Accessible voice and text chat


Bill Dengler
 

Hello,
This might not be the right list for this sort of thing, but I figured it’d be worth a shot.
With Skype’s accessibility degrading on Windows and virtually disappearing on the Mac after recent updates, I’m looking for alternatives.
I’m looking for a service (or collection of services used together) for realtime voice and text chat. The services must have accessible, native (i.e. not a web view) apps on Windows, Mac, iOS and Android. I am willing to consider an app with a web view if accessibility is excellent. Incoming text chat messages must be automatically read aloud for JAWS users. The following features are nice to have, in rough order of most to least important, but are not required:
1. Automatic reading of incoming text chat messages for NVDA, VoiceOver users.
2. End-to-end encryption.
3. Use of the Opus codec (or something similar) allowing for high, yet stable audio quality depending on network conditions.
4. Conference/group chat support.
5. Based on open standards (or has a public API), so if the app breaks we can find/write another.

A few options I thought of:
faceTime/iMessage: doesn’t work for Windows/Android/non-Apple users.
Whatsapp/Signal/Slack: desktop apps are web based
Discord: desktop app is web based, reports of inaccessibility on mobile
Telegram: accessibility on mobile is hit and miss
Google Duo/Alo: no desktop apps at all
Running my own XMPP/SIP server: no XMPP clients that I know of autoread for JAWS, I am responsible for running my own servers (not in itself a bad thing but makes it harder to communicate with those not connected to my server), difficult to use for nontechnical users.
Twiter direct messages: will not be realtime after streaming API is shut down, no solution for voice chat.

Any ideas on other services I can investigate?

Thanks in advance,
Bill


 

http://bearware.dk


Oriol Gómez <ogomez.s92@...>
 

Accessibility disappearing on the mac? Wtf you on about lol
Skype on the Mac as it stands right now, the Skype web app, works
better on the Mac than it does on Windows...
I dunno where you guys get your information.

On 7/22/18, dingpengyu <dingpengyu06@gmail.com> wrote:
http://bearware.dk




Mark <mark@...>
 

Hi Bill have you heard of the accessible friends network

www.tafn.org.uk

we use TeamTalk its very easy to use

for our members to communicate and have lots of  quiz’s

Mark.

 

Tune in to the number one station on the web TAFN radio
http://tafn.org.uk/listen
Or for our catch up service on demand http://www.tafn.org.uk/on-demand
or for our upcoming weekly schedule
http://www.tafn.org.uk/radio
part of the accessible friends network
www.tafn.org.uk
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.
Sent from Windows 10 Mail.

 

From: Bill Dengler
Sent: 22 July 2018 04:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

 

Hello,

This might not be the right list for this sort of thing, but I figured it’d be worth a shot.

With Skype’s accessibility degrading on Windows and virtually disappearing on the Mac after recent updates, I’m looking for alternatives.

I’m looking for a service (or collection of services used together) for realtime voice and text chat. The services must have accessible, native (i.e. not a web view) apps on Windows, Mac, iOS and Android. I am willing to consider an app with a web view if accessibility is excellent. Incoming text chat messages must be automatically read aloud for JAWS users. The following features are nice to have, in rough order of most to least important, but are not required:

1. Automatic reading of incoming text chat messages for NVDA, VoiceOver users.

2. End-to-end encryption.

3. Use of the Opus codec (or something similar) allowing for high, yet stable audio quality depending on network conditions.

4. Conference/group chat support.

5. Based on open standards (or has a public API), so if the app breaks we can find/write another.

 

A few options I thought of:

faceTime/iMessage: doesn’t work for Windows/Android/non-Apple users.

Whatsapp/Signal/Slack: desktop apps are web based

Discord: desktop app is web based, reports of inaccessibility on mobile

Telegram: accessibility on mobile is hit and miss

Google Duo/Alo: no desktop apps at all

Running my own XMPP/SIP server: no XMPP clients that I know of autoread for JAWS, I am responsible for running my own servers (not in itself a bad thing but makes it harder to communicate with those not connected to my server), difficult to use for nontechnical users.

