understand why. Please also understand that what I am about to write is not
my personal opinion necessarily, but it is my role as an admin of this list
to make the points I am about to make.

1. This list is for the discussion of NVDA and, specifically, to help out
one another in our learning and knowledge of NVDA. This group exists
because its members want it to do so, although I feel that it should be
tied up into the Windows 10 group, but there you have it. This group does
not exist to bash others, to disparage companies, or to flame and attack
others for their preferences. While a limited amount of comparison may be
valid when attempting to request a new feature or trying to understand how
NVDA does things as compared to another screen reader, what I saw today in
the thread was nothing short of a disgrace coming from list members.
2. It doesn't matter what Eric or anyone else from Freedom Scientific did
or did not say about NVDA, we the NVDA community can choose how to respond,
and I urge all of us to respond in a way that does not have us looking
clownish to the outside world, and to new members. This community is
public, and it is archived. Let it be a learning and teaching tool, not a
platform for bashing.
3. Your personal opinions of what is better or not better are irrelevant on
this list, as are mine. You have chosen to participate on an NVDA list.
Contribute to this list in a way you see fit, but do not attack other
people, companies, products, or anything else just because your opinion is
that NVDA is the best. No product is the best for everyone, no product is
perfect, and no product, person, or entity should be attacked in the way
that VFO has been in this group.
4. If a list member posts a controversial thread, you do not have to
respond. If you want to respond, at least take the time to research your
position by listening to the podcast that was presented, and then state
facts about what was said, without drawing conclusions about what you think
was implied.

This community can be welcoming, inviting, and safe for everyone. It can be
an example of how all people can get along. It can be an example of how we
choose not to flame companies or individuals, as so often happens on
blindness and non-blindness e-mail lists and forums. We can also be
considerate of those around the world who have limited bandwidth by not
sending dozens of messages to the list about a topic that really should not
exist on this list in the first place.

Finally, I have seen some rumblings about eloquence on this list over the
past few days. That word used to be banned on this list, however I was
talked into removing that ban. Still, Eloquence is illegal unless it is
purchased through legal channels. There is, for instance, a version of
Eloquence which is sold by the ATGuys and sold and packaged by CodeFactory.
This can be discussed if there are bugs with it, or if we are pointing a
new user to that legal channel, however I do not wish to read about any
discussion of illegal add-ons, or free Eloquence on this list. Any user
knowingly posting about illegal software will receive a ban from posting
until I become satisfied that they will no longer post about such things in
future. If you believe a user has been posting about eloquence, or if you
see a message that goes against what this community stands for, please
bring it to the attention of the admin and moderator of this list, and we
will action it.

If you disagree with my message, or if you have a problem with anything I
have said, please send me an e-mail privately, or to
nvda+owners@nvda.groups.io and I will take the time to speak with you about
your concerns. Please do not post your comments to the list at large. Also,
please end the thread about the comparison between NVDA and JAWS. If the
thread has not died down by 12:00 AM Eastern time this evening, I will lock
the thread.

Thank you for being a part of this wonderful NVDA family, and here's hoping
we can move forward together in making this place all that it can be for
one another, and for all the visitors, new members, companies, agencies,
and anyone else who may be reading the traffic



--
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber, NVDA List Owner

Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
some information about the email you have just read and all
attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (218)
(693-9271) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!