Twiter direct messages: will not be realtime after streaming API is shut down, no solution for voice chat.

 

Any ideas on other services I can investigate?

 

Thanks in advance,

Bill

 

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Sadly I use skype for this. I use zoom for my business meetings but those won’t help you . I would just stick to skype. It works and
microsoft have improved it over all..

Take care and sorry to be the bringer of bad news.

On 21 Jul 2018, at 20:18, Bill Dengler wrote:

Hello, This might not be the right list for this sort of thing, but I figured it’d be worth a shot. With Skype’s accessibility degrading on Windows and virtually disappearing on the Mac after recent updates, I’m looking for alternatives. I’m looking for a service (or collection of services used together) for realtime voice and text chat. The services must have accessible, native (i.e. not a web view) apps on Windows, Mac, iOS and Android. I am willing to consider an app with a web view if accessibility is excellent. Incoming text chat messages must be automatically read aloud for JAWS users. The following features are nice to have, in rough order of most to least important, but are not required: 1. Automatic reading of incoming text chat messages for NVDA, VoiceOver users. 2. End-to-end encryption. 3. Use of the Opus codec (or something similar) allowing for high, yet stable audio quality depending on network conditions. 4. Conference/group chat support. 5. Based on open standards (or has a public API), so if the app breaks we can find/write another.

A few options I thought of: faceTime/iMessage: doesn’t work for Windows/Android/non-Apple users. Whatsapp/Signal/Slack: desktop apps are web based Discord: desktop app is web based, reports of inaccessibility on mobile Telegram: accessibility on mobile is hit and miss Google Duo/Alo: no desktop apps at all Running my own XMPP/SIP server: no XMPP clients that I know of autoread for JAWS, I am responsible for running my own servers (not in itself a bad thing but makes it harder to communicate with those not connected to my server), difficult to use for nontechnical users. Twiter direct messages: will not be realtime after streaming API is shut down, no solution for voice chat.

Any ideas on other services I can investigate?

Thanks in advance, Bill


Felix G.
 

Hi!
With the exception of some intermediary stages, Skype's accessibility doesn't seem to be degrading, just changing. Even on iOS they're putting a lot of care into it, making it more Voiceover-friendly than some of Apple's own apps I could name. For now I'm sticking with it and can only recommend others do the same and provide feedback to Microsoft if something goes wrong.
Best,
Felix

Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> schrieb am Mo., 23. Juli 2018 um 05:32 Uhr:

Sadly I use skype for this. I use zoom for my business meetings but
those won’t help  you . I would  just stick to skype. It works and 
microsoft have improved it over all..

Take care and sorry to be the bringer of bad news.

On 21 Jul 2018, at 20:18, Bill Dengler wrote:

> Hello,
> This might not be the right list for this sort of thing, but I figured
> it’d be worth a shot.
> With Skype’s accessibility degrading on Windows and virtually
> disappearing on the Mac after recent updates, I’m looking for
> alternatives.
> I’m looking for a service (or collection of services used together)
> for realtime voice and text chat. The services must have accessible,
> native (i.e. not a web view) apps on Windows, Mac, iOS and Android. I
> am willing to consider an app with a web view if accessibility is
> excellent. Incoming text chat messages must be automatically read
> aloud for JAWS users. The following features are nice to have, in
> rough order of most to least important, but are not required:
> 1. Automatic reading of incoming text chat messages for NVDA,
> VoiceOver users.
> 2. End-to-end encryption.
> 3. Use of the Opus codec (or something similar) allowing for high, yet
> stable audio quality depending on network conditions.
> 4. Conference/group chat support.
> 5. Based on open standards (or has a public API), so if the app breaks
> we can find/write another.
>
> A few options I thought of:
> faceTime/iMessage: doesn’t work for Windows/Android/non-Apple users.
> Whatsapp/Signal/Slack: desktop apps are web based
> Discord: desktop app is web based, reports of inaccessibility on
> mobile
> Telegram: accessibility on mobile is hit and miss
> Google Duo/Alo: no desktop apps at all
> Running my own XMPP/SIP server: no XMPP clients that I know of
> autoread for JAWS, I am responsible for running my own servers (not in
> itself a bad thing but makes it harder to communicate with those not
> connected to my server), difficult to use for nontechnical users.
> Twiter direct messages: will not be realtime after streaming API is
> shut down, no solution for voice chat.
>
> Any ideas on other services I can investigate?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Bill
>




Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Its just that many distrust microsoft, and indeed the old Skype team as it has seemed for years now that its one step forward and two back on accessibility with this particular software, and people are losing patience with it I suspect.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat


Hi!
With the exception of some intermediary stages, Skype's accessibility
doesn't seem to be degrading, just changing. Even on iOS they're putting a
lot of care into it, making it more Voiceover-friendly than some of Apple's
own apps I could name. For now I'm sticking with it and can only recommend
others do the same and provide feedback to Microsoft if something goes
wrong.
Best,
Felix

Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> schrieb am Mo., 23. Juli 2018 um
05:32 Uhr:

Sadly I use skype for this. I use zoom for my business meetings but
those won’t help you . I would just stick to skype. It works and
microsoft have improved it over all..

Take care and sorry to be the bringer of bad news.

On 21 Jul 2018, at 20:18, Bill Dengler wrote:

Hello,
This might not be the right list for this sort of thing, but I figured
it’d be worth a shot.
With Skype’s accessibility degrading on Windows and virtually
disappearing on the Mac after recent updates, I’m looking for
alternatives.
I’m looking for a service (or collection of services used together)
for realtime voice and text chat. The services must have accessible,
native (i.e. not a web view) apps on Windows, Mac, iOS and Android. I
am willing to consider an app with a web view if accessibility is
excellent. Incoming text chat messages must be automatically read
aloud for JAWS users. The following features are nice to have, in
rough order of most to least important, but are not required:
1. Automatic reading of incoming text chat messages for NVDA,
VoiceOver users.
2. End-to-end encryption.
3. Use of the Opus codec (or something similar) allowing for high, yet
stable audio quality depending on network conditions.
4. Conference/group chat support.
5. Based on open standards (or has a public API), so if the app breaks
we can find/write another.

A few options I thought of:
faceTime/iMessage: doesn’t work for Windows/Android/non-Apple users.
Whatsapp/Signal/Slack: desktop apps are web based
Discord: desktop app is web based, reports of inaccessibility on
mobile
Telegram: accessibility on mobile is hit and miss
Google Duo/Alo: no desktop apps at all
Running my own XMPP/SIP server: no XMPP clients that I know of
autoread for JAWS, I am responsible for running my own servers (not in
itself a bad thing but makes it harder to communicate with those not
connected to my server), difficult to use for nontechnical users.
Twiter direct messages: will not be realtime after streaming API is
shut down, no solution for voice chat.

Any ideas on other services I can investigate?

Thanks in advance,
Bill



 

To be honest skype could have been one of my big ifs in life, a needed tool but its not right now.

When I need it I will use it.

Or rather I will use what it has become but only when necessary.

I will instruct all contacts for my jobs to either call me or I will call them at my expense if I must.

Everything else will be done via email.

Eventually maybe sooner than later my plan will to switch to whats app on a smart device, maybe I run skype again maybe I don't.

The issue some of us have with microsoft as a whole they do something completely marvelous then screw it up so bad that its not worth it at all.

So dos, good, windows 3x ok.

win 95-98-2k-xp good but xpsp1 sucked and win98se driver support was bad.

Vista was crap as was win me.

Windows 7 is good.

win 8x all versions was bad.

win10 is fine could be better but still.

Skype follows much the same.

skype 1x good.

skype 2x good.

3x bad 4x ok 5x ok 6x better

7x up to the latest, while some add boxes and the like fine.

8 preview shockingly crap!!!

8 and uwp, probably good but who's trusting may as well be crap.

The same is with narator.

Even if it was the only screen reader it would still be and always would be completely crap in my eyes so to speak because of the disaster in xp!

Narator is crap and not a real screen reader.

Its crap and always will be crap.

I don't trust everything microsoft do because of experiences I have had before and other users will feel the same.

I know they are changing, but they have done enough bad things that other users including me sometimes feel a little fritened maybe threatened, skype classic was one of the best voip solutions out there for a while, suddenly its being turned up side down.

The logic for it is sound but the rest is well unknown.

On 7/23/2018 9:50 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Its just that many distrust microsoft, and indeed the old Skype team as it has seemed for years now that its one step forward and two back on accessibility with this particular software, and people are losing patience with it I suspect.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat


Hi!
With the exception of some intermediary stages, Skype's accessibility
doesn't seem to be degrading, just changing. Even on iOS they're putting a
lot of care into it, making it more Voiceover-friendly than some of Apple's
own apps I could name. For now I'm sticking with it and can only recommend
others do the same and provide feedback to Microsoft if something goes
wrong.
Best,
Felix

Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> schrieb am Mo., 23. Juli 2018 um
05:32 Uhr:

Sadly I use skype for this. I use zoom for my business meetings but
those won’t help  you . I would  just stick to skype. It works and
microsoft have improved it over all..

Take care and sorry to be the bringer of bad news.

On 21 Jul 2018, at 20:18, Bill Dengler wrote:

Hello,
This might not be the right list for this sort of thing, but I figured
it’d be worth a shot.
With Skype’s accessibility degrading on Windows and virtually
disappearing on the Mac after recent updates, I’m looking for
alternatives.
I’m looking for a service (or collection of services used together)
for realtime voice and text chat. The services must have accessible,
native (i.e. not a web view) apps on Windows, Mac, iOS and Android. I
am willing to consider an app with a web view if accessibility is
excellent. Incoming text chat messages must be automatically read
aloud for JAWS users. The following features are nice to have, in
rough order of most to least important, but are not required:
1. Automatic reading of incoming text chat messages for NVDA,
VoiceOver users.
2. End-to-end encryption.
3. Use of the Opus codec (or something similar) allowing for high, yet
stable audio quality depending on network conditions.
4. Conference/group chat support.
5. Based on open standards (or has a public API), so if the app breaks
we can find/write another.

A few options I thought of:
faceTime/iMessage: doesn’t work for Windows/Android/non-Apple users.
Whatsapp/Signal/Slack: desktop apps are web based
Discord: desktop app is web based, reports of inaccessibility on
mobile
Telegram: accessibility on mobile is hit and miss
Google Duo/Alo: no desktop apps at all
Running my own XMPP/SIP server: no XMPP clients that I know of
autoread for JAWS, I am responsible for running my own servers (not in
itself a bad thing but makes it harder to communicate with those not
connected to my server), difficult to use for nontechnical users.
Twiter direct messages: will not be realtime after streaming API is
shut down, no solution for voice chat.

Any ideas on other services I can investigate?

Thanks in advance,
Bill








Sarah k Alawami
 

I have to agree. They know they fudged up. I was talking personally with one of the accessibility heads over twitter and she knew since about maybe November and told me to wait. It has gotten a lot better in my humble opinion. I really am loving it.

On 22 Jul 2018, at 23:13, Felix G. wrote:

Hi!
With the exception of some intermediary stages, Skype's accessibility doesn't seem to be degrading, just changing. Even on iOS they're putting a lot of care into it, making it more Voiceover-friendly than some of Apple's own apps I could name. For now I'm sticking with it and can only recommend others do the same and provide feedback to Microsoft if something goes wrong.
Best,
Felix

Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> schrieb am Mo., 23. Juli 2018 um 05:32 Uhr:
Sadly I use skype for this. I use zoom for my business meetings but
those won’t help  you . I would  just stick to skype. It works and 
microsoft have improved it over all..

Take care and sorry to be the bringer of bad news.

On 21 Jul 2018, at 20:18, Bill Dengler wrote:

> Hello,
> This might not be the right list for this sort of thing, but I figured
> it’d be worth a shot.
> With Skype’s accessibility degrading on Windows and virtually
> disappearing on the Mac after recent updates, I’m looking for
> alternatives.
> I’m looking for a service (or collection of services used together)
> for realtime voice and text chat. The services must have accessible,
> native (i.e. not a web view) apps on Windows, Mac, iOS and Android. I
> am willing to consider an app with a web view if accessibility is
> excellent. Incoming text chat messages must be automatically read
> aloud for JAWS users. The following features are nice to have, in
> rough order of most to least important, but are not required:
> 1. Automatic reading of incoming text chat messages for NVDA,
> VoiceOver users.
> 2. End-to-end encryption.
> 3. Use of the Opus codec (or something similar) allowing for high, yet
> stable audio quality depending on network conditions.
> 4. Conference/group chat support.
> 5. Based on open standards (or has a public API), so if the app breaks
> we can find/write another.
>
> A few options I thought of:
> faceTime/iMessage: doesn’t work for Windows/Android/non-Apple users.
> Whatsapp/Signal/Slack: desktop apps are web based
> Discord: desktop app is web based, reports of inaccessibility on
> mobile
> Telegram: accessibility on mobile is hit and miss
> Google Duo/Alo: no desktop apps at all
> Running my own XMPP/SIP server: no XMPP clients that I know of
> autoread for JAWS, I am responsible for running my own servers (not in
> itself a bad thing but makes it harder to communicate with those not
> connected to my server), difficult to use for nontechnical users.
> Twiter direct messages: will not be realtime after streaming API is
> shut down, no solution for voice chat.
>
> Any ideas on other services I can investigate?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Bill
>




Sarah k Alawami
 

I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going to be a good thing and talk about html was in happening even since about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we have to thank microslop for it. They made skype what it is today, a ver good tool for my jobs and more.

Blessings and happy Monday Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website: http://www.tffppodcast.com For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go to http://www.tffppodcast.com/premium and for hosting options go to http://www.tffppodcast.com/hosting to subscribe to the feed click here: http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp And for the listen page go here:  http://www.tffppodcast.com/listen

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here: http://www.tffppodcast.com/pod-pledge For an android list in the making where android apps, accessibility, phones and development can be discussed  subscribe send a blank email to androiddiscuss+subscribe@android-discuss.groups.io and follow the prompts. to visit the subgroups  and subscribe (note you must be subscribed to the main group as well) visit the following URL: about-android.tffppodcast.com

To subscribe to the skype english list go to skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com and send a blank email to the subscribe address listed there.

On 23 Jul 2018, at 2:50, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

Its just that many distrust microsoft, and indeed the old Skype team as it has seemed for years now that its one step forward and two back on accessibility with this particular software, and people are losing patience with it I suspect.


 

Degrading is not the word, different interface different use I guess.

On 7/24/2018 4:10 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I have to agree.  They  know they  fudged up. I was talking personally with one of the accessibility heads over twitter and she knew since about maybe November and told me to wait. It has gotten a lot better in my humble opinion. I really am loving it.

On 22 Jul 2018, at 23:13, Felix G. wrote:

Hi!
With the exception of some intermediary stages, Skype's accessibility
doesn't seem to be degrading, just changing. Even on iOS they're putting a
lot of care into it, making it more Voiceover-friendly than some of Apple's
own apps I could name. For now I'm sticking with it and can only recommend
others do the same and provide feedback to Microsoft if something goes
wrong.
Best,
Felix

Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> schrieb am Mo., 23. Juli 2018 um
05:32 Uhr:

Sadly I use skype for this. I use zoom for my business meetings but
those won’t help  you . I would  just stick to skype. It works and
microsoft have improved it over all..

Take care and sorry to be the bringer of bad news.

On 21 Jul 2018, at 20:18, Bill Dengler wrote:

Hello,
This might not be the right list for this sort of thing, but I figured
it’d be worth a shot.
With Skype’s accessibility degrading on Windows and virtually
disappearing on the Mac after recent updates, I’m looking for
alternatives.
I’m looking for a service (or collection of services used together)
for realtime voice and text chat. The services must have accessible,
native (i.e. not a web view) apps on Windows, Mac, iOS and Android. I
am willing to consider an app with a web view if accessibility is
excellent. Incoming text chat messages must be automatically read
aloud for JAWS users. The following features are nice to have, in
rough order of most to least important, but are not required:
1. Automatic reading of incoming text chat messages for NVDA,
VoiceOver users.
2. End-to-end encryption.
3. Use of the Opus codec (or something similar) allowing for high, yet
stable audio quality depending on network conditions.
4. Conference/group chat support.
5. Based on open standards (or has a public API), so if the app breaks
we can find/write another.

A few options I thought of:
faceTime/iMessage: doesn’t work for Windows/Android/non-Apple users.
Whatsapp/Signal/Slack: desktop apps are web based
Discord: desktop app is web based, reports of inaccessibility on
mobile
Telegram: accessibility on mobile is hit and miss
Google Duo/Alo: no desktop apps at all
Running my own XMPP/SIP server: no XMPP clients that I know of
autoread for JAWS, I am responsible for running my own servers (not in
itself a bad thing but makes it harder to communicate with those not
connected to my server), difficult to use for nontechnical users.
Twiter direct messages: will not be realtime after streaming API is
shut down, no solution for voice chat.

Any ideas on other services I can investigate?

Thanks in advance,
Bill






 

I havn't lost trust in ms as such, its just I won't take them at their word anymore.

I expect for example when I start up windows on my systems that windows may choose to not start because it chooses to mangle my profile or just not start meaning I will have to reformat to make everything better.

I have come to terms that when I run anything it may or may not work but usually does.

I have come to terms with changes on the fly which may or may not be something I like and in that reguard try to bypass them if I can or use whatever it is if I need.

To say I enjoy some of it is I don't know.

I used to enjoy windows, now its just another program I have to watch to see if it works, once its working I get on to my tasks then I am done.

On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a ver  good tool for my jobs and more.

Blessings and happy Monday
Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website: http://www.tffppodcast.com
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go to http://www.tffppodcast.com/premium
and for hosting options go to http://www.tffppodcast.com/hosting
to subscribe to the feed click here:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp
And for the listen page go here:
http://www.tffppodcast.com/listen

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here:
http://www.tffppodcast.com/pod-pledge
For an android list in the making where android apps, accessibility, phones and development can be discussed  subscribe send a blank email to
androiddiscuss+subscribe@android-discuss.groups.io
and follow the prompts.
to visit the subgroups  and subscribe (note you must be subscribed to the main group as well) visit the following URL:
about-android.tffppodcast.com

To subscribe to the skype english list go to skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com and send a blank email to the subscribe address listed there.

On 23 Jul 2018, at 2:50, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

Its just that many distrust microsoft, and indeed the old Skype team as it has seemed for years now that its one step forward and two back on accessibility with this particular software, and people are losing patience with it I suspect.


Antony Stone
 

For me "trust" does mean "taking someone at their word", and if I feel I can't
take them at their word, then I don't trust them.

I don't really see any other definition of "trust".

Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 20:40:17, Shaun Everiss wrote:

I havn't lost trust in ms as such, its just I won't take them at their
word anymore.

I expect for example when I start up windows on my systems that windows
may choose to not start because it chooses to mangle my profile or just
not start meaning I will have to reformat to make everything better.

I have come to terms that when I run anything it may or may not work but
usually does.

I have come to terms with changes on the fly which may or may not be
something I like and in that reguard try to bypass them if I can or use
whatever it is if I need.

To say I enjoy some of it is I don't know.

I used to enjoy windows, now its just another program I have to watch to
see if it works, once its working I get on to my tasks then I am done.
--
The Magic Words are Squeamish Ossifrage.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Tyler Wood
 

I have yet to have many of the problems that plagued me in windows 7 through windows 8.1.


The frustration at having windows not start was beyond infuriating. Windows 10 has fixed that for me, among tons of others.


Skype 8 really isn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be. It's a change that has been sorely needed in 2018 and it's no different than the panic from upgrading from windows xp to 7, and now to 10. 8 and 8.1 were a cobbled together mess that reminds me in great detail of Windows Millennium. People are just afraid of change. Tons of sighted people ran away from skype when it retained its classic look and moved over to discord and the like. Now skype is trying to follow this trend a few years late.


Think skype is bad? Try using facebook, where changes seemingly come daily and absolutely 0 of them for the better of accessibility, especially on Mobile.


Skype, for me, is still the clear winner of cross platform, simple, least internet used voice communication and until other companies step up to the plate for these things I'm sticking with it. And by step up to the plate, I mean mainstream that sighted and blind alike use.

On 23-Jul-2018 2:24 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
For me "trust" does mean "taking someone at their word", and if I feel I can't
take them at their word, then I don't trust them.

I don't really see any other definition of "trust".

Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 20:40:17, Shaun Everiss wrote:

I havn't lost trust in ms as such, its just I won't take them at their
word anymore.

I expect for example when I start up windows on my systems that windows
may choose to not start because it chooses to mangle my profile or just
not start meaning I will have to reformat to make everything better.

I have come to terms that when I run anything it may or may not work but
usually does.

I have come to terms with changes on the fly which may or may not be
something I like and in that reguard try to bypass them if I can or use
whatever it is if I need.

To say I enjoy some of it is I don't know.

I used to enjoy windows, now its just another program I have to watch to
see if it works, once its working I get on to my tasks then I am done.


Gene
 

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many other companies. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
> to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
> about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
> have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
> ver  good tool for my jobs and more.
>
> Blessings and happy Monday
> Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com
> For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go to
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/premium
> and for hosting options go to http://www.tffppodcast.com/hosting
> to subscribe to the feed click here:
> http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp
> And for the listen page go here:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/listen
>
> Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/pod-pledge
> For an android list in the making where android apps, accessibility,
> phones and development can be discussed  subscribe send a blank email to
> androiddiscuss+subscribe@android-discuss.groups.io
> and follow the prompts.
> to visit the subgroups  and subscribe (note you must be subscribed to
> the main group as well) visit the following URL:
> about-android.tffppodcast.com
>
> To subscribe to the skype english list go to
> skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com and send a blank email to the subscribe
> address listed there.
>
> On 23 Jul 2018, at 2:50, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>
>> Its just that many distrust microsoft, and indeed the old Skype team
>> as it has seemed for years now that its one step forward and two back
>> on accessibility with this particular software, and people are losing
>> patience with it I suspect.
>
>
>
>




Antony Stone
 

Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member. I really object
to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
other companies.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
to be a good thing and talk about html was in happening even since
about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
have to thank microslop for it. They made skype what it is today, a
ver good tool for my jobs and more.
--
There's a good theatrical performance about puns on in the West End. It's a
play on words.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Sarah k Alawami
 

Although they are getting better, they still have a long way to go Apple are much much better at accessibility especially with their own softwares then mocrosoft, at least for now. Mocrosoft have a lot of catching up, and they know it.

I still say to the original poster, use skype, it is getting better, and it has a long way to go, but get used to it, or switch to zoom, which I would not use just for chatting purposes. It’s way too over powered for that.

On 23 Jul 2018, at 13:29, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many other companies. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
> to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
> about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
> have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
> ver  good tool for my jobs and more.
>
> Blessings and happy Monday
> Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com
> For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go to
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/premium
> and for hosting options go to http://www.tffppodcast.com/hosting
> to subscribe to the feed click here:
> http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp
> And for the listen page go here:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/listen
>
> Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here:
> http://www.tffppodcast.com/pod-pledge
> For an android list in the making where android apps, accessibility,
> phones and development can be discussed  subscribe send a blank email to
> androiddiscuss+subscribe@android-discuss.groups.io
> and follow the prompts.
> to visit the subgroups  and subscribe (note you must be subscribed to
> the main group as well) visit the following URL:
> about-android.tffppodcast.com
>
> To subscribe to the skype english list go to
> skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com and send a blank email to the subscribe
> address listed there.
>
> On 23 Jul 2018, at 2:50, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>
>> Its just that many distrust microsoft, and indeed the old Skype team
>> as it has seemed for years now that its one step forward and two back
>> on accessibility with this particular software, and people are losing
>> patience with it I suspect.
>
>
>
>




Lino Morales
 

Well hey like I said on another list. This is the new MS. Under Satia Nedella I think they are doing an awesome job. I can’t stress enough here and the other lists I’m on to use that good ole Feedback Hub. Yes kids MS does read your feedback.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Antony Stone <antony.stone@...>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:40:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
 
Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

> I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object
> to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
> it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
> other companies.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> > I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
> > to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
> > about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
> > have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
> > ver good tool for my jobs and more.

--
There's a good theatrical performance about puns on in the West End.  It's a
play on words.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.




Sarah k Alawami
 

If you are on windows 7 you cannot use the feedback hub. I’ve seen some of the feedback some people leave. I actually vote it down as for me it is of no value, and some are trolls. I was a part of the insider program for a while and I saw a lot of feedback of people complaining just to complain.. But yeah take a look at some of the feedback that’s there and you will see what I mean. Some of it is, um, interesting and I dunno why it is not just removed.

On 23 Jul 2018, at 13:42, Lino Morales wrote:

Well hey like I said on another list. This is the new MS. Under Satia Nedella I think they are doing an awesome job. I can’t stress enough here and the other lists I’m on to use that good ole Feedback Hub. Yes kids MS does read your feedback.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Antony Stone <antony.stone@...>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:40:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat
 
Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

> I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member.  I really object
> to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
> it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
> other companies.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
> > I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
> > to be a good thing and  talk about html was in happening  even since
> > about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
> > have to thank microslop for  it. They  made skype what it is today, a
> > ver good tool for my jobs and more.

--
There's a good theatrical performance about puns on in the West End.  It's a
play on words.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.




Tyler Wood
 

A few years ago I might have agreed with you on microsoft playing catch up.


These days, as you say, Microsoft is everywhere. Seeing AI is simply a revolutionary tool on the smartphone and is not made by apple. Similarly, narrator is quickly becoming a replacement for your every day screen reader. Keep in mind that the NFB went at apple pretty hard back in the day, too, so it isn't as though their bringing more accessibility into the market was voluntary. Microsoft has pretty decent accessibility on the Xbox, as well, a far cry from Sony who, even though they released so called accessibility first, are still missing crutial tts in areas like the system settings 4 years later. Playing catch up, indeed.

I'm curious where you think microsoft is lacking in accessibility these days? Considering we have quite a few folks with disabilities working for microsoft as well as apple, I think they're on a pretty level playing field.

On 23-Jul-2018 3:40 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare them with, that
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop) computing
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done in terms
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but once they
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and Microsoft have
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment (rather like
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people had found
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick, they'd be left
behind in the networked world).


Antony.

On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member. I really object
to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially object to
it when the company has a much better record on accessibility than many
other companies.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time going
to be a good thing and talk about html was in happening even since
about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and we
have to thank microslop for it. They made skype what it is today, a
ver good tool for my jobs and more.